Just like love knows no gender, neither does jealousy, dysfunction or murder. In honor of domestic violence awareness month we are partnering with The Network/La Red to bring awareness to issues of domestic violence within the LGBTQ community.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
This episode is brought to you by PNC Bank from
your buying habits to green energy tax, the real estate industry, is constantly changing, but there's an easy way for agents and their clients to stay on top of it. All PNC asian allies get access to complementary webinars with industry leaders read about the most current topics on the PNC, realistic news, feed and much more, it's all online and at no cost to you good at PNC, dot, com, slash Asian Alliance, PNC Bank, National Association, member Fdic PNC is an equal housing, lender, hi crime, junkies, I'm your host, Ashley flowers and I'm Brett, and today I want to tell you a story that is really important to me, because it emphasizes the importance of an issue. We spent a good
amount of time. On on this show, as many of you may know, October is domestic violence awareness month and this month I felt that it was really important to highlight this issue and specifically highlight it within the Lgbtq commute
I actually recently read an article from the Boston Globe where the director of this organization called the network.
Red was interviewed. Her name was Beth Levinthal an she actually said that domestic via
is very much under recognized within this community. So we want to bring attention to it here because just like love knows no gender, neither does jealousy
or murder. Our story starts in western Massachusetts and one of the best, or maybe worse than
depending on how you look at it about a region like this, is that everybody knows everybody.
Or, if you don't know them, you probably know someone who does- and this is also true of groups within those communities like paramedics, local law enforcement, emergency, medical personnel. Everyone is familiar right. Anna, Marie Cochran Tala grew up in a big tight knit attack
in irish family. In western Massachusetts she loved animals and especially loved her dog, who she named snuggles Ann
She had another dog named Charlie, which is a great name for a dog. I'm just saying we approve, so it was very
from a young age that she had a heart for service according to Daily Hampshire Gazette.
Ann Marie initially wanted to actually be a veterinarian when she was growing up, but she eventually found her path lay in helping people instead and she chose to be a paramedic.
It's a really unique person that it takes to be a paramedic. It's a super stressful job where the stakes couldn't be higher. You literally have someone's life in your hands, you hold it closed and you try and keep it safe. It is a service job in every sense of the word. Oh definitely, and it's not a job where you just wake up one morning and go, I think, I'm going to change careers and hop in the back of the ambulance like now. You have to go to school and get special training and certification
like you, have to really want and love to do this exactly an finding a calling can be a really important part of growing up and maturing into adult, but it's far from the only thing that matters there's, you know puberty life experience
things, embarrassing things making mistakes, you know forging my
stones and so much more along the way, and you start to learn who you are and for Anna Marie
growing up also meant figuring out that she was a lesbian. She didn't come out
her family right away in one thousand nine hundred and eighty eight Anna Marie was sixteen years old. The AIDS crisis had been raging for years, leaving fear and shame and death in its way.
This was the same year that HIV positive, Indiana teenager Ryan White testified in front of the Presidential Commission on the HIV epidemic. So it was in the news. It was ever
it was a really frightening time to be an Lgbtq person, especially in Lgbtq young person. Yeah, I mean I cannot imagine how hard that must have been for them. Well, yeah
and especially since Anna Marie, went to Catholic School and came from a very religious background. There was
no guarantee of affirmation or tolerance or even a safe place to live once her family found out and is actually a real
interesting story that Anne Marie's Uncle Pat told Boston magazine of how he,
turn down one day in this, like grungy motel one night when she like sixteen and he was sent there by her family like fully expecting her to be
room with like a boy, and they were like. We don't want to like be the ones to find her like you
find are, we know she's there with a boy and he
the door, an it's a girl instead and that's how her family learned about her sexual orientation. Fortunate
Anna Marie was very lucky and her family was totally fine with it. They didn't do anything
horrible, they didn't throw her out. They didn't force her into any kind of conversion therapy, anything like that. They loved and accepted her for who she was, and she was so relieved. Anna Marie had a big personality
She was super outgoing, always ready with a joke or a smile, and she lived her life by a simple model live, laugh, love. She put her desire of helping people to good use in her career as a paramedic and in this job in two thousand and two is where she meets carrot: Rintala Karas
seven years older. Also a paramedic and personality wise. She could not be more different from Anna Marie she's quiet,
reserve and were Anna Marie's boisterous Cara is less impulsive, an she's, more deliberate in how she responds to things now when they start date,
being family and friends of both Cara. An Anna Marie think that it's kind of a strange match, but you know, like you've, probably heard the saying before opposites attract right yeah.
