Hello, I'm Kristy Young and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For rights reasons, we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in 1980 and the presenter was Roy Plumley. This week, our castaway is the soprano Renata Scotto. Do play... What do you play? Not a lot, but I play some. Sometimes when I... Especially when I want to relax, I play some record, but classic music, not singing. Because I sing and I want to get away from singing. Well now you've got just eight on your island. What's the first one you've chosen?

I chose the arabesque of Schumann played by the best pianist, I mean for me and I think for everybody, but especially for me. I had the best moment in my life when I heard Orowitz give a concert. And the first piece he played was Arabesque. I feel my body like it went out from earth and it was in heaven. So this arabesque is for me something that I can't really explain what is it, but something that takes me away from everybody and everything.

Horowitz playing Schumann's arabesque. Now Renata you were born in Italy in Savona is that on the coast? Yes is near to the French coast is a Beautiful small town. I only lived there... I was born there and my parents are still there but I left my town when I was only 14, 13, 14 because I went to Milano. It's not a pleasant place to spend your time. But of course when you were very small the war was on did you suffer very much from the war in Sabona?

the war we went to a little place in the mountain near to Savona and by was very little and I remember just as Dream but I don't... You know my father is a policeman, retired... Policeman, of course, now, but during the war he had to stay in the city. So we were with my mother in the little... In the mountains. Are you one of a large family? Have you a lot of brothers? No, no, small family. I have only one sister older than me. And a musical family? Musical in amateur sense. I mean, in my family all the love music and especially opera. Savona is a little provincial town. We had a little theater and all my family used to go to the opera once a year. So when I start to sing I was a very, very, very little girl. My house had a terrace.

And I used to be a prima donna even four years old because I went out in the terrace and sing. and You know, the little house we have in Italy, which the terrace, almost you can touch the neighbour because it's so close to the people, the neighbour. So the neighbors called me, Renata, sing, sing! And I sang and they gave me candy. So, see, I always have been a primadonna. You had your own little stage on the terrace. Yes, yes, the terrace was my stage. How old were you when you first went to the opera? I was about 11, 12 years old. The war was finished and I went to... Savona and as I said my family all they like to go to the opera and my first opera I saw was

Yes. Do you remember him? I remember Tito Gobi. Tito Gobi, oh. And I was crazy about him. I remember I came, I went home and I wanted to put the hump on my back and play the part of Rigoletto. In front of the mirror and I was shocked by the regulator and that opera so I could never forget. Really, it was when you started to want to be an opera singer. Fortunately I had an uncle, which he was like, even more like a father for me, and he helped me and wanted me to... To go to Milano, he put me in college and he wanted me to study and to become what I became. Well, that was a momentous time in your life. So let's break there for your second record. What's that to be? There is a pen

which I always loved very much and is Aureliano Pertile, which is fantastic because it gave Words, meaning and with wonderful style and voice. I like... Especially in the area from La Fedora, Amortivieta. I would like very much to hear that.

♪ Peter ♪ Singing Amore Tivieta from Giordano's Fedora. I believe you did very well at the Milan Conservatoire. I think so. I mean, I study very, very well. Hard for four years because I made my W.I. also only 18 years. Were you ever a mezzo when you first went to college? Yes, because when I made my first audition, the teacher I had in the Savona said that I was a mezzo. So I went to Milano and I started to study as a mezzo. But then... They said I was too young to really see what was my voice and studying with another teacher.

I said no I was a soprano so I only studied for a few months as a major then I started to study as a soprano. And your first professional appearance at 18. Yes. Was violeta entraviata? Can you believe that? That's an incredibly difficult part. Yes, difficult. And I really I think at that time I didn't know now I know how difficult it is, but you know 18 years old Just have the courage to go in And where was your debut? My debut was in Savona. Ah, the hometown.

And I have friends and enemies, of course. The theatre was full to see what was. The star is born. Born good, born not good. So the people, the audience was shared. Half they said, No, she can't be good. And the others said, Yes, maybe she will be good. And so I finally decided I was good. Well, that's fine. And what was the next engagement? Then I had a competition after my debut. I won a competition in Milano and I started my real career in Milano and I won the competition and I made a formal debut with Traviata again. That was the Teatro Nuova. Teatro Nuova, yes. When did you mount the ladder to the big theater, to La Scala? I had the opportunity the same year of my debut because they had an opening night with

Lavalley and of course in Lavalley the title was Renata Tebaldi and Mario Del Monaco but it was a coloratura part, very difficult and I went to Lascala and I make an audition also because I was only 19 and very young to go in Lascala it was a moment of I mean, very important and many times, you know. 19 years old. A triumph! In one way, I think yes, because it's so unusual to have a 19 years old girl singing La Scala and the part was... Very difficult. So I had my debut in La Scala, but then I stayed far from La Scala for at least four years. You were offered a contract there, I believe, but you...

