« Criminal

Episode 181: Pappy, Another Round

2022-01-28 | 🔗

When it comes to Kentucky bourbon, Pappy Van Winkle is among the most exclusive. You can’t get it unless you’re exceptionally lucky, exceptionally wealthy, or willing to break the law. The Pappy frenzy has the police, bartenders, and even the Van Winkle family themselves wringing their hands.

According to the Distilled Spirits Council of the United States, sales of the most expensive American whiskeys have basically doubled since 2016, when we first looked into Pappy Van Winkle. We decided to find out what's happening now.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
For them it. One in a lifetime perks aren't just once in a lifetime there, all the time there, the high and airport lounges that make layovers enjoyable, the dining parks, doors to new restaurants, the twelve fine hotels in resort properties, with elevated benefits and late check out, because vacation should never and early with the platinum card you can. Variants once in a lifetime all the time some of the many reasons or with annex platinum, visit America expressed our coms last with platinum terms of why, according to the distilled spirits Council of the United States, sales of the most expensive american whiskeys have basically doubled since two thousand sixteen. Since we haven't talked about bourbon on the show, since two thousand sixteen, we thought we should check in we'll start with our episode about Pappy, then Winkle and then take What's been going on since
generally, the way I've drink Pappy in my life has banned in the car, many of someone who has a bottle squirrel away sometimes under their coat, sometimes under the seat of their car, Anderson is the restaurant critic for the times picky. Even in New Orleans last year he tried by a bottle of bourbon, called Pappy, then Winkle for a wedding gift. He knew it wasn't. Gonna be easy, Pappy, then is one of the hardest bottles of bourbon in the world to get your hands on people camp outside liquor, stores, when they know the small annual allotment is going to be released and then it's off the shelf in three minutes I now eagerly for that? I would be able to sort of Google it you know, and of course you can. You know like the, but that's how stupid I was going on. You mean why came just Google? It means single. What like you get anything right? Well, I thought
just end up on some website, and I pay some extra exorbitant amount for battle of happy and choking the mail. But you can't, I don't Leave just legally. Do that as a seller right like us, Ben I've been in so many conversations where people are talking about prices per bottle for Pappy that I thought that the market place would be more accessible. I found out that it wasn't that excessive. You think if there is one person who could track down a bottle of bourbon, it would be a risk. Drunk critic in New Orleans, but when it comes to Babby, it doesn't matter who you are, you can't get it. It must be willing to be creative, assumed that I would have to be willing to let it get a little sketchy. If I wanted to get a bomb. Sometimes you gotta gotta meet a guy in a parking lot somewhere I mean I am, but I figured I'd have to do,
You know my head. I never imagined that it would get any sketchy than that. I mean, even though its black market whisky, still whisky is still legal product mean we're not talking about here. here? He asked all over town and eventually got the number of a guy in Mississippi. Who said he had a bottle to sound. He had no idea The sky was, and after a few text messages the guy just stopped responding I'm willing to pay an exorbitant amount. In fact, I want that to be parted, the narrative of this bottle because I wanted to be national bottle. To give this come. You know saying Even then I dont think I would have been to get a bottle. Had I not had some pretty good connections and that southern food world eventually friend took pity on in and just gave Brett a bottle from his coat Sean in any situation, where demand and radically o pieces supply. You might have meet a guy in a parking lot. You might spend two months, and on a bottle of booze. We want what we want.
Even if we don't know why, and with this particular Kentucky Bourbon laws about how and where we buy liquor have gone completely out the window with smugglers, making a fortune bar owners getting death threats and Kentucky a small town crime indicate busted for quote illegal trafficking in spirit slicker. It's like prohibition all over again, I'm Phoebe judge. This is criminal. Basically, if we wanted to find a guy to talk to us about Kentucky Bourbon you're the guy to talk to us about? That's what I keep telling me? This is bourbon historian, Michael Microfiche Bourbon has been popular for as long as I've been of legal drinking age. So I didn't know
There was a time when it was seen as a cheap drink, something you took down quickly to get drunk, but then, in the late seventies, things started to change for an unexpected reason: Scottish Justin lose started, pushing single malt scotch unto american consumers, let's face it as a balk American The same result very bright saw and they walk into a lick, liquor store. They ve been here and all about these single malt scotches and everything they see this single barrel bourbon. They say all that must be the thing that I'd think now and it's cheaper yards only thirty dollars a bottle where this year, cheap single malt scotches were fifty at the expense of one hundred saloon. Will by that and put it in air. And the idea behind it was- is that if we could get people to try it once they want to buy it again, it'll be that good and it work today, bourbon is bigger than it's ever been.
