The final debate before Democrats caucus in Iowa might have been the most boring debate of the 2020 primary cycle, excepting the feud between Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren. Also, new revelations about Rudy Giuliani’s conduct and the Senate GOP’s apparent willingness to entertain new witnesses throws a new wrench into the impeachment process.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Welcome to the day. Early commentary magazine podcast today is Wednesday January. Fifteen twenty twenty. I am jump onwards. The editor of commentary with me, as always senior editor agreement, high aid, I jump associate at her. Now last I know I Jihad in Washington senior writer Christine rose high, Christine Hygiene, So we are they early because we wanted to come to you with all of our scintillating views of the of last night's democratic debate, and we just have come into our
podcast studio. After watching Nancy Pelosi announced the seven impeachment managers who will prosecute the trial of Donald Trump in the Senate, apparently beginning next week. So this is an all. This is of all conservative analysis of all democratic events, beginning last night after at my p, my pm Opium Manon my night. So the first question I have four for you Christine is: how did you? What did you do to stay awake during that debate? Having yourself with a fork well, I usually rely usually rely on our group tax to keep me awake with the jokes, but we all kind of
became despairing in and full of lassitude. I actually I was thinking. I was kind of missing Andrew Yang, who could have then the sort of highly Joe Osment character set from six cents like icy dead people like you needed there was. There is really a need for some sort of levity or weirdness in Marian Williams and Entry Andrew Yang form. So no, it was was pretty bad. I I basically kept standing up, and the dog and that did the track so I had to write a column last night for the new posts which is in the new post em around after but an hour of the proceedings. I was you know in despair, because I couldn T think of what on earth I was gonna say about this. Embalming possession
that seems to be going before us, I think part of why I found it also just so painfully boring was that this is a conservative viewpoint set free the start, to my mind what they were talking about had so little, connection to reality that it sort of lowers the stakes, because, if they're not talking about anything real, so if there were not on the brink of war with Iraq, the ever everyone is it out of work because of Trump and so on. So there should have outing off on this. You know his fantasy debate, that does connected the facts on the ground it so it's hard to be invested there there were. There were new introductions of of new demented policies. Last night
by the candidates themselves in some actually by the rather bizarre. I guess we'll Fletcher was emphatically bizarre badly to other bizarre moderators harass asking questions like GUM Christine. Did you notice the the proposal that there should be universal free infant care, whether the use adding at a term that you are aware that you have ever heard before I have now heard I mean we usually hear people and Bernie said this: the zero to four years. I can hear zero to four in there's something kind of strangely bod and chilling when people start talking about you know, you know Then you can hold knows this. Ecologists will are the most important obey your entire lifetime exaggerated, but that the infant, this sort of mandatory infant care has a kind of disturbing in sound to it, and now I writer than before,
Platos republic. I think it was proposed that is that that actually is. It is a good analogy or like keyboard like the kibbutz Sometimes comes to the United States, give us your baby, so you can work it is time for you to work, give us your baby. You know it's so so that there was that aspect where I think it goes to absorb unreality point like when you start having these conversations about whether or not you spend fifty trillion dollars or thirty trillion dollars on health care, or something like that and every now, and then I guess it was it was it. My Michael Bennett or John Delaney, one of the real, also ran candidates left from back in the summer who were like what are you? People are crazy, we're not gonna, be spending fifty trillion dollars a year on health care being this is not rational. What you're proposing this
the way. This is the way it's gonna happen, and yet so you have these debates in the republic to be fair back in twenty twelve. There was a lot of this in the republican debates where people would just say you know my proposal is that we have a nine percent flat tax. None of you have not maybe twelve percent. That's like we're, not gonna have a flat tax like were what is the purpose of of you blather ring on like this, when what we need to know is what you'll actually do as a realistic person in the country that we live in. Today now, oh yeah, I mean a lot of this is like one republican start talking about entitlement reform Do you think is necessary. I do, but the political will simply doesn't exist to pursue the policies that you think are unnecessary So it's an exercise in purity, ideological purity than anything else.
