Live from the headquarters. Eight billion eight hundred and eighty eight million two hundred and fifty five thousand two hundred and twenty five starting off this hour is going to be TIM in Florida. Hey TIM. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show.

Hello, Dave and, first of all, I'd like to say thank you for the ministry. You provide all of us well. Thank you, sir. How can I help I am a retiree and my wife is counting down the dates and she has. She has an option. Take a monthly pension plan payout or a large lump sum payout- and this is something that never been presented to Us- and so we thought maybe some outside the guys would help- which way we should go. Okay, a fairly easy calculation that leads you to a fairly easy conclusion: ok, there's two parts to the calculation the answer is, I would roll it to an IRA in good mutual funds or direct transfer rollover. There's no taxes on it. That way. It'll continue to grow, and you know I can pay out alpha that lump sum now, the

pension calculations are all done at either six and slash two or seven percent, and that's due to the regulations on a pension. They simply cannot do their calculations higher than that, because the federal laws that are in regulations that are in place to keep them from becoming in so point and so the lump sum worried to sit. There until she started drawing on it and grow at percent or seven percent would then at six, seven percent provide the monthly income that it's talking about, providing her that's how the calculation works. Ok, I'm so so one is if you invested in good mutual funds in your earn ten to twelve percent you're going, have more monthly income, the same amount of money, because it's better invested, that's where the mounts so you'd have more while you're alive the second part of the equation. Is when she dies the money's gone. If it's in a pension

and when she dies and it's in an IRA. It's now in your state in her state and it stays in your family or stays wherever she wants to leave it to her hypothetically to you and then onto your kid or whatever. So what is the lump sum? Six hundred and fifty thousand that's a lot to lose and the pension plan car payout would be fifty one a year, yeah! Ok, that's what made start thinking about no there's no guarantee of life. We all have a hundred percent chance of not getting out of this alive. You get the same research I did yeah and we're thinking about because I've already retired and I get so security and a pension check and she would be eligible for the same thing and four government checks just makes me nervous, yeah. Well, the six hundred and fifty thousand at ten percent be sixty. Five thousand at twelve percent will be eighty thousand.

Ok, and so that's obviously much more than what she would get in the pension payout, and so it would be this actually what I said it was this fifty one that's going to be about seven percent, so that. That's the payout, so you're, going to make more alive and you'll be six hundred. One thousand dollars richer on death, so it's kind of a no brainer to roll it, I heard you say several weeks ago that you would always vote for having the much rather than the payments yeah? Well, the cash In this case. The rollover becaus if you lose it all at death in because you can make more while you're alive those two variables cause Maine, most every time I mean there's a few things where they some kind of weird calculation, something they've done and you're getting you actually end up getting more but every time? It's what you describe their fifty one thousand six hundred fifty, which is a try return, and so, if you roll that good IR. Have that option. Dang dang man and you can draw

or not draw on it at that point. But if you want to draw on it, if you drew off all that it's earning, you would have more. So I'm always in your situation going to roll that way to go very. Very cool. That's a nice chunk! Alright ban is with us in Ohio, hey Ben. How are you I gave a long time listener. First time caller, I'm uh, I'm sitting on the campus that says Daddy Christian University, which you may have heard, is going to be shutting its doors year and what University Cincinnati Christian with some operating for ninety five years. Since in twenty four Cincinnati Christian. Ok! Now I hadn't heard that's sad. Ok, so that they're closing up was not that I think eight hundred two thousand students audio I'm part of about- I think thirty students in the master of counseling program,

anyway we're we're hearing. You know that there's a I've heard you talk about before financial loans. Are loans from the government could be forgiven in this situation, changes. What we don't know is: are we talking about like all of 'em or we talking like me personally, I have two degrees from another institution. Are we talking about just all financial aid loans you proceed period? Are we talking about like this no just wanted to create this school or how does that work? I would have to dig into the details with you to be one hundred percent sure, and so what I'm doing is reaching way back in my memory and it's a little foggy back there and that's the that's the authentic answer to the question, but it I know it's not to do with other schools. It would only have to do with this school? And you know that you've run up at this school, but the only place that would be forgiven if the school closes in your unable to finish an something in my head about this being a for profit to the

