During spring break of 1975, Sheila & Kate Lyon went missing from a shopping center near their home and for almost 40 years no one knew what happened to them. Over the years horrible men would come into focus as suspects. Men who took the lives of 10-year-old Amanda Ray, 5-year-old Neely Smith, and 15-year-old Kathy Beatty. But it wasn't until a cold case investigator came across a single old report from 1975 (a report that had been there all along) that the case would finally be solved and Mr. & Mrs. Lyon would finally have answers about what happened to their daughters.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Step up with boost mobile and stream. All the crimes of the park ass, you want with unlimited data and their super reliable superfast network plus stay connected to your family from almost anywhere switch to boost bubble today includes mobile, optimize dreaming users using more than thirty five gigs of data
during buildings, I got maybe deep prioritize during times of network congestion offers and coverage not available everywhere visit boost mobile dot com or retailer near you for full details. High crime, junkies, I'm your host Ashley Flower,
and I m bread, and today's story is a crazy one about an unsolved case that took over forty years to bring closure to, and it takes you really
inside the investigation to show you how a couple of tenacious investigators found the truth amongst year,
of lies in how they ended up capturing
Lloyd, Lee Welsh for the murder of Kate and Sheila Lion, but listen close, because this story opens the door to other cases, cases that have very specific things.
We can do to help when, in March of nineteen seventy five Kate Lion was ten years old and her sister she'll was twelve
He lived with their parents and older brother J in Maryland suburb outside of Washington D C, where their father worked
the well known radio host March. Twenty fifth was a Tuesday, but the girls were on spring break
and like any young kid on Spring break, the last thing you want to do is just stay home. So that afternoon the girls planned a trip to weaken Plaza, which was a.
Shopping mall just about a half a mile from their house. They could
they're on their own, and you know they took a couple bucks at them. They were going to eat lunch at this restaurant there and they left the house. Some time
eleven or twelve o clock, and they promised there mom they'd be home. By, for now they were gone
for lunch. But we implausible was like the hub of the town. It was likely that they would see friends likely they would hang out. You know just just do it. You look on cross till late for clock rolled around then for thirty, five o clock and the girls still weren't back home by seven. Their parents are calling the police to report the missing. No one wanted to believe the worse. Perhaps maybe they just like, ran off with friends. Even their parents couldn't bring themselves to say the worst out loud the next morning there dad used his wildly popular
YO show as a platform asking for someone to bring the girls home and he honestly tries to be kind of light. Hearted about it saying you know. This is probably all huge
center standing, we're all gonna feel so silly. I'm sure the girls told us that they were going to go to her friends house, but we ve forgotten. So if they're at
house where you know where they are. Please send them home to us, but the girls don't come home as more time passes and their hearts sink. Suspicion is placed on the girls dad not for any real reason other than statistics. Most of the time something happens, a children's done by someone close, but it doesn't take long to rule him out when they start
Look outside of the home police go to the mall. Were the girls had been to gather information and to get witness statements now they find a
boy there, a kid who actually lived in the neighborhood and who knew the girls who said that he saw them that day they were at the mall right outside of the restaurant that they said they were going to go to for lunch, and we were talking to an older man. He told police that the man was white. Maybe, like fifty
Sixty and I don't know how accurate that is like when you're super young people contenders everybody's super old yeah.
People. Contenders theme allow older, but he said this guy was fifty or sixty may be six feet tall and he's wearing a brown suit and carrying a brief case now. The interesting part is that inside that brief case, he said, was a tape recorder,
and when he saw the girls, they were talking into a microphone that the man was holding. The boy said that there were other kids around to alter
the into that microphone, but he didn't go up to them or engage with the older man himself. Now police feel that this is a really hot
again, because this boy knew the girls he said he saw them. They have to find out who this man is and why he was talking to them. So they asked the boy to sit down with a detective whose sketch artists and make a composite sketch finding this man, who was last seen talking with them, would be. The police is best chance at finding the girls sobered, I'm in a send you, the sketch that ended up coming out of this ok, so
looks pretty normal. He looks well groomed clean Shaven probably takes care of himself not like creepy or sketchy looking at all right and something interesting happens when they release this sketch to the media other,
People came forward and said that they had seen the same man talking to other kids
other malls all over the area. Never stop.
