Pvc sounds music, radio broadcasts, hallo, unlearned event, and this is the desert island discs. Podcast. Every week I ask my guest to choose the eight tracks book and luxury they want to take with them if they were cast away to a desert island for rights reasons the music is water down the original broadcast. I hope you enjoy listening. my castaway this week, its anita alain she made history recently when she became the forty first master of Jesus college. Cambridge and in situation dating back to the fifteenth century she's the first woman to hold the post and most significantly the first black master of any oxbridge

college. She is, however, use to making change she, the seal on co, founder of the media production house, something else a company at the forefront of the digital revolution in broadcasting, she's a former board member of the BBC trust the london. legacy development cooperation and the radio academy. Her media career grew out of a lifelong love of music, especially Jas and her. to find out what happens when you improvise isn't confined to her record collection? She says I, I was trying to make something happened for myself rather than waiting for someone to give me permission, you can't wait people to notice you, you have to have agency senator alain welcome to desert island discs. Thank you. Thank you very much for having made being here is harder than childbirth, pick your music for your life is really hard. Let's just keep reading matter, it's gonna be ok. So, let's start than with him point of the idea of agency. What is it, what does it mean to you and why does it matter? Agency represents law,

things represents that moment when you realise that your life is in your hands, is to my when you can look around you and you can see all the things that stack up against you and you still think your life is in your hands. It's about taking knox and thinking Hey. I've got a problem. How am I going to get round this one? It so we it so embedded in us as human beings. I think agency was there a moment at a right, for you think I've always had a push which has always been there through my childhood. I've been there stole work standing there. I would say a little bit stubbornly, but you know the standing there going, I'm I'm leaning in I'm going for it. I think them for me was I shall not cambridge. I there too do compete. Science was in days when you

do you, computer science, for three years, because it was deemed to be something that would study for three years, and I went next. Those really interested, not fish, intelligence and very interesting philosophy, and I did philosophy for the first year and when I got summer run my parents to sit on wednesday with philosophy. I'm not gonna do an artificial intelligence and he was one of those moments when you imagine you getting off to mit and that always closing and your opening a doorway I don't know, what's gonna happen, that was quite exciting, will come back to that. Your point men at cambridge, made headlines. Why did you want the job? I wanted the job because I enjoyed my time at cambridge, but it was one has jobs where I went for thinking. I'm gonna make headlines doing this because that's not what life is about. You go for jobs. Looking very practical issues like as the community law and I'm going to be joining. Is it somewhere where we want your family to be for ten years? Is a good adventure and he's not

the buildings. Cambridge is very beautiful, but you don't talk to a fifteenth century wool ass. He talked to the person who works there, it's time to go to the music. It's big tough task fee to choose your eight discs today. I know tell us about your first. What are we gonna here and why is this made the cup? Well, this is gary. thoughts and anti. You troop I've, no rivers, its place in the pine by langston use. This is made the cut because it's a fundamental piece of music. For me, I love jazz. Gas has been a constant throughout my life. This is about journeys that connect people, we all then we'll take them and for me the notion of knowing rivers, rivers, which kind of flow through the world the already connected, and that take your places. I think that's what he really excellent. I quite melodic piece of music. I don't mind discordant, I think that sometimes in life's journeys you need a little bit of rapids

a little bit of unsettling too much smooth is not a good thing. So, a little bit of rapid in rivers and your journey through life, I think, is very, very important, and this for me, though, that connection I scanned the canoe have had.

