Hello, I'm Christy Young and this is a download from the Desert Island Discs archive. This edition may be slightly different from what was actually broadcast, but it's the only version we have. It comes from... British Library's radio collection. It was archived without the music, so although the castaways' choices are introduced, they're not part of this recording. Details can be found on the Castaways page on the Desert Island Discs website. The programme was originally broadcast in 1983 and the presenter was Roy Plumley. On our desert island this week is the guitarist and lutenist Julian Bream. Julian, how well could you endure solitude all alone on this wretched island? Well, I probably could, um... ... rather more than a lot of people because... well, in my profession I'm nearly always playing on my own and traveling on my own and for the last

Yes, I've lived right out in the country, away from what would seem ordinary civilised. And I rather enjoy that. I don't think I would enjoy the desert island for too long. Do you think a few discs would help? I think a good few discs would certainly help. Well, just eight. Do you play discs a lot at all? Not a great deal, no. I think one of the reasons is that my low-fi, as opposed to high-fi, it doesn't sound very... Well, so I'm rather loath to play records and they sound awfully scratchy. Did you have any plans? choosing this meagre allowance of just eight discs. Well, I found it very, very hard to do. For example, a composer like Mozart, who I...

Probably adore more than any other. I could have chosen at least 20, 25 pieces. But I've chosen one piece which actually had a tremendous impact on me because it was almost the very first piece of Mozart I ever heard and it was the recording made by the Pro-Arty quartet of the G minor quintet. And this is a piece which it was sort of really love at first sight and I think I adore this piece of Mozart. Than perhaps anything. Do you remember the actual occasion when you heard it for the first time? Yes I do, I was on the radio. It must have been 1945-46 and I was completely entranced as I am today.

The opening of the Mozart Quintet in G minor, a vintage recording by the pro-Arty quartet plus Alfred Hobde. You are a Londoner, aren't you Julian? Very much so, yes. Any music in the family? My father was a good amateur pianist, but he couldn't really read music on the piano. He played marvellously well by ear. Yes. Took up the guitar in the war and he learned a little bit of music but he played quite well on the plectrum guitar he played jazz in fact he played in a Yes, in fact he had his own little group and it was through his influence and particularly the music that he played which was the popular tunes of the period that I really became interested in music. Did he put you to the guitar or did he play you to the guitar?

Did you take his guitar and start to play it? Well, I think actually I took his guitar because you see he worked in the daytime. And sometimes when I wasn't at school, the guitar was always laying around. It was either propped up in a corner or off lying on a chair. And I used to play with this guitar while he was away, of course. Yes. And play with the radio. I used to have the radio blaring on, you know, the sort of workers playtime or whatever. Whatever it was. And I used to love doing that and just strumming the instrument. And My father came home early from work and caught me playing his guitar and I thought he was going to be absolutely furious. I thought he was going to hit the roof. Instead he smiled and said, Well, you know, if you are keen about it, I'll start you off. So he gave his mind to the world.

Yes. There was an eventful day when Dad brought home a Segovia disc. There was indeed. In fact, it was hearing this disc that really got me started onto the classical guitar, because up to then, I was playing or trying to play jazz and popular music. But my father did bring home this record and then for... My eleventh birthday he brought home a little Spanish guitar. Of your very own? For me, yes. It was the most lovely little instrument.

So he started me on that too. Did you ever see Segovia? Not at that time. In fact there was in 1944 a rumour that he died in South America. But he came to England in 1947 and that's when I heard him first. And of course it was simply, well electrifying, simply an incredible experience. You borrowed a pair of binoculars I believe to take to the Wigmore Hall. Yes, well you see it was very difficult in those days to get any really authentic lessons on the guitar. And so I thought the best thing was to... Go to Segovia's recital with a pair of binoculars, so that I could see the sort of intimate workings of his fingers. And actually that worked pretty well. Though I used to get, my arm used to ache rather, because they were very good binoculars, but...

Jumping ahead, you did in fact have a few lessons with him. Well I did, I had one in 1947 and one in 1948, but as valuable as these lessons were, I learned more in fact from just watching him play But you were firmly resolved at this time that you were going to be a professional guitarist? Firmly. I mean, the actual chances of becoming one were very remote. But I... It was something which I loved and I couldn't visualize a life that was without the guitar. But you were learning music in general. You were also learning the piano. I was learning the piano and I was at the Royal College of Music and learning the cello. Now incredible... As it may seem nowadays. I believe at that time the Royal College of Music did not have a course for teaching the guitar. No, they didn't, and not for many years. In fact, there really wasn't a good teacher in the whole country for many years. It wasn't.

