The president faces a growing scandal around his response to the allegation that Russia offered bounties to Taliban insurgents for the killing of U.S. troops. But how sound is that intelligence and why do we know about it? Also, Joe Biden skates without any scrutiny of his rapidly self-radicalizing political coalition, but how long can he get away with it? Will the revolution dissolve if he wins in November?
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Welcome to the Commentary Magazine Daily podcast today is Tuesday June 30th, two thousand and twenty. I am John Podhoretz, the editor of Commentary magazine the seventy five year old, monthly of intellectual analysis, political probity and cultural criticism from a conservative perspective, we invite you to join us. A commentary magazine dot com, or we give you a few free, reeds and ask you to subscribe and with me, As always executive editor, a green waldheim, I jump Senor, writer, steam Rosen high. Christine hygiene An associate editor, no arrangement high on our agenda,
so the though the story about the Russians paying the Taliban, a bounty to kill Americans and whether or not the Trump White House and trumpet the Trump Administration have responded to it at all or appropriately are adequately both is getting deeper and murky at the same time deeper, because we are now told that some spect of the story, was known as early as February twenty nineteen. We are then told that Trump was certainly brief debate either verbally or on paper some time earlier this year, and so this whole question of whether or not they simply refuse to act on a hostile government. That Trump doesn't want to be particularly hostile toward
looking to have Americans killed whether you know something terrible is gone on their its murky here because, according to the Associated Press last night, the details of the story are that there was a rumour that this was happening in twenty nineteen and in twenty twenty, A Taliban hide out was found by american intelligence where there was half a million dollars in cash, and so there is an x drop elation that they got the half a million dollars in cash from the Russians as a bounty for killing Americans But from what I read, there is no evidence that this money is connected to that. This is just a theory that
Somebody has about why they had half a million dollars lying around in this Taliban stronghold. So the central problem with the story, which is that we again have a game of telephone with people leaking and then the leaking, and some people telling Catherine Heritage of CBS that Trump was not briefed on other people saying the trunk was briefed that its very murky, and yet I dont think that anybody is treating this in the press as though it is murky at all, and certainly Democrats aren't you, as though it's all that murky Democrats or not, but I don't think it's fair to say that the press is doing that. I was. I didn't MSNBC had last night with report according to be who framed the issue of very well, which is that there is some people to say. This is pretty salad, intelligence and others who say it's not. And that's the state of play right now and that's why none of us should know anything about this debate.
Story here is the leak. There's planning reasons why you wouldn't adjudicate this issue in public. First, while being this intelligence very raw, nobody can apparently confirm it. Wouldn't want to adjudicate an issue where you don't have rock solid incontrovertible evidence in public, because aid be very embarrassing and be, you can rapidly become an international incident that spirals out your control and that's not something that any strategic plainer would want to do. You want to keep this quiet while you track these plots, interdict them collectively. It's them develop a kind of case that you need to make in order to justify the action that were seeing right now from the political class right and left. Republicans are all over time for this to look at its very an incendiary allegation, one that demands a response. But I don't put a pessimist. Gotta, do something like this perfectly in keeping with their behaviour and further they would justify the Kremlin by suggesting that well, the United States is paying all these
groups in Syria, which are targeted russian soldiers, Abe yeah, means the leaks all through the drug administration. I have been disgraceful, problematic and dangerous. I looked back to the Obama administration when there was to serve the only common, The thing I can cut remembers there is this: movement among intelligence officials who started saying that the the Intel defeating ISIS has been to sunny sort of cocked a little. Because that's what the White House wanted? That's what the Obama White House had wanted to portray an air, One came down on the intelligence community. Back then forest you know going to keep going against the the
beyond the Obama line at the time were a long way away from I should also added, if it that the new story has become more murky, also because the Pentagon says that they can't confirmed that that the that the Russians well, that that there is a russian payment involve. In any case, so basically here's the point I mean the proof is that there's money in Taliban hands there's american cash and Taliban and I dont understand how that's proof of anything I mean Taliban deal drugs tell they do all kinds of things. I I you know that they might have a lot of cash some hand. We know that most goes out. Surprising happened. It's coming from Moscow. According to american intelligence officials have been saying. The Obama errant. How did they know down this? Money comes from Moscow
I'm all. They know. Migrants from Moscow and other material support in the form of weapons in cash comes from Moscow. They don't. I don't know a thing out within another. You none of us now right up talking about the details in the AP story that are intended to confirm that say that american suspicions, at this have dated back. You know a year and a half, but that the coup de Graf seems to be the discovery of cash. That's it the discovery of cash, and then you can say well where this gas come from. It could come from. You know so, Heroin to somebody or it could come from Moscow and it could be because a couple of Americans were killed in Kabul and maybe they were killed for that. Then they got the cash, and this is the cash if they got from that. That is not a that is not a fact. Shame! You know that is a kind of them series of extrapolations that that don't create the sense. Oh
Also in twenty nineteen, according to the AP, it was also deemed so sketchy that no one ran up the flagpole I mean that's again. This is what the associate press says that that they had some inkling of something or other, but it never went any further than the sort of them the basic intelligence analysis level, because there was no nothing to it, then what is it all? This gets exactly to wine too, knows point about wide, so so dangerous that TIM To have this raw intel become this public. Publicly adjudicated story well as though we already know from certainly from the experience of how the Obama administration dealt with IRAN and how the press dealt with the Obama administration. We know that there is an incentive on the part of Democrats too, to two very selectively embrace leaks.