Plus they both understand how demanding the others job is an that can be hard to find in a perspective partner, zero by two thousand and five things seem to be going great from the couple from the out.
Looking in Anna Marie moves in with Cara that year, where they share Karas House in Granby and work on building a life together. Now their little family grows quickly after they move in together because soon after in two thousand and seven
they adopted baby girl named Brianna and they get married a short time later, and I want to underscore what a huge deal this was for them. Massachusetts where they were living was the first state to have legalized same sex. Marriage back in two thousand and four so, like I said from the outside, things were looking picture perfect. They were able to get married, they had their beautiful baby girl. They both work, rewarding and fulfilling jobs. All is well for a time, but the same things that make these two opposite attract eventually start to grate on both women and one of their biggest marital strains is how each woman believes they should handle their finances. Anna Marie is a big shopper to the point where I think everyone would would probably call it a problem. She basically spends the way she lives her life, in other words, to the max she gets into thousands of dollars of debt, buying, expensive,
equipment gadgets, like you name it, and her spending has some serious financial implications for the people that she's closest to an especially for KERA. Together, they accumulate almost one hundred thousand dollars of credit card debt, my God
and money becomes a big sore spot in their marriage. I literally just read something in a psychology today, article that said that arguments about money is like one of the top four stressors in any sort of intimate relationship, and I totally believe it. Oh yeah,
doubt it for a second, so Anna Marie and start fighting about money, but that leads to fights about other things: everything and soon there.
Once harmonious relationship turns toxic by September of two thousand and eight their marriage is in a really bad place. Anna Marie goes to the police and actually filed a restraining
in order and according to edge media Anna, Marie told police Cara had quote, struck her in the back of the head with a closed fist and it's
Interesting, we don't know for sure when the abuse started in their relation
or exactly what form it took. There could have been name calling
sliding or manipulation before any of this happened. We just don't know. I mean we've talked about this before domestic violence can escalate overtime and it can take more than one form, so it's totally possible that verbal abuse or emotional abuse already occured and it's actually probably likely
before Anna Marie actually files. This restraining order no cares, arrested and charged with domestic assault and battery, but the charges later dropped at Annamarie's request and we've seen this happen in other cases to I think we talked about it. In the last episode of we talked about domestic violence, it is not unusual at all for people to go back to their abuser time and time again. It might seem so easy from the outside to talk about just walking away, but for the person in that relationship it is hard to leave so the to reconcile, but they
is where things start to get tricky because the same time, all this is happening both Cara and Anna Marie each start developing interesting relationships. That will prove to complicate this case. So during this time, each woman becomes really close with male friends like each of them had their own separate
friend, okay, like how close emotionally close like it's strictly platonic and there's
no evidence whatsoever to even suggest that either friendship even turned sexual or cross
anticlines. But there's. Definitely some emotional ties being formed here see Anna Marie is super close with her coworker marked to the point that mark even gives her a credit card and, of course, because of Anna Marie's spending habits. It doesn't take long for her to spend over
seven thousand dollars on his card yeah. So in the words of the DNA who was on like a dateline special, it is very
such an emotional affair. Now,
Meanwhile, Anna Marie Anne Karras relationship isn't improving. In fact, it's getting worse on May twelve
two thousand and nine someone in their home called nine one one and the dispatcher. Here's a woman's voice. Yelling, like just leave just leave now both Anna Marie
Sarah's. I say that it was their two year old, daughter, Brianna, who accidentally dialed the number, but that same day care actually files for divorce and, according to court records Anna, Marie and Cara both cited your tree,
will breakdown as their grounds for ending the marriage. A couple of weeks after filing for divorce
Anna Marie another call is made to nine one one this time by Ciara now, she's so upset that the dispatcher can barely understand her and eventually they're able to pick up that she's panicking.