Get a little more detail. The one report said that the man would approach kids and ask them to record and
stirring machine message, which makes no sense.
To me yeah and invest eaters followed. This could have made
been a ruse like the perfect routes,
an older man and of doktor to engage with young kids and get them to like let their guard down now. At the same time, please
a running down who they're calling tape recorder, man,
other young girl comes forward. Who said that she was in the mall that day and she noticed a weird creepy guy. Is it tape recorder? I know so. This guy was much younger, still white, but she said that he was in his late
means may be early twenties and she said that
had long brown hair with a moustache and his face was scarred from acne. Now another detective was put with this girl as well to make a sketch and hears which she came up with. This guy looks completely
We different, like you, said long, hair he's, gotta, mustache, he's definitely younger. Was she
saying that this was the same guy, or is this just some completely new dude? No, this is
completely new. Do she didn't have a story about seeing the girls with this guy? Her story was completely different and actually didn't include the girls at all. She just came.
Word and said that she and her friends were
you're around them all the same day, and this guy this
he had made a sketch of who again long Brown, hair, mustache, totally different, had kind of business
following them around and staring
them nonstop I mean so bad to the point.
It was so obvious, one of the girls was like hey. If you take a picture it'll, alas, Onrush actually confronted him now, the girl did say something interesting.
She said that the man seemed to be overly focused on girls with blonde hair and that's
She wasn't super worried herself because she had brown hair, and this is interesting because both lion sisters were blonde
However, there wasn't any anyone else who had come forward to say that they saw this man or that the girls had interaction with this man and it didn't really
fit in with all of the other report about this tape. Recorder man, so the police decide that this is probably just a fluke and it would cause more confusion than anything if the sketch was released
public, so they decided to file it away in their reports? Efforts continue to try and find tape, recorder, man,
and, more importantly, to try and find the girls. Over the coming weeks, massive searches were conducted
in the surrounding area like abandoned houses, sewers
got like a hundred and twenty two national guards men involved in search of the wooded areas near them all, and not a single shred of evidence connected to the girl surfaced over that time. It wasn't until the girls had been missing for almost two weeks that someone thought they spotted them
this person was driving in Virginia and when they came to a stop like they noticed the car next to them inside they said they saw
two young girls- that looked like Sheila and Kate, and they were bound
in Gand, when the driver, who
Really resemble tape. Recorder man saw the person in the vehicle had seen
and the girls. The driver says that this do just sped off like right through a red light. Now the driver was only able to get a partial license. Plate De M t dash six, but there were like two spaces that were missing and they couldn't see because the license plate had been bent. Know this citing was report
to the public and there was an army of C b radio users who spent the entire night. Looking for a baby colored station wagon, like the driver, had said with those beginning plate numbers, but nothing in
the coming of it other than like a media frenzy and eventually police themselves, would even question whether or not this was a credible, citing like ve seen in so many other cases. There were people who try to take advance,
of the lion family in their dark time. People call
and claiming to have the girl saying that they were looking for ransom money and there is even once
where a drop was arranged, but the MIA
never ended up showing up when the family said, you know, like we wanna actually talk to our girls are proof that you have them and that their ok, like this guy, ceased all communication and just disappeared. This case, as time went on baffled police, the family, the public, no one could figure out how to
little girls could go missing in the middle of a busy mall without anyone. Seeing a thing leads dried up
and the media reported on the case less and less and less.
Eventually only receiving a slight mention on the anniversary and Anna
Sherry after anniversary would pass and it seemed like the case was doomed to go cold until twelve years after the girls disappearance, when police would be confronted with an interesting suspect.
In nineteen eighty seven amending Fred Coffee was arrested in North Carolina. He had been connected to the abduction and murder of a ten year,
Girl named Amanda re Amanda.
Missing in nineteen: seventy nine, while playing outside of her home, just a block from where afraid lived, but free
wasn't on anyone's radar at the time police weren't able to link him to the murder until one thousand nine hundred and eighty six, he was convicted and sentenced to the death penalty, but the sentence was overturned twice actually and eventually he just got life which in North Carolina men that he would also have the option for
role once he was on polices radar for Amandas murder, police started linking him to more and more cases, some in North Carolina, but also in other states as well.
