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they delivery and shipping go to total wine dot com to check out options available in your area, step into a wonderland of wine, spirits and beer in store or online at total wine dotcom, everyone wants to keep their home and family, see whether it's from a break in a fire flooding or a medical emergency. Simply safe home security delivers award, winning twenty four seven protection right now my listeners get a free home security camera when you purchase a simply safe system at simply safe dot com, slash crime, junkie, you also get a sixty day risk free trial, so there's nothing to lose visit. Some safe dot com, slash crime, junkie for your free security camera. Today, that's simply safe dot com, slash crime, Genji, high crime, junkies, I'm Ashley flowers and I'm Brett.

and whose new fly logo is that I think it is. I know today is a super special day, because today December eighteen, two thousand twenty crime junkie officially turns three years all weird used in the past three years. We have been able to do so this has become way bigger. Then we could have ever a matter that it's all, thanks to you guys here, whether you join the fan, club or bought marriage, or even just by listening Door episode in the odds you're, giving us the ability to sport causes that are important to us, because if you guys, we have been able to tell if you can believe that six hundred thirty stories heard five hundred million tying the goal to educate and advocate- and I know

You guys are on board at nice because, together we have all been able to give over six hundred forty three thousand Dollars to charitable organizations and clothes. My my I can't I almost can't even comprehend that this is just the beginning. You guys I mean I've been spending a lot of time in twenty twenty actually working to establish a nonprofit that will fund dna sting in coal cases and provide resources to family members advocating for justice, and none of this could have been done without each and every one of you,

And I could literally cry you guys, I'm so proud of all of you. I am so proud of the whole body of czech team, like we have done an awful lot together, like as a way more than Brit, like we ever imagined was possible, and I truly believe that this is just the beginning, and I guess I know that we are all gonna make an even bigger impact over the next year or years to calm, yeah and all that is to say this. Is more than we ever thought it would be, and we want to reflect all that we have done together with a brand new look now you to worry. It is a new look, but we will still be the same podcast. You know and love will still be telling the same true crime stories every single Monday, just like we always have an, were also share

actors, as you guys, like a desktop and phone background, and we even have social media stickers and guess now you could find all those on our website at crime. Donkey podcast dotcom yeah will linked to them in the show notes as well and is not just a new look today. We actually have something for you guys, a little present of sorts, something totally different eyes away to say thank you for everything that you ve helped us accomplish. So as we have been researching for the past three years. For all these different any said every once in a while, we come across these really. Weird bizarre, like crime related history, facts right, Bre, yeah an end, leaving only fit into any episode arc at all like I think that we call each other about, and we like, oh, my God did you know I always want to Know- and I know that our listeners are just like us, so buckle up because we had some bizarre crying history. To tell you about

ok so Brit the first one I have for you. So you know how sometimes, when you're scrolling, unlike Pinterest her into grammar whatever you come across this like did you know post that may or may not be total bs, so I get sucked into them every single time. I guess so. I saw this one the other day about an invention from the late nineteenth twenties, and it sounded so banana that I just had to google it and it actually turned out to be real, and I am thinking of this thing as the crime skeleton ever since I learned about it and honestly, I'm kind of obsessed with this whole idea and how it got started so backing. In twenty seven this woman out, an open California named Helene. Adelaide shall be came up with this idea to not only get criminals to confess, but also to record their compassion, so they couldn't trying recant later, which on,

surface, sounds normal enough rate. Will any kind of seed happen like in a lot of different cases? We have audio from confessions, audio from interrogations, even video, sometimes yeah. Not this way so Helene invention is this booth type thing that is split into two, like think of one of those that you would see in churches that people go to confess be police officer. Doing the interrogation sits in one side were the suspect, goes in the other, but in Little booth with the suspect is a megaphone hit can rise and stuff. the ten, a real human skeleton pocket. You had me until skeleton, yet so, basically, the whole plan here was to make the suspect being that they are trapped in

sickly, a haunted booth with a ghost and since mysticism was really big at a time like we're done, you say, answers and stuff you kind of sea, maybe where she's coming, but look why this idea came to her at this time now. Just stay with me because I want to read you some of this teachers from how leans patent application, because statutory filed a patent This thing I mean get a car. I understand that the patent got accrue do so. According to her specifications, the boot has to have a special lighting set up on the ceiling and floor has to quote, produce the appearance of an operation having a translucent outer or Ashraf body. also quote: diaphanous veiling so wishes you liked is thin gauzy fabric, like really beheld the creepy.