About Anna Marie taking their daughter, Brianna away from her and as a result of this call, they actually end up both going to court. Both
filing restraining orders against each other, but their tempers, don't cool off at all, like bite
time there in court, which we know doesn't happen. The next day, they're like still arguing so bad in front of this district court judge.
That, according to Boston magazine, the judge tells them quote, I don't think either of you are stable enough to be parents- and I am this close to filing criminal charges against both of you and quote so. You can see that this is just getting so messy yeah, I mean that's, not even a healthy environment for a kid to grow up in either write an the judges warning.
Its job, though it's a huge wake up, call to both Anna Marie and KERA of just how bad their relationship has gotten an how bad it is for Brianna to be around it, and they get this like holy crap moment, but we could actually lose custody of our child Anna Marie and carry decided that the best thing to do for the two
at this point, is to separate Anna is the one who moves out of the house while Brianna stays with KERA in the House sometime in June
that same year, Anna Marie gets back together with her old girlfriend Carla, who was also a member of this, like tight knit emergency personnel community now in Carl's case she's, not a paramedic she's, actually, a police officer in Springfield, where Anna Marie grew up their relationship moves pretty fast and within a couple of months they move in together now, just like with mark.
Anna Marie gets access to Carl's credit and again within just a few months, spends a ton of you want to guess how much money she spends on this girls card. Oh, let's see with market, was seven thousand dollars right
I'm going to go twelve thousand dollars. It was
then you went a little overboard, but still ten thousand.
Can you can you even imagine now so at this point, she's already, racked up over seventeen thousand
hours of debt, not even in her own name. Her shopping addiction is getting out of control. I I honestly can't even imagine like
What is she spending all this money on? Well, so she loves photography and she was like a budding amateur photographer. So, according to the Daily Hampshire Gazette, she was like obsessed with Canon Camera equipment
I don't know if you know a lot about that kind of equipment, but it adds up really fast, like just looking at their website. While I was researching for this episode, I mean I could see where
her or anyone else. Could easel
spend a lot of money on camera bodies like fancy lenses accessories, like all of it,
You could easily like go to the store one time and spend ten grand. So by Novem
two thousand and nine Anna, Marie and Cara had been separated for about six months. Their tempers have cooled a little they're trying to work through their issues and they've even separated their finances. To reduce that stress on
their marriage. Now, regardless of anything else, they still have a child together, an at some point. They decide that the most important thing is that their daughter grows up in a two parent household without having to go back and forth for visitation, and so they decide to get back together once again and give their relationship one last shot. Zero Anna Marie breaks up with Carla
moves back to the Gamby House with KERA now, despite having almost one hundred thousand dollars of credit card debt between the two of them, Anna, Marie and Cara, decide to take this exciting, caribbean cruise now on this trip, they're determined to turn over a new
leave and they even decide to renew their wedding vows. Their plans for a beautiful new future are. We
well in motion, but then the plan goes so far off the rails. No one could have seen it coming. The cruise wasn't the answer to their problems. In fact, if anyone was paying attention, nothing in their relationship had changed even before the cruise ship left when they were at a relatives house in Florida CARE was
still making verbally abusive comments to Anna though they might have ignored all the signs early on. It didn't take long to recognize that, despite their attempts to fix
marriage, Anna Marie and carries relationship with still a toxic combination, and they were still fighting, though most of their fights.
Now we're both less around money and more around their respective male friends, and this is actually most
urgently shown in this like text exchange between Anna Marie Ancara on March 27th, two thousand and ten Anna Marie.
Had gone into work for an overnight shift and throughout her shift she was like text yelling at KERA about how she was so hurt and so upset. That Carol was hanging out with her guy friend MIKE ok, wait. There are a lot of moving peace.
