Episode 5: John finds a lawyer and plots to unleash a blizzard of lawsuits against his enemies, with the aim of proving to Debra that he is the victim, in case after case. The lawyer believes her life is in danger. As her painful isolation from her family deepens, she secretly plans her escape from the marriage.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
A listener note, this story contained adult content and language. John John
low, can't be sure how John me had found him, and he was absent,
save about taking him on as a client is paralysed.
Had done some research on me hand and was so spooked, then she told her boss. She wanted no part of the case me and had done prison time for stocking and terrorizing alone,
in a beach woman and now, on April, eight twenty fifteen me
was sitting and Jolly Santa Anna LAW Office, meaning
one, a jolly to sue the Laguna Beach woman claiming
she'd cheated him of a quarter,
in dollars me,
had other ideas for lawsuits too.
There was yet another woman who had supposedly cheated him. He also accused
police who arrested him of stealing his cash
The blizzard of lawsuits was part of John me, his plan to win back the trust of his wife, Deborah who will sit
beside him he won a jolly to prove he'd been the victim in case after case,
not at all the dangerous swindler portrayed in mountains of court papers. Job will told me that he
plan to turn down the case, even though
be getting in twenty five thousand dollar retainer, but meeting Deborah listening to Deborah gave him second thought.
She seemed naive and helplessly in her husband's grip,
She struck me right off the bat as a very genuine fair.
very vulnerable laid.
And she was obviously in love with him
oh, I really only met him face to face once, and that was-
In about a two hour interview, he was
the scariest man I had ever met in my life
I'm seventy years old. I practice law for forty two years before retired last year. In September John,
me here. I was scared.
Dirty John sponsored by Penguin Random House in a good girls guy to murder by Holly Jason. Everyone in Fairview knows the storing popular
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From the LOS Angeles Times and wondering this is dirty job. I'm Christopher Gulf
Part five escape
so I've got this lady, that at that sitting there who just strikes me as wonderful woman and this scare
scary guy that I just I can
hardly look at him. Sometimes does I'm just
to me, like the anger that he is here,
Building inside is, is, is
intense Deborah explained that are family did
trust the man she married after a whirlwind romance of less than two months. There was a debt.
A chill in our relationship with her children, they believe it
was a greedy predator and
the longer, they stayed married, the bigger his claim on her
She was asking me. What can we do? Can you
Anything that will help put my family eddies
he asked her whether or not she had gotten a pre nuptial agreement withdrawn before they got married and she said
The tree had not, and I suggest that it will. Maybe it would easier families mind if we did a post nap
hello began explaining how a snub would work. It would effectively cut John out of Gabarus fortune if they
split up the strangest thing here
Ben. During the course of this two hours together
the more we doubt about the post, not and how
what would actually go in effect, the more sulking
an angry John became, not vision, not not vocally.
He would. He didn't get angry with me, didn't, say anything I we all need your goddamned stinkin posting a thing like that, but, as we talked about it,
he was like sinking down in his chair with his hands cross,
in front of his chest and he was
most scowling at me with this, with his with his lips puckered and squint de glazed, I couldn't tell
what color his eyes were, but I
tell you that, as I sat across the table from him that day, they were, is black ass coal?
it's the kind of thing where you look at somebody, and you swear
swear. You came here. You can literally here the ceiling cauldron, that's inside their brain and that's when I started looking at the sky thick and my god. He is not case. This is
dangerous man and one
When I looked at him and said you know, John, it's obvious that you don't like
We know where we're going with all of this, but John,
obvious to me that this woman loves you and she's.
Looking for a way to eliminate this problem that we have
her family. So I
not here, to try and hurt you, I'm not here to act as the bad guy. I'm here,
because this woman is in love
With you and is asked
for my help to try
smooth things over Whither family, Johns response
says, became shorter, more clipped but still
He didn't yell at him or threatened him
was someone I wanted to get out of the room with. I just felt like you know this guy, you like his his
it's ain't gonna break open right in front of me, because there is so much anger even in I would tell you beyond
anger you'd. I just got the feeling that this guy was consumed with rage. He
This is very good at keeping it bottled up, but it was something that was palpable to me
nothing that would result in a complaint to the police department that, whatever sticker you can't file, can't follow charging a guy.
