A piece we published on Friday by our own Noah Rothman kicked up a social-media dust storm over the weekend—the view of Noah's critics being that it is illegitimate to question associations between Bernie Sanders, his campaign, and anti-Semites. We disagree. At length. Give a listen.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
some guy Well, to the Commentary magazine podcast for Monday December. Sixteenth twenty nineteen- I am John PATH towards the editor of commentary with me. As always,. Senior editor, a green while hi hi John Associate Outer nor Rossman high. Now I John and in Washington, senior writer Christine rose and high Christine Hygiene, so the pieces of news involving either peripherally or centrally anti Semitism. The first piece of news was, as we had dared to say,
from the last podcast. Are our terror of the possibility that Jeremy carbon might be my pull off of an upset and become the prime Minister of Britain. In fact, Jeremy Corbyn is now out as or has not formally at Resigns head of Labour Party, but is intending to resign as head of Labour Party after a blow out a defeat that saw the that's all tories with eight? I think it's an 80s exceed majority, though largest spread since one thousand nine hundred and thirty five, the worst performance by the Labor Party since one thousand nine hundred and thirty five and clearly some part of the victory of Johnson Abortion Johnson was not just because of his promise to get breaks it done, but the that the discomfiture and open dislike of of a lot of people in Britain
With german carbons, extremism, which then involves materially involves, is Anti Semitism, so that, as does the good news in the Anti Semitism Fronty bad news, really too horrible events, one far more harmful than the other. Both horrible events. Last week, the slaughter three people in a Jew, a supermarket in Jersey City, that apparently could have been very sleep, more horrific. Had these shooters made there way into the Eu Shiva next door were there were apparently fifty kids just sitting there like sitting ducks, but they they could. For some reason, they ended up right next door in the juice of market where they shot to alter orthodox Jews and one worker in the in the store after having shot a cop. A mile away. The other was a sitting
In LOS Angeles, caring primarily to iranian Jews, that was desecrated over the weekend in a really hard away in a tourist grove slashed up, which is that of very serious crime, religious crime. In the annals of that, that's something new, tourists needs to be buried to be mourned over too there's a period of mourning for a designated tourist growl. So it's up it's a very serious thing, So we have to massively anti semitic moments Erica than this one reversal: a refusal to take Anti Semitism incidents, are no Rossman on Friday, published a blog post, which you can read it's right there
our website. At commentary magazine injures S. Commentary magazine that calmer, we give you shoe free reads: asking the subscribe. Ninety! Ninety four if we're digital Subscription, twenty five would all access subscription, Kenobi of Monthly Magazine your Alex eleven times a year about, the Bernie Sanders campaign and how it tolerate place, footsie weapon is even one I'd say either infiltrated by or populated by, people who have a history of either making anti semitic remarks are being openly anti semitic despite Puss went negatively viral over the weekend on Twitter as Bernie, brows and Bernie staffers and Bernie Sick, fans and even up Senator from Connecticut, when after Noah Form, have making such an absolutely outrageous accusation. Noah. I want you to dilate on your blog posts.
People why you came to this collusion by Bernie Sanders in the wake of the carbon defeat right so yeah we'll get to the vitality in a little bit, because it's not exactly predicated on when I Chile wrote as it almost never is in these instances, but somewhat initially in the wake of german corbians defeat, it became obvious that I was not entirely policy based, but also about the personalities, defects of the leader and particularly as Anti Semitism, which was an isolated, are limited to him. It engulfed the entire labour party. Labour has been dealing with an anti semitic scandal from one member, the other over the course of the last two years, involving allowed people being censure it or even removed? So it's not as though this was something
was conjured up. You just had to observe it, and Bernie Sanders seems to be as tolerant of the occasionally anti semitic outbursts of his surrogates and some members of his staff that such to the point that it is again hard to ignore I noted obviously Linda are not tsars, Johan Omar, who has apologised for making it. Edit remarks and was almost censured by the democratic caucus over one. I noted Rashid ITALY, who probably has more anti semitic incidences, although she hasn't been cited. Over them and emotional babies was there to carve members of Congress unfair Michigan, one from minute they're pretty famous at this point, but you can say: ok! Well, how can you muzzle members of Congress? Well, how does that explain, Linda source or who is also a surrogate for they Bernie Sand,
campaign and has Miss arse or as one of the creators of the famous women's March for which she was so anti semitic that she was removed from her own organisation over Anti semitic. Controversies again, this is hard to ignore. Then you go into the Sanders campaign, not just limited to assert, gets here too. Members of the campaign who were involved at the center for american progress when, in twenty twelve, it was involved in an anti Semitism scandal and admitted as much according to Bernie Sanders campaign manager who handled the event relatively well, but The less was involved in the fact that a lot of his staffers were attacked by using language that play like the Adsl and Simon Decent all centre say, are apps thirdly, anti semitic language and it was even at Sanders Campaign Observatory ten, a low over the washings amateur filled in some of these Perhaps that I missed in this piece of she noted that dumb campaign Sanderson
four was removed from the campaign after Anti semitic and massage monistic tweets were uncovered and undid his political career. So is a pattern here, that's difficult. But nor and I tweeted out my article asking campaign reporters to ask Bernie Sanders about his apparent taller for the occasionally anti semitic outbursts indulgences rather of the people in his campaign and around his campaign and I couldn't awarded it more narrowly. But this was not the argument that was made against my peace. What was the result of a few We owe our burst and an attack on a series of straw, man among them that I had accused Bernie Sanders of Anti Semitism when I took very serious pains to avoid making. That accusation is a blatant and obvious effort on the part of Burmese Andrews defenders to see get more defensible terrain from which they can argue, which is not the premise of my peace, soil.