Do the people in the story. I just have a straight yeah. A lot of the same name too, so are kind of the same name. Anna Marie was the one who initially became really really close to that other guy mark right that he gave her a credit card and let her spend all that money right right, but animal
he is mad that Cara is also spending time with a close guy friend. This might. Guy, yes, does not seem a little bit hypocritical. I mean it totally does, and I think at this point it's just uh,
sign of how, like gnarly an messed up. Their relationship is that they're both super jealous and possessive over each others time and
is to show you how unhealthy it was like I'll. Actually read you some of the text messages. They were actually posted in Boston magazine,
Anna Marie writes Quote- and this is in all caps mind- you quote it's becoming very clear how you feel about me
I don't like feeling this way. You are my wife. I hate the relationship we have end quote to which Kerr replied
ok, you being over the top and crazy for no reason, it's ok he's my friend puri
not doing anything wrong. End quote and then Anna Marie comes back quote. You are
rude, I'm going to leave, you don't give us, you
rude and disrespectful and quote wow, that's really intense, yet not awesome! So
after this shift were Anna Maria spends, most of it fighting with her wife over text. She comes home like she
on any other morning. It
eight hundred am and she's likely, tired from working a full shift likely tired from arguing with her wife and ready to get some sleep, but she can trust right away because Carrie gets called into her job at this other fire department. So Anna Marie is left with Brianna
but not for too long, because it actually turns out that they didn't need KERA Sokara ends you climbing,
back in the car and heads home to relieve her wife, so she just gets home. Like a couple of hours later, she was one of the things we showed up and they're like nah just kidding. We called you didn't need you so when Carrie gets home, she decides that the best thing to do is probably to take Brianna
the house for awhile while Anna Marie sleeves because listen, I don't have a kid, but I have friends who have kids to know that if a baby is not sleeping
you're, not sleeping either. One is sleeping right, so Cara goes out with Brianna, but when she walks out
door that day her life would be forever changed when
in her daughter get back home from their outing around seven hundred pm and
Marie is nowhere to be found not up watching tv, not in her bed resting, but Karen notices that the basement light is on. So she goes to check and what she finds is horrifying there at the bottom of the basement. Stairs is Anna Maries, broken lifeless body she's wearing just jeans, and a sports bra, no shirt her face is bloody and
swollen and interesting Lee she's like covered in paint now according to masslive their there?
I'm a down there, which is heartbreaking, but Cara can't even answer she just scoops her up in her arms bolt out of the house running to the next door, neighbor Roys.
When he answers the door. She thrust her daughter into his arms and screams for him to call nine one. One and freaking out Kerr runs
home to Anna Marie's side. But what really struck me here is she doesn't attempt CPR anything she just like hold her, even though she's a paramedic like
I don't know why it feels awesome. You think she'd like spring into action and start performing like these life. Saving measures. Okay, but I bet there's like a huge difference in working
a stranger like you're, trying to do and then having to work on like a friend or a family member- and I know we say it all the time
but you never know how you're going to react in this sort of situation yeah. I know that that's totally true, so it's there at the bottom of the basement, stairs clutching her wife, lifeless and paint cover body that police find Cara about twenty minutes later. But here's the thing it's kind of a
range, seen, there's Cara sitting on the ground, cradling Annemarie in her lap, sobbing hysterically and one of the first sergeant
on the seen. Someone who knows Anna Marie doesn't even recognize her at first. Her face is bloated. It's distort
covered in blood, and not only that, there's that paint everywhere. It's this pinkish white paint like the color, almost like pepto bismol, mixed with milk, and it's all over
the floor and all over Anna Marie still wet there's an open paint bucket of this ceiling, paint down in the basement so
is at first or kind of wondering if Anna Marie fell down the stairs- and maybe she like, tumbled and spilled the paint as she was falling. It takes two office
is to help maneuver Anna Marie's body off Cara like hardcore core.
Keys will know that rigor mortis starts between like two and six hours after death and when they're pulling her off of her her.