I mean yeah. I was pretty crestfallen for most of the knife, particularly because there was about twenty thirty minutes, dedicated to the threat posed by IRAN, in which there really was no threat posed by IRAN? It was the focus was on denying the president the capacity to seek. Making powers against around which he has not pursuing and John, really, whether or not it was necessary at this point in time to remove combat troops engaged in combat operations from the region in the theater was entirely divorce,
from the situation on the ground, which was really disappointing. Probably does we all know that will get into it? The biggest moment of the night was indicative of how generally poorly moderated the debate was wrong, but you know we should say this that so if we go to the wrong part, so the question that was posts, which is very plain, was well what makes you what makes you worthy of having the mantle of commander achieve? How can you what we do or how can you convince people that you, you can fill the shoes of the commander in chief right, and so we had Elizabeth worn say, offers it was directed to Bernie Sanders and Bernie Sanders burnished his credentials as commander in chief entirely and exclusively by touting his. Passing as a legislator to forge anti war coalitions in the Congress
this is completely irrelevant to Us- is a commander in chief right now. I was trying to think of this as a as an analogy, so his Boniface in this realm was to remind people that he had voted against the Iraq war right in two thousand to two thousand and three sides. Eighteen seventeen eighteen years ago. I suppose it's relevant in the question of whether or not you have good judgment and judgment of how the world is and how the world works. We believe that the war was a terrible mistake. What cricket So that gives you to lead the military. Accept that you would say I wouldn't use the military in this capacity is not clear, but then he also goes and says he saw that we went into Afghanistan and then Elizabeth. Or an says, if I'm not mistaken, that every American under arms
outside the borders of the United States, not in Iraq, but everywhere should be brought home while it may verify that low, because she got into it within your time. Some my red and road her disastrous contemptuous interview with the New York Times, which, if they bring themselves to I endorse, which is the she's. The odds on favorite, would be a triumph of ideological commitment over any source of self respect. But she did say that interview when pressed explicitly about Combat Europe's she says: combat troops only combat troops the rules you know maintain or naval commitments and our diplomatic commitments and advisory commitments by name when engaged in combat, including explicitly com. Operations against the remnants of ISIS would be removed from the It sets a really fuzzy distinction. We talk about combat deployment deployments into combat zones and every deployment, even if you're a support, urine
they are a combat troops were so there's that there's warrant, then we got a club which are what club, which our say she said. I am ready to be commander in chief, because I care about Walter, Reed Hospital, the end and education and the support of four veterans. Education and and healthcare. So that is how she would keep America safe by problem by providing better care of Walter Reed Hospital. So Biden who, as knows fond of saying, has been wrong. Every foreign policy issue for less forty years Biden says, but we need to keep some troops there in the fight against ISIS and troops around sort of implicitly, as a bargaining chip again
raw. You know to play with IRAN. If we're gonna go back into the nuclear deal that they all say that we need to be in, and this then becomes the kind of right wing meal con democratic proposition that we should have a few troops here and there, even though it was against the surgeon. He was against the surgeon, Afghanistan. He was against surgeon, Iraq. He wanted to split the every can't country into five different countries and whatever, and so there is live, literally no one on that stage who wasn't functionally pacifists, thick or implicitly accept Biden who wasn't really anything, but so the entire Democrat Party has now ain't closure candidate, the same thing to or shall I can't I'm at war? We need to pull out of all these places, but also in
appointments here here here hearing here and I wouldn't necessarily removed immediately. Why will never allow IRAN together nuclear weapon, but I no idea, I will have you got no. That was also clear charging both of em. It's like I will name IRAN will not get a nuclear weapon on my watch, but you know don't ask me home gonna, pull that that went off, because I have no clue, Nepal that obviously the logic of what they were saying was that Trump is now respond. Iran's gonna be given a nuclear weapon of Trump remains because trumpet so bad that he's convincing IRAN too, you know, go nuclear at you know and to know his point about they have to help poor job moderators did in the questions and follow questions, if I mean so so buttons on stage touting
his personal role in bringing the troops back from Iraq. I was charged with that president turned to me: I got them back now. What about follow up question on what then happened also now, of course fine of corn and back. I don't even know what role he played in that whole Matt. Well, he Plato, all, because he went to Iraq and screwed up the effort to get the. What was I call status aforesaid forces agreement which he screwed up? Although did there is no intention to get a status of forces agreement, then they never All right, then, ever negotiated in good faith right once and then so then, what I had made on one as responsible for the pull out, but he also decided this real. I'm sorry now, but if you're not respond to the extent that is responsible for guys, yeah yeah yeah and not only is the extension of the status forces agreement and then you have the rise. Vice Biden also says this kind of bicycle line about how the Bush administration was only
Taking a? U him ass, an order to get leverage over Saddam Hussein to get weapons inspectors and never make good on an I'm. Only their wishes and origin could have been more transparent. There was a democratic. Why at the time were a bunch of people, Biden included said were voting to give Bush the authorization to go to war in Iraq in order to put pressure on a rock to let the inspectors in you know, without preconditions and in all ways that was their cover. That was their effort to create a conditional plausible deniability that they will that they voted for, but they were really for it
a worldly there to provide maximum pressure and that you know, if only Iraq would give see, reason and let the inspectors in them than war could be prevented. You're right that, basically, at the top by that point, war was inevitable in this was allotted crap. This is a lot of face saving crap for the democratic base, but he wasn't lying that that was what he said at the time: a bunch of Burma. Twenty M, almost half the democratic or twenty two democratic senators voted to authorize the war in Iraq, like it was almost half the caucus. So this notion that, in our view here he was not an outlier. Hillary Clinton voted for remember, but I think she said the same thing in twenty. Sixteen against Bernie, that's what she
one. It was the inspectors to want a war. She wanted the inspectors, but a bush. All Bush water was more anyway. So so, let's go to so we there that's the Iraq section, I yes, we can. We talk a guy got to talk about the next moment. I know, but as I can, we suing skip the healthcare section because again why they keep you don't like. We have to do half an hour and health care. Every one of these debates where they just say this, although, although Warren you may have noticed like in her general flailing bizarre, You know suddenly is endorsing Obama. Copyright that struck tat. I had struck me into. It was a big retrenchment, but you also said the sentence before the jewish romantic care for all and she was for Obamacare, which is I guess you have your better give wrote you don't need Obama care because that you basically nationalized healthcare,
So you know whatever whatever deal Obamacare CARE, whatever Obamacare constitutes now or later before. You know it is, is superseded by by Medicare for all but she's for both of them for the Mama's. In the end, the then the babies It was a Christine. Can we have a basis for a message? Is this just as we do every I'm sure as many of our listeners? No, there was this kind of pre game set up by CNN, where this report at the story that supposedly Warren and that Bernie Centres, that total is with warned that you didn't think a woman could win the presidencies that this was a set up and, as we now see having, being slept through the debate, because it was her tedious and boring ASEAN and must have had fears about people being able to stay awake during the debates are they had? They didn't have a kind of big controversy going in which which Bernie was asked about. I think he handled it pretty well actually kind of dismiss. He said: no.
