Today's podcast takes up the so-called "billionaires tax" that is the hot topic in Washington and subjects it to scrutiny—is it constitutional? will it generate sufficient revenue? what will the consequences be for ordinary people?—which is maybe the worst (or best!) thing you could do to such a concept. Then, it's education and why Democrats and liberals seem unable to understand why it may be hurting them. Give a listen.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
some guy come to the Commentary Magazine Daily podcast today is Tuesday October twenty six, twenty twenty one. I am. but of course, the editor commentary reminding you again to go to commentary dot, Org, slash roast twenty one to get your tickets. Today, To the roast of mayors holiday commentaries annual fund raising blowout event November, any second Monday November, twenty second in person live with everybody together in New York City.
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and associate editor nor Rossman high. Now Hydra Noah, you wrote, a really really great post yesterday about a billion airs tax. That is being disk. That has somehow resurfaced in the process of the desperate efforts to come up with some funding mechanism for thee, reconciliation, social spending bill that will either be three trillion or trillion, and a half or four and a half trillion or disease. RO trillion or two trillion, nor eighty, two trillion or whatever and so all of a sudden. Because kissed and Cinema said It did not want to see tax rates raised and because
Joe Biden said he would not raise a dollar in taxes on anyone in America making less than four hundred thousand dollars a year. They got a fine from somewhere and so run widen pulls out of the door. Centre for Morgan Hag at this idea, let's just tax. The seven hundred rich people in the United States,. Using this fancy Nancy. He pansy method, of essentially taxing money that exists on paper, but not in anybody's pocket. Rang wanna get I mean that's it that's a very charitable way to describe a complete revision of the american Social Compact so it s essentially Democrats out of the blue in their efforts to create some sort of funding mechanism for this bill that they have a self set deadlines to pass by the end of the
weak or within a week. This idea tax, unrealized gains, which would otherwise be taxes, capital gains after two hundred and fifty thousand dollars. So you can exempt if new cash out on your investment, so billionaires, roughly seven hundred billionaires people, nine figure incomes in this country, very small number of people would be subject to it. Tax on the assets they own, namely stocks and even real estate
in the end, are they work in the event that they were to cash out on their investments, meaning the market value, as we assume it to be today, which is again just an assumption, would be tax. Their liquid assets would be taxed, based on the idea that they had sold those assets which they never sold. This kind of the wild hare brained scheme somehow just got tremendous purchase among Democrats in the in their caucus over the course of forty eight hours, and it became a talking point in the Sunday shows this weekend and there the really not sure how to sell it. Nancy policy is calling it a wealth, Tax Treasury Secretary General Yelena thanks, not really a wealth taxes just attacks on wealth. All of it doesn't make a whole lot of sense in part, because, for a variety of reasons, the first being that the revenue that this is projected to generate is poultry, it is expected to generate roughly two
hundred billion dollars over the course of ten years again there trying to put together if one point, five trillion dollar package, so this basically doesn't fund anything the second of all being that it would obviously have tremendous market distorting effects and allotted downside when he poison the investment climate like this, which would dramatically reduce investment and the associated economic growth with it, which would have put downward pressure on revenues, which is what they need to actually find these things, the third being that it's probably ridiculous, the unconstitutional. I mean it's a basically a direct tax which is paroquet. We need to explain that because I think this is the ultimate point. And than William was made during Elizabeth warns, run for further work, that's we haven't you just conversation's great. Let me just read the text of the sixteenth amendment to the: U S: Constitution, which created the national income tax, quote the Congress
shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived taxes on incomes from whatever source Of course, it is that there is no income in an asset that is then on it, generates no come, the income that is generated, let us say for by stocks that are sitting there, which are dividends right, that's taxed. This is so blatantly unconstitutional said, I mean you don't this is Elementary logic, there is a He's in that it says in the six The amendment passed in nineteen thirteen,
the Congress of the power the lame collect taxes on incomes, it could have said, lame, collect taxes and left it at that. But even if the companies, the the the drafters of these amendments, the thirty eight states ratified at the. However, many. You know congressmen and centres who voted on it. Literally insisted, on inserting the phrase on incomes a weird the seeing but may yes, sir, it future. Seeing way that what you would do, If you said Congress has the power to lay collect. Taxes would precisely be to give Congress the power to expropriate monies. that people collect and that they put in their mattress. Ok, is worrying.
Finally, allow me to articles yet little problems here with this thanks, so that's gonna be complicated. Average voters are probably not gonna be consumed with the constitutionality or the jurisprudence around the transfer of wealth, which is what has constitutional as opposed to like a transaction or in excise tax, as opposed to just taking money because it exists. That's can be hard to articulate Democrats, however, our power, Themselves into a corner now because they have to article eight a limiting principle to this, which invariably leads you to conclude that there, the limiting per
what can be violated if and when it becomes necessary and appropriate. So you say: ok well. This is only subject to this to this tax. It you know, the billion airs, who have all these stocks and and bonds and in real estate is not gonna, be applicable to me, because we would never tax the equity in your primary residents right now. So sudden, you're thinking about people taxing your equity in primary residence, at which point you big data, the sprawl the mission create becomes obvious and again Democrats are forcing themselves not that to the idea that class envy is gonna, do a lot of work here for them, but that still involves persuasion and that's part of the problem are experiencing as pollsters by John Bennigsen and Neil knew how set in this piece in the washing washing postnatal waves this week is that Democrats are spending all their time talking to people with whom they were in their base, who already agree with them: they're talking about their priorities and no one else is, and by Leaning heavily into the class warfare stuff you're again going to appeal to progressives at the expense
Everyone else, only the of the issues that they care about, which are increasingly exclusively inflation, consumer prices and the state of the economy, the micro economy, their pocket book issues there, just ignoring them, and that's just yet in end for four two hundred billion dollars. There's subjecting themselves to this so Just what can I say one one point on the constitutionality issue, even if they somehow managed to argue and win the argument that this was a constitutional tax. There's the opposite fact of it right and that's that if you are going to tax appreciation, then you also to give back that money. If there's depreciation right things lose value as well as gain it to this idea. That always just this is a win win words gonna. Take the money on appreciation. Will then, if they lose the value of those investments if they lose the value of that art worker that homer whatever's being taxed. The governess give that money back right. That's a depreciation! So there's there's a problem there.
