In 2006, a man named William Ramsey went to the Mayo Clinic in Jacksonville, Florida for a life-saving liver transplant. It was a success, and so when his health started to decline after the procedure, doctors couldn't figure out why.
Say hello on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram. Sign up for our occasional newsletter, The Accomplice. Follow the show and review us on Apple Podcasts: iTunes.com/CriminalShow.
We also make This is Love and Phoebe Reads a Mystery.
Artwork by Julienne Alexander. Check out our online shop.
Episode transcripts are posted on our website.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Support for criminal comes from capital, one ready for a new right, but not sure where to start meet the tool that makes car shopping
financing easier with capital one auto navigator. You can find a car and get pre qualified instantly, you'll get your real rate and monthly payment, without even impacting your credit score it so simple, you might feel like you're taking the easy way out. That's because you are capital, one. What's in your wallet terms and conditions apply, find out more capital, one dot com, slash auto navigator,.
Thanks to Etsy for their support when you shop it it's a, you know, you'll find something that's made, especially for you and it's a great place to find unique and meaningful gifts. Everything from customs, jewelry candles, decor and much more shop at it. Outcome for thoughtful and meaningful holiday gifts.
Betsy is giving first time shoppers ten dollars off and it's a purchase of thirty five dollars with Code Etsy gift. Ten, that's ten dollars off at Etsy Purchase of thirty five dollars with Code Etsy Gift, ten percent choppers offer ends December 31st, two thousand and twenty one sea terms at Etsy dot com terms before we get started, work cited to share that one of our favorite podcast ear. Hustle is now available in book form. This is your hustle unflinching stories of everyday prison life by Nigel Porn, Earlonne Woods tell us the origin story of the podcast and explores the realities of prison life with brand new stories never heard on the show learn more.
This is your hustle book dot com. There was the first patient and his his name was William Edward Ramsay and Miss Ramsay was a Methodist Minister who was at the Mayo clinic
for a liver transplant. This is
distant United States attorney Frank top it before that
he had been evaluated for a liver transplant by
hospital out in California. He actually lived in LAS Vegas with his wife, that's where they retired, and he bent
the hospital in California. That told him that is the condition of
Labor was essentially to too bad that he wouldn't be a candidate for a transplant.
So really he had been sent home just really to wait to die and a friend suggests
That he reach out to Mayo Clinic in Jacksonville Because-
maybe they would be a little more aggressive in trying to do a liver transplant and
and that's what happened. Mayo clinic agreed to put him on the transplant list, and that was in two thousand six and
oh, Mr Ramsay and his wife move to Jacksonville to wait on a transplant, and at that came
was a huge success. It was a very difficult transplant procedure, but there was a success.
After his liver transplant. His health started to deteriorate and the doctors could figure out why they finally tested in
in January, two thousand seven and to their surprise, he had Hepatitis c that he did not have before his liver transplant. Part of the transplant process of courses is lots of testing and he had been test.
for Hepatitis C several times along the way before his liver transplant and he had a genetic liver condition and did not have hepatitis c.
so Miss Ramsay became the red flag because this
de Ramsay did not have this disease when he went into surgery. That's correct the new, absolutely that he didn't have it.
and he had Hepatitis c that would have change the course of his treatment entirely.
but it wasn't until after he got his new liver that the Hepatitis C was discovered a little bit about Hepatitis C, because there are a number of different types of hepatitis is there, a habitat is a
is Hepatitis c of of the most serious. How is it transmitted, and why
Is it so dean?