About Trump and Russia that service a narrative, that's already in place, which is bad in this case in particular, because if this is in fact, if the intelligence is correct- and this is happening, the rope the kids are right to pounce on untrodden and criticise his administration for not acting on this, but that the medium and an intriguing. I d political strategy that the Democrats in Congress in particular right now are pursuing with regard to this, because it seems fairly inconsistent with their previous attitudes about leaks on an intelligence. Me look the backdrop of all this, which has a lot of Republicans jumping ship, including people. It was shining saying another meeting with the president knew what he did Is it the president's deteriorating political opposition and be his his willingness to entertain the notion that we should be shepherding Moscow back into the community of nations, reintegrating them into the G8 when there's no
This has to do that they should have been a pariah state a long time ago, and republican frustration with the president is rooted in principle. The objections to his sacrificing of a grand strategic objective, an inert, ran strategic objective, which is the isolation of Moscow, the limiting of its capacity, the containing of its capacity to export of it's worth the destabilizing activity across the world, the republican frustrations, building up around a whole lot of other things. How do you do with Russia? The probably has very little to do with this particular you there's also a mean, and it's been known for for a long time. The trump tend not to read the paper briefings right. He D. He ignores the written intelligence briefs and just wants to hear that the boiled down spoken bullet points are the most hot, a most important things, that's not good and that that is that has come to sort of by them here in that he he might have been briefed on paper.
In this, but simply never read it, and but then, because of the conflicting interpretations of the intelligence it with it never rose. The story never rose to the level of having him of being briefed in person. If, if that's the actual accurate version of things, it is also important for american official like Gina Haswell, the director of the CIA and the defence Secretary Esper, at how the joint use of staff to reassure american forces that we that the politicians in Washington and them, and the officials in Washington have their back so poor pulling. The story seems to be less important to them for good reasons, then, to reassure our troops in Afghanistan that we're doing everything we can to make sure stuff like this, isn't happening to solidify the intelligence, to keep them safe, which does not count.
Verify the story, not that the story requires clarification and only requires clarification, because there is a we're going to be a relentless drumbeat about this until the next outbreak baby comes in, supersedes it, but the political strategy here this is. What lies Cheney him and the Republicans are pursuing, but that the Democrats and the media are pursuing. The political strategy here is trump you know is, is is reeling backward? You know is he is in the boxing ring. He is reeling. He is his right action times or off he's looking, you know bloodied and an end like they are just go in it. They're gonna go with an upper cuts. Are gonna go in with us. You know, though, with a shot to the side. They're gonna
whatever they can't keep him off, balance he's wounded and they are going to try to extend past. Or to bring him down as early as possible. Now that again, I know this is not a liberal strategy. No one is sitting around planning. It is just the natural logic of the situation. That is so you know at it. This just happened come along at a moment at which Sir of the other stories were getting a little old and a little repetitive, you now the protests and of this and that have the other thing and then maybe this stuff looks doesn't look so great. All the statue toppling and then the topic- doctors of abolitionists and heroes and defacing the robber girl, Cha statue in Boston.
All that, and so suddenly, mystically and a new story emerges out of nowhere. That just will occupy delete media's attention for a week and that it is really is in some ways, if you think about it, it's a fantastic political hit because they can't address it. Right had on because the only way to address it in on is to sort of brake intelligence code and do that he fell and say that's not what it says. This is what we now we're not gonna do that we don't do that even Trump who was very disrespectful of intelligence norms, isn't really gonna do that, and so it is it's almost unanswerable. It's like a kind of trick shot it out that you can't really hit back. You know so get out you gotta, give you gotta give the resort
school enemies of trump some credit here at at Rio and how their mixing it up, as as he as he experiences this pseudo terrible. You know dip in the slaughter of despond, I don't like, have that the thing that emerged about trumpet the past three years that that it's odd to me that from himself hasn't realize that figure this out about him. Isn t he was quite a powerful candidate with his defensive per The right, you know they're all day they hate us, I'm I'm here to represent you because they looked down on you, etc, etc, but he's actually, when he's on the defensive, about a particular policy, he's extremely bad responding. So the funny thing is that what he must still continue to see his defensive overreactions two things is positive, because it did in fact work for him. Is it as a candidate in twenty sixteen, but every did it is strategically and smart to keep putting them on the spot about new things, because he is not good and his people.
