Welcome to the Commentary magazine Daily Podcast for Thursday October eighth, twenty twenty, I'm John Pub words, the editor Commentary magazine it's me. As always, a very sleepy looking nor Rossman associate There are high Noah What sleepy looking a green while the executive editor hedge and not slavery at all. Christine senior writer Christine rose, and I dont know why we are all, of course, up late last night watching and in reacting to the vice presidential debate, which is now

over four, I a tat ten. nor eleven hours since we, since we watched There is already fading into the mists of Marie Christine. You had a great line last night about. Both the dynamic were. You know serve like what what we were looking at as the debate began. Well, if you read it in trying to figure out why what it was about, the lack of charisma that was weirdly appealing about both candidates- and I- and I felt like it was it suddenly struck me that it was like when two vice principles are addressing an assembly after a school riot.

all right, it was the first debate with triumphant trends, as it was both weirdly calming and completely lacking in charisma, but it was also in a strange way exactly what we needed to be reminded of what kind of work a view were. You found you precisely found this to be the case. Yeah. I it's what I realized watching this last night, because I was I was. I was quite engaged watching. It was that of chaos and craziness and unintelligible duty has gotten quite boring its if it gets boring. It's not it's not per day you'd think it would be in some sense, you re living because there has been nothing again, because everyone likes conflict. In fact it gets boring, and- and this this by contrast, was, was belief and interests like it

like a later season of the real housewives, like once you ve, seen the trump enough I've been watching the Trump show for five years. You know you ear you use or got it got down, and then maybe there's the Biden show, but of course, Biden is absolutely refusing to play the part of the new entry into the real housewives cat asked you know, he's like drinking and therefore throwing furniture or you know like getting into a fight with the with his with his husband or whatever. So so you had enough like you, you you got, you got your fill of the crazy is what you're saying I think that so, yes, I'm ok, I'm not watch real has wisely.

Yes, I'm just gone with the cultural, Alcoa. I've gotta go with one other cultural, now Jane and ass. No it or respond to it, which is there, was a kind of brilliant energy moment the early on in the debate when, have a common Harris was going at the administration for its corona virus response, which she called the worst presidential administration behaviour or something in history. The pre did out strong thing to say, and then hence got offended and said. The american people have been. sacrificing and putting themselves on the wine and do you Know- and I It won't have used them here.

eventually end insult the american people in their response to the krona virus. That's a brilliant tactic, because when you in debating two score point, if you can shift you know, and they each people this, you know it in debate. If you can shift the the subject just slightly so you you appear to be addressing it, but you move off the. We are weak point to refocus set on something that you consider a stronger point that is for the sort of thing that, if you're looking at the bait, simply as a performance matter, is a kind of clever move. But to me it struck me that it was. It was the the also real world equivalent ever top in National lampoons Animal house when their being discipline, that the big disciplinary hearing saying that packing. We know of fraternity, fraternities have a great the long history of existence and that they are part

the fabric of America, and he won't stand here and let you attack these AIDS States of America and then marches out of the disciplinary hearing rights out. So basically, pence was too Matheson. Enamel House now web you like that pop culture of it, we ve now gone from real housewives to national anthem hours. Now I mean a modern standards, animal houses, high culture? So I think I was very, very deaf, I why I really enjoyed last night's debate in part for the reasons that aid that was one of a window into the before time, where you could demonstrate that it was what we used to call politics where you can be. evasive and mendacious and put words in your opponents mouth, but do so while preserving the

Pino, civility and decorum and decency, and that's that implicitly, is what we used to call out sex. It's like it. It's a dance and if Europe, Europe in this business retracted to it by that choreography, it's an art, it's not easy to do. and there were a lot of people. I'm writing about this today, in fact, are a lot of people who very frustrated by the level of the vision that we saw that stage last night does it is rare that a direct answer to a question. But that's an answer is an answer in and of itself it shows the can panes hand and tells you where they think their strength are and where their weaknesses are, and it's pretty clear that pence had average on issues on the where he would. They will talk about climate and whatever to the green new deal. They talk about pre existing conditions and he would have it to abortion in any country. Where we talk about the peace, transition any brought up impeachment. All these their weaknesses for Democrats, while Harris was well evasive, covert, I'm a court packing, but what she pivoted to ever.

Single time. She had an opportunity was Joe Biden. Joe Biden is the advantage There's no defending Obama. There was no defending herself, she wouldn't you, improvise when my pants maiden laudable mistake like when you said, for example, that the public deserves to know that the health and this of the present when this White House has been nothing but closed when it comes to an information, easy he's gonna make a moment out of it. But she wouldn't you relentlessly on message, unflappable so, and the messages Joe by an alleged over she did do that very practiced in staged. I'm not gonna stand here and let you lecture me on criminal justice, I'm the expert on that here bed, which was the signal to make a big issue out of the man splaining. it was the your stay out here. As a man telling me, I would say the first,

The signal was sent out within the first ten to fifteen minutes or the debate when she made a big display of being interrupted right right, even really being interrupted. I mean I was very practised and everybody picked up on the subject was well right and so easily either were like oh, come on what? What are you? What are you kidding me? This is a vice presidential debate. Nobody's do you know I've been or you're like yeah. This is like every man, whatever and those every woman welcome. Can I just put aside, can I mansplain met you a little bit mansplain o ways of your man, swaying to me. So that's what this is one of the things we are junkie about less than the text, because it cannot.

