Hello, I'm Kirsty Young and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For rights reasons, we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in 1990 and the presenter was Sue Lawley. My castaway this week is a sportsman. Born nearly 30 years ago, the son of a fruit and veg merchant, his life... Might have been unremarkable but for one outstanding ability he could play football to Leicester City at the age of 16 he turned professional at 18 and went on to play for England.

He was bought by Everton for £800,000. One year and 40 goals later by Barcelona for more than two million. Admired for his good behaviour, he's never once been booked. And his outstanding skill, he was the top scorer in the 86 World Cup, he is one of the... Ambassadors of our national game. He is of course the captain of England, Gary Lineker. Twelve years on the professional football field, Gary, and never been booked. Now, what do you put that down to? Is it niceness? Skill? Well, I think I haven't got a temper which helps because I do get my fair share of stick and of bad treatment but I'm a very placid person, pretty easy going. What, even on the football field? Well, yeah, especially so. I mean, I like to enjoy the game. Sometimes it's difficult when you're getting kicked a bit. But, um...

I've never been one to retaliate, it's just something that's not in me, it's the way I'm made. Plus the fact I've been a bit lucky at times. I don't argue with referees because I think it's a waste of time. I talk to them a little bit and I tell them if I think they're wrong, but I try and do it in a nice way. I think it helps because perhaps that way sometimes you might get a bit of an advantage later on, when we're on a tricky decision for them. So you don't lose your temper, I mean, on the football field, do you ever? lose your temper? Not really, no. I think my wife will back me up on that. Go on, when was the last time you lost your temper? I honestly can't remember. I can remember losing it a few times as a kid, but very rarely since. So will you be calm and contented and patient on the desert island, you know, waiting? Well, hopefully if you go easy with it.

Questions. >>But when you sit on this desert island, what will you think about? Will you think of escape or will you just sit there placidly and enjoy it? >>I should definitely enjoy the sun. Hopefully it's a sunny place, this desert island. And I do enjoy relaxing and swimming and things like that. So I would pass my time doing plenty of those sort of things. >>And how much will you need your music? >>Well, I'm not the greatest music lover in the world. I like what I like. I'm a car radio sort of music fan really. If I'm in the car I like to turn the music up and sing along to it. So I would think I'd pick a few popular sing-along tunes that I know quite well to sort of pass a few evenings. >>Right. Let's pass the first evening. What are you going to play first? >>Well, it's a favourite of mine by Simply Red called Holding Back the Years. I actually

a year or so ago, one of the rare concerts I've seen. I've since met Mick Humpnell, who came out to Sardinia just before the World Cup we met in there, and actually caddied for me as we played golf, would you believe? And so that's my first one. Strangle... ♪ And the wishes of May 10 ♪ ♪ Hoping for the arms of May 10 ♪ Simply read and holding back the years. Age Gary how much does it worry you you're you want nearly 30 yes Although I keep reading the papers, I'm nearly 31, which I don't quite like too much.

And of a world-class striker? - Well, it's difficult, it varies. But once you get into the 30s, then it can happen sort of anytime. I think that you know yourself, or people tell me you know yourself when you can't quite run as fast or you don't last quite so long as you used to. But at the moment I still feel very good. I still think I've got a few years left in life. In me yet. When you were 18, you could run 100 metres in 10 and a half seconds. Yeah, more or less. How long does it take you now? I don't think I could... Run a hundred meters now. I think I trained quite a bit when I was that sort of age but um certainly takes me longer to warm up now than it used to. So it's speed and stamina that goes isn't it? But it seems a bit unfair because of course

can go on forever, can't they? Well, not forever, although Peter Shilton perhaps argued with you. But of course we do have to run around a lot, and particularly probably strikers. They don't perhaps work as hard as, say, a midfield player who has to run up and down all day, but we have to sort of make continual sprints, and that is top-speed running, and you have to recover for the next one and be ready for another one, and repeatedly over a game. So it does take its toll, And that's why we only sort of last till our early 30s, really. Was football always destined to be your career or did you have a choice in those early years? Well, I was, as a kid I was a football fanatic. I used to practice in the garden with my brother. In the winter and in the summer it was always cricket. We used to play all the time, every minute that we possibly could, and of course in winter nights tend to be longer than they are in the summer, so...