Aren't good at keeping him focusing discipline, so he it he's very reactive, so more ease her out of the more he s to react. In the worse he looks, and in fact we in that started in a matter of substantively whether he is reacting correctly or not is just he just seems like he doesn't have control of any situation right now. So that's good. Can we talk a little about chopped as Chaz Chop, the adorable autonomous. Neighbourhood, in some in in Seattle, between where assured by Seattle, Mayor Jenny, darken you now was what democracy, he looked like, and it was fine that that they were seeding authority to this self appointed rabble
all over the neighbourhood to do with what they would, because you know it's made, but just a street fair, just a big party and a wonderful street fair and now fourteen year old, has been murdered and a sixteen year old is incredible condition in the hospital after a couple of other extremely violent incidents, and we know that in at least in one of the earlier violent incidents that the police and and health lab ambulances and stuff couldn't get through, because the S face and yet accuracy. Ok, sorry and the fourteen year, almost critical England, and I apologize for good the ages wrong. So we have the mayor of a major city in the United States play talking happy talk about the area of her own city, which was being defaced end,
vandalized and burgled end and and ruined, whereby there, Businesses and there are about apartments and all that and now people are actually getting killed and not just people like kids are getting killed, em and how Isn't she gonna like be impeached, shouldn't sheep shouldn't. She loser jot shouldn't. She, we don't arrest elected officials, for you know like burner. You know it being an accomplished the burner and slaughter, but for the political decisions they make. But surely there will have to be caught quences. Here a city is already being sued by someone who was injured in the autonomous zone, he's claiming that the city's fault that he wasn't treated appropriately and He's now suing the city and she is.
Finally getting criticism from the left, she's been getting it suddenly from the rights since she called Chaz Block Party. But now the left, leaning folks on the city council, are calling for her to resign because she's clearly let this we should get out of hand and there have been what has been six people had been shot. You know one fatally so today, The violence has been consistent throughout which, of course, a lot of us on the conservative part of the political aspect. Were warning would be the case. But I, whether there is enough political will on that city Council, which is a very liberal, abysses, very liberal city, remains to be seen. I thought that last week she hadn't said she was gonna shut it down you don't just over a week, it said that the police would eventually make their way over there to proactively de escalate interactions are within the first Margaret. The first murder was over a week ago, which prompted this so about fate. Right, You know that it wasn't it, but it wasn't a kid it wasn't. Wasn't it somebody who had not attained
The first murder was at least but it would not attain their majority at the appeal. The thoroughly limbs next year's almost singer. Looking well, or should I say, majority age, but just barely run, just barely a part of the thoroughly maddening thing about this. Is that, while its producing these terrific tragic results, there is something that is totally sort of cosplay about this? That remains the case. This is fake it to some extent, there is no oppressive regime in Seattle, that that needs resisting it's. It's like the war reenactment with loaded weapons. I shall add why they chose that. I mean the choice of the name. Autonomous zone was, though its defunct How was relatively accurate autonomous zones exist at the pleasure of their host governments. They have some relative autumn.
For whenever religious affinities they want to pursue or whatever political structure they would like, but they exist at the pleasure of the governments against which they are hostile towards. And that's the same thing that happened here is that this this exists at the pleasure of Seattle authorities. Well it's an interesting next wave of particularly a brawl liberal signs on these debates having to confront the reality of what they thought would be a utopia. So here in DC, I I showed you guys, the Saint John, the pistol church, which has been very pro protest and you know who's. Leader came out very strongly against Trump for doing the photo up in front of the church. The offence had to be erected around the church last week to Britain it was being vandalized. It was several arson. Attempts have been made today finally sent us here, community, let her out where they they were clearly pain. It clearly paying them to acknowledge that people were devastating on the church.