And say that and when I know women can, when he handled the his response was good, but of course, CNN, just pivots to Warren and says you know, basically without acknowledging that Bernie was denying the statement says. Oh so he said this. What do you say? and it went off from their that's that's a separate. How did you feel when Bernie Sanders told? Yes when did exactly exactly a just said? He hadn't set it right, but how did feel when he did that it was completely surrounded also speaks to. I think why a lot of voters in particular conservative minded, first think CNN, is is not trustworthy. Emanate was not a trustworthy waiting intellect its utter utter malpractice Does the debate moderator to decline the opportunity to get a candidate on the record calling one, proponents, a liar, they took them. Opportunity on themselves, implicit. We called Bernie Sanders. New liar were still
reporting, as though it were written in stone tablet is not. It was workest rated by Senator warns office clearly. Senator Warren orchestrated the moment, delivered this speech that she had practised for that moment and bested was a bad moment for him, but it was entirely orchestrated by the warring it has been made even heard him. It was a bad moment for him, but it was entirely orchestrated by the Warren campaign, with the tacit consent and complicity of a news network moderating the bait it hard to feel a little, not any more than a few pangs of sympathy as a conservative and republican whose watch this sort of stuff be needed out against Republicans. But, alas, twenty This is an old trick. Twenty thirty I'll, be my adult life among around so long, but go we sympathise to the extent that you can sympathise Bernie Sanders. I don't share a single ideological point of agreement,
he's surrounded himself with some of the worst people on the planet like the legion of doom in his campaign, but nevertheless the guy got a raw deal is hard not to call it what it is now well as to the mothers, and that is a question we start as a european, I mean Mama's, aunt, Mama's and babies. What struck me about both the healthcare debate in general and oh and certainly discussion? Parents is how abstract they all see women. Usually they trot out these ridiculous stores, and there were few here and there you know these are. If I talk to real people stories that better that sound entirely candid and over prepare but this time the debate here and on the other side they kept talking about corporations, pharmaceutical companies and the sort of evil abstractions that are out undermine Mama's in babies. I didn't it. Hang untrue. It with it just seemed incredibly disingenuous, especially oddly, went Elizabeth Warren said it she's. Just not.
Persuasive when she starts talking about Mama's in babies, and I don't think it's just that. I ideologically disagree with her imparted. Think it's because I should like her previous adoration, when she had the two income trop broken and was much more What kind of creative about policy making when it came comes to working families? the other sightly sinister thing is that they seem to believe that parents exists to put their children and daycare so that they can just be worker bees and earn lots of money which, I guess, if you with warn. You need them too, because the wealth tax isn't gonna pay for earlier proposals, so they do need to get some income from these working bird's it's its thinkers. I guess the general consensus was that a war and had a good couple of minutes ass. She said this thing about how the two women on stage had won all their elections shift work.
Was wise in her entire lime across a snark eat me, nine men had lost twenty or something like that. It's bore ten you there ten or twenty hoboes Bob Biden, Peat and burn me, and when elections was by losing weight and asked for half centuries idling, though we lost a lost, the two presidential election outright primary or three the priority. One account and Mayor PETE lost the treasure brazen in Vienna Right wasn't, stay territories have Judas hasn't avenant into thirty years, and they they had won all of them, and so they were better. You know, girls, rule raw, It was this nor a certainly when it for themselves at all. There were tears in the audience and you know cheers on twitter and all that
don't know like I mean who, who is that again? Okay, so we're conservatives and we we are not part of the democratic and since within the buttons that they push, aren't buttons that we respond to necessarily but the but the level of kind of like condescension it had that's all quality of remember the old all Jolie commercial from the nineteen like, I can bring home the bacon. For end up in a pan and never let you forget, you're a man, I'm a woman. You know Anja Lee it had that, like we all of our elections we're better. You know rhetoric what should have been nominated for best director. You know it has its like constant hammer chauvinism, its female chauvinism in is not appealing. I mean I mean it's also like it's also, way of saying no, I guess women can't get elected president. If you do this special pleading
It's a pretty set. Of course, when we get be elected President Hillary coming out three million more votes than Donald Trump. You know I mean it's not like she can do that. Women can't popular vote, no one saying otherwise this is all a manufactured issue. There is no way on earth. There is no way in the billion years Bernie Sanders said to Elizabeth WAR and a woman, Campi elected president. He said that he had met with her and said: you're going to run? I won't and then she said, I'm not going to run so he ran and then she decided to run anyway that he kind of dropped it because he doesn't want parent Lee. He said it warrants. Are the Maghreb someone vapid he, you know they didn't want they didn't wanna like mix it up and she didn't want to make with him, because she said after that moderator said, you know, how did you feel when Bernie Sanders said a woman came When she said I disagree sigh kind of expected her to go.
