James B. Meigs joins today's podcast to discuss his two articles in the November issue of Commentary. One, "COVID and the Authorities: It's Even Worse Than We Thought," has only gained momentum over the past week as more has emerged to suggest leading figures in the public-health community might have been involved in a major cover-up at the beginning of the pandemic. The second, "How Alan Sokal Won the Battle but Lost the Science Wars," tells the story of a brilliant satirical early effort to confront Wokeness and how time has shown wokeness's horrifying strength. Give a listen.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Welcome to the Commentary Magazine Daily Podcast today, use mundane October twenty five, twenty twenty one, I'm John onwards, the other commentary magazine. We are four weeks away for weeks away from the road mayor, solid commentaries, eleventh roast our first public events in two years at a richly hotel York, you'll find out the identity of that hotel in what time to get there and went have drinks and went to have dinner. If you sign up to attend the roast by ticket etc
Spencer, Dick, and I'm telling you right now expensive. But it's also it's one of the ways that you can help. Support commentary is to buy a ticket to the roast gotta commentary. Dot org slash rose twenty one to find out more with me as always, executive editor, Ringwald Hijab, I jump Senorita Christine rose high Christine I can see it editor nor Rossman high on our agenda and fresh from the shores of the of the Hudson TAT Commentary columnist in contributor to our woke the threat issue Jim Mags, James, we max I gm. How are you I just happy to be here so Jim one of our favorite one of our favorite guess. Guest stars has not one but two pieces. In commentaries November issue his country,
Shhh until they walked a threat symposium, which is a case study of an effort to tease woken up out of existence in its crib back in the mid nineties and how a brilliant effort to wake up the acted dynamic world to the nonsense that it was about to say, although hook line thinker, was both have created a huge national sensation, but failed to do the trick, because everything that was predicted in that brilliant parity article whereabouts, talk about has come true throughout the academy and so the peace that Jim. I rode on the subject
is tired, old how Alan Sokol won the battle but lost the science wars. A brilliant parity was the harbinger of a dreadful future. That's peace number one piece number to call then the authorities is even worse than we thought and since its publication, it's now even worse than we thought it was when we title gems. Peace is even worse than we thought, so I'm not quite sure where to start. I think maybe we should start with, because, but in the end the authorities simply because people are people as as ever the mainstream media are finally caught. Me too,
some of the most behaviors that we are not part of the mainstream media have been talking about now for months and Jim in the pages of Commentaries- and this is your third piece kind of on the general subjects of our public health authorities, our national public health authorities and Anthony found she and how and how their handling of of the of covered now we are, we are tipping into some pretty poor a pretty dark waters, an alarmingly dark waters. Absolutely- and you know, sir, this pandemic. I've been writing about concepts that you have often dogma, the pad cast an elite panic and how the authorities often try to catch their statements to the public in certain ways It's too to make sure that we don't all run off, do something crazy or they think it's ok to this kind of shade. The truth. I think they d
who played a lotta wrists early on through a kind of a false sense of being careful. But What we found out in the recent months is way worse than that. We're talking about real, deep dishonesty, not just about what to do about the pandemic. But what the an age the national Institutes of Help was doing in terms of research Verona is in the years leading up to the pandemic. A lot of the palm remember, I kind of heated exchange, pain, ran, Paul and Anthony thought she about whether the agency funded so called gain a function. Research where you take a virus, its suspected of maybe having a potential of affecting people in an you. You tweet. The genome in such a way to make it more infectious menu test that more infectious pathogen end.
might have been bred to have lunch tissue that similar to that of humans. Well, founded night it, but it is still denying it in effect, and yet the arm We now know, through a series of weeks and things released through the Freedom of Information ACT, that the national units of health was deep and funding this guy research and some of this research was in fact going on at the wool Hon instead of their ology in the years leading up to two, the the On a covert that doesn't mean we proved that dad carbon nineteen is the product of such research. The only research relieving conserve confirm so far involves different kinds of viruses that are closely closely related to Sars common to buy it. Thirdly, the pattern is damaging and was even more damaging. Is the seamen
a coordinated effort of public health officials and some leading experts in the virology community, to not only denied it David more than anything like this, but a really try to to denigrate any. One who raised this possibility that this kind of research had been going on, and there is in very, very fishy here that I think we will be looking into an talking about for years to come here. I just what I just want to point out. Add to this. That the information that is now coming out, particularly as relates to the confrontation between doktor, found she and Senator Paul during that hearing or fancied, lost his temper, uncharacteristically right he's been unbelievably kind of phlegmatic war,
do you know unemotion. Emotions are the right word, but but but good cheerful and Anne and hard to throw right hard to kind of shake off his general attitude, but a ramp. All really did lost his temper and it now it's hard not to look at this, something that he lost his temper because ran Paul is dancing around an area that scared the crap out of foul. And so Brianna Keller of of CNN, who was I guess the morning house to CNN tweeted the following on Saturday, I believe, or maybe Friday, Maquinna Friday Quote: Doktor Fauci, American Public health health vessels. But to answer questions about oversight of this? U S funded research. No public official is immune from scrutiny.
