A discussion about the lingering and unknowable negative health effects of mid-pandemic mitigation measures that may not even be fully visible to us for years. Also, the center-left’s new obsession with the political strategist David Shor and his prescription for Democratic success: “popularism.”
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Some guy. come to the Commentary Magazine Daily podcast today is Wednesday October thirteen twenty twenty one. I am John POD words, the editor commentary magazine here to tell you that are November issue. We are closing today and will be sending to the printer, and we are very proud of it. It's the best is so we ever done. It is a special issue dedicated to welcome this woke the threat. is the overall portmanteau form for the package
some of the articles in it include SAM Abrams and Jack Wertheimer on the Woke threat to America's Jews. offered Riley on the whiteness of Welcome David Zaka, the direct or of airplane, and there the writer of airplane and the director of scary movie. Another great comic masterpieces on the threat to comedy from welcome this. We have Michael J, Louis of Williams, college on the language awoken ass. We have buried wise on what needs to be done to combat woken, as I'm sure I'm leaving a couple of whatever Troy on medicine and welcome this, and dumb Jim mags on the ridge, no woke
the original exposure of woken from an academic setting Alan circles, famous hoax article, about how gravity is of is a construct From ninety may six sex and how and how it he on the battle, because everybody recognised the thing that he was made fun of and lost the war, because everything that he was making fun of has come to pass in the twenty five year sense anyway, we're gonna be tough. About it? Over the course of the next month, hopefully will have a bunch of the writer These pieces on the podcast to talk about their specific findings and their specific analyses. This
of it should be up maybe later today, maybe tomorrow. I commend it to your attention, a commentary, dot Org, where we give you a few free read them. Ask it to subscribe if you haven't subscribed yet subscribe to read, woke the threat. I can't stress this enough. This is remarkable stuff that we produced here and that you really need to read the person who is shepherding that into print is my colleague executor. editor, a brain waldheim hijacker with a car I'm in this issue, though, not part of the welcome package senior, the writer Christine Rosen high Christine Hygiene and holding up the fort everywhere else associate ever Rossman high. Now I gotta ok guys there is an interesting body that is out today from you see a layer. Let yesterday lay yesterday
from the USA Allay Department of Public Health. Actually, on the public health effects with a pandemic that suddenly go in a direction that we haven't seen before I'm quoting here from deadline which is not ordinarily, a source I use for medical information boats where I saw at First news Lasher Americans drank more smoke, more watch more tv and exercised less during the recent pandemic, bit related business closures and stayed home orders. The study published in the switch based journal nutrients, confirm that Americans largely settled into sedentary routines. During the height of the pandemic, quote we found that regulation to restrict non essential activities and stay in her mortars during the pandemic have had profoundly negative impact on multiple lifestyle behaviors in american adults. According to a statement from doktor Leeway, Chin, you sail a fielding school. A public health issue
professor of epidemiology and lead author of the study as bad as these changes had been for all Americans. They disproportion. Only impact racial and ethnic minorities. In the? U S, authority bear a hired disease burden from covered Nineteen researchers conducted a survey of representative samples, american adults from across the country in October, asking them to report on lifestyle behaviour such as exercise, time time, townsmen front of a tv or computer screen alcohol consumption, cigarette smoking and fair, Twill consumption. According to the survey, respondents reported a thirty one percent drop in exercise time, while screen time in Greece by sixty percent alcohol consumption jump by twenty three percent. smoking increased by nine percent. Okay, so we were talking At this, when the pandemic was raging and and public authorities were doing absolutely psychotic things like removing basketball hoops
from playgrounds and in the case of my own neighbourhood and my own city, pad locking playgrounds to prevent children from so from going and playing in playgrounds on the grounds that it would just be a place where teenagers would go congregate and therefore every He had to be forever. If you remember the line that was said, it was stay at home, but go for a walk. You can go for a walk. But otherwise stay home, and it's interesting that public health that this was the message of you now public health authorities as well as politicians, Precisely because, for the last forty years, we have been Hector them here. Murdered, enamored and yelled at about how we dont exercise enough? How what we watch too much tv and how we're were Simply sedentary obesity is a problem you need to get out more. You need to exercise
for thirty minutes a day you need to get straight. You know Unita like raise your heart rate to eighty five percent of its full capacity thirty solid minute simply to lead ordinarily healthy life and in every one of these people, basically turned around and said. Sit in your home watch tell us in twenty four hours a day in order in from Goober Eads drink smoke and do nothing because otherwise everybody is going to die this kind of mixed messaging, which was is the highlight, is that is the key element of public health messaging during the pandemic? Is now getting is now gonna show some real world consequences over over time that we have an even really begun to calculate, since this study will detail people's behaviour in October of twenty twenty nine May,
The people did, I got out more after you know, but of course there was the winter surge, and then there was the delta varying. I don't know anyway, as our resident exercise kills person. Perhaps you view this with them. You do this. a certain amount of them. Schadenfreude F First, I want to say you know this: we did with the data here Doesn't at all comport with anecdotal exe
