« The Dave Ramsey Show

You Have to Forgive Yourself to Move Forward (Hour 2)

2019-10-09 | 🔗

Debt, Career

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
The headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting videos, it's the Dave, Ramsey Show that is in the has taken the place of the B M, W as the status symbol of choice, open phones, a triple eight, eight, two, five, five, two two five at triple eight eight, two: five, five, two, two five
Joseph starts off this hour in Kentucky High Joseph welcome to the Dave. Ramsey show Hi Dave thanks for taking my call sure. What's up. I've got a little bit of issue. I've got some problems with my phone mantis an I'm just trying to figure out I've been listening to your program, I'm trying to fit my situation into your. Solutions and I'm just curious as to what, Your program would actually work for me or if I need some different advice. Ok, cool welcome board. We appreciate your joy So how much? How much do you have not counting your home. Not counting my home, let's it was spout Ninety eight, so let's go one hundred and three okay and what kind of debt is that I've got about. Fifty eight
one thousand to the IRS and I've got about twenty five thousand and try to cards. And about twenty four thousand and eight and car one or two cars. Uh one mom two cars once paid off so one twenty four thousand dollar car loan. And what's your what's your household income, Uh right at nine thousand and ninety to ninety, they would vary between there, not sure how old are you fifty eight and you're married? I am ok, cool good good or well, the Good NEWS is you don't owe a lot on your house? How do you get end up? in the hawk to the irish IRS, was out on the road a lot and just passed, Texas taxes not getting filed. If I could,
the tax bill or about credit cards either one I'm. I can. I believe I could see my way through this, but what every dying gonna get me and now are you calling it's doable, but it's painful, so paying the irish anything. Currently. Are you on an installment plan? I am not yet I have spoke with them and kind of got some. Numbers on what it would take over the next seven years. I believe cleared it out at the same time, when I'm trying to commit to them, I've got some of these credit cards that are. Salt lake coming in and garnish in all my wife's wages. Many, how many of actor, how many of actually garnish your wages are zero. Three at this point. Okay, so you got a bunch of our way. Oh yeah, she's yeah, then paying the Irish you're paying the car payment? You haven't been paying the credit cards and you make ninety thousand dollars a year and you only have an hour thousand dollar order. Mortgage does
You told me, you guys have been pretty disorganized yeah. It was not pretty totaly Ok, fair enough, I may work on it saying what it is you're going, let's go home with him, but then within alright you're, good you're, good, lifes, good hike as most problems realizing there is one, so you've lived long enough and you have enough life experience and dumb people don't have a ninety thousand dollars income. So And talking to you, you know you're if I hired and you were not caught up in all the emotion of this, your new job for one hundred thousand dollars a year is walking walk in this mess out. You could do it, the thing you do. Is you and you do what I just did you lay out exactly what the details of the problem are, then you would come up with game plan to attack those details, and- Take the ninety thousand dollars. Is there as the shovel and you open the end of it, make it really really efficient, meaning we're going to get organized. Oh word,
beyond organized we're going to get Planell, I mean we're going to just completely freaked out OCD every detail we're going to put you on a beans and rice, rice and beans, scorched earth budget not going see the inside of a restaurant list work in there and you're, not on vacation, you're broken deeply in debt to the IRS. Does that sound fair, oh yeah? This is I haven't been on vacation in ten years now. This is not always. How are you doing anything? Now, that's going to cause more iris problems, or if you stop that, I have stopped that Are there taxes all filed? Yes, ok, I will give you five things to do, and you can begin turning this around and if you'll follow through on those, then you know, I think you can do number one jump on Dave, Ramsey, DOT, com, click on E l, p for taxes get with one. People we recommend for taxes and let them negotiate an installment plan
the IRS you will not do well negotiating with the KGB. I mean the IRS by yourself. Ok, now sit down to? Have somebody sit down? Talk to him? Don't cost a lot of money, but a cup one hundred dollars and they can cut you an installment plan. This is not a big deal. Afew one hundred dollars a month, I'll put this wolf away from the door. Ok, then, sit down and we're gonna make a list in detail of all these credit cards and you make. Twenty thousand dollars a year and we're going to do a budget jump on everydollar dot com and now better than that, I'm just going to put you through our class financial peace, and give with a one year, membership to the whole thing, and that's going to hook you up with every dollar budgeting app and class on how to handle money? An you and your wife are going to go to class and I'm going to pay for it. Ok, I've we ordered that oh well, there you go ok anyway, so yeah. When it comes in get the every dollar budget app out, and you and your wife sit down together and give