Respectable instrument. No, it wasn't. I mean people respected Segovia naturally but they thought he was very much a one-off free. I suppose, which he was. I mean nobody played like him. I mean it was simply fantastic. Do you remember your very first professional engagement, where you were paid any kind of fee at all for performing in public? Well, my first job, in which I got two guineas, was for playing at a private function in London, at the home of Prince and Princess Galitzine. And I remember this very well because I'd lived in the suburbs of London at Hampton-on-Thames.

And it was the first time I'd ever been up to a big West End party. How old were you? I was about 12 or something like that, 13 perhaps. And the effect of this party was incredible. And I was just employed, or asked, to play four or five tunes, which I did. And I remember this very well because there was a lot of food. And you know... In the war we had such little rations and it was absolutely incredible to see all these chickens and plates of beef and so forth. So in fact I ate a great deal after playing and was proud of it.

Very ill. Oh dear. I was rather sad, but I got my two guineas and I thought with two guineas I owned the world. Of course. Well, we've got you launched. Let's have your second record. Well, my second record is a guitarist, but one who had quite an influence on my playing, although he is not a classical player. He is the great French gypsy guitarist Django Reinhardt. And my father collected all his old 78s. And so his music was the very first music that I heard. And there was a lot worse music that I could have heard because... Django at his best I think is a phenomenal musician. It just so happens that as one lovely record of Django not only playing the guitar but also playing the... Which I think is a very unique record. Yes, I had no idea he could play the word.

Well, nor did I. But apparently before, you know, he had this terrible accident with his left hand. Yes. And the third and fourth fingers were paralyzed. He could hardly use those. Well, apparently he did actually play the violin before the accident. But, uh... He gave up the violin and then somebody lent him a violin for this recording. A rare record... In 1942 of Django Reinhardt playing the guitar and the violin. Now you've told us about your first professional engagement under very glamorous circumstances. In fact, the following year you gave your first recital. Yes, that's right, in Cheltenham. This was pretty ambitious. You could only have been, what, fourteen? About that, yes, I suppose. And also the programme was pretty hard that I had.

Chose, I remember being very, very nervous. And for some strange reason, I had to borrow a guitar for that particular concert, and I only had a chance to get used to that instrument, you know, about three or four hours before. So that's, that's, that really was quite a hair-raising concert. It was a challenge. It was, but it went pretty well. And you began to work on the radio. Mmm, very much. In fact, I actually, the year before, appeared on the television. Just as it started up in the Alexandra Palace days. Yes. And I played on that. What was the show? It was, I think, the very first show that, of Music For You, was at the program with Eric Oh, yes. And then I'd done a program that was sent out to Spain, especially being for the overseas service. Then I started by about '47 doing the odd...

Not so much recital, but working mostly on the light program, playing music between the light music units, orchestral concerts. And as soon as you left the Royal College, you were called up for your national service? Yes, that was some time later, when I was about 18. When in fact I went straight from the college, where I had the most marvellous time, really, I loved my college days, straight into the army, which were the most hideous and awful days of my life. In fact, I went just to the extremes in about two weeks. But you did. Get some music making while you're in uniform. Oh yes I did. Not initially. I was actually put into the pay call and I had to do sort of infantry training for a couple of months. But then eventually I managed to get out of that. I had one or two friends who had a little bit of a...

And that works magic in the army you know, you've got to have a bit of influence and I and luckily I was pulled out of the pay corps and put into the Royal Artillery Band. Yes. And of course it was a bit difficult to really get into that because you can't play the guitar on the march quite. What were you playing? Well in fact I did all sorts of odd jobs in the Royal Artillery Band, but I did occasionally play the cello in the mess orchestra. I then occasionally, well in fact quite often, played the jazz guitar. I took up jazz again and I took up the electric guitar no less. And I rather enjoyed that. I must say. I mean, I just didn't like the being on parade every morning. But eventually I managed to live out. I managed to work it that I could live in a flat in London, in West End.