senator Paul a blow. Theatre of misinformation is certainly not the man for that job now. This is interesting in two ways it strikes me, one of which is centre. Paul was the only man. For that job, because he was the only man doing that job. I didn't notice periodical chewing it or anybody on CNN doing it. It was ran Paul who raised the issue in a public forum so saying that he is not the man for the job is a fastened being indictment of kellers own behaviour and that of her network and that of the mainstream media in general. And secondly, where was all the scrutiny? Yes, public officials should be subject to scrutiny. Try to be a person subjecting ran Anthony, found she d scrutiny, who would not necessarily part and parcel of the kind of libertarian
the public. Health authorities are awful crap and I'm not gonna vaccinate because there are lying to me crowd who, in the kind of establishment, has subjected Anthony, found she toy moments so, me let alone you know, sort of. Like said, hey, Maybe we need to look into the question of whether or not american Risa monies from the. U S, government completely inadvertently may have ended up paying or the having playing some role in research that went wildly awry and and that through no fault of anybody's, conscious workings led to this catastrophe. So I just thought innocent
in this way, because I know fan of ran Paul's weave published very hostile stuff about ran, particularly on foreign policy, as we use on Israel and the like. But for this to be the subject on which you should say, ran pulse shouldn't be allowed to open his mouth when he was the only person who opened his mouth is pretty cuts, but As my grandmother would say, it's a virgin Republicans pounds you now. Here's this guy raising an issue. Well, we have to. there's somebody to the issue, but but you know we it somehow in approach red or in bad taste for him to focus in on it, but the point you made it where was CNN on ass. This was one of the really He staggering things about this entire story, going back to the early months of the pandemic was too
aid at the media carried water for for various officials and others who wanted to portray this call the possibility of a as some kind of a right wing met conspiracy, theory and they are what the officials it was was bad and media took farther. I mean you know when there somebody would make a statement that its journey not confirmed that it how it's much more likely to form a natural source. All the self appointed fact checkers would then double down and say this is ridiculous. Conspiracy, theory, and so the fact that Paul was was pushing on this point. What research has an age funded. That was exactly what they wanted to cover up, whether or not there was a lab lake. The very fact that day were involved in this controversial research into ruin to table a bit by
in the Obama administration, there had been a move to put some guy, bells around his research. Everybody knew that this is a really dangerous idea to take a potential pathogen, make it deadlier make it more infectious tested in my lab everyone knows, there is a risk that somehow that pathogen began I could get out I didn't start worker and animal might escape it might come out in in in in a wastewater there's a lot of different ways than a pathogen can escape that kind of facility sobering. dangerous. They were trying to put limits around it and what appears to happen is that there were some some kind of subtle Lee definitions of data function. There are various ways for the people who want to keep finding this research to kind of putting the boundaries of the restrictions, and that seems to have been going on for several years, leading up to this.
So is our D. The idea that this is it maybe they can decide here, be no doubt that they gain a frontier research was totally ridiculous idea was. It was important for them, I think not tender public talk about this to spur conspiracy theories and stop sought in effect naked. I heard decay There's a secret in order to prevent people from coming up with conspiracy theories It really does look fishing areas as February first meeting in two thousand and twenty. Are you an early months of the pandemic, going into the maiden of involving thought? She had other figures it out and I many people in the biology community going into the media law them saying well, the other some feet So this virus it looked like they might be engineered. This is problematic. Let's bigger
coming out of the meeting they all were unify that this was a crazy idea that had to be suppressed as quickly as possible. What are they about an hour, maybe what was the evidence, was so convincing to them. still no now and they ve done everything they could to prevent us from known, a species. Heavily panic, and my concern moving forward is that their reluctance to be truthful here and there that's their reprehension about have received value. For research associated with game on research is going to end up Anathematizing research and make it possible to get public funding for something about which has the utility, albeit hard, to defend a global. And possibly resulting from an outbreak in a lab of an engineer by us to talk case them in our environment, but that's it
that could result in a grand. Certainly invasions really will have to put it very well in this work. Will, I think, be people being cautious about gain a frontier researches? I mean I don't know enough about it to defend it. I know it. there's some leading scientists who are deeply concerned about it, but I would say we have to balance the potential benefits against the potential risks and the potential risks seeing extremely high. Ah it out, if you know what you're. An engineered. A pathogen, that's more like, like murders, funded with a thirty percent fatality right and that got out went around the run is just that the consequences are almost unimaginable, so I did we need to be cautious about it, but I think there's an even bigger problem here, which is the public's gonna, be distrustful of all scientific experts and all
health officials and we're gonna set ourselves so far back on in terms of being able to turn to science turned to experts, get some guidance on important issues is now that everybody thinks that their line about everything, because they were you know yet. As I said it is, you can't expect people not to if you dont want people to believe in a conspiracy theories. You have to be transparent and they haven't been and they ve back. They worked really hard to to marginalize anybody who raised these questions even in the scientific community, so we shouldn't necessarily trust them in. It's not good enough for people to say trust the science when some of the key people are hard doing everything they can to push certain uncomfortable
that's under the wrong, since my colleague came out, there have been three more revelations. It just hammer this home. One was: In September, the NIH age, under freedom of Information ACT, request finally released report from the Eagle Help alliance people befallen remembered. That's the group that funnels that that funnels, allow this funding to Wuhan and other labs takes government granted and redistribute them. They had been funded. Some research in will harm in twenty two thousand and eighteen now that information has that report has come out. Another report came out. It was a grand proposal from here how does one that went to DARPA, ah to do research on with called deferring cleavage sides of people who are really deepen? The waves are uncovered no. This is that they are part of this by a protein that, in
This is the virus is ability to get into ourselves, so they are proposing doings. The kind of research. The people suspect or worry was done it in as a kind of a function function, research to make the the Sars the two virus more infectious. If that helps That grant wasn't approved, but the fact that they were asked to do this very kind of work. After all, blandly say nothing like this. It happened or would happen, was actually study to everyone and then just it a couple of days ago, the age sent a letter to Congress admitted they d been finding this kind of fun research without using the word, and that this research and the research had resulted in a more infectious pathogenic that that made the mice that receded sicker than they were. Then they would have been
so, but in the process that letter they're kind of crossing the Eagle Help alliance under the bastards evaded, inform us properly, so it's at with each passing weak. They this looks worsened worse than the it's almost like Watergate, where you know yet one study, discovery after another over weeks and months that it and every time they make the people that centre of best look, let s honest and and much more subtle,
back that they knew a lot more than they were saying they were pretty hard to make sure that we wouldn't know about it. Jim one of the important things you bring up in the column you wrote about. This is that in some of the documentation, that's been made public as a result of fire requests, there's page after page of blacked out material which, as you know, only adds to conspiracy, theorizing suspicion and, as you ask what what could be in a lab research report or- or you know, funding report that would require This extensive blacking out, it's crazy. You look at this one. If I request. I think this one, this from the inner savage which has done a really good job of pursuing this information.