Were now mary, Mary guy and Australia, south unawares by Gary. Perhaps and enter EU troop. I've known with as such

need to remain. Both cambridge and oxford. Universities as a whole have been criticised for the low numbers of bee emmi students being given places now. Cambridge blacks. now number around three percent of new undergraduates. Twenty six point: eight percent be Amy students in total, isn't real change needed in the application process. What you mean by that? The entrance requirement for students is three. A stars so wound that inevitably disadvantage. Students from state schools, in particular parts from disadvantaged areas and schools that don't have as many facilities is the counterpart of those kids who advocated. I think this conversation to be had around the fact that came which is a bastion of excellence. Actually, so people can meet that level I think what tends to happen is that these myths around cambridge to gains came Jesus sea level and a woman, terms, you need for a grades

I think what happens is that teaches then. Don't know that potential students who could think about going to cambridge put off because they think I haven't got their collect of nine eight stars at jesse is the interview, a barrier to think for I've. Seen Jesus, we ve just been through our kind of interviews. Says the team there, I'm really really good trying to get the best out of people. So I don't think it's a barrier am also doing. A lot of things were reaching out to look up children who are from communities of care reaching out to students who are from disadvantaged background. They may not have got through the interview the first time, but they go into an adjustment process between after they got their arrows and often these students who, coming out with four stars came with ngos backs mrs. We still considers it puts the power back in those students. Hands So you think the onus is on the students is well every

this is a group of people in the uk who are sixteen. Seventeen eighteen every year, this need for them, and I think that if you begin keep absorbing the story in the past, which basically say you're there. There is a self perpetuating thing. I think that if the conversations about look, this is one of your five choices ago. I think that's, that's fine. I also think that if the story is the atmosphere and oxbridge college is going to be different to the atmosphere when you go to a different university, a different one that unites popping up. That could be a few today. which be different, but what you come up against a young person going out into the world is probably the same. You might as well go for. It has been la took about the storms? Effective ones to places like students at cambridge has not made an impact on the numbers applying ever think it probably has just made the impact in the media, talk about it good thing about the throttle,

life, the media has influenced a lot so sometimes journeys to kind of got one of congress. Not what were you doing, but actually was the myth that your perpetuating by constantly saying: oh students have fun your heart should be learning grades. Nor could I think about the people. I went through cambridge, whether they are brilliant, their intellectually capable and so now I think we need to get more people to apply. We need to get more people to, and can I deserve that? That's. Why should be doing it's time to go to your second disk wisely chosen its anita, while this is many repetition leffler. This take me right back to my childhood. I was brought up in east london or from stone late in stone and I was very highly influenced by my brother and he was very much into jazz just funk. There was a combination of his record collection, the king, my parents, recollection my pain

were quite keen on us doing a lot of education. That's why they travelled four thousand miles from barbados, and I think this track. I do remember playing over and over again and really love in the production, loving the big drop at the time point of use that term about placing mountain kind yeah, it's really big as a kind of expansiveness to it, which I think all levin intervals should experience.

many repetition and lay flat all about the crescendo. Senator lane So, as you mentioned, you were born in barbados. Lived there until you with three: it settled your parents and to siblings in east london? How would you describe family life there, but That's my mental was walking up the stairs kind of typical to up to down terrorist house emotions. and the stairs being coins steep remembers or two and a half thinking crowd I'll get my legs up the stairs I must have compared. To the stairs in barbados in my grandmother's house, but all three of us share the same bedroom. My parents had their own bedroom, but I had a little side table with climate side table climb on the door of a cupboard. Next to it. Colonel the top of the cupboard and then launch ourselves onto the bed. I also remember twenty catch pigeons in the back yard.

With a box and he was not rising. She soon. Cartoons, new scientific damage rise land being on tv. The time sharing crumbs and a little cardboard box and a little string and sing they're waiting for pigeon either wasn't it. with a pigeon valiantly to fidget too wise to this kind of games that are still trying to catch them and member learn to read before went to school at school. When I first started my badge and accent was much stronger. I remember they put me special class and my mother got me out of it and she said no, no, that's just wasted talks and what we have feelings about its battles your parents have, for. You are quite aware, of of being black from kennedy, age actually and my parents, as which my dad was always talking about what happened to them in the country when they made come over, he was quite soon I now that think that pair, when apparently want to warn your children. This is coming by think for me. It was taken

warning and saying it will wanting to box me in that? Will that warning to make me think I cant do something? How did your parents handle it all that quite smithville, my mom is very, very practical person load. A common sense was difficult for them but there was a house as a community of people. He'd come over from the caribbean. Do if someone popping in so there was that since the community, I think from my perspective I felt very special. Could I could read because the head teacher would let me go in and pick my books and later on, helping other people meat, but also had one person say to me: don't answer questions on time, because the boys don't know the answers and that's really damaging between the noise was that but they were so. You got that realisation. Use childhood goes away from you because you realize what the world is about. Do you remember your first barrier that you came up against? That's a good question. It's a good question.

