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I would wear their newest location at eight. Seventy Madison Avenue in New York I've really been enjoying looking through all of their sweaters and jackets. Now that fall is here shop in store online or download the app and get twenty percent off select items with promo code reveal that's the real real dot com promo code, real for two. Percent off select items- I remember there was one particular mushroom. Mrs Kramer allowed this girl to Do current event articles on my father It was really bad and my mother went crazy and she went and confronted the teacher, hum. I don't think she ever really liked me. Mrs Kramer. I surmise to this day that she didn't like me because of my family. This John Francies Junior, he was born in nineteen sixty on the north shore of long island. His father

John Sunny Francies was the long time underboss for the club, low crime family, one of the so called five families of New York. There's never been a guy like Sonny. An FBI agent once said: they'll, never be another guy, like sunny the last of a dying breed. What type of father was your father law? What type of father was he glad you asked because I did daddy was a really great guy line. No, he loved me playing baseball, and I was I remember this cuz. It was really important to me, but my first year of baseball, this is the one of the best times of my dad. I remember I was really bad my first year and I made the last out of the last play and, I hit the ball and I was so happy I hit it. I ran so fast the first base, but I I got called out because I was out- and I was all depressed

like I thought, I'd get my one hit and I thought my dad would be really upset because you know I always thought he wanted me to be this great player and I'm sure he did. But when I was walking back with my head down, he hey son, don't feel bad. He did you got better all year long. He should just see the way you hustled on that. That's all that matter you made contact. That's just start next year will will make more contact in. I was surprised, and these days I often wonder if it was me so much that I wanted to please him. I thought he kind of different things for me that he actually did John's father. Sonny francies was born in Naples in nineteen seventeen and grew up in New York City Sonny's, Father Carmine ran a bakery in Brooklyn, where reportedly, sometimes he put people he didn't like into the

often Sonny was arrested for the first time when he was twenty one for assault and he was just courage from the army during World war. Two because of quote homicidal tendencies, then, according to Life Magazine Heath, but in murdered his way into the mafias front rank he hung out with Sinatra and Sammy with Junior that the Copacabana nightclub in one thousand nine hundred and sixty seven. He when Prison for bank robbery and has been in and out ever since, he's never been convicted of murder. But he once said, I killed a lot of guys you're, not talking about four five six ten in that same conversation reported by prosecutors, he explained how best to dispose of a dead body involved, a microwave, a kiddie pool and patience

because he lived on Long Island people said Sonny Francies brought the mafia to the suburbs. What was life like around the house? Well my God would leave after we left for school and he always be home for dinner. Arm and he'd always take us to work when he had off so we generally going to Manhattan, he had offices. Air generally music, business and entertainment field is what I thought was his job. Sonny fancies did a lot of business with a low I have different people, sometimes in the music business. Also the film industry. He helped fund the Texas Chainsaw massacre and deep throat. He had a financial interest in various night clubs, restaurants and Strip club, but assistant US attorney, Christina Poser once said, he's never held an honest job

for a day in his life and is largely responsible for the glamorization of the mafia over the past century. I remember kids would always a from like fourth grade on that. I wish the richest kid in school. We never needed for anything. If you needed one baseball glove he'd get three when he was a kid, he got dirt bike and when he got older he got a new car our every year, sometimes more than one here John told us. He spent eighteen thousand dollars a month on clothing, except for one month when he spent thirty one thousand. He never left the house with less than one thousand five hundred cash in his pocket. This was the late 70s. Did you ever watch the sopranos of the godfather

the. What do you think about the way that organized crime, the mafia's for trade in in those shows? Well, I think the the godfather did an accurate job, a little things, people don't notice, but a but the sopranos dated times what they all were. I it was nominal. I love the sopranos, but there are some things that are silly. I don't remember exactly what what day it was just too over the top, sometimes like Tony keeping his money in his house happen happen now, there's keep some money, but not that was kind of amounts of money, because you know you're going to get arrested some day or they may come in right. Yeah growing up John knew family had money. He knew his father was somebody that people talked about, but he didn't really know what was going on until his older mother sat him down and told him the honest truth about the family business

and in May he explained everything about captains, the boss, the the underboss. The console, Yarianna Myom, this kid and Erin. It's like it's like the He said that I felt like I belonged all these years, I have been fuck like fused about something and when he said that I liked to, and that moment on. I was in and he was like talking like this is our so I soon the okay. This is my life too. I guess John started hanging around with his brother and father and CO on the crime family associates, he called them all uncles and he felt grown up. You remember, is that people would get out of their way they could get into any