it was put in place for these rip off for profit schools that you get halfway through and then they just close and then show them money and that's what the law was put in place for so I think it does lied to the street to the federal insurance student loans as well, I'm positive it doesn't apply to loans. You have with another school. It's not relevant to the discussion, but ain't loans you have relative to this school. I would be digging into fast and hard and learn the details. I cannot remember that off the top of my head. Others forgiveness researcher, with a ski school closing. I just don't remember whether applies to federal and how far back it does apply. How deep into your situation, I think it might be the whole thing, ah, that that sounds right. Any debt you've got associated with that school and you're, unable to complete that degree. So I wish I could tell you exact who to talk to, but I would just dig into it, start researching it. If I were in your shoes and really become I'm going to

forty or fifty thousand dollars worth of time invested in finding this out? If that's what you got old, it's worth, it's worth your trouble to Even hire an attorney that knows something about this, and so I to know exactly what forgiveness is available to you I know that some is, but I don't I'm fuzzy on the details. I wish I could be more help. I'm sorry you're going through that Jared is going to be up next after this break and hang with us, there Jerrod open phone, eight billion, eight hundred and eighty eight million two hundred and fifty five thousand two hundred and twenty five we're glad you're here this? Is the Ramsay chef

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it is with us in California. Welcome to the Dave. Ramsey show Are you doing better than I deserve? What's up, First of all, I want to say thank you for the lessons you provide financial commercially. My wife and I are enrolled at the moment in the top Nixon difficult conversations quite a bit easier. So thank you. Glad you're going. How can I help I've got access to you are in early pension options from a previous employer? It's a fairly small amount. But I'm planning on rolling the lumps over I'm just not sure whether to roll it into a Roth IRA. I've got or or my 401k I would roll it in

traditional IRA, unless you are in less you're home, is paid off. Ok, if your home is paid off because here's the thing, if you roll it to a Roth, it creates a tax event going to pay taxes on it and if you roll into it, additional. It said, sir, without taxes for now later out of that. You can create a tax bill, but right now, I'd rather use that money on death and on taxes. Ok, we're out of debt now, and I found out that anything else and everything, no house, no ok whatever money you would have paid on taxes by rolling this over. I would rather you throw it at your house, okay and then our house is gone, I'll, roll it out, roll everything out to Roths if you're still under sixty and. It ride, then, in that Roth and grow tax free from that point, I pay the taxes on it. Then zero, hey good question. Thanks for joining us all right

nexus, is going be jillion, jillions and Iowa high Jillian. How are you I'm going Are you better than I deserve? What's up? Ok, so uh he's an encouragement today, uh my husband and I celebrated our tears. Hershey last night, which is awesome and we watched baby two for a and it was really exciting- we ended up paying off five thousand want. We have a lot of So my husband is in chiropractic school right now, he's graduating in February. Here and I are going to have one hundred and thirty five thousand dollars of debt. You graduate graduates, fourteen thousand dollars of a car loan when you graduate so we have a huge move coming up, we're moving Hawaii. He got a really amazing job on who got on

and if you're really my husband as a chiropractor as a chiropractor yeah, what will he be making? It is amazing, job. Seven thousand dollars a month, seven, a month, seven thousand dollars a month- yeah, ok, which I think is pretty good for chiropractor for, like what we've talked about with our friends, you heard from other people, that's decent and then yeah and then uh. I am blessed enough to stay with my company. I work in sales. Are you doing a different job, though? So I don't know. Exactly what I'm going to be making yet right. Now I make about ninety thousand dollars a year, so we're going to have a pretty big shovel, but we have a lot of debt and I know Hawaii is going to be really expensive like we live in Iowa right now, so living expenses like we're expecting double it's quite double double counting housing and all that might be

not count how yeah the other stuff won't be double, but housing might be okay yeah. So I guess I did the encouragement you know we have. Currently we are. We got our emergency fund or, like are one thousand dollars saved up, but we also have twenty nine Thousand dollars in the bank- and I guess what. I'm wondering is how much do we stay for this giant moves across the ocean? How much do we throw at this debt, which is really freaking me out, like the amount of interest, is just so scary? I listen to that. Borrowed future first episode- and it's just