Meant coming home from school and not really being able to play. So what we did, we sort of got a load of lamps, all the lamps that were in the house and put them in the upstairs and shone them on the garden, so that kept us going right through the winter. This was with your brother Wayne, who's younger than you? He's a year younger, yes. So what in the end did you have that he didn't? Well, dedication really, because Wayne's a very talented footballer and always was, but he's the sort of person that will do something for a couple of years or even less, and give it his devoted attention and then get fed up with it. But you made a decision that football... Was going to be it for you and you just got down to business? Well I really wanted it to be. Unfortunately I had the natural ability, call it what you may, to help me along my way.

In all of this, did it become apparent that you weren't just really a very good footballer who'd be chosen for all the best local teams and his school team and all this? At what point was it realised that you were a very special talent? I always scored a lot of goals right from a very early age and people around me believed it and I always played in the representative side. For Leicester boys right through. But I never got anywhere near England schools or anything like that. I wasn't an exceptional talent at that age. I just slowly developed really, even after... And the most important time is after you leave school and you join... You do your apprenticeship and you carry on. And that's when I just gradually improved. For every level that I played at, things went OK for me. Each time, to my great surprise. We'll hear about the apprenticeship in a minute, but let's have the second recording. What's that? This is by Booker T and the EMGs. I didn't know the title, I had to look it up to be honest, I didn't know who sung it, but it was... It's the theme tune...

To the music that's played on BBC every time the cricket's on. And it'll remind me of the cricket while I was out there on the desert island. And the MG's and 'So Limbo', that cricketing theme tune. So you might have been a cricketer then, Gary. Well, that we'll never know. I certainly liked playing and played to a reasonable standard as a kid, in Leicestershire schools and Midland schools and things. But football sort of took president, really, and from when...

I left school. But you sound rather like Ian Botham who has also said that he might have been a footballer. I mean I think there are just chaps like you... Who make ordinary men sick really you just can turn your hand to anything that's got a ball in it. I think it's an eye for a ball I think I've certainly got that as a lot of footballers have I mean there's a lot of footballers As are very good cricketers. And you mentioned golf just now as well? I play a little bit of golf when I can, not so clever at golf to be... What's your handicap? Well, I'm not a member anywhere, but I would think it'd be about 16, something like that. It's not bad for a chap who doesn't play much, is it? No, it's difficult. I don't know why it is, but sports and ball sports do come reasonably easy to me. The snooker as well I was very keen on and I managed to get a few hundred breaks, which is nice. I mean, I'm not complaining.

So you might have been a snooker champion, you might have been a cricketer, you are a footballer, you might have ended up of course selling fruit and veg in Leicester if you hadn't been spotted. Now when and how did that happen? Well I think the first I know of it was what my granddad told me. We got home from a game one evening, I was playing for an Alston Park junior team, which I played for every Sunday. I was only probably 12 or 13 at the time and my grandad came home and he said that the chief scout of Leicester was standing on the touchline, a fella he knew, a fella called Ray Shaw and my grandad Who knew him said to him, Well, what are you doing here? Are you watching? He said, Well, I'm watching the young...

I went to Ford over there and it just happened to be me and my grandad who's always been proud was quick to tell us, so that's the first interest that Leicester City shown and from then it went to signing schoolboy forms. I did training twice a week with Leicester after school on Tuesdays and Thursdays for two years and eventually took me on as an apprentice. But did you know about big-time football then, as you say, you were about 12 or 13? I mean, had you been to any big games? Had you been to Wembley? Oh yes. I'd been a big Lester fan, season ticket holders, both my father and myself, and my granddad and my brother. We all went every week to watch Lester at Filbert Street. I remember seeing my first game at Wembley was the final in 69, where Leicester lost 1-0 to Manchester City. I was standing behind the goal that Peter Shilton was in. I was only eight at the time and eventually I...