Body is already in rigor. Mortis they've already started stiffening. Eventually, though,
police managed to move her so that Cara can get up, and at this point she still freaking out understandably, but she says something that instantly makes police go. We want the first thing she says when police get Anna Marie off her. According to Boston magazine,
is quote, I understand, I'm the number one suspect end quote: that's not a great look yeah! It's strange right
we said just a little bit ago with that paint everywhere. Everyone kind of thought. Maybe it was an accident and as a matter of
There hasn't been a murder in the small town of Granby in thirty years, so I'm sure that
The last thing anyone had expected, but assumption of accident or not police, have certain procedures that they have to follow at a death scene. So the first thing they do is take care of to the station
a formal interview and she's a mess. The showed some,
interview, footage on a dateline episode and you can see how upset she is. She sort of like slumped an like fish
with wads of tissue in her hand and she's having a really hard time, even concentrating, and please ask her to walk them through that day, so they can start to piece together this story, so what she tells them she goes. You know I left
house of our daughter around three that afternoon again like in order to give Anna Marie some space. So she could rest she goes. You know we went to the
all we bought some socks. Mother Reno, a random things after that,
Mcdonald's, but then we decide to go to burger king instead, so that brand I could get some MAC and cheese. She says like this whole time to
I'm calling and texting Anna Marie while were out, but I'm getting no answer there, she's not picking up the phone she's, not answering her text messages, but why would Cara call and text Anna Marie if she knew that she was sleeping? Like wasn't the whole point of going out to let her sleep an? I honestly, don't know what she said. Her reason
was for trying to reach her, but I'm sure that investigators were picking up on the same discrepancy as well. Now, when the interviewer asked her about her relationship with Anna Marie Cara that it was turbulent and crossed the line into physical violence, she says not same video footage, know
quote: I'm no angel, but it was definitely back and forth the investigator.
Is to drill a little more into the scene of the crime, specifically that heat. How did it get everywhere and why was it all over her but cared
even have an explanation for how all that ain't got spilled. Now
have asked her, then what she thinks could have happened to Anna Marie and she in
you know if I had to guess she probably fell down the stairs like it was some kind of accident which,
like you said earlier, is likely what everyone was initially thinking, but if you thought it was an accident, what's with the whole prime suspect, buying yeah, it's a little inconsistent but yeah. That's the theme throughout this interview the whole time
Karas tone is like swinging back and forth between grieving for Anna Marie Anne then complaining about her as a person like she'll, say you know she
lazy, she was abusive. She couldn't manage her money, an like ok, maybe let the dust settle a little bit before
ripping this woman apart and like
pointing out all of your spouses faults. But that's not what happens here every once in awhile Cara, like switches and almost touches herself and apologizes
how she's talking about Anna Marie, but it's almost like. She can't help it and she keeps going on like this for awhile throughout the whole interview after awhile police decide to let Karago now at this point
a suspect, not anything, they can do to keep her restaurant. I mean the autopsy hasn't, come back
It still could be an accident, so they don't put her in custody and
now as a widow, she goes home to their daughter. Well, here is home with her daughter, trying to piece her life back together. Police are busy working this case learning,
as much as they can about. Anna Marie Cara, an n
Anyone else in their lives for
these later, the autopsy report comes back
now, while the numerous bruises across Anna Maries back legs shoulders face. All of it are consistent with falling down a flight of stairs. It turns out that it was in fact not her cause of death. Anna Marie didn't die from the fall. She died from blunt force trauma to the head and she was strangled to death and for whoever killed her. It took that person up to four minutes of holding on.