Do the argument, no justice. It will not be addressed by me. It is not a serious argument and anybody making it knows. It's not a serious argument because they cannot address the substance of the post. Opposed is very clear, he's surrounded himself with people who have been accused Anti Semitism, some of whom have admitted to it and it's come on us to kind of notice it, and at least I acknowledge the fact that there is some similarity between Bernie Sanders and Jeremy carbons toleration for these kind of these kind of behaviors are increasingly common on the extreme left. Ok, then we said it's almost word: Parcel of the ideology: now we should separate Sanderson carbon and into ways right, one of which is its Andrews's himself, jewish, the other is that call urban that, but I'm sorry, I'm interrupting you, but that was crux of environment, and I now see that you do. I ll write family in the Holocaust. Well, you know what every single jewish family in the world lost family in the Holocaust, so that that that, as an inoculation,
something that only ignorant and foolish people attempt, because that that that would. That would seem to suggest that you know that any you can say anything and is absolved of the charge that he might be bulging in or tolerated jus hatred simply by din, of having Some blood relatives who were you know who were done in that? Is it that's an absurdity, but the other is that carbon himself was one of his party's leading anti Semites em, a defender of organisations that targeted the target jewish civilians on the grounds that they are as culpable as Any one in it for crimes against out for Palestinians aren't like no name little institutions we're talking about Hezbollah, Hezbollah, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, any any any organization that hates is real and six. Its destruction was something the core
when called his friend so openness himself and open anti semite. In my view, of standards is a different story right so set that question here simply goes too. Whether Sanders having a policy director who has been implicated Anti semitic propaganda met us a and then what campaign manager facial care who had similarly has has been. Wild and such things, things that call the Obama administration to separate itself from the centre for american Progress and organization started to be a defender of the of the Obama administration, largely which had to say great itself from thing progress, which was the blog that does, I think, edited and that check your road for at thing, progress and twenty allowed deputy director of constituency organizing who is the individual, whose bad tweets resurfaced and had to resign.
So basically we're talking about three out three, not junior officials. At the campaign and Sanders own rhetoric. You know worth Sanders has recently said that we should give money to Hamas in Gaza. Like that, But when you say you should send me the Gaza that means are giving money to Hamas. Have we any so we have to ensure that a question about rethinking our alliances. He said we have to rethink our alliance with right as though we have more natural right of the Rhine and Israel by briefly on us. So we don't have to go all the way back to ancient history of twenty twelve when we're talking about censuring Johan, Omar, it's worth recalling. That's why she was being censured or would have been had the effort been successful. Was that she had attacked, Fellow law makers in the United States of demonstrating a quote allegiance to a foreign country with their support of Israel, does the dual loyalty card and that
Not criticism of Israel, but that's what Manta said it was. He said, or the effort was too to police criticism of Israel when, when she was criticising, were Americans quite clearly right and of course that was the all about the Benjamin's quote. I believe so that they were just doing this for jewish money anyway. So I think it's up completely uncontroversial thing to say that not just here, but that is to say that a campaign has staffers and surrogates who have who have problem Matic opinions that should be looked at by. Not only the public put by the people who are covered, the campaigns I wanna go back and say that you know, and twenty fifteen commentary, various other people, Ben Shapiro. You know when, when the Trump campaign seem to be associating with. Anti Semites we on the right were found.
That it was necessary and morally appropriate to you, no sort of like put their feet to the fire. Put Republicans we to the fire in this matter about how what these associations were in, what connection they might have to the tree campaign. Oh, I see absolutely no parallel analogous thing going on on the left with just the opposite, the opprobrium that I was there was, heaped around my shoulders over the weekend was really intense, and it was primarily on line nevertheless, from from real people and in the media in politics suggesting I had accused accuse Bernie some anti Semitism, which I did not, but also in interesting thing that you began to see from real, legitimate individuals and in politics. The first that comes to mind is Johns ugly, but there more who had Johns obvious himself. Joggerfys brother ran a you know. Basically, pro arab Anti, Israel Organization for forty
It doesnt they I'm not trying to make myself a martyr here, although there was quite a bit of a false accusations and attempted to tar me with my employers and get me fired and suggest that I had, criminal background sexual violations. In my history we include calmly, but nevertheless it was that's part of how this works, but the suggestion by in whose first comes my, but others too was that this was something that had been done to Jeremy Corbett. German Jeremy was on the victim of in messaging campaign. And that the same thing is being done to Bernie Sanders when what's happening here is we're just noticing yet by the way that that Do you have that this was something that was done to Jeremy Corbyn, that I've seen that a lot in the takeaways on the assertive liberal left media like that? What what what what the labor to feed What what that means for twenty? Twenty in the? U S is along those lines about you know hat. They're going to use everything they have
you know against us wrongfully to misrepresent us that that's the that's their pick take away. I mean a lot of guys have crossings are as good as it is a pretty concerted effort, among you know, progressive leaning journalists to to tell a new story about Bernie this election cycle to right. There's this big Buzzfeed thing called you dont know burning it's all about the kinder gentler. You know mostly in touch of themselves Bernie and it's it's kind of fascinating to read, because it doesn't bring up any of the things that we're talking about right now, the questions that should be asked, But it does also trying to paint him as this. You know selfless person leading an important movement and you do he seek Incas. Now he goes on his campaign stops and he said So it's not about me, I want you, Americans, to tell your story, speak to the cameras talk to them as if any Hugh,