To room with him with England. I've done for five years. He's a great mate now. He is and we became Roo partners at international level and got to know him really well. We're both Leicester lads. Just a slight difference in age? Just a slight difference. But if if that little boy, Dinica, had been told that day at Wembley that one day he would be Peter Shilton's friend and and be an England superstar, how would he have reacted? I don't think he'd have believed it. Just to see him play was great. The chance to have ever met him or got his autograph would have been fabulous, but to imagine that one day I'd be playing the same England side as him would have been too much to believe, I think. Record number three. Well, this is an old favourite of mine. I'm a big Rod Stewart fan. Actually, I saw him in concert in Barcelona once.

Was great. It's Maggie Mae. Let's do it. Maggie May. So tell me about becoming an apprentice to Leicester City. You were 16 years old. What did you look like? I was very much smaller than I am now. I was only about 5 foot 6 and 9 stone wet through, which always looked to be a big problem for me. What do you mean wet through? Is that how they wear you? Well, after the shower, of course. Oh, I see. Yes. And sweating and things like that you do.

But it always looked like it might be a problem, my weight and size. I was easily knocked off the ball. But they put me on a sort of weight training course and I was fed steaks and given bottles of milk and things by the club and put on a diet. Whether that was the reason I grew to what I am now, I don't know. But, um, although I'm not still the, not the biggest in the world, but I'm something like twelve and a half stone now and fighting.

Foot ten. So how many of you apprentices were there? I think there was nine in my particular year plus six or seven from the previous year. You basically do a two-year apprenticeship and then the manager of the club at the time decides whether he thinks you're good enough or not. But what did you have to do during that apprenticeship? Well apart from new training which you have to do every day usually morning and afternoon you have the messy jobs to do. I personally had the job of cleaning out the first team dressing room which I didn't mind too much because it was sort of contact with with all your heroes. I remember people like Frank Worthington and Keith Weller and Mark Wallington people like that who were great heroes to me. I was sort of picking up their dirty smelly sweaty kit off the floor and stinky socks and things and putting them in baskets and

Taking them to the drying room. They didn't get clean kit every day, they basically put it in the drying room after every training session until the next day. So you can imagine by Thursday and Friday it wasn't smelling too healthy. So all your apprentices were there waiting for that call from the manager to come, which could come at any time or perhaps not come at all? They don't accept money. The two or three may be out of all the apprentices. So do you remember the day the call came for you? I remember it very well. Jock Wallace was the manager at the time and he called me in and he looked a bit serious, as he always did. You always think the worst, but fortunately it was good news for me. And that was a great day. Can you remember the first match you played for Leicester City? Very clearly, because I was awful. It was New Year's Day, 1979. We were playing at Filbert Street at home against Oldham. There was three players making the debut. One was called Bobby Smith, who had just signed from Scotland. Another lad was Dave Buchanan, who was even younger.

Than me and myself those two scored we won two nil and they got all the headlines and I was sort of dropped for four months. Put me on the right wing which I'd never really played. It's often the case when you're a young player they tend to think, Well he looks okay so we'll get him in. But they can't really put you in where you want to play so you end up playing out of position which doesn't really do you any favours and certainly didn't do me any. It was a frosty hard pitch as well I remember and I was being knocked over all the time because as I said at that time I wasn't particularly big. So it didn't look too promising really, this future as a professional footballer? No, not at the time, although I'd have settled for just probably playing a game at the time for the first team. It was a big day and I was very nervous as well, I remember. Shall we have record number four? Why not? Another big favourite, another one I really like to sing along to. Although I won't do that because that would be terrible.

Eric Clapson's Wonderful Tonight. Put your lips on her makeup, and brushes on her lips. Eric Clapton and wonderful tonight. What happened to you subsequently of course Gary Lineker is well documented you played for Leicester City for more than six years and more than a hundred goals and then you made your full debut for England in 1985 and you scored. Well, she played in the Mexico World Cup, 1986, and got the golden boot, because you were the top scorer. Do you still remember every match you've ever played in detail? No, not every match, no. I've played a few hundred now, that'd be...

I think I remember nearly every England match. And I remember nearly every goal I've scored. I'm quite good at that. But it's difficult to remember every game, particularly the bad ones, we try and forget them. How many goals have you scored then in your whole professional career? Well, if you count all the games I've played in as a professional, cup and league and everything, somewhere over that, 250. If you give me about five minutes I could work it out. 250 is quite enough.