Certainly not in the woman. He was married to wasn't
asking me to do anything about that. Two things occurred to me. First was
I just got stronger in my feeling that,
woman needs some protection and, if she's
got nobody else. Then this offer
he's gonna try and do it as much as we can. The
thing that occurred to me. As I look to John and I
watched him. Seething were about the idea that there would be a post. Nuptual agreement was that
this guy is going to find a way to torch. This deal now he's gone
to find a way to save our you're fired
yeah, you're you're not doing this right, your fire after they left his office Jolly says
told his assistant that he thought debars life was in danger,
some one needed to protect her this lady Anne.
I'd be melodramatic, but this lady is her. Life is imperative. If she's
As your does the wrong thing for him, I just believe this guy's got killer instincts in jail,
to work on the post snap. He sent financial disclosure.
Neighbours to John to fill out, but John drag his feet in returning them jolly
so told them he had studied the materially had given him on the woman. He claimed defrauded him, including a big stack of emails,
I couldn't see the makings of a lawsuit.
He needed a lot more information. He went ballistic on the phone and
started screamin yellin. You should have had that lawsuit filed by now. You should have at both of those lawsuits file. By now I don't
you know what you're doing you're just a waste of my time, I'm dot, I'm done. You're fired. I said: ok,
I'm? If that's the way you feel, I think I should talk
Two were Deborah,
to see. Does
and apply on the post.
Is it you are fired? You don't work for me. You don't work for Deborah Udall. We want not.
To do with you dollar would put some time into the case and he said he'd figure out
what two bill, I'm in return, the remainder of the money. You should know fuck you all you
Send me every goddamn dollar back that type and he stopped
screaming at me that I'm a fraud that I'm a crook.
I mean he is just getting nasty beyond belief. I got a call him the I have a check here. For
one in five thousand dollars to Morrow morning our I call a bar association and
I thought to myself there in no way I've, given this guy twenty five grand back, I am going to figure
going to bill it and I'm going to give him the remainder back.
The remainder back, and I
care. Whether he goes to the bar association and honour.
I've got a retainer from him. I've got can show all my work
show all those emails, but then here we ve got
emails going back and forth between him and me at that point where he is just losing it. He is. He wants
his money. I'd it's gotta, be paid right now
he's gonna go to the states, tyrannies, district, attorney's office, blah blah blah and me I'm through
can of, while this
Who's, the guy that I'm pretty sure has
as has homicide in his in his head. You know
it was around this time. The jolly started, bringing the shot gun to work a good bit
to pay. I've got the lights to keep on. I've got the rent bay, I vote.
Ploys to pay, but I'm thinkin
you know this is one guy. I don't wanna have out there thinking
screaming and yell, and that I treated here this is
I who would do anything so
I agree to give his money back.
I should add that, later, a couple of weeks later, he filed a complaint with the bar even after dash absolutely absolute,
Java was unable to get through John to reach Deborah Annie,
I dunno her position on all this Ali good thing to do is due
do our business and Irvine Ambrosia Interior Design, and leave a note which you I'd like to leave this room.
No. This is a personal matter. If you please deliberate and all
said was Deborah. I don't.
If you know this or not John his file, a complaint with the bar association, I
is curious as to whether or not you are aware of it
and whether or not you concur with it at all. I asked I didn't get a call from her. I got a call from him. Don't you if you f
ever contact my wife again and that this
Maybe the one time where he did threaten. You know you. You ever contact me
wife again, you are gonna, regret
I I was a damn thing. I kissed the sky, I've even more
What is interesting is that it took you only two hours, the form, an impression that lasted now years, some
quite the opposite, a religious experience. You don't worry me some unholy and ashamed changes your wife,
This is certainly an versa that, like you locked into a boy that that is sold.
Because we all-
We don't want to believe the really bad things about people we just don't. We want to think that
People are good and when you meet somebody like this and you
realize I am sitting here in the presence of evil incarnate.
You know that people like him really do exist and one has just come into your orbit.
Scariest man? I've met my seventy years.
Deborah, made sure John understood that one day her children would inherit all her money. That was fine, John told her. All he needed was her used to tell me that he would, rather than he could date so many wealthier women than me that he would much rather be with me with no money living under bridge. Then, with the wealthiest
Living in a mansion without love, Deborah had cut John out of her well months back for fear that he might kill her and, though
went to sleep beside him and woke up beside him. It was impossible to
plainly banish that fear.
