Hello, I'm Kristy Young and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For rights reasons... You've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in 1984 and the presenter was Roy Plumley. cast away as a distinguished man of the theatre, director, playwright, producer and actor George Miss Abbott, it seems general that most theatrical producers retire at the age of about 90 or... From 1991, but here are you, you're 97 and still going strong and still at it. I enjoy it and I've always enjoyed working.

That's the only reason I can give you. Now what brings you to London on this occasion? On this occasion I came to direct a production of... On your toes, which has just finished a run in New York and On the road there. I remember seeing the the original London production that was what back in about 1937. 1936 was the first production of a play by this name. And it's still going strong. Have you ever visited a desert island? No, I can't say that I have. Do you think you could put up with it for a few weeks? I think I could read just yes. Now you have just eight discs to take with you. Do you play discs alone? No. Have you any musical skill yourself? Do you play the piano? No, no, no. I like to dance. That's as far as I can get. Actor did you have to sing occasionally? Yes I sang cowboy songs in a show that I was in. What was the show?

I couldn't tell you the name of the show, but the song was On the Streets of Laredo. Well, you were at one time a cowboy yourself, which is something you'll get too later. When I was a boy about 14 years old, yes. We'll talk about that in a minute. Let's have your first record. What's that to be? The record is easy to pick and it is falling in love with love. And it can be sung so that it makes no sense, but if it's sung beautifully, it has a beautiful lyric. And it's very moving both in the music and in the words. - And who would you like to sing it? Alan Hanley. She sang it in the New York production. Yes. The Boys from Syracuse.

In love with love from the American musical play The Boys from Syracuse. By Ellen Handley. You in fact wrote the book for that show, didn't you? I did, but it was based upon Shakespeare, so we had a pretty good collaborator. Now you were born in... Small town in upstate New York. Do you remember the very first time you visited a theatre? I do. It was in Cheyenne, Wyoming, and it was a farce about a minister who went to a prize fight and was... Fainting with his fists the next day, and that's all I can remember about. How old were you? Are you one of a large family? No, I had one brother and one sister. Courtesy of your grandfather, you had a lot of Civil War relics to play with. I don't know how you know that. So you used to stage battles. Well, I can remember that we took a note of it.

Civil War musket and bought powder at a store and thought we were going to light it with a match and it's a wonder we didn't blow ourselves up. We're running out of time. Shooting at crows but we never succeeded in getting any ignition. You mentioned to us now Cheyenne, Wyoming. The family moved out, yes? My father became... Government land agent of Wyoming when I was about in the fourth or fifth grade. And we moved to Cheyenne and lived there for five years. Now, Cheyenne was real cowboys in Indian country at that time. My first remembrance is getting off the train, being... Into a hotel and seeing a herd of horses driven down Main Street. In fact, you wept on a run. I did, I spent two summers as a cowboy. - Road fencing and... - Road fence? Also... Drove an unloader? - Yes. - The unloader, it takes the alfalfa and throws it.

Up on top of the heap. And after five years back east to New York? Yes. Yes, I came to my grandfather's home, which was in Hamburg, New York, outside of Buffalo. I lived there one year and then I went to college in Rochester. Rochester, New York. Yes. What was your ambition? What did you want to be? be a writer. I thought journalists had a dandy sound. Right, well, we've got to you at college. All the future before you. Let's have another record. What shall we have now? How about one from Michael? show on your toes called quiet night quiet night from on your toes which I'll tell you the reason is people ask you what is your Favorite show and you haven't any really favorite but you always say the last one. Now On Your Toes is my favorite show and so I must pick a song from that which got neglected.

In the first version because it wasn't part of the plot. Now it has been made part of the plot. Becomes more important. Quiet night from us. Your toes sung by Michael Vitor and the chorus as they sang it in last year's Broadway revival. So getting back to your story you were at the University of Rochester what were you at. The only thing I was good at was what they called English, which was writing. And that's what made me think I was good at.

I liked to be a writer of some sort because I was so bad at everything else. Did you get mixed up in university theatricals? I was a good amateur actor, so I wrote a play to star myself, naturally. Of course. And we performed it at the University of Rochester. Then later I went down to Harvard to take Professor Baker's course. And there I won a prize for my play. Professor Baker's course was in playwriting, wasn't it? Yes, it was. You won an award? I won an award given by a theater there and had my play produced and thought I would... Conquer the world on Broadway and went down and became an actor. ...in a theater in Boston. Yes, that's where I won the prize. At the Bejel Theater. Yes, you're well informed. What were your duties on the staff? Ah, acting, writing... And sweeping up.

