Today's podcast wonders at the bet Joe Biden has placed on the possibility that the chaos in Afghanistan relating to the exit of Americans will be short-lived and that he will suffer no long-term consequences from it. Is that bet likely to pay off? Give a listen.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Welcome to the Commentary Magazine Daily Podcast today's Wednesday August eighteen, twenty twenty one, I'm John POD words the editor of Commentary magazine. We have our the timber issue up and available for your perusal commentary, dot org, we give you a few free reads: emasculate subscribing! You know you should subscribe, so go subscribe. You really ought to its one way. You can see you can support the pot cast a few. If that's the main element of your enjoyment of commentary, but we have a remarkable issue up one of our biggest
in years. Seventy two pages imprint where you ve all events, masterful article we talked about yesterday on what we got right in the fight our own, Christine Rosen to pieces in the same issue, one on me questioned whether there's going to be a parents movement in the it states and the other about the continuing war, on objectivity on the part of the mainstream either. We have Joseph about writing about cats. For those we will love cats and I'm not talking about the musical cats we'll talk about a lot more that we have had on the issue and cousin on the. Thirty year anniversary of the Crown Heights pogrom and then steward, on the twentyth anniversary of nine eleven and the efforts to web
Red Con nine eleven into an american imperialist, aggressive act or something that tub that was conveniently used by american imperialists too, in the minds of left us journalists to allow America to work its imperialist will and why this is an evil ideas. We can see whereabouts talk about with Afghanistan right now, I know, Rossman pick one thing that happened in the last twelve hours that particularly horrified Surprise you, God! You want one incident, because we have incidents all day for those in the twenty four hour since we talk last yeah right it was the one that's their struggle. Log onto a kid, it's actually not is actually not just pull it up, because I want the exact wording- and this, I think, was
this invisible developing minute by minute. So it's difficult to say you know what the law as latest development is that's gonna, be an absolute nightmare, but Washington Post reported yesterday and according to a couple of sources that other reporters had a few more times. I think politico confirmed it that the United States estimates now estimates somehow estimates that we have roughly ten to fifteen thousand american citizens, knocking out that tens of thousands probably close to eighty thousand people who live valid claims to, or as I status just american citizens in Afghanistan, we don't know were most of these people are, most of them are not in. U S, custody at this airport and capital, which is already overrun. and we have no plan to get them out. The plan does not exist. The mechanisms don't exist, the logistics don't exist. We do not know how to get these people out
and any one of them could become a hostage that can tie policymakers hands It's an incredible liability and the notion that the United States, the worlds leave headroom on the sole power capable of sustained power projection across the globe. Just can't do it not because we got The passing we just do not have the will, which does not exist in the White House where the pentagon- and that is a thought that I do not think I would ever encounter- express. It is shocking. The extent we have settled in a warm bath of national decline The assumption here on the part of both coalitions, most vocal aspect, of both the boat coalitions that this is one Americans want American just want retreat and surrender
sacrifice everything we ve gained in this country and sign in and put into. It is some physics incredibly disheartening that the prospect that portends and I'm hoping to God it doesnt materialise, but the prospect of a national disaster a no A lost dunkirk looms very large Dunkirk Sidney stick analogy, obviously, because the Dunkirk analogy is it. There was a an army trapped, behind enemy lines, effectively trapped on a b, Almost four hundred strong and and there there was a beach and there was a way to get boats across the ocean to get the people. an uncharacteristically com channel Run ACT of God facilitated that exactly so. You had this astonishing mass evacuation
I think in some ways brings home we keep having this discussion about how we have a forever war and there's a forever war, and we need to end the forever war? It's enough with the forensic war but for most everybody this an abstraction most people in the United States. Don't have relatives in the military most people in the United States. Don't know anybody who served in Africa. Stan, we don't know anybody who would be working in Afghanistan in part as a kind of an ancillary product of the mission that we went into twenty years ago in Afghanistan, and this is what happens in war in war when, when The enemy takes over territory, the p who are on the other side, are in grave peril. Tat is, the nature of war front, I'm in the moral, and it is as though the american military and the White House did not reckoned with this.