Full Temple, Auntie em like enough fired the shots through research, get somethin litigate them in the press and the kind of pull back when confronted directly, but she didn't really. She did. She did at a profit the issue to the extent she was willing to do it. Well, it was set up for with a different set up. There might have been better server. The good tat for the great applause line about Abed that's what he meant by wasn't the moderator giver allay up again. I am sure you know that it's always weird watching these concerns the question of what their like substantively and whether user, whether you look at them and try to determine who was best in terms of making a case where this or who was blocked. You know what is what are the performance skills and all that I did not myself find her the thing that she did their particularly compelling, but that's not to say that anybody else had a single compelling moment in the two hours, because that that was also what the debate was like.
Also find her her whole theatricals for prairie demeanor would, within their land, adjusted about the Mama's in the babies, and I, from out of the home and her brothers, are our her out of her aunt B and end the abbe. It was like I was like whistling yet and I for one for her ain't, be just like so? Like gave a Griffith, she couldn T gone back there into the teaching and then, of course, there was there. Great Biden moment, which was like ok, I've heard this ten. You know he wanted to mention to the extent that he could so it could get it in there that he was a widower. Twenty nine, his wife and daughter, were killed in a car crash and he was the only parent to his to survive. Sons, and then he said that he famously did. He took the train from Wilmington Delaware to Washington, to you now.
Hundred and fifty miles a day in order to be home at night, but then he did that because he couldn't afford childcare yeah but his he couldn't morning childcare. He was making forty two thirty hours a year, which is by the way. You know that was like two hundred thousand dollars last year, was an illusion that the gas I saw, someone who has basically, of course you could afford childcare. That was done sense, like that's, embarrassing, that he would go there course, once you say you can't afford childcare. You are not allowed to question whether or not someone could afford childcare yet, and that is just that's Europe. Goon by by the way, on the question of in this new universal infant care. I think he waited Yes, he is also agrees with. This is, of course, yes targeted, go back briefly to warrant these atrocious moderating. I mean that led the another first version say: there's lots of people are picked up on this, but the deference that this candidate
has drawn from the press when she has a demonstrated track record of mendacity that absolutely no one in media seems interested in following up on. Besides conservative media is just staggering. Is an unwillingness to abdicate. The role here for Elizabeth horns political prospects and back, that she can't pull it off. That she's been discipline. Everyone has probably broken a lotta hearts in and made the much more willing to take risks losing So last night you right. This is an unless this is a noteworthy accused. Bernie of lying someone accused to Budapest lie about something I can recall what it was, but no one confronts why with this larger issue of her record of you know, beginning with her a test, Another dna tests viable pregnancy viper, where she centric kids school in everything thither,
have been deserve overarching question about her credibility. Nothing, ok! Well! That also goes to the fact that the reason the debate was so enervating we doll is that they didn't mix it up again. There's this is their voting in three weeks are gonna, be there are caucuses whenever it doesn't exactly voting. As you stand up and said, if you know, fill out a secret ballot, but their their carcasses and three weeks there bunched up right, supposedly all the polls show that there is a point basically separating first place from fourth place or three or four points or whatever some of one Paul has has Peter, had Paul has Biden ahead. One Paul has Sanders ahead, so there there somebody something is gotta give, and even the narcissism of small differences could be the subject of some heated exchanges and things like that, and they did nothing
and I was like the only person who ever like caused fireworks aside from that one in a weird Acta pick moment of life from calmly Harris was tells Gabert right who would soon go after everybody for anything or that moment in the previous debate in December, when Amy Club, which are lost it on people to judge and sort of. When absolutely you know of ballistic and showed herself to be the comb salad, monster level that her former staff said she was but but but but smart. You know She needs to like come in second for her not to drop out the next day Nobody was doing anything. Why? Why I mean so? I wrote my conscience. It's like maybe they're, all such pacifist. Now that they're, even pacifist in their political contests, Christine help me out here,
No, I mean I actually. I was expecting a lot more fireworks and in part of its that we were, we were all hoping now that the field was whittled down to just six people that we would see dad. I don't know I mean, could it It doesn't make sense. They actually do have to at least mean setting aside Biden, whose, whose kind of business Dade steadily ahead of most of them in after each debate at the very least, Warren It has gone for the kill with Bernie, or vice versa and a closure could have tried to take out peat and they didn't they just didn't. I mean they must have their own internal pulling. That says: focus on the focus on alleged Billy, They might have been very narrowly responding to what they ve been see in Iowa itself, o rack. We have, of course- and I said this on our group- Chair- was Clover Jars- effort to sort of vote, CHE Wave frantically at the Nevada accurate because she twice said it's like when I was