because, most times in life you eve overcome them. Could you sitting that Sometimes the things that you can't do what you do. swept around them. Maybe it's the way in which, to my mind, is wired. They cease to be. Barriers. Is a flow past. You in the flow of time you don't really think about the things that you you didn't He said that as a kid you were aware of being black. What does that mean to you, then? What did it feel like had that manifest, just think about osborne, nineteen sixty seven the backdrop to my life at that point was television it was so important, a member getting offers television and you weren't. On it and when you were on it, you were being disparaged and did you to tell the time all we are at the time. You is what your accommodation with loop of an age to it, I wouldn't say, is going to be some sort of disparaging but of course, coming out about you

I think you should go for life. You get very angry about it. I think, as you get older kind cope with a little bit more, there is definitely not all here. We are again you have as much shorter life and his coat with better must take it back to me its disk number three tommy venison! Okay. This is, o J rentals key to the world, and this me that way connection at the time east london laden stone. Love is rock. We are slower reggae, but framer logic, close dancing. We don't you close dancing enough, but maybe I don't go out enough For me. The connection was ready, thomas tee to the world, so you ve, gotta connection of the caribbean reggie coming into be lovers, rock which for me, was a very london and thing, MR music, while I was ignored, It wasn't on the mainstream. This is the elderly windows reynolds, which is the american version of it again. I really really big sound live music uplifting

That's the one a teacher. You do I'll J, reynolds and key to the world scene? Peter laying out teenage years, often

time of self discovery. What were about back then? Who music I pay the owner winter orchestra? I didn't stop perform being seen until seventeen vivacity and then it for me going to cambridge. was a kind of microcosm of the world you convened by yourself. You can try things, you can do things you can perform the first time the adventurous starting and life. Sometimes is more exciting when you say yes, so token saying yes things, how did you come to apply to cambridge really good school, which was in late? Mr really good, head teacher deputy and wait it took so long to visit one of the girls who had gone to cambridge already she looked really happy. Now but the expansion, the beaches college and say you think this is a place I could fit and then the process of game for came which was exhilarating. There was a few of us who, by fighting with five or six girls, he did latin who and extra lessons in thinking, and it was that

When you escape the blackboard and by escaped the blackboard, I mean that still have a system where you go for that? is because you have to answer certain questions in a certain way to get your mark. But for me that was the first I'm in someone said what do you think everything you'd read everything you watched or your opinions were able to say we you are now a free thinker. Welcome come to the world of free thinking for me that was amazing process. I remember going up my interview, woman. He became my supervisor, set brilliant I'm an hour with her and well. You know I left the interview. feeling really ready buoyant, because we had a really good discussion. We talked about value, we talked about artfully intelligence and it just felt like I was noticed. We gotta go to the music it's your fourth today tells, but this is my typical kangaroos

track went to f. There was all about late, like conversations swapping of ideas. Sobbing of story He's and swapping of music when I went to came, but I didn't phil people had my same musical journey, but then I was quite open to that sense of adventure and tom whites was introduced to me and that point annie I love till night. I might be the first master of an expert college, half an hour the weak or my notice board. Why album this week is rain dogs? Quite all right, but this is Martha. These are real beauty to being able to capture and emotion, and one some tell a story which is so sad that she becomes beautiful and then you kind of thick yeah, your genius. depends yes, the tears

tell me and martha from the album closing time so these will lend you arrived at cambridge in nineteen eighty five as a student, what we are first impressions for me it was the sense of difference. I very sociable I think after the first term- and you have only my ear and it was sense of freedom. There was a moment I thought is too, as I can do this, I can go full on in the law. very well. I can go fallen into life, so I did didn't politics, I did organizing again on the maple committee. I joined a ban myself out. Their marches what's gotten much safer, The car was anti racism. Those are the things that I was very concerned with