Maybe many more yet, of course. - Well, I hope so. We keep trying. - Does the game become, after a certain point, as much a psychological game as a physical game? - Oh, very much so. Particularly as a striker, because a lot of the game, you can perhaps not be involved. Particularly if it's a day where the pressure's on your side and the other team's attacking and you're hanging about the halfway line. Then you have to be ready and you also, on other occasions where the team's pressing a lot, you've got to sort of try and make space, create space to get that vital yard on a defender to get a chance to score the goal. - But it makes you a bit of a predator, really, doesn't it? I mean, you're kind of running up and down, adding it all up, working it all up, and just waiting for that moment. I mean, like a kind of bird that swoops. - Well, that's the idea. I think that the rest of the team have to do all the work, or most of the team, and the strikers are the ones there to really...

Kill it off. So if you're predatory, if you're competitive, which obviously we're saying you have to be on the field, is that contrary to your nature really? Because that's not like you are in ordinary life, is it? It isn't, but I am ambitious as well. I think you can be ambitious and also sort of mild-tempered at the same time. I've always wanted to be the best goalscorer, the top goalscorer. I've always wanted to win the Golden Boots for finishing first-division leading scorer or World Cup leading scorer, play for England. I've always wanted those things very badly and I think that's probably a different thing to sort of having a temper or flaring up. We were talking earlier about the World Cup. 1986 World Cup Mexico and what that did for you of course was apart from get you the golden boot Was it was to seal your move from Everton to Barcelona for 2.2 million? Nevertheless a big decision to move to Spain how big a decision for you Well, it was very big because at the time and I a fabulous

time at Everton and it was difficult to leave although the chance to play at what is one of the biggest clubs in the world and also a nice place to live and of course financially it's also rewarding. At the end of the day it was very very difficult to turn down. You were about to get married weren't you? Yes we were that summer it was a hectic summer actually because we played we played the World Cup we got home got married and within Two days signed for Barcelona, straight after the honeymoon, we were in Barcelona without really knowing what would hit us. But how much of a joint decision was it for you and Michel to decide to go? We kept saying, Should we, shouldn't we, shouldn't we? One of us wouldn't actually say, Well, we should. In the end, we wrote down on separate pieces of paper, Yes or No, and we both put Yes, so it's fairly joint. You had a secret ballot? A secret ballot, yes. Well, now, of course, many a sportsman has gone abroad, not least for the money, and then got very miserable and...

And come home eventually with his tail between his legs. I mean, how did you avoid that happening to you? - Well, I think if you do go there with a view to get there quicker, and if you bob and serve your prison sentence, then you're not going to last too long. If you go there with the idea of making the most of it, to learn the language, learn the culture of the place, and to enjoy it, then I think you're successful. I think all the players that have been successful abroad have gone with that philosophy. But you didn't just learn to communicate at an everyday level.

Did you? You ended up commentating on Spanish television, didn't you? Well, I did, although when I actually went to the studios, I was led to believe I was just sort of doing an analysis type thing with a commentator, but I ended up co-commentating the whole game. It was like a whole conversation of a game I was actually playing as well, which made it even more difficult because they showed it in Spain the day after. And that was a good test because I'd only been there a year or so at the time, and it was a struggle, that was, I must admit. But fortunately, by the time we left, we were both pretty fluent. Record number five. Well, I'm a big Monty Python fan, and... And just to remind me and keep me happy, keep me smiling, I've picked always look on the bright side of life, which is a bit my philosophy as well, I think. When you're feeling in the dumps, don't be silly chumps, just purse your lips and whistle, that's the thing. I

♪ Always look on the bright side of life ♪ Oh The Monty Python team and always look on the bright side of life to make Gary Lineker laugh on his desert island. You could have done with a laugh or two when Johan Cruyff took over as manager of Barcelona couldn't you? You had a rough time. It was a difficult time. When he first came I had hepatitis which didn't help because it meant I missed pre-season and obviously getting to know the new... Manager. But when I did find myself fit again and playing, I was playing in... back in that right wing position where I made my debut for Leicester, which...