If a case that we ve got to appoint an hour in our politics of the twenty first century, where, when a man and a woman debate, anything the man says his man splaining, I like I will. I refuse to adopt that, and I know that the media's cove trying to go with that little bit with Harrison's ridiculous. They both did find me, nay, they both kind of did what they were there to do. I will say: Is that what struck me and clarify something. I said the other day that I did a very staunch democrat friend of mine, whose opinion I respect chestnut before was in saying that the pivotal Joe Biden in the Joe Biden sodden empathetic person- I didn't mean him as an individual, I'm sure as an individual in his personal life, he is he's practice extraordinary empathy, people who I it was a penny, I trust, like the lovely mega, Mccain and others have said like he is really decent guy and here's the ways he was decent me. That's all what I was saying, I think the weakness of the job Canada Harris empathy campaign as a campaign strategy was revealed last night when she tried to

we're her way out of answering policy questions, because when she talked about covered she didn't give firm evidence of anything dramatic that the binding ministration would have done differently if they had face covert. I mean there are a few things like these vague contact tracing stuff wish list. people have had a very serious arguments about the challenges that we face: new device, history not and must not be sounds like The cap mandate I M wearing, have mass they can shut things down those that those states responsibilities and local governments responsibility. So I that's where I found the weakness of the empathy are play there making and for which Joe Biden is. The figure had far less appeal. after last night's debate, even though I think and agree with my friends who, who have met Joe Biden and say he's a very empathetic human being. I dont out that. But I think it's a campaign strategy. It's it's. We

in so far as I don't see a single policy message that was dramatically new, except that you know Trump bad fighting is not dropping Abe. I think they're Harris who, I think that's fine, nothing pence did fine. I don't really think that anybody won or lost particularly, I mean who knows. I know the first Paul said that the Harris One, but of course I could mean that that was a CNN audience pole and who knows like, if that's their audience, then of course Harris is gonna win. I was struck that in in the times gone by. Had this been days gone by, her answer on foreign policy was the sort of thing that could have been catastrophic at a time when people really cared about foreign policy

She completely mishandled was confused by an flummoxed by her effort to make the case that the trumpet move the Trump had handled the Mideast badly land. It's not that that's, not an argument that can be made its that she didn't know, She was talking about an inn in pale and ask fashion I M in a way that will reach the level of our really I mean this is you're gonna, be vice. We're gonna be a heartbeat away from the press see you don't know what's in IRAN, would you know your nose in IRAN Nuclear deal anyway? I have will yet will she launched into it with the diametrically false statement that that thee drug administration was alienating friends.

and embracing enemies. I mean you know. We know the Trump praises Putin, but if you're gonna talk about the Middle EAST policy, are you and you know pens didn't miss the opportunity fine by saying this, the diminishing embraced our closest friend and in the Middle EAST. Israel like like no other present ticket to come before Well, then, what I did I'm an old man- God knows our vice president made a very risky move by suggesting saying outright that killing your more new ruler who was killed by ices, on her family believes that you would be alive today if Donald Trump was president at the time. In that Barack Obama at risk, where you can make a lot of hay out about you. Can posture indignantly sentencing up there just step beyond the pale, but instead she pivoted too.

To really dubious stories about the president. S visit her being so relentlessly message about the present that you can't she couldn't improvise. In a moment she taught them. How the president had attacked our service members and call them losers? how the White House, responded any appreciable way to the the story. There. Russia was financing and paying militants and Afghanistan to target and kill american soldiers Both of those stories are not confirmed to my satisfaction, rousing, which was a when pence responded to that tv soldier slander by talking about his own family service? He was cut off by the moderator and the only thing I thought that was. No one, no one with a job anywhere in poetry, has ever caught off Joe Biden

talking about a family member surface right at will, Never have that is a licence to go on and on and on an amazingly veggie. Their pets was cut off. Bearing up again, I thought that you know it is this. What if this were a matter, we could talk about. Why don't don't really is a matter? Why policies really not a matter here, but it were a matter of you know compartment on issues as you know, as a potential leader address to the calamitous family, where she said, I know your story and it's awful and it shouldn't happen and Joe feels the same way was horrible, like its of course. It's all right. That's what you say to somebody who's kid was killed in a car crash