One of these requests was for the notes from that February, first meeting that I mentioned eventually after over a year, they got them. and page after page was just black locked in other, be a name at the top. Somebody said something then thirty blacked outlines page after and this is not something like FBI. Ire CIA Investigation, where they might be disclosing sources and methods, and it might be one of you now give away. People. People were working with overseas. This is public health. These are scientists being funded by by grants that are not secret and you know The- the idea that this information, where these people are discussing a global health emergency and yet it has to be kept secret from the public, its Happily staggered and I'm this is
Getting a lot of attention. The mainstream crass, after really wanted to why this story denigrate anybody who pursue destroy. Finally, over the last seven or eight months, are the major process come around on this to a large extent in and that people are looking into it? but I'm still kind of strap, it's not even more controversial. In all day, the millions of people have died from this factor is we had this collection of experts got together to figure out where it came from and they came out of that meeting, basically determined not to let anybody look into it.
As we are land line, that's where you have a line and in the column that I think is it's gonna, be right in passing, but I think it gets to the heart of the trust issue that you ve got lined the public trust, resale rights, public about a public health, a group of public health experts who can't discuss what they're doing with the public and enter Johns earlier point. It absolutely was it. It was literally ran Those job to ask questions. Does he has oversight power over those agencies, but I think that that what a lot of this in particular exe, This is far more than even the kind of no back and forth about masking unlocked downs, and what not? This exposes that, in the mind of public health, Iraq, bureaucrats public means one way. It means them telling the public what to do and the public having no way to respond or no right to respond or to ask questions and that exposure, I think, ultimately, will be healthy. If we can work our way through it in and have more transparency as you,
but right now just really makes people angry and it should be to make some people are angry and then also makes other people angry, because a bunch of people really understandably, I think I want to believe that what they are being told is the truth. The middle of the worst public health crisis. That we have ever lived through. It is destabilizing and terrifying to think that they have been active. the misleading, not only on the matter the masking and all of that, all of which we still haven't quite reckoned with the threat to public confidence in in in public health from the fact that day,
switch gears and said, don't wear mass than where mass than I was eighteen months ago. People are still in a very weird state about masking what kind of ass to where what what they're talking about. All of that, because it seems like what was said at the beginning, seen truer and what they have now told as a matter of absolute religious fact now and so people. But people want to believe in Anthony Fauci and want to believe in their local public health officials. A lot of people, not not a lot of you know, Terry, Miss Republican Times, but others, because they're scared their scare there its views there unsure and you want to be to say look. This is not my field, its their field, Theirs where a mask I'm gonna, where a mask until they sat months, was to wear masks. I'm gonna not see my parents until they,
they took it ass, you, my parents and then, if you back back Phil at it, turns out that there were some kind of a meeting of the mines in February, twenty twenty to try to stuff into cabinet, drawer doubts and misgivings and fears about the origins of the virus, and what that that might mean. the long term. Consequences of this are just we don't even know it's somewhere down- they'll say to us- look you're gonna have to do acts in order to prevent why an million people in this country are gonna, say I'm not falling for it again, even though if they say it the next time, they might be saying it completely you out in ingenuously and with just
it all total wished to help people in any way possible, and that I mean that's, I think. the incredible danger of this decision to kind of involve themselves geopolitically in the idea that you know there was no lab leak, it has had to come from hitting a bad or something like that because and if you actually That's the more one thinks about it. The more comic this is. There are two possibilities: there's a lab sitting in the middle of war on that is doing this research or an individual person, a bat from a wet market, and- and how millions of people are dead around the world? What just as a matter of logic, seems to me the likelihood of the two scenarios yeah it's it's not the items razors like atoms, yet I hope we can it's pretty with it. I just want to pull back for a second and say
this topic address you. If you're interested in covered nineteen, our future and where everything is in a pandemic, our friend and sinners postpone upon cast this week is exceptional. Just did it, you can I downloaded it wherever you get your fine podcast. His interview this week is with Nicholas Christophe ass. The Yale Doktor professor author of the book, Apollos, arrow and Christophe, is takes account global view of how We are to getting out of the pen that MIKE and I got to say it's kind of distressing cuz. He says we are kind of not really knowing we not nearing the end. We're not even at the end of the beginning, and he kind of says, with everything going on and everything that's going to happen, we're not really going to emerge the pandemic era, probably until twenty twenty four. That was it it's worth hearing. Why? I'm not sure he's right?