So we are not so I will listen you're going to be making let's, let's talk, post move for a minute after the move, ok, you're going to be sitting there, you should be making one hundred and seventy year it sounds like uh huh yeah. So let's pretend you lived on. Seventy you be debt free in eighteen months, really well divide your debt by one hundred thousand a year. You got a hundred thirty five. You told me right, yeah, I'm working those car right. He got one hundred and fifty if you one hundred on it a year. That's eighteen months. And that's you living on seventy thousand, which you can do in Hawaii. I mean that's Let's just living like regular people- yes,

average household income in America, fifty nine thousand, so you know you can do this, you should be done in eighteen months after you make the move now, the trick to the move is: don't pay more than some things worth to move it across the ocean, So I'm not sure you even keep your stupid car yeah, sell it and buy another one over there yeah my shipping it if you want to price it, but don't pay you five thousand dollars to ship a four thousand dollar car. You know I mean that's what you got to look at an that couch. You got right now it ain't going with you kiddo! No, it's not that we're selling everything you see what time I saw your move? What is your move? It's a couple: airline tickets, yeah we're planning on checking bags of stuff like that

bring stuff? We don't want to sell it now, when you see what I'm saying your move is not going to be twenty nine thousand dollars moves a couple of airline tickets plus or minus a couple one thousand dollars, and then you we can set up in the new place with some furniture from the consign store in the garage sale and basic. You gotta put down your deposits on your utilities and get into the apartment right and you rent something as cheap as you can find, because you are deeply in debt yeah. Okay and you get yourself out of debt and then you start talking, but don't will rent a nice place. Okay, you're broke out of here, yeah bro people Shamrock Pledge. Yeah so you're going to do it you're going to do great you're going to be awesome it's okay! Why don't you just leave that to when's the move let's just leave the twenty nine thousand. Did you get moved, ok and put everything

You can scrape together on the debt between now and then 'cause. We know twenty nine thousand by a couple airline tickets and get a few other bags of stuff over there right, yeah, We can get you in an apartment and get your utility setup up front that, and so you should I have twenty grand plush left when you get there to throw out the debt. When you get settled in yeah, we budget nine thousand move and buying a used, couch, Igraj sale after you get there and just camp camp for eighteen months after you get. In a sense right. Yes, I got caught broke college students, you know concrete blocks to build shelves at for your books and all that kind of crap, like your college student, go by being bankers right. Alright go on the cheap for eighteen months, One hundred and seventy put one hundred on the debt in your debt, free, ok, touchdown, baby touchdown,

and you call me from what I, which I wonder, you're going to want to why the one who are so we know you're, gonna, love it it's beautiful there. I would have fun, that's a great adventure, I love it thanks for the call open phones at eight billion, eight hundred and eighty eight million two hundred and fifty five thousand two hundred and twenty five you're selling a home Tell you how not to sell your home for what it's worth. You want to sell it for less than it's worth meeting. How do it put on the It was something I don't know what the flip they're doing and let the listing get stale a your listing won't sell. Sometimes house don't sell just because they hadn't sold and no other reason and you're gonna. At less than retail? By doing that, and what that mean, as you how to do as a real estate agent, not Percent of the transactions are done by ten percent of the agents, the number of people in the real estate business that do a

transactions a year is none we're list your house for God's sake, you're, going to give somebody commission get somebody. That's high octane high protein is top of the market, but kicker it gets this done just jump on to daveramsey dot com click on it. Local providers and- find out what a good real estate agent looks like one that gets are done by every week. Well, hey! We do a lot of due diligence on these guys. We love on their great Dave, Ramsey dot com, Slash Agenor, Clicky LP for real estate and you'll be ready to go. This is the Dave Ramsey show if you

own a time share and feel stock time share. Exit team provides a way out. They've been doing this for over seven years, and I've helped over eighteen thousand people exit their time sure contracts. They know what it takes to take on the industry. Getting out of a time share can sometimes be a long process, but it's worth it time sure exit team is so confident in their process if they can't get you out in a timely manner. They'll give you your money back, call eight four, four, nine, nine, nine exit or time share exit team, dot, com and schedule. Today our question that I got from blinds dot com with their one hundred percent. Satisfaction guarantee it's. So we are guaranteed. Satisfaction, guarantee, usually means if the company messes up of the bombs don't work, you're, not But if you