Three dollars of your income, a name before the month begins: stop all in listing of any kind, also leaving of any kind Are rarely we have the IRS at the door and garnishments at the door were not ready investing we gotta get those cleaned up. So let's just do some quick, math, ok, bye, thirty thousand dollars. Out of ninety thousand means you could live on sixty thirty thousand towards debt in three years makes you one hundred percent debt free except your home three years from today. Ok, I think you'll do it faster than that 'cause. I think you can cut deeper than that, and I think you guys will look for ways to increase your income during this time. That's. If you keep the car, you might even sell the car, and that would help too that's up to you guys. You can look at that. The car is not killing you, the This organization has been killing you right. The number of the able to pay off that taxes in three
I just say ok, moment. Listen to me, one hundred thousand hundred three thousand right is everything, but the house right, divided by thirty thousand thirty, three thousand and thirty four thousand is three years thirty four thousand dollars a year off of ninety thousand income means you're living on fifty six. You can do that. Well, that's before tax. I know I know, but fifty before taxes, I'm putting you on beans and rice man. I wasn't kidding nothing. You're gay, these people out of your life they're taking your life they're, stressing you out there freaking you out there. But in your marriage- and you know this is radical situation, and it's going to require a radical right turn ready set. Go you can do. This will put. Financial peace University is going to help you. You call me need some more help, but I can see the numbers I'm outside the mess can see the numbers, and you can do this. You call me
need. Some more help. This is the Dave. Ramsey show If you have turned on the tv, read a paper or been on the web lately, then you know this country is in the midst of an identity theft, Crisis Equifax's attempting to settle with its one hundred and fifty million breach, victims and capital. One exposed the records of over one hundred million Americans. You can't possibly still think you don't need identity, theft, protection. The only way to fight it is being prepared with an id theft, protection plan and the only one I have ever used or recommended, as from Zander Insurance call. Eight hundred three five six
three thousand two hundred and eighty two visitzander dot com. Randy is with us Randy. Oregon Randy. How are you doing uhm. I am so excited to talk to you. I just want to give it a little. Thank you to dollar car rental before we start because they just saved our bacon in Tacoma, so cool. Please get them! or you get stuck or something or what we added via. Breakdown. It was a pretty traumatic thing, but they actually were the only people that would come out and pick us up gave us a great deal. They were fans Taking the guy who helped me was actually working the baby steps, so it was really cool, very cool yeah bunch of their staffs, going through our stuff right now too so, and they take
cards and we're just loving them, they're great folks, thanks for saying that fantastic How can I? How can I help today? My question is: is there I need to know when I should put my regular job to help. My husband run the business that we owned together and My concern on this one is a little bit different. I think, because I'm actually an expense to the company, I'm an office manager and I do the same job for another company professionally, but part of one of the reasons that were in baby steps. You in in debt is because I was working so much full time that we got into that with the business with IRS. Quarterly is not being filed on time and I was just overwhelmed in behind and had to file tax extensions and things like that, and I'm really service coming up on the fourth quarter with here ends and just not sure when when should, I call you know when should I step out, so I don't because this more issues by being organized in television, I yes
throw a brick through it. Didn't take that long to do a quarterly tax return, or it's more, It's also just proud making sure that I do is monthly bills that I'm there to answer the office phone that I'm there to help schedule appointment. So what are you paid in your day, job now, so right now two hundred and twenty nine dollars an hour in my arrangement with them is to only work. I can either work five days a week or four days. What are you making now are month, income about with only working four days, which is what I've been doing recently to try to stay on top of things. It's about four thousand dollars a month. Okay, yeah! Are you gonna increase the business? bottom line net profits by four thousand dollars. When you go to work for your husband, I think we can make turn is just if I don't know somewhat well it just being able to schedule him more jobs and potentially because I will be able to help him manage more employees so that he can
get job done a little bit more quickly right now he has more work than he can do. Yeah he's scheduled well through the end of dissent. We haven't even done any marketing worry. We have everything turned off, so he's not getting calls which team, which is gross revenues a year on the business right now, so she great he took one year off last year. To see if he still attached how much are his gross revenues a year about two hundred and fifty to two hundred and eighty, so increasing it? Forty eight thousand dollars is not that big a stretch. I don't think so. Now he's right now he's job and it's charging one hundred and twenty five an hour was priceless construction and that's also the same type of business, I'm working for on the regular job. So it's bigger company with how many hours a month are you working in a typical month now for the other company, I'm trying to keep it only to thirty two, so don't drop balls for him by two. If you're trying to stay at thirty two, I'm a week yeah just so I