club they wanted. Then he to actually do some work for his father. Sunny had too much fb by surveillance on him, but John Woo still young. You can move around more freely. He would deliver messages. He says often they were in code. And he didn't know what they meant. He remembers that sometimes the message would be bout vegetables, whether something was a good vegetable or not where it was grown by the time I eighteen John says he was working as a bag. Man collecting dropping off back six torsion money. Hi I became a a bit of a bully. I took advantage of things because I could it was more like you know, I it's it just happened and I played the part and I realized well around that time. I remember the one thing that I that my dad actually asked me. He said I'll, give you

anything you want on this earth. One thing I'm how to tell you is never embarrass us, don't embarrass Us- and I remember those words on June. Fourth, two thousand eight Sonny Franzese, along with fellow the family members, was indicted on charges of racket, conspiracy, robbery, extortion, narcotics trafficking and loan sharking. It obviously wasn't Sonny's first time in court, not by a long shot. What made this trip different was the presence of one FBI informant in particular an informant Warner Wire for eight months who talk to Sonny the way few others could I'm Phoebe

judge. This is criminal my rat. I mean I am, but there's a little difference doesn't make it better, but there's a difference. I didn't do it to get out of trouble. I did it because our way of life is a bad way of life. I felt I owed something John's testimony against his father was big news. Headlines, like mafia boss, faces prison after Sun Breaks, code of silence, John was repeatedly called a turncoat and a rat one New York Post headline read rats

boy. What is it like to tell to be telling your story of you know to the outside world? You know a lot has been said about you by the media right. A lot of people said talked about you, but what is it like for you to be talking about your experiences on the other side? Well, this is odd for me why he's been through a lot. He first went into rehab when he was twenty five. He says he disappear and then shop his family's house a mess. Now my mom would let me in the house, but you don't want to go in a house with my mother. While I'm stoned and high she was. Any you rather be around my father, my my want to trade. Anything woo you blow your high and you're drunk. It was tearable. He stole money from his family, He says he wants to all the sisters car like someone, Can I get arrested? I get sick. I'd come home.

My mother's house and then I'd start. A period of let's say, seem only reconstruction only to drink or get high again. I can track that HIV and diagnosed in nineteen. Ninety and now I got it into before eighty six, because I using needles in nineteen eighty six and go for eleven years of my life and I'm going to this twelve step program, not to mention the name I'm not supposed to not on this, but I can say twelve step. Okay. So I'm going to destroy step program from nineteen eighty five till two, I was in one and and I'm drinking and getting high the whole time through. He says things: but the to change. When he the guide a meeting, his name was Daryl. He was never afraid to tell me you are so sick. He tell me I sick in there. And that I don't even understand anything and why you dressing like

you're forty one year old, grown man, you dressing like a rap star at forty one years old, and he just say all this stuff, and somehow all of this came bearing down on me. He played for section eight housing and for disability, and he stayed sober then in two thousand he got a call from the FBI. He says it's common for FBI agents to call men verse of mob families and try and get them to flip. Just part of the business, but on the, day, maybe because his life was different. John listened. The FBI agent asked John if you be willing to gather information about his father, sunny, I shed

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simplisafe dot com, slash from thanks to super critter for their support was super critter hiring. Is simple, fast and smart. When Cafel tours Seo Dylan Masko it's needed to hire director of coffee, he went to zip recruiter posted his job and found the best person for the role in just a few days. Zip recruiters technology finds people with the right experience and invite them to apply to your job. Four out of five employers who post on Ziprecruiter, get a quality candidate within the birthday right now, you can drive zip recruiter for free at Ziprecruiter, DOT, com, slash, criminalthatziprecruiter, dot, com, Slash criminal, zipper, crew. The smartest way to John Francis

approached by the FBI in two thousand and four to provide information about his father and for much of two thousand and five. He wore a wire and recorded any conversations. He could. What what was. The evidence that you provided. There was like four hundred hours of tape. In a march tenth two thousand and five recording Suny School did John for failing to collect an overdue extortion payment. He said I would grab car Carmine and told him. Look, you bastard go out there and get the money and bring it here and if it doesn't give it to you, leave them on the floor John, also recorded conversations between sunny another Colombo family associates about extorting strip clubs and a pizza place during one someone says

you can go in and bang their brains out. You got to make yourself known, you got to be nice and easy. John also got his father and tape admitting he was the underboss of the Colombo family during Sunday's, two thousand and ten trial John explained why he became an FBI informant. He said I wanted to change my life. They would provide a means for me to change my life. Sonny's defense attorney suggested that the reason John informed on his elderly father was because the government was paying for his HIV treatments. He did it for the money the lawyer said: there's no other reason John's brother,

called it a betrayal and told reporters the family is taking it very hard. Sonny Franzese was sentenced to eight years in prison. He was ninety three John's. Testimony also led to the conviction of three other Colombo family associates. Did you think to yourself? What will my father, I think of me? I know my father loves me, that's just the kind of guy he is. He may hate what I did, but He just takes everything in stride. He said my fish, Lorraine once said to me when I was a kid that my far Father has oh cognitive dissidence. He was a gangster and he thought like a gangster. He never left that mentality.