Anna Marie's neck to finally take her life away because of the rigor mortis that we mentioned earlier. The medical examiner sets her time of death at sometime before three hundred pm. That day now, in addition to her cause of death, they find something else interesting on Annmarie. They find ten cat hairs. Ok
Why is that significant? Well, Anna Marie Ancara only had a dog, so it was a fish
now that she was murdered, and this could be a clue as to who
looking for, like maybe we're looking for someone who has a cat
right away. The district attorney gets involved, working with local law enforcement, to try an uncover, who brought homicide back to grand,
immediately. A handful of suspects emerge and right at the top is Anna Marie's Ex girlfriend Carla, who she left abruptly tored the end of two thousand and nine,
so not only is there this emotional motive like she up and left you to go back to her ex or her current wife, but there's
so this financial one. Not only did she leave you for someone else, but she leaves you with ten thousand dollars in debt and it and that's basically insult to injury right there. If you ask me no carless swears, she couldn't have had anything to do with it because she was out of town and that's something that police are gonna have to look into, but Carla isn't the only suspect
police also take a good look at another significant person in Anna Marie's life, her good friend and coworker mark. They were still super tight, even making plans to hang out that same time.
Time that Anna Marie was fighting with KERA about Karas Buddy might coming over and just like with Carla
Anna, Marie Aude Mark a lot of money. So where was mark that day? What was he doing now? According to him? The first time he talks to police, he says he's home all day, then he changes his story. The second time he talks to them Mark says that he's out running errands with his
family wait. He has a family, oh yeah, a wife and an adult daughter, neither of whom knew just how deep his feelings ran for Anna Marie ok. So why not just tell place that in the first place like he doesn't do himself any favors by changing his
I have no idea, and I don't think police could figure out his lies either, which made him look sketchy and things don't start looking any better for mark when police start trying to corroborate everyone's stories. Now,
When they look into Carl's alibi. Remember she tells investigators. She was out of town that day. They actually find security, footage from the parking lot of a gym that she was at that matches Hurst
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Find out that, on the day, Anna Marie died Mark had purchased cat litter, which had nothing to do with the actual murder itself? But it proves he has a cat right which isn't looking good for mark. The thing is: he's not the only one who isn't looking good there's another person police have to look at the person, who's always looked at in an investigation when someone dies the spouse. When police tried to verify Karas story for the day, what they find is interesting, to say the least, even though Cara had receipts for all the places that she went and the places do match up to her story, the times were off now. She said she left the house at about three hundred o'clock on the afternoon of March 28th, but she doesn't show up on Cctv footage until around five hundred
yeah leaving two full hours unaccounted for, but what really catches the eyes of investigators is what she's doing on those tapes. Now, the first trip to the store like that mall or whatever is pretty uneventful, but the tapes from the Mcdonald's that she stopped at show KERA driving her pick up truck to the back corner of the restaurant and then disposing of something in the dumpster. Now, in this footage, there's also a laundry basket and I'm
bag in the back of her truck that can be seen. But when she a reappears on cameras later at the next stop the bag in the basket are gone, so police send teams to search
dumpsters around that made Donald and while the never find the basket or the bag, do you do you find something that looks very bad for KERA the find bloody cleaning racks? No, the problem is
when they test the blood for dna, though they don't get anything conclusive because they say that it's two degraded for any kind of positive match to Anna Marie ok, but like it's still blood like nothing about throwing away bloody rags
really says in a sense. I do not like that. Well, yeah, I mean, I think, that's part of why they still cite this as evidence, but without any dna that like matches or nothing for a hundred percent certainty that even came
from it as human, like it's still not a smoking gun or
thing, and it's more circumstantial than anything, exactly it's all circumstantial and like realistically
to get you have the video, but I bet it would even
really hard to prove that Cara for sure was the one that put it there. You know when you're thinking about like a future trial. To me this has
double doubt written all over it. Definitely now by this point in the investigation police,
learn that their only other suspect mark.