No, no they had somebody to do that. I didn't have to do any stage hand work. And when you left the Bijou Theatre, Boston, what was your next job? Well I went to New York and there... Luckily, I got a job in a show fairly soon. The leading lady it was called and Louis Stone was the leading man. Oh yes he was. Great movie actor later wasn't he? I don't remember. Yes he was and that was Your first job in New York. That was my first job in New York. I played a drunken college boy. For a man who never touches alcohol, that's nice. I also, it was very funny. But I claim... Is by observation, not by experience. Right. Now, what's your third record? Oh, it is called Begin the Beguine, and of course it's a big deal.

Success now, but when it came out it was unnoticed. It was in a show which was a failure. A show called Jubilee. According to the... Well, I wouldn't remember that. All I know is that I saw the show and didn't hear the music. And it illustrates how... You have to hear things twice sometimes or have a reason to listen to them. Yes. Song had been so placed in the musical that something was At stake or emotionally involved, I would have remembered it, but I didn't. Who would you like to hear sing it on this occasion? How about one of the greatest of all singers, Frank Sinatra.

Begin the Beguine by Cole Porter from a show that... Didn't do terribly well called Jubilee and it was sung by Frank Sinatra. Mr. Abbott, you worked for some of the great characters in the American theatre, producers like David Bellini. Lasko and Jed Harris, which of them do you remember was... Well Jed Harris was... He wasn't anybody I worked for, he was somebody I helped get started. Really? Belasco I worked for, and he was a real character. Although he was Jewish, he wore a Roman collar, which he affected. And he was a great dramatist with his cast. One time he took an axe and chopped the same...

To pieces and I learned from the stage manager that they decided to change it so he could put on this act of fury to affect us all. He was an actor himself. He was just what they think a theatrical producer is. What was your first play to be done on Broadway? Fall Guy. I wrote it with Jimmy Gleason and I didn't intend to direct it but it was pushed into my hands and so I got a chance to direct also. You've always preferred to collaborate. Rather than write on your own. You've collaborated with a lot of very interesting and fascinating people. I don't think that I preferred it. It just happened that the things that I wrote didn't get sold and the things that I collaborated on did. And Jimmy Gleason and I were in a show together called Dulce. Clinton Fontanne was the leading woman. Yes. And while we were out on the road, we planned to write this...

Oh, and that was how I happened to have a collaborator. You had two big... Successes very early on. Coquette, which was a rather sentimental play, and Broadway, which was a rather tough play, which is still... Different. Mm-hmm. But broadly it was a melodrama and Coquette purported to be a realistic drama. Did you like to direct your own plays? Yes I did. And sometimes play in them as well. By the time I started being a playwright, I quit acting. And how soon did management come into it? How soon did you like to put on your own plays? Oh, I never liked to put on my own shows, but I didn't like managers hanging over my shoulder when I was trying to do something. So I became a manager to get rid of managers. And you've always been a celebrated play doctor. If anyone had a play that didn't quite work, there was something wrong with it.

Sit through it and sort it out. I was rather reckless. I would go in and fix anything practically Sometimes I would get involved and find that there were obstacles I didn't know about, such as they had put... All the people on the run of the play contracts, and not only that, but promised them they'd never change them. The whole play depended upon recasting. So there's not much you can do in those cases? No, there's not much in that case. What was the first- Musical that you became concerned with that was on your toes on your first version Came to me and said they were working on a musical to be called on your toes Which was about a jazz? Dancer getting into ballet. They had already written some of it. Had done the slaughter on 10th avenue which he now told me years later considered the best piece of music he ever wrote.

And so I went to work with them on that. Let's have your fourth record, what's that to be? I'll cheat and get another one from On Your Toes. And this has been a big hit for many, many years. It's a very tender song as... So many of Larry Hart's songs are called Small Hotel.

sung by Christine Andreas and Laura Teeter. And once again, that recording is from last year's New York production. You didn't direct on your toes, did you? I was supposed to direct it, but they kept delaying, so I said... Get someone else and I went south. Then one day, weeks later, Dick Rogers... Called me from Boston, said, We're in terrible trouble. You've got to come up. And I said, No, I've got engagements, and so forth. I gave you my chance. And He said, You're a collaborator, you've got an obligation, you come up here. So I did. I could see what was the matter with the show right away. - What was the matter? - Well, it was unclarified. The director had twisted. ...scenes around so that the audience didn't quite understand the story. And I've forgotten in what detail, but I know that I could fix it in one day.