long by prohibition, style bars of opened all over the country and Don Drapes drinking a million old fashioned, didn't hurt, bourbon is having a moment and right at the very top of the pyramid is Pappy. Then Winkle One thing that makes Pappy then winkle different. Is it it's aged longer for fifteen twenty and twenty three years? retail, I think, a bottle of Pappy twenty Euro this kind of like a hundred eighty dollars a bottle and the Pappy twenty three like to earn thirty, which is out of money. But it's crazy in the world the bourbons bird, the people that are selling it really illegally. Unless you have a licence to sell liquor yourself. If you fell about liquor, it's illegal, so the people who buy hundred eighty dollar bottle and then what they call for paying it turn around to someone out else, they're, getting
Much is to three thousand dollars for that bottle. Why? How? Because people will pay that Let's just say they got a bottle. Pappy Van Winkle, because everybody knows it so hard to get it right get because they just don't make a lot of it. They distribute about. Seven thousand cases a year, compare that with Jim Beams seven million cases a year. I had a guy call from Texas claiming to be a bit air. This is pressed in Van Winkle, the Pappy in the name Pappy then Winkle was his great grandfather He said he couldn't even get his hands on. He said you have an easier time. Buying for our reason, lamborghinis than a single bottle of happy tat kind of amusing to These are really doesn't matter right. This is one of the things where does amount of half a billion dollars was not out there to get. You can ignore. What money you have you can't get exactly
grandfather back before now hundred started working for wholesale liquor. Dealer hearing Kentucky called Debian, Weller This is Julian Van Winkle, the third precedence Father leaves. Eighteen years old when he started so gradually worked. His way up in business and dumb ended up owning the company was Other gentlemen at Cairo, started my dad work for him and I work for my bad now present works for me. Happy then, Winkle is now produced by the book no trace distillery using the Van go family recipe just to do this quickly. The difference between whisking bourbon,
bourbon asked we made in America with at least fifty one percent corn whisky- dozen. You might have the expression all bourbon his whisky, but not all whiskeys bourbon. There are three things that make Pappy, then Winkle Unique, most bourbon is made with corn Roy and barley, but Pappy then Winkle is made with corn, wheat and barley. that's the first thing, second, its aged in barrels for a very long time and third, those barrels have to be approved by Julian. Personally, we discuss but is it ages le more gracefully, so armed and pick up quite as much woody notes many woody notes, ISM Rob Urban does and it just takes a different and damn that seems to be. You have my reply.