the bad Anna guided dissidents like she had some bizarre casino, and now Gee about your ship, another job sheds, Anderson, the traveller, Lebanon, blue red and then, and then she mentioned it again, It was sorry. Employers are manifold. Try that try to try to mention. You know casinos. And the vodka the vat as much as you possibly can. She should have done something about legalised prostitution, and like that, would have been better metaphors, all kind of fell flat for me merely so it's it's pure or or they have come to the conclusion that the debates don't matter what, if it is in fact the case that there also, you're saying you know what this does matter or again is moving allay the lad admiral. You blew up, I think we re all right I'll. Just so don't we have because who gave a couple people
lot bribe a meme sort of not that they were gonna go anywhere small well by or Leah Castro blew up right by by by going after Biden by men, a couple of bizarre moments. Right I mean he had that moment when he was asked about Hunter, and he said the common after it gone after my son, but that's than there was an antecedents issue way than no when he was saying he if he were sung by Hunter Trump and what he meant by he he's go and ask for him, and I he and I are work. We have to do our own things and was talking about the sun. Was Italian met his rival with booze very hard to tell he still doesn't. He does not want to engage on the subject of hunter. He said they're going after my surviving son. Like
he's going after my surviving son, but but very emotionally right I mean when this is what I thought he might. They must know why they are not doing it unless it's like that things are so bad behind the scenes with Hunter that you know, he'd just doesn't need to talk about em. There's no good will come a time when a, but I kept thinking months ago. He would have to say now you are as hard as holding it for Trump. Like you listen to me, like I lost one, kid was killed in the car crash. One kid died of cancer, I'm not going to stand here and have you killed my son, my surviving son, like you, know, you'll leave him alone like this is enough already with your disgusting Chanel
but you can't do that without Trump present. I guess he also I'm sorry that he also can do that with a grown man who shown himself to be a fairly irresponsible human beings. So I dont think that play. They must know that any defence I mean he has two. I think he is right to keep his defence kind of muted of Hunter Hunter is a mess and- and I mean there's no way rather than the tabloids- are fully into paternity lawsuit. Now, with some stripper who we got pregnancies We did this new over is also threatening, there's just the port. I got a lot of troubles and doing to help with the national birth stir. I go in. I wouldn't have started by Russia would be welcoming all of this fecundity. Well, it will have universal infancy goes about who is going to pay for who's, gonna pay for the care of his kids, whether they have that all solve those and go into into universal infant care. Then into universal pre k and then freak
So it's all everything is fantastic. Speak! I jerry, he's not he's not a minor is what I'm saying that he is not actually a child, he is, he is Bygones child, but to the rest of the world is an irresponsible grown man and I think they ve got a balance. That I mean the only interesting headed moment I think was win win, but a judge finally said hey. You know if you really wanna go on was about judge said. If you want to go on and talk about like free college, everybody, that's really a subsidy for the rich lake. We have to get everybody educated through twelve gray, but you know we gotta be careful about. We know. Throwing these terms around was net was that by judge your style is managed. Challenges, so that was the one heterodox moment where
suddenly someone is not really throwin. You know everybody's money around to give it to. You know southern Illinois State universities, but I think that also your phone. That also speaks to why known was going after anyone, because the name The game is giving away free things and to attack someone. You have two then deny a free thing. That's no! No one wants a risk that right fearful. You know it, it's not free, but his fantastic, and you really should get it today is the quip toothbrush. So you know what the one single discover that bears most through demo. Hair is, if you have good habits, things are going to be good for
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One interesting aspect of the debate was how they didn't really want to talk much about impeachment abbeys, Arbed Healthcare forever every debate, but they didn't want. I wouldn't peach, meant Biden, said: look it out. They said we have an obligation to warrant said we have a constitutional obligation club which are set out for conservation and fight and said they have to have to do it, because what trumpeted therein peaceable offences but it'll, be up to the Senate. Blah blah blah didn't really want to do much more than that, and and this morning vanity policy marches out the seven impeach man yours who, whom she introduces, after maybe the most bizarre speech. Yet still, I have briefly before we move on from the debate? I just want to say one more thing about the atrocious moderating there. The questions around impeachment were process questions
they were the one. I remember when you are using a siren right. What how are you? I am pain for the president right if you have to preside over an impeachment trial to write who cares they were in Iowa. Who cares you're, gonna cost about one way or the other, it doesn't matter whether cheats their personally pressing, the That's right, I mean it has nothing to do with the presidency is about the campaign. How are you gonna campaign for this campaign when you're campaigning? It's like is of injustice circular question, namely just annoyed me. Do we care, I also. Here's the weird part about this, so the rule as this centres, sworn and they have to be silent and their silent than they have to be silent. While who says.
Apparently I ask somebody about this. You know why one of the just stand up and start making speeches apparently the way the Senate works. If you violate some rule that is on the floor, the Senate goes into what's caught in instantly goes into what's called regular session and you can be disciplined outside of the outside of the impasse. Judgment, hearing process and then your disciplined and then they go back to regular session or something like that. So poorly can't just stand up, but on the other hand like who I will where, where in the constitution does it say, the centres have to be silent, it doesn't. It would be very bad form and there's a lesson in here for Republicans to Democrats, I think have suffered a little bit a lot but a little bit.