It better to play bigger parts? Yes, to have experience in a small theatre with the big part, with a title role. Not small part in the big theatre, but big part in the small theatre. So I had my experience and I came back in Lascala as a prima donna. We've got to record three, what's that going to be? I'm very romantic and as I said before I love Horowitz and I would like to hear from Horowitz a notturno, Chopin notturno. As I said I'm very romantic and nobody can play better than Horowitz, a notturno Chopin. you

Horovitz playing a Chopin Nocturne in E flat Opus 9 number 2. You came to London very early in your career, didn't you? Yes. You know, I came in London... And I sang in a theatre that doesn't exist anymore. Sadly. Yes, it was a stall theatre. What parts did you sing? I remember that I sang there an opera that I didn't sing anymore because my repertoire is so large, but that opera never sang after it was Don Giovanni.

In the world. And I also sang El Isidro da More by Sonam Bula. and... Of the art, I think. It was in these islands, north of the border, that you had your big opportunity. Yes, in Edinburgh. About that, the story of that night? Ah, that is unforgettable because... For me it was the magic moment because I had my big chance. Because La Scala went to Edinburgh in 1957 in Tourne. But I left Milano as a cover. As an understudy. Yes, understudy. In America they said cover. So, understudy. Okay. And so I went to Edinburgh, but I was shooting...

Could not sing, you know, just to go and maybe, maybe, chance. Be there if you wanted. Maybe, but I was sure that never that chance came to me. So I had to replace the last moment Maria Callas in La Sonnambula and I remember was really a magic moment. Something happened when I went on stage an evening with fire, you know, because people wanted Maria Callas and a young girl went on stage instead. So what's happened now? You know, you feel that. But I was so strong and so... Cure and so fighting the audience and I said I'm here I want to be better because if you don't

Don't think this, you can't have the courage to go out and fight against a big name like Maria Kala was at that moment. So I prayed. I don't know what I did, but I went on stage and the first thing I had was an applause from the audience. Before, to open my mouth. So that make me relax completely and start. And I really had my magic moment. Because from that on my career started. Are you asked to sing La Sonnambula at La Scala? Yes, the year after I sang La Sonnambula in La Scala and two years I sang. So you are now a fully fledged international star.

But about Sonambula, I think I sang Sonambula in every theater in the world, I think. Another record, number four. Watch this. Oh, this is a special record because when I heard this, I was with some friend of mine, which was a Have a wonderful evening and my husband was with me and I love to hear the finale of... Tristan is old and is old. Sang by Kisten Flagstad, but conduct by third thing.

The closing passage of the Liebestod from Wagner's Tristan and Isolde, Kirsten Flagstod and the Philharmonia Orchestra conducted by Wurtwängler. Now we've talked about your operatic career. How important to you is concert hall work? Oh, I love concert. I love very much. What do you like to sing? Especially I like to sing Italian composer in chamber music. You know, there are many, many Italian composers, they wrote music, songs that...

Nobody knows because everybody seeing German leader but it's almost neglected the Italian leader which I think is a big repertoire from Scarlatti, Vivaldi, Carissimi, Monteverdi, true the verismo composer Verdi, Bellini and Rossini and true Even Catalani and Puccini wrote chamber music and in all my recitals I prefer to sing Italian composas also some French which I love In the opera house too you like to be venturesome. I believe you had quite a dispute with the management of the Metropolitan Because they wanted you to go on and sing the same old roles. You like to expand your repertoire. Oh yes, all the time, because I think an audience for me wants always... Some new... I mean I want to give to my audience every year one new...

How many roles have you? I think I have about 70 or 80 roles. Because the first 10 years of my career is now 22 or 23. 23 years I sing and the first 10 years I had to sing what they want, what the theater want, but the second 10 years I sang what I wanted to sing. So this is the most important part of me to sing what I want and I choose every year one opera that I like to sing. Next year I will sing an opera which I think about five years maybe, will be Macbeth and I will see you at Covent Garden a new production, Lady Machel.

Of Verdi? Yes. We've got to record number five, where do we go now? Sometimes I like to hear music also, pop music, light music, and especially I like the Beatles. I think they're very interesting and they wrote wonderful pop music. Now there's no more... Like the Stowe Theatre? Yes. But there's actually one song that I like and I also sing. And it is Yesterday.

Yesterday by the Beatles. Where is your home now Renata? Ah, that's a good question. Because I have a home in Italy. Still in Savona? No, no. I married a Mantovano, so I have a house in Mantova. It's a beautiful city in the north of Italy. But I live in United States, I live in New York most of the time. I have my family there and I have a house in the country near to New York.

And used to be in the orchestra at La Scala? Yes, I met him in La Scala. He was playing violin in the orchestra. And then after eight years, he preferred to lead the orchestra, to be always with me. And, you know, he is also a conductor and he works all the time with me and he travels a lot with me. He's also my teacher, my advisor, especially, because for a singer it's very important to have a... Husband, musician. And you have two children? Yes, I have two children. Where are they at school? In New York. I have a boy, eight years old, and a daughter of eleven years old. How much time do you practice ordinary? Oh, a lot, because I think voice...

