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no more working for the show. Thank you very much. I have read a lot of your writing. I have you no followed some of the pieces that you written on line. Many people consider you wanna. Most important voices in in young american black culture, innovation, culture revel. Those your friend for the good people, The book, though, gave me an side into your life and into a life that many people have lived in America. That's really painful and fascinating. No ashes in the fire speaks to the first inciting incidents in this book, where someone tried to set you on fire as a child

non. Luckily that didn't haven't you. Did you to share that story that gets us into the book yeah. So I was fourteen and a group of neighbourhood kills people. I will consider folk who had been front at some point: jump. I think, picked on a lot because my gender presentation, in this particular incident at that age try to light a match up a thousand me with a gallon of gasoline but the fire the flight did not like the wind solar took it out, but here too I want to say about their story. It is a tragic story and its one, its common right want to turn us into like an exceptional story, that's something I went through individually. Young people across the country around the world, who experience themselves as as different are often take on, and I was picked on a lot, but here too Like punishment is not what I imagine as the route for transformation photos- young people by the time I finished a book- I was there,

online. What wanted to make sure that the brother I try to do that was alive was well was not in jail because cages can't transport hearts and minds. Prisons, can't do that. So, I am hoping that, whoever, wherever they are, that they can be in sight space where their imagining a world where everybody can be free. Everybody can be who they are. It's interesting that you have such a powerful world view, one that is folded, so much compassion, considering that as a gay black person than America, you have faced of many times the utmost persecution. When you look at the journey that gave black people facing particular, you know that the history of queer rights in America is one that is not hidden and then black rights is compounded on top of that, do you think that makes the experience the unique and even more powerful? Well isn't so. I start by Saint James bought when, when access question some time like how do you know? How do you feel about the black and gay like wonderful,

In many ways I am who I am because of my ex is a grown up in the world as a black queer person like Queernesses MAGIC is now please, like this. It feels good to be free to be who you are tonight in your skin, a name that, but that is also I think, you're, it's important to note that it to be black and quit our black and France, are black, engender, not conforming. Your face, multiple issues at once, multiple arrows coming away, which is why we talk about algae BT, progress, and only way that progress with regard to the rights that are impacting some like if you're black in queer you're not only face in home, for there are antagonism, because your Trans person, large engine conform, your face and racism, and if your poor, you're gonna say all in all that comes along would be an economically disenfranchise right and if you're young person, you would face all

along with that in New York City alone, most of the homeless vote that the young people that live the industry forty percent of them are eligible ciccu. So, but when we talk about educating progress? We don't think about these. These particular lies not right. That doesnt want first to talk about it. It is something that you cover the book and what I love is the book is really three parts when it is your memoir, it takes us through your life, but at the same time you give us the context. So why so? Many of these situations came to be you so give us a snapshot of America as it stands right now, when you look at the black community in America and in South Africa, many positive. Actually it's it's not dissimilar. Where you have people who seem progressive in many different, when it comes to homosexuality. This seems to be this road block. You know in hip hop that's one of the biggest dilemma. Is the space of people going like we're trying to be ahead of the curve, awoke one of an insect, but there's still that that whole like what you get are you gay? How do you think you begin that conversation? Where do you think people start especially young black people? Well,

first. You know we live within a context where you know I don't I don't make the claim that black pokemon homophobic. You know this is America right. Mr Donnelly Levers in so many ways, we have a country that is just its recent history have gone to overturn, drag a in law survival, Garza Algae, BT, people and America like to tell the tale itself as the most progressive country. In the world. We have a lot. Work to do in its country, not just with regard to understanding how expansive sexuality isn't queerness, but look We can't even talk about gender manhood in masculinity as a cage for some folk right. If we can't talk about the problems that that gender, sent us that the fact that we tell little boys to be real men like let them be kids, first we're we're dead

I'm not going to be at a point where we can rethink sexuality by so I think we have work to do so, a thing like what would it mean for us abolish to get rid of all of these boxes altogether? That, for some folk are cages, the these are cages cannot be routes to freedom Cages are not doorways to freedom, so we got to get free. We got to let some of these ideas go right and when you, when you look at five month and the celebration around being queer there is that constant idea of we can celebrate. We can celebrate the probe though we ve made us people, but at the same time there is a lot of work to be done. What do you think still needs to done within the algae. Beseech you space, we deadlines for celebration, I'm not gonna. Wait assert like what also as we ourselves, because you know we. We need space to to honour and to celebrate different too, but we have to not be committed to all of the ideas and norms that have been caters for so many people that have not brought freedom

and let me tell you how I know this is not a problem for black folk. We have a person in a White House who is lifted up and celebrated, particularly because he performs a thuggish mascot, noting that, if performed by anyone who was not a white man, wouldn't it would be caught in jail, but this one gets elected president because of a because its action to a type of toxic masculinity, which is another way of them. Thinking about men and power and look now we get a precedent that so many people voted for even women a bit plot, a big voting I was thirty three percent white women, so this is telling that society has to let go of our deep, deep, deep, deep desire attraction to the text city. That is masculinity in the way. We're scene now, one and in a White House an end of weight and what we are asking people to perform in our everyday life like gibbeted at

get rid of them. Maybe I could not recommend more is available. Now more than once, this has been a comedy central podcast.