Why would this have re such a red flag of oh boy? We ve got, we ve got a problem there. There are three
commonly known types of of hepatitis and your correct a and b are
as they can be serious, but there are much more easily tradable than hepatitis. C is a blood borne virus, and so is the only way to contracted is, is blood to blood bloodbath?
the pathogen it's an or any organism. So it's extremely extremely small, smaller than the wavelength, obliging all only see it under electron microscope and it wasn't relief discovered entirely him in people
in dealing with habit, I see for centuries in all likelihood,
but it wasn't until the early seventies that
actors were able to actually diagnose and name it,
and then it really wasn't into all around the early ninetys that we started to screen for,
but try to see in the blood bank, and there were several people that had contracted Hepatitis C prior to that through ordinary treatment. Bloodline,
patients. So it is a very serious virus about twenty percent of the population can
clear it on their own, but typically that's people that are healthy. Someone in
Mr Ramses position, who had
yes received. A new
liver and was on suppresses drugs to keep his body from rejecting the liver. Him
being exposed to Hepatitis C was horrible in terms of his ability to
have his body, accept the new liver and then, in terms of the Hepatitis C, impacting
captain see over time will destroy the liver. It is a virus that attacks the liver and apathy me I'll, adjusted. The Jackson Veil may have clinic named Doktor Walter Helsinki begin
an investigation to try and find out exactly how William Ramsay had contracted Hepatitis c. They must have thought that the Hepatitis C came from his newly transplanted liver or something really well, though,
they went looking in doktor hell, injured, epidemiologist. That was his first job was to go back and look
To see where the liver came so you're right, they looked at the donor donnay, the liver, obviously no longer alive
the donor, but did not have hepatitis C. The liver had been tested before his surgery.
And it was free of Hepatitis C, they
focused very heavily on the liver transplant unit and
What they were looking for was perhaps another patient who had been treated in the liver transplant unit had given the hepatitis C to Miss Ramsay.
They took blood samples from patients who they knew already had Hepatitis c and then the CDC
involved in the investigation every time they would find a patient
We have to try to see as a potential source for Mister
Ramses Hepatitis C. They would send that sample too.
Cdc in Atlanta
CDC in Atlanta is able to conduct genetic testing of the virus,
arrests, and so they are able to tell doktor. Helsinki,
Either yes, this is a potential source of the habitat
of Agnes Ramsay or no it's a different strain.
And so when they did, all of that, they still were not able to find
how Mr Ramsay got his hepatitis c now. At the same time, there also testing the health care providers in the liver transplant unit to see, if perhaps one of the providers themselves,
has Hepatitis C and his inadvertently transmitting it to the patients and
There was no,
There was no one that had Hepatitis c, so there was no provider to patient transfer.
The new liver was fine, they couldn't find any patient patient transfer and they couldn't find in
the provider to patient transfer. It didn't make sense
and then it happened again.
I'm Phoebe judge. This is criminal. In January two thousand eight a year,
after William Ramsay tested positive for Hepatitis C. Another man named Rick Hildebrand, also
The Jacksonville male clinic preparing for a liver transplant. He did not previously have the virus when they sent Mr Hilda orients sample bloodstream,
to the CDC. They discovered that it was a strain match to Mr Ramses strain of Hepatitis C, so
Doktor Helsinki, or know that either
Mr Ramsay may have infected Mr Hildebrand, Mr Hildebrand may have infected Mr Ramsay or there
an unknown source
of the Hepatitis C, and what Doktor Helsinki was able to determine is that these two men could not have infected each other, so he was
still looking for the south
First of now to patients
Hepatitis C and both these patients were both liver train?
my impatience, so they were both seen heavily
in the liver transplant unit and then a third patient tested positive.
But he wasn't in the liver transplant unit. He was at the male clinic
for cancer treatment. That involved,
its planning stem cells, so,
who was happened to be an attorney from Georgia, was down at me a clinic for this procedure. He too,
didn't negative for Hepatitis C,
and then he had the stem cell, replace the winner
went through. The stem cell replacement
immune system is essentially destroyed and any gets v,
very, very sick, and they determine that this patient
has Hepatitis C and he did not have it before and again
It was a strain match to the other two patients and these,
patients could there's no way that these patients would have come in contact with each other? That's correct: they. They again
look to see? Was there any overlap and there wasn't
What became very significant about this third patient is that
instead of to pay.
since in the liver transplant unit. We now have a third pace.