whose spirit. So it's like a very, very tiny, haunted house like extra haunted, because the skeleton is actually also supposed to have red lights in the eye. Sockets, a bore, a quote, and natural and ghastly glow. Ok, at this point, I feel run the pirates caribbean right. It does make locally and I'm gonna. Take you all the way to the right, because this is my absolute failure, part the skeleton actually blinks. So can you imagine being stuffed in a booth with this thing? That's like have Holloway decoration, half terminator all, while the police officer on the other side. There actually controlling the skeletons movements in making it talk. That's megaphone sport with legal, copper. Oh yes, it's not even like they're just trying to spook you I mean it is like a whole operation. The carriage he almost article in ATLAS Obscura. It doesn't sound like how leans invention was ever built. Sadly like this was just the patent, unlike her big vision and

I think someone needs to take this thing and build. It bore at least four hollow. We like put Reprover super, haunted house or something and you're, there's always a weird facts about it. Like the back of the skull was supposed to be removed, that police could store the recording equipment in their like bats, are the recording device would be which is like a you couldn't think nowhere else to put a well, I mean it's a skeleton. There's like nothing like the web page. You can see through the sculls like the only place. You can kind of hide it in a skeleton like. I just want to know how she came up with this idea, because she never patented anything else. There is it much out there about her life, so we don't even know where this interest came out with diamond. Like Helene was like a detective was I can't get people taken back very like Weedin? She has no like history that we now have a wing of you know in front

in interrogation and who are in law enforcement. You bet, my only believe is she probably had to Abed dislike of very early crimes. This episode was made possible by select lines. We into a new place this year, lots of big windows, lots of natural light, which was a huge change from our old place. Bite window coverings can get her eyes, see now the cat, Is there not as pricey when you can shop online, but you see shopping light, always maybe nerve. It's like you, do get wave enterprises, but I'm buying something. That's gonna be like a huge focal point in my home. I want to see it. I want to touch on one like hold it up to my walls, though the match the paint electric walk, the light. So in the past I avoided shopping for blinds online, but select blinds has changed all with that. You can get

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Ok actually have you ever heard of four analogy like heard the word: yes, can what it means now? Ok, so its kind where I was when I can stumbled into this and so mind, boggling to research. I actually had to bring it up when you brought up this episode so according to the sceptics dictionary for, is a study of the structure of a person's skull to determine a person's character and mental capacity okay. So I definitely no, why would have heard of it like? I know that has come up before, but I still don't know the ins and outs right so basically, like your skull, shape, contributes to who you are your personality or your intelligence, and it was developed on this theory by a german doctoring, Franz Josef Gall who decided that the brain had like multiple different organs. or faculties, which obviously has a million faculties but specifically organs, and the strength or size of those organs.

Basically determined who you are and what you're like an here in his theory. Back in seventeen. Ninety six, though, it's like ancient but not the only one to use a sort of thinking when it comes to how people become the way they are, in fact, based on my research, the number of organs that are supposedly in a human brain, even differ between what Sir and ass. You studied this practice like agree with, some claim that humans had almost forty different quote: brain organs: ok, yeah, you know the brain is single. organ then have this multiple other organs inside what guy signs at heart. The idea is considering these brain organs as almost personality trait muscles, if your hope or friendship, green organ, which use of lot grow and then physically altered.

shape of your skull. Like almost the same way, we think about bicep altered shape of an arm. After sticking with like a new arm, work out we're so it's thing with quote good personal, organs to grow, but it works with mega personally trades in this same way so if you utilised your destructiveness brain or end, then it will grow and based. In the shape of your skull of for knowledge, This could, in theory, determine that you obviously a criminal because brain organs, they don't lie obvious all of this is a total pseudoscience that isn't based on anything. yeah, but something that I found really interesting about. The practice of knowledge was how it was these new, as when I first started reading up on, I immediately thought of how it's basically, an old tool that was used. Profile people who looked bad, but