as somebody who was kidnapped, taken hostage by a radical islamist group that was attempting to establish a caliphate in that you know in the in the heart the most destabilizing place in the world was repeatedly raped, and then slaughtered like it's not as I say, it's a terrible thing when you're, you know when your kid is hit by a train, I it is now a terrible thing when you are taken prisoner captive and as a as some kind of rapid Then the figure of the United States are tortured. Raked am killed that require There is a stronger response from somebody who is going to be the vice president, United States. And you know the Democrats know how to do that, because we ve been having this sort of mostly online lecture privy to additional money online lecture from progressives about the distinction between tragedy in atrocity, particularly women,

comes to law enforcement. Whenever there is an act of law enforcement that is perceived to be excessive and violent, it's not a tragedy. It's an it's an attack. It's an atrocity and an earthquake is a tragedy. You know the differently, and so I appeal to that, and they call harrassed is truly First in that language, though, she knew what exactly what she was doing, I'm not doing Here's my, but it doesn't matter and her her her deep discomfort talking about. You know the most important thing that a president actually has to deal with, which is foreign policy discuss for them unfamiliarity and then her awkwardness in dealing with this with a meal or family.

they don't matter, and they don't matter because you guys may like the debate and you may have veto, had a kind of nostalgia. Kick you know listening to all these radio sense that this is when music was good. Now, it's not just like all this wrapped in all this Why is that female? We old guys on our alarm you now scream about if we're. If we hear now here, Popper some horrible, you know since pop of twenty twenty big, as a issues don't matter and that that is what the Biden campaign knows, I think to its marrow. And why Harris was fine. Even if she panted on that and told this problem asterisk lie about Abraham Lincoln, not appointing a Supreme court, just twenty nine days before before the election when in aid, sixty four, when he didn't do anything

because the said it was out of session and what that means centralisation, eighteen sixty four they were all it would have taken a week for them to get the letter informing them that there had been a Supreme Court nominee and that in a minute that e they got back there They literally confirm that person. A day, so honest a wasn't, save and no nomination. In case George Mc Clellan ended up getting elected president. So we can fact check her talker, none of that matter. Because what they know is that this alone, is about Donald Trump. That's what it's about it! It's about doll, try! and his handling of issues. I suppose you could say it's about his handling of corona, but it's about him. They and all they want to do with the exception of frack. King is not talk. Issues. He what you wanted to make it very clear to every single,

person in the Keystone State of Pennsylvania that Joe Biden, who said that he was going to end racking and she who said, without question that you're gonna end racking, they're, not gonna, bracket, I felt like I was like the telethon portion of the debate, where there should have been like an eight hundred number that popped out like if Europeans of emu voter. Please call this number will reassure you we're not going to ban Frank. You, of course, going to ban proclaiming its the public land distinction that they're trying to tiptoe around every day by non tapes, anyone's and all fossil fuels, and this is not this is yet it was still comes. It will. But the thing

you don't even want it's not on pals, when it's just about when it's about the person of Donald Trump Sheen, Joe Biden also shamelessly lie I. It has to be said that there is a great many things to complain about Trump, but the message that Biden and and Harris Drill home again and again that the two short of core ones are the Charlottesville good people on both sides, which is not true, I mean he. What tromp was talking about the Confederate monument Debate and explicitly said not the white nationalist. Those are bad people and Viet that that the press, said the virus was a hoax which,

also not true. He didn't say that he said that the democratic claims about his response to the virus are out right well. So this is the other thing about Trump being the subjects and the object and the source of all matters relating to the selection which is that he has set the bar for speaking truthfully about your rivals and about your policies and everything at at you know at level where you can't even limbo under it like its lying flat on the ground, and so he has cream here is the drinking word reformation structure, for anybody to say anything about him There's long! Is it as long as it is one that has some

We even tenuous connection to a word that he may have said or a phrase that he may have uttered yet because those things have been fact checked again and again and again, but they do not remove from adds they're, not not repeated in the neck run parents right well. So so, let's talk about this question. So, on the one hand, it was a more substantive debate them the Trump binding debate, because you know my when my son- It was three and fighting over a toy with a classmate that was more substantive them. Then the Trump Biden debate I would say. but did anybody here? The substance like all everyone on the right is saying and properly, and I left Commodore posted this. She would answer the question about court packing, she refused to answer.