Some time in the nineteen eighties, a police task force was brought together and they were asked to look at unsolved cases involving chill
unlike along the EAST coast, and they get together and start comparing notes, and this Fred Coffee Guy like comes up alive
with the Lyon Sisters case, one of the unsolved cases they had was from July of nineteen. Seventy five, just a few months after the lion sisters disappeared, but just about three
half miles up the road. A fifteen year old girl named Cathy Baby had gone missing.
She left a note for her mother, the night of Thursday July twenty. She said that she was gonna, be out of friends house, but should be home by ten p m. Now her mom found this no one
came home at eleven. So Cathy was already late, but it was like poor.
Down rain that night in her mom thought. Maybe she was just like waiting for a ride home rather than walking homelike. She normally would so her mom decided to go to that. France has to pick her up
but when she arrived, Cathy, wasn't there. She wouldn't
until later that Cathy had never been there, but her friends were trying to cover for her all of them. And
driving around looking for her, but no one was able to find her that night. It wasn't until
next morning, when Cathy's older sister went to the local Kmart to look for her that she saw a horrible site. Her younger sister was laying in a ditch behind the store. She was almost on recognisable because of the depression in her skull where she had been so
verily beaten, though she was found alive by her sister. She eventually passed away after eleven days in the hospital due to her injuries like,
In addition to being beaten, it was found that copy had been sexually assaulted as well
for many years. Her case, like the lion case, went unsolved, hundreds
but were interviewed and there were suspects, but no one was ever arrested there
in the eighties. All of a sudden. There is this man, Fred Coffee who they are comparing cases too, and there were some odd details that stood out about Fred
He left the navy in nineteen seventy five and move to Montgomery County in March of nineteen seventy five, so that wasn't like four months before Cathy's motor right yep end. It was
same month that the lion girls went missing, Fred, who looked dangerously
like tape. Recorder, man had just started a new job at a place called vitriol labs and vitriol labs was just across the street from work. Cathy was found in the parking lot for Vitro labs, bordered the apartment, complex
Kathy lived and that's not even the most incriminating part when Cathy was found back in July of seventy five. The newspapers have reported on
case and when they reported on it accurately, they said that she had been found.
And alive now without,
explanation the very same day. This is published. Fred coffee left his
a new job, a job that he only been out for months without like saying a word
without giving notice nothing. Oh so he fled. I mean that's what it seems like so
this, put him on the radar in Cathy's case and in the same breath like
him on the radar for the Lion sister case. But there must have been a problem, and I dont know what that problem was exactly.
But they were never able to lean Kim definitively to either case and according to the justice for Amanda site, her mom claims that coffee is suspected in twelve murderers.
In five other states. Oh my god I mean, I know those guys like prolific, but as far as I can
Tell no additional charges have been filed. Now there is one particular case I could find
namely to in the news. It was a five year old, named Neely Smith, who went missing after playing outside of her apartment, complex just like Amanda, and this girl lived in the very same complex as Fred Coffee,
But there was a good news article from July, two thousand and fifteen saying that police working to compare his dna to the crime scene, evidence and nothing else. Yes, how many times have we seen? So we don't know if it's a match, I don't
If it wasn't a mad, if there was ever even tested exactly like, I dont know, if there are even still waiting- and we know how bonds and times these backlogs are, could they be? You said that he was going be ever parole eventually. Do you think they might be waiting to charge him till then,
maybe, but that seems really risky. Don't you think, like judge
him. Now, I'm in this guy, seventy about it.
You'd be up for parole for a fresh case. I mean he could very likely be dead. I mean yeah. I guess
I don't wanna Carolina law very while by maybe it's like a time served type that could be like if they
that. That law, where they charge him now, they would count time served. Maybe that's why they're not doing, but I honestly don't know I'm not familiar with North Carolina law. It just seems strange to me that they would do this article another be zero, follow yeah, but it could also be like I said earlier
the testing just isn't completed. I have no idea either about the backlog in North Carolina so now
and then Fred Coffee got connected to a lot of cases, but he hasn't been officially convicted of anything new,
in February of this year, two thousand and nineteen there was a news article stating that police were now re, evaluating and resubmitting key dna evidence in Cathy's case. But we don't know what that is
We don't know how long that will take again. The other articles frontiers in fifteen, trying to connect Fred Coffee to something who knows it.