possibility at all As though they too thought this war was an abstraction that this wasn't conventional circumstance in which You take over of territory by A hostile adversary would in danger the wrong people, who remained when the government fell? Ok, but I am two and a slight rant here I have a family member who is, is in the active military services in the armies, tenth mountain division, which currently Afghanistan, their part of the group is protecting the airport right now. And I am I'm enraged not just on behalf of our american military servicemen and service women, whom this this administration has says, thinly, veiled contempt for but the idea that american citizens who are non military civilians are collateral damage and Joe Biden campaign promised ass. The part the talking to me so, let's, let's contrast what the UK is doing for its citizens, who are still in Afghanistan there
phone number they can call they have. Procedures are trying to put in place to get those people to an evacuation point. Journeyman in Afghanistan right now you fill unformed, they actively discourtesy, don't call the embassy of his legacy. Embassies gone, don't mean just make your way to the Kabul Airport, make your way to the airport and we cannot guarantee or safety. That is not how this country treated citizens when they are in peril and afford nation. That's not how we do things and, and this administration is act they tie the hands of the military, which could actually do more to go. out there they're not allowed to it's. It's a complete debacle, there's no other word for it and we are going to see Americans mean setting aside what's happening right. to all the Afghans, we're The Americans Americans die because of the incompetence of this president, and I don't know any other ways it I'm still angry. I thought I would be calmer hostages go by, but the more that I read about the more I see the more angry I pick up
and our allies are standing in the world is- is tangibly reduced. As a result of this effort, of german officials are fit to be tied over how this went down into the talking about having a were basically work for puppets of the american regime. They tell us to do something in the march to its neighbour their expressing much discontent. Parliament is on fire this morning, with speeches from labour and conservative in Britain in Britain. Yes, just just jumping all over this administration, forest Johnson has shamed this administration by pledging to take upwards of twenty thousand afghan refugees, which is the commitment we should have made and somehow cannot for reasons. I do not understand the United States military, which has secured the perimeter of this castle airport subsequent betrayed for lack of a better word gotcha allies, when they prevented Turning to the readers report, U S
forces directly prevented armed security forces from the United States allowing Afghans to enter the gates, even if they had the wrecked credentials dutch credentials to ensure the plane the dutch plane! That was only in the ground for about a half hour before it took off empty empty, because people can get through the current
are. Our european allies are very disappointed in us and our very vocal about it and done. We should be humiliated by that Sears. You know the longer this goes on and it occurs to me no someday you'd said since Biden first announced that that we were doing this swiftly, the swift withdrawal that we would be back and Afghanistan added at a time not of our choosing, so that time seems to have been immediately right up. We ve now sent back in six thousand more troops, maybe more when are they gonna leave can considering
We have five to fifteen thousand american Americans there who have no way of getting out with checkpoints with Taliban checkpoints and like we kind of in now mother said. We will we will. We have a new war on our hands, essentially here's another thing and we should get into one checks: elements: press conference. Estonia, which was absolutely the national Security Adviser agreement, Visor, Jack Sullivan and down ammo corbies. They defence Department spokesmen, both of whom intimated sort of obliquely, that the cattle airport was not fully under control Terry Size, but the civilian side, low, shaky, seen him report last night, which has just there was mine, bogglingly frustrating because of the bureaucratic morass and what your allies are stuck in, trying to get on its planes, but it cannot. and the way we want to add this man massive source An error left in a one of the world's greatest airlift. Count
functions in that way. Until we get the commercial side up and running in commercial flights, resuming and that is not even on the horizon unforeseeable. So much is tearing down the barrel of a this human type. Could you converging on the airport, outside this airport, making access to the four inoperative and also ceasing to function as a source as runway that we can take civilians and military. personal out of Afghanistan. It is it's the strata, he is collapsing before our eyes. The idea here on the by the present by demonstration was make your way to the airport where they, however, you can, if you can and will get out that way that didn't last twelve hours well they're plaguing the Taliban with like it's. Ok, we talk of the Taliban. They said they're gonna, let you through what there is clear evidence now that that is not in fact, what they're doing they are blocking access to the airport. That's what they're doing also Taliban is now and many headed hydra. Let's I mean The circumstance here is that you have tens of thousands of Taliban.
the visual people want peering through the city, doing whatever it is that they do. That is also an element of war after the take over that's when the looting happens. That's why The booty is taken and in this case there is a kind of any or religious or Siena theocratic booty to be had witches. The humility, mission of women, the emails subjugation of people under Europe under your jack boot. individual fighters individual Taliban members, because clearly you know that they are not yet organised. This all happened so fast, even for them that it's like the day have an organized plan for how they are going to administrate, the city and the chaos is going to go on for days and days and days and days and days. That's one of the things that happens and that's why Americans are unique.