being who ever ran for president doesn't have at least a healthy dose of narcissism. I mean Bert Bernie has to just like the rest of them, but there is definitely an effort to make a kind of kinder gentler. Less shouting, angry grandpa, Bernie Narrative, this elections I got in its not just in Buzzfeed I've seen bits and pieces of that here in their growing in the last few weeks. This story that we're talking about which is really important and the kind of questions they should be asking him, just as they should have been asking them of Trump when he was getting David, Dukes endorsement and yet with rigid Spencer types. It's not getting asked a burning, and that's why the tweet blew up, in my view, is the rise of worded as hate campaign run. This here's a sum that you know there's a gap here that you can fill, which is what scared burn standards supporters, because they desperately dont want that gap to be felt, so these were brush back pitches directed not at me, but a campaign reporters who might be tempted to listen rights. Part of the issue. With the way these things are dealt with on on Twitter, as we have this, we have this week of of of anti
if semitic events are responses to anti semitic events and the there is up The problem with social media is that it. It makes everything equal and stress if you whizzer them. The way things are stressed goes a tweet is a tweet is a tweet. Obviously people of more followers get warrant. Ensure that all that, but, as solve. You know you have one really bad tweet about something, not yours, but I mean like a tweet about worth. Somebody says something sliding about Anti Semitism were misunderstands. Eder says you know how you can't say, as Lord adkins. Who was the opinion editor of that of J T New said you know, no non Jew was permitted to say what Anti Semitism is that kind of thing
so then you get. This were preposterous series of debates about what is and what isn't and you're not allowed to say this, and how dare you you'd must apologise for saying something that I disagree with, that that there was there a bunch of tweets aimed at Noah where people say I apologise to like it. Friend like apologize to whom and why, should he apologized cause you're, you don't like it. Well, tough, you, how I mean Tough, so engage the argument or don't engage. If you don't like it too bad. This is the nature of public. Discussion in the United States and the the act this weird thing of this app policing demand for civility. That, generally only goes in one way, which of course, is that anybody who is a conservative who says anything about liberals must apologise for whatever they say about a liberal or leftist because liberals and left us, sir, just so it so fair right. It's
unfair. That Bernie Sanders, who is a twenty percent in the polls, is the number two candidate in I was now in second place in every pole. Nationally, should not have to account for his opinions on things like that's, not even are we. You know, what did you even say? Bernie Sanders should apologise. No, you said all right: this is going on. People need to ask questions about it period. And this is held to be unacceptable. Why? Because people don't actually believe in things worse. They only believe in open discourse when it involves people. Don't like talking about things that they don't want to, I guarantee you most people that thing or use Bernie Sanders of Anti Semitism, because that's what it's, where entire weekend was devoted to feigned indignation over the great offence towards Bernie Sanders, integrity and values and other means and asked him he's got jewish relatives and all that. What have you in that?
I all of it is immaterial very few engaged with actually the substance of the issue, which seems very hard source or was very loudly announces. You know one of his surrogates for this campaign. I mean just a few weeks. What two weeks ago, she spoke at a conference at the American Muslims for Palestine, and she said Israel was built on the idea that Jews are supreme to everyone else, and she went on and on Two weeks ago she spoke in a conference at the American Muslims for Palestine, and she said Israel was built on the idea that Jews are supreme to everyone else and she went on and on what they mean. She's constantly saying things that are very clearly, if not questionable, just outright anti semitic, and she is one of his spokespeople. I mean she, you know she said many vile things over the last half dozen years that you can easily find by just googling her wouldn't you rather live under Sharia LAW, because then you wouldn't have student debt mean its she's she's bonkers, I should add brainless. I'm sorry, giant lived. The whole blog post was was motivated by the fact that Bernie Sanders campaign endorsed Jeremy Corbett
bloggers. I should I bring with it. I'm sorry, just leave. The whole blog post was was motivated by the fact that Bernie Sanders campaign endorsed german Corbett. Day on the day of lofty campaign. That was accused of leading labour movement into Anti Semitism by the country's rabbi. The archbishop of Canterbury agreed eighty five percent of Uk Jews agree that Bernie Sanders is Anti semitic. German court, I'm sorry german corpsman, so it's not like they didn't know. But they were waiting into to and that they want to have it both ways. They want to be able to align themselves with these international leftist movement, but also Shame anyone into noticing the fact that there are also lining up with people who are accused credibly of Anti Semitic, thought and behaviour, and you can't have it both ways people are gonna notice. These and a yo see and endorse corporate, at least the tweet right we also do so. Did the centres campaign we tweet Albania's end Bernie Sanders haven't saying very nice things about german Corbett on the stump for sometimes Ryan pains
Dr Organizer, something like that. I mean it's interesting gazettes like it is one of these moments. When you like living in up. You know you feel like you're we're we're looking at. You know in the the world of the through the looking glass you know like I live in a world in which the idea of anybody say anything nice about. Jeremy Corbyn after the last couple of years would You know I mean people would like walk out of the room or were or start screaming. In response you know the leader of the some respects. The oldest party emulate the oldest lie of of in the world and now becoming important, in incidents in some respects. In the you know, in the country that is the good the cradle of of of Stern free thought, you now becoming an open, anti, semite and Hater of Israel.