Just started in February two thousand nineteen for Cathy Baby when that's gonna be done right, though it very well could be that in the coming months or years we find out that fraud has something to do with Cathy's murder, or we find out that all of his actions were just like very weird and strange coincidence is, and that
very possible because for a long time people thought the lion, sisters, disappearance and Cathy's cases were connected.
The more we learn about the lion case, the more we can be sure fried coffee. Wasn't the man responsible, because
It was a man by the name of re molest key that would break this case wide open decades later.
The name Raymond ASCII didn't mean anything right away when police first arrested him for the murder of his wife and son in nineteen, seventy seven but years would pass and informants from prison started. Coming
forward one by one saying that re was talking in prison, saying he knew something about
the two girls in Montgomery County who went missing a couple of years before he was arrested by
his own admission to police, he said he knew something and would be willing to talk in exchange for a more favourable prison sentence. Now, please try talking to him, try searching his place, but that never got any kind of real evidence on him. He ended a passing away in two thousand and four
so any chance of a cold case team. Getting anything real out of him directly would be tough, but man they kept. Coming back to him, because he looked so good for them
In case he lived in the area in nineteen. Seventy five, he looked so much like the composite sketch a tape recorder, man and, above all else he was in a Torres pedophile for years. All police had was this system
and about Rachel ASCII, this gut feeling that they knew he was their guy, but he had slipped through their fingers cold case too,
You came and went, and it wasn't until two thousand and thirteen that move one detail.
By sheer luck. Maybe
divine intervention came across a report
could Neil molest ski a report that would change absolutely everything about this case. This episode was made possible, by simply say, with home security. There are two ways you can go about: protecting her home, there's the traditional way where you wait weeks for a technician to do a messy installation that causes a small fortune or there's the other way
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am ROC had been assigned to the case. All these years later, he like many people before him thought Molest key was actually good, for he was the prime suspect, but he could never find that one thing to nail him on it, but one day he came back to the files- and there was this report just sitting on top now, heaping through all the files before but he'd. Never
in this one or never paid attention to somehow always glossed over it because it never seemed important, but here it was link right on top of this pile and to this day no one can ever explain
how it got there why it was brought out or who did it, but it was a polygraph interview,
with a mammal, maybe even more of a boy at the time named Lloyd, Lee Welsh. According to the transcript and the report, Summary Lloyd had approached a security guard a couple of weeks after the girls had gone missing and he told the guard that he had seen a man talking to the girls and he wanted to let's
one. No. Now this guard, of course, called the police right away and Lloyd was taken to an interview room, so his statement could be recorded. Loi told the officers that he was twenty two at the time and he'd gone to the mall, with his wife Helen, to look for a job that day. He said that he saw the
I was talking to an older man with gray hair, about six feet tall, who had a brown brief case now at the time that here
come forward, none of this was groundbreaking. All of that information had been released in newspapers and had all been connected to tape, recorder, man, so
I wasn't giving them anything. New Lloyd said that he watched the interaction between the girls and this man for about five to ten minutes. That seems like a really long time, like I don't just sit at the mall staring at someone. Unless something is wrong and if you're that concerned about it, why wait weeks to report at two right,
off and police or done they keep probing and Lloyd story goes on, and he says that him and his wife saw them
then the girls together again a little bit later and the man is like putting the girls into a car. This is when police ask him pretty much the same question you did like if all of this stood out so much like your window, watching them for five to ten minutes, because something is
the ordinary to you. Why are you just coming forward now and Lloyd says? Well, I was.
Sure then, and now that I've been seeing all this stuff on the news. I really wanted to help he does offer.
Nine new detail, though- and this is the detail that sticks out in the police report all these years later to the court case detective who found it. He says that the man talking to the girl
had a limp. Now should go back to nineteen seventy five. When the detective is taking this report, an inner viewing him, they decide to give him a polygraph about all of this information and unsurprisingly, he failed the only question he didn't fit.