the risk and we're not where now we only talk about the Americans, Kabul not every American, is Kabul, in fact we don't know where the amount guns are nor how many of them are are, are about, and outside of the you know, are not within a mile of the airport there where they were After somehow, you know Forty four, the streets you know at at at immense risk just to get somewhere near where they obviously couldn't, imagine you're going to a ball park and there twenty five thousand people standing in front the one entrance to the ball Park ever I'm trying to get into this. One doorway: that's what it's like there! That is the circumstances under which, in America who is tat to make his way to the airport in order to get on maybe a plane or to be protected by american forces
yeah the impotence that this that this suggests, is What's a pretty close to being without precedent, I mean we had a circumstance. Of course, on which we had fifty diplomats taken hostage in IRAN in eighteen, seventy nine. We now have an incidence in which we have thousands of thousands of Americans who are there not hostage because they're, not you know in there ends of the Taliban, but they without resources and without ability to protect themselves and without any the possibility of getting to save barber and then so I think ass to a slightly larger point about the bat and ass. It turns out all these sorts of decisions are bets. The better Biden has made here and the Biden people working for him are making here.
that is that this is gonna in the end go better than it looks like it's gonna go. There was always that that we're gonna pull out afghan forces woods. And up, or they would stand up at least long enough for us to be away long enough, so that when they fell, they fell on their own and not because we left or but where could make a case that they feel on their own right That was the first bet that bet fail where we now have this spat. Tibet is. In two months. Stucco look so bad actually we made a deal with the Taliban. The Taliban held the deal they let us a more. They didn't want to appear. They didn't want to get us angry at them. They want to control. look. They have their own internal mission really about us and we'll get out, and in two months this wall be like a bad memory. it's always bad. Everything is always chaotic and sword rising yeah we're gonna, take a hit for it, but it How can a matter that much and that's the bat
If the bet fails. Not only is american a prestige heart not only will the one trusting. states again You know when we say where your friends were here to help you were gonna. We're gonna have your back right that that's over with forever, but Eric it's gonna be staring down the barrel of the fact that a choice was made to As I said yesterday, pull off the band aid and the cut wasn't healed and the blue It is now flowing out of the wound and we're gonna go into sepsis and Biden. Owns that entirely entirely. in a way that almost no one has ever owned. Any decision ever because of the
fact that it was a decision he did not have to make so enjoy buttons, unnerving absence during this crisis, I really don't think can be attributable to just lethargy per apathy alone. Something is going on and there's a ministerial because they are just dragging him in front of the cameras to but laboriously address, but the pleads are demanding of him that, in the collapse of american Power overseas in such a spectacular fashion, and suddenly he plans to make an address uncovered response exclusively on the covert response. Only talking about that. So maybe what this is. A signal to the media, that the new cycle in Afghanistan is overly move on a little bit wanted questions obviously, but You know: you're a scene dancer and begin to break among Democrats,
sort of a leading indicator that he is nevertheless, chairman of the Senate Foreign Affairs, committee, centred on an end, as already jumping off the boat saying you know something really terrible happened here. We need a full counting other from his administration, no excuses. I haven't seen just about I'm seeing any Democrat make excuses for This thing in other change are subject to talk about women's issues. Where have you in human rights and an opening? people ass. He had sort of a half hearted effort to support the then presidency, at the same time criticising the same statement. if he does that, if you just shows up on the stage and says uncle covered up up up up up and leaves I don't think it's hard to envision the damn breaking. I don't think it's hard to envision Democrats getting off the boat in saying. Ok, this administration is just not addressing this. The urgent crisis we have here there and there are some button Biden boosters who continue to pretend as though this not a colossal foreign policy crisis with that is urgent and ongoing.
that hasn't caught on that message, Really doesn't have much of an audience. They're gonna keep trying, I think, until absolutely explodes on the tarmac, but this could be yet equity this afternoon you know someone mentioned. in a story or in passing at the other day that well Biden sponsoring in his Delaware basement, was an excellent strategy, as it turned out. For running an election in during an election is the absolute opposite. During a moment of now, from price, as we are in a moment of national crisis and him hiding deepens that crisis, and I think that that, for some reason, the people honesty and in some ways they trotting amount in front of cameras not to make a statement then disappearing back to Beijing without taking questions. Is almost works like you really just rather keep him here. or haven't come out and faced the music in their doing neither its very strange okay so they're gonna, be economic ramifications, in consequence from this. We ve already seen economic ramifications and consequences over the last months from the