Now only seven decades after the conclusion of the Holocaust is something that you know. It was almost unthinkable that too, All of us, why you know anglophile them people and love English literature and love to go to London and all that kind of stuff, and that There is this world of Americans who just think Jeremy Carbon is the cats pajamas, and they are One of them is get garnering. Twenty percent support in the democratic national primary and it is you know it's it's a wake up call the things that scene? incredibly important to some people are utterly meaningless to two others or- and this of course is ultimate question about this work, which is why you ask about the associations of politicians is. Is this a feature or a bug? Is The endorsement, of course, by the Santos campaign, the staffing with these people with
anti semitic associations. All of that is that something A flaw in the campaign that the campaign needs to address, or is it Harnessing of opinion adieu ugh whistle to opinions, it knows it should not openly advocate, but that it wants the once people's work paying attention to know that they have got their back out here play. Sanderson Democratic Party with Trump and the Republican Party ass, everybody gets it right away ass. There is absolutely no ambiguity bright, but here it's just that it sets a bridge too far in a little insulting. Am I need that That's a really important point than there is making, because this was something that I think it continues to be a source of conflict in debate. Among Republicans among conservatives, you know pro Trump anti drug. A lot of programme backers will poohpooh this idea that he was dog whistling today to the east. In writing the gnat white supremacist. We know he was a mean, its clear that that's what he was doing. The Charlottesville remarks made it blatantly obvious, but you know that is a disk
send. It internally has been going on on one side of the aisle. The thing that's so shocking to me about what's been going on with Bernie Sanders campaign, is that you really not seeing that same kind of conflict or soul searching them on the left. There are some people saying this makes me comfortable. But that's about the extent of it I mean it's its current clone breakaway columnist, let liberal leftist colonists. Where is he now? It's fine like talk about Trump seventeen times a week. It's fine, whereas the one peace that says Bernie Sanders is connections. They are making me uncomfortable. Where is MIC Christoph? Where is Tom free? Where is MAX boot, whereas Jen Reuben? Where are these people? Why aren't they opening a mouth because, like as it doesn't drive traffic? Maybe it doesn't? Maybe it will drive traffic. There's they'll get people, we can insist on, let them the way they got cast off it. You know, but this also in this country anything maybe do different, complicated ways from from in England. Theirs The issue of where, if you do come down
Some of these Sanders surrogates are women of color and then if you open your mouth, them that then, it's a whole secondary schools. The analogue Asian, the analogue to the Trump campaign, would be white working class, who you were just If you dared criticise these views, he works tacitly accusing swath of Americans who have work set by. So what about you know really there as well about people care, but let's put it this way like when, when when the, when the anti semitic assault started twenty fifteen on those of us who were speaking, you know in ways about Trump that his most extreme supporters were did not like you know. It was vile and constant am craze Gary and frightening at what wasn't that, if it wasn't and the burning rose. I mean, according to Hilary people them
sergeant. That was hurled at Hilary by Bernie, brows and twenty. Sixteen was very unnerving to them and supply. Is it because of course they figure well they're all leftist and they would therefore not in traffic in you know, Hilary Anti Hilary for being a woman, and you no jokes about her men. A pause in the whatever else are very well that friend, I'm sorry, you got precise, just going to say one one. More little point on one April saying about not speaking out against women of color mean I do think that Linda source, or in particular, doesn't get to where that mantle, because, if you recall a couple years ago, she tweeted there's two years ago, she tweeted incredibly vile thing at a Yawn Hersey Ali who as a child, was a victim of female genital mutilation, she basically tweeted she shouldn't have a vagina would take her vagina away like it was so vile, so one woman of color it out treating vile things that other women of color. I think she doesn't get to she at least
very little high ground to stand on. Ok, let listed pause here. So I can pull back and me the recommendation that, as the holidays approaching you consider getting. Quip before your for a present for someone in your family. It's some surely put a smile and everyone's mouth is its dental care. You'll they'll actually want to use every day the perfect, thoughtful and pray It will give them Electra to thrust refilled Wolf, Larsen, toothpaste, all intentionally designed to make good habits simple. I keep telling you the cripple toothbrushes, sensitive sonic vibrations and a timer with thirty second pulses to guide you routine and equip floss dispenser as Primo. String, so you always use the right amount. Plus quip delivers kids wasn't with based refills every three months joint over three million happy customers and check every one off your gift list. Right now, with quick, just gotta get quipped outcomes, less commentary to save
give sets out to get your first refill free with a refill plan that your first refill free at get q you IP Dot com, slash commentary, get Q, you IP dotcom, Slash comment briefly. Our good friend said Mandel sort of had a theory to x blame the silence in the face of this kind of threat from the Bernie Sanders left, which are all too comfortable with anti semitic thoughts and in called at the spine gap, and it has to do with the fact that not get too self aggrandize and care, but there was a healthy contingent on the right of which we were apart, that were very hostile towards Donald Trump. When he began in the campaign to indulge they sentiments of what would ultimately become the right. No such movement exists on the left and there seems to be no appetite for that kind of a movement, particularly when it comes to
Bernie Sanders and there's a thing that is maybe part. Billy attributable earliest mitigates that that response from the the responsible guardians of discourse on the left, which is that the alt right sort of even at the height of what we understood to be there in other moment, You sort of got the sense that they understood they were abominations because they didn't user Dan at ease they kept them. So you know they were. There are very conscious of the real consequences of advocating their views in the in the real world the Bernie Sanders types, though perceived themselves. Be the vanguard. They think they are histories vindicated by history. The ultimate force of history. The prevailing and they perceive their numbers to be far greater than they are so they could present something of a more credible threat to use that terminology, even though it may be, must pay I think I think something else needs to be said about Trump on this matter, particularly in relation to american jury, which is, I think, there was very good reason to be sceptical and worried because of the