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debars kids thought it was flat out crazy that she had returned to John
and me and wanted her kids particularly
or to oldest daughters out of her life, he blame them.
Troubles and the marriage blamed
for hiring a private eye to probe his past blamed them
temporarily turning his wife against him. This is Jaclyn.
Very angry that she had gotten back together with him, because I've salt lake of all of the evidence that we had. How could you believe,
No, how could any thing? How could any story proof that this stuff is ok to be here? All this evidence about John John hatred,
anti terror, debars, youngest and quietest daughter, even though she had clashed with him. He found her the least troublesome of history
He found her the least troublesome of his step, daughters.
I feared him and disliked him. He was the reason.
Sometimes carried a pocket knife. She said
She was willing to sit down with him and try to work things out, believing
He would never take her up on it. Jaclyn was upset with terror foreseen.
To give him a chance tears a lot more like my mom, where she wants to believe the best and people rather than see any of the bad things, and I could probably have been a little bit more like them. It would do me some good bad. I just
couldn t anything good in him. Just all bad. In the summer of twenty fifteen terror was living in Vegas with her boyfriend Jimmy grab, they were renting a three.
Adam House with three dogs and two cats and trying to make it work
Every love affair has its own set of rituals and there
was a Sunday night television show
something the turn I pondered over definitely was
for one of our fears shows the walking dead and you know it
the way the show is set up and they put these characters in such crazy. Dire circumstances
one episode, I think thinkers and the second season where a character is trapped in advance
room of an hour v and you know, is just basely. Death is knocking at the
or right there. Its relentless
won't, stop bids, you know menacing and then
its handed screwdriver from one of her maids uptown
and he ends up you're. Just
damning the thing to death in the in the face, and it was just
you know that fighter flight moment in its leg. What are you gonna do when something that menacing just won't? Stop
we will watch tat shall now you want
it again, and then we were washed talking. Then I just thought
there's a zombie apocalypse, then maybe I am, I know what to do
a zombie is an uncomplicated dream of evil. Almost
Everything else in the world is ambiguous. There is good and bad
people, one bad and good people and gray everywhere,
but zombies are not reasonable and are not redeemable there. Only survivable or destroy able
as the shadow of Johns menace seem to lengthen this was the feeling of oak and people who had come to fear him.
Terrorists, so she got a zombie kid for Jimmy with food water, a flashlight, a filter, straw matches a thermal blankets and nine
I told him. The tickets have regard in his life
You can always I went
there's a zombie apocalypse, drawing Vegas the zombie kid was
Christmas present to Jimmy and twenty fourteen, and it was there last Christmas, together by the summer of twenty fifteen, they were breaking up in the break up tarragon cash. There are strictly and Shepherd she had a tighter bond with cash than Jimmy did Deborah drove out to Vegas to pick up her daughter who was crestfallen after the break up John
didn't. Subject: terror moved back to California and started applying for jobs. She found one as a candle attendant and dogged rumour. She loved the company of animals.
John and Deborah were living in a luxury apartment near the Irvine spectrum and upscale area. They travelled a lot. Denver in Colorado Springs San Francisco in Seattle, Santa Barbara and Lake Tahoe.
He was back to his doting ways. He spent the day many days
Getting my car's washed running errands for me, going to the post office, helping me with different things,
Getting my dry cleaning going brochures shopping, he'd, have flowers all the time for me.
He went to hold me all night and kiss me constantly and things like that. So there was this, I mean. Obviously it feels good, so you can you hold onto that. I think at times,
At night he fell asleep, holding her breathing against the side of her neck. His arm over her body, it was strong,
seems to be in love with someone and fear him. At the same time, she was careful what she told him about her kids, because
became so volatile at any mention of them. He was secretive about the
air phone calls he'd get he claimed to spend a lot of time, a twenty four hour fitness or at the sauna.
But she really had no idea what he did all day when they went to the dog park, to let the
Golden Retriever Murphy run around who was
this woman, who kept smiling Adam, had they shared something together, sometimes she'd come home. Afraid she'd find something she didn't want.
See like John with another woman or doing drugs. I was a little nervous going home. I didn't know what to expect. I didn't know what he was doing an honest computer all day. I didn't know what he was doing. I'm scared. I think that I was scared for my life and my kids like I'd made it such a major mistake, and so what happens? Do tell anybody like hey. I need to get out of this. I didn't want anyone to worry, so I kept it to myself. I did call psychologist few times and talk to them
they said you need to protect yourself. So it's best not to just jump out of it quickly. Better plan,
have to play the role of the happy wife. For now. Sometimes he seemed a sense that something had changed. He said you don't look at me in this.