and I mean I hope, is not right, but he also he's a man of the laughed goes very hard at the very public health authorities that we're talking about here about how they miss mishandled and misled people, and the long term consequences of that too. That's Dan Seymour's post grown up cast with Nicholas Christophe, whom you may remember as being the Yale professor who came under one of the earliest while monstrous woke attacks, he was a master of a college. Soon. I can call the masters anymore, the master of a college with me college and his wife said I email saying: go, have fun on Halloween and don't worry about the political effects of your costumes, at which point students when crazy inside screaming calling them racist, doing whatever and and
getting to the famous quote where somebody said to restock his face. I dont want to hear about your facts. I want to talk about my so that this is a guy who has suffered from his wife who suffered for being commonsensical people in it in a world gone mad in our woke topic here, and this is a really great podcast dancing or just postpone the podcast with Nicholas restocking. Go! Listen to it today Ok, so let's move on to welcome this and Alan Circle, because this is a great great story quarter century. ago people made dimly. Remember this, but Jimmy serve, tell it beautifully and bring it up to the present day about sort of like that that that the comic the comic tragedy, that is, that is the AL and Social,
Percy. Yet it was so much fun to dive back into this job. I went to college as to do during the kind of peak of the era where postmodernism in its various forms. It just was just raging through the academy. Inserting the parents come imperative sure associate by g and following the lead of people like like Michel Foucault, Jack Derrida, all everyone, all the cool professors were trying to deconstruct everything and all the coolest, often enough coolest people I knew, who spoke french cigarettes and and and took while the cool classes were deeply. Imagine this this world view that was tense. They skeptical of of our normal definitions of reality. It was,
very much inspired by Marxism, but it wasn't always explicitly marxist and the idea Everything we think about the world is actually shaped by by power by colonialism by capitalism. So we can't really, trust any perceptions are any facts, and that was a notion that was that was spread and by the Ninetys it was starting to spread out of the even departments, were strictly our academics, who would define themselves as postmodern end in other fields and around that time allow. The postmodernism were also embracing
what they saw the type of silence, especially the French, both matters they would quote Heisenberg and other scientists and as many justifying their their abuse, that objectivity was a farce and that everything subjective and on and on so and so on- was a professor of mathematics in physics at an why you, and he was fine. he's a very lefty guy himself, so he bought some of the backlash against this was overblown and- and you now sure people are always gonna complained of Somebody'S- you know mentions marks Something then he started looking into it. He said it was way worse than he thought he was reading. All these posts matters papers. There were raffer reference in a concepts from physics in that mattocks and getting it totally absurdly wrong. So he decided
I really need to raise attention to this, but if I do right in article saying this is bad. Nobody's gonna nobody's gonna pay attention to my my article. They came up with this brilliant idea of writing a fake postmodern article and get trying to get it published one of these journals and basically what he did was he took all the what he saw the most absurd ridiculous quotations from leading postmodern thinkers there. It is to physics and and and science and stronger- altogether in an article with superstructure of of the language of the time and an centred around to get published an it's when you, today it's really. If you remember that world, it's really the article is, is funny on one level in panic, read the on another level I meet. Let me just the just. The title of the of the paper was so great transgressed.
and the boundaries towards a transformative, criminal acts of quantum gravity, if you remember that led the way to everyone. All these are academics, talk that catches it perfectly raw. Every articles, I was no toward this fat, and so he got this paper at least in a journal social taxed in the day, he's before it was good. He published some other journals actually figured out that there was. This thing was a hoax and he was so cool was able to negotiate with this guy and his. I forget what the it was: an academic publication that they would withhold exploding until after the the so called Oaks article was published and then so called would, in their pages, admit to the to the to the scheme and kind of come clean, and so his
his hopes. Article did see Brent added came out in ninety ninety seven and caused a huge stir. All the postmodern is really upset that its eddied Miss characterize them. It was written the New York Times in the mind, of course, as all these, these these thinkers are big celebrities in France and it really kind of ignited a bomb under this this field, but the effects of that were not as long lasting as one might have thought can I can I jump at and say I was a grad student in history when this all happened,
and I had been assigned one of the books. You talk about Thomas Kuhn, structure of scientific revolutions and in the humanities you correctly point out how much science and be there really was. There had been math and me when I first started grad school, a lot of statistics. You know we were all being made to do social science statistics regression analyses, but then it became about science, and it was this idea that if you could deconstruct those those principles like gravity, then really everything fair game- and it was- I remember, sitting in seminars. I would often have seminars and feminists theory, which included historian sociologists and women studies graduate students and the army. It's about reality? That would break out or a weird precursor and when the silk all hoax hit. It was very gratifying for those of us who were confused by some of the claims that were being made about how the humanities could deconstruct anything so really and- and you really do as John said you capture that moment in
Academic history very well remain with fragile use, untasted exams. Envy applies just about every authoritarian, idiotic, the twentieth century, right, they'll, draped themselves in this, the police lava jargon of scientific inquiry, but when you get downright into a dialectical, materialism, that's so you can't say its assets, because its scientific doesn't work. He was one of the reasons that the joke is so fantastic. Is that the title itself is nonsense and any Anne, and it shows either that cynicism or the idiocy or the or the were the just. The wild laziness are the people who accepted it for publication. There is no such thing as quantum gravity, let alone,