what see that was being played with the all right and twenty fifteen and twenty sixteen in some of the views that Steve Ban and holds, and others about trump by the way, refusing to say that he favoured Israel over the Palestinians and that he wants to make a real estate deal into absolve the problems. You know there, to be worried that there were gonna, be problems in this arena, and I think after almost three years of him as as president The accusation which still come still is landed because of because people I have no sense of humour and don't understand that when Trump goes somewhere at a jewish meeting and makes a joke about how rich jus should support him, because even if they don't like him, his economically policy don't want to lose this one's leaking leaking our policies, and we know you from your money, separate you from your money and more borscht belt, humor of a Jackie Mason style that
ok, fine! So it's much it's it's! It's! It's easier, goes down more easily when it when a Jew makes jobs like us about other Jews, but that here policy conduct in his personal conduct and everything like that marks. As a unique friend of the jewish people in the White House and liberals still go along having taken smelling salts whenever he says anything including misreading misunderstanding this? This policy change about apply, title six of the Civil Rights ACT. To Jews and adding anti Semitism in a very Slippers way to turn to protected, two categories of speech that will be considered discriminatory under under these provisions and then you now and then, of course, the friendship that he's extended to
to Israel and frankly, I'm sick of this pedling by liberal american Jews of the idea that, because they don't like Trump, not for Israel reasons, but because I don't like abortion. They don't like his judges. They dont like whatever it is that they don't like that qualifies him as an anti semite, because if they, like them, he wouldn't be, and if he, if they don't like him, he is, and that's not only offence. To what it is to understand the meaning of and the problem with, and the horror of Anti Semitism, which, the application of reverse theories to Jews as the American go into greater detail, but that You know at some point. Trump has spent three years extending his hand and friendship to two to the American Jews and american them. The american Jews who refuse to accept the handshake are, are being
Churlish and they are they are acting in a manner that does not has nothing to do with jewels your tromp or Trump injury, or even believing, by the way that trumps policies towards Israel might be heard. Full in the long run, because they believe that it would be better if Israel confront did its own problems at the Palestinians rather than paper them over, but that doesn't mean in that Trump doing, it is an act of hostility or wrong headedness towards the jewish people, just as you know so, lucky sick I've. I've said he speaks and stereotypes and thinks and stereotypes and for Jews. The stereotypes are positive that can nevertheless have the effect of propagate stereotypes which is in great Nevertheless, if you're wrong, we concerned about that, you can't speak gotta, two sides of your mouth when it comes to Bernie Sanders propagating negative stereotypes are CORE Burke: carbon propagating
negative. Still, of course it matters if the stereotypes are positive or negative. I mean yeah is bad for people to traffic and stereotypes. Yes, but it doesn't matter what the stereotyping of the stereotype is. You know you, people. You know Rome dominate in of the media and control banking. So I'm scared of you and you the blood in your Motts. That's a bad stereotype. If it's like, I love you. I love the country that I love that the national homeland of the jewish people and I'm willing to do things that will upset people in order to spress. American support for that. Positive stereotyped, not a negative sorry. This is a trade that is shared by the left, which thinks and stereotypes was well under sexuality is. This is a method by which you can make an academic trend. Out of the thinking and stereotypes, the adapt close analogue is how the left thinks about asian american Families, Brighton and the
the discriminatory policies that are doled out to compensate for the positive stereotypes that they apply to asian american fan nevertheless as pernicious as anything negative similarly and does not assume it's not prenatal, I'm sorry, that's Diana mating, stare discrimination in law, ok, arms and of it that those are negative stereotypes about Asian Americans. They have their pet their fate. They have no personality, they're just grinds, thereby they wouldn't contributory community here at Harvard, because when you hear the elderly tossing on this, I firstly harboured. I know Saint think that they see their studious and they have an intact families now, but they don't. They don't know that. That's that speaking, the silent part out loud what they say is that they don't they don't have the personality. Asian Diana personnel are without doubt that, as one of the biggest hibernation mission is obvious said that they, just they don't have enough personality today,
contributions to our camp when that when, when they couldn't when they couldn't you know, take points, offer anything substantive or anything that there was an actual record if they would make that, they want you to go to the Harvard Yell Game and interrupted with climate change demonstration like like a good member of the Harvard community, but but I'm just saying, of course, it's better if you're stereotype is now in a negative stereotypes about about ethnic minorities are our but by definition, worse than positive stereotypes about us and joint or it is even if there is already a typing- is bad altogether as a matter of no social harmony while theirs. But I think now is intersection. Alley point is worth repeating mainly as a warning to the Sanders campaign because,
I can't I mean. Obviously they must have known. My sorcerer was booted out of the women's Marge, but there was a lengthy and and quite good journalistic effort. There was in the tablet right to level it. Yes, yet the tablet and wonderful piece about what happened. What intersection reality means if you're, a jewish liberal woman who wants to participate in the women's March, it means you're, not considered a minority are considered and oppressor. So I think that you know in and in all the stereotypes it were trafficked in base. Our sovereign and her supporters in the woman's march until she was booted out, played on this new kind of intersection. Reality logic, so just like Asian Americans can't be beleaguered minority because they achieve much in jewish women and women's March have to keep silent and be told that their oppressors and they're not big. They cannot. Even.