Way. He said. I know you're going to leave me. She told him, it was
his imagination that she was busy at work that she was stressed that she was so
free and she made him one of his favorite meals, pork roast with vegetables, John Valea Chicken Noodle soup, from scratch
he'd say he wouldn't know what to do without her that he wanted to do
in her arms sometimes,
they had the semblance of a normal domestic life in the EU.
It put on the tv while she sat reading beside him,
like the show lock up the documentary
theories about life behind bars and enter,
mention the show about addiction to Subjects
which he had intimate experience. He liked the comic Daniel
Sean Comedy Central, but his favorite show
I'm TVS ridiculous, which marks people
I videos who do stupid things and get hurt, and always
John Laugh, Deborah
had begun hiding money from him. She take two thousand
dollars from every paycheck and give it to her eldest daughter or to a friend.
She didn't want him to have access to all her money for fear. He take it
She didn't want him to know that she was still giving money to her kids in October, twenty fifteen
he bought a house on North Water, Street and Henderson Nevada
It was an investment and she got to work upgrading it, but
More importantly, it was a place. John could stay where he would be away from her children. One day
went to see Jaclyn and when she returned he confronted or about where she'd been he'd get the tracker on her car heat
or if she saw Jaclyn again he'd fro Jaclyn in the ocean and make sure she didn't come out and say: oh he now stop being so dramatic for things like that. They richest comments, like about his wife,
Ex wife about Jack, learn about I started relay.
In this man. If I do try
believe him and I think that parliament wanted
them to. Finally, all like each other and be happy family wasn't gonna happen. It wasn't happening by December
many fifteen? They ve been married a year John sat down to type her a two page letter
It was a Trickly bonbon with a core of arsenic.
It reminded her of what he required between her face
and her husband there,
was room only for him. It starts out seen gap, happy anniversary. Why near and forever means forever. He would say that to me all the time we ve been through some hard times complicated times, but at the end of the day, I have you to myself no family, no issues that we can't work out. I love you, you have the kindest.
Most forgiving heart of any person. I've ever known. I want to grow old with you. I want to hear your breath in the middle of the night. Fill you reach for me. When there is nothing else between us, I can't imagine living without.
You and your absolutely not a family there not levied by the way I hope to get over what they did. I wish I could now because I see the pain you have been away from them. I wish,
it just fix this. I wish I could make all those problems and issues go away, but sometimes life so complicated that there is no turning around some
times. The issue is bigger than us. Sometimes
then go is better than holding on. We have each other, we have each other forever. I will never cheat or disrespect human,
way. I have no desire for anything other than you. You are simply the best person,
I have ever known where the biggest hard imaginable
I wish I was more like you. I wish I could see the world like you. Do he went on
say I love the way you smell and the way you drift off to LA la land. While I'm talking to you, I love that
all of you and needless to say, making love to you is about as close to a religious experiences I have ever had. I
I'd die in your arms because this world would be a dark place without you. I hope you love me and we grow old together. I hope he too
the sort of things all the time and they always sounded sincere, and I got very twine. Here's my family in here I go again another failure, so I didn't think I wanted like go through another divorce, that how can I keep getting the sober hopping so many times? I know my
problem. Is I jump into him without really getting to know the person she knew? She would never really be able to trust him. She knew she.
And deceiving herself that our children
not been her enemies, but the ones who had seen him clearly from the start. In February. Twenty sixteen Johns
covered, the Deborah had been secretly giving Jaclyn money to attend real estate classes. He thought that I, with out of my mom five and the fact that my mom and I were talking a little that really bothered him, because he wanted me just out of the picture.
Away all the people in the family you're the one you most identified as an enemy right. He asked
and I really hot it out for each other jobs.
Sending Jaclyn lewd messages. He called
real estate school and slandered her embarrassing her to the point that she dropped out. She said
sent her a picture of her birth certificate with spit on it. She sense
hated messages back. She showed me they're exchanges from March six, twenty sixteen, I googled pile up shut and then I found him an image of a pile of shared and then
I was like a few huddle life. You wouldn't be wasting your energy emailing me. Let's just stop wasting each other's time. Nobody cares about you. He was like you, dont have a long, and it's like
she's right next to me and were reading your emails together. She reads me a couple more from John Mommy wants nothing to do with you and that will kill you. Jumping off its whole building would make me smile had first will work. I said, leave me alone music.