fall in love. People like so it was funding page little longer, but the death in the age definitely is a different product than something that's younger. Obviously so it's it was not easy to get people to try something like that eventually it is caught on and there now there a lot of older whiskeys out there on the market. Now Julian will be the first one to tell you that, A lot of his success is buying luck, Michael reach, being in the right place under your when he first came out. Happy twenty year old, I remembered talking to him and he I can't I'm releasing theirs. I dont know if it's gonna fly or noddies is out, may be losing my shirt on this, but he didn't H. Bourbons may have caught on but the real money being made off Pappy. Then Winkle isn't going to the Van wrinkles it's in the black market, some people,
you called it: the secondary market or grey market, because bourbon itself is an illegal, but whatever you want to call it. Business is booming. There's a website called bottle, Bluebook the tracks. in rates. It shows that if you had a two thousand nine bottle of Pappy twenty three in your house, you could sell it to someone else for two and two hundred and eighty dollars. That's an eight hundred percent mark up people by imported the secondary market, which is not something we promoted arm. It's just something had happened at its heart is no way for us to control that. I wonder if you have a lot of people both of you, I guess train a cosy up to you a lot of old friends come out of the woodwork asking if bottling round that happens from time to time, and there are both friends always so decides
human nature and that's the way things are, but it is kind of humours to see how they work What are your old happy? Then Winkle often regarded as one of the finest bourbons in the world and one of the hardest again has been stolen according to the Franklin the share of one hundred ninety five bottle. Sixty five cases of the rare twenty year old, Durban was stolen from Buffalo Trace distillery. The distillery reported the heist yesterday in October. Two thousand and thirteen sixty. Five cases went missing from the warehouse. No sign of forced entry, no security cameras, detectives had nothing to work with the Pappy was just gone vanished without trace rumour started floating around the bourbon blog seen that the theft was so well executed, it had. I've been an inside job, some speculated that it could have been orchestrated by the Van wrinkles themselves away to keep happy in the news they nicknamed it,
propagate really annoys me. When I hear people say you only, he just did this for publicity or something like that. Cuz he's. No, he didn't. He didn't need the publicity you know he doesn't have enough. he d supplies market. Now. Why would he want to create artificial faff shortage. Yet I have to make it even worse on him We me I've been in Julian's off as he gets a lot of phone calls of people complaining. They can't get his product He would love to be able to supply to everybody, but that's the problem with bourbon and particularly a twenty year bourbon, it's not a product that We got a shortage, I'll make more. Ok, you make more. but it's not ready for twenty years now you had to be
Fourchan Tower too to know how much you're going to sell. So you think you think that anyone who says Julian did this did because you are that there does being stupid far if I offend anyone, but I suggest you just being stupid if you think DR demand. Big time did. The man was already there. All I did was gave him another headache and believe me, he was passed back, to put it mildly. This episode is brought you buy wicks. Are you ready your business online. You need wicks the website creation platform, that's got all the tools you need to create manage. and grow your brand over two hundred million
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This coveted bourbon has become something of a headache for just about everyone. The Van wrinkles law enforcement would be buyers, but we learned that the most miserable people in this equation, our bartenders. We talk to the lot of them for this story. and you could just see their irritation the minute the words Pappy them. When call came out of my mouth there, just completely sick of people asking for the first question out of almost everyone's mouth is: what do you have? Poppy, this is Jeremy, Johnson, owner of medicine in Louisville I mean That's really really wonderful! Bourbon, it's absolutely fantastic, but I mean this is so out of hand that I mean there's it's not that it's the best whisky, as that is the hardest to find whisky, because Pappy is so to get bars, can pretty much charge whatever You can get away with? We heard sixty two,
seventy dollars a hundred dollars for a single two ounce poor, but the problem with having it in your bar is that everyone knows you have it in your bar. in that stuff. On your shelf, on one hand, can make you a really good in certain people's eyes with them. for it in another way when they come in kind of tipsy already and they are trying to get. illegally sell them like a half a bottle, and then they get upset that you're are right. What if I going to do that, which I wouldn't. I would have to sell it to you for this much and I like. Why can't believe this? It's like well sitting on my shelf. It's worth much more than it is in your house? So I understand why you don't get this year here. You see me Fisher, she's, the bar manager, the Germans. Are I'd, say it's a lot of guys that come in there from New York, let's say, and it's quite possible that they're gone to try and turn profit on it or put it in a bar somewhere and mark up the praise