A trading. This is a political exercising and obviously, as a political exercise, not not behaving with the solemnity that the occasion as do despite their invocation solemnity every six seconds if they were, if Rob Democrats were to violate the rules in an in pretty brazen fashion and treat this like, it was just another platform. I think it would bring down poorly, but with whom were to whom I that's micro. I look. I have enough I've, no wise move stake amongst them. The whole thing seems to be a you know a farce, basically to some extent, although we should, then we could spend a couple of minutes talking about it, whether it's less of a farce after these revelations from Lev Parnas phone and emails and letters, and things like that, all of which you know there's some pretty creepy stuff in their like the fact that there is
sky, who apparently have we had Ambassador Jovanovic under some form of electronic surveillance. This former Congress, Robert, I did a yeah. How that ends up connecting to Trump is not clear. That's part of the problem here is that we were still at a remove from the president and his councils and the decisions that he was making, which is what the subjects the impunity the biggest for those creed The text must, as were super creepy, their involved tat, talking about getting security forces on board and moving money around to follow this woman. Do something somewhere very cryptic up and creeping up, but the big revelation from their office was the letter from ridiculing on a addressed Presidency Linsky in which regional and he said he was acting in his cup,
as a dental capacity as a presidential visor, with the president's for knowledge seeking a meeting with the Ukrainian, probably one of half an hour of his time, Pisa, which you know ok so just because really set. It doesn't mean it's true by the way. That's part of the problem here is But really there's no way to find out. Ok, that's true! Now the other, the other creepy or the weird thing is the question whether or not these now fired prosecutor, the corrupt fired prosecutor, whose name I care of her yuri. Let sank back you, let's Anko agreed to announce that Biden was under investigation. In exchange for something or other Marie event of a disaster right and she was ousted. But then he was ousted, so he couldn't announced the by nervously. Asia has is their sights unrelated yeah fishing as Ukrainian Politic right right.
Then the questions was Maria monuments, acid, because and I'm I sent to this. They be no having read a lot of extremely bad spy novels and everything, but also knowing how the state farm works is that they got it into their heads. That Ivanovic was was working at cross purposes from Trump. Whatever those purposes were deemed to be, they could have been really bad purposes, like the Biden near the effort to suborn Ukraine, to the efforts to get Biden in trouble, or they could be that you know she was bad mouthing trump in places and they wanted evidence that you was bad
nothing Trump and somehow the sky hide. I dunno hired somebody to pack her phone or something who the hell knows. However, slices like good, I mean if you remove the president from this equation, I don't think anybody would say: okay, well, here's a conspiracy to harass aid, argue s, ambassador, the highest diplomatic official in Ukraine and in a very troubled part of the world and a compelling important part of the world U S interests and other anybody would look at that and say. Ah, whenever obeying, seems to be being harassed, she was being sir veiled. But that's no gets kind of hers you know what I mean if she didn't know then also at, she didn't, know everything. That's it it's Ass with harassment is making somebody come viewing reactive from a foreign hostile foreign power. I don't expect it from a government should serving
Port which, by the way it was simultaneously bad, mouthing her behind the scenes route, reducing her credibility with the tacit consent of the State Department was, she was treated really poorly, it's too well it's terrible, but it does not, but he's not gonna be removed from office because he exercised his his rights as the present United States to remove an ambassador like that's not. You know that leap, silver, the accusations that we're dealing with Yoda I'll get it that that can. Actually, let me ask you about the egg after Nancy's song of Hiawatha moment this morning, but when she then went on to a litany of all of them ever That is a since the house closer investigation, and I that struck me as is kind of a elite
item in the whole point of rushing everything was it you do it? It had to be rush. We had a girl is out there. We had we built a very strong case if the cases so strong and why she was in the press conference to continue with more ever really more evidence at which then raise the question and I guess Mcconnell had a meeting with some other said Republicans recently about this issue of witnesses. Because obviously the narrative, unless now is you know if the Republican Stone aloud calling of do witnesses than they own all this new stuff, that's emerging that you know it shows that their corrupt, etc, etc. On the other hand, opening up witnesses means you know. I think TED crews floated the idea to Mcconnell that that means a Republican should be able to call additional witnesses right, maybe you're gonna, if you're gonna retry some of the evidence or introduce new evidence than its only fair to to allow for some counterpoint to that's. I dont know what you all think of policy kind of piling on to the existing charges that undermine the case or does it
yet compelling. Well, it all depends on depends on the audience that you speaking too, and it also depends on the media atmosphere because, of course, what she is doing in saying and how she animals. This is going to get a lot of support from the mainstream media, whether that matters at this point were basically at that number. Forty seven in favour of rule forty seven percent opposed to remove all the x factor. Here is, if Republicans, if the harness revelations and other things sufficiently unnerved, four or five or six republican senators who do not want to have history say that day. You know that they somehow you now covered up more a part of a cover up or something like that. Then then you could see witnesses being called and then in theory it's a whole new ballgame. I mean- maybe not maybe it's a whole new ballgame, because trusts
they're still coming at sixty seven votes to to remove him, but they could get a few were HOLLAND's or more or a things could go haywire. You know they could call Rudy to testify, and he looks like a key is talking like a crazy person, and you could you know Colonel Jessup him. You know if you work, if you were skilled enough- and you know still did that the Tom cruise doesn't feel good memory gatherers. Jack Nicholson consciously people for yet this that whole scene work. Where you know crews says you know a tonne who says you know the truth, that the whole point its he's he's over acting deliberately in order to get Jessup to confess that he'd Tipp to tell the truth about what he was doing in them in the crime, in the case and a few good men and Rudy is certainly somebody you couldn't
could play that do others on acts of actors there, including, but I think all of this speaks of the fact that the policy in chef wildly mishandled this, both politically tactically and and ethically. If they had waited, if they hadn't rough for rush this, if they hadn't been convinced that they had to brush because of Iowa which, by the way, congratulations because they screwed up Iowa. Now, because they're gonna have the hearing next week, so you know then screwed up. That means binds gonna win or by their booty, judging or whatever, but you know screwed up for the senators you know if they had waited the stuff would have come out. There would have been a ruling on began and there will be other stuff, and then they could be doing this. In February with a lot more pudding.
