« Commentary Magazine Podcast

Philip Larkin and the End of the Afghan War

2021-08-31 | 🔗
Today's podcast is about consequences: Who deserves to be held responsible for the debacle in Afghanistan and why. Give a listen.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Welcome to the Commentary magazine Daily, podcast, today's third Tuesday August thirty, first, twenty twenty I'm John onwards, the editor of Commentary Magazine and I'm going to begin this podcast by reading homage to a government by Philip Larkin next year. We to bring all the soldiers home for lack of money, and it is all right places they guarded- were kept. Orderly must are themselves and keep themselves orderly. We want the money for ourselves at home instead of working- and this is all right, it's hard
say who wanted it to happen by now. It's been decided nobody minds, the places are a long way off, not here, which is all right and from what we hear this. soldiers, there only made trouble happen next year. We he'll be easier in our minds next year, We shall be living in a country that brought it soldiers home for lack of money. The staff This will be standing in the same tree, muffled squares. nearly the same, children will not know it's a different country all week hope to leave them. Now. Is money. Homage to a government by Philip Larkin written in nineteen. Sixty nine with me today, as always executive editor, a green waldheim, hijab scene. Rather Christine rose and high. Christine hygiene. an associate editor nor Rossman High Noah, I jump in
Parallel that I don't think anybody seems to have noted the fact that the last american Terry officer left Afghanistan yesterday yesterday was, of course, the thirtieth of August and, of course, day that we, the helicopter, pulled off the roof. The embassy in Saigon was the thirtieth of April Oh, even though Joe Biden did not get his twentieth anniversary celebrations. Of nine eleven by pulling out of the planet gas them? He has. In some kind of a month. Lee celebration by somehow pulling off on the same. What you know end date not specific month day in day out of the same day of the month, as we did from Saigon
Don't even really know where we're where to begin or or what to say. That's why I started with a fillip Larkin Palm, which of course, is really about imperialism, but refers acts. The idea of what it might mean for a cunt free to ah no Longer consider the value of its example and its presence elsewhere in the world and the notion that what it really needs to do is you now focus logistically on in on itself. Well, and can I just say that a juxtaposition in that poem of the these staff isn T muffled squares, he's he's harking back to a time when actually honour meant erecting statues to the people who
who shepherded and kept safe a nation and its honour, and then that's why I think he ends By saying we, we're going to leave our kids money so we'll leave them some money, because here we are all focusing on what we need and honestly that's pivot, exactly two it to practical politics today, but that is base. the strategy and argument that the binding ministration will now make it may in the coming weeks. Let's focus ourselves its focus on our domestic agenda. Let's hope, Americans forget the dishonor one of the genius things about the poem that he in a sense he doesn't exactly savage anyone who wants the soldiers to come home. You know he says
You know it's hard to say, wanted it to happen, and you know we we we we we we want, we everyone sort, it just is ok with it. Yet he's clearly devastating about what it means. I think that that is exactly meriting what we see today, it's hard to say who wanted it to happen. that sort of feels very much like reading twitter today, where. Everyone now either pretends they wanted it to happen, because there supporting Biden, no matter what or they Sort of didn't want it to happen, but it should have happened this way. There's this. The blame spreading.
We will have a lot of time to talk about how how twenty years led to this, not just what we witness these past few weeks, Right now is that it is, it is now a result of the actions and policies pursued by the people who didn't want this to happen. That is responsible for according to the people, could I want this to happen, which was about superannuated gets from which I think you need to specify you're talking about that. each of the pull out in the castle, which Afghanistan has been left, not the.