Herbert yeah jump headfirst at your mom and I will be laughing. I thought what a sick thing to say to my daughter was just the things he would say that, but that point who can be with someone like that
I really had to protect myself and my kids. Deborah had been married to John a year and three months at this point she withdrew a hundred
twenty thousand dollars from her bank account hoping he would notice. She gave some money too
friend to hold and some to a daughter
she had thirty thousand dollars stashed in the bottom drawer in a closet, banded stacks of honey
dollar bills. Somehow he found it. He confronted
at their own county apartment is put in front of me, and so what's this so I said money and he went into my accounts- is a worry withdrawing. All this money had been tracking all my counts and when he Plaza stagger cash from you. What did you say? It's mine mine before you start like you to have it and it is now everything that is yours is mine. When I said now get anything that was lying before you still mine and that's what he said and he will we were getting heated up, and I am not one to erase my boy subpoena who I am he said, he'd be get me because of you hit me I'll, make sure you never get up again said. I'm not gonna hit you and I have to back, and I laughed and I said I wanted to bore a sign out here. So
with the end of the end, the think I grab once you some of my maker and left me. One perishing whence you I'm taking up an item leafy double
Jaclyn drove out to the House and Henderson Nevada when they knew John was in California.
They worried he might be monitoring them on security cameras, he'd installed at the house, so they had no time to lose. He could make it their in four hours if he knew Deborah put tape over the camera lenses
They brought professional movers and they worked quickly packing up Deborah stuff stacking it into the big truck. It was
march. Twenty nine twenty. Sixteen Jaclyn used her Iphone
cord. The condition of the house as they prepared to leave just in case John complain that they damage or stolen his thing.
believing when you ve got your phone
How can I go to the EU
You can see the chopped guys moving,
Driving a car.
Really ugly really past which
got a minute, that's
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Deborah had approached a family law attorney, who spoke to John me hand by phone and heard something chilling in his voice. He cared about his clients, he said, but he had a family. He decided to pass on the case
Then she found Michael R, O Neill, who had more than for decades in the law and kept a shot gun at his Santa Anna office. He sized up the situation fast. He saw how John I disgraced in penniless,
nurse anesthetist at lured. Her in then managed to keep.
Or even after he'd been unmasked the first time you take the victim.
Where the commons nothing. He asked the eat. Gotta like like a shot
he's gotta eat and that's what you see is he a shark and he looks for his prey. Yet they select these people. You know they don't just Milly Willie bump into somebody and go wild you'd be a great victim made of them,
about their victim and she finally realised when she saw the bad stuff that hey look, let's get away from the sky, and then he became a bad cop
He took away the polish and spelt shark stuff and he became a big fat sea bass. You know she's very
religious and when you hollow yourself you the sharp- and you say I can't believe that all these years I've been this shock,
I now would like to be a sound or a trap, and I owe it all to you. Well, that is bore the communion of the guy went around,
Are you can take this fish metaphor, but that's what he's done he just you.
Have to find somebody that will swallow that line hook, line,
sinker, so when I
Ask about the specific nature of the kind that the channel Run,
by that I mean his goal, was to get in the people's lives, marry them and then take half their stuff right now contain all their stuff anyway,
and he believed she was an afterlife using titled you he was entitled to it. She filed for divorce in April two thousand and sixteen, if Deborah had glimpsed a frightening side of him during their first separation. Now he seemed a creature of pure malignancy. He wrote you get your family, I got the dog, I got the better deal, you wanted money,
and promised to bleed her dry through the divorce courts. If she fought him, he wrote for once in your holier than thou life. Listen to me, you are going to have to pay both sides which could easily take a year
We had a good run, except for your family. There is no trusts, but the last
I want to do is break you. He sent her photos of himself with a provocatively posed ex girlfriend.
He threatened to disseminate compromising photos and emails. He wrote make yourself:
available or I ruined a family. There are children involved dab. This is bigger than you
no more being nice. This will turn
entire family inside out your selfish to allow this you'll. Never forgive yourself, but I am doing
I assured her you dont know how to live. Sex is not love, get help here
balanced or as a crook on yelp. He had once coax naked.