that's never been to the liver transplant in it. But now
what we have, and I the where the score
I'd this is we now have a triangle with
with these three, these three patients. We we
Roy Triangle and we
look in that triangle for where these three patients overlapped at Mayo Clinic, because at this point, Doktor Helen
is really shifting his focus too.
provider to patient transmission, because he
dealing with three different in full
actions of Hepatitis C that have spanned almost two years, he
He believes he's not looking for a patient but he's looking for a provider. So when they draw
the triangle: that's when they find
in that all three of these patients had been treated in
intervention Radiology Department at Mayo Clinic that was there that was their common overlap in in the Mayo clinic. So what they did is an it's one of the US both the advantages of having very detailed
medical records. Isn't the Mayo clinic was able to go back and looked to see when these,
when they Surrey patients went through intervention radiology and
they were able to tell who was working on
these days that that these three patients went went through. They obviously want letting go through on the same day they were years apart, but they re policy which employees
were there, and there were twenty one employees that overlaps with these three patients. So what's that you ve got twenty one, employees do just ask them debt. Are you positive wrapped? I do see what what did they do? That's exactly what may a clinical
they went to each of the twenty one employees and told on why
they wanted to get their blood sample
and they asked all twenty one of the employee
is to voluntarily give them a blood sample twenty
the employees did one of
employees withheld. Who was that imply
that boy was Stephen Female somewhat after twenty employees. That retested did did any of them tat positive hepatitis C. They did not all twenty one
if, when they found out that all twenty were negative, Mayo Clinic, went back to see,
even be mail
Perhaps a little more insistently this time, and I asked him if he would provide a blood sample and on April twentieth,
twenty ten Stephen email submitted to a blood sample and that sample tested positive for habit?
we'll be right, back support,
comes from progressive. Are you thinking more about how to tighten up your budget these days, drivers who saved by switching to progressive
if over seven hundred dollars on average and customers can qualify for an average of six discounts when they sign up a little off your rage, each month goes a long way get a quote today: at progressive dot com, progressive casualty, insured
company and affiliates national annual average insurance savings by new customers surveyed who saved with progressive between June,
you twenty and made twenty twenty one potential savings will very discounts very and are not available in all states and situations thanks to new for their support new uses, a psychology based approach to help build better habits in a more sustainable way. One
every time new, focuses on why, instead of what help you change your relationship with food and makes taken care of your health empowering instead of stress inducing all you need is ten minute today start building
their habits for healthier. Long term results sign up for your trial at noon
calm, Flash criminal, that's an hour
dot com flash criminal. After Stephen View, males blood sample tested positive for Hepatitis C,
Doktor Helsinki and investigators still had to figure out whether he
actually the source of the three patients infections,
the first step- is that sample here.
to be sent to the CDC in Atlanta, and it was- and it was just
ethically tested, and it was a strain match to the three patients. So
Helen juror was of the opinion that he had found his source of hope
Try to see, but of course, the CDC confirm that, with the genetic testing of the virus, then they had to determine. Where was the point of infection
Obviously, as we talked about Hepatitis C is, is very small.
You can't see it and it is a blood borne pathogen.
So they had to determine how did how did the hepatitis C and Stephen Females bloodstream get into the bloodstream of the patients? After multiple interview
Stephen View Male told investigators how it might have happened.
Stephen female worked as a radio logic technician. His work involved, preparing patients for procedures in the interventional radio.
she department gathering the necessary supplies, making sure the peace
each of rooms were sterile and disposing of you
needles and syringes
those discarded syringes. Sometimes
after over amounts offended on synthetic obiang. Lloyd
can be a hundred times more potent than morphine and fifty times more potent than heroin
prescribed, patient and severe pain and is highly addictive,
can't. You mail told investigators that he would replace them
those on the discarded syringes and inject himself with the
to know that remained in them and then he said at some point.