You want to know why. I know this may sound crazy me and my dad a day in understanding that, no matter what we don't, let anyone kill anyone in our family. I do know that there probably are people who would kill me what happened when you entered witness protection. Tell me the first steps and where you went and who you became very. This is kind of important to me because the government all through this, they perfect, but I always knew where I stood clearly. I know that that was never Case with my mom or my dad, the United States government was very fair, hi mom, it's a very weird thing: a throw your phone in this,

what you standing there and you watch it explode or whatever it jumps around. Well, you pictures and everything that's difficult, but they do prepare. You there's a psychological evaluation. You go through and then you go to a I went. They took me to weigh a place and I stood there about four months. You stay by yourself. You travel with a a travel id different name: it's not your stationary or permanent, it's transitory and they give it to you on the plane and then they take it back from when you get Madonna Hotel. So now it's pretty scary because I'm staying in a hotel with no id happened n. They did make consolations. For me, too, are they said I I asked them for it. I think I asked them for

two things that I didn't lose my disability and Medicare and that I could go to a twelve step meetings anytime. I needed to. He was relocated to Oklahoma City and initially he was given twelve hundred dollars a month to live on. Then he says he was sent to Dallas and then said to South Carolina. He was there for two years, but he got scared. He told a friend too much, and so they moved him again to uh. And then in two thousand and eight he was sent to Indianapolis The government asks you to keep your story. Just don't say the locations will be specific show. It was very easy for it to fill right in with with from yeah, I'm from New York sometimes be, last kid. Your dad home is your mother home. Why don't you speak to them, and so I just

and I my family's not happy with me- enjoy two thousand and seventeen sunny Francie This was released from prison at one hundred years old. There are some newspaper stories about his release and on one of them someone posted a comment. In the new John and that he was living in Indianapolis John says he was fold he needed to relocate immediately, but he said no. He was sick of moving around. He left the witness protection program he's been out for a year now. Have you have you spoken to your father? No, I haven't, do you think you will before he dies? Well, it's funny thing. I tried when I was in the program.

I tried to write a letter and I think the program said at first date allowed me to send letters to my mom and dad, and I did- and he never spoke to me well. Mom said he got the letter and he said he loves you. Maybe she was just saying that don't know. I haven't gotten any response from him. Do you have a relationship with your brother with your other siblings? I think within our family and the neighborhood people we know What kind of shun them if they knew they were talking to me or close with me, it's hard for people to forgive or who the hell am. I thinking I would have never gaven me either. So I understand how they think and that's just the way it is,

and you know my my brothers and sisters have kids and their kids. Come from those neighborhoods and have a family, but you cousins and the people they know it it. It might bring Someone wanted difficulties to them, but I I think personally my brothers and sisters love me, I'm sure we would get along well if we were together whether they said it or not. We talked to him in his home in Indianapolis. His life now is different from how we grew up. No fancy cars, no expensive clothes. He lives in a small apartment with his cat. It's funny to think about the life that you've had and then to think about you here in the

Will house in Indianapolis tucked away? Are you scared, sometimes honestly yeah. Yeah every now, and then that gets to me when we were finishing up this episode, I sent John a text message. I asked what, if anything, the witness protection Program told him when he decided to leave here's what he replied. Three days after I signed out the assistant, US district attorney called me and asked if I wanted to go back in the program. She also said, if I had any problems to, please call her that they would always be as helpful me as they could, but to let them know. If anything didn't seem right. They also implied that it would not be good idea to go to New York that there's a

take a chance that people are still looking to hurt me John, doesn't seem to want to go back to New York and to his old life anyway. He likes Indianapolis he in his cat Indy, but he still talks and worries about what people might think of him and what he did. I think it's hard to talk about. I think if people see my life, if people see my life, they might understand better uh. Look, I think it's really good set a goal, go out and become successful. I like that. I don't know if that's this is better for me, I'm built like this better. I fit better here

this created by Lawrence Poor and me. Our senior producer is Media Wilson audio. By Michael Rayfield and Rob Byers Julie. Alexander original illustrations for each epis sort of criminal. You can see them at This is criminal dot com, we're on Facebook and twitter at criminal show Criminals recorded in the studios of North Carolina Public Radio- W? U were proud member of radiotopia from prx, action of the best podcasts around we'll be back next year. I'm Phoebe Judge this criminal

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