I was considered a miracle man for the brief time. Was this before it opened in New York? Was this when it was... This was when it was in Boston. I stayed with it for the New York run. - And of course, you have reproduced it several times, haven't you? - No, I've reproduced it in the forties sometimes, but we made some mistakes in character. And we made a mistake in not rewriting it because it was very old-fashioned and in this new production that's been completely rewritten three sets of it taken out for instance and you have directed again yourself. - Yes. - Let's have another record. Five, what now? How about You're Just in Love? From Call Me Madam. Did you have any interest in Call Me Madam? Yes, I directed it. You directed it? Mm-hmm. Yeah, the reason I like this song, I suggested it. We were stuck for a number in the second act.

And I remembered a song of Irving Berlin's called Sing Something Simple which was counterpoint, a slow number against a fast number. So I suggested to him he try to write something like that, came out of it. You don't need analyzing. It is not so surprising that you feel very strange but nice. Your heart goes pitter-patter. I know just what's the matter because I've been there once or twice. Put your head on my shoulder. You need someone who's older. ♪ You're up down with a velvet love ♪ In love from Call Me Madam, sung by Ethel Merman, and Dick Haynes. You've worked with all the

Great composers of the American musical stage were they easy to work with? How did you get on with Irving Berlin? Oh In Berlin, it's one of the sweetest men that ever lived. All composers are not like their music. But Irving is. He's a happy man and he writes happy music. You and he must be pretty well exact contemporaries. Well, we're about the same age, yes. What about Rogers and Hutt? What were they like? They were very different. Was a businessman. He looked as if he were going to the office. But Larry... My heart was a wiggly little man in a wrinkled suit who wanted no... Are the best people. His great poetic streak was hidden under a-- Bohemian exterior. If an extra number was wanted in a score, could they provide it quickly? I think they could. I had an ex-

I had experience once, we were working on Boyce of Syracuse, and Larry came in late and hung over. Dick said, You got that verse? And Larry said, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I did hear it somewhere, and he searched his pockets. Tell that he was faking. So he said, Just give me a minute, I'll go in the other room and I'll remember it. So he went in the other room, came back in about 15 minutes, with some words scrawled on a paper and gave it to Rogers. Dick said, Okay. He went in the other room, stayed about 15 minutes, and came back with the music. Now that may not be the... First they ever wrote but I'm sure it was one of the quickest. I'm sure. What about Cole Porter? Cole Porter was a very effete man, a very Strange man. When he went on the road, for instance, go to the Ritz Hotel in Boston, which most of us think a nice place to live.

He would take his own silk sheets for the bed and his own pictures to hang on the wall. It's rather nice, I mean that's really the way to do it. And he always ate in his room and he invited us up and it was very pleasant. Leonard Bernstein, you've done several shows with him. I'm a town with Leonard Bernstein. At the time, all the people... Involved in that were beginners. Bernstein had never had a show on Broadway, nor... Jerome Robbins nor Oliver Smith nor Compton and Green and So I was kind of Papa to that group and we had a hit which was fortunate And all of them went far thereafter. What is he like from point of view of composer? Does he turn up with everything beautifully orchestrated and ready? Or does he have to be chased? Einstein is a very workman-like fellow. He's on time and he's there with the work and he's willing to

you and all the rest of it. - Oh, there have been so many other musicals you've been connected with. Where's Charlie? A very very funny version of Charlie's own. Where's Charlie was one of the shows I did with Balanchine. See I did four shows with Balanchine and I did... Ten shows with Jerome Robbins as choreographers. And Where's Charlie was... Nothing challenging to balancing, but he was there. And so many others right off the top of one's head. One thinks of the pajama game, Fiorello, funny things. Happened on the way to the Forum? Well, out of that lot, which is your favourite? I think it's nearly impossible to have... Favorite. Sometimes you have one that you don't like because you had troubles with it, but mostly it's the last one that you like best. Well, your next record on the list I've got here is from The Pajama Game. In The Pajama Game, the...

The big hit was Hey There and this needs some explaining as far as the record. Goes. In the show, John Raitt sang to the Dixophone about this girl. That he thought was giving him a hard time. And then he played back his record. And he talked to it and then he sang with it. So both the voices you hear are rapes. You *With the stars in your eyes* You talking to me? ♪ Love never made a fool of you ♪ Not 'til now. ♪ You used to be too wise ♪ Yeah, I was. Once. John Raitt in The Pajama Game.

You regret having given up acting. It's quite a few years since you acted, isn't it? Are you referring to... My return to the stage? Oh, don't you know about that? I played the lead in The Skin of Our Teeth, after I hadn't been on acting for 30 years. - Really? - The government was sending... Helen Hayes and Mary Martin and another character woman whose name I forget to Paris to perform Thornton Wilder's Skin of Our Heart. Thornton Wilder's skin of our teeth and they didn't have a leading man. So we were at a party and suddenly they said, Well, how'd you like to go back on the stage again? I said, I don't know. I was attracted to play with them and so forth. I said, Let me audition myself. So I went out to the country where I lived and I went out to the swimming pool. I learned one of the speeches. And I said it and it sounded all right. I said, All right, I'll do it. And I went to Paris with him and then I was very...