I walked in and said. If you walked in and said I quit, but you can I listen to me yeah, I'm like you, can re hire me for twenty hours a week. What would they say. They might do it, but I feel like he actually probably needs me more than one what I asked I just asked if they would do it? Ok, so let's do that for one quarter, Q1 work for them. Twenty hours a week, you one ok, improve your theory that you can increase the top line by more than you cost by leaving the other job. Ok, instead of just going Geronimo, I think this whole world work for sure, and that's that's what we've you know. I did this once before, where I stayed home for a year
not knowing anything and not sure. I am home now you're going to be at the office, and I have child care to cover two. Is that also part of it is that you know child care and then I have out here now, but if I, if I dropped it, I could not pay for the after school care of the kindergarten. I think I can get it done in the time
and she's at school. So I would. I want I'm more concerned that you increases revenues by four thousand dollars a month. Forty eight thousand dollars a year than I am all that. Ok, I want you to prove that to yourself on a twenty hour work week, Q, one and then drop the other job and go full time or quasi full time, with your husband once you've proven that you can replace the LOS to the household of your four thousand dollars a month that you are now creating independent of his thing, but the problem in business, especially small business like you're in a situation like that is, if feels like, there's pent up demand. It feels like he's, got more jobs and he can do until you get it all booked out, and then you hire three people and some are sitting around twiddling their thumbs. 'cause you weren't right, and so you walk into these things with tests and gradually an incremental, rather than just jumping off the cliff and trying to grow wings on the way down
don't do that test the wings test. The flight pattern test test test the theory test the theory without put your family in jeopardy and on and on and on. I know you're doing that. I I I know you're putting the family jeopardy and no you're assuming things here, because some of your statements or drama based, as you know, as if you working for a full time job, keep you from falling quarterly estimates, not even close. Not even close it's four hours on a Saturday morning and you can knock out quarterly estimates on a quarter million dollar business in any rocket science. Okay, if you're the, if you're capable of doing them, you're capable of doing it in four hours on a Saturday morning, and if there are some other book keeping, it could be,
It can be done. The other times around that to show you may miss. Some television shows, you might not know, what's cool on Netflix, that's what I meant earlier, but on you know, but when you take stuff like that and try to use that as your as your cases for proof text for making this economic move. That is not proven. That tells me you and thought this all the way through, and so let's prove it out to prove it out for Q, one That's what I would do if I were in your shoes. I thanks for the call Bree is with Us Breeze in Arizona Hibri. How are you Hi Dave, I'm great. How are you better than I deserve? What's up in your world. Oh a lot so uhm I actually I just want to thank you. I really appreciate the fact that you're addressing this student loan crisis, I'm a marriage and family therapist. I completely cash rolled my doctor. It with your wish- and you know it was supposed to be about children
fifty thousand dollars- and you know everything listening to parents now the biggest way that I was able to do it was that I actually have parents not and see who were my personal bank who just encouraged me to go to college for an experience, my parents being agreement with me that hey I'll give you twenty five thousand for college and then you're done, and so in that five thousand ran out during my first year in undergrad. My jaw hit the he said well. What am I going to do now, so I transferred back home. I was at Penn. State under out of state tuition was twenty five thousand per year. And my mom said well that was it I do now, and I said well crap to move home, so they let home. I transferred back to a state college cash, my undergraduate degree and then decided well, I really want to be a marriage and family therapist. I have to have my masters. How did you cash flow that oh, I
what did you do while you're working on where you working at so I had a variety of jobs. I was behavioral health technician, things that you could do with your bachelors, just trying to get into the helping field and then bringing around your potential field You started your phd right right. So then, in my masters, at Purdue I waitressed at a country club for three years, casual down. I did receive a very large scholarship from Purdue. It was about a hundred thousand dollars. As I worked my behind off an under your rock star. Thank you for sharing this story. Hi two hundred and fifty thousand dollars and got her doctorate cash flow, every bit of it except the first twenty five in that twenty five went learning a lesson: ouch well done, ma'am well done and Neil Neil's book debt free degree is all about people like you.