Hola its and they get really pushes elite, which is illegal yeah. It's it's interesting, as I feel like this doesn't happen to me that often I don't think I closes matches they do, but also you know what's interesting to me is how pushy they get and you know with with Amy. She knew she absolutely image. She helps make the rules, so she knows exactly what to say and exactly how to put these guys in their place, but they can get really she and kindness try to strong arm my other bartenders, and I can't I've gotta get text. They know that I'm not gonna do it, but what will happen is. Is these two bags will be like texture, boss text him right now you now let me hear that your boss doesn't want you to do it. You know that That's what I get those weird tax it like twelve thirty at night or one in the morning and am, I know, just tell him now. You were just put me on the phone yeah. Well, I think it just gets to appoint an end. I feel like they're, there, both kind of bullying and insulting
intelligence at some point, and so I just spell it out of my K. Why would do something illegal for you. Why would I jeopardize reputation, disbar. Why would I jeopardize our our liquor licence? Why would I do any of that? For you? I don't I don't care about you, the other problem for bar owners is what Jeremy described as an arbitrary We in somewhat mysterious allocation process each year, restaurants and bars find out how many bought of Pappy, then Winkle they'll be allowed to purchase if they can purchase any at all. It's a pretty opaque system So if the bar down the street got six bottles of Pappy and you got none, it feels person, and so I just got fed up. I saw like this happened two or three times saw a restaurant open up and oh wow. They managed to get some happy and again, it's not like my biggest already. But when you have guessed constantly asking for it, it's a little frustrating you know do not be able to get your hands on it and it just kind of made me take it. Either
make some people taken more seriously. But for me, made me take it way less seriously, and I just got so far out that I said you know what, if we ever actually get an in nation of this I'm just gonna, make jealous shots with the shed and then we got an allocation and we did it Nicky, I guess he was like a screw you to the hold wild naughty boy. It's like this is ridiculous. I don't like the way this is set up. I don't think it's fair. I think it's ridiculous that this bourbon is so overvalued by so many people. I'm tired of hearing I'm tired of fish fervour you charging for one of these gelatin ten dollars which is the house who kind of hooker screw you, because the other bars are charging seventy by January and people
would never gotten a try, Pappy, twenty or Pappy fifteen got. It was an old fashioned. EL or shot form, but they got to taste, and yet it was definitely very turning to go. I don't see how you could take it so personally, except that a lot of people they re. So what happens? We can get out that you're making jealous shots Pappy? What happens next, I think that's where the death threats came in. Like you know, someone should do some really horrible fleet dear plays, maybe I'll just have to come down to your bar and burnt down. I actually someone sent me a link to a sub, let it go read it went nuts and it was. It was very graphic, and you know they were talking about, like I'm gonna find the guy that did this and I'm going to u no murder his his whole family and avoid didn't, wouldn't didn't these. I think I remember the sentence passed down his
yeah yeah. I did. I wasn't sure if I even wanted to share it, because I mean he has you have a son- and I was just like and even imagine receiving something like this? If I had a child, the euro, to the Jello shot. Jeremy says his Pappy allocation was cut in half. He threw his hands up said what the hell, I'm back the Jello shots, and he also It is our glasses of Pappy at cost no mark up either. Low shouting. Initially we got death threats for once he bore a little more sensitize too? I think when we said we're doing it at costs. We had a line out the door and was handing out tickets so that everyone would be limited to one and people were like shaking my hand, and they they said. Thank you so much. I really
for thought that I would get to try this stuff here, he'll find out this month. What is two thousand sixteen allocation is if he gets anything at all back in Frankfurt Kentucky a year and a half had passed since the theft of the sixty five cases of Pappy did gives finally got a break in the case last march, when someone sent a message to their text a tip line, the anonymous Tipp was very specific. It set a man named Toby Kurt singer, had barrels of bourbon hidden behind his house. When detectives reach Kurt singers property, they said they could smell the bird from where they were standing cursing? Her was arrested as if his arrest, traveled around town, all kinds of people distorted showing up the sheriff's office in coming forward with their stories I bought nine bottles. I bought nine keys, one man who bought a lot of bottles gather them all up,