I was on the point that he had been in the mall that day, everything else was a lie so back in seventy five. They just kind of file this away. It's just a fluke and the summary report had one big written word like at the top. That just said, lied
The officer at the time was kind of annoy like this guy's wasting their time. He some knucklehead, whose just trying to inject himself into the investigation, maybe wants to play the hero, or maybe he's even try,
click the reward money that was out there, because I got the time there was a big chunk of money, but he wasn't offering them anything new. For almost forty years that report just sat in the file and every cold case detective who worked on this, never gave it a second look, but again there it was sitting on top begging to be looked at and detective hammering saw something that pops out at him that limp Lloyd had said the man walked with a limp and sure it would have meant nothing to the detectives at the time, but with his specific suspect in mind
with rain lefty in focus. That did mean something because Ray had a limp, and that was new information that wasn't put out to the public back then, because again, the they weren't. Looking at re, this detective things wholly crap, like did. I just somehow stumble across the one guy who can put my suspect in the mall.
Like this. Is it were in a thirty plus years later and I actually might have a key witness. A team is assembled to go talk to Lloyd, like a team of Dave, Mark, Katy and care, and a great mix of detectives and from two thousand and thirteen to two thousand and seventeen. They would be the ones to see this through, but they had no idea what they were in for when they look
Lloyd? He was easy to find and when they find him, take it a little like crinkle between their eyebrows like this is interesting. He was in prison serving a thirty three year sentence for sexual
salt on a minor, so another pedophile yeah, and so they start to wonder. Maybe he knew less scheme more
then just seen him at the mall that day, but they'd have to talk to him to find out. He was in prison in Delaware, so they couldn't make him and
kind of deal like they couldn't light in his prison sentence or get him moved if he wanted it. So they decided to go in with a strategy that he had to flip on the last key because if he didn't maybe he'd go down for the crimes and they weren't one hundred percent blessing. Because, along with the old statement, something else was fat
remember that sketch that was made based off the girls statement in the mall who said that guy with the long hair was staring at her and her friends yeah the young guy with the mustache rights. So now,
the police are like looking Lloyd up before they go to talk to him check out Lloyd's picture next to that sketch. Well, it's the same guy very, very
clubs. So when they go to meet him there almost surprised at how much Lloyd like to talk and talk and talk and talk and hot
and they try to high like originally their play, and they want to hide why they were there. But one of the tactics like war
from Montgomery County and so right away, though they walk in and Lloyd.
You why they were there he's like? Oh you guys are here about those little girls and too
best eaters there, like. Oh, my god, is this visit and mission, and he says no like. I lived in Montgomery County. That was the biggest case if you come rolling in Heareth, Montgomery County sure, but that's it. I'm gonna think now Dave and a kind of being
lead investigator on this and becomes Buddy buddy with Lloyd Dave, says, listen
on your side. I want to make sure that you don't get mixed up in this the wrong way. So, let's start from the beginning, why did you come forward weeks after this happened all those years ago and Lloyd, says I'm just trying to help
in today's, like good will, if you still want to help, I would like you to. I think you can- and this is where the
Multiyear saga begins at First Louis denies all of that kind of
He denies being in them all. He denies are going into the police station. He says he just called them from a pay phone, but I mean I don't know
it doesn't realise that things are written down, are recorded or whatever, but Dave like confronts him with his written statement and the polygraph test and the transcript so Lloyd Story has to change
They show him a picture of Rainbow S key and he says yeah. I think that could be the guy that I saw that day. No, this is huge, Lloyd goes.
To tell them that he knew ML ascii. They would
ready to gather around the same crowd together and the investigators keep thinking like what are the
odds that two men who knew each other and shared the same perversions were, in the same all at the same time, but they weren't there. For the same reason, they kind of imply
this toy like Nina? Maybe you knew him? Did you go with him, but Lloyd story? I least in that
first interview was just that he saw molest key and he wasn't there with him, but over time the story keeps changing just a little bit at first, but eventually they realise that they are talking to a killer.