We want a whole lot more people like you, instead of one point, six trillion dollars of student loan debt out there. Ramsey show if you own a time share and feel stock time share. Exit team provides a way out, they've been doing this for over seven years, and I've helped over eighteen thousand people exit their time sure contracts. They know what it takes to take on the industry. Getting out of a time share can sometimes be a long process, but it's worth it time sure exit team is so confident in their process if they can't get you out in a timely manner. They'll give you your money back, call eight four, four, nine, nine, nine exit or time share exit team, dot, com and schedule today
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these companies against each other and they know who is going to give you in your your situation? The best deal they work for you. Go to daveramsey dot, com, slepian and click on insurance, and you can get started right now Bj's with us in DC hi TJ. How are you add, Mister Ramsey. How are you doing today better than I deserve? What's up so my wife and I got married last year, I just learned about you about two weeks ago from a co worker that sit next to me at work. Her and her husband teach the financial peace class at their church cool, so I've decided my wife and I need to get on board. So We just got married last year and we've kind of just been winging it I mean I kind add my own independent budget. She kind of had hers and obviously that's not working and so we've we started a budget now,
and have taken in your classes or read your books yet, but uh we're almost done with baby step wine good. But my question is uhm. You know My wife has a lot of student debt and so listening to the cast and everything I'm like well, we need to go pedal to the metal and Gisele intense and get out of debt. Could problem is my stepdaughter? we pay about three thousand dollars a year for her to play, volleyball really good is the only sport she plays and then my my so who's. Ten weird and eight hundred a month for her to go to a christian school which she's doing very well, then uh but I'm wondering if we should stop that too kind of.
Put the pedal to the metal did pay down my wife Student Loan: what's your household income um grossly gross one hundred and fifty four ok? And how much is your wife doing London, ninety five thousand or you guys do I work in a classified room and my wife is a administrative specialist for a discount county government. Okay, cool good for you gosh. Well, I'm. Ninety I am in some large percentage of winning with money is recognizing that what you've been doing as a man working is starting to do a new thing You are doing all of that and you are a person who lives by principles. Long before you met Maine and when you identify that a principle works, you just apply.
Principle for you, that's kind of a no brainer other people don't necessarily function that way, but that's a huge advantage to you. That's how your brain works. Isn't it Sir, for you, when you're, when you're analyzing, something in your career, well you're looking at that going, but that's either working or it's not working and where you can do it or not. It's a fairly simple on off switch thing, and to go that way and what we've been doing isn't working continuing to do. What doesn't work is the definition of insanity right So I'll get there very much. So you have kind of made that call Ann that and your Two thousand dollars income are huge assets towards you. Good end to the story? Okay now. You may choose to do away with the volleyball or the christian School next year, but I wouldn't do it now and here's why it's thirteen thousand as a percentage of one hundred and fifty thousand
Ok, three and ten, you said eight hundred a month and you said three thousand for the volleyball right. Yes, sir, that's thirteen thousand dollars a year, and and and so for today, though, haven't been your problem. It's the lack of focus the lack of alignment between you and your new wife, which is not abnormal and but you've kind of, went, hey found a system, I'm working the system, I'm doing this, and when you submit yourself to a proven system, you get the positive results from it, and you know that for you. It may you've done that in other situations in your life, for I know that, because of how easily you just stepped in and said game all yes, am I right about the way you analyze things
yes, sir, no, it's what I do on my day job. I thought so hard, it's hard to turn it off quiet. Well, the principles are good critical thinking. Skills is what they are, but a lot of people that have to go a lot more emotion than you went through to get here. You went wasn't working that over there is working and we're doing that over. There is pretty simple for you, so you're going. Great big cause of that, and because you have a good income and your lack of alignment. Your lack of actually knowing these print existed where your biggest problems. It wasn't the thirteen thousand. So I wouldn't start there. I wouldn't start disrupting their little lives. Let's disrupt the big people's lives. First, okay, and she does we owe on my wife's car. She owes thirteen thousand dollars, of car, and I have a. I have a two thousand four hundred dollars left on a per