In trying to set up a little autonomous zone. You know akin to Chad and basically destroying property and really threatening, and one of the things they mentioned is that the people who work in the church were physically. You know felt threatened when they tried to come into the church to their job, so they ve, they ve basically admitted that they needed law enforcement to protect their building. And there and their staff, but they it was clearly driving the mad that they had to acknowledge that and that sort of painful reckoning is happening inside I was well, but it's gonna have to happen in a lot more places with a lot less extreme circumstances than a Chaz before the country starts. Coming down. I think this is what I was: I'm gonna reference, the group transfer. You know what to do this. You know we have a whole lot of episodes now of democratic officials behaving badly and should be like a video series and
going back in history, because I try to remember how Republicans of all stripes were asked to comment on. Whatever fleeting controversy occurred since even very trivial counter she's occurred when a republican official was involved in the press with descend upon every Republican and ask them to comment on these. These issues are just like a few. There was going back in time the examining Representative Chris Lee, you posted a picture on Craigslist shirt, Listen had to resign Erin Shocks, campaign staffers in his obvious nam, misuse of campaign funds, my crap of junk driving, tray right else, coke habit. I mean all this stuff dominated news coverage in every Republican had to go on there heard enough, they didn't go on the record. It was essentially going on the record with their silence, which was tacit consent. There is simply no effort to force Joe Biden on the record on all of these issues, not
Chaz, but the increasing violence crime in the city is, along with these cities, just essentially dismantling their police forces at the same time- and you know like democratic officials. Now you have the decency deleting a tweet saying the weight and Mount Rushmore is at an end, a monument to wait, supremacy in these sorts of things. Our parliament should be asked about? I have my deleted tweet rule, so that sort of an admission of fault, but you would say the same thing about Donald Trump, deleting the White Power tweet right I mean that's a indicative of some sort of a thought process that we need to tease out and the same person done here, but the effort its and it is an effort, a concerted effort on the part of the press to avoid asking about the coalition, my Joe Biden, is lying to lead and what he thinks at this coalition that he is leading is herculean. At that point and
this is where the brilliance of the Post George Floyd protest strategy against the media inside the media, where you can see its brilliance, because if there were such an impulse, if there was an idea that it was a good idea for a grand aggressive reporter You know in Washington to go to Capital Hill and grab people as their walking down the hallway and say how do you respond to this? What do you think of it, How are you doing that? You know all about the crime surge the city. Council in Minneapolis having to be protected by private security because they're getting threats where each
as chop. All of that right, no reporter is safe doing that now, because in the world of the truth, verses, objectivity, The deep truth, of course, is that the protests are on the side of the angels, the the occupiers or on the side of the angels, and if you try to go at these kinds of questions, you are therefore citing effectively overtime with Tom Cotton and you should be gone after people can say that your reporting is making them feel unsafe and then Europe and then you're dead. So there is now an internal son, to ship mechanism, there always has been there always is in the world, where there's conventional wisdom that tilts to the left. But now
you have literally people who would rightfully fear for their jobs for doing their job in a manner in which they would both get attention. And in which the stories would actually be good and might produce interesting information so that to to interested parties somewhere in in among the liberal left, who dont want to press anyone about this. If, if you are just a blatant supporter of the radicals, you you're in our interest usage, as John just said in painting. All of this is good and mostly peace, follow and and the rest of it If you desperately want Biden in detail to win, because you think he
it will will restore order insanity to the country and even the end and you're, not on board with the fringy violence of the left. You dont want this to come up because you don't want to press him to do to you, want him to be put into a bad situation. So there is, is this intertwined effort absolutely tamping down any questions among liberals or the left about this erodes interesting, as the people keeps comparing Biden to Hilary and trumps treatment. Trump, looking to figure out how to Hilary Eyes, Biden and all of that, but you know, simple fact that matters of Hilary was very good odor. She was very good shape after twenty thirteen, she was viewed positively by sixty five percent of the country,
after after she stepped down a secretary of state and her miss behaviour, was so egregious that it could not be ignored. That is, She wept cheap. They ran the Clinton Foundation as up as a private. Some weird kind of private influence, piggy bank thing she was Taking all this money from Wall Street, and then when questioned started arising rising about her about her email servers, Her handling of it with reporter was calamitous in a way that made it impossible for them to shut the door on the story right. There was famous, this famous press conference. She did at the U N, in March of of twenty fifteen, that sickly started, making it clear that she was a highly problematic candidate. She did it to herself in a way that made it impossible for them to. You know ignore
one of the ways in which you can tell that Abiden is going to be a very hard target for Trump. Having already played the Hunter Biden Card, you know in in the fall of last year very heavily in order to serve as a counterweight to his own. Ukraine story is that Abiden not handing him any ammunition and. There is no incentive and a negative incentive, as Abe says, for the mainstream media to provide trump with the ammunition. There was no way for it to be avoided and Hilary case, but Biden is proving very adept in his own way, at avoiding providing fodder against himself any trumps Hollis and beat that it's probably
from the thing is way out, but in others something to be said for inoculating Biden against this issue. I mean, if he'd spaces, no questions about it from the press because afraid of the of the scenario that you outline, which, as you know, the sub text of that, is that, if you dare ask him about it, he might screw up, and then you have asked him again, which is by the way what journalism is and we are supposed to do as a reporter, but gets under way stage. Having not faced any of these questions and Donald Trump peppers him with what about this Dnc tweet about Rushmore? What about the other Chaz and the lawsuits? What about that define the police and rice. Crime. What about the lawlessness that is clearly deferential to Democrats in a way that all these questions- and he doesn't have a south solid answer for that? Then it becomes a new cycle in late September as opposed to it.