And then I had a little van and I used to drive down to Woolwich every morning for the parade. And I mean, eventually I found a... As they say in the army, cushy number. I see. According to my figures, you were in the army for about three and a half years. Well, you were in the... - Supposed to be in about 18 months, weren't you? - Well, two years. But you see, in order to get into the Army Band, I had to sign on for 21 years. We should have still been there. No, not quite actually Roy, but it was a frightening thing to sign a piece of... Which says 21 years with the colours, but with the option of getting out every three.

And I didn't waste a day. So I did six months in the pay court and then I had to do three years as a regular soldier. That accounts for your military bearing. That's it. Let's have your third record. Well now, as I mentioned, I became interested in jazz again. I was about 18 or 19. One of the groups that I loved, that I thought was in its way, you know, just as remarkable as the pro-artic one, But in jazz was the Benny Goodman quintet and they were recording in the mid-faulters and not only Goodman, but I think his personnel are absolutely terrific. I mean, for example, Teddy Wilson, I thought, was the most wonderful pianist, and Slam Stewart on the...

Bass and there's a Murray Fell drums and I think Red Norvo is as good for my money as Lionel Hampton as you will hear. And this is After You've Gone played by the Benny Goodman Quintet. After you've gone by the Benny Goodman Quintet, you'd become fascinated by early music. You used to go and work in the British Museum digging up old manuscripts. Yes, in fact I had been fascinated by Elizabethan history at school, particularly the poetry. I loved the poetry and it became sort of natural. In a sense to me, to find the music of that period too. And it just so happened that one of the most influential instruments at that time was the lute. And of course a great deal of music was written for it in the Elizabethan dynasty.

Now the lute isn't something that one sees every day. Where does one get a lute? You may well ask. Well at that time it was very hard, although these days there are a tremendous number of lute makers. Are there? Oh fantastic, I mean you could probably find at least 25 lute makers who make good lutes, well some better than others. But at the time I took up the lute there wasn't a maker except Dolmecz who made nice-looking instruments but they never sounded very pleasing at least to my ears. I was very fortunate to meet the famous harpsichord maker Tom Gough. Oh yes, I remember him. Who was an extraordinary person and a great character and when I mentioned

to him that I wanted to get a lute. He then suggested that he might build one, and in fact he did. And it was pretty good, although I in fact played for many years the second instrument that he built. But he built all sorts of instruments. He built clavichords, and of course he's famous for his harpsichords too. But there was another instrument. That he built, which I thought was quite an amusing and a rather lovely instrument too, and it was called a Bible Regal. Well now, the Bible will read good, looks like a huge bubble. I mean about five times the Gutenberg size.

And as though you're going to open it up, you turn the cover back, beautifully tooled leather cover, you see, and then there is a little keyboard. And to the left there are some hand bellows, and you work these bellows up and down and produce enough wind to set off... This little organ. And I spent many evenings with Tom Goff and he had a very remarkable circle of friends who, apart from anything else, I mean they were very good amateur musicians and after dinner we would then go to the first floor of his beautiful house in, well not

Beautiful but remarkable house in Ponce Street. And then we would play after dinner for an hour or an hour and a half on the harpsichords or the Bible Regals or whatever. Some of the music that we played on the two, we had two Bible Regals. Well, the Persol Sonatas in four parts, we did two parts on the Bible Regals and two parts on the one Harpsichord. I can remember these pieces so well and I thought at the time, you know, of course it was a sad sound these Bible reagles, particularly if you ran out of breath, you know, it was really very sad. And I thought that surely these pieces must sound much better than this because I thought they were rather dull. Well now the girl who leads my consort, my early music consort, Catherine McIntosh, sent me a tape of her and Monica Huggett playing these sonatas and I hadn't heard them for about 20 years. And you know, hearing these...

I was simply staggered how beautiful the music is and actually how well they play too and how nice these old violins sound after modern violins. There's a sort of gentleness about the music and an aristocratic quality which I find really quite fascinating. lot of time on your own when you're travelling, you are in fact very much your own man. You like to fix all the details of your tours yourself. Yes, so that is largely because these days I find it very important to the halls and be aware of the acoustical properties of the halls because the guitar is such a quiet instrument it's so intimate and some of the halls that I am asked to play in...