The entirety of the night, the entirety of the policy and those who want to take a detached chin, stroking thirty thousand foot perspective on our national humiliation and disgrace, which is by all accounts, ongoing. The notion here that the mission in Afghanistan is over is fatuous and unsupported, even by those who are presiding over it. The mission is not over not at least of Joe Biden meant as at a bit of what he said last week when he talked about going after ISIS in executing missions against ISIS. If we are to see to our responsibilities to interdict to disrupt, to deter terrorist attacks in the EP pack region, then the mission is not over. If we
to see to the american civilians. We now admit we left behind to say nothing of the legal, permanent residents and visa holders and visa eligible applicants in the tens of thousands who we say we are still seeing to wear so deeply concerned for than the mission is not over, and if it pretty manifest in anything other than ransoms, then it will manifest in rates so that a special forces rates which, by the way the United Kingdom has basically committed to executing the mission, is not over. It is ongoing. These people are taking refuge very comforting refuge in the idea that this this is all behind us now and, like the poem you know, we can Yes, you can focus on more quickly in affairs, at home, nonsense, nonsense and but, but also just the and the repeated referred, It's all right in the palm makes me think of while this was always gonna be messy, but it's the right thing, it's alright. Alright, it's not it's. Ok, it's a great! It's all right
while this was to be expected member. That was them as this was to be expected. This is to be expected, and honestly, the american people now need to ask themselves about Biden, domestic agenda. Why would you believe a word? This administration says it made promises that it has not kept over and over again to America to say nothing of allies. It's me. one point? I believe that this is a point that Jonah Gilbert made on Twitter. Why would you believe the number that they put on how many Americans are left behind his point is why would you not qualify the number not believe it? Why did you not qualify as this is what the Administrative says, what about again set run? Have no independent information to verify that that sort of journalistic S practice has gone out the window. Well, I also want to quote in terms of the utter incoherence which thing is just sort of them. Improvisation story, you know it's it's it's kind of man, brothers,
check out saying whenever he has to say to the next sentence, which is that genius of the check on marks yeah Provocations that add, Only Blinkem, yes, with Secretary of State, said that the departure from Afghanistan was the beginning of caught a new chapter of America's engagement with Afghanistan, it's one in which we will lead with our diplomacy that sounds nice right? Thirty seconds later. He said we don't have any diplomats in Afghanistan. We ve everybody out of Afghanistan. oh, how are we leaving with our diplomacy even something online John we're leading from behind we're, leaving we're leaving from over the horizon, apparently cause that's an hour, our favorite new phrase. Right, don't worry! We can take of this with our over the horizon capability
over the horizon capability. So, according to basically people who serve understand, these calculations we have lost something like ninety percent of our capability in terms of intelligence, knowing where things are knowing where people are knowing who the plough areas are in all of that fight through through the polite, just as we ve lost this standing amount of material and talk about something else, though, I know that we can trust, we have Cobby the Pentagon Someone saying do worry all of that american military material that we left behind doesn't work. It's broken, Indeed millions arose. Guess it gets Britain be that's right! So don't worry about it and then as as tray Yanks. The whose foxes corresponded puts it,
anti seven humvee were demilitarized before american forces left Kabul, according to General Mackenzie Twin, two thousand one hundred and seventy four humvee were given to afghan security forces over the course of the war. Those It was our now under the control of the Taliban. So let's not be foolish about. This means we have not only left and left people behind, but we You have left materiel behind that will make it easier for the Taliban to do things like. Oh, I dunno crush ice, Kay and kill p. Bull at will and make sure that others don't come back to? due to them what the Taliban, but we did so the Taliban that night, just that to your point about our lack of intelligence, and this did that ridiculous, vacuous statement that we're gonna leave with our diplomacy. There's a perfectly
ample about this week. We, tempted to use. You know unmanned drones to take out a nice. Is Kay I guess and ended up slaughtering a bunch of civilians, including children, at the very same time the Bin Itunes, former security chief rolled in it like a caravan of DR escalates into a region in Afghanistan and their people, were posting all about on such meeting. Why are we taken that guy out what we know about that, like he clearly was, was making a triumphant return You land that he'd been driven from years ago. The gather the Taliban wasn't supposed to be able to use any of this equipment. Rightward witnessing multiple videos of Taliban fighters flying black HAWK helicopters, one very infamous one in which there appears to be a figure dangling from beneath it.
Several feet up hanging than a revenge, killing we're gonna get many more of these videos. The best case scenario from the perspective of this White House now has to be that, inter terrorist politics are going to result in a bloodbath in Kabul which will keep everybody busy in cattle in the surrounding provinces, that that would consigning the Afghans to a brutal civil war will somehow absolve us of our responsibilities to interdicted disrupt terrorist events, but the amount of Americans that are stranded. There is going to preclude this. The Taliban had in a man
can hostage in their custody that they were ran swimming while we were depending on them for our security. That's only one american hostage and he made headlines all over the place who is the president was asked about Pentagon was asked about him with something that was something at tied our hands as policymakers in Washington, and now there are hundreds of potential applicants for this sort of thing. To the extent we know anything about what we are experiencing now, it is that they are hiding in whole, says that they are moving at night from house to house to evade detection. They are menaced profoundly in the notion that we won't hear anything about. Their ordeal seems to me fanciful, even if it is even if it is the desire very sorted, partisan desire on the press to let this new cycle paths They weren't able to do that during the evacuation and they're not gonna, be able to do it now when the story gets much much worse. I want all the time