time. So you love connections, but you did mentioned earlier that cambridge was by no means as diverse then as it is now. How was that few? It was vital, black students group, whose I still have today. I think it rose places where you'd nods, two people leave didn't know who black you're, having a shared experience of being different and being here. So that was this poor other communities me where the jazz community, my first trip out Will you be my own into town was to go to the cambridge? Wouldn't just club tried done? it was. While so I felt a difference I didn't sustain that's more funding, so much other stuff and meeting so many different people. Subject was philosophy. Of course, what did studying that give tee? I think we, the actor rigour of being with analyze, large pieces, a text and drilled What is the issue here? That's what philosophy gave me very practical out looking life after lieutenant,

and with your first job was working in insurance. You cold calling oh yeah. How and why well philosophy, if he's not it makes no law could not write. The country needs, like hundreds philosophers so I didn't know I wanted to do when I left cambridge and just picked up a job. I won't go, find me free random. I end up going into this cold calling I have to say it was a very good thing to do, because it meant that we have to talk to anyone. I think everyone should do so. Stop any business trouble. You do that's a valuable thing today. We're gonna have to take opposing the conversation to some music. Now, it's your fifth disk. Why this one? This is arrest. development tennessee. You talked about fact, but I started off in insurance, my career, me too deciding to go music and when I set up my radio production company ninety one? I was putting on gigs and events to get cash flow going and the development with a big band that were there at the time

and this was when the gig, so we on the other I walk to. I like walking, and sometimes, if you have to exercise you, think it's not about the walk. It's about music grandma I believe that in the dream was arrested, development and tennessee sidney to relieve you found work at java firm. That was a station. It was at the forefront of this new independent radio sector that was firing in the early nineties. How did you get the gig there

The aid between call calls at this moment when I just so, you know what- I'm spent a lot of my life working. I bet adieu. Something I enjoy so I rang just emphasise which connected jobs across the uk rang them up at high, and we re important cultural, hello. I'm snakes I want working jazz. Can you call me at this summit comes up what came up with working for small, just publishing company Job came to an end, and then I remember being unemployed for that, and I went to a cassandra, wilson, gig and then also went to adjust against parties meeting and there was a guy there who was at both of those events, and he said, oh, you look like a journalist. I live course you're having written a couple of things. for the student union, eggs have yes, yes, I am, then you should always. You must come along a meeting that was going to go into town to fam,

in his station and ninety ninety one in and you were made redundant, and so he then pooled enough cash to form somethin else with some of your java pham colleagues so jazz nelson and chris, philip five hundred quid each having you built up to be a very successful company. Looking back, what do you think was your most important repeated why they could see? Oh, it was the risk taking getting to the crops unless that we sell creativity and how to move from radio into digital media. The first, I think, was probably the radio station we did up in edinburgh faster if I'm time that the government were giving out restricted service licences that you could run away. Yes, twenty days. So now we call a popup radio stakeholder rival that idea for that year and your sign one little office going. While how do we get notice? It was a community of people who were striving something it was a blank piece of paper. So I think that's what the exciting rather time it sounds like an adventure. I mean you ve, built and very successful business career out of a love of culture. That is,

necessarily main stream. I wonder what lessons you ve been able to learn from the creative people that you admired those lessons that have been useful in the business world. What have you taken away, but you don't know, sir, have to accept rules but the old, isn't necessary as its given to you. We ve been trained to accept rules. You go to school. One hundred and twenty three you're running around there's no gap between two cans. Thinking we get to sit on the map, thirty kids on the map and then you'll told, to put your hand up to wait for someone to take you to speak, I like to think that maybe we're incorporating right from the very very young age, the need someone to say you can do it and deciding that the world is. There is a huge adventurous paint set for you to have a go on. Let's have some music. This is from that wine, and it was when I met my partner in life and save lives.