He began to look for full syringes before each
Caesar that required vent enough for the patients, I ve a nurse,
would fill a syringe with the drug label and sentinel
place it on the patients card
Stephen Female said that he would then
take the serene from the cart, replace the needle
with a different one and use it to inject himself, then he would put
original needle back on the empty, Syringe Philip was sailing and put it back on.
Aren't before the nurse noticed
He would do that.
Just a sleight of hand, while typically the nurse
might be distracted, doing something else in the procedure: room and intervention radiology and that's when he would make his sleight of hand swamp and
any health care provider knows that the
They never reuse any part of a syringe, obviously not the needle, but but not the syringe itself. The the plastic syringe
an easily become contaminated with blood when it is injected in into a patient
and so what was happening. Stephen female was injecting a sentinel syringe into his vein
A little bit of his blood was getting back flowed into the syringe, contaminating it
and then, when he refilled syringe with sailing and then dropped, it did the sleight of hand swap then the patients were,
we're not first while not getting funnel, but they
getting sailing. That was laced with Stephen emails, Hepatitis C.
I mean, there's there, so many horrifying things about that. But but I mean that the first
most immediate is that these are people who were going undergoing. What's would simply
pretty serious and painful procedures in there and they're not getting there. The reckoning payment
even the recently getting water, that's correct in one of the
things that we discovered, as we went through the
investigate action was that during the
procedures. The patients would typically receive up not only final, or course. In this case, are the patients for receiving sailing and not federal
but they were also receiving verse said as a benzodiazepines wit.
has an amnesia quality to it. So as
We interviewed several of the doctors and nurses over the course of this investigation. We we did discover, we can pin it down directly, but there were reports of patients not are victim
patients, but of other patients over the years that
seemingly had not had any pain medication and
on at least one occasion, we had a doctor who remembered arguing with a nurse
that the nurses slang I've, given this patient tomb to my
final already and the doktor IRA
actually said it seems like you're giving in water and
so there were some reports of that during the we discovered during the course of our investigation. But when we talk to the
Don't they had no memory of the procedure.
The intervention radiology in that was not surprising. B.
as they had all receive verse said, which again axes and amnesia.
It is good that they have no memory of of the pain that they endured in August. Two thousand and ten
after more than three years of investigation, the
MAX, involve male clinic, fired Stephen View mail and reported him to the police. According to his arrest report, view Melick knowledge to the police, who was addicted, defensible and admitted that he had taken drugs from the hospital. The FBI,
Lord Estate investigators and a special agent with the food and Drug Administration got involved
and the criminal investigation. So we had a kind of a team of investigators and the first question was:
Did Stephen be male? No, he had Hepatitis c before he was doing this at the mail.
clinic, and so we went back trying to find medical records on Stephen email and we really found none. He just didn't go to the doktor ever
so that that was a dead and we were unable to prove anything there and then then, we went back then went to look at his employment wrecked
Stephen view now had worked at Memorial Hospital in Jacksonville from ninety ninety two until two thousand for before he started working for the Mayo clinic and when investigators looked at his records, they noticed something
He had been observed by a nurse at Memorial Hospital,
and he was rummaging through a sharps container in the medical waste, so they
sent him into a,
two year Drug treatment programme
and it was why,
while he was in that drug treatment programmes that he left memorial hospital toward the end of two thousand for and in October of truth
four is when he started working at the Mayo clinic. Tell me about
confidentiality rules that would have limited what male clinic
new about Stephen Females. Past history, drug issues,
you do not imagine that something you'd want to know with someone who can be so
close to controlled narcotics. That's
correct in their work, confidentiality rules that prevented the memorial hospital
did administration from disclosing that information to anyone, including to the mayor clinic when
a clinic hired Stephen, be Melvin, probably fairly standard for most most jobs. These days, especially the medical field, they asked him about any prior drug history, whether he had any addictions and
they included alcohol as well, and he he answered on that application that he did not have any past.
issues with with drug addiction. While the Tommy he's answer
That question he's actually actively in a drug treatment programmes, so Mayo
Never now, according to court documents,
During Stephen Females time in the drug treatment programme, he was specifically informed about the risk of exposure to Hepatitis C from injections.
his drug monitoring and counselling didn't end until April two
doesnt seven at least seven months,
Three first began injecting himself with sentinel from the male clinic.