I wanted to play in New York and I went to Washington, Chicago and New York and I stayed with it all summer. You did a television version, didn't you? Oh yes, we did. You have directed some films... Quite a number of them. Oh I had a couple of trips to Hollywood. Last time we made pajama game. But before that you directed quite a lot of the early films when they just started talking and they thought it a good idea to have some people in Hollywood who knew about dialogue I went out there and I worked one winter and I think the only thing anyone would remember was that I did the adaptation to All Quiet in the Western Front. Did you? That was a fine film. Yes, that was a good show. And television, you've directed some television. Just one little... I don't know. What are you going to do next? You're going back to the States having got on your toes safely launched. Oh, I don't know. There are various possibilities.

Responsibilities and that's one thing that's foolish to talk about. Are you still based in New York City? Do you still have your office going? Yes, I have an office with Hal Prince. You see Hal was Stage manager for me originally. And then when he became a producer, he-- Bobby Griffith, I saw that they were fine. And they used my office. Now, time... Goes by and Hal rents me space in his office. You spend quite a lot of time in Florida. In Florida in the winter. One day on a cold, drizzly winter day, I suddenly said to myself, I'm going to I'm going to award you winters in Florida for the rest of your life. - That's the same work-- - I accepted the award. - Except if there's some work about that you want to do. We've got to record number. Oh, we're going to do a funny one for a change. Let's do it. It's got a wonderful lyric to cheer you up. And who's to sing it? Uh, Alistair.

♫ Birds ♫ Even educated fleas do it ♫ ♫ Let's do it ♫ ♫ Let's ♫ *music* A bit sung by Ella Fitzgerald. Mr Abbott, you like cruising, don't you? - I haven't been very many, but I like it, yes. - Yes, I'm just working out the plot of this production, you onto the desert island we can assume that it happened as a result of a cruise. Could you look after yourself? If you took a young version of me, I could get along fine. Done any fishing? I'm not a fish enthusiast, no, but if I'm on the desert island, I'd have to learn. I realize that.

Or live on coconuts. Are you a good cook? I'd be in trouble that way. Would you try to escape? Assuming that a raft was washed up, could you navigate it? Yes, I'm a good swimmer. Yes, you are a good swimmer. In fact, you did once... Saved somebody's life. I did, when I was a boy, yes. I'll tell you why. We call the hired man is that a phrase you use here not really but means a fellow that works for you in the garden or whatever just the one man yes who's Grandfather's hired man and I lured him off to go swimming with a group of us when he ought to have been working. And he saw us all jumping off this raft and swimming, and he suddenly thought he could do that too, and he jumped off and then he... Began to scream and flounder and I was the smallest boy there and the big boys ran you know all waited and watched him and I thought I'll let him go down three times so he can't grab me and then I'll get him because if I go home without him I'm gonna get hell and so I

I swam out and took him and I kept him under water until I got him ashore. He was a big strong fellow, he would have sunk me. And they pulled him over the raft, and he got a lot of slivers in his stomach, and that's the worst that happened to him. - We've got to your last record. - Oh, I think a good way to finish is optimistically with, you gotta have heart. From Damn Yankees. Yes. Adler and Ross wrote it and they had frequently unique titles to their shows, you know. Like Hernandez hideaway and so this is a baseball manager trying to buck up four Discourage players. ♪ You gotta have ♪ *outro music*

♪ Here and a-hold ♪ - You've Gotta Have Heart, sung by Ross Brown and the Ballplayers in Damn Yang. If you could take only one of the eight discs you played as Mr Abbott, which would it be? Falling in love with love. Right. And you're allowed to take one luxury to the island, one object of no practical use, which would give you pleasure to have. Take the writing paper. You did write an autobiography all about 20 years ago. I suppose it's time you updated it. Yes, but I think if you... For a loan on an island to be able to write would be company which would keep you from being lonely and make you feel useless. And one book you already have the Holy Bible and the complete works of Shakespeare name one other book you would like to read Well, I'm pretty well fixed, but I think the thing that would give me the most pleasure would be the encyclopedia. All right, you shall have a good encyclopedia. And thank you.

George Abbott for letting us hear your desert island discs. Well it's been a pleasure. I hope on the island it's just as happy. Goodbye, everyone. Listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For more podcasts, please visit--

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