It is a boy you deliver them to the sheriff's office. If did turn out to be an inside job, creating or worked a buffalo trace. and had very easy access to Pappy. Jan Winkle and he was running an elaborate bootleg whisky, business directing eat accomplices. the steel, and so not only the Pappy also an entire palette of eagle, rear, bourbon and many barrels of wild turkey over a period of many years here Sheriff TAT Melton on the Frankfurt local news last year. This is currently the troop of yours are frequent. Counting
Jerry, indicted nine people on a charge of engaging in organised crime. Melton said the attorney general cybercrime unit, analyzed phones and computers. He said they turned up communications about selling the bourbon and involve all things. A softball leak in ITALY connected throughout Stay was Britain's the result of a system. Commonwealths attorneys ACT, Backer said so far. Investigators have recovered bottles and barrels of urban from Franklin, Scott Harrison and Laurel counties. Mountain believes there is more bourbon out there. We tried to speak. We share starting in the sector, in fact about the case. the client, although Becker, said their close to reaching a negotiation Julian impressed, invent Winkle, didn't a common on the theft either. I tried, where were you? We really don't like to talk about this, after all, is doing more to bring it up and tell me how I wish you a happy about a minute, just something
It happened and we're going to move on, but it's too bad unknown but there still an ongoing deal, so we just don really know care of two motions. It's an ongoing investigation last month. We search a bottle of Pappy here in North Carolina not to buy it, we just wanted to taste it in a bar. After all this, we could imagine how anything could be that good We eventually found a bar tender who had some not for sale, but he grew, to let us come and try it. It's good no doubt about that. But I, and by the ship I tasted, which may be made. It tastes better. It's a very good bourbon, it's worth drinking Michael reach. Is it worth the price? Is that the people who said that? There are many bourbons out there that I consider just as good
that are readily available, that don't cost an arm and a leg. So if use it, months Adieu. Here's a glass of Pappy and here The glass of Buffalo Trace Heritage pick one. What would you would you go for the path We would really depend upon alighted from factors. The first question is: are these free their free? ok, we're talking free, I will go free, you say: ok, I think both people, always s, What's my favorite bourbon and my standard answer is, what are you buy me of? My favorite is free. Bourbon that
the episode reared in two thousand. Sixteen here's! What happened next in September, two thousand seventeen Toby Kurt singer pleaded guilty the theft charges and was later sentenced to fifteen years in prison the only serve thirty days. He was led out early on, what's called shock, probation shock. Probation is stuff and granted to young people and first time, offenders convicted of non violent crimes. The theory goes that a little time in prison, we'll shock person into rehabilitating themselves. While he admitted stealing bourbon from Buffalo, Trace, Toby hurting her denied involvement in the two thousand thirteen theft of sixty five cases of Pappy Van Winkle, though on the call Pappy Gate peace admitted to stealing in reselling lots of bourbon, but not all at once, like that any says not that time,
the investigation police interviewed another man who worked a buffalo trace and he told them that he'd stolen almost fifteen cases of Pappy. He says he did it along with a colleague a woman with a plan to enter here with the distilleries inventory records, but this and was never charged when investigators question the one. She said he was lying about all of it and she was charged either Toby cutting our has said that taking bottles was just part of the culture of working a buffalo trace. If you had an opportunity to steal. If you worked in a bank with a vault wide open and nobody seeing you are you gonna, do it? If you don't get caught, he said his parole super
and end. Next year, high Jemmy death, we call Jeremy Johnson the I met a bar who decided to make jello shouts of Pappy to see how things are going since we first release this episode or people so asking for Pappy. I think it's got into a point that people know most people know better than that does because no one ever habit, but here we still get the counters. But if I go, where do we get that right? We ve got to get all while you doubt
they caught up I'll ever since we did the della shot, they cut our allocation and half the next year and then the year after that, I got one bottle of fifteen, and ever since then I ve never gotten anything back soon. Two thousand sixteen! You got one bottle, and that was it. Then that was it. We definitely go somewhat off because we just regarded again after that, it's pretty wild. I think that they, I think they send it all. Most of it goes out of state which it I think it really sad when you can't get didn't Kentucky at all. You know, I think, I think, a lot of its going to Miami in New York and where it is not, we dont forget at home. Maybe people in Kentucky you just finches too smart, pay that much money for a glass of bourbon. should that be, could suddenly he appeared to have been a drink. The wild Turkey S height,
I want to thank you very much for this little update and have a good day. Really. You too, here