Stand up with a flag of the homeland of Israel, a homeland of the Jews and say we support this march, and we support the fact that you know Israel's right to exist. They weren't allowed to do that. I shall, I think, gangs ocean uncover good piece about this, about how and our sexuality, because it forces you to think and stereotypes, have means of being enlightened. Considered in the industry are typical view. You consider Joost, have institutional authority and power and money and then for they. There are less vulnerable to racist stereotypes and racial hostility than our other minor. What is in the front line of thought that, then we have what's been going on in Brooklyn over the last six months right to a year, which is to say the Jews without much power port. Portugal's living in Brooklyn and in borough part. You know black hat whose Alto Orthodox Jews a visibly jewish by by dint of their of the clothing that they wear and p
who tend to make less money than other people and have much larger families and and and and struggle because of the pursuit of the veto. Of the life of a religious person, are getting assaulted on streets because of what they look like and that you know, if This is one of the reasons why intersection reality is so horribly pernicious, because it's one, thing to say that somebody like me, you know, is an oppressor and it's another thing to say that again walking down the block on Friday afternoon, trying to get home to have dinner before Chavez who is who is beaten up by four kids. Some kind of an oppressor by the way. Once again knows point, imagine The reverse is sub. In a religion,
Jews for observant Muslims. Imagine they were getting assaulted, weekly in Brooklyn. It would be an enormous national scandal. Lillian outrage in the left would have no problem. Seeing it talking not met reason we something of an attributing it to political act, absolutely right, right It's interesting by the way that, given you know, jewish control of the media, as as south are friends at Mandela's when putting on twitter all week, so why is it It's a beggar story. What why is this fact that there have I think, sixty incidents because it has no political utility. To Mass MA. Okay, so that's it! So what what you can't blame it on Trump right? You can't blame it on the left or the right in London. Neither people committing these acts are themselves minorities who the left chamber. I also the I think, all otherwise, all the ones that we have liked filtering life.
None of us like that will be the time about that. I'm talking about the assault on the streets that we have. We have video footage. I was just thinking of the two mass murders and as many years right, but the mass murders are slightly different story by the way. Also Ino people ignorant Julie, I offer you being the most notable example. You know, accusing the tree of life accusing trump of being guilty for the tree of life, killing when the tree of life killer hated Trump for to file of semitic So that's an interesting way to blame Trump for being to do, to produce so he's gonna go up and in Europe a synagogue like that that's where the stuff gets now you can say, before that stuff happens somehow in twenty fifth signatory sixty The turned a rock over and gave people permit. To come more, openly out of the woodwork, but you know that's also true of carbon, that's part of
what's going on here with, there is no way that that a campaign as serious as Bernie Sanders is campaign in previous arrows would have had as its policy director a guy with history. That map does have that's. What's a terrifying about this, we can recognise that everybody can recognise that carbon unleashed the anti Semitism problem on the left in the UK and he opened the door made it more acceptable to come out with these sentiments and they after police because they were everywhere there. Everybody in the left acknowledges, and I would join them in acknowledging the fact that Donald trumps, reckless rhetoric and twenty sixteen gave a lot of noxious people permission to think their views were less anathema than previously believed and that's not just held by the way, but that So please into cliched ideas about the right. On the left and the words. This was like the wishful for this was like the negative wish. My filament of the left that everybody on the right was in fact a white
supremacist, racist and everybody can see this happening with Bernie Sanders. They all know it and their terrified at the fact that will notice it and it will become a thing and will have to be policed. And that's what this was over the weekend. This was about scaring people into not asking the questions that I asked not to allow then South is asking everybody's asking who noticed these things, but all these people by the way, the Van diagram of never trumpery people who are stepped sceptic trumpet twenty sixteen and who are asking questions about Bernie Sanders as they skirt circle. There's. No! but he outsiders and as it is very hard not to notice the lack of courage on the part of Democrats, can their own see. I will say one thing about Joe Biden campaign: ok, so we keep having this like puzzlement right that binds a twenty six twenty seven twenty eight percent and he's been there for thirty eight months something like that he's not dominating but he's in the lead he will be in the lead forever. I believe that the reason that, as is the case
because his employer, I need message without actually saying it out loud is. I am not them I'm not Bernie. I am not Elizabeth Warren, I am not Buddha judge. I am, and the version of this party, which means I'm not gonna traffic in you know, I'm not a socialist, I'm not gonna traffic in racial stereotyping of white people, to the extent that that is possible- and I not going go crazy on you. I may be Maybe you now old and weird and have weird stuff, but I am not the case but he doesn't say it out loud right. He does not because he has not been in a position where his prime, She has really been challenge in that way. It's the implicit message and what most First thing is that it is older democrats, particularly democrats of color, who, seeing
to respond most effectively to this, because they look at these white people teaching socialism and there like. Well, that's not what you know that. That's that's not what I'm looking for, I'm like looking for a job. I'm looking for more government money, I'm in whatever, whatever it is, that they want whatever I want appointment, I want better schools, I want it, you know I don't want a fragmented tat, adding an x to their retro, now their demographic, yeah they're, not yet more oarsmen yeah or you know they also don't like transgender bathrooms and transgender started all that stuff. So that, since its playing a role in the democratic primary, it is bad listing, the guy who was in the lead. It's just that it is not an open. Because I think it would be bad for the Democratic Party and the media are basically cats pause of the Democratic Party and are trying to make sure that Trump doesn't get reelected every