Herman Nudists of quantum gravity or the idea, the gravity is a construct because by the resignation grammar there is such things. Quantum gravity, I'm sorry. So there is such a thing is one to gravity, gravity cannot be a construct because I work on that. Half of us would be floating on the ceiling or flying into the sun so that the article itself, the gobbledygook of the articles contained within the title of the article and and we move on from there it sort like the minute that you would say, ok will diminish the that an editor who is a serious person saw the article, they will be like. Will this guy's crazy? We can accept this. Was he and so the very fact that the very fact that survived and its survived p a blue and all that is an ivy dumping limit value- was evident. This was not actually appear right, no, no you're, not
right. The additive learn editors riot, and these guys we're superstars in this field are so you know was a bit like Stanley run away from from guinea. Frederick James stand a famous marxist, literary credit. These guys, the top names in the feel the fact they couldn't red death and not only was it kind of absurd on its face, but but inside the peace he dropped. All of these funny little little jokes about physics in mathematics that anybody who was well versed in this field, would have caught them an end. They didn't even occur to them say hey. Maybe we should have a physicist, Reed S, dinner, just a double jacket brass, they didn't do that by just outcome. Just I need to bring about cameo from from last week. If I could, because last week
quoted notorious line from the nineteen sixties by a critic named Ellen Willis, who said good. Writing is counter evolutionary Ellen Willis was the wife of Stanley. Iran awaits. the editor of social text. So that this, the destructive quality of this one couple cannot get cannot be overstated. Shall we say, but of course, as I said, the tragedy that you lay out is that so goals. Peace was a ripple out. What was a was a ripple or of a momentary that would you call it always very dam in a stream that has led inexorably to the present moment in which you know you can have the call Hannah Jones creating this
vague history of the United States that she herself defends by saying all history as a vague merited. Why can I have my fake merited and then getting at you know getting a an offer: freight tenured position without review just start off with a web email at a major american public, virtually while saying that her was not historic valid because there is no such thing as historical validity. Just as there is no such thing as as gravity one point at one other lasting mentions from last week, because just in case, we think that this is. This was a serve a thing of of of a weird moment. There was this astonishing quote in the New York Times relating to this cancellation of
the speech at MIT that was gonna, be given by the universe, Chicago's Doran Abbot for being here for saying that people should advance on the basis merit and on the basis of their of their race or gender and speech was cancelled and was defended by the chairman of the GEO Sciences Department at Williams, College, Phoebe Cohen, who said this quote this idea of intellectual debate and rigour where's the pinnacle of internet Tourism comes from a world in which white men dominated now there was a point at which I would say anyone saying that would be our circle that this would. You could only say this as a as they reductio ad absurdum of this view, and it must be a parity, but it ain't no parity yeah. He was
so weird about the essay is, he was making fun of some most extra being an outlandish notions in this world, and yet, when you indeed. Today it all sounds familiar. Let me, let me just read you one wine from his from his inner doc, he's busy saying why we you'd have science is all of science, is is not based on fact, but just a while I'll bring it here. the end. We can only conclude that physical reality no less than social reality. Is it bottom, a social and linguistic construct that scientific knowledge and quote far from being objective reflects an codes. The Domini in reality and power. Relations of the culture that produced at that time after that worldview than not shall nutshell. Everything is about idiotic and power and dominance. Errand
Our view of reality is shaped by those things so which is very bad a lot to the marxist idea, false consciousness? But then what happened in the aid night, isn't be. That idea went farmers and the marxist idea of class and invaded feminism critical race theory. A critical legal studies, all these other queer studies, all these other fields- and they all took this idea that, everyone's view of reality is is influenced by these. These agent, power relations in the dominance of capitalism and colonialism, and you mentioned, is the science envy Christine, so There was all this work to kind of dismantled her deconstruct the notion of objective facts or reality in though,
world where these these ideologies working. But then you had these scientists over there who seem to be chugging along our establishing hard facts about the world and an end, the universe. and that just was intolerable, and so if there was some way to say that science to is not is not based on anything solid. Then that would really be a bit that's exactly why they loved Thomas Cute. has so much. So let me step back yet again to talk to you about our friends at the Acting institute and their podcast. Acting wind, refugees and border walls woke celebs and socialist cheeks social engineering and covered lockdown. It's easy to get wound up over what's happening in our country in the world. That's why it's time for actin unwind, a weekly,
I don't discussion, tackling current events from the act, an institute for the study religion and liberty. Every Monday join host era cone and acting in stood experts, including Doktor Samuel Gregg, Robin Roberts, Rico doktor, Stephen Barrows and more in this weekly audio public square, where news politics, religion, culture, meat for an on when conversation on a frame virtuous society acted on one explain the news of the weak through the Acting institute, unique perspective, connecting good intentions with sound, economics as we work to promote, asked, and April, society that is secure, free and virtuous, one characterized by individual liberty and sustained by religious principles to some bribed to active on wine visit. Acting up, Org Slash, calmed Parent Research ACT and unwind an apple podcast, Google Pike S modifies
you are aware replying to find partners are available that acting dot org slash commentary to subscribe. I just so. I think the most instructive thing for me and chilling thing about the so called hopes and and everything that that that followed is that it showed that exposing the the nonsense of of of postmodern is thought doesn't impede its march at all.