A lot more meat on the bones. If there is need to be put on the bones of the Ukraine story, and they you know they screwed it up, they blew it. So there try. To make the Senate somehow so they're error, they can say doesn't matter because the justice requires in the constitution and we need to know and all that and and and and fine, but you can't expect you cannot it is. It is an unreasonable, if not a moral question, but to expect a political party to go at to be the been Republicans to be the force that goes at the juggler of the head of their party,
Who is the president? I had states, I may interest that has never happen. It will never happen. It didn't happen, Watergate, that's not how it happened, and so they they look. They can do there's a reason why that Vice President Ashton preside over the senator impeachment process or they can you know there are two people were that they can go back and and and and hear more witnesses. So there's a lot of his eyes now. Further republicans. If there were to play the game, the TED cruises advocating the Hunter Biden Card yeah, it's I did they. A very politically descended advantageous narrative by moving for a speedy acquittal with no witnesses considering. One of them is John Bolton, whose begging to testify at this point the lonely Paula saw recently, I think, was Quinnapin, which actually showed a plurality of republicans wanna hear from jump. Which only makes sense because the guy's sane,
have stuff to say, and if they were to try to do, though, the ok we'll give you John Bolton. Four hundred Biden thing. It risks one of the things that Democrats were concerned about which is litigating, the twenty twenty election in a venue populated by very unpopular people and a very unpopular institution. If I were the Democrats, I would be very loath to assume that, John Boltons testimony was going to strengthen their hand- Weena, probably not out. No, but I mean I, there seems to be a kind of it's a little dollar ash, it's a little where we're not that they're like an alliance eyes, Bolton because they're not, but this. If we can only get acts, then why? What? happen if only Bawler knows everything and healed and when he opens a mouth that'll, be it for Trump. And then they work with their hopes were crushed
you know against the Shangri that underlies the risk of trying to play politics with that moment and overshadow what could be a very substantive and advantageous stuff set a fax laid out by jumble than if it works just fine, but where there is also this fact we were having a bit of an argument here, not that any of us is a constitutional scholar, but your trumpets said that he is wants to prevent Bolton from testifying before them before the impeachment trial on executive privilege grounds, and I believe, though, I am not skilled, like expert in this- that that will not stand that executive privilege cannot be used to interfere with the conduct of
the impeachment trial impeachment, is a weird x factor. Proceeding that exists has a constitutional has exists in the constitution. It proceeds everything, including the theory of executive privilege, costs in the constitution and in the notion that you he he could say, I cannot. I will, as the executive, not allow my national scary visor to testify before the before this trial. When he has been subpoenaed, I believe the Supreme Court, go into session and would rule against him and would go into session that day and rule against him. Yes, so we don't even know, I'm in the argument was that Democrats had subpoenaed done again and they got a favourable ruling weighing the need of the extraordinary nature of impeachment versus the executive privilege
and they got one favourable really. It was in an appeals court when the articles were passing. Appeals court said, while the venues close or not litigating this anymore, pretty much the same with Coppermine, whose bond jumble and deputy Democrats withdrew. That's subpoena in November, and the court mooted the case after articles pass at okay there's. No, not only is there no speaking in front of me, but there's no venue, so I'm obviously not going to let it get this either, which was what Democrats apparently wanted that was going to pertain to whether or not John Bolton could testify if he was the pain and he was never subpoenaed right now. So then, my question was whether or not this if, let's say the Santa Claus witnesses now, does this go to the district and a pellet level? And you say no Those rightly saying goes right to the Supreme Court, because the direct confrontation between the executive and legislative branches is supposed to be a duty. By which I don't understand, because this house's the legislator branch now, but that but the house, ok, but the house hold on
Now I want to find the language of the description of locking up now we do I do now. I I do know what I'm talking about that that the Supreme Court- it's not. There. There can be a process according to which that's, not the house. That's a committee of the House, it's not the house, the house, Representatives of voted to impeach the president that trial is now, That is a this of the trial is in the Senate. There is a confrontation between Capital Hill and the white even if the senators are in the majority Party of the President's, since the constitution did not invite politically the existence of political parties. They it proceeds, political parties. This is not an issue if the Senate wishes to call witten, is there? Is this whole line that will send a can call witnesses shouldn't eyewitnesses, because the house calls the witnesses in the Senate? Here's the evidence.