You guys, I'm sure she read this, but if you haven't the story of March Metz, whose son Jared was one of the thirteen killed the terrorist bombing in Kabul last week, and he had a meeting with Biden at Dover AIR Force Base as the as the body. Were being returned to the union, it states he's a trump voter. He did not vote for binding and According to my adviser story in the Washington Post, had told the military arm so that before then, he wasn't much interested in speaking to a president. He did not vote for one whose execution of the Afghan pull out he'd, disdains and one they'll blames for the death of a twenty year old Son Jared, but overnight had changed his mind. So on that dreary morning he and his ex wife were approached by Biden after you talk to all the other families by his
can't Schmidt's glared hearted, the president, so Biden spent more time looking at his Ex wife repeatedly. Invoking his own son bow, who died six years ago. Schmidt's did not want to hear about bow. He wanted to talk about Jared. Eventually the parents took out a photo to showed abiden. I said: don't you ever forget that name? Don't you ever forget at face. Don't you ever forget the names of the other twelve Schmidt said and take some time to learn their stories. Biden not seem to like that Schmidt's recalled, and he bristled, offering a blunt response, I do know their stories. I am struck by this because It goes again to the idea that the pull out from Afghanistan is a
mark and a sign of Biden, great humanity or his great. understanding of the sacrifices of military families, or things like that. Now. You cannot blame Biden for an ISIS K. Terror bomb. That's not right here do it once every american soldier. Marine servicemen to remain alive and thrive and live. wonderful life he what he did was engineer this pull out, one of them consequences of which was this terrorist bombing, which emerged from the chaos and com all the scenes outside the airport and the. Opportunity that was presented, not to the Taliban two! Others too,
Millie eight, the United States to terrorize United States and to do all of that. That is something for which he is responsible. Just this one. Just as there are people who are going to give him credit for making the two, decisions to pull out to make making the tough choice- and you know fixing the generals down and facing the neo comes down and facing down twenty years of a consensus that was foolish and all of that, if he is to your credit for that he needs to stand, there were, mark, Schmidt's looked at him and says I want you to know their stories and say I will never forget Jared Schmidt's. That is not what he said. He said Gulf will increase and the other that's what he said. I'm sorry to use that language. But if this exchange happened as marksmen set, it happened. He looked at a grieving father.
And told him to go, but there's it's worse because there's the world's hours there there's more detail that actually makes this even more terror. behaviour on the our president, because other folks who were there said that he can recently brought up his sons, death and I'm sick and tired of Joe Biden trying to steal the valor of general gold, star families in or to gain sympathy for himself and his administration when he should be taking, as you say, John Responsibility for his policies. this. Is it led to the deaths of active service military His sons, death is an obvious tragedy. I am not trying to take away from that, but he should stop equating his son service, with the death in active duty of these soldiers, is offensive and several other family members mentioned that there's a we don't want to hear about your sons, cancer, debt. We are talking about active duty, military who were killed in the line of service defending our nations interests than he is
behaving appropriately towards those families. Another thing on this point I have now seen I think three different clips Biden, indifferent settings describing grief as a black hole, sucking at the centre of your chest. It's it's fine. I believe him, when you use that when you go to the same sort of line again and again- and it becomes disc and description of grief at a moment of real active grief for other people, it's really cheap and, and it ended it it it rings for halo. I mean problem with it not to go totally off on this. Tangent is everybody- has a tragedy in their family. Everybody on earth has a tragedy in their family, a relative who died,
two young? You know under tragic circumstances. You know untimely ripped from the earth and and it's one of the things that really does give us humanity and should give us a sense of action to the grief and loss of others, and all that, but- and it is an abiding story. Is a terror, story not because he lost one child, but because he lost too, he lost the baby in a car crash on a wife and a car crash and and he lost his son to camp forty years after that and that the terrible terrible thing, but it is the totality of binds loss that makes him unique, not having lost a son to cancer, the age of forty six. I mean I wish that were the case, but that was so unique lead project that you know he is. He could prevent present
face of survival and then the ability- move on that is You know unique and therefore be no incredibly inspiring to people, but that's not right. It's! It's not! That's! Not, as I said that, if it's his total life experience, And- and he does use it, he has used didn't switches and seven it was very affecting at it is affecting that he was able to make up for himself after his after his first wife was, was killed, the car crash, along with their daughter and then he suffered the second blow and all that. But but it's not a story of war and its now a story of sacrifice actually is not about sacrifice then everybody who loses a family member is somehow somebody who deserves to be considered a hero because of theirs. Provides an. I just, don't think. That's that's right that that that
fines, heroism and sacrifice down. It removes what is special extraordinary, uniquely tragic and soul and sole inspiring about the losses of people who are doing things to help others and to serve their country. Did you notice and a lot of the very moving stories about that some of the soldiers who lost their lives at the bombing, sallow, their friends and family, said you know what they were doing. exactly what they wanted to do? They were exactly where they wanted to be. They had a notion of service that took them across the world to protect people. They had never met because they are Marines because they are soldiers and that I think the part where, where there The juxtaposition of of these people who truly defined the best of America because they serve in that way and risk their lives for others. Compared to the very worst of America, which is this kind of obnoxious foreign policy proposals that that
I didn't just pig headed we push forward, despite not listen, to advise and not listening to others. That's it the thing that I think drives these families. Absolutely bizarre, as is, is having this person, not only not just be there and be the figure had that he should be at that moment and bring comfort to them, but the still make it about himself in his policies that stubbornness that that absolute inability that not empathy and that's why I get an arguments. People all the time, just unconsciously thing, I'm not sure, Joe by MRS Empathetic, as you think they are There are moments where, as in a professional capacity as president, he has a duty to bring a certain service and he is collecting that duty and he did it, Airfreight Airbus in Dover, and it can be done by people who have not suffered loss. You now being a great eulogist or delivering the kind of speech or talk or whatever the country needs to hear in the wake of tragedy, doesn't In fact require a total personal experience of that tragedy.