Can be too large for it and therefore now I know roughly in Europe or America the halls that are good for the instrument. Then plan my own sort of tour. Yes. And I found that this has made my life considerably happier. You try not to... To for watching. Are that you're not going to make it. And I think that's very unfair on the local promoters. And you like to get a bit of practice in before... Yes, I have rather sort of clumsy fingers, so I have to do quite a bit of practice. And I like the whole idea of getting to a place and settling down and then preparing the concert properly.

And so I generally play every other night. What happens if you break a nail? Now this must be the one thing that a guitarist worries about more than anything else. It is. It's a very worrying problem. The great thing is not to break a nail. And so I do a lot of things that I would normally do with my right hand, I'd do with my left hand. I've trained myself to do it that way. You can use false notes. Can you? Do you travel a pair of falsies? I've got a box of false nails in my guitar case. If you do a rather loud chord, they fly off. - Like using a plectrum, I suppose. - Yes, that's right. And once it flew off into the face of a lady in the front row, and she was very upset. And so I've not used false nails.

Since then. But one, I'm very lucky in a sense, because I take care and it happens only perhaps once in two years that I have an accident. But it's, it's always at the We've got to record number five Julian, what's that? Well, I'm very very fond of the music of Berlioz. There are several Berlioz pieces that I would want to take and I found it jolly hard to sort one out. At the moment I'm very very fond of Harold in Italy. I think it is the most remarkable piece and what I find so attractive and wonderful Is the immense imagination that Berlioz had for colour, and the passion that drives his music along, and the energy, and the great romantic edifice of his music.

By Lauren Marzel and Robert Vernon, the solo viola. How do you plan your year Julian? Well, I actually play the old Fashion season which is sort of October to the end of April. Of course These days it's changed because there are so many festivals in the summer that of course if one wanted... One could play all the year round. In fact, many artists do. But you see, if you're a guitarist and a lutionist, you have to spend a lot of time either doing research, particularly in early music, or learning new pieces. For example, I've always got a number of new works on the go that I've either commissioned or have been commissioned on my behalf. Right now, I'm working on a new piece that Sir Michael Tippett is writing for me. And, you know, that will take a lot of time.

Lot of work and the summer's a very good time to do that. And I also like to work at one project for a stretch. Example like learning a new piece. I'd like to do nothing else but that piece for a week, initially, to get it underway. And also living out in the country, in England in particular, it seems... That the summer really is the delightful time to be there. And so I work like mad in the winter and create enough income as it were so that I can rest in the summer. But I'm not resting because I'm often making a record, my recordings as you probably know are done in a little chapel. Miles away from where I live. And so I'm recording, I'm learning new pieces. And also happily playing a bit of cricket and things like that or doing a bit of gardening.

You very often go to the Aldebaran Festival. Well that is one festival that I do go to. That is simply because... Well, I've always gone to it and I've always loved the Alburgh Festival, but I don't go quite so much now. And of course, in the past I've done a lot of work with Peter Pears at Alburgh. In fact, I mean, that's been one of the most enjoyable musical relationships that I've ever had. I mean, to do all these beautiful Elizabethan lute songs with an artist such as Peter has been extraordinary. For me. And so I've always had a special affection for Peter and the Opera Festival too.

I would always like to remember that on my desert island. And for that reason I'd like to play a very beautiful song, one of the most beautiful, in fact, of the English songs of the Elizabethan times. And it's by John Darland. If my complaints A dull and lute song, if my complaints in which you are playing with Peter Pears. How much time do you get to go out on tour with your consort? Well, we try and do a lot of things. Little tour each year. There's six of you. There's six, yes, right. It's something I look forward to very much. And we generally go towards the end of the summer, September. Which is a very nice time to travel and it's the only time when I really play chamber music and it's so refreshing to do so.

You've all played together for a long time. Yes. You've got your own jokes. Oh, yes, that's right. Although Robert Tear, who comes along with us, Has a whole lot of new ones each season. He really does keep us rocking with laughter. And we have a lovely time and we're playing all this beautiful old music and it's something that I look forward to so much. But then of course after the console then I have to start off on my US tour, because I go every October to the US tour. There's a recent book about you written by Tony Palmer, but there's a great deal of it by you in the first person. Done. Did he travel around with you? Yes he did, not for all the tours of that year. But he certainly did travel around on several trips and he just used a tape machine.