since everyone I know during this pandemic got out, they exercised, they stopped drinking, they didn't smoke at all. You know. No. This is like very straightforwardly. Obviously the case this is this is what happened to know, and I want to note that, while plate rounds were being locked, why you couldn't go to religious worship of liquor stores were open. The entire time that was of TAT was a big feature of of of of those businesses that state open here, but one of the interesting things about the bet. The article, though, is that note about how this dish disproportionately impacted minorities biscuits into a little bit of the on falsified, able problem with such claims, because
It is also claimed that if people had to go to work during the pandemic and leave their homes, this too would disproportionately impact minorities who had to work, in less serve pandemic, safe jobs, so that that is the details to me, the jumped out, visited it, sort of its a never ending feature of every side of every discussion. While the thing is that the health crisis in the United States involving personal, the things that people control in their health. right, meaning, caloric intake alcohol intake, nicotine and take- and you know the question of whether or not you whether or not you exercise your heart, you don't you get cardio you. You exercise your heart, so that it does not get heart disease
All of these have been shown repeatedly over time to disproportionately affect minorities that is to say, minorities die younger. They have much much they have. have many more incidences. You know dishwashing of the disease This is a sedentary, miss and am, and bad debt, not bad. But let's say. on personal conduct, meaning diabetes, heart disease, the things that are are often preventable or at least mitigate able. By personal behaviour and personal control, but that there such a contrast over the last year and a half between, so that message of forty percent of African Americans in this country are obese. About.
Thirty per cent of all adults in America are, but the most obese group by race is african African, the major cause of death for African Americans in this country- heart heart diseases number one by far secondaries cancers. You know better that are often the result of smoking drinking one, not that health crisis has been very clear to public health professionals for a long time. People don't like two to tackle it because it's it's not politically correct to say, you're eating poorly and you should drink lesson smoke less because it's killing you, but at the same time, at posts. George Floyd. There was this other weird messaging, completely devoid of of fact about how. If you walk out of your door, if you're an african American and the U S, you're gonna get killed by police, statistically, not true, but it it was used to sort of to people to come out and protests, etc, etc. But the true problem here with covered in particular, is that obesity was a man.
your co morbidity. The people who had suffered the worst outcomes in and tragically died morph often were those who came in to the hospital presenting with diabetes, obesity. Lifestyle diseases, as we call them one are, were and are yes we're an incontrovertible theology creature of the of the Delta variant exactly exactly so that those conversations again this is this goes to this broader theme. We ve touched on many times over the last year, have about mistrust in public health professionals to public health professionals. Where were we know, pad locking playgrounds but telling you to go out on the street and protest? The fact that if your black you're gonna get shop at cop when you leave your house like this is not. This is not rational. So then people don't make decisions based on rational choices, and I think this speaks as well to the vaccine hesitancy among some of these groups. The idea that the real danger to you is is some of the choices we make on a daily basis, and I say this with sympathy because I think a lot of people struggle with this aspect of person
health and they live in neighborhoods, where they probably don't have a lotta health options. They don't go at a time to cook good, healthy food. All of those things are genuine problems that need to be tackled, but in terms of covert and in terms of the sort of Postal Ford raced discussion, we found this country. Those are completely avoiding this major issue the african american community, you know in them in his book the road to Wigan Peer George Orwell. You know who wrote brilliantly about the effects of poverty and the lifestyle of poverty on the on the british working class points out that in you know, in in these, in working class communities, where, Where people you know coal, mining communities and real hard industrial communities in the nineteen thirty's in in Britain would get visited by These do gooder upper middle class ladies
we ve come in to explain to them how to eat more healthily and how to have vegetables and have a can vegetable do this and to do that and Orwell says in one of them another great passages that explain why we still talk about him. Seventy five, seventy years after his death, says This pseudo array of quacks as quacks and do gooders- fail to understand the elementary fact of a very hard scrabble life, which is that people want to eat things that taste good, because it is one of the few pleasures that they have and go into them. In saying you know it's really better, for you is to eat something, that's good for you, rather than tastes, good for you not only to say that we have spent now eighteen
and under the sway of people who essentially take this attitude have retailed it to America about how to behave in ways that are good for you better for you. because we know better and we in our we now this em and obviously under under understand about conditions, because there was an effort to see what could be done to make sure that the pandemic did not to into an event like the spanish flu, were you there were hundreds dead. Tens of millions of people. Work old, worldwide and yet That effect was essentially to create panic and control old behaviour among people who were already controlled, that it is people who
pretty, might serve eat well or carefully. Are you now follow the rules and are worried about the effects of smoking or d? Don't drink too much? You know who, their lives in a cautious fashion in health? Why health wise, who were driven transports of paranoia terror and fear by a by this by the insistence on this regime and that the people who really needed the message. The most were, of course, the people who are just gonna here, at least because it's like my life, is chaotic, an unpleasant enough already, you're. Actually now gonna come to me and tell me how, This was to go the idea up. Another armor light is one day today I mean granted. These are not call minors. Americans are not call minors in England in the ninety authorities, which is really what what Orwell's writing about, but the condescension that was me.