It requires a capacious sympathetic imagination, that all of us are supposed to have and that that's one of the purposes of a liberal education or something like that. You know what it's that it's that that's the it's not all. I know what you're going to cause I've been through it myself, that's the easiest. I mean it's not easy. I add that that Norway, to put it, but it's the, you know. That is not what you have if you had to be bad them Reagan delivering the pitch perfect remarks, you now upon the explosion of the challenger or or remarks on the Euro, the FAO, its anniversary of the invasion of D day? What do you know about any of that? You never been on this challenge. Hurt you know he didn't. He didn't eat he wasn't in Omaha Beach. He wasn't upon the walk. You know admit that doesn't matter and it somehow a kind of sums
the Tunisian for that. That Biden keeps defaulting too as a way of avoiding- and I think, if you guys say like Sorry, I'm going up in your place. This is very interminable me, but I'm in a very internal mood this morning so give way to it. Is this not a bad actors way of playing to the scene, because he doesn't feel emotion for Afghanistan? He does not feel sadness philosopher
faster, he's happy about this- he's wanted this for a decade and a half years wanted this and he finally got it. We have no indication that there was any lack of resolve when everything started, going real bad. Seven hundred troops didn't cut it. We had to perform outrageous ridiculous, failed contingencies. We have no indication that there was any change of heart here, because his heart isn't in it. This is what he wanted so in order to channel the kind of empathy this is brand. He has to go back to a moment that invokes that kind of emotion. For what I mean. That reminds me in some ways, and it just quickly able reminds me of a bomb. I asked you're Benghazi, if you think about it, because it it seemed to me, the men at the Benghazi happened Obama who was then locked him, what appeared to be a serb dead, even race, with with Mitt Romney had won the election of of twenty twelve, because the thing for him to say is they struck our depot,
as we will not have this, we will hunt to the ends of the earth day we'll be sorry they took on the United States. And it was like a gimme in Romney would have to say I the president's at exactly the right thing and then he would have been totally kind of sidle silence for a week, Obama would have established himself as the leader and instead Obama didn't want to do that because it shows in the plot line to emphasise. As in the twenty twelve campaign, which is that he had ended, he had won the war on terror. They have won the war on terror, not that it was ongoing and he I've had to interrupt that narrative for this. Situational change and language learning. You have to wonder why didn't he do that? Well, maybe it's because he didn't want to asked the war on terror. He didn't want to strike back against the
people who had done this in Benghazi because he wanted to focus on something else and that's exactly like Biden now, although of course Biden really wants the credit for being a war friend or but again so did Clinton rugs Obama arrived. He wanted to say I kill Bin Laden. Now, let's move on, I am sorry to interrupt Well, I was just going to be as uncharitable as Noah was in thinking about it. Lol just saying Joe Biden has turned his personal grief into a tick. It started on the campaign trail and it has extended ad nauseam to cover his debacle in Afghanistan, He does. There was a time when it when he first mentioned his sons death last week in response to the d them arrangements
killed. I had I sat on the pack has, I think he might have been linking his sons, brain cancer to his service and he was listener. Semi tweed of their transcript and buttoned said something like when he came back from Iraq. Like so many who had come back from Iraq, he he's heads Let us come to a fatal brain cancer. Now I dont know if Biden believes that there is a link, his son, having served and and getting brain cancer, or, if he's, trying to establish this bridge. That puts him that you know plausibly in his mind in the camp of those parents who had who have lost
there there their kids in service, if it's the latter, if, if he's, if he's should have you know trying to paint himself implausibly in that in that role, I think that's quite disgusting. Well I mean I I look at you. genuinely believe that I write and where is genuine, Longeth Odin, all science that suggests that there is this Yo Causal link, then that's it different story of anything recently commodities. What president yeah yeah he's right delegated to someone and veterans affairs to actively pursue that link. That's not what he's doing he's he's talking about them. And we know what he's talking about the recent. His empathy seem. If you'll, really hollow this time round, is the earth performance of it, I should say, is it is act? These are those things were collateral damage to the policy and there's a weird: that's where the stubborn neatly, I think
policy wise, that's what he sees them as now. Maybe it's a human being, obviously, histories very as you say, Johnny doesnt want soldiers to die. No decent person would but it's There's a weird disconnect between what we are constantly being told he feels and when he actually says it does so oh the political consequences here are unknowable. there's another person in american politics who was facing political consequences that we will know soon enough. That'S- gave a new some in California and our friend dancing, nor has done fantastic podcast, his post corona podcast, which it can subscribe to one apple, Google placed at your wherever post, corona series of interviews with people talking about what life will be like after Roma Dan interviews, Mcmurphy, who I said yesterday, was the best occur in american politics and dad