also variant. We have bad consent. for spending numbers for the month of July, and if you want to follow, gradually what is going to happen as a result of what has happened over this weekend in this week. You need to with our friends the bonds and Group David Byrne. And his team, with three billion dollars under management and David's. daily and weekly news letters on the internet? You can sign up and get free the DC today that common Dividend CAFE. How come the Deasey to data com, which comes out around six p m, offer a snapshot of what happened during that day in the markets at the FED in Washington, with some political and social analysis, dividend CAFE. Dot com does a larger, more thirty thousand foot zoom out macro
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We continue to have these intellectual class. That knows talking about that is, a bunch of whom are defending Biden and They continue to say, what's her and here is the retroactive justification for the decision to pull out, because because we pulled out and of collapse so fast therefore, we should Then there are also we should uphold out, but ITALY it was executed badly no one can say, wasn't execute all was executed so badly, and it's real company in right That way is sort of like bindings Katrina, competence issue. It's not that he is to blame for that hurricane. You can't blame Bush for the hurricane, but famous response on what happened. Worlds, odds are competence issue and they didn't know what he was doing and they didn't care, and so he suffered and by he's going to suffer that that's in that serve general mindset of people who were
well I'd say, but you can't blame him for this, because can see from the results that The decision was appropriate and This is driving you mental. It's it's totally dishonest because asserting that the the the debacle justifies the debacle, in other words had since said,
the afghan army couldn't stand on its own, it shows which we should have left it on its own. This supposes that the that people who, like us and others who want who wanted us one of the U S to stay in Afghanistan, are still arguing, for example, that were there to turn Afghanistan into a robust, thriving democracy that can take care of all its problems on its own. I don't, I don't know anyone whose whose
No, who believes that? That's why we are still there and and thinks that is possible within the near future, reorient the myth that the er, even in the long term, it's ok to acknowledge that the mission has changed since the time we got there and what the mission became was keeping the Taliban out of power and that's a very good mission, and it is one that it turns out the U S can accomplish, and that is what we ve been doing so to argue, and so to argue that the view that the meltdown shows that the mission was wrong is kind of tools
about what the mission, what will then that we were not there to enable the afghan army to stand up all alone without us Ray? I would add, it wasn't just to keep the Taliban power. That is part of a grander mission. Grander mission was to interrupt, disrupt and deter of non state actors in centrally turn South Asia. So many tat can stand as a base to execute a striking in Pakistan and no longer have the capacity right now. Here's the thing, the other party the dry is driving me is. Is it is driving me to distraction? Is there we shift in our mission. Also, exclusively to what you are talking about, Abe twenty fifteen and twenty fifteen we began to withdraw from active on on the ground, Combat role
and surrendered that role or a sign that role or move that role to the afghan army with us with with us, providing air support, intelligence, logistics, training and advice? ok, Trump and we gotta talk about Trump for awhile Trump, impatient. He said it was stupid. We should get out and he, inaugurated unilaterally this process, beginning in twenty eighteen towards some kind of a negotiated exit, but let's get after the numbers here twenties, fifteen to twenty twenty one. That is six years. That is six years in which America effectively retreated from any role the ground in hope the territory and you Seeing are military,
force to India. Each directly face to face, be no gun, two gun whatever you, call it with the Taliban six years. It was a different way or it was a different kind of military combat. It was a different kind of struggle and it was Going and I hate to say this because I know that It wasn't going fine, but it was going eggs. Actually, as such a mission could go, it was going exact. we have such a mission could go. No, our friends. The long were Gerbil Reggio Tom Tom Joscelyn say the word. losing this war was inevitable, beginning in twenty eighteen, when Donald Trump started this negotiation, because once you negotiate with the Taliban, you weren't negotiating your exit and of the Taliban and see you were gonna exit. There is just a matter of them: either agreeing not having duenna words, they do and
such time as you run out of patience with the proper less and say: okay, I work we're just we're leaving now we ve had enough and it took three years. they may have lied to themselves. Alcohol is who was hired by trumpeted. Do this job of negotiating at an and kept on by Biden too, continued the negotiation with the Taliban, maybe they d themselves that they were getting somewhere, that they were getting things that they needed, that it was as Trump claimed falsely despicably last night on Sean Heavy show that this was they can. He had planted Condemn based, withdraw it no such thing had. He bore in president in twenty twenty, I think What a pulled out in in I just like? He said he would have, and we would have seen something- probably not all that dissimilar from this. I don't really know. We can't know that, obviously, but six years and we have to go back to the point that.