Displayed is exactly The sort of thing that will lead people to do the opposite of what they are being preached at and when suddenly you develop a favorite disease syndrome like it's like when those things our favorite condition syndrome where sudden there is something so pressing that everything has to fall. You know in its path like when there are sir Panic, somewhat moral panax right, like the satanic child abuse, panic of the early ninety navies and suddenly due process free speech The rights of the accused and all of that have to false way, because clowns, are raping children in the basement of day care centres, and we have to do everything we can to stop it and in those moments, all kinds of protections. Civil rights protect then stuff go out the window, because what it was to say now, you're not supposed to stop
the town of clowns from raping children, and indeed they care center base. And the same thing happened here which is like we have to stop. Covid by any means necessary, so here's what we're going to do, we're going to lock playgrounds, we're going to take basketball hoops off we're going to arrest people for walking too far. from their house, you know or whatever which, in the dim really happening here that happened in Israel. Among other places, really and Australia and right, Zealand and it not as though, when you make that kind of choice that you're, not privilege in one set of facts over another and that the other set of facts that you are now put pushing by the wayside aren't going to have ancillary consequences, I mean that's part of the point here: is we ve already heard
serve anecdotally. We don't have like longitudinal a really serious data on it, but is there going to be an upsurge in cancer because people's sir for months where nobody could get a doctor's appointment to get checked out four things: people weren't you getting colonoscopy is how many people are gonna be diagnosed with colon cancer, because for four or five months they couldn't get a colony Skippy side as well. I don't know the answer. Tat guides are women, we're just talking about the physical impact of of these things. physical health, the mental health dimension of of being shut in smoking. More drinking, more being sedentary, not seeing people being glued, green screens that showed nothing but death and dying and then you know it up
police brutality and protest to it and messages about how broken this country was. The large scale impact on that in terms Are the National mental Health and its impact on the radicalism of the politics that have emerged out of Covin? I think is that something that that that we we won't be able to sort of figure out for a long time now, at the beginning of the pandemic,. One of your strongest line of argument was people are just not going to follow the rules at some point, people have to live their daily lives, particularly people who you know do like work with their hands and their professions involve doing things for people their houses on their cars. You know whatever that date that these are people who have to work interact with people to provide services to them in order to make a living and there
and that all of this was served design for people Higher lockdown regime was designed for people who went, who did not work in this way and that people are just going to ignore it and go about their daily lives. and I'm sure that happen to to a really, stoning degree out of the site of the Munich the mind of everybody's homeowners. You know throughout the United States so what is your sense like in in given that fact? Maybe it's it's not that you know, like everybody stadiums I M went through this, maybe the disproportionate effect of it only required a certain number of Americans to follow the rules and then yet hammered by the by the inevitable consequences. Teenagers in particular, but weaken, why can't speak to the experience of teenagers ever? Have the more know them
but I can tell you my experience with the exception of the darkest days of the pandemic March, twenty twenty through worm MID June. It was like that I live next to at the time I live next to an auto mechanic. I was in a very working class neighbourhood. We lived outside about next to a fire house and your experience was not mine. I did not see very many people master did they were under their knows? There were plenty of places that you could go to to evade these kind of restrictions. They were not enforced, they were not observed, they were marked. and it never really went back and another five since moved even further out into the hinterland- and you wouldn't know, there's a pandemic out here, it's over. It is visible to the people who are our culture orbit a cultural.
the people for whom this sort of regime is ubiquitous and enforced through social covenants is that's their daily life. They have created that for themselves what I believe to be an alternate alternate reality. It does not reflect life outside of major metropolitan areas. It is all you see on television. It is all you see in major newspapers, and it is perceived to Be- universal and its it's really not until the extent as reflected in the statistics I dont know. I couldn't tell you and I said I would believe that it probably suggests that there was no more lackadaisical approach to this sort of thing resulted in better, worse outcomes out here, but not to the extent that its dominating the discussion I mean even today. What do we do?