Mother, I grew through Germany. It didn't know it's while the unconstitutional, but the other point is as no was saying. It's not generating revenue is generating massive amounts of resentment and not just among billionaires. These politicians seem to forget that american, regular Americans don't look at billionaires and, for the most part, say their horrible. We should punish them most Americans. Look at that success in, say, that's pretty os I wonder if I could do that or it is asked, there's an aspirational element to wealth inequality in this country. That's often overlooked by those. Alas, no, not everybody shares that, obviously, but to overlook entirely in an assumed that the american people are gonna. Gonna, think that this kind of taxation is gonna. It resentment and isn't gonna have to do what it did in Europe, which is drive these wealthy people out of those countries they'll just park, their wealth elsewhere. That's, Clearly, what is the practical thing, and at least eight have had the foresight to include an exit tax of forty percent exit tax and anybody who bolted for the exit
there's something I mean look. I agree that the the the constitutional future of overshadows every other glaring problem with this, but There is another obscenity here which is at Ok, so you got it, you can attacks, these people based on be the appreciation of their wealth that they haven't cashed in on what happens when they cash in on it bigger. there, the text all over again for that for that for the very same earning which is also in custody they get a refund were being too one year based on the market value of their assets, which didn't material as the year later, when actually did qualify for capital right. Well, let's take you on my as an example Elon Musk Moscow sitting there. He has twin he trillion shares of teslas stock,
As we know, the market has gone crazy right, the market to thirty five thousand urban dazzled, thirty five thousand or some like that so Ellen because now the richest man in the world, because his stock prices, whatever it was, and three there's a was half of what it is that it is now. So we got all the stock sitting there and its valued on December thirty, first, twenty twenty one at a hundred billion dollars, or something like that, and then he has to pay tax on the unrealized gain whatever that means, and then next year, ten test was blow up or teslas battery is shown to be a pollutant or whatever it is, and suddenly was market value drops by two thirds. He was taxed for money that he didn't. on, because it was sitting there a stock in twenty
twenty one with this big stock run up and then the next year, suddenly half as well, as he was this year, but the already pay tax taxes though he already had that money aside from a b unfair, though maybe you can look at this and say you can't talk about fairness with people who have money in this. You know at these quantities that That's wrong! That's why we have an equality, its amiss understanding of fairness, There is no way on earth that that this happened, in a way that will actually fill the coffers of the federal government because Elon Musk, has literally no incentive to pass scent of any of this ever he will take them to court until he is dead and he will not send that
back to the requests that money will never be seen. These seven hundred people will not pay up and am hears here here's. Another serve important point that I hadn't thought up, but that I was very much inspired by brilliant blog post by a professor a bit this at anyway, you stern business school ass, well, ass. The moderates, who explains that, if you think about how this works we'll all you're doing is advancing the payment from the inheritance tax to the present. So right now the German collects a lot of money and inheritance taxes off the very wealthy gay if they pay taxes on unrealized gains now they're not gonna, be paying them there. their issue isn't gonna, be paying them at the time that they die.
Which means that you're just shifting around a tax liability or a towered ex, as we are with shifting around tax receipts. Its like the net game The government is gonna, go up one sent over twenty years that would be paid eventually, when stuff is liquidated, now you're paying it now. So you won't pay it later. So you. actually not give a gain any more money for the government. You're just gonna be playing accounting game to get money more money up front and, as Knowest said, it's not that much money, it's like when he billion dollars a year. It's too billion dollars over ten years. It's not a huge amount of money, so it's stupid, among other things, and the other thing that profess
Adam Odorant says, is that taxing people on gains as opposed to income, is very unstable, one other reasons that states can and should rely and capital gains were the revenues they need. Is the head gains come and go in a down market You know the amount of money you're gonna get from a capital gains. Tax is much lower Then it was the previous year when the market was up, say, was real estate, capital gains and all of that and he has achieved I hear of California is what California's receipts as opposed to floor. this receipts, California, taxes, all capital gains.
As ordinary income, whereas Florida does not do so in Florida knows how much money it's gonna get every year in taxes and therefore can budget properly. and California can't because one year it'll get a lot of money and then, in the next year it'll be it'll, be you know like an empty coffer and things will be terrible, and this is no way to run a railroad repel. What's the point of all this, what are they trying to do? Besides get Kherson cinnamon onboard? This is apparently a fig leaf for her because from what we hear, she is willing to accept this as a revenue driver and and that that would be her buying her a bit her. She can
faced with their constituents that way how how on earth? In what way is this some sort of an umbrella? How she getting cover with this nonsensical, blatantly unconstitutional, paltry poultry revenue generator? I don't. I don't understand it save for the fact that their just it just more flailing when you pole theoretically, should the rich pay more in taxes. Seventy to eighty percent of people say yes right, that's That's the political justification, you're asking why they endanger being salient, I'm saying why are they doing this stupid? I'm saying they're saying we can get away with it, because people hate the worried. I think the rich pay more in taxes, that's yeah! I get it and that's one of the things that democratic tell themselves as a people are very supportive, for example, of their environmental policies. just not a priority. It's no one's priority, safer Democrat.