A two thousand fourteen male clinic study, using CDC data from all over the country, found that over a period of ten years, nearly thirty thousand patients were determined to have been potentially exposed to Hepatitis C because of health care providers.
having tracks one radiology technician named David, could Caskey manage to work at nineteen hospitals in eight states
even though there are indications that he was using Sentinel intended for patients at many of those hospitals in two thousand
even one month after use hired at University of Michigan Hospital vials of narcotics started. This
hearing from operating rooms. Two months later,
the scene, leaving a room quickly right before a nurse noticed that a syringe offend tunnel that again
then left on the counter in that room was gone during the police investigation David quit Cowskin
refused to submit to a lighted actor test and quit from there. He went on to work for a series of hospitals as attempt, and none of them knew why he had left the university of
Chicken no charges have been filed. No one had alerted the national right
history of radiology technicians,
hospitals policy when receiving inquiries.
for many potential employer was.
It confirmed the dates of his employment.
It was reported that the hospital
been advised against disclosing anything else. For fear of me,
sued for defamation in two thousand and eight
coworker at a hospital in Pittsburgh saw David could cowskin.
but the syringe into his pants,
not long after three empty syringes with a sentinel label were found in his pockets
after he failed to drug test. He was fired. The hospital told the staffing agency why he was
but didn't call. The police
The staffing agency didn't notify the police either
No one inform the national registry of radiology technicians
kept getting hired a different hospitals.
in two thousand ten David could cost.
It was found almost unconscious in the men's bathroom at Arizona Heart Hospital
with an empty syringe, labelled sentinel floating in the toilet next to him, but
he'd inadvertently injected himself with a different role
altogether a paralytic
the syringe had been miss labelled the
Colleagues, who found him later reported that when he came to, he said
I'm going to jail, but when
hospital staff questioned him the next day he told them.
he taken the sentinel syringe to help with some abdominal pain and deny
any history of intravenous drug use. The hospital did not press charge
and none were filed. He was reported to the region,
three of radiology technicians, but they
did their investigation because they said David quit, Kuski gave them
possible explanation for what had happened when
was reported to the Arizona Regulatory Board. He syringe
his license to practice in Arizona and moved on to other states. Afterward
king in Pennsylvania, Kansas
in Georgia. David quit Caskey got a job in New Hampshire.
his coworkers reported that he would sometimes sweat
who is scraps and was asked
strange. Sometimes he ran to the bathroom
the middle of a procedure and then
about a year after he was hired in May two thousand twelve, several patients who had gone through the lab where he worked tested positive for Hepatitis C. The strain was traced back to David quit Kuski. He was arrested
and charged with multiple counts of obtaining controlled substances by fraud and tampering with the consumer product. He plead guilty doll. The charges
and was sentenced to thirty nine years in prison, David
What county is believed to have infected
at least forty six people,
across four states, we'll be right, back supports or criminal comes from square space,
squares pieces? Everything you need to create a beautiful and modern website. They offer
Lord winning designer templates do. You can customize with just a few clicks and it's very easy.
integrate anything you can imagine. A menu and audio file away to accept payments are Donny
Since and much more and once you ve got your site set up, there's nothing to install patch up great. Ever
For free trial and ten percent of your first purchase visit Square spaced out com flash criminal
thanks to Monday dot com for their support. Monday dot com is a customizable platform that gives teams the ability to easily create the work software they need.
and more for their organization, this free
it means you can build anything CRM, Workflow, HR management system, marketing, dashboards, you name it.
I like that you have the option of building from scratch or simply picking a template to get started right away with the ability to customize at any point,
in the perfect workflow for your team with Monday dot com
work O s to start your free fourteen day.
