« Dirty John

The Real Thing | 1

2017-10-02

Debra Newell, an interior designer in Southern California, meets John Meehan on an over-50 dating site. His profile looks exciting: Anesthesiologist, divorced, Christian. She falls in love fast. But her children dislike him and warn her that his stories don’t add up. A psychologist advises Debra to set firmer boundaries with her kids, saying she has a right to be happy.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
A listener note. This story contained adult content and language. There are a total of thirteen stout wanted, which penetrated the body there, all arbitrarily numbered from one, the thirteen eight wounds noted in the left side and upper back the shoulders. Popular area where one number one is on the top of the left shoulder sitting in the office of a man who prosecutes murders for a living argue his name. Matt Murphy he's a veteran assistant district attorney who handles homicides out of Newport Beach, California, all of them if you're from somewhere else and have a mental picture of Orange County about an hour south of La Newport Beaches, probably part of that image it's the side of the county that the tourist guides wants you to see. Pacific Coast highway runs through it luxury shopping peers and serve shops and plastic surgeons, yachts and cliffside mansions, I used to cover the city is a crime rapporteur for local newspaper their work.
Lot of murders, maybe on a year or two or three in a very bad here. Greed or last figured prominently in the most memorable ones these days, if you The rare people who meet a violent death in Newport Beach, Matt Murphy, is the prosecutor who will hear about it. Shoulder to The homicide case that land and on his desk in the summer of twenty sixteen was particularly violent. And it was unique and his experience number five is on the left more to the upper armoury. Number six seven and eight are close to the Midland region of the upper back. All of these stones for are superficial. Won't they have all been suture metallic, stable, sutures Murphy is reading the autopsy report, which is part of how he assesses whether there is a prosecutable offence, a homicide is there, killing of one human being by another. He had to decide whether it was a crime or number thirteen which is the fiddle. Wood is the
left. I would one centimeter and size: only room number nine has risen around it and then another Bruce noted around twelve or thirteen. So when you review something like this. What it tells is this young woman thought like hell, dirty jobs, sponsored by Penguin Random House and a good girls guy to murder by Holly Jason. Everyone in Fairview knows the storing popular, school senior was murdered by her boyfriend, then kill himself is all any Could talk about five years later? The tragedy still holds the town, but pimp now, a senior herself can't you feeling that there was more to what happened that day. She decides to re, examine the clothes case and soon discovers a trail of dark secrets of someone in Fairview doesn't want him digging around and have her own life might be in danger. This is a story of an investigation, turned obsession.
Twists and turns, and with an ending you'll, never expect a good girls guide to murder by Holly Jackson find your Conny wherever books are sold. From the LOS Angeles Times and wondering this is dirty John, I'm Christopher offered part one, the real thing in the fire of twenty fourteen, Deborah Newell was flipping through profiles on our time, a dating site for singles over fifty. Eighty four stranger wanted to get to know her. She took a chance on three guys. She had coffee with one dinner with another breakfast the third they were older unless handsome than their profile pictures. There wasn't any chemistry
damn renewal, has hazel eyes and hide cheek bones and wavy blonde hair when she's authorities, a man, threw himself on the hood of her car begging for a date. For years, attracting men had been his easy is walking into a room. Now, Was fifty nine married and divorced four times her for kids were grown and she had a flourishing interior design business. She wanted them and to travel with in share her success with she worried that was too old for another chance at love. She tried sighed again. Some one else wanted to meet her. This guy checked every box. Look very successful according to everything it took us profile. He posted a few pitcher said he was a position, so I thought interesting seemed safe
so we started talking John Michael me hand had thick dark hair and a big, warm friendly, smiled and invited trust. If you see His smile on a billboard you'd want whatever he was selling they looked at whether a body might have one spin and all american quarterback on a trading card exchange to texts than phone calls. He said, he was so my type I just wish. I was well said I wasn't his type so his title? Ok, good, that's a good thing and he sent me. Yours have him pictures of him said little boy Christian said that he gonna my church said. I got mariners wording because that's where I go said that I had Kids grandkids goes, oh, how lucky you are, I would love to meet them. She lived in