Especially now by the way, because what is the fundamental problem with with jobs in the country. Today, people who are out of work have it good enough that there are not looking for more work. These are the same people that that were supposed to believe are incensed at the moment about about you know the rich having too much money and inefficient. As I said this video very recently, the point of which was it was, it was done by a psychologist right, any any says, look here's what most people think the wealthiest people in America have percentage wise and it was some relatively smaller percentage of the national wealth
then is actually the case, and his point was people don't even realise how obscene it is that, though, that such a sum, Our group in this country have so much wealth. The average Americans perception of this is completely distorted, and I thought that's a good Think. That's because the average American has its good enough the they assume that their class is has as a more substantial percentage of the wealth of the country than they. Well, that's wonderful and That's actually and that the idea that their resentment is gonna be focused on there's when in about two and a half weeks, America's gonna go to the grocery store to shop for their Thanksgiving dinner and the sticker shock of what they're going to pay for the same meal that they made year before you that near before them. That is gonna. That's gonna be on their mind, a lot more than whether Elon, musk or Jeff bases are, are getting tax on there
and their many properties and mean this sticker shock at the grocery store is real and climbing. This is one thing we talked about briefly with the Virginia race how the Virginia race has portended a horrifying future from Democrats perspective in which they lose the issue of education. Shocking, never happen, you just say you throw your traditionally, you say: let's higher more teachers, throw money at schools, that's how you, when the issue and that their losing the issue by train, transforming education into an upper down referendum on social engineering, now they're losing pocket book is now they're losing micro, economic issues, household issues, basic Klaus hold financing issues at these are two bread and butter for my entire life. The Democrats could rely on as issue sets the day. When can I give you another talking point to tell your friends at the dinner table, wanna say: what's the problem were, and why should you be threatened by this thing? That only effect? Seven Hundred billionaires because peace
listen to the past. I think one arc want good arguments for things that are sometimes it's hard to argue about. Well know a mention this about whether or not people will. I if you start saying you tax unrealized gains, then you can looking to the sixty two percent of Americans who owned homes who bought their homes, are under one thousand dollars now they're worth one hundred and fifty thousand dollars, and maybe you could get some money by taxing that v. Thousand dollar gain less depreciation or whatever, so that its thirty two thousand dollars. I could come up with a tax on that and that can have everybody and you say I'll come on. This is just about those seven hundred billion there's. Well, let me tell you a story about the alternative minimum tax. Some people listen, now my voice, pay that alternative minimum tax or have paid at some point or other in the past,
The alternative minimum tax began in nineteen sixty nine as a result of a single article in the New York Times published in nineteen sixty eight that revealed that a hundred and fifty Five high income, households in the United States had not paid any federal income. Taxes Because there were so many deductions and shelters, and things like that that day that they manage to get a tax liability numbered down to zero and they didn't pay anything. Ok. So in order to capture some revenue from these one hundred, five five hundred come households with legally used the tax code. may legal way to reduce their tax burden Congress created an add on tax. This is unjust holding Wikipedia here, an add on tax on high income, households equal to ten percent of the sum of tax preferences and access,
Thirty thousand dollars, plus the taxpayers, regular tax liability. So I didn't fifty five household had to pay essentially a flat tax of ten percent over thirty thousand dollars and income in addition regular taxes- ok just sure they paid some taxes hundred and fifty five household twenty seventeen, which was forty seven years later,. five point: three million people paid the alternative. Minimum tax went from attacks intended to capture revenue from a hundred and fifty five people to a system. That taxed more than five million people with a flat tax that was about twenty percent in excess of what they would have
aid is a normal taxpayer. In normal income they paid about twenty seven percent in federal tax, as most people pay about. twenty one percent, which is about a twenty or twenty five percent difference. That's what happens when you create attacks that only affects a hundred seven hundred billion airs. Forty years later, five million people are gonna, be in that tax system. With their gains their unreal ever be like noto, don't worry, it will only be homes where more than ten million dollars that you'll have to pay your unrealized game on and so it'll be be homes worth five million and they'll be homes worth two million. And then individual states will do it before the federal government. Does it so you'll be paying that capital game in the state New Jersey, but you won't be it merits or whatever that's how the two?