about you talk about enforcing these rules on people who are already inclined to observe the rules. They wasn't a concern really for the further. The two extended. We would see them behave in ways that would change and alter the behaviour of people homeward. Observing these these these mitigation measures they weren't, acting like that they weren't engaged persuasion efforts they weren't travelling out into this the countryside, to to shame and marketing of these people and then the diners who work in our trump voters. They were just kind of it. They existed as a hypothetical, they were changed from afar and if there were concern was such that we're talking about here that it was really genuine than behaviour would not. We wouldn't have seen that kind of behaviour would have seen something much more akin to a persuasion effort and we didn't. We saw scare tactics and we saw mockery and done it had the the predictable effect
now. These people are probably not as health conscious has as just about anybody else who we're talking about they. They have a different conception of how they can and should live their lives that comport with the standards that we would see in the lancet or that the people who talk about the sort of thing I mass embassy and but that we have to accept that one of the things I was set as we're gonna have to learn to accept that there are a certain number people in this country that you're never going to reach a certain number of people will never go vaccinated. There are a certain number. people who are not going to be helpful. Who are not going to eat their vegetables? Who are not going to get the flu vaccine? We're not gonna. Do this sort of things that you do it, who got aren't gonna sitting upon make sure that their only watching television for twenty five percent of the weak? It's not gonna happen and to the extent that we can live a psychologically healthful life. You have to stop obsessing over the last
of others. But, but I agree with that with one caveat and that's that when, when you, when race is a factor in the disproportionate impact of anything in this country, now that is used as a weapon in policy making without attention to any sort of individual or personal responsibility, and by that I mean, if you look at how public health has dealt with the obesity crisis, for example, there is their extremely careful not to bring race into it too often, and when people have as an I look, I was nothing Michelle Obama was a good first laid in many regards. I really like that. She kind of targeted her. Let's move campaign for two
on minority kids. She was like you guys are the ones I gotta get up and get moving. She encourage people to have more fresh fruit and vegetables. She did the nudging, yes she's a progressive Niger, but she was targeting the group that most needed to hear that and they still didn't largely listen. We see these debates and easy all the time about food. Deserts of these markets go set up, but people don't come in by the protest. I guess I worry, though, policymakers use disproportionate outcome to argue for a kind of more radical policy making in and radical. You know certainly throwing money at problems without dealing with the source of the problem and in tackling that- and I know individual physicians obviously are doing that with their patients, but but for public health. It's it's! It's
very useful tool when they won a kind of wheeled more power. But I don't want to talk about the personal responsibility. I think I can say in retrospect. I think in retrospect now that I know they look back on it and it wasn't on and off like a light switch. It was. It was gradual, but you can see the demarcation line where it was and it was in the summer of twenty twenty after the riots. That was the all clear when public health officials set our right get out in the streets in racism, public health crisis, a more pressing one in fact uncovered nineteen and again, if they didn't happen overnight, nobody's as political or ideological as we are, obviously so that wasn't the articulated philosophy, but that was when it stopped there,
when the mitigation measures no longer became priority, number one, in fact, they were probably a little excessive in the minds of the people who were my neighbours. I just want to say too knows point that we should accept that there are always going to be people who are not going to listen to Thee The well intentioned most up to date, advice on how to be healthy and take care of yourself and how to eat and how to cook and Anne had to avoid the virus and and what not to drink and all bad habits and up not only should we accept it shouldn't we embrace it. The to me the aspect of a world where everyone did follow these these rules and was compliant with with with this kind of it that is to me a disturbing nightmare. I means Joy letter, yet I mean I mean
it's. What makes life worth living is that there are such people around. I have them in my life. I am to some extent one of those people. In fact, you know we all work. We all are to varying degrees, and I think it's something that feeds into the resentment of the public health regime. And the sort of general finger, wagging Orwell or wealth. Sore point that you that you brought up like they're they're they're, there needs to be understanding and embrace the fact that there is more to life than then hanging on to every last interviewed by virtue of small and big sacrifices. I think in the in the largest sense what this study shows and what is, I think, again a major distinction between. conservatives in America properly understood and law, Brill's in America, properly understood is there Conservatives have learned very ruefully over time in a thousand from ways
at every decision is a trade off every thing you do oh, is he now not ever, is by Mary, but you say yes or no at a given point and when You say no and therefore Europe, your vector goes off to another side. There was a path that was not taken. That would have been the yes path, and could have had ex wines the consequences and then the no path which takes you. The other way has ex wines consequences, and that, when we are debating public policy choices particularly involving not now legislation which serve goes through an entire process of debate and hum innovation and water down, and all of that in order to make it. You know something that a majority of people can agree with, but fear executive board