Well, it doesn't even have to be that sophisticated. A number of questions he only to do is ask Joe Joe Biden do think George Washington was a was a racist. Do you think we should leave it? but he would bring noted. I mean that's an easy one. If he went that way, then that would be the end of the issue, because you could demagoguery knock the violence he's gonna have a hard time was because he hasn't, he has a history with with crime legislation. Biden does he has which, which has left flank, does not like and there's a lot of policy making talk in the air right now, which will continue through the fall about how to deal with law enforcement and his isn't gonna plan Disney. I mean what what is he going to say he does substance. Italy have to offer something to voters about law enforcement before the election. Maybe here's another thought about this trump doesn't ask too many questions during a debate there they're not going to have interactions between each other that
The way debates work having trump you know, sometimes you'd have said you're a terrible woman or whenever he said to the hill awful. What what did he say? Taylor, honourable harm one ass. Any man gave her now whenever ok, but you know he doesn't have, he doesn't have a given. Take. He doesn't know how to set up by and for the kill like. That's not, he could just insulted but we have no evidence that he knows how to play that game. What what happened in the democratic debates that help buying a long was that you reporters there who were asking tough questions of Democrats on on hot button issues that day ghetto sought to go far to the left on and then say will how are you going to pay for your healthcare plan right that wasn't Biden asking how they're going to pay for the healthcare plan? That was that was reporters. So now go into the debates and let's say there were three of them if they ever happen
What is the incentive for reporters who do not work for Fox to ask tough questions of binding, Ordinarily, you would say there would be a lot of it sent like this is how you get so interesting and you show your it independent you're, not you're, more ideologically heterodox then Whatever you want to do that, you want to give him a shot whatever. That is not the atmosphere at the moment. The atmosphere at the moment is Trump must go, truck must go, and if you, if you dare do something that might impede the trump must go moment on that wonderful, social, media, organ called twitter. You are gonna, get twenty five thousand people saying you're a monster. You are you: are you you, Jake Tapir are going to destroy this country. You have just destroyed this country. You are
ruining America. We will never watch you again, I'm organizing a boycott. You were too nice to trump NOS eight Warren, vulnerable to some extent does and the people have to worry about it. The cover he's just unit whose name you don't know who walks Congress every day in trolls all's for quotes. Those are the people who who are vulnerable a really. You don't think you don't think gum. Jimmy Fallon was vulnerable to the accusation that he was nice to trumpet twenties. Steam am basically had a gigantic social media campaign against him that them shot Stephen Colbert out of him in the ratings. But that I mean this is a real. Yes, that happen. Is that every avenue still on the area? The only thing I ve gotten to apologize was the black face thing than he did for us now to another that you know that you're actually wrong about this, like he became, went from number one to number. Two that is like
very bad in the in the universe of people who live in that universe. Like that's the worst thing that can happen, it's like a living death, and anyone in tv knows that that's not the way you want to go with your career There are lessons to be learned here, while I think to the point about the copper porter, though I think it's worth. This is why this This turned towards journalists should be moral arbiters of the culture which you know West Lowry, and on a lot of these other writers have been clay. In particular with regard to reporting about but it has a broader message to someone who doesn't see themselves as a journalist as a moral, crusader or activists as well, which is that if you ve, if the culture of journalism becomes a kind of moral activism. Then, if you don't participate your your de facto immoral and that's the part about it that that's! Why?