Have you ever wondered whether New York City Bengals are really better because of the water or why the mafia gotta start in Sicily, lemon groves or if those dvd and few sensors actually do what they promised gas turbines is about gassed, exploring food through the lens of science in history, each episode journeys into the weird and wonderful as we uncover everything you never knew about your paper Bu, I'm Cynthia Graver and I'm Neglect Willie, and whether your obsessed with food or someone who wants to learn more about. What's on your play, it we'd love for you to join us, listen and follow Gaster Bud on Apple or wherever you listen to me, today it even more difficult to get a bottle of Pappy. Then winkle than it was in two thousand, sixteen, even a toy. Sixteen, if you said luxury bourbon market was a little bit. silly sounding, and now I mean those same bottle
see now there I don't even bigger for tens of thousands. I have to check the most recent figures, but I'm not buying one this Adam hers he's a screenwriter and producer and his best known for creating the american people peace and somehow I also became a. I guess spurred on counterfeit whisky he's again Guinness Book of world records for owning the world's oldest whisky from it, in forty seven Adam says that in two thousand for and he started noticing something strange happening with Pappy them. Winkle bottles, empty bottles were selling on Ebay for a shocking amount of money like what why's that be paying two hundred hours for peace, a garbage that makes no sense and We also see it right now. You can go on Ebay, typing, empty Pappy and you'll see. selling for two three hundred four hundred dollar sometimes individually, and I were
on to ebay- and I looked at tat then Winkle twenty three year old and Pappy, then Winkle twenty is a little bit unique, because every single bottle has a hand written number on it in series bottle for one two, three into the thousands, so they're, very unique in that each empty bottle of tat event: Winkle twenty three is one kind. So when I saw I looked at Ebay and I looked at the last few bars of happy family got twenty three- that salt empty bottles and looked at the bottom numbers. And then I went on to Facebook, and whisky group and spent about five minutes scrolling through and found a match. I full bottle that had been sold. Month or so before, empty on Ebay and obviously a bottle can't be empty and then full later and be legit
Adam hers has gotten so good and figuring out when a fake is a fake. The people all over the country call and ask him for his opinion. He's advised auction houses and worked with private investigators and police. Can you walk me through how counterfeiting you're doing this I mean- is it you can't just be as easy as refilling an empty bottle. Sometimes is as easy as refilling an empty bottle. Yeah. It really is There are some whiskeys out there that are sealed. With heat shrink, plastic bands, anybody can buy them, so just get a bottle fill it up within objective Daniels, whatever you want, and slip anew, shrink banned on it and you're done its indistinguishable from the real thing. And then there are the really complicated ones, Tappitt Boeing is a great example where Pappy uses it.
specific kind of foil and it has to be professionally applied to the bottle with especial machine, But what happens is fakers we'll get empty bottles of Pappy from Ebay Logo to bars and say: hey man, I'll pay you for your trash environmental excited, but get it from friends and whatever, and they have an inside track to the files, they get stolen directly from the distillery. Or intercepted on the way, I'm not sure but buffaloes, he has a history of let's inventory problems and so what figures will do. Is they get. They have all real materials ever real bottle is just empty and they have a real foil caps that's brand new and on applied, and so they just by themselves. One of these machines that applies the capsules they're, not that expensive,
and in about thirty seconds, the ship they ve got new bottle looks new airport, whatever they want for Jack Daniels. Jim beam value, the smarter figures when their faking, a buffalo traced product like Pappy than Winkle they'll, fill it with the twenty dollar buffalo trace or might be thirty dollars. Now I don't know, but it still trying to approximate the profile. some of them. Don't care saw them, don't even clean out the bowels, and I know this because, where you see all the bacteria and crap growing in them, because I didn't wash out whatever gross residue was in the empty either particular Weena prolific sellers are faker. Is that you now
the other are prolific figures there. People have been doing it for years, and these are the guys who do a really well and are there not active in sort of the social aspect of the urban community, and so they can keep selling ex too eager buyers in gas station parking lots. There are their sort of figures that are active in the whisky community, some people become very well known for you now having an amazing knows at finding rare bird, that, though estate sale, sir, you know whatever and it turns out. They just me: breaking out refills and those people get busted because, can go on Facebook or wherever their operating and tell a hundred thousand people, and that's the end of that deliver contact the police or is it you know? Is this kind of police within the whiskey