But apparently a simple majority vote in the house. Can the Santa can override that the Seneca your witnesses? If this? what's your witnesses, the President's saying this guy- I will not allow the sky to testify. Now may The guy is Bolton and he doesn't Bolton says he will testify few subpoenaed. Why does he say that? Because he believes as a lawyer that he doesn't have a like to stand on not to testify? And we also know that he doesn't seem to want to reveal what it is that he had to say because he could do it any better, do it tomorrow. But do you know how the press conference tomorrow that the chief justice records the presiding officer at the at the impeachment trial? There is no. What is he and supposed to bow before of a lower court. I mean I'm just saying that there are, but there are moments are emergency moments when the Supreme Court has to go into
action to rule on things that only a can rule on- and I think that this might my supposition is that this would be- would be one of those, since there is no precedent by the way. That would also speak to the Supreme Court. You know agreeing voting itself on bank to hear or not here. So if we weren't able there's no precedent- and this is the most important matter- facing the country. We ultimately will come to us anyway, so that which is why do we have to go through some ridiculous process? This is going on now, and the good working order of the federal government is being interfered with. The president is distracted and high in the Senate is, you, know, is inactive, except for this matter and cant do any other business and while the patron trials going on all of that, there is a case for immediate, really Ito: immediate relief. Basically judicial
but that case existed for the subpoena done again. No because I want to go, there is constant. Now. Has the house skins do seventy five thousand other things, while this is going on. The Senate cannot do anything else, while the impeach trial was going on. You are freezing american politics and place freezing the government a place. That's that's my that's my presumption we will hear from. I will I expect to hear from our friend Adam White, who will tell me if I'm right wrong and if I'm wrong, I'm I will. I will really have neither up to it. Ok, a play play consular Christine. You have hd Christine. Did you know you're the only one of us with a phd do something I can. Would you like rise without that now able to take this? It was not that that is not how you gimme he won't anyway,
so I said, menace re has no, I mean actually, I think Adam Adams White will tell us what we need to know about the legal and constitutional question, but I'm still coming back to this issue of was a good political gamble for the house to really Russia is an I'm I'm with you, John? I think it wasn't. I think that they should have waited. They should have gathered more evidence and I think that their case actually seems a little more there's more of a whiff of desperation. I felt it watching Nancy policies, press conferences morning. Nobody, where were you where you in this something about time and poetry, and I'm telling you, with the song of Hiawatha she's the old lady, pointing her finger westward here. What we should explain to people what we're talking about so home Pelosi got up. She said she said does the moment beaming reboot the vote to web. Send the articles impeachment the Senate. This is the
tie that at the founders and poets dreams for something and then she named checks Longfellow a nurse. She quoted the preamble to the constitution, Then she quoted Thomas pain. Then she quoted midnight right of Paul Revere. Then she quoted Longfellow and song of Hiawatha- and it was like a bugs bunny- was like the references were like the music and bugs Bunny Khartoum like the first. They resumed their barbarous Seville, then there's bognor, then there's no none of it follow. Oh like how these of the ito how's your trap? I think she is actually trying to sound it was. It is an attempt at gravitas at a moment that wasn't really a gravitas. Momently get your
balancing the people who are going to move ahead with this. The managers of this case is it just seemed off like rats or she's like going on about Gucci, Gumi and the end of April, and seventy five and all that it than Adam Shift gets up and said, miss the candles, bad image, but Conall Miss Connell Gonna Mitch, because we have to make sure that mutual conall doesn't get to Mitch Mcconnell Mitch Mcconnell. So that was enough from the you know that for collection of american bad Nineteenth Century american poetry. You have just started cutting the jabberwock gave her yeah But again. I also think that, with her emphasis on time and marking time, she kept saying and the President has been impeach in that, and that is forever. I think is also a way of saying: will look he's not gonna be removed, but this is this. Is it Orton. The olive it three historical record. Yet I was Susan, quoting Billy Joel there.
I love you and that's forever. This item from the heart this page, you any better. Doesn't it then play into trumps narrative if she, if they're saying We know this is all a kind of passion play it. It's all political theater, but it's him to do so that our record looks correct, rather than I mean that plays into his argument to his base that this is all you know as a witch hunt, rather than be that's where I think them there's out there been a lot of mixed messages from the Democrats about doing I think they do have a strong argument to make about their constitutional duty and so when they should have stuck to, but they seem to be all over the map. With this I mean it just I dont think they ve had that. Consist
and integrity message that they would like the american public take to take away from this. I just don't know how you look at what's goin on over the last six weeks and the fact that the numbers didn't move and the polling and various other things and say that they handled the impeachment matter. Well, simply as a matter of politics, they handled badly, they fear was meant. It was a misconceived notion that they could simply by asserting their right to impeach, that they could move the needle. Among you know that among persuadable Americans they apparently did not do so. We actually know that their their issues on what.
That the numbers are much can't can be much more ambiguous, like you're on where there's a lot of where there is a lot of movement on the margins, and there was like no moving on the margins in impeachment after the first after the first revelations of what happened in Ukraine, when there was a ten percent jump in the number of Americans who thought that he should be impeached, and that was that that's basically admits haven't gone over. Fifty won't go over fifty and then the end. You need sixty seven percent of the Senate to remove him from office. So the average, as we speak from according to Fivethirtyeight of do Americans support impeaching. The president is forty, nine. Ninety four thousand and fifty nine relevant now cuz. He is impeached. The number who support removing him according to five hundred and thirty eight average is forty six point six
right. So for many people, impeachment firm or at least a number of people impeachment was like was the punishment and they don't think the punishment to go further than that and there's you know, there's something sort of implicitly but Pelosi saying when she says impeachment is forever like they can't take that away from me. You know Couldn't other song lyric anywhere gay were we're, done were done with the doggerel, we're done with this by gas for eighty Philip had Christina jump out or its keep the gamble burn
Transcript generated on 2020-02-25.