She refused to answer the questions you refused to answer the question better than that anybody was that that was actually kind of like my favorite moment, because not only did she not Donnelly that you refused to answer, cheap schiesser of introduced this Mamma, you wanna, talk Turkey back core pack. You want to really get down to core packing. Let's lay on the table and then completely blanket around. You know what you have in a way which would like let's talk about poor packing and then she accused illustration of filling existing vacancies in all of the people there and working with with people idiot ideological people who lived Oh organizations, don't like imaging, basically said that yeah said that organization, say or not. You know ardour to political or not or not, good. You know it's like those. In the end, it is again at that people who hate

he's, not answers your getting an answer, that's the answer. The answer is court. Packing is excellent. Any really unpopular got a good four pence for saying you got your. I actually like that. He added VIII and once he painted or into a corner he put his hand up was like you're not get another. This quarter, lady, any! Sadly you have your answer. America, they're gonna new, should assume that they will at least on the table for them and the threatened cause. That's exactly what he should have that right, and that is, but now as you're absolutely right. So when you evade a straight answer when you're talking about policy the answer is contained within the evasion. Now there are two ways of looking at that, one of which is to say They won't answer it cuz. They are going to pack the court, it is going to happen and they don't want to say it's not going to happen so that when it happens there on record saying it's not going to happen, and the other is they have a delay,

for strategy of not making any of their policy positions or pronouncements to provide tromp or pants, or the Republicans, with a hawk that they can hook. Arguments to, and that is the proof that court packing they now having Paul test their wherever the court. Packing is unpopular. So they're, not Let us say no, because they want to keep their powder dry or because I don't want to offend level some at that and they're, not so that as a useful piece of information. But I want There is always of information for a hundred and fifty million voters. It's a useful. Information for high information voters and then the question Is there any high information voter who hasn't it does now? Is my made up already? I don't know, I think I mean even than non high information voter who sees that clip well see her evasiveness and That again, you're you're right in these debates, don't matter had said

et Cetera, especially the vice presidential debate, but that it thinks it is, speaks to and undermines the message that they have been making as part of their campaign, which is done we're about the details, just trust us and you know, and like that's clearly working. If you trust the Poles and maybe that'll work, you know maybe he'll win a nay the first two years there ministration that'll work, but I I mean it the conservative. That concerns me because I don't try They are gonna, steer us in the right direction on on policy matters, so I dont know how many low in for me, in voters have any concern enough about that, just that the vagueness of it or if that in fact is appealing to them, because Trump is such a well guard me that again ladder pensive, my pencil justice guilt, of the sea that you took sides ISM now, if you're gonna running, if we're gonna do dueling clips, my pants danced around the science of

I'm a change and have it into the green new deal. I think you mentioned that with the words green deal about thirty seven times tells you how well that poles praying. think conditions where he pivoted too, to health care which turned into abortion, which turned into any coney, bear it somehow and most glaringly directly, pressed as to what his responsibilities were as constitutional duties were, as vice president, in the event that the cat ticket lose isn't Are you facilitate a peaceful transition? He went off onto impeachment yeah. That was a bad, yeah. That was a bad idea of monopoly only because of its vulnerability for Democrats that risk that no democratic at the word impeachment since February. While I was, I thought that was informed because he said when ye you tried to impeach the peace that she never responded said in fact, Mr President, the present was impeached. He wasn't Peter. I voted to convict them right

country and if we had convicted him somebody else you would have been president during Corona, and I bet you would have done a better job. I mean you know it's like well, that would have been horrible You know what a vote of confidence and in them european thinking, I think about it, for a man and think about what a great play that would have been like what is he they know I wouldn't have done anyway. but now raising our administration. I agree: what have you know the union has to copy? You would have done a better job. You know a dog would have done better. The dog, that's barking in the back would have done better job. How did somebody get a dog into that aim? At will? you have to talk about the fly. I'm sorry, I don't let your dog first, I thought I was speaking at first. I can such always first, I thought it was loud sneezing though I thought it was hiccoughing, and then I thought it was a yelping bog yeah, but like I can't you get up and leave if you have a like who brought it

carrying pen spring a dog is there for animals at New York, Irae brother. I now ok, the fly, Sir, Oh I'm the only unsifted moment in this entire debate right. Why, with notable it the fly sat on his head for two minutes speck. And of course that is the only thing that anyone is gonna. Remember in history from this debate is the fly and there will be a set of Albion Ass, an l routine, about the fly on Saturday night. The fly you know within three minutes. There was A twitter account for the fly in my pants head.

Not a hundred thousand follower, yes well, and I was reminded I was reminded of of the blissful old days of twitter when Twitter was fun and not simply a garbage sewer. keep when there was the story about a snake than had escaped from from the Bronx Zoo. Remember this the Bronx Zoo snake and then the Bronx Zoo snake, a twitter feed starts in the Bronx Zoo snake. All day is like visiting too I'm going to this day. Liberty and it was delightful. It was there. Those all twitter feeds. Thou one the glee, I'm condi- mask the elevator. Anybody remember that

not only were heard. Overheard the candy mast, elevator, there's almost none of that laughed. None of that lightness of spirit left because, of course we are facing the unprecedented darkness of the impending fascist, take over of the country, and you know, if you make a joke, you are, you were serving the interests of you know, of the forces of of darkness, but damn that and shark NATO the evening of shark NATO back an out and out twenty eleven or twenty twelve when nobody to serve stopped and watch shocked. Make no pun, I'm the great I'm at an mba media group, tweeted shark, NATO. Suddenly NATO's yelling can bring us together. So am, I believe, its friends ion. I once I am my apologies to events gets anyway, so that with them

again. I wanted to point out that Christine Rosen claims to be a critic of mass, internet culture in every way, shape or form she doesn't like it. She thinks it's bad change in our brains. It's awful and she knows more pop culture internet junk Then even I'd. Well, maybe not as much as I do she's. No, it's all right. I just want to say for a lot. I know for a lot. I you should know how to run a machine on his job. I'm gonna stay anyway that