screw this up. If you order the wrong color, which I definitely could do 'cause, I can't even match my clothes. So you know it's ridiculous. And you know I could actually measure it wrong and get out of box and it will go up there and then I'm frustrated and I think I've got it, all that money away nope, they cover it one hundred percent, so they want to be satisfied period, an you can get free samples up front get free shipping and then run new promos all the time if you're putting up window blind window anything. You need to go to blinds dot com and use the promo code. Ramsey Laura is in New Hampshire, my sister and I both inherited one hundred and thirty, eight thousand each from our mothers 401K. What are our options? Well, it's rolled to an IR a and it's called an inherited IR a and there are mandatory withdrawals, minimum withdrawals each year,

and, as you withdraw money from it, you are taxed. Now you can draw it all immediately with no penalty and pay all the taxes or you can. Roll it into an inherited IRA and draw it down about a little bit at a time. There's a minimum distribution request. I meant that I that then, and an IRA hands and so you're gonna. Have it you're gonna get some of the money and get pay some of the taxes mandatory or you can take it more than that, but you can't take less with that and you roll it to an inherited IR, a in good mutual funds. When you are investing like that and you've never done it before or even if you have done it before,

you're, ready to start setting up a more formal investment plan with an actual adviser which, by the way, there's a correlation between having a high quality investment professional in your corner and whether or not you build wealth, the correlation between having a dentist in keeping your teeth, it's kind of simple. You know you put a pro in your corner when you need to learn something and when you need some help with some of the processes, so click smart, Vester at Dave, Ramsey COM and because you aren't going to become a smart investor if you're not already it'll drop down a list of the qualified, investing professionals that we have vetted near you and you click on that and then you can

from among, though she can choose to interview everyone want if you want, but you can choose from among those which one you want, and these are all people with the heart of a teacher. They don't get to be on our recommended list. If they're not the hardest, it don't have the heart of a teacher. Because we do not want you Laura to invest because I said to or because someone else said to we want you to invest, because you understand never put money in something, unless you understand it, the best way to lose money is to trust someone else and just kind of close. Your eyes hope it all works out and you lose everything plus you'll be worried all the time, If you invested in something you actually know about, and you understand, because you're learning from a teacher then you're ready to go

So I'm going to suggest mutual funds an I would spread it into four types of mutual funds, my personal retirement investments or spread into four types of mutual funds: growth, growth and income, aggressive growth and international, and that's what you're doing so, thanks for the call or thanks for the question in for the blinds dot com question, so here's the thing I was reading the other day How do I say that a person who gives financial advice that everyone listens to not me, okay and that person said that they invest differently

because they have twenty million dollars or whatever it was. I don't remember, is a lot of money, an they invest differently than the advice that they give. I just bought. You know that's a little troubling to me, so I do the stuff we teach. I don't own a car card. I do live on a budget. You can ask my wife to look at her little envelope system and it's got some money in it and she actually uses it to buy stuff. We have a very unusually good life 'cause. We make a lot of money now. But we've been broke. I I only have investments in two things: Realestate that I pay cash, for, which is what I tell you to do, and mutual fonts- I don't own any single stocks, I don't

have any little super double backflip secrets of the rich investments, because my net worth is hundreds of millions of dollars, and so I have to do it differently. I don't do it differently. I dance with the girl that brought me. The principles that got me here are the ones that are going to keep me going And it's one of top, my kids to do, and as soon as my grandkids are just a little bit older, there will be teaching them to do the same thing, because this this is how you screw it up is, if you think, you're different because you got a little money. The principles that got you there will get you there yeah so we still live debt free. We still live on a budget and we still invest in the four types of growth stock, mutual funds- and that's really what we do has just. Devastatingly simple and predictable and consistent and I don't have anything I do secretly- that's different

the only advantage. I have over a lot of my listeners. I make more money. An show me my income. These days is ridiculous but I want to company that generates two hundred million dollars a year. Of course, my incomes ridiculous. So at that parts, different right answer percentage, is that we put on stuff or it doesn't take. But a tiny percentage of income to live a very good life and so- generosity is outrageous and are investing is outrageous? Is we just don't need the money for anything else? And so that's the only thing. That's different about me, but I don't. I don't invest differently than I tell you to invest. I don't, say well, now that I've reached this level, I have a double secret, Amex black.