If we were the band aid and we pulled the mandate. but it had to be pulled off the tallow, and we're going to pull it off. They didn't the means to pull it off galleys, didn't we pulled it off. Are those we pulled off the bandaid, the band. I could have stayed there. Wasn't losing it as its adhesion. It wasn't, looking like it was gonna fall off and then the we were going to read the whirlwind. It was impatience and a desire to say I ended this war that led to this result under two presidents and right now, We are seeing tromp attempting to make Hey out of a process that he began and whose shame dishonor? He shares a piece of, and we cannot. I Biden. Owns what happened here and he's been present for you know, seven months, and he owns what happened here, but he
as building on something that Trump started and trumps idea of saying this is the worst humiliation in American, his which was what he said ass. He always says everything is the worst of the bastard whatever it is it. He did if that the case, then he needs to hang its head in shame and got bury himself in the whole of his own devising, because he sent us on this path, his own feckless, foolishness and an end slogan: hearing nonsense about how we shouldn't be doing what we were doing, when what we we're doing I believe we're gonna see was clearly better than what was gonna happen if we weren't doing it so the bed to them the by ministers in the White House and in adapting the feed sin foreign policy graybeards consensus where have you They all think that this probably just gonna blow over in terms of public sentiment that the public,
was really over Afghanistan. They don't like what they're saying now, but don't forget about it in two or three months: it's not two thousand three anymore in out. The NEO cognomen is over. Nobody is interested in power projection and they only want to sink every last dollar into the welfare state. Is that you think that's true. I mean I don't know. I honestly don't know. I don't know if I have my finger on the pulse of the country anymore, but obvious, they're, not gonna, like with her singing and pull numbers, are going in the wrong direction for Joe Biden, but Americans aren't of two minds on this. They do want to get out. They don't want to get out this way. What is it look like in two months? If it gets, you know if it get it, we assuming it, gets worse in the near term, and Reach settles into something resembling a sustained status quo in the near enough in the next two or three months. Where does the public on us
I mean, that's the bat the bed is, if, if it looks horrible and terrible things happened to Americans and even when, even worse things happen to Afghan there. I like it and they're going to be against what happened? I mean is already happening, wish to say that there have been there have been demonstrations against Taliban rule that have been put down violently you're losing and covers the something resembling the northern alliance to point out congealing around Missouri Sharif, that sort of thing doesn't necessarily stop with our evacuation efforts. What's with percent of into anything? I will only get worse and policy. Papers are gonna going to find the prospect of militant groups. Well. Armed militant groups well funded militant groups red. You re congealing and developing the power. That's for terrorism, again, they're not gonna, find that a tolerable prospect so yeah exactly. I look We all have to hope that the bet was good right. We all have to hope that what
were there talking to the Taliban about, holds and that the Americans can get out safely and that the Europeans can get out safely and that over the next ten days there will be even though it's gonna look awful look disordered that it's all gonna end up with our people out and were were gone. In the end, the minimum of of horror. Its armed forces and everything like that, and that the bat. That's where we start it binds bad is it. This is gonna, go better than it looks like it's. Gonna go right now and I Hope it does because every person should hope that there is in the massacre in every person should hope against hope because there's no reason not to hope it that the Taliban learned their lesson and that the press conference they gave the other day. Is the renewed Taliban enough, the old Alabama that they're not gonna, be there Eleven they're, not gonna, kill some tens of thousands of people and all of that, but
hope is not a strategy and, generally speaking you that hope we can have it it's it'll happen, I won't happen, and you bet I mean it's ninety five percent likely it's not gonna happen. I mean what we gotta take just come more sophisticated, propagandists the Taliban, so, for example, they they did. This whole thing about, oh you know, will will respect women's rights according to show real laws are right there. You have a contradiction, but they date they had a female anger at stake. The state new service interview, Europe's someone about this, and he even He did this propaganda and then the next day she was fired, of course, and replaced with a male anger. So it's not me they haven't changed. It just change their propaganda strategy. I will say this, though, into the question of Americans feelings about this. It is true that Americans in general, don't like the sort of forever war. They were dead, the pulling embers about Afghanistan supported what what I was doing, but
Americans also don't like to be humiliated on the world stage, and I think if we start seeing the humiliation of those Americans who are so trapped in Afghanistan, am not able to get out if they are in any way, tortured him or held house The german or made pawns in the Talibans games that they're gonna start playing very quickly with with the west than that. That will be a shift in public opinion. We do not like to be humiliated and publication. Think that's why you see the really sharp change in withdrew Oh Paul numbers this week when we see ourselves bungling something on the world stage that gets people's attention, even if they do tells of along foreign strategy in Afghanistan have not for the past ten. I mean there's no way to get these Americans up now. They're, not gonna, be done their job. They are all you have to get off the ground for the foreseeable future right and there's no contingency plan to get them out inevitably at if we don't addressed Situation, it will become.
One of the worst humiliations, perhaps in a bloody humiliation for the United States in its history right. Well, I want to talk about the right and its response to what's going but first let me talk to you about our new sponsor re kind. Wireless airports how you feel about gettin back out there. If we back healthcare theirs denying its an adjustment to get out of your house and go back to normal and when the world gets too loud sums people will have to do is create their own soundtrack, and they can do that by popping in re con wireless hereabouts look. Sometimes you need a big music, can't you before you see people stay calm with some guided meditation you're going. the jam you want some
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by re, can't dot com, slash commentary, so among the issues that we have really been brought up. Is the continuing a catastrophe involving those who worked on We or even indirectly, for thee Africans in the west in their efforts to do whatever it is that we ve done in Afghanistan. Fifteen to twenty thousand people who have applied. for asylum in the United States and others, and I note with horror and the sky still not enough prize, but in its very important that we focus on this topic, as its very convenient to say that everything bad that is happening is happening in the precincts of people whom we who were the illogical foes, but Lord Ingram Tucker Karlsson, people at the federalist others, are saying things like. Why are we even talking about bringing these Afghans here? We can't be.