You can lay it bare completely and and it doesn't make a difference, people will still defend it and say you got it wrong and I say it's instructive because that's kind of been my experience and I think a lot of people's experience in arguing against its sir present day form as a manifest and wokeness and it kind of means. You can't win arguments against it- that you're sort of wasting your because the the the claims made on on the side of of which is to say woke. This now remain on falsified, or so you can hope to expose it in order to get other onlookers to be thoroughly sick of it. But but but you can actually logically talk someone out of it. That's exactly right and that this kind of the point
I think of this whole project. If you can say that will fit veto scientists don't really know much about the world is Heisenberg said there was an uncertainty principle. Thomas Jones had scientists all just rely on paradigms which her part, which are socially constructed so site, Does it really isn't built on a solid foundation, so On what grounds do you criticise my my client? You you don't really have. There are no solid facts. You can cling to to make a counter argument, everything's, just an interpretation of the text of the edges. reminded of this when I saw after there is no reconciliation deal there is this Dean of a yo see making this speech out outside of Congress and there a bunch of young.
a sea supporters standing around with banners in their masks and heard. The point of her speech was to explain why nothing is in fact better than something, Why why getting nothing is baroness, which in itself is a kind of like anti logical, mathematic proof. You know that that then you know lays out the sort of the case for an fur on falsified built. It's like you know it saying, don't believe you're you're your senses, don't don't do the math take my word for it. Nothing is better than something- and you know, she's, sort of applauded and cheered on and us that that that's that's kind of a post modernist that it that the fact
You said take my word for it. That's actually the key one of the key postmodern victories and it now stretches far beyond academia and that's that, if any, if, if even science can be deconstructed, the only thing that matters is ones lived experience. My truth, that's where my truth started. It started in those in those deconstruction us we're just looking attacks, don't be alarmed french theories which have been having a really kind of horrifying trickled down the fact that the culture email I mean this is it. This is a struggle of three hundred. Your struggle in western civilization or longer that you know is about the corruptions of philosophical thinking or the ability to wear the hunger to privilege, you know the thought expire It's over reality dating back to the you know, incredibly great Anna,
Doubt in Boswells Life of Johnson Web, whereby Boswell Johnson go to listen to a bishop, George Barkley, where they do have a conversation talking about Bishop Barclays, as as, as Basel puts it ingenious, sophistry to prove the non existence of matter right, which is like creatures like gravity being a constant and that everything in the universe is merely ideal. I observed that, though we are satisfied. His doctrine is not true. It is impossible to refute. It aims point right. I never shall forget the alarm. pretty with which Johnson answered striking his foot with mighty force against a large stone till he rebounded from it. I refute it. Thus,. A hundred years after that, Margaret Fuller, the transcendentalists philosopher,
Announced after a lifetime of cogitation that she accepted the universe to which, Sir to which Samuel Carlyle said famously by God. She better. We are now in in twenty one, and we are being told yet again, Syria play that reality is a construct. Nothing matters. Nothing is real. All that matters is assertion and the only thing that can refute it- is kicking a stone and feeling pain in your foot, and you know that's where we get to this whole notion.
I think, comes out of this symposium orange him, which is so much of it is what what am I crazy? Who are these people? What are they doing? What the hell are they talking about, which is essentially what Alan Circle was trying to reveal with his hoax, and it turned out that the hunger to privilege- as I say, raw specious intellection over them over the you know, there were few that the reputation vs stone turn out to be more powerful than the refutation by kicking a stone there, and there is also the fact that that there's another profession that that had a kind of envy they had theory envy and that's journalists, journalist embrace this. This veneer of look at we understand. Larcom, look, I know who Foucault is. I'm gonna just insert some of this rhetoric into my discussion of very complicated issues like race and gender and and equality.
so that I think also again talk about a veneer of a veneer of intellectual street crime that has unfortunately become all too common. Among our journalists, to I mean there One thing where Noah, I think no one knows answers here, really do get to the heart of which is that, in the end, if we were talking about is a kind of vulgar, popularized, Marxism, theoretically, more system has a you know, has a construct about how to live a better life and all that philosophically, but really it's about power, it's about the assertion of power. And in the end we were talking about woke ism. What we are talking about is the idea that white people had power, and now it is time for other people to have our and anything that remove and powers a zero sum game. According to this theory, so anything that removes power from white people in
Intellectual rigour, as defined by Phoebe Cohen of Williams. College, is fine, because all that matters is power, and wipe your dominate with power, and now it's time for other people. This is the successor of the ology. The Wesley ANG refers to other people, get to take power from them, and that is a justification. love itself and all this other stun, an intellectually satisfying willpower famously capricious say you have to establish a theory on which that assumption of power and walk out of space. Which is currently history, bilateral materialism, cultural revolution, men in a mouse, China, all that stuff was dedicated to establishing a pseudo scientific basis, rationale for entirely arbitrary, ass right, but again it's because you gotta say something right him and that's part of the point here as you. You know you don't just you don't just say:
if you're in the mafia you're like ok, I shot you now, I'm the dawn, so that's not quite away works here. You have to offer some kind of a manifesto couple, a page the documentation of Europe, of your views and findings them and, in the end, it could be Alan Circle, but Nazi, but but completely serious. It doesn't that's all point for as long as it argued what it argued on it, Stanley Stanley, IRAN what's didn't, know the difference between a being a parity in not being apparently because it was Para being the idea that all that matters was this. Power in reality is just to construct an that's fine, even if, in the end, even if social doesn't mean it, it's it's fine, which is tat because, of course, this is where that you get intellectual, desiccation and right, because.