You don't five bedroom house were good friend leading champion a door to learn to turn off. It was a party has the time when you could have Three sound systems in five bedroom house, one on each floor- and this is for my uncle outside forgave, but not forget and distant, encapsulates that whole melting pot, excitement of stout news

outside to forgive but not forget sidney. will be met your partner, James Mccarthy, round the time that track was released. The two of you have a son miro uneasy teenage. Now, how did you would just to motherhood especially during what must have been a very busy time in your professional life. I did matters the first four months and every woman has got at birth story, but I remember as what is packing stuff to go to the hospital for the birth. We had a big city play and we had a bag full of cds, music, sweet important line what music will be born to that's the thing that was going through my head. You get time. Twenty of them only did report on less music. I think it was maybe one of the most our nights in the maternity would cause? It was also free, jazz being played clay loudly, and there was employed when it was ok enough no moment, I'm just pushing right

even a job going to know you guys, I don't want the reason just be gas. So yeah, so that was why I just want to motherhood. It was a really interesting country because I remember thinking owner had a child cut back to my work. Making many proud of me in business will do that It will do that and then there was a point on which I realised that he just wanted me to play lego so building up your business alongside them yeah. That was a good peered. I think at that point we went on business owners coarse and bore in things like management systems and really looked, but how we sold and looked at the fact that we sell creativity and we expanded and took more with. There came a point after by eighteen years, when I was my ok. Don't move on, but what I done before, that was there on different boards I'm quite interested in bigger issues around society thousand department. Cotton, major sport does not accept director things that national parliaments looked at the kind of welfare to work system. Is the beauty be able to think

the biggest scale. Think about issues and take your philosophy with you into different areas. You works, take new cross, the media. Of course. need to find a radio shack that you were on the board at the BBC trust two thousand and twelve to twenty seventeen and died for us. It's been a big part of your life How is the media doing in that regard? Now it's better, I think, come behind the mike. or behind the camera? Not so good, so in product, Instead, I won t be done still. Love works begun production, a lot of work to be done in terms the hierarchy, the decision makers lives so a big way to go actually said the public facing side better, but pinus things become better, but when it comes down to the stories at all from a working class perspective of almost perspective or black perspective, you need to have more people in the mix. Creatively needs have more people in the mix. In terms the power and economic power for me. Equality

please and are about the ability of people to thrive economically and personally, to be able to go for jobs to see a career structure from which is there for the taking? If they want to go for it, and I think that's that's the problems in terms of media, we didn't have enough people around the boar table. That's my music tangier seventh disk, but for us. This is definitely the marrow disk. Anyone who is apparent will know that glorious glorious moment when they take off new nap cover. Let us be honest about it. We all know that this is really good, I remember I used to play cassandra wilson to mirror and help them in my arms and go to sleep. This particular track his last trained to clarksville it's a monkeys track, but she totally makes her own glad to meet you

by being known mass. once again the greens cassandra and last train to clarksville syn. he's really your college Jesus is part of cambridge, which is largely publicly funded and a global brand with an enviable reputation. What do you think is the key to maintaining its prestige, particularly after breaks it? Oh, I think her it's five hundred years of prestige? It's gonna be ok, so too strong foundation. I think also The case is the alumni as you get in

for community. You realise that the community stretches back through time. The things you do up it stretched and lay the foundation for going forward in time, and what about What do you think are the main challenges that it will bring fulfilling it. Anyhow, google, you talk about challenges, but then people? Don't talk about the challenges over the short term with a long term? Would medium term mattel us for me, it's it's a challenge of make actual people realise that something is happening and you. Can you see as a kind of wool that you ve hit, or you say it something this there and then came and looked around it. Maybe that's the business pleasantly me. when a little bit of sancy but is changing from an academic sign terms of research grants from europe at such a secular, but our I'm, I feel very positive. You have to build a community from a position of positivity. I know it's happening. Mr scum

senator it's time for your final disk. What is it and why the chosen? This is more of an animal petersen. Swing, lay sweet chariot and, if you see me enjoy, This will around with a big, smiling face this publication. My head is a great great track. It's gotten Did we murray on tell I who doesn't look just type the brain