On some occasions I remember that, you know, I will be driving and he was asking me questions and I was driving... At the same time and giving him the answers. Why did you do it that way instead of you writing it? Well, you know, I see... Things through my own eyes and I've been giving concerts for so many years now. Things I just accept as normal. But you know another pair of eyes can say... Sometimes the fatuousness of certain things and also I think a book of this nature has got to have pace and it needs somebody of Palmer's ability to be able to get the framework of the book together so That everything hangs together well and has a sort of racy pace to it. Because I wanted the book to be about...

Now and what I'm doing and how it all works. And that's why I didn't write it myself. Record number seven. We've just heard this beautiful love song of John Darland, and I think next to Darland in many ways, some of the most beautiful love songs were those composed by Lennon and McCartney. I was always an avid fan of John Darland. And other Beatles from the very beginning almost. And I used to buy every record they made. I mean, even the singles when they came out. And when you... Get to know their music it really is extraordinary how not only beautiful it is but how very remarkable it is in really There are musical values. I mean, I'm talking now about the words and the setting of the words. And the harmony and the topicalness of it and the raciness of it and...

It's all about now, and yet their love songs are extremely tender. The Beatles, here, there and everywhere. You're on this desert island a question that has to be asked how well could you look after yourself? Could you cope could you build a shelter? I think I possibly could It would take me time to be able to get into a position of desperation that would an- With me to do it. I tend to be rather lazy as a person. Matters other than musicals. Well your cricketing love should help you in getting coconuts done. That's right. Can you fish? No I've never fished. If I was desperate, I would obviously try. Do you know anything about navigation? Could you handle a small boat, a raft? Yes, I mean I have navigated on a small sailing vessel around the Aegean Islands. But then I had instruments then. But without any instruments, it's jolly hard to do.

Yes, you've got the Sun, the stars, the Moon... Yes, that's right. Do you know which is which? I've got a rough idea. I think I'd probably make a fool of myself and be beached fairly often, but I think I'd get round an island. Good. What's your last record? Now my last record is a piece by Schubert, who in a way I love more than perhaps any other composer. And although I'd love to have met Beethoven and Mozart and Haydn, the person that I would really love to have met was Schubert. From his music, he must have been the most wonderful person. And the piece that I have chosen is the Quartet Sat in C minor, which is...

I think a remarkable piece because it is obviously an unfinished quartet and he got as far as the first movement and a few bars at the second and just left it but it seems to have such drama And pathos and it has that lovely limpid romantic quality which is so typical of Schubert in his very mature quartets. This is after all he was quite young when he wrote this but this has that sort of freshness the spring colour which I find absolutely enticing and I think it's a marvellous performance this. By the Weller Quartet. I think it's got all the drama and then the lyricism when it's required. Beautiful piece. The beginning of the Schubert quartets in C minor played by the...

Weller Quartet. If you could take only one disc out of your eight, which would it be? I'd take the Schubert Quartet Zatz. Right. And you're allowed one luxury, Julian, just one object of no practical use, which would give you pleasure to have on the island. Yeah, that's difficult. Would you say to have some writing materials was a luxury? Yes, that's perfectly justified. You can have all the writing materials that you like. Yeah, well now that would be marvellous because I've always... To write some poetry and I've never yet been in the sort of frame of mind to be able to get down to it and do it. As indeed to write some more music. I've written a bit, but I've, you know, it's something that I want to do more of. And I think that on a desert island, I would have the silence.

And the repose. And you may choose one book, you already have the complete works of Shakespeare and you have the Authorized Bible. You may choose one other book or one other work. The book that gives me immense pleasure and satisfaction is that Chinese book, the Book of Changes, called the I Ching. Yes. It's the poetry of that book and also It's the natural philosophy which intrigues me. My god, on a desert island, it would be pretty natural, wouldn't it? And the other thing is that it's a useful book, it's an oracle really. And once you learn how to read it, I mean, you can in a sense get a feeling of the future, what's going to happen. And who knows, there may be some...

Boat or something that may be able to rescue me that I could find out from this oracle. But it is a book which would give me probably more pleasure than any other. And thank you Julian Bream for letting us hear your desert island disc. Pleasure, thank you. Goodbye everyone.