Those out of her and now he sent them to her family. He texted
that he knew where she was when she picked up her grand kid any sent a horrible tax to one of her nephews whose
Cindy, Deborah sister had been shot to death. The nineteen eighty four by her husband.
It was a wounded, John delighted. In inflaming John wrote, your dad should apply
one in the back of your useless head as well as your brother. Just after
blue, your mom's brains out all over the wall, Gabarus
be forged, her name on seventeen thousand dollars worth of checks and he accused her of assaulting him dab. I saw this coming it's
static. It's come to this point, but you leave me with no options. After your storm of lies. She replied
storm of lies, while you are the
expert in that area. He had brought only three boxes with
The marriage, mostly old clothes
Ah, he wanted seven thousand dollars a month and spousal support and seventy five thousand in attorneys fees. He accused her of steel.
Ninety thousand dollars in cash from him and through
thousand dollars and gold coins. He complain
that he was living on monthly disability checks of five hundred and fifty eight dollars for his bad back John wrote.
Doesn't matter. The paying support is not a real man demands, that's what the court feels is equitable. That's all that matters think dab. There is
Alternative to this. Unless you start thinking that or you
Eventually get bled dry, be smart. Deb, you
No idea of the mistakes made by
smarting you'll save a fortune, I dont trust any
can you say Deborah, wrote your evil. She understood
now how he worked. He turned
everything around he made his victims, look like his tormentors
He told her. She was a pathological liar face it
I'm smarter than you, she replied, stop don't
contact me again or I will go to the police he had posed
ass. Her soul made the answer to our longings after four failed marriages.
And now he used her past as a barb. You think I'm
going to allow your family to continue
look in the mirror five times and still making the same mistakes now
getting yours pray dab, pray hard. He had turned himself into a church going Christian and wept.
During sermons, knowing God matter to her
and now he used her face as a cudgel. Everyone is a better Chris
and then you he wrote. Pay backs are costly and a bitch.
He had rhapsodize endlessly about her beauty and promised. She would never know loneliness again, and
you lying old bag, you'll grow old
alone. He sent her a list of client spilled
who used her interior design, business and threatened to call them twice a day,
Deborah brought her lawyer a stack of legal papers documenting is criminal, history and his emails. She want
a restraining order. She feared for her life. She wanted protection for herself for her thirty six year old, daughter, Nicole, her twenty six years,
daughter, Jaclyn and heard thirty. Eight year old, Son Brandon. She did not less Tara. Who is twenty? Four on the request? John seemed not to be a threat to her. I submitted a each working document occasion I work day and night like two or three days, bold, with Deborah and without
Deborah to put together the entire package, O Neill cited more than two decades accumulation of May him, the theft of hospital drugs
Indiana Board of Nursing, calling him quote a clear
maybe a danger to the public and quote the
he jumped from moving ambulance to avoid arrest,
HANS reported death threats that they too asked for a restraining order. The arrest for it.
So worried by Johns reported death threats that they too asked for a restraining order, the arrest for extortion and stocking, but all of that wasn't enough.
In order to get a domestic violence restrain order in the judicial system in family law, you have to show a couple of things number one that it's an emergency number two, that you are in fear of your life safety whatever immediately, and that these
perpetrator of the alleged perpetrator has the ability and the means to do.
What did he is your alleging he's going to do?
which put you in fear and apprehension. What the court said is now we can do tat because
he hasn't laid hands on you. He hasn't hurt you physically
plus John lived in Henderson in another state, and there wasn't what the court thought of as fresh blood o Neill was surprised, but understood the court's reasoning in Russia
speck. It would have been nothing more than a piece of paper and that piece of paper wouldn't slowed down me had gone.
John had never been violent Deborah before we all thought his threats were probably idle. He hoped
I haven't seen anything: were he made
overt gestures to
Hands honour, I I just thought
This is a sick puppy. I mean was my position all more years
son of a bitch. You know that's what I thought
I told them they could come back and fourteen days to apply for a permanent restraining order. Deborah did something
inadvertently to sabotage it
She says another lawyer told her. She would save on legal fees if she can get John to settle what he accepted certain dollar about to agree to an annulment. She misunderstood that as a suggestion to meet him and she went to the Henderson House, she thought he looked like he'd aged a decade since she last saw him and his weight was way down. She broach the subject of the annulment. She even said they might try to start fresh afterward with no lies. It was the only thing she could think of to say he wouldn't hear of it. She promised till death. Do us part
he wept and said he was dying of cancer. He didn't want to die alone. How could she leave him? He told her. He do anything to make it right here.