Overton Window moves you create. Something new and grows. Like worries law to fill. This thought you know, and so That's one of the reasons why this is to be resisted. The question is: what is the political will to resist it? That's the question. No a year thing, Senator Cinema has no reason there doing this. Trying to read her mind about what tax increase she will accept right because she said. She doesn't want an increase in rates. By the way is the only way to raise the kind of revenue that they need to offset the cost of the bill Mr raise rains use you can collect two trillion five. For ten years, through these modalities, You can't the only way to do it is to raise rates. Go back to thirty nine point, six percent from thirty seven go, act that you know like raise the middle class up to twenty nine from twenty eight. Whatever you want to call it an
the revenue will flow it that's the only way to do it problem is that they said they want women but Dimension Mansion Cinema are not going to agree to a period and, what's more, you know who else couldn't possibly vote for that. Maggie Hassen in New Hampshire, a low tax state in which people don't like paying taxes, local your bet- and she is in locked in a row that she may lose next November, twenty twenty, two when governor sooner runs for the Senate. Or action. Cinema are carrying a lot of water for people whose heads are not above the law we're all talking about management, cinnamon, mansion Cinema, if they weren't there, it's not, here to me that they are just they are providing Cover because they think it's to their benefit, to people who, otherwise, when the rub I'm the road would have to vote no on this package right or market
they in areas or Mark Warner in Virginia we'd. Another position, and this is also the grass digression into new wrinkle that all the sudden cinema opposition to this whole thing is about revenue. Generators wasn't the entirety of this this Congress. Her problem was that there was too much spending. Not the lack of revenue. and the lack of revenue here is still still persists, because this is not a lot of revenue is to me baffling and its suggestive of what I think we all agree, which is that this there isn't a pathway to passing this social social infrastructure, reconciliation bill they because it doesn't exist, which is a pretty big obstacle to passing it and be because they're just doesn't seem to be any political will among Democrats to actually
suffer the consequences of passing something like this Allah, twenty, ten. Okay. We need to move on to the politics, but first let me talk to you about our friend that might box wink deliver. Grass FED and grass finished beef and Lamb pastured pork and chicken and wild caught alaskan salmon direct your door, helping family farms, William? Financially independent outside big agriculture, there also raised outdoors their fish swim wild in the ocean and MIKE meat is free of antibiotics, hormone sugar and all the other junk. You find pre packaged in the meat I'll sign up at White Box, dot com slashed commentary to get a year a begging for free and then pick what me to want delivered with your first box change, what you get each month and cancel any time. Moyne was founded by an eighth duration farmer, who is featured on shark tank, Kevin O Leary set its the best bacon is ever tasted.
Jamie, Simonov Creator of the ring video doorbell invested in moiling join them. Women today, gotta to box dotcom, Slash commentary right now and listeners to the show will get free bacon free, here, that's when you're the best begging, you'll ever taste, but for a limited time, spelled M O. I end K Box, dot, com, slashed commentary, that's wink box, dot, com, slash! commentary. So here's what I read. Ok, what I read is there on the verge: it's coming there scrambling to get this done before. President Biden gets on a plane to go to glass, go for the climate my change whoop. you do in Glasgow. Scotland, First of all, can I get on the phone second of all, what and third of all- that's really the deadline that he's going gonna get on a plane. What is this a movie and with somebody has to run through the airport to stop somebody from getting
plain to London, otherwise they'll never see them again or whatever yeah going. I didn't set this building its building. This deadline on congressional Democrats said this deadline. After the failures of their efforts to pass the hard infrastructure bill, as they did not because Joe Biden was getting on a plane to Glasgow that wasn't on the radar at the time. What was on the way our and remains on the radar and is a glaring red, I got the radar is November. Second, the off your elections, which are increasing one working week. Today scale in days perspective and will have far reaching psychological effects. If, if it, if it ends up being as close as we think it is, or you know who even knows what the effect would be, if one or both Republicans and it's very unlikely managers are the tools it so the new journey or re possible in right. So New Jersey race between Filmer,
the end stir said a rally I live here. it's ridiculous. This guy is at forty four percent in the polls and There are no one. I can remember his name because he's like the guy who was not the current democratic governor, whose name also people have some trouble, remembering anyway, and then, of course, the young King Mccall of Race in Virginia and the FAO, Thing is every political professional. I know says this age don't think they're enough there republican votes in Virginia every uncle to win bah He's a good kid he's running a good re semi. I know no Mccall of was acting like he's, not winning and, as somebody said to me yesterday of the pub poles are showing in them the Arcy p. In those five thirty eight averages show,
basically, it is a one point race with Mccall if in the lead, which means that it's a dead heat, given the margin of error, although the margin of error doesn't count in a pool of poles, but you know it's one. One point. Again? What we know is Republicans, haven't been answering the phone in the last couple of cycles and have been the estimated in terms of both count. So do you look at that and say younger, When I met you could look at that and say young uns, probably winning, because probably the Republican, the democratic pull bias is a couple points my us only up by one one and a half. So so the very least it's a dentist of dead, its or young and has already had, and what is Mccall if doing to close the gap. I'll tell you this, as Christine will tell you and I'm gonna ask her to explain, serve Democrats and the elites people were involved in education scene,
to be doing their best to get young can elected. Wouldn't you say Christine. Definitely, I'm I'm going to write something for it for the website about this. Today but they're there was an op ed in the Washington Post, which had I want to get the title right because it was so outrageous. I actually thought it was like a so called oaks. It said parents claim They have the right to shape their kids school curriculum, they don't and who, who at upon. Seeing this headline immediately retreated it with praise but Randy Weingarten. They have one of the nation celebrities, teachers, unions and the so you know, I think that that is the elite there on the democratic parties. I, when it comes to technocratic education policy, they really don't see there the own their own contempt here for parents, and I think that's why young can is getting this kind if support, and there was a recent brief pull in nam- I'm gonna. Let me the name of the organization right, it's a signature, something it has