they're going after this idea of objectivity, which no one in their right mind thinks his urban pure in journalism- it's the ideal, but if the ideal shifts from object to moral purity, then you have to participate. You just have to there's! No, because there's no alternate. So if you, if you don't participating objectivity, you can do you know something you can do opinion journalism or something else. But that's that's. I think why the cub reporter point is important, because down the lens, gonna matter ok, let me a step back and talk to you about our sponsor today, Gabby Insurance, very nice of you to come along him and help us and we're going are they help them by telling you that we are all looking for ways to save money, especially now so when's? The last time we looked at how much you're spending every month on car unsure homeowners insurance. Now is the time to check out Gabby
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we are on average. If they can't find you the savings, the late you know, so you can relax knowing you still have the best right out there and they'll never sell your info. So no annoying. Samarova calls its totally free to check your raven. There's no obligation take two minutes right now to see how much you can save on your car, homers insurance, gotta, Gabby, Dotcom, slashed commentary, that's g, a b, I dot com, Slash commentary, Gabby, dot com, slash commentary not to get to parochial idea. But I think this is part of the larger story, New York City, a couple things are happening. The City Council, a mayor, appear to have agreed on a cut in the police budget of one billion dollars out of six billion, that is part of the budget line of the for the Mr Harbour, the New York City, which has a budget of nearly a hundred billion dollars annually by the way, so
It is not. You know it's not quite as large in percentage terms as it might sound. This cut this one six cut, apparently as a bit of a fiction, because the largest chunk of it, which is about half a billion dollars, will go from moving school safety officers out of the police department and into the education department, thus making it appear as though the police departments budget has been cut by five hundred million dollars, but in no one is gonna, get laid off their just being put in a different silo right, but so they're still half a million dollars, half a billion dollars that is going to be cut from the police budget and what is happening in New York. While this is happening well, there have been, I believe, the now. Or is there has been an increase in shootings in New York City of a hot, twenty seven percent this week compared with last week. Ok, there were twenty six and twenty nineteen there,
for sixty in twenty twenty shootings and why what What is this go along hand in hand with the disbanding of the plain clothes unit whose purpose is to get guns off the strict gay, so in the Bronx, ah yes branded. Hendricks, a seventeen year old was killed, was killed, walking down the street a very strange and as yet unclear event happened where in in Brooklyn, a man and a woman were shot dead in in broad daylight. By some Ex was saying in a car wearing a blonde wig and shot them within a k it with an air fifteen. We have no idea what that is about prior week by the way twelve shootings in New York and twenty.
One thousand nine hundred and fifty five in twenty slash twenty. So the city is undergoing this huge crime surge. There is no question that this is happening. And the mayor and the City Council, some people, and so the council are complaining that the cuts do not go far enough and part of the way they're going to deal with this now, there's also a giant budgetary crisis about to hit the city, obviously because of the pandemic and the economic costs related to it is there You know as cops retire. They're, not gonna, be those jobs. Those jobs are going to be traded, so the department which is already down about three thousand officers from its high its now that thirty six thousand at its height of about thirty nine thousand, is going into decline in absolute numbers and will continue to decline in part again because there's some ways: no real choice, given the
nightmarish economic problem, but just as there is a crime surge- and I don't really understand- how public officials can actually Oh and there's also a Sienna Paul that says that sixty percent of New Yorkers oppose cuts in crime and opposed to funding the police that's a real racial break down. Their seventy percent of white say don't and twenty seven percent of African Americans say: don't worse, fifty percent african Americans say do, but it's still there, happen. Obviously just a word on the on the the blonde wig shooting and similar stories. There's kind of this response that trust
downplay, the shootings some of those by saying. Well it it's that's it. That's a personal debt was a personal beef. So therefore it's her weird and and therefore anomalous and so not not something that we would normally have to worry about, but the whole. But that is simply incorrect, because the whole point of the plain clothes units is to get the guns off the streets, so those things, whether they be personal or not or or gang related, which is certainly something to worry about, don't happen this. This is a direct result of of of those things happening, and I think that the larger question a lot of stuff you read from the from from people who word talking about the funding the police. Now they act as if crime, as we understand it, is a kind of fiction. You know that this this thing has been cooked up this. This. This crime issue is not real. And if you get rid of the police, you will see then that that bad,
crime, as we understand it will vanish and clearly the b b that bit the theory put to test is is failing The question is when you're so invested in in such a radical framing of this. How can you walk back? Won't we don't have a very good way to measure the deterrent effect of how more officers on the street, doing their jobs well, except to look at the crime rate right. If you pull back on plainclothes units in you, pull back on, and broke up smoking and beat or the number of gaps you are leaving the cook number people becoming cups decreases. It's you know we have. Statistics on went to crime is committed, but we don't have good statistics on the crimes prevented, and I think that's why that this idea that, if you just you know through social workers at people and
make sure that we don't we get rid of like low level drug offences. You know prosecution and there's a whole laundry list of things and, of course it's gonna, be, I think they are. You can see a year from now, as crime rates can too just skyrocketed and trouble is so brewing. The same argument, we see when, when you know about socialism, the real so this has been trying to do- is we haven't on every single thing on my list once we ve done everything on my list, then real socialism. I think we're seeing that with this defined the police effort. Once everything is on. Our list is done is fine, but if you just take money away from the cops, but you don't all these other things, which of course, very few cities have the money to do right now can't really say that you can judge our success yet, and I fear that this kind of way of reasoning. Is gonna, have a real body count a year from now no. Let me ask you you you, you have said on this podcast that a great many issues that we hold