and then we have our home, which we got into two years ago, when I got into two years ago, and it's a three hundred and sixty so we're just stepping into the house now you're, ok, you're, ok, The thing is, I just take the ninety five and the 13th and the two four hundred an anti ad. Together and I get a hundred and ten on one hundred and fifty income and- and so I say Let's do it in two years: I'd be fifty five thousand a year out of a hundred and fifty you'd be debt, free Is it just made me laugh, but that's where you'll be yeah? I'm do. The point soon to a combat zone so that that be tax, free money that I also want to come yeah, absolutely and all the more reason for you to be organized and aligned with your new wife and
as your pay does your pay increase in addition to being tax free or is it just text free portion um it does. It does increase. But not much, but I mean the what the tax rate increases a good bit yeah, but salary of it increases only slightly. Ok, ok, so we're going to take every one of those dollars and we're going to crack the whip on him and make them all behave. Ok, 2a plan that you had to attune they're, going to dance to a tune that you and your wife are in agreement on Here's what I'm gonna do I'm going to put you into financial peace University to say thank you for your service to the country. I want you to go to the ash that your friends teaching I'll pay for it included in that is, every dollar app connectivity to your bank for budgeting. Now, that's simple and when you're overseas are deployed. If you've got it access, you and your wife can still be doing a budget together. 'cause you're both got it on your phone you're. Seeing everything is going on she's, seeing everything that's going on and we're
in alignment. Just like you'll stay in alignment in your relationship using email and Skype and whatever you can use depending on how tight leash the screws are down on where you're located. But that's you know, this will help you when you're deployed we love having the military on every dollar, because they're when they're deployed goes there back home and then they can work together or for those of you that travel for a living. You can work with your spouse with a with your budget together and that's a big deal so you hold on man we'll get you signed up for all of that is my gift and again, thank you for your service, I suspect, you're doing some things there that might be a little dangerous and will keep you in our prayers and we appreciate men, like you, women, like you that keep this country so people like me considering yak and safety, this is the Dave. Ramsey chef
Randy is with us in Maryland. High Randy welcome the Dave Ramsey Show. You too. What's up, so I wanted your advice because I have an appointment at one hundred and forty five tomorrow to meet with a lawyer for filing chapter seven bankruptcy, because I feel like that. My only way out at this point tough times are. Yeah, you could say that your single. No I'm married, and I have four children under the age of five, so you and your husband or filing bankruptcy no I'm filing individually, because
not right. Now, basically, hive owned up and said that that that that I've, occured or just yeah made is my fault, because I was keeping it a secret from my husband for a few years. He knew about the medical debt, because I have a lot of medical issues that I'm dealing with so I'm filing individually to to relieve our family of the problems that I've caught? How long have you been married? It'll be six years in November, and during that time you ran up the day, It's just this thing within the last three years that I was keeping it to seek before it was about fourteen thousand dollars.
And we got it almost completely paid off. We were following their plan and then um, You told me to get emotional uhm big major thing happened in my life. I got involved in a really big court case where I had to testify against my stepfather for the child abuse that happened to me and so that kind of came as a big trigger for me and henceforth came this spending kind of field emptiness that I felt when I was trying to fill it with things, because I felt really last night ride to make myself feel better and how much did you run up? I am tall twenty eight thousand dollars in consumer debt and six thousand dollars about his medical, and he knows about the matter. Sorry. So so thirty, four thousand dollars twenty eight consumer, six thousand medical apologize and do you
outside the home. No, I can't do to mental illness. I was actually just released from the hospital on September sixth, a trigger warning for your listeners. I tried to commit suicide because I felt like there was no sleep for me and now that I have diagnosing footage that I have severe bipolar disorder and really impulsive behaviors and a lot of issues but I'm getting things taken. Care of and I've already cancelled, other credit cards, so there's no using them anymore. For me, I know that much. I just think things figured out what your husband make a year. He makes fifty thousand dollars he's in the military, so much fifty five zero.