community. I only talk to law enforcement when they contact me or when someone put two in touch with them. But but what do I do? I contact law enforcement, saying this guy's faking you gotta do something now: because nothing happens and, firstly, we're dealing in a grey market, most places you're not really supposed to buy, sell alcohol, and it's a little like saying hey officer, I need your help but he told me to speak cocaine. You know you So we want to do that. So, urban community has to be a little self fleecing, which is, I guess, maybe what I do cure hesitate to. Let people no, they ve been tracked enough there enjoying what their drinking and feel special to them. Churches thing largest I'll, let this one pass. I always tell people
usually I'll talk to some friends, the miners and people and say hey. You know what do I do here, but I will want to know the truth, so I tell him and their grateful, usually we nobody's ever pissed that I tell them. They have a fake people, get angry because their embarrassed that they tasted it and thought it was a real put. The true this is like you you're, not gonna know unless the faker got it really really wrong or is using colored water or something tat is thing, is something this almost irrelevant the same thing with wine. There are countless examples of people who taste fakes since we're the legitimate I mean. I I see it all the time we all like to think that we have really great judgment and really great poets, but we tend to taste
we expect the taste and want to taste am says that even experts get it wrong. A bourbon retailer in Kentucky Accidently bought fix this on their sharp even after they checked the bottles, a famous shaft that a Chicago stake has served FIG Pappy. It is restaurant without knowing He says people ask him all the time. How do I know if a bottle is real, while the fur, then you can do, is go on Google images and do a search for what you're supposed to have what you think you have and you're gonna see a thousand different examples of of what real bottles look like, and you just come that's the biggest way to spot fakes, There's Weiner whisky use compared to the real thing, but because we're talking about refills. The only thing that's not gonna look right is the capsule, the seal, the file or the plastic, and so when it comes to faking techniques, you know it's not that hard to figure out how to do. It
the real thing it's not like. They have magical powers on the bottling line there just using equipment that anybody can get. Materials that anybody can buy it buying the kind of Pappy that has handwritten numbers on the bottle. You can search Ebay for empty box would that same number? Some collectors even keep an ongoing list of empty bottle numbers to refer back to some sellers, though, will change of three to one slash, eight or one slash, two, a for look closely to see if the ink is smeared or the numbers look a little funny distillery elves are looking for ways to stop these counterfeits. Buffalo trace announced in two thousand seventeen, tat. They had spent half a million dollars to deal with the problem. The New York Times reported earlier this month. The buffalo trace had put security tags in some of its most valuable bottles. Apparently you can get an app
They will tell you if your bottom has been opened. One thing that everyone got real excited about was when they discovered these, that some of these new governor traced bottles have these chips, They said. Oh my god. It's amazing, like the thinking hell you when the bottles been opened because the photos been torn and there's the dumbest stupid I've ever heard up to be honest because we have some, Raising technology that can already tell you for bottles been opened called your own eyes there's no value in a foil that you can scan with a phone. That tells you this work has been torn open because you can just look at the soil and in it tells you the spoils. Torn your eyes. Tell you that it's like an app to tell you if you're wearing shoes, just look at your feet by the way I don't wanna make a sound like these fakes are everywhere they get disseminated widely because there is a huge secondary market for bourbon now and stores and rest
in bars in many places will buy from there as well, and so they they do end up sort of scattered, but for the most part, you're. Ok, just just don't be naive. What's your best advice for four enjoying bourbon in a glass of bourbon, whether you're paying a hundred dollars for that Glasser or twelve dollars drink it. However, you like it, don't let anybody tell you, you should have shouldn't put ice, or you have two knows it. This way. Are you should use a certain glass? That's all bs alot of people are like afraid of, like not liking, something that's actually good, like theirs. no such thing is that it just means you don't like something that other people like and if you like, the cheap stuff, more power to your great you now
you like what you like a nobody, could tell you you don't like what you like. That's it. That's it yeah criminal is created by law in sport and me later Wilson, is our senior producer sustainable, Percent of our producers are technical tractor Israel buyers episode was originally produced with help from gravy upon from the southern food ways. Alliance special tax, detainees to else Wilder and Gary crumpled Julian Alexander original illustrations reach up sort of criminal. You can see them at this is criminal dot com or on Facebook, and twitter at criminal show
criminal is recorded in the studios of North Carolina public Radio, w you and see we're part the Vocs media podcast network, discover more great shows at podcast dot, Fox media dot com, I'm Phoebe Judge this. Yeah.
Transcript generated on 2022-02-04.