Eric- I bring them here. They don't share our culture. They don't share our values days. Go somewhere where there were people like them, are Where they live and they have, they have their own way, because we don't There are just not appropriate, for here, were creating an afghan refugees, flood Stephen Miller, talker Laura Sean Davis, a bunch of other people. And then I don't. I don't have the vocabulary with which to describe my horror, loathing, discuss, disdain and repulsion with this Russian of these views, you could have said exactly the same thing about it. Vietnamese in nineteen. Seventy five, which Democrats did by the way, including turbine
That's right, Reverend Owen call them prostitutes, they all objected to the resettlement of it in his wretched, yet because weather beaten, his came here about a republican rely what yeah and We got a million of them and they have been a glorious addition to the american melting pot. ray experience that we have had with refugee, populations who come here seeking you in in desperation, Cubans. lotions the enemy is Campbell, come this country and they and they are provided stored, unmarried benefit to us I have no reason to think otherwise of the Afghanis and these these the these people are. are our anti american anti human Anti. Passion. anti serious and they are just.
Waiting to the worst elements of the of this kind of turn the stone over and see the actual. You know blood and soil Americanism for what it is. I really think they're misreading the room here on the day of the idea that sort of decision nurture that has led them to discern determined that, in this moment of abject national humiliation, with the right really wants to send a phobia. I dont think they're they're really taking the temperature here very well between the left, which is committed, capitulation and the right, which is equally computer. Accordingly, we can't we can help our friends and allies we're just spent force. We should literally Josh hammer at news weeks said that this isn't that the late stage empire needs to come home and just see to its own, its own affairs, because, where it were spent for support, there's a huge, horribly underserved market for pride
for national ambition, for having some spine, some sense of America's mission in the world no one's speaking too. That constituency- and I think it's a pretty big, considered duck as they all hate this country. Let's get. Let's get down to brass tacks. This is where you mention with Josh Hammer that was George. Mcgovern Slogan in nineteen, seventy to come home America, come home. America tend to your own garden, we go out in the world and either we are correct, by the world or we corrupt the world. Nothing good comes of it. We need to pull our walls and sittin here, and you know why cause we worse than Taliban habits were worse than the Taliban logic, How about this whole idea that Here we are, and you know, they're more serious than we are their serious. They worries they have a set of values and a set of values, and we don't they don't have dragged I'm story our and therefore
better than we are our problem. Is that we're worse we're we're? than the Taliban. This actually an idea. That is I think it's it's an idea. It's a facile idea, it's it's! It's mostly being said in. Bizarre way to be part of the idiot asked did the culture wars, the United States, that that makes it that would have serious conversations about what really needs be done to combat woke ism and Anti Americanism, but the hatred for this country that is emanating from parts of the of the what you don't. We consider the right and this idea that we're getting what we deserve we are so morally stained that everything we touch turns to garbage an end, We need to leave places alone, because we
make them worse and we make ourselves worse and- and just just gonna sit here and rot is, is of. very striking fact and that's why I think we're no is right that we have a there's. A real understood market here I'm worried. I'm kind of struck by the fact that this is the market. This is people are reading the market on both sides- Christy gravest doubts is glad that, having grown up among fundamentalists there, there is a strange it. It sounds perverts but there is a real longing for the end, there's a longing for the ten times as a longing for decay, because it fulfils, and in the case of how always raise it, fulfil certain prophecies. That would eventually see your team come out on top down a lot in Heaven on time, but the idea that there was a real sense that, as you see everything collapse around you, it actually justifies devalues. You claim to hold and that's true on both sides- the differences. The outcome, I think
know what the outcome is for these people on the right. It really big its confusing on the left, its very clear. It's it's a massive growth and extension of state power here domestically be the argument. Is we can't be bothered other stuff. Over there, we ve gotta be spending our money and time an interest here at home. I'm using it and or isolating the elements of our culture and and the parts of the population that don't agree with us. That's the Michael more comparison of the January six capital incursion with with an insurrection attempts with with what's happening right now to tell them so
have different outcomes. I think that the kind of thinking a kind of very fundamentalist kind of thinking it is is similar on both sides. Will here? I think they are. I think it means that they are both sides preach that America is the problem. Merrick his enemies are better than we are. I think the difference comes in what they take to be America's original sin on the left, its racism on the right. It's secularism,
urgent or something but but both are sort of in a radically intertwined in who we are and therefore of guarantees are, do I think I mean I share your fear, John, like I don't know that their reading there room wrong. I don't know. I think that remains to be seen. Everyone is getting very everyone's, getting a huge kick out of running down America these days, like that's, that's! That's! That sort of war. Why you get into political discussions? Now you now to talk about how awful everything is, and that's there's a sort of run away pleasure in that for some people, and I don't know where that stops. To be honest,. Look, I've been Churchill in nineteen, thirty, eight famously said when, when