Anne who got help get Arnold Schwarzer elected in the last recall election in two thousand and three and he and damn analyze, the Gavin Newsome Recall, and what the Chances are, and the possibilities are, for this recall two succeed. It is a great conversation. It's very provocative, it's really funny and you who should go. Listen. To it and profit from it. That's dancing or a postcard podcast with MIKE Murphy, Go to Apple, Google replaced it your download, it listen and there and you'll. Thank me for that let's go to some of the, as as the as the weeks pass D conversation around this, Parker and the discussion of whose Sponsible and all that has been getting more
sophisticated and more layered and more interesting. in some ways: I want to talk about Ross doubts column today in the New York Times. If you haven't read it, you should go, do so Does it Ross who is You know one of the best columnists America use? This is column in uncharacteristic sickly angry town to say he never thought that he could be it cynical that he thought he's really nice co person, but he starts by saying among the guy. I thought it was a cynic about twenty one Afghanistan today, after watching our stumbling was wrong and the swift collapse, practically everything we fly. For my main feeling is. I would and cynical enough and and he goes on to say that he can't believe Everybody who is talking about this is hypocritical
or unjust, or is intellectual is is, is making intellectually indefensible cases that that that that deserve to be named shamed and they deserve to be served extirpated from from public life that kind of includes us, though his real targets, ah he says it was as all these arguments, I'm not going to get into what those are connected to a set of moods flourished. After nine eleven a mix cable news, encouraged overconfidence in american military capacities night, Eve World WAR. Two nostalgia and crusading humanitarianism and its liberal in NEO conservative forms like most Americans, I shared in those mood once after so many years of failure. I cannot imagine indulging in them now, but it's clear from the past few weeks
so they retain an intense subterranean appeal in the America elite. Thus, generals and grand strategist who presided over quagmire folly in defeat fanning Attica The television networks and opinions pages to champion another twenty years in Afghanistan, you have the word: the media as liberal hawks and centrist Pentagon's demographers Jason by their own credulous. Contributions to the treat of american power over the past twenty years, and you ever begins. Who posture is called I'd realists in the trumpet then he suddenly turning back into eager crusaders, excited to own fighting Democrats and relive the brief postal imperialism answer me. They are treated their party with deference rather than contempt, again Biden deserves plenty prison, but like the trumpet ministration in its wiser moments, he is trying to do untangle America from a set of fear. policies that many of his loudest critics long supported so
I bring this up only to say that I think this is probably go to be the perspective that sticks Some extent, in other words, sang among among the liberal lead that is struggling to figure out what to say about this. That will not. Meyer them with us in a NEO conservative quagmire. to say look. This is all hopeless. Ten years ago was clear that it was hoped less, and we should have extra cave yourself them and generals, everybody wouldn't let us and now finally Biden you Know- has ripped off the band aid and yet terrible it's terrible and he Anita bad job. Any ripped off the bandit at least and now all of these people who own different aspects of why everything is so tat liberal hawks, who get out, said Adena. What you know white, who is referring to exactly better liberal Hawks
and NEO conservatives who had world war one fantasy, and this in that, and but he was going out there saying this could have been done differently. You know you know ITALY is a is as it should be listened to, and and is a person of of of no credibility So I think this is gonna. Stick That's interesting to me is how it fails to deal with the very simple fact of thee. What happened here? Witches Then it is a choice we were driven out of Afghanistan. We didn't lose battles that required us ever by the way. We do not lie whose battles that required us to pull out of Afghanistan even ten years ago we did not lose battles. We were the stalemate. So there by the first surge. That would alter the dynamic between us and tell them. We did not.
whose battles we do that we did not have to leave Afghanistan. So he deals with this that one point, when he says that out, very easy for people like me to say this right. The argument, for instance, the situation in Afghanistan was reasonably stable and the war as death toll negligible before that Mistress and serve movie toward withdrawal. In fact, only U S. Casualties were low, while afghan military and civilian casualties were nearing too ten thousand annually and the Taliban were clearly gaining ground. That's just, we would have needed periodic surges of: U S, forces and periodic spikes in; U s death to prove it the slow motion version of what's happening quickly as we ve left. Ok,. This is where everything that he is saying falls apart,
because only U S. Casualties were low. Raises the question of what our opportunity cost was in leaving which was low. We didn't, we were not gonna pay. A huge price by state because our casualties are low. Afghan casualties were high. our casualties were low. How does that argue against our staying is? Are we looking to pacify Afghanistan? Because if he thinks that fifteen thousand if he thinks the Pat Taliban aren't gonna, kill fifteenth Some people this year in their efforts to re reimpose there.