Probably shouldn't be a suspect at all. They find out that he had actually purchased the cat litter for an oil spill in his garage and his wife later testified that they never owned a cat at all. Ok,
but then, where did the cat has come from from my understanding. Anna Marie may have maybe like owned a cat in the past and honestly, even if she didn't this, isn't a huge deal to me like it's
Penn, her like when you come to my house, you're covered in Charlie here so
I would imagine she could pick those up from anywhere at anytime. You know even like at work if she's a paramedic right right, so this only leaves Cara on police radar and with all of this LMAO
evidence, though rigor mortis, the discrepancy,
timeline the missing bag basket, the bloody brag, their history of domestic violence with one another. It was clear to police who did it and there's a
interesting point. I want to make so like as they're doing this investigating. I mentioned that, like pepto bismol paint, basically that they had right, so they
Look into this more, they learn more about it, and it turns out that it's actually a special kind of paint, that's made for ceilings and the way it works is the paint is pink when it's wet
and then it dries to white and it dries within, like thirty minutes or so ok. But when the police showed up, the paint was pink right exactly yes,
and she was already in rigor. Yes, so the paint would have had been poured like really recently and a decent amount of time after she was murdered right yeah, exactly like everything. In this case is point
to her wife, who was in the house who lied about the time that she was leaving again I mean the medical examiner says she died before three, even though we don't see on footage
I've even heard stories that she left at three hundred and then this paint is pink when they show up like
It timing is all off. It's all off, but
everything we have is circumstantial and eventually the investigation stalls
The dna in charge of the investigation doesn't pursue an indictment against Cara and some,
all for a while at least speculated that she didn't want to be the first district attorney in Massachusetts, history to pursue a murder charge against a woman for killing her wife, so KERA ends up going free. She
he goes about to live her life on
Third by murder charges. She basically she sells
House in Granby. She moves out to Rhode Island to be closer to her parents, but it always catches up with you
eventually, a new district attorney is elected, and this time they decide to go for it on October 19th, two thousand and eleven Cara
Talla, is arrested in Rhode, island and charged with murder. Now the trial doesn't start until two thousand and thirteen in North Hampton Mass.
Sets, and in the early 90s North Hampton was known as
Bn Ville USA, like literally I'm not making that up as a quote: it's what they called it and, as you can imagine, the media has a field day with this case. Some
now. Let's do way better than others, but all too often this case, though
and even now wasn't treated like a domestic violence case that it is. It was treated like this salacious spectacle like outside of Lgbtq NEWS outlets. There isn't a lot of
bridge at all about this being domestic violence, not much really other than that, and if
it's referred to at all. It's referred to so many times as the lesbian murder. Now the first try
lasted about three weeks, and there was testimony
officers and investigators and experts the biggest problem in this first
trial is you know we talked about it, just a
got like that. The important thing to me is like okay, we have rigorous that end. We have pink paint. We only have one person who was there, but like the pictures, I guess work that they took. You couldn't see that it was still pink where they took the pictures. By the time it was white. You can see what the officers thought when they first showed up. The jury cannot reach a unanimous verdict and the judge is forced to declare a mistrial. Now the prosecution is convinced that they have the right person said they decide to try the case again in two thousand fourteen. They go through the same process. Again, they see the jury, they present the evidence. They leave the jury to deliberate and deliberate. They do only to come back with an absolute stunner. Another hung jury at this point with two hung juries keris defense team moved to have the indictment dismissed completely. It was cited in court records that quote we
trial was barred by double jeopardy principles, because the evidence presented at her second trial was insufficient to warrant a conviction. End quote, however: the judge denies this motion from carrots team and the Massachusetts Supreme Court agrees with that. So Cara is tried a third time this time the prosecution changes their tactic during the first two trials. They focus on care as me
means motive and opportunity to kill Anna Marie the defense
meanwhile focused on poking holes in all of that circumstantial evidence, especially those cat hairs, and they also point out that there was even a discrepancy in the medical exam
report- I guess initially it had listed Anna Marie's time of death as unknown
But later it was changed to she died before three and we've seen this happen. In other cases like
all the time I had, I can think of the Alice Crimmins case, where basically, the medical examiner got bullied into changing the time of death. Now I haven't heard any reports of
that happening here. In this case, I have no idea why he changed it, but I could see how this could put reasonable doubt in the minds of jurors, but in this third trial, the prosecution, hammers home. The strangest aspect of this case, the paint
they bring in a quality control engineer from a paint manufacturer and dateline put it. This man's job is literally to watch paint dry. I didn't know that was a job, but he testifies that under ideal conditions, the paint should have been dry in about half an hour. But again we said it was still wet and, like police saw the crime scene still.