Or whatever it is. I don't just got debit cards and honestly, sometimes with the id theft. The way it is. I think I go through a new debit card about every ninety days, which Lincoln Banks man. They cannot keep this. It's just ridiculous. Their algorithms for id theft just blows up everything constantly having to enter a new debit card number and all my apps and stuff. But just like you same way same thing, I don't have any special. Anything on that, it's all the same. So that's what you're looking for, if you sit down with a real estate agent may say you know. Well I I I I you know I I don't have a fifteen year mortgage. I I don't believe in those I believe in our adjustable rate mortgages, but you should get one I don't know if I'm dealing with a smart person here, so I don't know if I want to help me with my house, and so I want people,

Manuela line with people that I'm aligned with and that's what you're looking for Laura in this situation, when you sit down with these smart vester pros, it needs to not feel slime I mean, when you get home, you don't need to feel like you need to take a shower. You know, with somebody and have that feeling like lose like ghostbusters. I just got slimed, you know, and you can't live your life that way so shut down with somebody that you have the sense that everything down inside of you is ok. My wife is from the hills of EAST Tennessee and when she runs into a bad one, she said she has a bad feeling. And it's a seven syllable word Flynn and those feelings are deadly. Freaking accurate, go with them, Go with them if you meet with someone for an investment or a real estate. Are you working on your wheels you

But you're weird, there's a reason: 'cause, there's weird crap in the air when something is weird just know, there's a reason: it's 'cause it's weird! and you don't have to put up with that, there's another one of those fired lawyer awhile back 'cause, he said well, I'm a lawyer and uh. At least I don't give a crap what you want your job here. If you work for me, I'm going right that gun show. Thanks, I'm fine with not own staff lawyer. I don't mean that I mean outside guy you know it's unbelievable, so you got it Mountain have weirdness in the air. This the Dave Ramsey Show.

They, then is with us in Florida and welcome to the Dave Ramsey show thanks for taking my call, really appreciate, love your show. Thank you. What's up so my wife and I have a little bit of a disagreement going to be retired from the military here soon within the next about six eight months and we've got some property that will, if we sold cause us. Completely debt free house and everything just wondering what your thoughts are by selling that property will, I guess, we'll lose future

but at the same time will be one hundred percent debt free and then I'll have my military retirement to live off of know what your thoughts are. Now we've got other other wealth on that work or sitting, probably about one. Ok and cash uhm, and that one hundred and eighty k in cash, yes or are there other wealth? Our home is about it, could you get about a hundred eighty and equity and then the adjustment that we have in our real estate investment is equities, probably about two Only if we sold it we'd uh. We think about two hundred or so how old are you forty, five? Ok um,

And what were your household income be after you retire for the military, you're gonna go to work. I assume yes, sir. The next job will be bringing in with household income will be somewhere around a hundred k arm. What here's what's gonna happen? Twenty years from now crime, if you sell the investment property in your one hundred percent debt free that will accelerate your ability to build a pile of wealth in some mutual funds that are non retirement and you can pay cash for a rental in five to ten years or three. So, at the end of the story, if you want investment real estate

You will be able to do it. The other way you could get at that same thing is just use your income to an one hundred and eighty thousand cash laying around. So what you're telling me word that comes to it's been some cds or that company, investments over the years. We we did really well on that. I'm just so we would have it to be liquidate you didn't make you don't make the money in cds. Did you just put that on things we did yeah we put that we headed in savings for awhile, and so great investment. About one hundred and eighty. We just catch out. We have no nothing

to uh as a mercy fund. If we did that. Ok, so let's save an emergency fund over the next few months and then let's cash them out. And then we're done we're done now then work on pay the real estate off. If you like, do you like the piece of real estate? It's a it's a headache. It's a small apartment, complex it's actually in Tennessee is matter fact it's a little bit of a headache. Ok then sell it. Alright that solves that so yeah, let's sell it and pay off the house and then let the liquidity that you've got and, for God, sakes, let's do something with that hundred and eighty it's sitting there making no money your lives in twenty twenty five thousand dollars a year on that. You're making. One percent in your recommendation would be to go a smart investor dot com. I think it was listening.