In our view, if your choosing enough so the classic thing are you would you go to a doctor who you know like? Would you got away, Twenty five, thirty years from now, if things progress the way their progressing, our people going to feel it. Their doctors. The way people feel about the drop their doctors. Now, if, if there are no tests There are no standards if people are served, you know given are accredited as mental medical professionals, by dint of their their race agenda or something like that. Are people gotta go a doctrine. Buxton say here. Take this pill it'll make you feel better. Are they gonna maybe that's the other night about that's the other thing about the sort of the serbian Well that reassuring in here as if it is true and Sylvia, then everybody understands the dance
you understand the dialogue gauge, how things stand, concepts to which you have expressed feel tee to and then also you develop of reactor at that allows you to evade those kind of social prescriptions for proper civic and political health and discourse that you can correct. Wildly understand that thing wrong back. So there was, This discussion here, doktor ghastly policies leading the noxious stuff about trainers and read and write the financial enough, but they literally used to be able to navigate that's what I'm not I'm your now, assuming that the doctor that you're talking about his competence, I told you about the desk that leads to a world in which, if people are chose? to do things like are you gonna have like an air space engineer who doesn't understand math. Well, how do you get an aerospace engineer under
dense mass. If you're not allowed to test the map of the. If the essay tea in the math achievement becomes an optional and if the thing that gets you graduate from MIT is your race and not your gender, and then is that guy get designs shuttle it you can fly on that plane. Are you gonna get you gonna take advice from doktor at a medical school that that graduates people according to their some Jem. This is life or death. We're talking about here is not only that it's one thing to be social philosopher it, and why you and it's another to be somebody It was handing out medicines that can kill you that illegally in that direction? Twenty thirty years after the chinese hypersonic missile of fleet will interrupt her arrest, our progress, Jim, I'm sorry. I keep interrupting you both you know for a long time. There is a feeling that yeah, that's crazy. Stop is going on in our departments of complex and and and it's it's kind of silly, but it
basically harmless and people graduate and get on the real world and, and then you, grow up, and they move on other things and of course, you'll. Never gonna see this kind of thing in the chemistry Department of the physical harm or any you know any place. The things that bit the world really relies on, but in fact, You have seen these things migrate into those departments, partly because these theory so empowering for people to take over institutions out. You know to challenge the people in charge. The institutions are from below we ve stayed how weak kneed people running these academic institutions usually are so these these ideology. filtered out into other departments, but you see engineering departments talking about the native to critique,
You don't power relations in an engineering. You see, you certainly succeeded in coming to fruition in health care and day and in the power of of transit. Ideology, as you know, has nominated that corner that feel so. These things they started small have a way of spreading out both you now both in ways that we see it in ways that are kind of underground that we don't see right. You know you had in I gave itself. Are you at the beautiful apple, the devout apple, for whatever with his beautiful glass again. Do everything like that and then you're walking around you drop it in the glass shatters and then you're kind of screwed right. So you know you gotta have a protective case can be very thin, get it nice. It falls two sets of a little rim, and then your your glass protected right going on I'm without expressway pianos, like using your smartphone without a protective case, most of the time,
I'll be fine, but all it takes. Is one accident drop on solid, concrete to make you wish you had protected yourself every time you connect to an unencrypted network, Your online data is not secure. Any hacker on the same network can gain access to and steal your personal data. It doesn't take much technical knowledge to hack someone. Just some cheap hardware is neither a smart twelve year old can do it, and hacker can make up two thousand dollars per person selling personal info on the dark web. So what is express Vps? Do it it? It creates a secure encrypted tunnel between your device. In the interim. Hackers can still your sensitive data it'd take a hacker with a supercomputer of over a billion years to get past. Express Europeans encryption. You fire up the app click one button to get tat it is so easy to use our works on all devices. So
secure online data today by visiting expressly pm dot com, slash commentary, that's expiry s, S bp and dot com, slash commentary, and you can get an extra three months free expressed. We pm dot com, slash. Commentary. So yeah we're talking about it, this Toby in future, and yet, on the other hand, you know it's very hard to believe that this stuff is gonNA is going to survive the challenge of. It's you now collisions with reality of the sort that I am talking about. Like tat, people are given me. Well, trained doctors and we're gonna need arrow wherever the nuclear physicist, still we're gonna need aerospace, engineers and all of that, and somehow they will all get the training that they need were making it harder and harder and harder for that to happen or what recycling or we are going to create in extreme Aristotle
for of knowledge and merit, in which case there will be served secret training facilities. Everybody else is gonna serve like end up in this weird gala, Terry World of nonsense, and you know couple thousand people a year. It's like Indian, higher education. You know there's three: there are these two or three great colleges or high schools in India and three hundred and fifty thousand people apply for three hundred slots because they know if they get in they will you know that they're their future will be assured. They will actually get a real education that that could be the. It states in some fashion, rather than even though its people when they get into the what is now these so called real world, they will still have an opportunity, cost it. They are required to pay in terms of their time and their research. However skilled they are, they have to sit through those diversity, equity, inclusion seminars. They have to speak the language, the deed, mental labour, of making sure you.