The crises in America that are unresolved bowl and disastrous in every way a Biden victory will mean the mysteriously Evan ass into the ether that they like really been raised. As a They are a there, a species of of trump bashing, let's say- or or there as they are. They are a species of America's horrible as long as trumps present, but one sees no longer. President hope is live again. Everything is good and then we're gonna start focusing on the positive and not on the negative. Do you think in the case of crime and and that stuff that that Biden that abide? We can tap down some of this madness or, or is it now does not have its own independent existence and, as I think Trump
we'll try to argue from now until November. That abiden victory is only going to accelerate the problems that we are seeing because he will have no ability to fight his own saw I'd on on these matters, too. Tough question, I think a lot of this is a moral panic and moral panics are not contrivances. You people engage them genuinely, are panicked and believe that whatever activity there doing is beneficial and responds to a societal ill pretty sure then everybody whose cancelling the golden girls really genuinely you shot him full of sodium Pentothal. If you get gave him a true serum that they wouldn't say that this is actually helping anything but their activity, is that they're doing are perceived to be? They dig
receive them to be ills, they think they're helping. So yes, I think that right now, the true believers who do believe and defend the police- and that no to replace every every officer with some sort of a social worker. Those true believers will still be true believers, but the voices that are opposed to that sort of thing. The tax base, for example the majority of american voters will become will get their microphones back. You know this is like a runaway train and there's no there's no curb what a runaway horse there's no corralling it, I think knows about right so had around her, and I don't know, I guess Christine. What do you guys think is this? Is this like a run away? You know this is like a runaway train and there's no there's no call our what a runaway horse there's no corralling it, I think, knows about right,
but somehow or other I don't know. I guess it is. It is a very tough question, but maybe I'll answer that by pointing to something you said earlier, the responsibility and obligation of the media, for example, to hold people accountable. So I think, if, if accountability is is, the shift it and in the binding nears to stepping away from questioning him about his the left flank, which isn't going to disappear and which has recently seen itself as victorious in some of the couple these primary challenges they they made and if in, if the major cultural institutions like the new times and elsewhere continue to radicalized. I don't know, I think it I hate to be the pessimists year, but I'm not sure that all of the that the problems will shift, but whether or not we bind will be held to account
before them by by his own side, I don't know, I think I am very concerned about our cultural institutions right now and how Craven Lee they have cave to the mob. I really didn't expect to see that so quickly, and so, terribly. So I don't know how that gets rebuilt in four years in order to provide a kind of bulwark against some of these more radical tendencies. I do not believe that this can be stopped. Blood is in the water everyone, as did the sharks, have tasted the blood. They know what they are bout there there. They are attempting a wholesale alteration of the american experiment, and they have had more success in the last politically in the last three four weeks, culturally and politically in some ways
and what do they do not have had this long tail of institutional take over for decades and its now coming to fruition. They They can see it happening and the notion that they're just gonna be satisfied with this glad handling politician from Delaware. You know: doddering old guy becoming president. Then they just basically calm down and go just are satisfied with whatever gains and spoils they ve gotten at the moment, and then they stop complaining the police so much, and they stop doing all of that strikes me as just it's not a delusion cuz. I don't know that anybody actually thinks you're going to have it really, but at as some kind of some kind of a dream I mean, after all, how did the winds of the black lives
movement started started under Obama didn't start under trumpet. But when was it sapped of its momentum when summer of twenty? Sixteen, after the murder of six police officers in Dallas. Right so pull, but politically rights are there had to say your say, but politically the murder of six police officers douse meant what I mean to have a public approval of police which had differ slightly returned to its right. Stratospheric ties with generally is in now Other people's beliefs are find your police are or we are pleased or find other people's beliefs or the problem pull suggests that people are less, are skeptical of police outside their on towns, which is against urban nimby issue, but yeah required and went down to shake everybody out of the the Spirit that they were in. But events happened new cycle
and criminality is on the rise by members of the late hour. I will present the countervailing pressure on this movement that it doesn't have an answer to it did while this is why we did did we talk yesterday about the decanter certain people in Missouri that the Saint Louis folks, with their guns, who came out of a close get so I mean that there are kind of imperfect encapsulation of the weirdest this moment right, because Of course they got docks, but they were their lawyers and and correct me if I'm wrong some found out that actually give tobacco they give to act, blue they they're kind of liberal, politically or at least that their donation, suggest that they are, and yet they still felt like the he needed to come out onto their property and and wave some guns around quite irresponsible. I have to say they obviously need some gun training, but that that moment me strikes me as the problem that binds gonna face and that first four years right, because even the people who are on his side politically, if their fearful and if they feel that that that there,
not safe for them. What are they going to do? They're going to know who they're going to side with in the in the next election? I've gathered my thoughts on this. Here we go. I think if Biden were truly a beloved politician, then they some chance of slowing the runaway train and people resolving their cognitive dissonance in favour of helping him. Going with whatever he says. In short, that is that his potential presidency is seen as sound and good bye.