We were told, or the world was told, that there would be peace in our time in Czechoslovakia was. sedate lamb was handed to to Hitler. Right, he famously said you had a choice between dishonour and war. You choose whose dishonour and you will have war, that's one of the great quotes of the century, and you know Churchill said I do not begrudge our loyal brave people who are ready to do their duty, no matter what the cost, who never flinched under the strain of last week. I do not grubs and unnatural spontaneous outburst join relief when they learned that the harder deal would no longer be required of them at the moment, but they should know the truth, meaning you know Britain's cheered when An chamberlain came back and said he brought peace for a time, Maybe the one salvation here. For the United States, We are not searing shit, we're not seeing cheering. We are
seeing people say thank God, we're out of there were not out there and Churchill was this was he was the most prophetic person the twentieth century. He was, we, who saw exactly what was gonna happen. now ten years before seven eight years before World WAR, two can he was sounding the alarm about everything that was happening and he got it right and he became prime minister and lead the country and help lead the west. to its victory, because people turned to him and said: I guess you really are the only person here who saw what was happening. But you do have this world of people who think that The dishonor is ours, in other words where choosing dishonor, because we- our dishonourable and at aims right.
Left and the right, have different definitions of why we are dishonourable, question is: Who will stand up for America being honourable and right The leader of the public in Party Donald Trump does not believe. America's honourable it's only honourable conditionally, because it led him. You know sneak into the presidency's Ruth means of the electoral college, trick that then night him the presidency a second time, but his history these about America are entirely conditional bought. left beliefs about America entirely conditional member Michelle Obama said she was proud of America for the first time in her life only because her husband was doing well in the primaries facts, the only reason to be proud of America. You know thanks very much for revealing how you feel about this country, as well as the person who is gonna, be you know its first lady. why the dishonourable caucus has now become.
Plurality of the American cultural conversation that new it's just, it's a new Everybody was tired of Vietnam by nineteen. Seventy five everybody was tired, the world of people who were saying we need to stay there and win was now existence, it wasn't that people said we needed stay there and when it was that it was You know it would be dishonourable to leave and let the let the Vienna his fall, but that the south it is small, but that wasn't really that conversation could no longer be so port eighty in the public discussion, but consequences in the three or four years that followed. It meant that we had a decade of popular culture in which we ran through scenarios in which the unite They went back to Vietnam and won the war that it had lost Rambo,
common valor going back Saving the peel doubles the revision of popular history in popular culture that spoke to what we would now think of, as the trump older, the Reagan Democrat of American veteran. All of that those guys this was very powerful and it was a red dawn and things when you say all Reagan was a militaristic, militarized. The country You didn't re militarized, the country the country looked and saw what the consequences were of that policy in them nineteen seventies and reared revulsion and horror and discussed, and we're talking at a time frame. This is why people are things is worse than sites like We knew Saigon was coming, it's looked worse, then we can ever possibly know. We did not know that this was coming. I mean I didn't. We knew that it was going to collapse. we are seeing now we didn't know was coming. It looks
worse than Saigon, people running down runways, fixing planes climbing into we'll put. You know a fallen from the sky being being chopped up. in the air. Simply escaped the horror that that was that was befallen them, that's new. That was, and that a new thing those who say we should get the Jake seldom press conference because they lack of of the press holding accountable, Abiden policy planner for the fact that you they had to revise their assessment. They said ninety days till till couple fell and they had what seventy two hours. I mean the idea that that the huge huge and competence on display over the last few days in terms of what they thought, what happened and what did That needs to be constantly examined and re examine, not just by Congress, but our media needs to be on that for much longer than has so far signalling it will be, it will be, but who knows until this community isn't getting so much ass, covering right now in leading
the press. What and who knows what they knew, whether policymakers noon, we didn't. I wouldn't trust that an intelligent sources tell us how interested, but are also The way it doesn't matter what they said. Button clearly would have done this, but everything said like it's. You Nicholas to say, do you tell just really tell told biden- everything was going to be fine. He wanted to do this. we began with the conclusion, and then he got some document that supporters conclusion. That was the document that he took it out. This conviction that intelligence reports are aren't the bill no they're, not the policymaker they're, not the thing that makes policy. You can't blame the intelligence report. because they were sitting round the table like it wouldn't have been hard for somebody say enough: we if we allowed and we leave bog rum, you know
the afghan and we don't provided the air support? The afghan army is gonna melt away or ask by where they didn't melt away. I should I want to apologize. I've been I've been saying that they melted aware that this you know that this fight, also the pattern in Iraq. That is actually not true. I mean, according to reports, Fifty thousand afghani military men have died this year a desperate effort to prevent the Taliban from taking think about that. That's fifty thousand people- that's that's the entire death toll american? That's all twelve years in Vienna, yeah, I think, that's a roughly the space between twenty fourteen, secondly, and combat operations in today. Are you sure, because that I dont believe it I'd, be willing to bet ninety percent that ok, thousand ok, but they do not. In any case they didn't melt away. They did not have melted away, they fight. I point the ancient ear closer support, Kandahar, defensive wrought? We were we.