Benighted totalitarian reactionary horror, you know he's delusional alleges. I have a quick points. I suspect know has a longer one, but I think something else that that I'm completely undermine thrust his argument, and I still think it is the best argument against us against against what we believe in, but I think what he absolutely thoroughly ignores is the good that was done and was being done in Afghanistan, including what it got us what the United States gained from being there. He doesn't actually deal with that. We kept the Taliban out of power which, in turn kept
terrorist organizations like Al Qaeda from collecting their planning attacks on us and our friends there and other and other terrorist groups, we did it for a relatively low cost, as, as things ended up. Ok, so before you go, no I'd just gonna make the final point that he makes and sweep will probably haven't. Haven't read the Pisa ok on the or the argument that the mission Afghanistan could come to resemble in some way our long term presence in Germany or South Korea, because a delusional historical analogy before the collapse of the Kabul government and a completely ludicrous one. Now he's right, because you know we have twenty eight thousand guys in North Korea, and we had twenty five hundred and fifty of them. So ludicrous comparison, because, as always Seven years after the end of the war in Korea, we have,
of ten times the number of men in Korea that we had in Afghanistan and the status quo was holding Noah. Please sure if this is the highest quality argument against our position and they made our lives quite easy. As you said, the notion here that afghan casualties,
Are somehow indicative of our own failure would indict every forward operating position? We currently man and are using to execute strikes on terrorist tariff organizations who want to export terrorism to the United States and our allies. It would indeed our presence in Iraq indict our presence in Somalia and data presence in Chad and Molly are those places that rushed out that wants to disengage from quite possibly. But if he's bold enough to say as much, he hasn't been yet another thing that he says in his column. Is that because snow after the mujahideen, in the United States executed in operations covering operations that led to the Soviet Union to withdraw in eighteen? Eighty, nine that the government held up fur for quite some time, which is indicative of how the Soviet Union, its dotage, somehow managed to build a nation state that was more enduring than our nation
rather than a bill, the state that was more enduring than anything United States to put together that is, frankly insane a historical self hating nonsense. The notion that we ve been didn't build up a civil society that was I think, remotely like what the Soviet Union did is insane we'd export. It afghans who are westernized intelligent, shockingly contribute great, can contributors to the societies that they ve helped build outside their country and in their own country, to say nothing of the fact that the soviet government, the puppet state now Ghana, Saint Aubert, dissolve the night ninety one, their president went into hiding in a United Nations Compound in Kabul, where he remained until he was dragged out of their decision. old and hung from a lamp post in the interim there was a lot of fighting that was going on in the provinces between an insurgent organization that hope no governing platform which doesn't remotely parallel there
psoric innovation, which was the governing entity firm, what eight years prior to the american invasion, two thousand one. They have pre existing relationships with these people to make this comparison is so negligent and so shockingly, a historical that it frankly invalidates much of the rest of the column, which I do believe, as I said previously, masks a grander policy prescription, which is quite more in saying, which has the abandonment entirely of America's responsibility to preserve its interests and its citizens are frontier brought against terrorists. You want to kill you Bob Kragans piece in the washing posts we talked about yesterday makes one simple salient point that raw staff at cannot answer. This line cannot answer, which is. It has been twenty years, we are too we shy of twenty years. And there has not been another major terrorist attack on american soil. That is the justification for the mission in Afghanistan
and period period. Can you imagine, had we somehow left in twenty ten and that our ban hadn't had another twenty years to do great. Whatever was can you imagine that the government in Kabul would have stood up and that there wouldn't be he caught, the ISIS wouldn't have reconstituted itself there I've been ISIS and Afghanistan instead of in Syria and in Iraq. I mean it's not as though the jihadist temptation has gone away. Number one and then to its, not as though all it needs is some fertile fields to plough the fact that we are in it, Ghana stand prevented Afghanistan from becoming ISIS of all ISIS Warp. having to ices as opposed to one in twenty thirteen. Twenty fourteen
That is the simple fact of the matter when you get to the question of U S interests and if you wanted, then go into the hole you about whether about Amerika was delusional about you know exporting democracy and all that I am very happy to have that conversation, one of the things that has been driving the absolutely bananas and that drove me. Bananas George W Bush gave his second inaugural in. Two thousand and five with this messianic vision of a wave of of of of democratic liberalism spreading its face across the world in the twenty first century, which may happen Zoe only twenty one. There eighty years ago yet, but was I never went into this people that I didn't go into this thinking that muslim countries were fertile fields for the the installation of liberal democracy like I was a sum of student, a bird Louis,
I'm, not a student of Michael person. I don't going around thinking that what one of the weird things that happened in Afghanistan was that there. Was this election in two thousand and two and it went wild we better than anybody ever could possibly have anticipated. Betty remember this with the purple fingerprints, the purple you had yet the they had to do to have your fingerprinting purple and peace who held up their fingers in the entire country participated in this wild successful election that was a prize- nobody like all you know, we're gonna go in there and then we're gonna. Have this wonderful election? There's gonna be a wonderful democracy function. If ass and the truth is that the damp democratizing project Afghanistan, when better than buddy- could event is it was not the purpose of it. It was in one day we went there and that's not wasn't the reason. We were there now and being good with Ghani in President Gandhi His relation with us. This is all about preventing,