Ink and according to the prosecution, and according to you and me, this proves that Cara tried to taint the scene and destroy evidence by pouring the paint all over Anna Marie's body and, if you
think about it more for, like a little bit, Cara was with her body for twenty
minutes. If you remember from the time that she like told her neighbor to call nine one, one till like police
showed up and she was like underneath her. So yeah, I don't know,
exactly when it started? Turning white? I don't know that anyone was really like noticing or even looking for that or documenting that, but like the paint could have very well been poor.
After nine one one was called like nothing about the like. The series of events makes sense. The defense, of course, questions the validity of the paint experiments and they also claim that the prosecution in the investigators have
unconscious bias that basically they made up their minds about KERA and they're willfully sticking to it, while ignoring other facts and not looking closer into other potential suspects like Mark or Carla, for the third time
a jury goes into deliberate to decide if Caravan Talla is guilty or innocent for full days passed before the jury comes back this time they have a verdict guilty of murder in the first degree,
Keras motion for reduced charge down to second degree, murder or even manslaughter was denied and she was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole
Of course the conviction was automatically appealed, but as of December two thousand and seventeen when Kerr's lawyers tried to get access to a near dateline footage, no new papers have been filed per the Daily Hampshire Gazette
as we mentioned at the start of the show October, is domestic violence awareness month and this case had all of the hallmark signs of domestic
violence. This didn't happen overnight. They didn't wake up one day and Cara, decide
Kill Anna Marie I mean this had been building and building for years. An awareness is great, but it's not enough
According to the national coalition against domestic violence, members of the Lgbtq Community experience domestic violence and intimate partner violence at not just an equal but even greater rate than straight people
that same organization reports that quote forty three point: eight percent of lesbian women and sixty one point: one percent of bisexual women have experienced rape, physical violence and or stocking by an intimate partner at some point in their lifetime, as opposed to thirty five percent of heterosexual women,
while twenty six percent of gay men and thirty seven point, three percent of bisexual men have experienced rape, physical violence and or stocking
intimate partner in their lifetime compared to twenty nine percent of heterosexual men, and I mean to me this goes out
saying, but for transgender people. The risk of intimate partner violence is even heavier. According to the two thousand fifteen us Trans Gender survey. Fifty four percent of respondents experience some form of intimate partner violence, including acts in
Course of control and physical harm, and they found that nearly half of respondents were sexually assaulted at some point in their lifetime, domestic violence has been a re, occuring
in many of our episodes. I if we look back Barbara Ann Hackman, Susan Powell, Michelle Schroeder, Carica pets
and now Anna Marie. All of these cases presented differently in the types of control exerted over these victims, but they all resulted in murder, but
please remember: murder or physical abuse is not the only form of domestic violence it can present. In many
ways for many different types of people- and I know it's tech
domestic violence awareness month. But I think that we can all do more than just being aware, and we want to focus on how we can be a force for positive change every month, we've always
picked, a charity that we believe in, and we donate a portion of our merch sales and our fan club proceeds to that organization and this month were supporting the
work la red according to their website. They are quote.
Survivor led Social Justice organization that works to end partner abuse in lesbian, gay, bisexual transgender, SM, poly, amorous, an queer communities and quote this Boston based organization, provides support
versus resources, training, community outreach and so much more all while survivors are at the forefront and they
this big event called paint the town red where they raised funds to make a difference in the lives of lgbtq domestic violence. Survivors
yeah. We are actually working with them to support next year's event, and if you want to support them, you can do that by
they're donating on their website, or if you just want to learn more about what they're doing or their resources go to TN.
Lr dot, Org
again, you as I can
stress enough. If you want more information on this very serious issue, you can go to tnlr dot org. If you want anymore information on our episode or to see pictures or sources, you can find that crying junkie, podcast dot com and you can follow us on Instagram at crime, junkie, podcast and will be back next week with a brand,
So what do you think? Do you approve
Transcript generated on 2019-11-06.