I was really interested to learn that actually for knowledge, it was used in more of a real way so under the belief system of for you could basically do physical therapy for your brain organs, starving out the bad bring organs like destructiveness and strength, and the good bring organs like benevolence and basically cure a person from being criminal. Just like you would go to the gym to get fed his weight for better mental Health had that work out for them. In theory, it's not a terrible plan or idea, but again the execution of it is not great so at that point I am deep in the rabbit hole of scholarship and that me too shows array lombroso go on so this guy is considered the italian Father of Criminology, which what a title can save the guy,

the eighteen somebody's he began to blend? These elements are chronology with another practice called physiognomy, which is the study of personality based on facial features and Can I tell you, write a front. This was not used as kindly of the practice of finality alone when it can. to practice at Oh boy, rehabilitation was not really on the table lombroso was pretty ends the idea that some people were just born criminals. They were lower in the evolutionary phase. The non criminals were, and he believed. but that basically determines who you were based on, how a person looked and according to his the criminal man Lombroso, believed that quote. Nearly all criminals have jug ears thick hair, a thin. pronounced, sinuses protrude chance and broad cheek bones which, like as our I like half of those that we have submitted, also to be clear leg

woman, I dont have a full beard, but so like I'll, never be a criminal like it's not like you like, also like it's just that the right and an irritating law enforcement would actually consult with Lombroso furiously even claimed he had successfully picked out. A sex offender from a lineup based on its future is based solely on the offenders appearance, which he ok and believe me. I that all of this sounds not only cuckoo bananas, but the practice of both for knowledge. An physiognomy were wildly racist and anti semitic in their very nature like, even though the rebels fifthly, debunked as legitimate ways to measure the guilt or innocence or put a predetermined qualities of a human, back in the nineteenth century. We also see elements of both these practices. Canopy, up here and there in true crime conversations like think about ever

his favorite, he didn't even look like a monster monster, TED Bundy, like pair he looked innocent. He had a baby face. He looked Heine or on the other end of the spectrum, are their facial features on a person that you feel doubt by ETA store it's it's kind of the mentoring version at an even terms like highbrow. Growl thick headed the all stand. From these ideologies and obviously, but these two, practices were pretty influential though, obviously not super healthy to the evolution of criminal, apology. But it is Lamar so actually started a museum devoted to his work in this field, and you can visit His entire collection of skulls. diagrams and wait for it. Even his own preserve

and had very on higher for his study at the Museum of Criminal Anthropology in Turin, ITALY, which is now like all my topless the place, to go. Oh yeah yeah, like obviously this is all bananas and bs and lead to a time terrible stuff, but I do know there might be something to like I think I groom by crime, junkie, brain muscle and look at it again. Yet little game donkey. Brain organs are growing to devise their thriving ma am. Two. I came across this entire school of research into the severed heads of criminals like the whole resources. Basically, whether or not these heads or actually dead, or are these still able to feel thing,

I got a sub he's over kind of so, unlike the skull thing called the right, so decapitation has been a thing for centuries and there have been a ton of reports about heads still doing things according to Housetop works people in the UK claim they saw Anne Boleyn and King Charles the first head. Trying to hawk after they got cut off. So I've totally heard about invalid yeah. So there's w precedent for this, but the idea didn't really get alot of traction until the french revolution. and let me tell you things got we're button. when you think of the french Revolution, we think of the reign of terror and the guillotine right. So in one thousand, seven hundred and ninety three, this young woman named Charlotte Corday, is sentenced to die by the guillotine and afterwards,

executioner lifted up her head as part of this whole like pageantry of aid, because these are big public events so may re live supper had to show the crowd and he, Actually slabs her face no bad in its own, isn't weird and great obviously, but was a common thing at the time, except this time. The crowd sees Charlotte Cheeks flushed, which India, We shouldn't be able to do because there's no blood from a heart coming to its right, and it's not just the one that got slap like you could think. Like maybe there's a little, I don't even know what you're thinking but like both cheeks are flushing, not only that but according to Richard Sacks book, an underground education. The look on her face peace, even changes, some, I witness who say her lip curled in disgust, basically like how dear you

what kind of LE click reacting to the situation now this takes up a big fuss writer. because the guillotine was supposed to be. This really humane way of executing people like net was, was black, sophisticated, quick and easy pain, less cordon quo right, they would die right away. There is no suffering by now, women with this, if Charlotte, could somehow still have a physical reaction afterwards, then didn't that undermine the whole point, though This german scientists named as T summary who is super against the guillotine, gets involved and he starts pointing to evidence or boredom quote evidence about severed heads still gnashing their teeth and things like that after decapitation, he claims that you. Ass. The head do feel things, especially what he calls and after pain in the net which mean ok, yeah like outside of everything we know about modern science there. My

be like some logic here right, but then about a century later in France, in, like the Lee eighteen seventies, science decide to start experimenting, and this is where things get really bizarre suing. Eighty seventy nine after a convicted rapist and necrophilia is guillotine. The The commissioner hands his head over to a group of doctors and according to an underground education. This is what they do to it. There yeah I'll write in its ears, they pincher they give it ammonia and smelling salts and they hold a lick candle up to it. Balls all trying to get some kind of reaction out of this severed hat. I mean I'm imagine doing this and getting seem reaction of like a watermelon of just nothing. Exactly will end none of this works, but when they shock the head with electricity, the eyelids move and the t start chattering, which you're feeling an inanimate objects with energy