Pence fly was up with a moment that park in the back to us to a sunny or simpler time in America when, when everybody could kind of share a laugh over at over a transparent absurdity. That kind of could have happened to anybody, although of course the fact his hair is like jet wide and that he must have had hairspray in the hair, which is why the the fly wasn't moving Yeah, so that other any anyone got anything save the file will only that, once the fly got comfortable, and really didn't move I assume that I think everyone assume that this was it. It was that we were the fire, was gonna, be there for the rest of the debate here and but that was almost a moment of like panic, because, like enjoying this thing, that was normal,

and now it's where we're going to be shot off into surreal and once again, thank God, the flies gone, but that's, right. I mean it's, it's when's auguries portents dire like this is it does. I am from the almighty that nothing can go right for this campaign right when I was when I wrote my first book, however, ride a which was about the decline and followed the first Bush administration and I was, I was writing three day from we now like February. Ninety two: until the elections and you know, grandeur leaks, are keeping a diary. Everything like that and the thing was like Bush, never had a had a good day like literally you now, except when maybe Perot dropped out at some point, like Bush never had a good day. He never

one day. He never really had a good news story and then weird things would happen. He'd have an event and there would be a lot of rain. You know A car in his motorcade would get a flat tire stuff like that. Jimmy Carter went through this in nineteen semi moment. You know, Jimmy Carter was attacked when he was in a rowboat feral rabbit was in the lab in the water, and I just like you know just as luck. Luck is a very interesting thing. We focus a lot on good luck. and then there are just there's just bad luck and bad luck. You can often you know, a survey for false negative or whenever you might want to call it like. You only notice the bad luck when you're looking for it, because, of course,. if there is no such thing like it's like the coin, toss thing about how what is.

Her chance. If you, if you flip the coin a hundred times and it comes up heads what is the next coin, for what are the odds of the coin? Flippers gonna come heads Lex. it's the same odds, it's fifty percent, so luck is kind of a false thing, but metaphorically that fly had to land on pensions. It wasn't gonna land on Harris's head because Harris's in the moment in the winning vision, and so, if some what's gonna happen and pants was doing so well, relatively speaking, if there,

I'm going to be a moment in a metaphorical moment to suggest the dynamic of sip. Sheer luck that was going on, but you know what is going on in America. It had to be. The fly was going to land on pence's head, it's a it's a weird phenomenon in it in politics that the the the the winner sings just kind of you know gopher doors open when they're supposed to open. You know you know the way things work out. The mechanics go smoothly. When when a well oiled machine is functioning as it as as it should and it somehow the universe scenes are appears to conform to it, So now we move to how this, where we ve had this invitation for half an hour now and no There's gonna, pay the slice attention to this debate by the time

you listen because, of course, all we're going to be talking about is whether or not there's going to be another debate after this, because the commission president announced that it was going to have a virtual debate- or you know, debate with the candidates in different places and Donald Trump said he's not gonna, do it. I blame you of my post on this debate has no traffic fine, it's my fault, that the wind out of my sales, although hey I've, appear suffered within Europe and no one's going to read it either likely. Let's face it, I'm just saying Trump: wouldn't even let this ride for five minutes so that we could talk about about that. He survey. They they announced at some thirty in the morning. The commission presidential data. That debate is not going to be in person and trumpet me, Italy says I'm not going, I'm not gonna. Do it, I'm not gonna waste. My time, thoughts. Guess I like how I mean I guess

possible and it would be it think this advantage for the trunk campaign to not to participate in this zone debate because it really neutralizes everything that Donald Trump seems to want to do to play off an audience to engage with the girl. T interrupt interred. Throw them off the German that's his whole strategy, so be really neutralised by by that format. But what else can you do? How can you can't play prevent defence when you're down ten points. If you're Are you going to manufacture a moment without the debates what than it did grants are Republicans rather thinking now, as they feel the ground eroding out from under them. Over the past week I mean you're, basically saying you're gonna be hostage to events for the next twenty seven days. War is this like another relief package gamble. or MAC and Billina will he will by the time this spot cast is up and running, we will hear