walking. That line is is growing by the day and I think it's the opportune I'm glad that no mention mentioned that the chinese hypersonic missile, like that's what we're not doing without I am that we are spending on all of this nonsense, and I think that that's really practical thing that most Americans understand when they hear that they're like will, that doesn't seem smart and any other Jim you you have been. You have been detailing this world as the former editor of popular mechanics that gonna make sense that this is the world is, of course, was Barbara Mechanics, it's a mature, it's it's! It's the World people who build ham radios and who did you know that as popular make it who amateur scientists? Non Granada who do these things out of love and not out of career ambition, necessarily and you ve been telling these stories in part the the stories that we ve been talking about. We talk about the top about called and move on, and all of that that the research that has come to accept
they had. That is now exposed. All of this, comes from the world of amateurs. Isn't that interesting one of them really striking things about what we know about the potential firm lab lake. Did not come from leading institutions fact they were doing everything they could to stop anywhere from asking the questions it didn't mostly come from reading journalistic organizations. It came from a few scientists who were operating kind of you know Taking career rest raises questions. It came from some journalists who were who were not at the New York Times, though the Wall Street Journal the Washington Post Bud their Nicholson: Baker, the novelist Ronan apiece in New York magazine vanity, Fair, did a big great peace, but then, if there is not thinking thinking, you're gonna go for cutting edge science, reporting and anti.
Oh renegades, I towards the New York Times, wound up. You know I'm writing on medium doing some excellent work that those that the handful of of Does pieces from outside the mainstream was what kept kind of broke. The dam on us a little bit and it's really striking. We might not even be talk of collaborative wasn't for people willing to break with the consensus and that's exactly the opposite of how we would want things to work. We would want the people who are in charge of our safety in these institutions to be extremely jury. About this question and they weren't lay and they weren't should read. It was not just a lack of interest, but it was active. Suppression
and you know that this, I guess, gets to the point which is gets back to Brianna Keller and all ass witches people who are into who are seeking their advancement in institutions that are themselves corrupted, have no choice but to follow the dominant opinion or or they will find themselves in career peril. Journeys world I mean. No one knows you said about it. The people will learn to speak the language, though there learn to navigate and still get their work done. That's true to a large extent,
my boy, it's like living a double life. You know when you read memoirs of people in the Soviet Union, how they had to put bitch you no kind of police they're on their own speech and even among their places, confidence it very difficult to really liver of full intellectual life. That way right. You know this week, I should say I think, on Thursday, the first there Friday, the second quarter. GDP, numbers are going to come out and our third quarter Jude with numerous excuse me and bring this up, because I want to talk to about our friends at the bonds and group that three billion dollar under management financial services company run by a friend, David Bonds- and this is a week ago, subscribed to dividend, cafe: dot com and the disease, dot com, the DC to data come his daily news, comes on around six eastern time
doing what happened the markets this week that number this is a huge huge moment. This could be a hinge moment in american politics at the present moment and going forward. We had almost seven percentage points of growth in the second quarter, and everyone is saying that that is going to halved or worse the consequences. The fall out from this in relation to a growing inflation and the supply chain, this continuing baffling employment problem of all these jobs being unfilled, and all of that this is where this is, what markets are gonna be dealing with. This is what we are all going to be dealing with in terms of figuring out what to do with our money. In hand, invest our money and where America is going this week this week, you wanna go: go to dividend, cafe, dot com and subscribe to David bonds to
letters to see what's going on as we approach it and read his analysis when the Genie it number is out and to see what on earth was was to do if it comes in bad, as some people fear that it's gonna come in. So that's the DC today, the cafe dot com from the bonds and group, the added to the intellectuals, weary of the financial services and management business. So are we we gotta, go Jim your you actually arm and optimum. I mean I'm, I'm I'm going in the past, stick Spangler decline of the west direction. That is not your general I would say, but out so what? What? What? What gives you after is it just? Is it just a matter of body chemistry or what gives you optimism
that's a good question. I think it is very much in my nature to do so to be an optimist and a sceptic of of gloomy gloomy analysis, but my optimism got tempered a lot under cover you now I thought I did I committed, as I never maple, he wrote there, but I thought we'd be out of it in six months and I knew I had. No evidence for that, but it just seemed unlikely to me. So you know I've learned, There are some of that optimism and and I'd think when I look at the state of are the intellectual health of of our country, our institutions yeah, I'm I'm having harder time being optimist,
Dick And- and I worry that in all, as I was saying earlier ideas, it were once part of sort of a small pockets of of elites. In you know, at Yale and an Cornell places like that, have spread out, even if people who never went to college, I think you'll see echoes of some of these ideas even on the right. You know them. If you go to the farm to the sort of far fewer on right, I think. it also see people say. But what is reality really? How do you know everything? All information is corrupt by power by these powerful groups. They might again different powerful groups, but these two all these aren't that different and still when I look at that, it does concern, and I really do think about the fight for four our enlightenment values, rationality and objectivity and individuality. Well, we have succeeded,
in pulling you over to the crushing veracity side of the conversation. I am so proud, so very proud to have taken too brought you in the commentary family into have taken your sunny optimism and rushed into a ball where's, my tea shelter it. We got your coming here, you're covered by our office tomorrow, you're gettin, a t, shirt saddle thanks rejoining us, we'll be back with you tomorrow for April Stephen Non Jump at hordes. Keep the camel burning
Transcript generated on 2021-10-26.