lectures and now they also shocked the headless body and apparently the spasms made the dead man's fingers grab onto one of the research or his we're just like reading figures, Breakin think I'll, never get. This is such an aside, but my big great teachers, like has been like worked at work or something something very bizarre and I'll. Never forget him tell me a story, but how dead bodies do Halleck spasms or something may, and how he's I alone in the recent working of this body, and it just like straight up six, and I was like no none other. Does I feel about this abuse fingers grabbed onto me I'll be done now. all. This is weird enough, but a year after that, this is one eighty. The research gets again. If I can say even more bizarre, oh god, another french doktor gets a three hour old separate, had this time from a convicted murderers and decides to pump dogs blood. Into the head what now run

he reported that the lips and the eyelids moved for two whole seconds, and he takes this somehow as proof that the brain was thinking during those two seconds. Question I don't you to answer Does he getting this dog blood, I like to think very humanely, and it's just like he's just withdrawing a little makes you don't need a lot for a head like That's what I hope it's like! A red cross, but for but you ve got it gets so. The next research that happens is in nineteen o five, yet another french doctor and or the french or success of this of all people. But another friend doktor manages to get a freshly deities had which Oh, I didn't even know the Gue team is still being used in nineteen o four had it, but I guess he was kind of way right yeah. He claims that when he shouted at the heads face, which ok Camper, that the head actually looked at him, he says quote: I

not then dealing with the sort of vague dull look without any expression, but had been observed any day, In dying people, to whom one speaks, I was dealing with on denied We live in ice, which were looking at me. End quote according to Mark Hodges article in the Sun newspaper of french governments. Study in the nineteen fifty is concludes that debt by key in teen is an instant heinous. Now the debate about exactly how long the brain survives after decapitation is even to this day, still ongoing. Tidies Epsom me possible with trust. I live in a hot size household, even my daughter, who is only to insist on a specific hearts ass when choosing her tacos a different

that's what you said in your prize and most recently, a third hots us poorer, scrambled eggs are fridge, is literally full of hot dogs. But let me tell you that not every hot ass is equal. That's for sure, because I have found the true l of the ball, the aldermen hot sauce, and it is true that too Are you asked of us, as in then testing its way? More? That's all It is a show up our when my truck sausage arrived. My brother in law was actually at our house and one the prestige gift, ready packaging right out of shipping box was so cautiously Matt Black and goal foiled that my brother in law thought it was proof yet again it's a luxury huts eyes and never to weaken. They sat down, opened every bottle and did a little taste us and oh Angie, from the velvety smooth texture of slavery and of truffle, the brilliant Chiquita Chile's

just dash of sweetness from a goblin after it is truly no question about how trust has made it and over his favorite things, as for two years in a row, see for yourself. Why truck is the biggest hearts ass? An interim tik Tok get ten set off site wide when you use promo code crime junkie at trough, dotcom, that's ten percent off everything, including the White Trust, VIP Box, the Trough variety tat. nothing just in time for the holidays, to shop at trap that common, t r. U ask us as invent aztec dot com, a news, promo code, crime, junkie,. Ok, so my last topic is hobble. humiliation, which I periods I like regularly when I was like seven, I was getting an award at the girl scouts. My sister pants me so like say here

so I think a lot of has been glad it probably lie and when you think of it as a form of punishment, its usual like the scarlet letter or standing in like stocks in the town square and total all the villagers throw rotten food at you, but we also see happening lethal ways going back for centuries, public executions, whether or not by being headed, like you talked about earlier, or even stoning and crucifixion. Humiliation, has existed as a punishment basically forever and I I do find it s a really interesting concept of punishment, especially in a non lethal ways, the ones you live thrill, stocks or crime badges like the scarlet letter, because its only a form of punishment that is endured by the offender, but Humiliation should also be creating a sense of like I'll, never offend again saying never had to go through this again, but there Also, this form of like corporate fear, that's being