before he say. Will he be negotiations about bright, lay a second debate after I met I'm sure, that's right, I'm sure they want the will. He won't. He, regulation, because you know it the focus is the spotlight arm? He loves to be in the spotlight, but this is the problem. You need to get out the spotlight one, as he's been releasing all these little. You know like, like a morphine drip, these these videos of himself. You know chatting everybody up which he completely. Trolls and that I think You can justify making, maybe one or two when he got back from the hospital learn in the hospital or what not but now starting to have a stranger factly. I just I don't find. I don't find them persuasive I mean I'm, not I'm not the object of those videos of him, not the audience for them, but I I agree with no, I mean, if heat the other problem is that if you don't debate again in whatever format the only debate, we have to judge him on his that first one, and that was a disaster for him. Oh a brief digression cause you mention these videos and we

really have to at least note yesterday Lange desperation in the president's Affect John, had a perfect analogy, let him say it. but I watched every last night- and it's probably forgotten by Now- cuz they're like to others that came out the interim, but the one there was one that came out last night. That was just so desperate. It's kind of sad and that's the last thing that this president used to be perceived as a sad clawing, desperate figure. Well, I'm confirms my feeling is that Trump seems you know they were what people call disrupt right, he's a disruptor, but his behaviour of the last four or five days has been erratic and

it's one thing to be a disruptor who is like phenomenally aggressive and seems very determine than alpha, and all of that which you know startled everybody in twenty fifteen twenty, sixteen steamrollered every other Republican has been. If the me by which he forced the Republican party or the elected officials, the Republican Party in the United States, to become his cats pause and lose any any any position of of independence from him. Ah, all of that It's another to look like. You are up think one thing at five oak, five, o seven and another thing at five. Twenty three. That is. not reassuring. That is not like, oh my god he's so tough. Oh my god he's such an alpha.

I got you know it takes a tough man to make a tender chicken like he knows, he's doing and he's doing it for us, It is a nerve to watch somebody switch positions, every fifteen or twenty minutes or express Strange euphoria in the wake of aid read a hospitalization freight for aid disease that has killed two hundred and ten thousand people in the United States and to say I call it a cure, they call it a treatment, I call it a cure, but it's not a cure. A treatment is not a cure and it's an interesting problem, because treatments are great,

and it is if in fact he is proving that regeneration is a fantastic treatment. or corona, and that we are therefore going to buy lots of regeneration and distributed so that people who get it can have a quicker and better recovery. That's great, but it's not occur, and, and that means that a lot of people either aren't gonna get it aren't. Gonna have their symptoms, mitigated by it, and people who get corner still going die and he can't walking around calling a treatment, a cure. he doesn't know whether its treatment or cure, because if his- time table is honest about when he got the virus huh, is entering in the next couple of days to a potentially dangerous period in which, after seven days, there can be some kind of aid. we're a reversion moment where he gets really really sick again Dennis

I'd from tempting the gods and all of that by by walking around saying he's better when everybody, the I've known who has gotten this virus you now has a week to ten days of being really sick with it. I'm sure people get it in different ways, but I mean- and maybe he got less severe strain of at or whatever and that's great, and I he should only live and be well. But this is not the talk of somebody who is you go? Who is? needs to go and say to people vote for me now, because I'm a resolute leader who was gonna leave us through a difficult time, and so I don't, see how that's knowledge not helpful to him what he is doing, It is adding and I'm not talking about getting the virus and whether that shows that he is you know he's. But we know that the

deserves. It argued our you know. Ah ha Carmack I mean like calm down. You know, don't walk away from a negotiation and then negotiate five minutes later like don't, you look crazy and you look like you're having symptoms from from the medications you're. Taking and you're down ten points? So you gotta focus, and you know I'm back on a horse and ride that horse and this decision and to announce without any thought without any thought it wasn't gonna do. The virtual debate is again. is an why other whereby Republicans and public and politicians, if this goes on Another twelve hours are going to be desperately looking for an exit. The I think I'll say about that aims at what be, sorry sorry, Noah Witwer.

we're on edge higher we're on a zoom. I know I just made have made a face like something big happen and I'm sorry. This is like when events eloquence does on the radio like I'm reacting to Noah, and you guys can see now. I'm sorry is reacting to you, I'm sorry, I'm interrupting aiming at an easy should continue of where, where did they go? I been saying the need to go somewhere for months, but no one listens to me, or maybe there's no, where to go maybe they're all just out prisoners on this doomed ship. Yet without that's kind of in keeping with what has been said, which is that it's very easy to look at what Trump has been doing in saying over the past few days and connected to the steroids and I'm sort of mania, but the truth is, I don't see any discernible difference in what he always does honestly If this were someone else, I'm suddenly going

into this erratic mode. It would cause for actual concern about the medication effects and what not to me the keys. is that this is just him. This is the way he's been our way through. I don't know I mean I really don't think that their response to the stimulus, negotiation? Stuff was him, I mean How did you know? I mean there could be many causes. Somebody could feel angry, desperate, worried about the However, you want to slice, said order or it's an element of his of his illness. But if you go walk away from the from them creation, are part of it was walking away from you? the part of the strategy in his old in his eye in the old days three weeks ago, it would have been to walk away from