executive responsibility that every decision needs to be weighed against the trade off the trade off in at with covert was we have to do all of this because otherwise, millions and millions and millions of people are are going to die. and so that kind of under caught everything, but It is now twenty twenty one and twenty thirty one. We are going to discover that some x number of people probably die because of the emergency decisions that we made, we don't know how many it couldn't be, my far less than we realise and the excess number some covered, which were now you know. I know in the United States three four times what they would have been. Otherwise may always you know, you know over overshoot. Whatever number it's determine resulted from people not getting Collins cancer screening
in the summer of twenty twenty and therefore getting advanced colon cancer or like fire, really seeing it at a point at which it could no longer be dealt with or something like that. But the whole point is that every economic decision, every decision that government makes they trade off and lived rolls hate the trade off argument. They hate it like poison and what they do with it is that they quote ring Lardner. You say what about the trade off they say shut up. He explained that's the trade off argument because the idea is every we want to do is going to be good, don't You tell me, what's going to be bad, don't you tell me if we use this radical climate change philosophy that every person in West Jenny is going to be unemployed. I dont want to hear that
so I'm just going to ignore that you set it as opposed to ha, but here's, how I'm going to argue that otherwise or when I go through my process, I'm gonna figure out something that can be done with coal- I mean- I don't know, don't don't don't blaming the trade off is the heart of of the can. Directive idea about large scale, government action and it is the EU. It is the deliberate ignoring of the trade off problem. That is at the heart of liberal action. I just want to add to that with a nakedly partisan point, which is that this revelation about that the health problems incurred by the by them, but a mitigation measures in the short term is yet another example of one of these pandemic age things
that back when only conservatives were saying it. Where is viewed as crazy and now people. Now it's like. Oh yeah. I guess I guess, there's a point there. This includes, among other things, the lab leak theory of the of the origin of the virus. The idea that annual homo is not some kind of hero. The the assertion that define the police may have a bad effect on crime and I'm sure there are more ok. I want to talk about the fund, the police thing in relation to our next segment, but before I oh. You know there was a really baffling piece of economic news yesterday. The data We estimate that four point: three million people quit their jobs in August. That's almost three percent of the workforce, and
in the course of that only looks like seven hundred thousand job openings were filled when four point three million people quit their jobs. So what we have. We have a very weird thing, which is that people just stopped working in August and our friend David Bondsman, at the bonds in group who produces the we see today, newsletter from which are about to quote, has an interesting analysis which Exley expresses why it is that you should go and subscribe to the DC to data come from bonds and group quote. I've spoken a lot about my strong concern around the labour participation rate and what it means to a society when an increasing number of people become structurally disengage from the works As I am concerned by the overall rates decline and sticky, miss me, the low levels of twenty thirteen to twenty fifteen that we had begun to get off of pre covered, so the labour
participation rate collapse during the financial crisis, somewhat lower and lower. Still in the years that followed before making a bit of work in the years before coveted, obviously collapse during covert. And yet, even when all of the labour market. Improvement since then seem to have stayed anchored to that. Twenty thirteen to twenty fifteen level here is the big concern. There is a better result for people just twenty five to fifty four, but there is a new low in the overall labour participation rate, which is getting stick here by the month when you look at the whole picture of people employed ages sixteen and up, which means that there is an extra problem of labour participation for those aged sixteen to twenty four and those fifty five and up, in other words, two vulnerabilities are clearly forming, both was societal risks. I truly hate to think about what is the decline,
the men of work from young entry level, workers in the economy, and the second is those at a midlife position. Increasing giving up and exiting the workforce entirely. This is the kind of analysis you can get on a daily basis from the DC today: dot com. a weekly analysis of a similarly high level at dividend. Cafe outcome: go to delegate the dividend, CAFE: dot com to subscribe to these two news, letters from David Bonds and then the bond some groups, ass it out to the intellectual spaghetti of the financial services and management industry. so a mention defined the police and There is an interesting craze this week or over the last couple weeks, a crazed that started really last summer, went away, and now, with back it's the David Shore Craze. It's it's David Shore Mania its People are pulling David Shore from from
his limousine, like the Beatles in a hard day's night, screaming and yelling, and going crazy David Shore being the thirty year old data. analysed who broke his son who serve like got his sea legs during the Obama, twenty twelve campaign famously fired during the George Floyd protest summer for pointing out literally fired from his liberal political, consulting group egg for tweeting out a study by almost ass, our of Princeton himself. The way a person of color about how, when Democrats stress, serve like anti, police, or you know about issues or they can maybe get them tagged as not being some anti crime. Enough they in general lose a couple of points off their vote totals you know in angry over time
Tweeted. This out didn't write anything about. It was fired by his firm and then because of his firing started getting interviewed by people, particularly Eric love, it's in New York magazine and now, a year later, there has been this a boom lead as reclined at twenty to thirty, million word piece about David Shore and his brilliance in the Sunday meagre times this week and basic David Shore says. Democrats are heading into a catastrophic calamity because by by privileges the ideas of their most progressive members and the elite that talk on twitter and stuff that over the real kitchen sink. Shoes of ordinary people and in this case he also beans, white working class people.