still by the onlookers, who are yes, sometimes participating in the humiliating thing. The offender is being tortured with there also being shown. What can happen to them so an official administering this kind of punishment. Your kind you getting too for the price of what your reprimand- defender and threatening the like with a similar fate and lake but this has been going on for centuries in hundreds of cultures and countries, and we do not have time for me to start listing all the ways people have found to humiliate each other through the years, but I think it comes to exactly. made things the worst for the offenders. It has to be like no contest the middle ages. Ok, why well there's a little device called a shame, ask a shame mass and it's pretty much Lastly, what it sounds like but, they came in varieties, which I thought was a fund addition. So there

this kind of metal, they kind of like a small, thick bird cage, and would literally get locked on to your head and face, and these were all designed with different crimes in mind. So I was, on ancient origins how for lazy people the mask would be designed to look like a cow or maybe a pig, Four gluttony caught eavesdropping, perhaps you'd get a mask designed to look like a rabbit with those big long ears, and they even just stick with animals. There is also like exaggerated, he'll features like long tongues are knows, is for those can lying, and I couldn't seems silly by publicly in punish was one thing, but wearing the visit, embodiment of your crime just continues to Add to that humiliation. How long did people have to wear it for wheelchairs? you weren't just wearing them ass for a couple of hours or days or whatever

You can hide in your house with this heavy iron bird cage on your head, and you are paraded down the streets. This is like I'm getting there. Very game of thrones by doing watch game of thrones, but lest he should that didn't like walking, make they ve down ringing the bell. Shame exactly do you think you're done after that walk some masks even had little bells on top for the duration of the time you had to wear at all, everyone knew it drew attention. Everyone knew when you were nearby and the world, thing that I saw more than anything when I was researching public humiliation as a punishment. Firstly, these chain masks were kind of how sexist and sergeant mystic they were. In fact, this house. There was a specific addition to some shame, masks called the schools bright on what is so. It was designed to punish a nagging wife or cos,

Oh, I grew up writing or says I had no problem, imagining this tortured advice, but its basis, we just like the mask a heavy cage or on your head, but the scholars bridle would be inside of it and had a bit so like a piece of metal that was inserted to a woman's mouth. To kind of press on the woman's taught, whether down somewhere behind her thought him t pushing. Her tongue down or even under her hung pushing the tongue up against the roof of her mouth, and these bits would obviously prevent women from speaking eating linking since her mouth was constantly sort of being pride or propped open, shooting ruling allow as well and get this if that did not Make you flip a table now some of the bits even had spikes on how it here into the woman's tongue and

dear. She tell her husband to pick up his underwear off the floor. Close to the hamper, but never in it. I dont understand. holy hack twenty twenty years in a great year, but guy the least is not the middle ages truly and according to bustle. In the sixteenth and seventeenth century, there was another form of punishment, usually reserved just for women called the ducking storm. What's that the women question would be tight, it is little chair or stool, but that's stool, was attached to a super, long pull. That would- stand, the woman over a body of water like a lake or a river, and She would just get dunked in over and over and over again and the same article that I was reading about. She masks from an ancient organs. They also reference this, but in a way that was used for quarrelsome married couples so again back to the underwear so closer they hamper instead just the woman being tied the store. The couple would be tied together back to back

I don't want the water repeatedly, so I guess, like gay equality, I've noticed how was the hope light languages in acute Duncan. You till you figure out a like work. It out be friends, I order, so I thought I don't know how you can fix a couple of being quarrelsome and then punish them out what a weird form of marriage counselor early and like marriage counselling meets survivor. So what's using is like the amazing that Africa and I could talk of this for hours and I definitely only scratch the surface on public humiliation as a bizarre one of punishment drop time, but I do want to mention one last, one that I can still see much like the sea masks. There was a device called the loot of shame that means so it was this large flute. Piece of metal with a neck shackle at the top?

a row of finger clamps all along the front of this flu assent but, like a giant flew like it was dropped. MAC and would go down like cheer wasted No further, then fingers we clamped into place in the finger clamps on top of it and my favorite part of this bizarre torture, shaman device is what it was used for when it came to convictions. Ok, it was used for bad musicians of what you said it. So I give you dislike real crabby and no one like during their like. You need to learn a lesson. You're bad music wasn't humiliation enough for you here is, flute of shame honestly, like I got not too late to have a personal story for every crime when we tell, but I would have had to flee where the food of shame, when I was in fifth grade band that are like private middle school. Obviously, my teacher is not very good cuz. I

not me saxophone, just fine. Thank you very much when she gave up on me because I got through them into higher class. With my flew, I didn't play a single note. I would just like coming spit great. Everyone sounds awful, but I would just blow and move I figure where a lot of shame for you actually flower is his aim to say.

Good. crime junkie is an audio chuck production. So what do you think Chuck do oh