way that is openly possible area or covertly possible and when his crew, when his boomer acts, can assert trending. Now, like this disease, I'm worried that future, like Bomer ten years in the future. We're gonna happen to this is the other worrisome thing about the results with labour in the UK. The younger voters are on board with this. They are on board with us in that should concern everyone who is reasonable on either side of the political was most is heartening to see this from numbers of the press who this this, their job, and they regarded it as the preferred to play gatekeepers iron, and also I mean a U s: centre is ever fun to be dragged on Twitter by United States Senator. But this is a disease, not a socialist Chris Murphy. He's he's just responding to the the Twitter Mirage which, Was you know that the virtue signalling of the moment was to trash my tweet in my article, and so he jumped on board and that's really really scary? but you know, remember all law,
out of members of the press for the legitimate press, went along with the idea that calling out you're no more and suited to leave on their anti Semitism was itself an act of bigotry right. That was they. Volume border, because it because you know that this is look people say. Why are we in the fix that were in right, though the american fix, like policies gotten so dumb and all that stuff right well, ok so its forty years that that we ve had this horrendous educational system that has privileged and elevated politicized of to everything and- and- and you know, debt denigrated down- you know downgraded actual education and were too where two generations into this, so that now The people who were started to get badly educated are now themselves. You know have adult children who were the second generation to
we badly edge. So we think it surprising that people in their twenties have really stupid ideas about how the world works. I mean, where would they get good ideas? I'm serious, I mean where did what they just come out of the ether? Now people have common sense regiment. I think that's why the Medicare for I'll stuff, minimal. Looking like it was the winning thing to say. If you wanted to you know from succeed, the Democratic Party has turned out to be such a disaster because in that case, if you say one that has spent fifty two trillion dollars but nobody's taxes are gonna. Go up, accept like in a one percent of people. People go way I'm, not that good at bath, but I've been, I dont, get how that mass works. So there it's not that people don't have common sense, it's just that they don't have any kind of framework in which to understand. You know that the Sir Historical, the fact that you know we went through just we just went through a century in which so list ideas were given the most it out, the most
serious worked out in world history. And led to a kind of oppression, totalitarianism and monstrous that you know way. It's like a bad dream. Daft even begin to remember what the Soviet Union, just like he nest. Keynesian slow growth mean this was at the right time and you don't even have to go to mass murderers in order to make it as cases with the intellectual revolution at the end of it, twentieth century around markets in a week. We know what Keynesian isn't. Does it's really easy to measure the effects of this
thank God of averting Anders is not a keynesian. I mean he's a social rights Show Elizabeth Warrant is, I don't even know what she is she's, just whatever she needs to be at any at any given moment, but yet, but there but they're both what appeals to the this young generation. Is it they're both saying that capitalism is broken and isn't working away? It should, and that resonates whether or not that's correct, but I certainly don't agree that it is compared to the alternatives of socialism up, but that message does resonate with the younger innovation, lots actually something important to remember. As we look ahead like ten nobody but resonates, and I think for a reason I mean I've written a piece for our end of decade, package that I mentioned on the last point as we ve all written pieces for in I say that I think this story of the of the of the last decade is, the grow. The sense among Americans that that the people in charge of the country, have no idea what they're doing and that and that everything
they do goes wrong and they you know, and it too with the financial meltdown which obviously wasn't in this decade, but had its habits. Lingering result throughout the decade: goes onto a trillion dollar healthcare plan that is to be by a website that doesn't work for six weeks, so you you're here advocate for government take over of the entire health care system and the government can't one working website when every porn company in the world has a working webs. Now. And Ngos. You know and obviously sort of the results of the wars, and you know the horrible story about about how nobody in government had any idea how to win in Afghanistan and all that that that If you are a young person was grown up in over the last fifteen years that your sense that that people, don't What they're doing in the elites is
worn out by the results of the life that you ve lived, and so, if you want, I have no sense of history. The other problem, that's right! What works and what does it right but you can say that, damn if somebody harnesses that by saying the problem is capitalism, it at least has exe mandatory power biting part of the problem and twenty fifteen twenty. Sixteen, why Trump lapped and beat the Republicans, then? he said you, People don't know what you're doing. Nothing is war. That's the way you said it would all you, professional politicians, you're all a bunch of idiots and they serve said no we're not you're an idiot and he's like well, ok. So if you're gonna look between are they write or am I right? Like you know, I mean the power of saying you know well, will go along, but do things a little differently? Cause Obama was bad, so we won't be Obama, so will just be a little better, but where it out
and they didn't really have any explanation for the financial meltdown. Didn't have any explanation for this national sense of drift, and he did. You know whether good weather for good or ill, you know was we'd stopping great. We need to be great again and the elites of the elites have been destroying the country. So in that sense I think you know it's very bad. It's bad news of the people are wrong, headed about capitalism, but until you can show cop capitalist results, which I think is what happening now. That's what the jobs report this month is has. As its times. I've lived wrote a very long p. I know you re a magazine about two months ago,
I know you did by those words. Yes, I know the results are all around you. I just open your eyes had is the problem, but I don't. I don't want to see. How was your also took my people's own felt experience? It's obviously not everybody in America. Has this feeling right? Will they take the cat? The effect of capitalist innovation and, in short reducing poverty and elevating the human experience every day as just background radiation. It is taken for granted. But they don't care, because you know that the fact that the fact that half the planet has been has raised from immigration into some appropriate standard of living over the last thirty years, is not anything that matters to them personally, where their living some reference is why us attired Schreyer meant but like a three high now, but that it does it down to the millennium level right. But they know five people who are on who you know who who are like lying on a street corner. You know as sentinel and obviate attics org