The first lie was where Lloyd and his girlfriend were now. Firstly,
Or in a car when they saw the girls get into the car with that guy, then they were getting onto a bus and eventually, like I mean these small details chain,
constantly in Lloyd's retelling of the story and it's hard to track all of his lies. Now I dont know how, like it didn't feel, like total bs to the invest
two years I probably would have been totally written him off he's wasting my time. But something told these investigators that there were something they are something worth fighting for, because a pattern would start to emerge when they talk to Lloyd, not over a single day, but over weeks and months
Lloyd would feed them hours of lies and be ass. Then, at the
the very end of their interview every single time. There would be a Purnell of truth.
And not even the whole truth, but the story would change just enough and there would be something that felt genuine. That Lloyd was saying, not a hunt.
Percent truth again like it was covered in lies, but it was the closest thing that they had always come to the truth and each time they would step closer and closer to reality. Over time he admitted that he was there with my and he helped him get the girls but swears. He didn't do anything
then molest key disappears from the story altogether and now it's Lloyd's uncle that actually took the girls and his uncle was
security guard somewhere else, and he said that he used this ruse to get them to go eventually Lloyd, added his cousin teddy to the mix. Now he says it was his uncle
his cousin and he just happened to be with them. Ok, maybe he helped get the girls into the car, but then they dropped
Lloyd off at an ice cream store. It had no idea what happened to them after that. You can see here
like more and more involved in the store. The thing about Lloyd, pointing fingers at his family is that they all seem to be really capable of something like this. The family had two big group,
that lived in one in this area and then another out in Virginia about five hours away, the entire family were pedophiles. They participated in incest, the younger kids,
had been molested by the older generations, and then the eventually the younger kids were taught that it's ok to experiment sexually with their siblings or their cousins. So,
in his family is looking more and more like they could be guilty of something. No Lloyd's uncle dig who's, the one that he pointed to as being at the mall that Dame being responsible for all this was a pedophile and Teddy, who he said was at the mall was,
used by his family and then later by a wealthy man who he lived with. Honestly, that's actually that a totally crazy story to because, even though
Had he confronted this older man after an eventual having counselling years and years later, the abuse with him starved but Teddy kept this man in his life, like part of the family and after TAT he got married and had kids. This guy starts molesting his kids, like it
a very wasted, perverse like saga,
really deep at night. I think we're we're getting closer and closer to the
These are looking at this thinking like, oh, my god, we ve gotten into something really deep annex. I think we're we're getting closer and closer to the truth. So the fact that these two dick and Teddy could have been involved seem plausible, but there are still problems with Lloyd story. For example, Teddy was
eleven at the time that the girls went missing and he had to broken arms.
I don't think I love your old, can kidnap a ten year old and a twelve year old, as is too broken arm right, unlike what I
thinking is like me, be if he was involved, maybe helped like lure them. Yet he was like the trap. You is there and make them feel comfortable or will ever yeah. They could go the kid their own age, but don't you think people but remember, seeing it
with two arms in Catholic, at them all one hundred percent rate. So, of course, this is a lie to but
Hurried in this lie is part of the truth.
Is original story about his cousin and his uncle when Lloyd was finally admitting that he might have had something to do with helping them get the girls. He said that he helped them by like asking the girls if they wanted to go party till I get them out to the car. I'm sorry, these girls were ten and twelve
think they were really into the party scene, but yeah yeah, listen! No one is saying that they buy this load of crap, but it's his story that he gets them to his uncles car and he's in the back with one girl.
His uncle and Teddy Europe in the front with another girl, and then he gets dropped off, but the moon
and more the detective keep pushing
again over months over the years he slipped and he talks about himself being in the front seat. He says stuff like we got them to the house, and the same pattern emerges.
At the end of every interview, there's a little bit more just a little bit. That leads to the truth. He says. Well, I came back to the house and saw a couple of girls in the basement.
Once I forgot about it, but I remember that they were naked and drugged up and they were having sex with then can be short was like those girls.
But is around the same time. I'm I'm sorry. Who else would it be right? But again even this doesn't feel like the whole truth.