ocean. Let people stew in their own juices, for a little bit before you know, if you're walking away from the table to have to have to reset the table, not to do it, twenty minutes later, like people are saying what what did you just do? What did you just do like you're leaving us out here, you're you're, giving Biden the hammer you now the shovel to dig your grave with, and they ignore, oh I'll, take a different bill taken other relatives on like that. That's not like him, like he he's gonna when he said to Nancy Pelosi, all shut and the government. He You know it's like he didn't she like are you really handing me this giant present like? Oh, my god? Thank you and then he didn't like red, signals insane. I didn't mean that he actually felt like he had to follow through. On it, like I so utter Ivan

for months. That Republicans need to do their best to localize these races I know John disagrees with me as then. Maybe that's not possible I think that reminds voters open national landscape doesn't come the direction that Republicans wanted to, and I don't know how you do that. But my best guess is you find the most popular politician with an hour after their name in their state. Grab onto them like their flotsam in a shipwreck engine. Talk only about them pretend there, the president do in every possibly can to get everyone's minds off the figure in the White House, because he's dragging the ticket he's dragging the down balladur. I don't I don't know, do you know this, but at this stage in the race, maybe you could have done that in July and August in probably can't do it now but whatever choice they have. There is one interesting ray of light in the pot. It's done a ray of light, but it's a it's it's it's it's the wrong way to put it, but in a crystal ball, which is the

report on the state of the race and all the races from the EU. Firstly, day of Virginia's political unit run by Larry, Sabado Kyle Kondik Conduct has a report this morning in which he says all the polling is terrible and all that, but he said is that there are signs, particularly in the Monmouth Polling, that they're they're having difficulty getting responses from republican seniors, meaning that some of these Paul's, where you see this catastrophic bottom falling out for Trump, may be that, and you see these numbers like trumpets that binds up by twenty seven or something where you there with seniors in some Data, rather you know with which is a cohort, the Trump one in twenty. Sixteen sorry like well

he's done, if they are not, if Republicans or depressed this week and of this, did not answer the phone or talk to pollsters it's not a shy. Tory effect, it's a different effect, its assert depressed republican, effective, it's not in the end that they're not gonna go out vote, which is why everybody in Florida who knows anything, Democrats and Republicans, are saying these numbers where it's like it say, binds up ten or eleven in Florida, ridiculous he's not up ten and eleven. Now the dynamic and that state and Republican seem to stop talking to pollsters in October, and the like, you know, remember, Andrew kill him. Was up in nineteen of the last twenty poles outside the margin of error or something like that: beating Rhonda, Santas and run the Santas won the election and twenty eighteen. So there

Is this thing where it's possible that there has been a kind of withdrawal of affect among Trump voters where they are they law, their enthusiasm or their feeling worried or their concern, or something like that in there just not answering the phone or you know that

see the Red out on the phone and they're not answer the phone, but that that they'll be there for him, and there is the question that this is is is how many of those people there really are. I mean there is a there is the worst Paul number four tromp ever, which could be play. A factor in this is appalled that came out last night from Sienna of the twenty second congressional district in New York, which is of a pole of of about congressional race, in which the Democrat is now six or seven points up on the republic, and others is a weird district was represented for many many many years by a conservative, democratically Maurice empty for twenty or thirty years, or something like that, like a pro life conserve Democrat, but it's mostly republican want Trump one. The district by sixteen and twenty six,

steam and according to this pole, last night Biden is up by one. That is a seventeen point shift in trumps direction and that, of course, in a state that it doesn't matter elect orally because obviously bind those gonna win New York. But if, in a republican district that he won by sixteen Biden is now you know tighter. that's the ball game. That is a nationalize race, that's where you know it That means a republican districts has turned again So that is not a suburban. That's, not MR suburban District, that is of upstate New York, rust, alt, small cities, not baffling area, and they, if, if it's right, they ve had enough So let us off the sneer observing the softness across the upper Midwest, its

I mean mostly in the other at the sun. Deltas was weak too, but the bomb falling on the pulse across the MID West, not just Pennsylvania, Michigan. Concentrate places like Ohio in Iowa. where in the latest asked the uniform Swain, then you have these weird other numbers that suggest the uniform swaying like is Johnny, aren't there public and senator in Iowa in trouble her rival Teresa Greenfield there's. One pole in which there is a ring felt is now firmly in the lead. Teresa Greenfield has raised a jawed dropping the money she raised twenty eight million dollars in the second quarter or something like that in Iowa. Like that, that's not you know that's beyond belief, and then, of course you have this question of. What's going on with Lindsey, Graham and sound