Marvin, Hannibal petersen and swing low, sweet chariot. It's time to cast you away to the island, then senator alain you will be what to do some reading because will give you the bible, the complete works of shakespeare and, of course, a book of your own. What would you like a parade michael and dirty and coming three slaughter. The language She's amazing and the stories incredible and it I suppose I read most is. We can also offer you a luxury to make your stay more enjoyable. What would you like? I would like to take? a genie in a lamp that works confines of my island, ah, presumably to generate wishes, well go how's. Tuneful is one object, is not digital. It's just a gene in the lamp that'll be great, but a house is pretty practical. Yeah party could because this means practical item. Arguably it's an imaginative item on that basis, we're going to allow it. Thank you. Yes, the genie is yours. Of course I have one

my question to ask you and I think it might be the most difficult one of all for use in. He said if you had to save one of these eight discs from the waves, which would be very, very difficult. I think I'm gonna go for many reports and leffler the genie without give me a really really good sound system. I would just play really loud all across the island at various times, something that woman, careful senator thank you very much for letting us here. Your does island discs. Thank you very much for having me. I hope, since it will be very happy on the island, I do suspect her imagination. Will be put to good use ass. She said she's a huge just fine. Well over the years, many just great have been cast away, including dave brew, back humphrey littleton. Clearly

louis Armstrong and Jamie column back in two thousand and one similarly cast away the sex, oftenest courtney pine say: let's, let's go back to your scope, recorded clarinet de sex offender and you started to play where you playing outside school in bands what we do. Yes, I started playing with her youth, local, big band, which the ultimate aim was to be in the national. You ve just orchestra, but this is again. Minister very much alone will stand kent in that kind of stuff. Where did you pay? We play the exile response, clubs, and that was a related occasion in a kind of burned. Mankind of humour that kind of place, and for me, being a young black men involved

I didn't get any trouble or anything, but it was just interesting playing music and seeing the functionality of music in that environment, but as well as the big banned, you are playing in jazz, ousting the just kind of thing, and I was doing like a popular reggae kind of thing at the same time, and I ended up literally at the age of sixteen being a professional musician and it was. It was very interesting because I was on the road. Getting twenty pounds on the weekends and came back falling asleep in school. As you say your school as well. How could you cope in current? It was very difficult, and my music teacher said: well, you are professional musicians, emails or leave school continue, because this is what you want to do anyway, but difficult feel mother to accept, quitting

that would have had you knew different ambitions. Were my mom's very much into the educational thing and music was in a pot of our family culture. It was due to be adopted in the house was to be a doctor for some strange reason. I think she saw me in the garden decapitated worms sending so something that we could be a surgeon or something. So how did you persuade because, as you say,

you know. You are very well behaved you with the boy with a nobly needs in the shiny satchel, I'm a pass directly. So how do you suddenly persuade this? This mother, whose lucy quite dominant in your life how'd you suddenly said to excuse me? I'm not gonna. Do this education they well for my exams, while levels, I felt every single one except music, every single one of us, what a hit so that I made up my mind that I want to be a musician and also my mom, seeing me going out with these rest amendment being associate with that music. Didn't we take it seriously, she's to lock where my Saxo phones to cheat, and she said. Well, you better go! Do the show with how you ve big bad, I'm not goin the roadmap, twenty pounds with this reggae ban, so she was very worried for you caught me, I'm talking to see lowly next time. I guess we'll be radio to breakfast show host zoe bull do join us, then.

If you listening to some of the pot cas, then am stop now and listen to a good one, because the infant among cadres bat for new series imitate laws things out of it. We can begin with the science of laughter, conspiracy theories, coral reefs, quantum worlds and finally ufos. I love you if I so set by the way the. If I want to be able to watch on, I play at all of the serious and we ve done our available on BBC sounds. I must say that I wouldn't. I wouldn't bother with the first series of things very good I would, but with the first two, but we would play by different people anything what we mean by regime and them you would Debbie Magee demagogue, braggin Magee. Now that is a nineteen eighties tv detective zoos that I will be making