For a thing is like legs for a dancer, hands for a pianist. I have to practice a lot and at least, I think every day, two hours. At least two hours. A great deal of your work... In the recording studio, and that usually means coming to London, doesn't it? Yes, yes. I'm so happy about this, because every summer I spend the summer in London. I'm here now for the recording of Traviata, is my second one, because I did one twelve years ago. And this one is very, very important, as always the second record, because you know, you have to do better than the first one. And so I do this Traviata.

And then I will do Tosca and Segrito di Susanna, so I'm staying all summer. Oh, that nice little one-act opera of Volferrari. Yes, Volferrari opera. Which are your favourites out of all the records you've made, which must be a very large number now? You know, every time I make a record, I'm always looking for a record. It's a real piece of my life going that and every record has to be the best performance you give because it stays forever and every time you listen you have to say it's good because otherwise you come crazy. But there are some... The last I made is Norma and I think this one is the one I prefer. And Norma also because I think it's the best opera ever wrote by any composer. It's a classic. Norma isn't one of the most popular operas.

That you've chosen for your island. I know you're going to play one of your own recordings next. What's that? - Yes, if I would be in Ireland. Desert, alone, so I would sing Sola perduta abandonata means alone, lost, abandoned. And so I die because I'm thirsty. I'm cold. Help, help! But nobody comes. So this is the right area to sing in a desert island. From? From Manon Lescaut, the last act of Manon Lescaut, she really died in a Is that... ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ The love ♪

♪ There's an apple ♪ ♪ Oh, love ♪ Your own record of poor man on Lascaux dying in the desert. You've said that you have a belief that you have a spirit. Guide that that is the shade of Maria Malle Brandt, the great soprano who died in 1836,

You really feel you are influenced by her? If you believe in those things, yes. I think I felt from the first moment, especially when I sang Sonambola in Edinburgh, I think Maria Maribram was with me. I'm very religious, and I really believe in God. And I pray a lot. And I think we have always somebody close to us to help us in the... Very important moment of our life. Well that was a very important moment for you and yes you were indeed. And there was other very important moment like that. I mean that was on stage but in life which is also more important you need to have somebody close to you. Now we've got to record number seven, what's that? Of course you know already I...

We're back with them. What's he playing? I want to go to heaven. And I like the human. Of course, I'm the-- Island. And I like to dream. So I choose the Tramurai.

>>Horovitz playing Traumerei, dreaming from Schumann's scenes of childhood. Are you a practical person? Could you look after yourself on an island? >>Yes, very practical. >>You could build some kind of shelter, leaves or whatever. >>Oh, mama mia, I'm not so sure. I think, I think yes, but sometime I feel that I'm not able to do anything. You see, I have a long talk with my husband because he said to me, you want to match from life because you want to take care of the children. You want to take care of house and sing and everything. You can't. You can't. And I say, Yes!

I can't, I want to take care of everything because I have a power to take care of everything. And then there are moments I say, no, I can't, I'm not able to do anything. Maybe sing. You know, that's... Now you told me... That your uncle, the one who was so kind and helped you, was a fisherman. Oh yes. So he taught you to fish, did he? Yes. Oh that's very useful. You're going to get food. See, if I had a fishing rod with me, I can fish. I can be the happiest person in my life, because I always love to go to fish. Would you try to escape? Yes, but to go to where? In the water. Then I get cold. Then comes night. So no, I prefer to stay in Ireland. Stay where you are and we'll do our best to rescue you. Your last record now.

This also, an aria, which I think is one of my records which I prefer, other than Norma, is Adriana le Cuvre. And I like the aria in the last act, Poveri Fiori. And it finishes with the word tutto e finito, everything is finished.

♪ Erin marthi ♪ ♪ O, giamanthe ♪ ♪ Qua e dumeti ♪ ♪ The wind ♪ ♪ A car ♪ Your recording of... Poor little flowers from Adriana, Lecouvre by Chilea. If you could take only one disc out of the H-U-Platus, which would it be? Let me think. Because I'm in a desert island, and I don't want to die.

So I think I want to keep it Manolo's call solo perduta abandonata and scream I don't want to die. I promise you we won't abandon you and One luxury to take with you nothing of any purpose Practical use? My dream is a Rolls Royce. Just to sit in? Yes, just to sit in a warm place, in a luxury place, and a Rolls Royce is nothing better than a Rolls Royce. Yes, I didn't like this bit about luxury you will have to promise not to live in it in fact we'll make sure we'll give you an open role choice oh that's very mean give me this silver shadow yes indeed okay And one book apart from the Bible and Shakespeare and not a big encyclopedia please. The book I have to take with me, La Divina Commedia. The Divine Comedy of Jesus. Dante. You shall have a very handsomely bound copy indeed.

Thank you Renata Scotto for letting us hear your desert island disc. Oh, thank you very much, you're very nice. I was very happy to be here. I don't want to die. We'll try to avoid that at all costs. Goodbye, everyone. listening to a podcast from the desert islandists archive. For more podcasts, please visit BBC.co.uk/radio and I'll see you next time.