As no one is enthusiastic about Biden. The faction in in the radical factions ISM is a much more energetic cause with many more serious devotees than than that of furnishing buttons career, while I'm without that without Trump in the picture, if he wins, Trop is out out without trumped up to sort of draw fire, from some on the left. The question is: what's there next target like what is their next goal and who's gonna be in standing in their way and if, by is the moderate that a lot of democratic primary voters who voted for him hope that he is. He is the one who is gonna be sent. In their way, because up thinking at what, what, when Obama made his zoom appearance of a few weeks or months back and and said and praised to some extent police generally, he didn't get any flag for that duty
I made my because not the hardly right, because he's Obama and brand and he's still maintains this is some degree of that magnetic hold on. I don't know that that I think I think Biden would faced faced tougher criticism on his left. For saying that is those very same thing. I it's actually true, and I also think that what we have since mostly what we have here aside from the attack on the cops, is radicals dethroned being liberals and the cultural institutions and- and to attract Yoda twisting the cultural institutions even. More decisively to their advantage by saying these figureheads at you have standing. You know at the apple at the head. We should be the figure heads not them where they all. That Biden is the ultimate such figure. If you think about it, he is that it would be
the Democratic Party will preside. States. Imagine Hubert Humphrey winning in nineteen. Sixty eight does the student movement go away because Humphrey one no, it intensifies. I mean it's not that Nixon did it You know a in some ways: it burned out a little when Nixon took office, even though they were you know in Washington forever, but I had a question: isn't the analogy? Is the question isn't what happens to the student movement under the Humphrey administration? The administration? The question is what happens to George Mcgovern under the Humphrey industry? He is still tethered to the institution as we all these other people who will be invested in the success of the institution of the temporary that bind demonstration. While this is the ultimate question about the future, is Trump wins and if he wins, he probably wins it out. By
this as I once again by the tiniest margins with republicans continuing in a worse political position, all the other body. Is the thing you are in like it again worse than the Senate, maybe a little worse than the house and all that and then there's another two years in a row two years on election for years, and the idea that the coup that, though, that the yeah that that their will yeah wholesale ideological shift away from the Republicans and and then and the right after four more years that that that's that's a delusion like that, you know from him, maybe survivor the skin of his teeth, but the Republican Party is going into a period of severe decline. If that happens, if it happens, and twenty twenty the snapped back, could peace startlingly fast, because there might be this civil war on
liberal left in which the idea is that you know, Biden is, a conservative sell out and we need to keep the pressure on and they'll be ten more chances and twenty more chops at more police departments being defended in cities and all of this, and Biden will be standing there in the midst of this chaos, with no idea what to do and the Republicans, will then be able to say you see, you cannot let them run the country, maybe couldn't let Trump run the country either, but these people cannot run the country that is that as a euro that is a bubble in some ways a cut of better severe for the right. Then maybe you know what is driving twenty twenty without by winning. I don't you know right of a failed right if, after a failed, democratic presidency,
the better messenger for the law and order message than eight then ineffective republican right Peter or whatever it is. I've been that's not to say that people who can't buy Biden and don't want to reward you know the this status, insurgent movement with any resemblance? you know anything resembling a victory should go to the polling place and you don't make make this choice. Son on on that on the idea that you have will be a lot better for us, some twenty twenty two and twenty twenty four. You know that's that Bank shy. You are you you get out. That's it that's a complicated pool maneuver at me. You don't want a necessarily try to play that angle. I'm just saying that that the contradictions in in this coalition, on the left are so huge right now and the euro
and I'm gonna call them back. But you know it's the best lack all conviction and the worst are full of passionate intensity. You know, first of all, this even the best. This is already like two generations away from the best the people who run these institutions who have lacked all conviction, they're, just bureaucrats and idiots and third rate you now so I would sum up banished to rise to the topic of university the situations and newspapers as news pay These are collapsing, and all of that, so let that they can all go to hell and they are gotta go to Hell, but they certainly lack all conviction, and it is so it is the worst who are full of passionate intensity and have an idea of what it is that they want to do with these places and with the with the country that is horrible to us, and you know they. It's unlikely that the those who you know
call. Conviction can withstand very hot much as we ve already seen from the worst, when they have all the passionate intensity and who is Biden, but somebody who seems to black a lot of conviction. I mean I mean that is, like you know, cynical hack. I mean that he just says like just wake me, president I'll be nice then I'll, go away. You now that maybe some Goals will be named after me, a princess. Aslan. Our and Michelle Obama praised praised Princeton for removing Wilson's named from its public policy. There's a there's an unkind kite, because because of course I would say that in a bomb was the ultimate will saw him, president in Doc, Reynolds her now now here is now here's Michelle.
His the removal of the name of a term president from from it out the institution that he largely it out, help shoot it send make it descendant the twentieth twentieth century anyway, we will, reconvene tomorrow for a Christina, no I'm John put words, keep the camel burning
Transcript generated on 2020-08-03.