They argue their walking off a cliff in terms of political participation and results of elections going forward over the next ten years. Obviously this is catnip to people like us and is catnip also to a certain. type of non crazy Democrat who is functioning in a slightly different in our mindset and the kind of Clinton night mindset so but it so his stuff is very interests. Thing Noah. You have some real problems with it I think they're more sociologically driven than they are that you question his actual findings. Orb or am I am I misinterpreting you now. Let it they're both first that I suppose the sociological
Spectre of this is that I think his popularity is rather easy to explain in so far as as he said, he's thirty years old, which places him of the very tail end of the millennium generation, early generations ie, and he is saying to democrats older than he that the generation of which he is a part is terrible. People love that all defeat love to hear how our generation's great and the other guys think, especially the younger gets their awful. That's just human nature and that's, I think, explains quite a bit of it. The allure on second is much more policy oriented. For example, we now have this word: populism dominating the discussion among Democrats and liberals talking amongst themselves who recognise their in something of a self made bind, and you know in so far as the last time you spent a whole lot of time.
Thinking about how you could be popular. You have to go back to high school, which wishful actually give you a good perspective on what he's talking about. So he said he, I dentists popular ism. In so far as its I got, a viable as polling polling day suggests that in our democratic should pursue policies that people like and do not pursue policies that people don't seem simple enough and obviously something like defined. The police.
isn't popular and pulling so Democrats should pursue it. However, when he says that there are things that are popular, for example, that Democrats should pursue- and he said this directly or think two days ago- is a federal jobs, guarantee frontal jobs, guarantee poles real well among working class motors. That's exactly who Democrats want to get back, they should have included it in the reconciliation package should be talking it up when pressed as to what those jobs would be. He identified just a sort of permanent census taker which to me suggests that he hasn't really thought this through, because the wages and supervisory capacity of that kind of a job aren't competitive in the current job market, which brings me to my biggest problem, which is that he identifies popularity and one metric which is pulling data, and that is not how you identify that which has passed
Hilary federal jobs guarantee has been floated forever. It was flooded and legislation. It has been retailed by progressive since I've been alive and conscience and probably far earlier than that and by every metric we have available. It is not popular because it has not been pursued in any way that wouldn't trends they enter into law has been. It has failed to jump off the starting block every single time it's been pursued, and if you refuse to see that as an end, nation of unpopularity. Your theory of populism is narrow to the point of my opium and hopelessly flawed, Ok, you know. That's. A very good point is particularly about the federal jobs guarantee, the one time that there was a really significant national debate over that was the Humphrey Hawkins full employment bill in the eight Seventys which went down to defeat and pretty ignominious to feed, and that was
It was really a kind of some moments. The last moment before Reaganomics actually serve, took over and said. I know you know what we should go. A radically other direction and return money from government to people in the form of thirty percent did decline. tax rates, overtime and, let's see how that works in terms of I mean you know how worked like crazy. It worked in the end, and so that was a kind of you know that was the end of that for a couple of generations when, of course, people forget the lessons of the past and are willing to start king up ideas that were discredited by by real world experience, but I think you do David Shore the service, not that I care, you know how he does in his own party, but by by saying what Democrats should do should do things that are popular. Not do things that are unpopular here saying something that is talking. We call
commercial within his own coalition, because the things that the chattering class one to do are unpopular we're back to shut up. He explained right. We are back to what we're back to David Shore saying. Don't talk about defending the police talk about things that are going to help ordinary people and It would seem to be contributors to are an improvement in their lives, and you're not allowed to say that in the circles in which you travel, if you tweet anything that even hints at that you get fired, that was the point of his experience, and so all he's saying in some wild boar or in a large bore thing is Alexandria. Cassio Cortez does not refer actually sensibilities, opinions, ideas and voting preferences of demo,