worse things from happening that but never do when you're a superpower. A lot of what you are doing is putting corks and dams or slapping up stuff it out sloppily to make sure that the that the roof doesn't collapse, and that's what we were doing in Afghanistan and that's why we were in Afghanistan after the tallow. and fell, and after we rested Al Qaeda You know what a gal Obama went into his Obama, I'm so sorry Bin Laden went into his highly home. It is always in a democracy, promotion and successes, notably Germany, Japan and South Korea are incidental. It's a secondary consequence of the pursuit of a mission that the american isolation is right never gives us credit for, which is the
pursuit of our immediate national interests we? Why were we in Afghanistan awry Worryin Germany too, to deter the Soviet Union from attacking Europe, and it was not a consequence free occupation in the forties? Why worry in South Korea to the term North Korea not to promote them up see things in the military dictatorship until the seventies aid has not obey. These ladys had nothing to do with democracy promotion it just sort of how and along the way I might have happened in Afghanistan. We will never know.
But it is always the pursuit of a media, american national interests, the defence of those interests and the protection of american citizens. That get are those of the missions that were executing democracy. Promotion is always secondary to them, and the failure of democracy promotion does not indict the mission it never has, and the american isolationist right and their colleagues on the left, who have been a mirror image. The same views never always use that to indict the mission when within because they can't indict the mission directly, because the american people would reject that something indict something that is incidental to its second secondary consequence of it. In order to make a case that they can't make honestly look the promotion. of democracy, promotion has three or four different levels. Ok, look Frida, Korea made this point twenty years ago and it's a kind of its two more than twice years ago, and it's kind of in some ways a stupid point. I hate to put it this way, but his cup, which is like a
actions are not democracy, and that is right. Elections are not democracy, they have elections in totalitarian countries and authoritarian countries. The fact of life some even election by the way that isn't rigged is not democracy. Right or report were rub republican democracy as we can, did it, but it's an element without which you cannot have it. So you start there and then the quest, as every kind of goes well can see what happens after that and what happens after that, and what happens after that and you know if we go to He would not want to live under Afghanistan's regime. The core and we would not want to live under a rocks regime, and we would not want that for ourselves but the question is: what would they be? Had we not been there?
and what the circumstances under which they live. You dont know, because you can't run a counterfactual, you can only Europe think it through What would life be like there? Had we never been there right. The issue with a rock in the car, controversial rock was whether the sacrifice was worth it to us all. Cost all the debt and the fact that we didn't find the weapons of mass destruction. That is not what we're talking about Afghanistan, I'm sorry because the issue of Afghanistan is it's very easy to say what Afghanistan did for us. And is also very easy to say we were continuing to do. We were doing in order to make sure that those gains
Remained present with as light footprint is possible. That's the thing people forget or have forgotten what it's like in the world. When terrorist organization is doing well and is gaining strength, there are copycat groups, an affiliate, affiliate agreed. That pop up all over the planet and just get your individual radicalizing individuals. We forgot his strength, inspire all sorts of horrors, We ve seen much that the past four years actually were, and I hate to say it I'd, be shocked. We don't start seeing it again. Ok, here's here's the thing: let's talk about how these things can develop SIRI uses chemical weapons, Obama says that's the red line, serious chemical weapons, and then he blinks right,
and he doesn't do anything about it and. ISIS Forms takes over territory takes over after the rock and then there is a colossal refugee crisis, destabilize is Europe and is the harbinger of the? populist revolution only in Europe, but in the United States, all of which comes from eight, adding to it brings from a kind of weird simple route, which was we see you- can use chemical weapons Assad used Chemical weapons Obama didn't act. Are you forgot Sunday? He also invited Russia right into the country to mediate that conflict and remove all chemical weapons and twenty thirteen right. They subsequently said they did they hadn't our dependence on Russia and Syria, and further negotiations of the Randal subsequently made Moscow bold enough to invade and next year a Tory in your ok
There is another point insult five. So my point here is that these things have consequences that do us I mean if you hate Trump anew Trump is the worst thing that ever happened. Trump may not happen. If Obama goes into SIRI. I'm not joking about this, like the the fact that that immigration because this obsessive issue in the United States as if it had been gaining, it was growing. I'm not saying that this didn't have a domestic route did it at twenty years of a domestic routes, but in twenty fifteen, We saw Germany and bureau at the entire EU overrun with millions of refugees, and they. Didn't know what to do about it, they had no. whoever handle it and end trump comes along to make the case that a
I hope that at the liberal system that allows this kind of ass is destructive of arms. Of our order, and it gives you know again it like, a liberal who doesn't like. Do you want to stay in Afghanistan? I mean if I were going to say the most. The easiest to predict proximate gods go crazy thing that to say- and you could put it down to the thirty first of August, twenty Twond. What I mean easy at the euro that the likeliest thing. If you're gonna look on the horizon of what's gonna happen as a result of this is the Trump is re elected president and get has second term in twenty twenty four LISA he's going. I think it's not that crazy he's going to. I was soon that was just announced I'll, be very curious to hear what Biden says this afternoon disposed to have up this post.