The small pole from thickness Thank you, sickness kind of a generic pull that was and just the other day, and it out it broke broke out the people they were questioning in including K through twelve parents. Those parents pulled at fifty percent for generic republican ballot like just there just they ve had it with being told that they don't have a right to to what is taught to their children in school and that I honestly I mean I want to try to give the Democrats the benefit of the doubt here, but they keep making the same mistake. They keep hearing. Parents concerns instead of listening and trying to fight. And away. You know through this these controversies. They just point a finger at him and say: look at these extremists. Look at these domestic terrorist. Look at these people, who don't understand that we should be reading about gender theory and judo books that include horrific, Ray
scenes in them it. You know because we know what's best, we know what your kids are capable of a new don't and that's not how parents feel when there is a very funny of rejoinder to this peace from a former FCC chairman edgy pie, whose cited the literal text of a twenty thirteen statute in Virginia, very Virginia specific, but its relevant to what you're saying Christine quote apparent, has the fundamental right to make decisions concerning the upbringing, education and care of appearance child. That's pretty much them. The last argument against that sort of thing at least emerging at the. But what would a brothel bomber said last week? This phone is how they work. These are finally hold worth: eight felt: phony culture, ward, trumped up by by conservative news outlets, Manville So I want to talk about this commercial in Virginia cause. I want to give people larger cultural context, so there's this commercial and Virginia with this parent. Who is talking about how
she went to accede, concern about her kid? The reading list summer reading list of her kid. And was poo pooed and told to shut up and go away so This is actually a story from twenty thirteen arrive at the time that this law was passed and in Virginia and it went in question, more Murphy actually published- and I bet in Washington Post about what happened, because this happen this arose from a new story where she had discovered Her son came to her something and said they suggest they read this book and its end like I'm having nightmares it so upsetting and horrible and nightmarish, and the book in question was blue of it by Tony Morrison, into beloved by Tony Morrison, is a nightmarish book. It is about. It is about a slave who can, her child as borne out of born out of rape, because
as life is not worth living in the Bin. Anti India in in the in the anti bellum world and and and in the world of slavery and end, and it is, it is a very difficult book. Read I bring this up in part because you know MIKE I kids go to various very you know: progressive, woke private schools and get a full of all this stuff and beloved was on reading list at school. And dumb they took it off because they considered it triggering. And the whole point that Tony Morrison, the Nobel Prize in novelist, who wrote beloved, was it's supposed to be triggering the queen. gene is, is it supposed to be triggering by twelve or thirteen year old? Who doesn't
have the social emotional intellectual resources to take in. What is going on and merely experiences the horror of the book and at the associations that they might have with it absent other cultural influences. That's? Why the reasons that you might say? Well, you know I am happy that MIKE reads the diary of Anne Frank. Please he's. Don't show my kid Holocaust homes of the liberation of the camps. I myself at summer. Camp when I was eight years old, was shown on Tisha Bob, which is the day that we mourn the destruction of the temple and is more recently become a kind of Holocaust commemoration day. I thought was camp that I went to the jewish summer camp. I went to showed a movie called the eight hundred, and one blows which is of which was A compendium of holocaust film,
of the liberation of the camps and I had nightmares for years. I was eight years old, no joke like did it help it was. It was that something that I should have seen under no circumstances should I, I've, been shown this without any flavour and caught, whereas you can read and Frank, you know you could read them. Frank what happens in the diary? Diagram Frank, is a story that is not correct looted and Anne Frank with the true the it's the knowledge that she died in the camps. That is the horror that brings you the horror. The whole point is she's, an ordinary smart. You no kind of remarkable kid through a horrible life experience and get she's an ordinary kid going through ordinary lightened fighting with other it. You know stirrings appeal, all of that, so that its an ordinary
Life under extraordinary in cramped and horrible circumstances that comes to a tragic end that you miss because that's how it ends, since it is someone's dire, but there were. The whole point is that on Twitter. Yesterday, after this woman Murphy made a commercial for young. Can I guess you know, involving this whole education question I saw all of these people going o through notes, puts to red blood. No, you see the Republicans or go after a Nobel Prize winning Novelists great work, you know oh look dad, I M wearing their accusing them of wanting to ban books, and this is also inappropriate because, in fact, the original request by a lot of these parents was for alternate box like if our kid, if we don't want our kids reading these books, what
the alternatives that you will have on offer which they should offer, but the. But I think it's important to note that a lot of these discussions. When parents come to schools and say we think ex wires, he is inappropriate for kindergartners or third graders or fifth graters too, after here, because that's the kind of stuff. A lot of these things are moral, have moral meaning to families and they want to teach kids that themselves. We saw these we voice in these debates with sex education, for example, at what age or certain things appropriate. But now it's about race. gender and trans ideology, and so when parents come and want to make an argument on behalf of their children with regard to what is appropriate there being accused by the Democratic Union of the teachers unions, the democratically of wanting to ban things of wanting to censor things of wanting to not teach parts of history, and that is now what these parents are arguing at all. I mean it's very clear when you look at what they're saying they're saying we think this is inappropriate, not that we never won our kid to read beloved, but maybe they read that