brats, let alone all Americans, and you are, you- are surrendering the parties, idiotic ideological structure to her and people like her, and the consequences are going to be incredibly dire. I don't have a problem with advocating unpopular policies. I advocate plenty of unpopular policies I advocated in murdered american foreign policy, but you are not a little. I add one case shoring up the new safety net privatisation. Nobody likes that you are not a political consultant day it sure, is a political consultant. His purpose as a professional is to get Democrats elected to office in sufficient numbers they control the legislative agenda and the executive and to the United States and under those conditions, he is saying, if you advocate why not? You know harassment, eyeing intellectual class, I get it, and but there are serious, a democratic perspective as to why that's a flawed presumption that he'd the notion
You can rely on popularity as though it say stack metric and not shifting, based on the whims of electorate that is not an ideological and doesn't follow. Policy is really understand. Policy. Benjy, Starling, Overwritten, NBC News noted accurately. the bail out of the auto companies into those nine was wildly unpopular. Arguably responsible for broke upon his re election three years later, because the policy changed their added at the population. The popularity of the policy changes it was an act. No, no I'm not! I'm not gonna worry it. When I popular at the time limit hard philosophy on popular it'll get yours, you're, building a foundation on sand, but there was a very clear. The reason that I don't think that's a great example is the auto industry employs aid close to a million people. You held it out. Even ever was wildly unpopular, you were at least do
something where you could say. I am doing this in order to preserve the jobs of a million people. If you defend the people, is what you are saying is up is down is that we want to do to prevent crime are actually causing murders, the murders of black people, so they say I'll, just go away and then what's gonna happen, more black people are gonna murdered because there are no cops anyway. I'm just saying that law Christine go ahead. I think this is one of the reasons explains shores popularity. It's not did he
kind of a cassandra that more moderate minded. Democrats need and it has to come from within, can't come from without because the critique he's offering is quite stunning in what he got fired for initially. Was that the study he was fired for was comparing peaceful protests or non violent, peaceful protests with violent protests? Any any said: look if we look at the previous civil rights protest era. When things turn violent, it was bad for Democrats when they were peaceful there. There wasn't the same effect and that got him fired, because the Democratic Party is being Push by his left. Flank, as we've discussed many times per ticket on issues of identity, politics and wokeness, to be much more radical and to endorse violence- and we saw many people in the in the left coalition absolutely call for violence in the streets during this some poster boards summer. What he is saying to two people who are running for office is this makes everybody feel really excited, but it's really bad for the average motor and the difference is it's the white highly
Did voters in a coalition with the Democrats that are pushing this. They are more radical on most issues than even the African Americans, who are part of that multi racial coalition in particular, as you say, John, on the issue of defending the police, we saw this many times african Americans in high crime neighbourhood saying stop saying that we want cots who just want them to be better trained and not to use excessive force, so he's the Cassandra that that those all those people who Joe Biden actually go to the polls unless election need- and I think his popularity is almost amid he serving the same function that mention in Cinema, are doing in the Senate to block the extreme and that's why they like him whether or not that's gonna be successful, I dont know those suburban white, highly educated, progressive, pretty Ladys are, are a powerful force in the democratic coalition right now we have the response, though, to to his criticism is an isn't purely up. He explained its also on them.
there's an effort to try to massage finesse what they believe in the service. I'll make it go away that well the violent This aren't really violent. You know that you're dead it's just the server framing issue? You know and Define doesn't really mean defined. You know, that's not really. What we're talking about so there's this sense it like you, know too too too, to take the them. The temperature of the of the country on these issues is to buy in two amiss. Representation of of democratic ideas. That's why I would really like people when, when it's up, I think later they to read Will Riley's the whiteness of woken us. Peace from are woke list red issue because it details, the extent to which ideas about race, in the United States and the promulgation of legislator
remedies on ideas. All this are not being done by black people. there being done by leftist white people who are incorporating this into a radically anti american understanding of our entire political system and are in effect using race in in a weird way. You know as a kind of minstrelsy like they are. You know their poet they're putting their pudding Shoeblack on their faces, in order to claim that the ideas that they want to pour out there they are preaching, but that are literally so radically. Socialistic are basically anti american and anti democratic are important morally justified, because they are speed.