A ten thousand dollar check to fix the Henderson House and told me
stay there, while they figure things out, she was trying to keep em occupied and by some time she says she slept on a mattress on the floor. That night
I'm dying, Deb Slow
dying. Please just come up with something, so we can move on he texted or when she got back to California, I'm not doing well, Deb, I'm doing horrible without you. I need you.
Because she had seen John because she had actually spent the night at the Henderson House.
Her lawyer knew. No judge would grant the restraining order. How scared could she be if she saw him voluntarily? I said what do you think you have completely taken away every muscle,
our real strength that we have to get a restraining order. You complete
the issue that one other person.
We know tat, it was
June twenty sixteen Deborah.
Living out of hotels, working out of hotels.
Checking in under the names of our assistance wearing a dark wig to conceal her blonde hair.
Now and then she snuck into her office in Irvine
at one p, DOT M on Saturday June 11th? She got there to find her blue sport model. Two thousand and fifteen Jaguar XF was missing from the lot a sixty four thousand dollars car two days,
Or the car was discovered in front of a business, a block away it wreaked of gas, and there was fire damage to the seat and doors, and there was a gas can in the car. However, at a time
A deterrent for car had done and inapt job the windows.
Hold up and the doors were closed. The fire had extinguished itself for lack of oxygen
Grainy Surveillance footage show John and genes crouched behind the bushes, watching the car waiting that Saturday morning,
It showed him come back about an hour later wearing gloves and a painters. Uniform police talk to John who admitted that he had taken the car that
Saturday, but insisted that he had done so with Debars permission and
then returned it unharmed. This was not a full admission of guilt, bodice, stupid things.
It put a man who lived out of state at the scene
Well one. She came back and said.
The Jaguar on fire and storage.
how to change the the playing field will now now he's regional, and I
talking, Irma really do
We have a video wait till he did it.
You have the very real knew something about O Neill thought of police.
Could connect him to the Jaguar torturing. He could finally get the restraining order. Everybody
assuring me. Yeah were investigated.
Looking into it yeah
We got the right guy I'll of June past,
then all of July and still the police had not arrested him. They
They were building a case trying to nail him with inconsistency in his story, o Neil
name in business. Address was on all the core papers. He says two of his friend
who were family law journeys were murdered by people on the opposing side? He thought it was a good time to put an extra locks at Santa an office. I thought he was the boy
I don't say that mean to
when I here to settle, but still
Do you any good if it's over there under the cabinet somebody barges in here your office in you're sitting over as your desk? He was a bad man from the onset he was about
whether or not he would take it to the east.
Rain that he alternately took to. I would have never thought that until at least the car
in the torch in became a has on temper blocked his texts. Any
rules and seem to enrage him Deborah changed phones sheriff
who's the hire guard. She thought she would be o k since she was on the road. A lot living out of hotels.
When she was an orange county. She stayed with Jaclyn who had found a new apartment near the John Wayne Airport. It had a security
but Jaclyn worried about John following her into the park and garage after the car, torturing, he seemed capable of anything I felt like I needed some protection as far as the way
then, because what am I gonna do instant six to guy come thought me, I'm five to fit me. No one! Ninety
she got herself a Smith and Wesson Revolver of all John Step? Kids,
she knew he hated her the most on the final episode of Dirty John
Finally, I would imagine tat they ll be here. We go.
tell me about yourself away like one of the greatest railway and up and down.
Thirty John, is reported and written by me, your host Christopher Gaffer, for the LOS Angeles Times
Karen Low was our producer and editor.
Design by Jeff Schmidt, executive producers,
Glaser and her Nan Lopez for wondering over the course of this production are
I'm stuck com or putting up installments as
you ve Cloud Robert makes him Dave on moderation. You can.
The story and allay times dot com were putting up installments as these episodes air.
I was recently interviewed by real crime profile, podcast, hosted by Laura Richards, the least his and Jim Clemente, a retired FBI profile. They had some interesting theories about John
ammo and a little known form of psychological abuse called coercive control. You can listen
real crime profile wherever you get your podcast
Transcript generated on 2020-02-12.