They ve got family members who committed suicide, or you know what I'm just saying that the personal lived felt experience of a lot of peace oh, is that things haven't worked. Well, it's you know, things may worked well in macro terms: individual families breakups. You know drug drug addicts and all of that you know not been a good time but well see. I think that is the most generous reading on the anti capitalist, ok overriding economic having to get over scooter. That's me because, all at a season wash and all around you have not having how despair, but I, for an enormous chunk of anti free marketers out there, things are actually pretty good for them and it and they are not there. Saying any this out of any personal sense of suffering I know one resents ideas, success like people who are successful-
I guess I don't want to be more success. They their mad. The people are more successful, but there is also a broader kind of cultural shift in looking at the amassing of wealth, which used to be seen as an aspiration or thing right that we celebrated in terms of pop culture. Its now much more often depicted as an active corruption, write something seed. You know I was thinking of. What's the HBO show about the family, that model success hogs just session verses, lifestyles of the rich and fame is like there's. This idea that I mean both her kind of one was non fictional, ostensibly the others is fictional, but this idea that we use you delay Twentyth century celebrated the announcing a well that's how Trump made his own name is, is kind of revelling in his own gilded suppose it success and now there's a little bit more cynicism and in a kind of celebration that understand celebrating wealth is wrong, that there must be some corruption, and that's that Elizabeth, worn Bernie Sanders estimated at the June summit. We needed a cent fair,
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Then get thirty dollars off. When you visit Meet Circle, Dotcom, Slash commentary, enter commentary, gotta check out. That's an e t circle at dotcom. Slash commentary enter commentary, they thirty bucks. Ok, I want to ask Christine one thing and now has talked about this a bit before, but so that job all term that is used it to slight the current moment and the economic policies that have made that you know that that brought p from three dollars having a daily income of three dollars, but when ninety is extreme Bob Ok, I was, I was three dollars a day through most of the recorded history and then in eighteen in the year, as as urgent obviously various other think show how eighteen hundred to two now that three dollars is now,
I don't know eight hundred and sixty dollars astonishing. You know, increase fifty fold or something like that and what it is that most people make all because of the advance of of of of capitalism. The market so the term that everybody uses when you read crap all love social commentary is late. Capitalist. That we're in a period of late capitalism? So what is that does that's that I think, suggests like marks himself at the very beginning that were at the end were somehow nearing the end of capitalism that
right or how it is that what they meant. I think I think its appeal. Yes, that is, that is what they mean and I think that's appealing weirdly, that's appealing to the young, because the idea is when it when it gasps its last breath and will build something new on top of that something better something. You know that that the waste will build what socialism should have been in the twentieth century, but didn't managed to be like that. There's a weird kind of optimism and hopefulness about that when they talk about it, but you have to destroy the beast first and the beast is now late. Capitalism, although I agree, I think it's it's it's a very strange term that became I've seen a little less now, but it it. It has been wildly popular among the progressive left predicted the young progressive left for a couple years now to save having gravitated from us or academic papers and blogs, and all this into like movie, views and things like that. You know that what we are seeing here- and you know I don't know-
no, I, like global citizen, it's gonna buzz word. The right signals more about their author again at an argument culturally, there's almost like a sort of like it's a. Why Martha you Edward, wherein were in such a decadent phase of our decline. You know that, where district, where we're due for just to be you know I was highly capitalism, because then global warming will headed nimble you now we will be living in a booby living on an ice flow. I mean what are you not? Nice will obviously be now SAM Lombardo World out there, I think it should. I think it's late capitalism, because it's it's it's happening just before the revolution. But what it see that's what s interesting is- and this, of course is the story of the last. You know thirty years, which is their use to be an alternate theory of what the world should be like that was communism, socialism or communism actual socialism right. So you had people said this is what we have is terrible and there will be a revolution, will follow this new precept of radical again
protectionism, all government ownership of everything an end and the lapse of the Soviet Union and the fact that the only serve extent communist country of any power size or meaning is China. It's not like. If capitalism is overthrown, that anyone has laid out a theory of what each comic system replaces it like. I know who has actually there's only one. I mean there with the exception of the small tribes there no alternative theories of social organisation to the one that we have now with one exception, and that was the ices Caliphate that had crafted a very alternative theory of human social organisation, adapting markets adapting human interaction it was, it was a tie, different theory of helping. We'll should organise themselves that are the only one sick I think with us in the twenty first century. I think that's a very interesting point, not just the ICES Caliphate, but the whole idea of- and you know if people people on there
I wrote after nine eleven wrote, disturbing novels and things like that about what it would be like. If there were a sort of you know, it is Let's take over the United States or extremism. Succeed it right and then there is of course well. It backs novel mission, which is which is about an islamist takeover of of France and how a man Member of the soulless technocratic atheist elite ends up being deduced into himself becoming an Islamist largely, could see, gets a sixteen year old virgin as his wife and and therefore in our seduced into it. But what's interesting about that at the time, was that it was like a plausible nightmare scenario. Somehow, and yet one of the effects. Of nine. Eleven was that it did precisely did not have that
take over, and that was a wild misunderstanding of who we are and what an what such an attack would would, these ideas, not not you now feeling like them there need- was to bow down before them so that I think that was the end and the purpose of nine eleven was to hasten some kind of ay and American. The car and that would lead inevitably to some kind of sharia take over, and that was wild misunderstanding of who we are and what an what such an attack would would would do us. They thought we were in late, liberal in his work. Quite area right, no they're all beginning with baby. It's called outside its rise. I would
of course, now you know say: put up, has support from american feminist to think that baby it's cold outside is the work of the german version, the liner would decision city. If anybody love in the german version, still one of the wealthiest songs ever read about absorb. Who knows how? I guess what that will bring this to a close for Norsemen steamers jump onwards,.
Transcript generated on 2019-12-23.