Now, in their very very first interview when Dave asked him what he thought happened to the girls, if he had nothing to do with it, he said well, my opinion is that he killed them rate them and he probably burned- and this was something that always stuck out to the investigators, how specific burned than like, who
gases that, but it was no gas in between all of their interviews with Lloyd. They were also going
and doing some digging investigating into his family, trying to corroborate all of his stories, and they made it out his family's house, in virtue
and yet the one that was five hours away from them? All this is a house or his uncle Dick had lived when these
art interviewing the family who lived there are people in town. There was something that
everyone remembered from nineteen seventy five. Even all these years later, around the town.
I'm. Those girls went missing. There was a big fire on the family property, a fire that burnt for days and days and smoke, God awful
one family member said that Louise had a large duffel bag that wait about sixty to seventy pounds. That was stained with something dark now Lloyd said it was transmission oil because it looks kind of red and he threw it on the fire. A CSI team was brought in to examine the fire. Pets says over thirty years later, where they actually
like to find something I mean they're looking for any thing, and this effort isn't totally fruitless. They do find something they find a couple of bone fragments peace.
Of clothing or maybe cloth from that duffel bag and wire. That they said, was the same kind that could have been from a pair of classes that Sheila WAR, but unfortunately,
because you mentioned its thirty three thirty four years later
time and the elements had degraded. All of these things too much. Nothing could conclusively be linked back to the girls, but this was still enough to keep the investigators go.
Way to prove to them that they were on the right track and they kept listening to Lloyd and kept pulling the story out of him. They get closer and closer to the truth. Now, in the book that I read about this case, it was called the last stone by Mark Boden, the author said
What the police realized is that you couldn't listen to the stories that Lloyd would tell the web. He spun was messy. It made zero sense every time he opened his mouth. It was a completely different
that completely contradicted the one he just told you. But if you paid attention to the details, those details stayed the same, because those are the things that were ingrained in his brain, like I think I've. I've heard this in a lot
as other interviews with investigators or behaviour analysis. People like it's hard to
member a lie, but the things that you saw, the things that you and experience those stay, the same
an inwards pattern. He had these details at stayed the same, but he would always distanced himself from those details. It was someone else who he saw do this. It was someone else who is driving with someone else sitting next to the girl, like he's replacing himself in the story with someone else now, the part about the fire was the same.
Lloyd kept coming back to there was a fire. There was a fire, someone put a girl in the fire, at least that's what I heard I dont know. I wasn't there again. It always change change change, but they're always was a fire, and now they felt like they could back that up. There was also another part that existed in every story. A basement were Lloyd said. He saw those girls now again his details about this base
were chilling. He described the two rooms in vivid detail. He said you can only enter the basement from the backside of the house. It was over
an dingy. There was like a couch and a radio in one room, a mattress in the back room and as his store
he's go on and on over the years. It's his story that he
he had come in and seen the girls naked and dragged up there. He had come in and seen somebody assaulting the girls there. Eventually, as he elaborated on these stories, he told police that his uncle Dick had killed. Kate in that basement. He described a bloody scene where Dick dismember, her body- and it was in such detail that he even talked about how his
what could it fully swing the acts, because the ceiling was too low. Now, where this basement was changed all the time Dicks House, Teddy's friends house, but like the bonfire, the investigators were determined to find it day, went from place to place that Lloyd mention but struck out ever
each time he was just about to give up until he remembered one more place: Lloyd's dad's house, exactly where Lloyd had been living at the time of the disappearances. Thirty, something years later, the house had new occupants but Dave knocked on the door ass, the nice lady. If he could see the basement and she said sure, but you can only get to the basement from the outside when Dave opened up the door, all of the hairs on the back of his neck stood at attention. It was exactly what Lloyd had been describing four months. This episode is made possible by audible long before podcast, I relied on audible exclusively for entertainment,.