high school, Ap English, when their seniors or maybe in college right. I mean they're appropriate times and places for some of this material and kindergarten and elementary school are really not appropriate places to talk about a lot of this stuff. The central and here is that the educational establishments in the United States or the public education views parents as nuisances. To be a man condescendingly or to be dismissed. Out prejudice or to be dismissed with prejudice, not as the boss, not as the taxpayer Who is paying their salaries? You with property taxes on their homes that will now have an face: a new unrealized game tax if this, People get their way, actually, but but as who are these people You know who they are there, your boss,
and they're, your customer and yes, you have created all these rules that make it impossible for you to be fired, and you created all these rules in which you you can roll? The revenue stream took Europe employer through your own, in a political power and all of that, but, as Christine said in her peace the burgeoning parents, movement which we may see come into full fruition. Next Tuesday in Virginia? If, if there was skull young uns way. Parents are that this is a first in world history. This idea, somehow that there is an interim mediating institution between children and parents that should take control of. These matters from pigs parents are incompetent to handle it themselves, many parents throughout his, you said I don't know, what's a good book you now
I dont know how to do. Math teach me kids how to reap teach my kids how to do math. I can teach my kids how to do math. teach them how to do math but of apparent says. I think your teaching, MIKE how to do math wrong because I actually I'm an engineer and that this is a better way to learn how to do math, that parent That system should be biased in favour of that parents, superior knowledge or superior. I'm staying of their kid or something like that. This notion that parents are income, but to supervise the education of their children, is a new idea in the West, since Kids were once considered the property of their parents, so much so that in Massachusetts, until the early twentieth century. You are aware to put your own child to death for big tits respectful, do you
it's a new idea? In reality, if you recall it is it, is part of what makes played as republic a nightmare scenario, because TAT was that was there was, but one of the propositions My annual direct area. Players are public, begins with with the with the bourgeois Philistine careful as showing up. and saying you know like. Oh you as you are all stupid, the wise Right Walker and talking about your philosophy, what not you're so yours full of nonsense, and then he walks off then Plato in his plate as Socrates and this cycle say we ve got to save Athens from people Like this, here's how we're gonna do it? No music parents have to be destroyed. We will we will teach you what you're supposed to think and you will all be automata in service of our of our great philosophy.
I will say, I just want to say one thing: he speaking about public education in the United States, which is there, was a real there. Was there, has been an ideal on ideological the goal in mind for public education, some of which was actually taking. Certainly in the nineteenth century. hidden early twentieth century, the melting pot of race and ethnic and religious backgrounds and putting it homogenized. Yet in some sense right. The irony a lot of the critical race theory stuff. That's infected our schools now. Is it they're just doing the other extreme right, so they were saying? Oh, you just want to hear this feel good up. You know optimistic white man's narrative about history, and we want to teach you all about the bad stuff, but they're doing the same. It's this ideological goal with a different endpoint as as what was done by a more native IST focused education, which tried to make different ethnic and racial groups conform to this sort of AIDS. Bill american image. So it's I mean the historically there may
in the same error that there they claim there trying to correct will Noah HU as a beer you as a participant in some minor participant cultural battles on Twitter. I I was struck as I read twitter, but I am go on it. I was struck by this response. to Laura Murphy in her commercial and the opt out in this whole issue with beloved from people, like Jane Coastline and others which is sort of like wow there really going for it now they want to ban books now who get out did the same Stein. Other people like that and, unlike you know, oh I'm I'm a little confused about this, because aren't you also saying that Facebook should be put out of business because it's not banning enough content, I mean granted, beloved, was written by a Nobel Prize winning writer, but I was I am unaware of a limiting principle that says that you know right wing preachment,
should be banned and should not be exposed and should occur. Private companies should suppress it, but you know a novel that makes a kid have nightmares, for we actually does create a circumstance which it kid as nightmares for months on end. That's that's fine because it does what we wanted to do and isn't at the bubble, like isn't that, like does Jane Coastal has no idea what these people why is biting why this issue was working if it is Maybe will learn that isn't working so well, but it appears to be working really well, which is you people think you can anything you want to in these schools and we're paying for them, and we don't like her. teaching our kids, we don't like the values, your imparting, torque, kids and the democratic, stable Flint has decided to back up the people who are imparting. these values and teaching this nonsense and your gift
that's no alternative, but to look elsewhere than the democratic candidate yeah, I'm sort of ambivalent to any indifferent to mildly hostile to any movement, progressive, conservative or otherwise. That would establish the predicate for the suppression of literature one way or the other, and I don't think that it's an approach with two children to traumatized children in Berlin in through literature. I really don't because they will encounter. One where the other, as long as they are probably acclimated to it and taught party. The problem is that teaching literature has become stigmatized there, I resent the idea that I can engage in cultural battles on twitter because I'm saving at all for the publication of my book, which will involve lot of cultural combat. But what Republicans are engaged here to the extent they are engaged in anything is mimicry of the kind of
stigmatization bother, reservation and suppression of literature engaged in by organizations like the American Library, Association and the sky. The School Library Journal in particular, which have big through four years engaged in efforts to convinced educators to remove from the curriculum classic literature, classic literary works, because they are too traumatic for young children for all the works of Lord Ngos, Ingles Wilder, for example, to kill a mocking bird, the inventors of very fan the k of mice in man and even the odyssey, for example, all of which have come under the the crosshairs of people who think that the portrayals of these characters, the racial gender stare. the text which they appeal and moral ambiguity through which the protagonists have to navigate our I'll. Just too much for young children,