king in the voice, a name and spirit of black people and its up. It's a pretty it's a pretty startling argument. I need to do. I need to do a spot here about re con It's fantastic ear. Buds that might might Our users I use vague there. They are beautiful black, improved Rob, royal, look and feel weather. they use them to pump up wind down work or work out. Rake HANS had become my go to four hours ago, audio with their new. Every day here, but three new sound profiles to make sure everything sure everything to sounds to best with just the right amount of amount pure mode is for is for podcast listing balanced motives for rock and heavy rock base. Modus were hip, hop The Yemen Reggae, the all new awareness mode means you can search, shouted all often listen to your surroundings. Eight hours a play time. Thirty,
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commentary. No, I'm sorry. I interrupted you if there was something yeah suggested feeling that we are talking about regarding the racial dynamics, their time at source, piece in the New York Times this morning, which is one of fourteen pieces unpopular ism. It did has overtaken the debate on the left, which is indicative, I think, of the part that they find themselves boiling in. But anyway he sure is quoted at length talking about the extent to which the democratic coalition is shutting blackness, panic members who are gravitating towards Republicans as a working class coalition, increasingly talks about how white liberals are increasingly divided, the defining the parties image much to the will to will Riley's partners turning off non like conservative Democrats and pushing them against us too, which Gmail Buoy responds is New York Times columnist, liberal progressive african American
says that my problem is, I don't think you're in his allies are being forthright about what it would take to stem the tide of reverse. This trend- and he says that that Shores analysis suggests that quote anti black prejudice is so strong within the democratic coalition, that a shift in rhetoric wouldn't change. Change the the problem than you once the shore to be much more explicit about what he means leading Lee quote it seems to me as if they're talking around the issue rather than being up front about the path they want to take unquote solely implication, there is rather clear David Shores channeling the racist elements in the democratic party. He wants the Democratic Party to appeal to the racist elements within it and to shed the policy preferences of progressive this to concede. The fact that Democrats will have a racist element within their coalition and that's unacceptable to him he's being very coy about it, but it's not hard to unpack what he means.
And that's part of the problem plaguing the party is that they dont countless our opposition to their ideas, preferring instead to a tribute them to latent racial animus, which is an easy rhetorical tactic, but also the obstacle that you're gonna find when you're. Just talking about popularity and that's part of something I am actually quite sympathetic towards, I don't care. If you don't think social security should be shoring up with privatisation of accounts. I don't give a crap, I think you're. And I think I will argue against you whether you think that popular, not engineer who we think the same thing. You things your anathema, because I believe I think you probably have a poisoned heart right, I don't care what you like, and what your popular and will, you think is popular. I will argue against you and impose I will upon another argument, but Gmail
We are not making an argument. Now he's not I'm a day or two before him, David said David Shore rule to share and others quoted, mantles peace say support. For Democratic Coalition among Working Class, Hispanics and working class blacks has declined by double digit numbers for the last eight years, that's hard fact- or at least you know, if, if we can take pulling the hard fact, that's a hard fact that cannot be argued with and Jamal Buoy says shot up says proved to me: you're, not a racist. That's not an argument. That is an effort to press a conversation because we sure, and others are bringing up, is a decline of support among minorities and then The idea is well, we de I mean you're only making this argument, because you want to support racist, why weights and they're making- exactly other argument and he's trying to use the kryptonite
he has in the Democratic Party which is saying somebody is a racist it's well, you know get you fired if an email emerges that says that you said something insulting on a private text chain with somebody about a player rap if you're the veto, if you're gonna coach of the temple of if your coat, the Jaguars or whatever the hell. John Bruton was a coach up like ten years later. Europe your life is over. Chernobyl is trying to do that to David Shore, implicitly by saying you keep going this way then we are but we're not going to stop saying that you're, not a racist for arguing that blackened Hispanics deserving the Democratic Party is a problem. The party needs to deal with but this is getting harder to do. We saw this with the with the Trump numbers among hispanic voters in the last election right, the attempt to kind of paint the Cubans in Miami as actually white. We see this with asian american voters and asian american parents of students who you get
the high achieving colleges and high achieving competitive, high schools, their white? But this attempt to whitewash minorities who don't follow the identity politics line cannot hold because there are too many of them. There are too many them standing up in saying I don't agree with you and it's not because of color of my skin. It's because I don't agree on principle and the Gmail buoys of the world are actually creating this really negative feedback loop for themselves, were they think they're, just schooling, the the outliers when in fact, they're talking to the radical middle that that the middle, the which is becoming radicalized, because, if you're, an african american working Class but in the democratic party- and you think you have to read and subscribe to epidemics, candies theories, You're not gonna, be in a happy place. Ok, look when running a business. moving on to our final spot when running a business. Hr issues can kill you
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Thank you all for listening, it's my nineteenth anniversary and my daughter's fifteenth birthday. So I have many things I have to do today and thank you for advance for all of your good wishes and thoughts thing and for restated no job onwards.
Transcript generated on 2021-10-14.