Go well then and didn't go so well at Barcelona for me anyway. Why do you think he did it? His idea basically was every player should be able to play in every position if they're good enough. Probably because of the fact that he was so good himself as a player. But of course not everybody can do that, not everybody's as gifted as him. And it didn't work and I didn't enjoy it so in the end, although there was no major flare-ups, no major problems, it was deemed best on both sides that I left. Difficult at the best of times in Barcelona because they're a fickle lot for Spanish supporters aren't they? I mean one minute you're a hero and the next minute they don't know about you. Well over there it's very much black and white. You can be playing well and they'll absolutely adore you. You'll be the greatest thing that they've ever seen and they'll tell you the greatest player that they've ever had in history. And then you can have one bad game and they'll tell you that you're a fickle lad.

...you're a failure and you're no good and vice versa. The nice thing that you always think of, if you're having a spell where you can't score... ...or had gone perhaps five games and not played... Particularly well. You always knew that you only had to have one good game and that had all be forgotten very quickly. But eventually you decided to come home and it was all negotiated. You came home last summer to Spurs for 1.1 million which was exactly half the price you went for, wasn't it? Yes, few more years on you say. You start getting towards the late 20s, the price starts going down. But was it a great relief to be back, to be home? Well, I wasn't desperate to actually come back. I think if one of the big Italian clubs that had come in I would have been more than interested to try Italy, which is a tremendous league. But I've come back, I've signed a four-year contract, so that would seem to take me right to the end. But as we all know, teams can decide to sell players, big offers can come in from abroad and I've certainly wasn't put off by my experience in Spain.

Mind you, we've got to escape from our desert island yet. Come on, what's the sixth record you're going to put on the gramophone there? This is one of my all-time favourites. It's Dire Straits' 'Tunnel of Love'. I put my hand upon a lever Said let it rock and let it roll I had the one and only bandit fever There was an arrow through my heart and my soul And the big wheel came on turning in Neon burning up above And I'm just higher on the world Come on and take a low ride with me, girl On the tunnel of love Dire Straits and Tunnel of Love. And so did this year's World Cup, Gary. It must have been the most enormous disappointment for you not to get to the final, not to mention all of us. Well, it was. I think everybody saw... Our reaction after the game. I think everybody's reaction was the same. It was... it was desperately disappointing.

It was tears in my house, was it tears? I think it was tears everywhere, wasn't it? It was just a desperately disappointing way to lose as well on the awful penalties. But we knew they were the rules before the tournament. It's just not nice when it happens to you. Was there a lot of crying in the dressing room? Yes, there was quite a lot. It was a sad and quiet place. Did you cry? I didn't actually, no. I don't know why. I just felt completely sort of depressed really. and I go quiet when I'm upset. Robson because he always looked so calm and collected whenever we saw shots of him on the television. Does he? Yes. It's probably the one thing he's not. He's not the most calm and collected person. He's very much an enthusiast. Very excitable and gets quite nervous. You looked, it has to be said, you personally, utterly cool when you were taking your penalty shot. Did you really feel that? What does a player feel?

Feel at that moment? Well you don't feel that cool. I suppose it's like the duck bit where you're calm on the surface but flapping like hell underneath. But I think you've got to try and look cool otherwise the goalkeeper will fancy his chances. But I remember the one against Cameron in particular where we were 2-1 down with not too long to go. And I'd actually been taking penalties for five years for England without actually having one. And then to suddenly get one at that particular moment wasn't really that pleasant although I remember when the referee initially blew for it.

Great we're back in the game and then I thought no it's me that's taking it. But do you feel in that moment do you feel sick or ill? Well a few negative thoughts went through my head I must admit I was thinking well if I miss this I'll never allow me back in the country I even thought my brother that gets incredibly uptight when I'm playing anyway let alone in a situation like that. In fact in the end he told me that he was cowering in the corner of a room squinting through sort of clenched fists, but fortunately it went in, as did the...