so to the extent that the right as mimicking anybody, at least over the last decade, its mimicking, the progressive left, which has stigmatized access to these sorts of literary works, because they're afraid of the consequent that the conclusions that the reader might draw, and rather than even young guide them towards the conclusions that they would prefer. These organizations have simply decided that it's more appropriate to to relegate them to the dustbin of history and replace them with more appropriate works up to and including the works of Shakespeare, and when you follow down that path. Your literally engaging boiler relation your borrowing for Doktor Butler Dignan sanitized, the liver, literary landscape, so that delicate sensibilities will not be offended in the process. Although I think something slightly different going on here, cause it's one thing to say: shouldn't read: to kill a mocking bird because its portrayal of things does not comport with Europe
my ear. Your newly progressive understanding of how things should have worked in Obama in nineteen twenty five or you shouldn't red Huck fin B. as there is a character who was called the n. Who was one of the you noblest and greatest cat in the book, it's the tire book itself is this story. is the moral journey to understanding of a kid learning about. What racism and then, what supremacy is and why he wants no part of it, but the fact that it even porch praise it considered. You know unacceptable, simple, because of the use of words. That's not quite what's happening, Here in this case, which is, question of whether or not there are books that of twelve. You're old kid or a thirteen year old kid. maybe I shouldn't review, which is or what what what Christina saying and there I can give you
plenty, a cases including with Shakespeare. Do I think, then a twelve year old kid should read them Venice? No, I don't. Let's and that's the big distinction between what blocking out here, what we're talking about when that the case of these censorious, People in literary professions is that their talking, my high school students college did Sir talking now. Young adults who can't be confronted with these kind of morally problematic situations are not talking about children per se, even other definition of what constitutes, eldest, probably blurred to the point of non recognition, but nevertheless they don't make that distinction that conservative parents are making in this case that there is simply an age threshold that needs to be applied. Here I mean look: do you give us I'm satirical, you know well Petronia sincerity whose satirical in school, if you wanted to its its pornographic, I mean it's a
great and enduring peace of literature, and it is a work of pornography like it's. Ok now to assign it in high school because it's actually kind of almost hard to take. If you read it, the fifty year old man, as I did so you know I mean that these things happen, but, as I say that liberal bubble says, I'm here, five by you, you're not allowed to be horrified by me. That's that's part of it and it becomes very hard for people like Terry Mccall. If two c p the haze that is being created by the people who actually want him to succeed, and when I read yesterday here the day, rising, maybe more Comprends newsletter, but the whole reason that Mccall, if didn't see young and coming to the extent that younger was coming. Is he assumed, as no even mention, as you mentioned, that education was his issue like he owned education, he was the
the governor like this. Gonna get him elected, and the idea that the ground had shifted in the last year and a half was invest hold to him, because, like it but the else he was scoffing at all of this stuff in assuming that it was just Yahoo racist monsters who Having fits about critical race theory, which is only academic, it's so academic that you know Deb, that school board members Fairfax and Lamb counties in Virginia were imposing it on small children academic. there's a clip going around of him saying, and I think he says this. This is decision shows to people are concerned about, what's being taught in schools right down the parents of children, it shows a little he felt any of this was controversial because he does live in a bubble and in the club he says it's just as import
teaching diversity, equity, inclusion, race, gender. You know he will list lest the thing he was the Molly says. This is just as important as teaching math and reading and writing that is an uncontroversial position for someone on the left to hold. It is a highly controversial vision in the minds of a lot of this nations parents. I think revealing and all this, which is that I often thought that the Republicans pounce framing of issues was intended for the consumption of potential, democratic voters or democratic voters for them to see on vents events unfolding in a dynamic whereby Democrats region to govern well, and then republicans try to tear down all these good efforts by creating hysterical arguments In fact, it's been the consumption of Republicans pounds by governing democrats that they have come to believe this,
I think, and that has been their huge blind spot in all this and this that this applies abnormally by two think about term call if, in the journey that the Democratic Party has taken so term qualify as a Clinton, crony creation, creature, ok Bill Clinton's entire political career was predicated on his understanding that the Democratic Party had moved too far to the left. He is, first term, as governor in Arkansas went too far, the left lost the governorship came back two years later, one it again. And then started governing the state having been a Georgetown Yale liberal from this to write and Kay into office as a capital punishment supporting a fun crime hawk came into office shifted to the left,
got slammed in mid term elections and ninety ninety four and shifted back to the right. He did. what he did in Arkansas again, he said I raised your taxes too much. He said we're going to balance the budget. He said I'm not do at the arabic government is over. He said whatever was he had to say, and here is tearing the college. faced with a political circumstances, which a genuinely good politician would stand. The shifting sands under under your feet, try to move so that you know you did end up in a sin? Call again, not really no. In the end. Maybe this entire questions mood because Mccall Selwyn by five point. Some all look foolish, but if he doesn't it will be, did he learned nothing from Bill Clinton He will do really think that these rules and laws were suspended. Do you really think now that that that that
that the nation that the country, Virginia witches? Yes, now blue state, but it is like. Let is like openly left wing, but the directory describe Bill Clinton, presidential run. Ninety ninety two and ninety nine three is a mere image of what your binds presidency has been so far running on em running and receiving a mandate for moderation to return to the status quo ante pre Trump, almost no legislative mandate, because they had so little socio cultural? sure quotas and then proceeded to govern from the left and Democrats are to a man convincing themselves That the reason why there in trouble right now there's this a democratic donor in Florida whose including the New York Times extensively pounding the table over the fact that the only