Engaging abiding administration was compelled to wreak restart close airstrikes from having no basis, therefore, from strikes from the Persian Gulf We want to do that, and they were out in Afghan national Army was absolutely mounting the stirring defends. It wasn't really only of forty eight hours between I guess it was Saturday and Sunday as Friday night. Sunday morning when Capital felt it there really didn't see it a total collapse, but there was a valiant defence of two after that period right about the way, let's big to bite and levelling of the afghan people that in his speech I mean it's one thing to say the Donny, the President, like fled with a suitcase full of money. If you did Phyno he's now in the United Arab Emirates and then turns out, no one really knew where it was He's bad he's terrible the afghan people- did not do anything to deserve this date was not the afghan people who stand up to the Taliban. That's not out works, you don't say people out and say you know with milk
it's their fault that day that the afghan people? What is what is it? The afghan people didn't do exactly and he just serve alighted- the distinction between a leader that he lost confidence in and was mad at and the entire nation that that leader Latin and fail, just as he is failing the United States and Canada talking about the exchequer, you heard me, talk about it, Day after day with that I'm a variable lumber support, always always best in class. Credible, responsive, low back support, and now it's got that patent pending Ella MAX temperature regulation system, the chair built into the chair. If you feel a bit warm riddles, ITALY consented to cooling. If the area Fishing is too high consented to heating fuel stressed turn on elements, bazaars therapy and relax. It's all built into the chair. Imagine regulating your body temperature in getting the size therapy. Well.
working, you won't believe the difference until you feel it for yourself, never a better time to do that. Old, no name office chair go to Exchequer commentary, Doc come now letter acts were chair, commentary, dotcom or call a one aid for or for Exchequer zero, robots off your order. Extra has earned a guarantee of complete comforted. Could finance approaches for those three dollars a month go to exchequer commentary. Dotcom now in use coat ex wheels for free ex will blame castors Exchequer commentary dot com ape up, I want to pay one last thing, which is that Stephen Miller, you know trumps immigration Factotum one of those. People who say we're getting a flood of evil after hands of something Now what is it he said dense ass centre for Nebraska Pursuer setting itself up as trumps chief critic. In the report
can party and user like got concussed by the Trump wave back and spent the Trump years trying to get his sea legs into what what it was he could say I could not say Ben SAS said yesterday, I dont give basically a shit. What Stephen Miller has to say about anything: bring this up only to say. Maybe knows right now in some other areas. May This is where you see the by four occasion, or at least ground, on which a certain type of american politician can stand to say, bye. Disgusted me he's dead. He's doing things that are destroying the country's credibility and its future? And it's you can my coldness and all of that, but you cannot these people were vase. They laid the groundwork for everything that is going on here. They instead
fiscal discipline and they they started this feckless process that is leading to this catastrophic situation with our foreign policy. What what prospects you see for that as you as you share with me, this pessimism about whether or not the Americas Stinks argument is gaining purchase everywhere well by the ILO, and I remain concerned because, primarily I think the issue is you you can. This is obviously not where I stand. can look what's going on in Afghanistan and primarily blame to parties to groups the Democrats, obviously because this is this- is done under Biden and if you, what, if you are a mega type,
the wrong type of Republican. So in a sense, what's happening now, almost cars out. This tailor made space for Trump and his type of arguments. It see you you can look at what is happening now in dishonestly and say well. This is, this is a combination of NEO cons and NEO. Liberals destroying us want once again and an end. This is this: is the exact kind of. dishonest argument that that that I fear will will gain traction. Sorry, ok! Well, when the crushing veracity got that certain hurts the commentary dot org. That's this question were also the audit aid could be modeling it for you right now. On the basis of that answer, maybe
get a shot at him and that's easier. If you buy, it will send a dude sweatshirt russian veracity will be tomorrow for aid didn't, jump outwards, kids camel burn,
Transcript generated on 2021-08-19.