Yeah, I don't either go to Smartvesterdaveramsey at Dave, Ramsey, DOT, com or, if you want to buy some interstate in your immediate area. Are you going to stay in that area for awhile. We don't know the next career field is kind of fluid. If you go anywhere, ok, alright! Well, I wouldn't buy until you know where you're going to be. You don't want long distance landlord you've already figured that out so yeah it's what what I would do, then is. I would park I'd set aside a section of it is my emergency fund and I would park the rest of it in just an s and p five hundred index fund. That's what I I've done there's no commission on it and it just sits there and at least going to earn what the market turns, which is got to be more in that stinking cd, so you've got another certificates of depression and so yeah an Then let that money grow an then when everything stabilizes, you know where you're going to be, if you want to buy some investment real estate by some investment realestate at that point,

You don't need one hundred and eighty sitting in C Ds and you don't need an apartment in Tennessee this driving, you crazy. So let's make some moves here. Thank you for your service. By the way, I appreciate you the country Sir Amy, is whether Sammy's in Iowa hi Amy. How are you hi? Thank you for taking my call sure. What's up? Okay, my question is: is kind of business that related, so I paid off. All of that data might is not which is about sixty three thousand. The only thing left is my things that I built businesses in, so I bought the building on contract from the previous owner. And there is a clause in there that they are so early pre payment. So you're cute, I went back under any circumstances, yeah It doesn't list yeah. It's just one sentence: basically So what happens if you sold the building yeah, I I don't know about that. Well, that would cause prepayment to occur, yeah, yeah

So I, when I got you know now that I'm ready to pass by building that's. Why last that I first the post them. I told him, you know I was doing an estimate if, regardless of that closet, early and they initially agreed So I wrote him a large check it to apply. Principle of it didn't catch it for a few weeks and then last week the land brought it back in and said. Well, we've decided it's not in our best financial future to have you pay it off early, so that you have the deed or if you got a contract for deed. I have the deed, so this is an actual mortgage on the property you want properties in your name at the courthouse. Yes, and then you have a loan against the property, not sure they can pull this off. Okay,

Thank you poorly. I think, have a poorly written deed, deed of Trust and Notre mortgage. Whatever your states in and you need to see an eternal, you need to see an attorney. Now they may. They may agree not agree to accept large principle payments, but I don't think they can keep you from paying the loan off. Ok, so just eight thousand and then tell them what we're paying this off. In the meantime, seek the advice of an attorney ahead of time 'cause. I don't think this is enforceable. You can never pay it off at time? Any reason NASH, I don't think they'll stand. Okay, I'm sorry! I yeah I I I well so here's what I would see talk to an attorney and make sure that my my intuition here is correct. I think it is my business law, insights, okay, I'm not an attorney, so get an attorney and then I don't have the attorney contact them and then save up the money and when you've got the entire amount, call them

for a meeting in person and sit down and say I have The money to pay the loan off. I've talked to an attorney, and this is not enforceable. You have to accept this ok and you're, going to accept the pay off one way or the other, so I'd like to do it on a reasonable and kind basis, an not not at all fight, but if you want to fight because somebody's trying to give you money, that's a weird fight right. Alright you're, gonna you're gonna accept the pay off and okay yeah. That's that's just doesn't work, because that would prohibit you from being able to sell the property as well, which is which is blatantly on reasonable. If you. About it right right. That's right! That's where the theory on this! That's where the theory on this just breaks down, so ok, but go ahead and get them. Just let it lay for right now they may come back

around two weeks and change their mind again, you know now so just let it lay and don't have the attorney column and threaten them and don't threaten them with attorney. But just say I want to pay this off an you know guys this is. We can do this the hard way we can do this easy way. I'd rather do it the easy way I talked internally. This is not an enforceable claw. It's so you know that's her. He wrote it doesn't matter. The stupid attorney watch some. So you just need a smart of turning. I really can't think it's enforceable because it would prohibit you from selling the property that you want to just doesn't make sense, and it it clouds the title beyond your ownership. That's just They just violates about fourteen kinds of real estate long. This is the Dave Ramsey show Thank

Klay Thompson, senior executive producer for the Dave Ramsey show this hours over, but you can find more great content on our Youtube Channel catch. The most watch Davids Deathly springs in the very popular everyday millionaire segment noted the Dave Ramsey show Youtube channels that subscribed Hey if you've got questions about retirement, investing on becoming an everyday millionaire go bigger and broader, with my man Chris Open on the Chris Hogan Shop. I am excited to be able to talk to you all week in and week out, we're going to focus on your calls and it's going to focus on building well investing and how to become an everyday millionaire subscribe to the Chris Open show. Where were you listen to podcasts? Hey, it's Jay. Producer of the Dave Ramsey show this