reason: why tearing the call of his flailing right now is because Democrats having passed a far reaching progressive agenda in Washington. I don't think so that doesn't sound write to me and I can't imagine how that would that would remove all the obstacles that are currently before the term recalls path to the extent that they exist. Because what we're talking about here is a complete misapprehension of misunderstanding of what a voters, one with the electorate, wants right, this, here's my mentioned Mccall, if in relation to Clinton, which is to say that Clinton was an education for his party and they learned it, and then they quickly forgot it they didn't want to learn what he had to teach them and then they forgot what he had to teach them and Mccall F of all people. Should you know? like holds the Clinton standard aloft. You would
would have been here some of this if he could have, but clearly he can't cause is it because maybe you cannot there's only one Bill Clinton, there's only one guy. You can learn that lesson. Degeneration generation, particularly for goes against now, every every instinct that his party has. I just think it said an interesting contrast, and let me Tell you guys about expressly pm and let's talk about how every time you come in I too unencrypted network in cafes, hotels, airports, your my data is not secure. Any hacker on the same network can gain access to instil your personal data. That's your passwords or financial details. Whatever is in there that is theoretically protected it doesn't. much technical knowledge to hack someone? Just some cheap hardware is needed, a smart twelve year old could do it. You
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question game. We never do this and we have no idea but Democrats where Their terms are scrambling to finish the reconciliation framework in time to pass the floor, a work which isn't a bill but a framework. I don't even know what the hell that means along with the IMF, for the billion dollar infrastructure deal if we can make A quizzical expression on Noah's face right now, we'd make of fortune, I'm just saying so. The reconciliation framework and the infrastructure deal and the head of the progressive Caucus formula Jaya. Pow says they must repass together once again we're back on me. It must be passed together thing: ok, here's what she says hold them, whereas this confine again right, fine, so their racing to pass it. Meanwhile, Joe Mansion,
This is in the house and stop meanwhile Joe Mansion says I'm a man without a party I've for it there I love the Democrats. I love, Republicans, but I'm one of fleet- oh I'm among forty, eight people or didn't they don't like me. What can I do, which is his way of saying, I'm not voting for it. How many times does he have to say. So what are the odds that this is going to happen this week? Ok, that's. Why said the exit question, ok or on a scale from unto ten, ten being it this is easily and zero being. It will not pass. by the end defined. What it is that this anything ok, let's say anything to
you're here to any material because become ok, I'll. Take this. This is I'm gonna descent here, probably ok. Can you because you're probably mostly somewhere and increased Can I say it's above five: ok, only big not because I could see how it happens, because I cannot see how it happens only cause. I can't envision a second massive failure of this sort so soon after the first, what it seems to me sort of something has to happen for it. For that next are unlikely reality. Tat too failure right it just nothing would happen it and never brought the hard infrastructure building the floor, because I never had the votes so It is a framework, doesn't become law. There's no such thing as a framework.
park as I understand it. Well, that's entirely right because there was a the framework for the infrastructure bill was passed before they voted on the I'm in The house is evil right. I look again. you're getting into like getting accidental or are we going ashore congressional that what they could get closer on a framework functioning here that my ok but now, but to have my mom the credibility. The house and we have the Senate right. So everything we're talking about here relates to the house. Meanwhile, it's Tuesday, ok, the electorate Biden is living, Thursday. The election is next Tuesday Rick, Neil who runs the House Ways and Means Committee says: run widens billionaires taxes idiocy. and they're, they remember do something on rates incurred, Christendom US as you can't do something on rates, and all this I would be with a You ve been say: there's no way that they are gonna lit, they're gonna end up
in a small ruin yet again and on the other hand, I think there but a small whirlwind like I can and even more because when I read the news stories that say that they're not they all have this come on everybody, you're scrambling to finish its gonna, be like down to the wire it's gonna be sewing and there's gonna be a passive. Joe name is gonna, throw it eighty yards a just giving until the receivers hands at the end of the day, of what saying no cinemas, basically saying no, and remember they only need three Democrats, the say no in the house all anyone's focusing on is the idea that the progressed this will say now intact the infrastructure bill, Surely there are three moderate Democrats who are going to look at
two trillion dollar bill in the house and say, if I vote for this, I'm told them maybe toast anyway, so either that a vote for it and then I'm immediately gonna retire. But if I really want to stick around here, I may have to vote against this and spending you're running on how I stopped my own party from being crazy, No one is talking about that. Now, that's what it took in healthcare healthcare into those nine twenty ten. Was it hilarious you they all knew it. They all knew there were walking into a bizarre and it took him sixteen months to convince them to walk into a bizarre. You didn't six days seems unlikely. all right. So I know that I know is that what aims Find me cause no until it means you now, I'm I'm innocent
Five is to copyright is set at zero point two: five percent oil- I'm I'm gonna, go with three and a half because I just I'm still like, how can they then he buddy know how to play this game. He will like it. The lucchese spangles said after he made a matter of the rightly said, the capacity for such her tomorrow. If they wanted a fever can break, somebody could could put some premises, hand on the table Cassim. Oh style and say this is what you're gonna do or if you're gonna regret the consequences they could do that and they could have that victory to Morrow. They could have had a month ago if they want to the really that scared of the consequences of doing nothing, but I dont think progressives or that scared of the consequences of doing nothing, and example, causing cartels has said as much half a loaf is worse.
then nothing and they want accept it. It's like the great Jim diminish statement in twenty thirteen, where he would rather have thirty good Republicans in the Senate than sixty rhinos parts that out it's better for us to lose than to win says I see welcome welcome to governance in the modern era anyway. So thank you guys, we'll be back tomorrow for it. No, I ain't Christine. I'm John put words, keep the camera.
Transcript generated on 2021-10-26.