Following one and also the one in the shootout. But of course other people, other peoples didn't get in. Well it's very much a lottery really, you can practice them, you can not practice them, but when it boils down to it, it's just, it's a bit of luck really. I mean if the goalkeeper guesses the right way then, unless you hit it absolutely perfectly, he's got a chance of saving it and unfortunately that happened to a couple of our players at the end. What about the next World Cup, you'll be what, 33? Will you be too old to play? I don't know at this stage, as I said I think that I know when I can't play as well as I can, or feel as good or feel as fit as I do at the moment. But do you feel determined to be there or do you not?

Well, at the moment, it would be nice to think so, although 33 for a striker is asking a lot. Can you imagine, Gary, ever getting sick of football? Can you ever imagine thinking to yourself, I just can't face going out there and kicking that thing again? Not playing, no, I love playing and I love the thought of scoring a goal, which is my great passion. But certainly training, that's no doubt about that. I'm not the most enthusiastic trainer in the world, basically because it was the pain of playing for so many years with knocks and things. It takes me about half an hour to get going in the mornings. But here's the difficult question. What about Michelle, your wife? I mean, does she get bored with it? Well, not really. She likes to come to the games when we play at home. She didn't know anything about it at the start and probably still doesn't, but still enjoys watching. I think she enjoys it, really. Let's have your next record. - Well, on a desert island, I would think, with or without you is quite appropriate from you.

You too, with or without you. If you've done very well for the game Gary, it's also done very well for you. You're currently earning, I read, about £5,000 a week. Oh, I don't believe everything you read. That's wrong. All right. Well, you're earning enough anyway. What do you spend this all on? Bought a nice house. Saved a bit for... Because, of course, our careers don't last too long, as we've discussed earlier on. So you have to sort of... Plans for the future. But you enjoy your money obviously. Oh I enjoy my life and football's been fabulous to me.

What happens when you do run out of pace and nobody does want to employ you anymore on the football field? What will give you a reason for getting up in the morning? What will you do? I enjoy media work, involved around sport and football. Commentating? Well, things like that, commentating. I've done quite a bit and getting involved with a bit more. So in a way I suppose it goes back to the... Journalistic idea. If you can't do it, that's perhaps the next thing. Being a manager of a football club is not something that appeals, although apparently every player says that. When they're younger. What about managing England? Well I don't think I'd turn that job down but I don't think... Probably give it to me, they usually like somebody with a lot of experience, which is okay but a lot of sides abroad have proved that you can be successful by just going straight to a player, as Germany did with Franz Beckenbauer.

It's possible, who knows? - You sound all in all, I must say, rather saint-like, if you don't mind my saying that. You're very level-headed, you've never been booked, you're happily married, you hardly drink, I think, you don't go out much. - Well, we go out quite a bit to restaurants and things, Club or anything and I do like a glass of wine. But you're a good clean lad. Oh I hope so. But is there a great ball of in discipline inside you that would love to burst out I mean are you kind of controlled because that's how you have to be and that's the job you've chosen to do to make your money. No basically I'm pretty boring I think.

Um, not really. I very, very much enjoy the way I live. I enjoy going out for a meal with my wife. If that's boring or saintly, well, I'm sorry, but that's what I enjoy doing. I enjoy my work and I'm very lucky. Last record. Well, I think I've picked all my favourite bands, which is when I sat down to actually think about it. I not only picked my favourite songs, but I picked all my favourite singers and my favourite bands. And Elton John certainly comes among that category. And my all-time favourite of his is Candle In The Wind.

Elton John and Candle in the Wind. So which of the eight Gary is the one that you really must have more than all the others? Well I'm going to put Booker T in the MG's and Sol Limbo. You'll find out why later on. Oh I see. Well let's have the book next then. There's a... you've got the Bible and... Shakespeare? I want the works of wisdom. It's very crickety this. It is. What about the luxury? It'll get crickettier. That's a word. What's the luxury then? The luxury is a bowling machine. I'm going to stage my own test matches. I figured I could just about make a cricket bat, especially if there's a willow tree on my desert island. And I then have the bowling machine to bowl to me all day. And the music is very good.

To introduce me. and you'll never be caught out? that is true I never thought of that and I won't be given out either. no umpires. Gary Lineker thank you very much indeed for letting us hear your desert island discs. thanks enjoyed it. You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For more podcasts please visit bbc.co.uk/radio4