minor and Republicans now have what what what they have is. They can seize on the sex and all that is afflicting the Republican at the democratic candidate North Carolina, who appeared to be running away with that race against time. Tell us how Cunningham, who was now. You know basically involved in multiple sex scandals involving adultery ism stuff that he may have done while he was a colonel in the National Guard, or something like that. I can quite I'm really reading stories, but but when you, when you're like hoping to have a seat saved by sex scandal- and that's like That'S- that's the best

those that you ve got. That's that's pretty. That's pretty grim. Can I finish with one thing because- and I ask you now way- you know where we talk about how that had. Nothing goes right and nothing is gone right in the twenty first century. So then, well prize for literature, came out this morning American has won the Nobel Prize for literature and for the first time in my life, I can say without qualification that the American a laureate is some one of whom I have never heard the poet, then Louise Gluck, I've never heard of her. I probably rhetoric, as I do, Sir Red Poetry, magazines, but like a like people, don't recognize by lines. I'm not sure I am like this. is not right like it, I'm sorry, but I'm I'm, I'm I'm up high illiterate person who

read the lot and it's one thing if they if the award to some somebody from Sweden that I never heard of but if you come to America and the one person that you pick to win the limited to be the laureate, is it secure american poet than I never heard of its time to stop giving up exit. should stop giving out another wrestler tray way, but Have you heard of Louis Gluck I have here, Euro literary person I haven't I haven't, but I have to say you know when it comes to poetry in the twenty first century, so few Americans have heard of any kind. Prairie poets right yeah, I mean when I say this is the opposite of when they gave it it Bob Dylan yeah. I know

Bob Dylan, but I mean you know that there are a poet that way it marks strand like I could name twenty polar CERN of living american poets. You know marks read the dove. The Collins, I mean they are people that what I have heard of and I haven't her that's all, I'm saying is that am I heard of her. I have heard of him. I think it right and the kind of shit Beverly Hills. My notion was not I've already established that you know you now know Ions Earring and Louise Gluck. I also had a mellow rose place. Phase of my young life seemed so we won't go there, but she does. She strikes me as the perfect poet for thee the added New Yorker reader Dinner- I mean, like the mean, even the, how she was even in the announcement when they presently her poetry, has this us. dear beauty, which I kind of red I mean,

I've read about its fine but, like you said, gentlemen error. If this is the person you're gonna plucked from As I am security and elevated with a Nobel prize. It was a strange choice but she strikes me as one of those that this deliberately obscure poets, that the twenty first century has produced so many of them and who break out moment is winning a Nobel Prize, never going to be needed. This data with novelist as well. But it is an American not a mere, not America. Novelists in whatever country they pluck a novelist out of and make the glory of that writer is, is certainly the most famous writer in that country at that, comment or one of the two or three most famous now mean that there have been there but interesting choices over the last five or six years, no sweat Lon alley of it, who is who isn't even a novelist right rights, these kind of oral histories and things like that, but is certainly a fantastically em

where she, where she is. My point is that I am the sort of person who should know who the lorry as the laureate is not anybody that I know, and so that of course means once again that being a fillip broth time, he didn't get it There are all kinds of people who aren't getting it, who you know who, by right, who write English? Who should be when people I dont like like Thomas Pincian, would make more sense. I mean I I don't think I think Thomas Pension is a is a is a purveyor of of Argo Margo, but you know Cormac Mccarthy, I don't know I mean I find their men so problematic and to give it to a man many times we didn't they had to escape. Was this about price group that had the scandal and couldn't get a prize for awhile, where they had some sort of me to wish type scandal re yet then, and then last year? Of course, they gave it to a

slavery, defender of the last June recital monster. Of Europe able to Peter High who is a german writer or austrian writer who, who is a defender and France. It was a defence Slobodan Milosevic's. So yeah anyway wanted to bring that up to broaden our horizons and then basically give people a chance to make fun of me for being an illiterate, because I don't, I don't sit at the feet of the glories of Louise Glock, can, I will also say, might my my daughter, who was an eleventh grade is, is, is studying John done right now the idea and them man that is hard that that pole, I somehow didn't remember that

from my own you now old english literature studying days, but she she, I want, I'm lost in admiration that she and her classmates are are able to decipher what they are reading, because it is. It is like some of its like stereo instructions. I mean it is really not all these are baffling Lee obscure and no sentence. Construction are in a have want to put it- the meter doesn't what it is really difficult. So I've never heard of Louise Glock- and I dont understand John down in this basically is an indication that I'm you know I'm now philistine and have lost my capacity to understand high. You hire high culture and I blame Donald Trump because one

everybody blames thou from for everything. So I can blame Donald Trump game that if no man is an island rate, tromp is perhaps the exception to that rule ray here here. Right now is on an island stranded. That was a fantastic pull out Thank you for going to John done power to conclude this podcast after this strange peroration on my part, four Christine Noah will see anymore. I'm John Paul boards, the camera