Take me to run one thirty about why to forty five or without of course, and soon will just be a lead and they'll go no statement but there, but the and he's he's it's like Groundhog day with him. Trying to trying to figure out ones can speak, but he he's clean This is going to explain why they didn't stay longer. it's gonna, be his justification. Speed but You're reading in the Wall Street Journal that call Mr Baker had an interesting piece today, where he revisited how lighten introduced his four. policy team and his foreign policy worldview writer for he took office, and it was up. Reed domestically focus was focused on white supremacist. It was focused on yes, you know America, his back and we are allies, are so important, but but the actual foreign policy part was very vague. The specifics are all about domestic threats, internal threats, and I think that that was a gamble that they took at the time. That is not going to pay off and trumpet capitalize on that. If he is able to
we hope there are hostages, american hostages being held by the Taliban when the presidential election of twenty four heats up. That will work only two trumps advantage. If he runs ok guys, I need to talk to about neutral fall, cause look when it comes to sitting here, you no longer have to choose between natural remedies and those that work there is a plastic solution for men that promotes wealth, healthier, hair and whole body wellness without drugs or prescriptions new false currently shown to improve hair air rostick. This invisible scalp coverage without compromise, twenty one put natural ingredients, support better sleep and less stress too, and a clinical study. Men show progressive improvement in higher growth in thickness after three and six months. Neutral follows also trusted recommended by fifteen hundred top doctors you can grow thicker, healthier here and supporter show. By going the neutral fall dot com and entering promo code commentary to say fifteen dollars off your first,
Subscription this is their best offer anywhere It's only available to us. Customers were limited time, plus free shipping on every order get fifty dollars off, neutral fall, dotcom swelled and you t r, a f o l, dotcom, promo code commentary so without without a lot of ranting here, while raving a lottery, Antium ranting, raving wondering whether we whether we are going to see. as I say, the Ross doubts of wine or something like that, we were going to see a an effort, a kind of a Frances develop that it was good Biden dead and he did it badly, and and so we'll just have to see where things go now right at them, maybe he did it badly, but little bee
ok, maybe that badly and they'll be bad consequences and will have to deal with them there. But you know his heart was in the right place and seventy percent of the country, Greece, with it dad. So now What's the matter of like like execution and then, go back to March myths and on Jared and the hum heads of thousands, if not millions, of military families who have you no committed who's, who who have members who committed themselves to the task of protecting and defending America after nine eleven. And they are going to be some kind of a an unorganized political force in This country in the wake of this I don't know what I don't know. How and again this is that this is where things interesting, because you just don't you know, these are all bank shots. Nothing follows a linen
your pattern? That's why it's foolish trump will be president, twenty twenty five, because things don't follow a linear pattern, but I think the idea that something dishonourable happened here and that they they do not want to be complicit in the dishonour and that they don't want to scare. You know that that at isolating it on Biden and his team is in fact a way of saying. No. The country was not dishonourable. politicians made dishonourable decisions that we are not we will simply not countenance or we are not going to allow ourselves to believe that what happened here happened for no reason. I ain't us actually true and that's gonna, be part of the push back. I think the other is that We are probably much sooner than we realise going to start to feel the world become palpably more dangerous and
in in in the very ways that that, sadly, we could have predicted we would have in such a case. We have anointed the Taliban as kings of the jihad and what what's going to come of that look? What's gonna what the outcome of that it is impossible to predict in terms of specific, but it's it's certainly going to be wrapped up wrapped up fear and threats to us to our allies and it's going to be visible and it's gonna come soon and I think that's gonna, that's gonna change anything if Russia's take becomes the established take. I think that that will change well filled work. It's bomb is called homage to a government and obviously was anything but an homage.
the government, and you can pretty much say the same about today's podcast. Actually, the morrow for aid, Christina No John, put words, keep the candle burden
Transcript generated on 2021-09-22.