I've been a member since two thousand and seven and I still look forward to my credit every single month, because, with my credit, I get audio books. I get exclusive podcast and the best part is, if I don't like it or couldn't get into the narrator, you can exchange or credit to find something that you really love and the most recent audio book that
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Is life changing for everyone in your life that tells you you're paranoid after listening to our show, get them this book. Get yourself this book because, being a little paranoid being afraid is a gift we are given to help protect us and save us, and you have to learn how to listen to that voice. Don't waste another second of your life. Without hearing this audio book visit, audible, dot, com, slash crying junkie or you can text crime junkie, two five hundred five hundred, so don't waste another second of your life. Without hearing this audio book visit, audible, dot com, slash, crying junkie or text crying junkie, all one word to five
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all one word. You can text that two five hundred five hundred there was more junk in this basement. Thirty years later, but there was the couch, there was the radio and there was the back room where he said. The girls had been drugged and naked day was more sure than ever. That Lloyd saw all of this because he had done it all himself, a CSI
team came to sweep this place and disappointment swept over the team when nothing was found in that front room just like tiny spots here and there that reacted with Luman all but nothing
out of the normal, nothing you would expect to see in a basement workspace just when
it may be had their first tinge of doubt. They moved to the back room. It lit up from floor to ceiling at all, oh my god and right then Dave believed he knew what happened to those girls. Dave's theory is that Lloyd did this all on his own
he had pretended to be a security guard. There were actually other reports from young girls of a man trying to lure them away, but the man who kind of looked like him and Dave things that he practiced his routine till he made it perfect. He thinks that he kept the girls in the basement of his dad's home. He eventually killed Kate there and transported her body in the duffel bag.
Now when he transported Kate Dave thinks that Sheila was still alive and that Sheila was given to his family in Virginia
house, five hours away, basically to keep them quiet
and eventually he thinks the family in Virginia killed Sheila. Why did he think they were killed in several places? Will once they realise that the girls likely were brought to the Welsh Property in Virginia? They dug up areas around the property and they were able to find a single tooth that they estimated to have belonged to a twelve year old, which is exactly Sheila's age and in every story. Again the details stay. The same in every story: it's only care
who was killed in the basement. It's only Kate that was put into the bonfire, so they have this tooth or they ever able to conclusively connected Sheila here's the problem
some time in transportation of this piece of evidence and others plenty of theories about corruption or whatever or incompetence the tooth has disappeared.
So they ve never been conclusively able to link that you too Sheila the basement. They were like ripping out concrete from it, but it was all so degraded that they couldn't even get a blood type, much less a dna sample, so
Fortunately, there's no physical evidence that the lion
We has proving what happened. Just the ever changing
confession of a depraved man and his family and the theories that investigators put together and
the investigators, don't even a hundred percent agree with one another one of them.
That Lloyd was too dumb to be the mastermind. They think that it was part of a bigger child pornography and sex operate
in which we all know, could absolutely be possible. Lou
ended up pleading guilty, but still tells reporters and anyone who will listen to him that he had no
which always he got screwed over by the police. He had nothing to do with it, but that's a lie like everything else that came out of his mouth, the truth was in the details and his details led to his own home, covered in blood and a fire pit on his family's property with bone fragments in it. Lloyd, Welsh is a hundred percent received
support for what ever happened to key and Sheila, whatever horrible fate they met at the mall that spring break day. But I think this story is a whore
bull reminder that these predators aren't few and far between,
Coffee was an engineer masquerading as normal Mahon Lloyd's uncle was a security guard, be in a position of power to kids. Lloyd himself was only eighteen Bert.
I don't know how you parent in a world this scary- oh it's terrifying. Everyone needs to remember to keep your kids close teach them. It's ok to be weird. It's ok to be rude, trust, their instincts and be alert. These monsters are all walking
among us. We talked about so many families in our story today that experienced tragedy. But there is a way you can help every three years Fred Coffee is up, for
Rural Amanda, raised mom asked people to write letters to the Parole Board, asking to keep him in jail. So
have a link to her website and the facebook page that she runs. His next parole is an until twenty twenty one, but bookmark the page bookmark calendars and in Cathy's case her family is
still looking for a killer. They have a go. Fuck me to raise money for reward, which can also be found on our website and in the event her killer is caught without the public's help me
their able to use dna. All the monies gonna be donated to Saint Jews Hospital for children in Memphis Tennessee in Cathy's name. So please take a moment to go check that out and remind your kids to be
safe all that
information. Again, you can find that on our website, crime, junkie, podcast, dot com and me
The vote was on social media at come to keep out on twitter and criminal he passed on and we will be back next week with a brand new episode
crime junkie is an audio chuck production. So what do you think Chuck deal
Transcript generated on 2020-03-09.