Trial go to Monday dot com. That's a free fourteen day, try
Monday dot com during Stephen View, mouse six years of imports
remained at the Jacksonville Mayo Clinic investigators estimated that he potentially exposed
thousand one hundred and thirty two patients to Hepatitis, the maid.
Clinic began, sending out letters, one woman who receive
The certified letter warning her that she may have been exposed told her reporter. I have never felt
or safe than I was it the male clinic. For this to happen, I think, is horrible. Thousands of people submitted blood samples collected at their home, the male clinic or another testing.
site. Thankfully they discovered that
There were only two additional victims of sea
even blackmail that that we didn't previously know about. Is it? Is it true that and a number of people who they would have reached out to had already died?
Well, that is, that is true and animal, and we
we'll never know what what impact occurred there. The other thing that
will will never really know is how many patients were able to clear the virus. I said before the doctors have told me that about twenty four
set of individuals can clear Hepatitis C on their own,
and so will never really know what the what the total
universe of victims really was but for purposes of our prosecution
he identified, five Victor
beyond reasonable doubt, an end in
Stephen emails indictment. Those five victims were name specifically as as his victims. One of the interesting
dynamics of this case is that
Stephen view MEL. We think a lot, and
of criminal cases, and I'm sure you have a lot of programmes. Were people talk about dna evidence and some
One leaves there either they take the view.
Dna, whether more they leave their own dna crops
What this was
such a unique situation, where the only real evidence that Stephen View Male left, the crime scene was alive
The city had inside his own body and then
that virus was a fingerprint if he will,
that remained in these victims, but other
that virus, we would have no way of linking
Stephen, be mail to this crime
in May. Two thousand eleven Steve
do you, mail was indicted by a federal grand jury on foot
I've counts of tampering with consumer product resulting in death or serious bodily injury and
I've counts of obtaining the controlled substance by fraud a year later. One week
for the trial was scheduled to begin Stephen Female bled guilty to all counts,
blood guilty and he planned without a playground. It was, I say, straight up, guilty plea, and that meant
that there was no agreement as to what sonnets he would receive. That would,
the entirely up to Judge Howard who sentenced he was sentenced to thirty years in federal prison. What did he say with services? Did he say anything
Missy apologetic. He was apologetic and his family. His mother spoke sister spoke at his sentencing. Eyed the victim's family members spoke. We had one of the victims. The attorney from Georgia actually came to court
spoke about what he had suffered and it was horrendous. What he had gone through and really continue to go through. Babbling battling the virus thee.
I think, one of the most powerful witnesses sentencing was mister
Ramses, wife and
story. She told about her husband and what he had gone through. The suffering was almost beyond description. Remember he had gone through the liver transplant.
in September two thousand six, but then, when he went through intervention radiology after the transplant, that's when you got it
appetite to see, and it really it took away really his second chance at life, and the doctors would later described to me there.
It was a constant battle to try to help Mr Ramsay overcome the hepatitis c that they just kept losing ground, no matter what they did. It was they just couldn't gaining ground on the virus
and so beginning in early two thousand seven for the next three years, the doctors at my clinic try to save his life and
one of the dates that I've already mentioned, but was very significant case, was that date of April twentieth. Twenty ten two things happen on that
Mr Ramsay was discharged from Mayo Clinic to go to home hospice.
That was the day that he said good bye to the staff it may
clinic, and I say goodbye to him
And he went home to white. Did I?
that was the same day. The female finally gave his blood sample, which would eventually solve the case.
William Ramsay died from complications of Hepatitis C in June two thousand ten. He never learned how he had contracted the vote.
created by Lord Spore and me, media Wilson is our
you're producer does any Robertson, as our producer audio mix by John Events, Evans
generic virus. Henry special thanks to Lily Clark,
Julian Alexander, makes original illustrations for each up a sort of
you can see them at this is criminal dot, com or unfair
book in twitter add criminal, show criminal
It is recorded in the studio of North Carolina public Radio, w you and see
proud member of Radio Toby from PR acts, a collection.
the best podcast around I'm Phoebe Judge this
Transcript generated on 2021-11-05.