And you're seeing a counselor therapist, I assume, or two or three right, yeah III's physically and then one for just medication. I'm not able to speak to him. You know because we can't afford the gas in the tolls here in Maryland, for me to try to see them, so I flipped on hold for now. Unfortunately, ok all right on the first concern. Is you ok, you getting better you getting well, you being here, you be
with your husband. You are the first concern and whatever you and your husband prayerfully need to do to take care of you that what you do, ok, yeah, there's, there's no shame in whatever that is because you're in in a series of extreme situations, and so you have to take great self care in those situations to keep from letting things uh. Novel further in your life agreed exactly, and if the removal of this is that does that, but the chapter? Seven, that's fine! That's fine! I don't mind okay, I I ninety nine percent of time, don't recommend bankruptcy and I don't recommended he,
But I am more concerned about you that I am a lousy. Twenty eight thousand dollars in credit card debt or whether you have damaged credit for the next ten years, will tied up d in the scope of things
if you get well and you get past what you've been through as a child and you get past the struggles that you've had recently an you can get wholeness in your life again and spiritually and emotionally walked this out. That's all that matters! Ok! Ok! Let's do that whatever that is now. If- and I can't do that, I can't do what I'm getting ready to say in a three minute: radio call I'm not sure I can do it at all. 'cause, I'm probably not qualified, but if your husband and you and your therapist decided that you guys wanted to fight your way through this, the math on this is doable. You can turn this around and you can pay these people. You can probably settle with them, you're, probably behind with them
arm and you probably go through and work your way through this, and I will assign a coach to you for free of charge. If you want to try to work your way through it and if that it back end of working your way through, it isn't damaging, but instead adds dignity to your hi. Your inner healing then, will participate in that, but I don't want to lay a guilt trip on you and crush you. Okay,. Ok- and I don't know where you are- I don't know how fragile you are. It's obvious you've been through Hell, ok, and I don't want to take somebody this fragile and dump a guilt trip on him over a lousy, little pilot credit card debt when life is more important than that. So start again start fresh wipe the slate clean. If that's what you want to do it, If you've got the strength, I want to wipe it fresh, sorry, interject. I wanted to wipe it fresh for me because of what I've done
I listen. I know how I get that get that rely on the car. I get that, but if I am your husband, I can put my arms around you and just say: you're, forgiven, Tara, it's white, fresh! Now, let's go work and pay it off, but that has to do. How your relationship with him is. If your therapist thinks you've got the strength to do that, and if that becomes an integral part of your healing. Not if that crush issue and put you back in the suicide ward again, ok, But you know you need to get the wet noodle and put it up your beating yourself enough. Ok, it's just some credit card that it's just whooped. It up t lots of people have stupider stuff in the last two hours on the show. Okay, you're, not near the front of the line of stupid you're, not even close to the front of the line you just did you have Tremendously toxic situation that you
now I was a child and an so you had some shame based perception and spending Whoopi lots of people do you've realized it. I suspect, listening to you you'll. Never do it again because it wasn't fruitful. Was it how So forgive yourself. I forgive you. Your husband probably has Thank you a lot coming from you. I appreciate it. Just I mean we've all done. I mean I went through bankruptcy when I was twenty eight. I had to go through these exact same emotions but from a different foundational viewpoint point, but I had to go dead. I'm Dave, you thought you were smart and you are stupid and it took me awhile to get my confidence back after getting the legs knocked out from under me. My knees broken. You know what I'm saying and so this has everything if you've got the relationship with your therapist in your husband to work this through.
You hold on Madison will pick up. I will assign a coach to you free of charge at my expense, if you don't you want to file tomorrow? You and I are still friends and I'll still walk with you through the through your new future, either one's fine. This is the Dave Ramsey Show This is James child. The producer of the Dave Ramsey Show. Did you know you can now listen to the Dave, Ramsey Show on Pandora and Spotify for all the ways to watch and listen check out our show page Dave, Ramsey, dot com, slash show
If you're looking for fun and practical ways to save money in your everyday life, you need to check out the Rachel cruise show a podcast from money expert. My daughter, Rachel Groups, hey guys it's ritual crews and I'm so excited to tell you about my podcast. A lot of people are living paycheck to paycheck there and that you don't even know where to begin, but they have this need. This want to get in control of their money, and if that's you, you have come to the right spot. So each episode during get a ton of inspiration and practical advice, if not subscribe to the rates of pre, show podcast make sure you do it today hear more from the Ramsey network, including the Rachel cruise show. Wherever you listen to podcasts, hey, it's Jay Producer of the Dave Ramsey Show
Transcript generated on 2019-11-07.