about an hour south of LOS Angeles. They met at her penthouse. She grabbed her Chanel back. And they walked down the block to a casual dining restaurant called Houston's where they found it The bar John was fifty five six for two with broad shoulders. He had flawless teeth. A strong John Hazel Green eyes. He focused on her intently Deborah wore black good. He stiletto heels and designer genes Johns. The care, almost nothing about his clothes. You look like an overgrown college guy with his preppy sure and his shorts I don't know like a frog. I never grown up here, exactly that's what they look like. Smart and charming and articulate he was divorced with two daughters, He said he had houses in Newport Beach and Palm springs
that he was an anesthesiologist just back from a year and Iraq, where he had worked with doctors without borders, heat stories about being on the front line. Jumping out of a helicopter. Talked about what we wanted out alive. He asked lot of questions about my business and how it works. I thought it was a good trade that he's more interested me, then I himself, I think it's him when the conversation goes back and forth, Does she was still stung by her last boyfriend, who had complained that she put on some weight, but John told her that she was beautiful and she stopped his heart. Member him rub my bag, you're, sitting side by side. He moved very fast. They kiss that night back at her place. He wanted to go further. He did not, and to leave even threw himself on her bed and said this feels incredible:
She was getting uncomfortable shadow, insist he leave him. She had to kick him out. The next day she was back in her office a little sad. She tried to lose self. In her work there were all Deadlines should spend thirty years building her business, Ambrosia Interior Design and she was a name and are field. She supervised a team of devoted designers, marketers and project managers, like to hire single women and mothers, because she could remember how it felt to be alone with one child and another on the way after her first marriage broke up. She took me through her Orange warehouse in Irvine, its biggest supermarket and crammed with sofas, modern art mirrors frames and a thousand other furnishings She drums her fingers on an elegant object in the shape of an inflated below fish. It looks to me like a vase bird. She calls at a ceramic decorative ball com.
That's a wide and cream scheme. They pull long white, If it's a grey, more of a restoration look, they pull those such as depends on the skin, in people walk into one of Deborah mules model homes, their invited to age in their futures. In them she calls them approachable dreams. Her warm flawless rooms, are like glossy ads in upscale lifestyle magazines, no kids, toys dirty dishes, inside none of them scientists, have actual living one whole section of dampers warehouses shelf after shelf of hard back books coordinated by color, because books make nice furniture, imperfect homes. Little nod to culture, though the pages inside might as well be blank and yours when the books again his eyes report by color, like Ulysses, Blue Bombay Scheme Cream or paw.
And bathed and cream books so, depending on what the color scheme is and where do you get libraries? I go run on Saturdays Club books. I loved you, read it It's really become something. That's a little bit of a hobby mine to go around fine books. So our Box bluebooks Navy books, like rain yellow brows in the books themselves. Don't matter. Well, we don't want anything. This is death or sex on it. So we have to stay awake now. Guys. Aren't you wake up those roles yourself now the builders, then it's like the face. You show someone on a date. You're inviting summoned a fantasize about the peace that may complete his or her life. If your
Their are loneliness are desperation, show too soon you're done. Maybe that had been Johns mistake, one debars daughters was working with her on the day after her disaster estate with him she told her about it. I don't want chirk. Like I said I can eliminate him later. Day John called her, he told her. He was sorry. He knew he'd overstepped the wanted to spend every minute with her when she gave him another chance. I still attracted to him So am I curious to hear what he had to say and, of course he persuaded me he showed up for dates and his faded blue medical scrubbs as a fresh from surgery, even war them do a full
Even more than do a formal dress, cancer benefit, she invited him to some people sniggered, but she thought busy doctor second or third day. He was telling her. He loved her, that on it a merrier two weeks after they matching email them so you are the real thing with a smiley face and Mogi and he replied. Best thing that will ever happened to you. Ask me out of it and he began spending the night regularly at her Irvine Penthouse this alarmed, Twenty four year old daughter, Jacqueline who live there with her Jaclyn thought he looked homeless. She remembered the first time she saw him out there,
Ice from all the second, I opened the door. I just kind of looked at him had to tell him. I thought to myself: oh this lose their keep, didn't, carry herself very well His body was kind of moping around. He looked very focused his eyes. Going from one corner of the room to the other, as if he was scanning thinking pretty hard about something. He had a lot going on in his mind, he was pretty com. Even at a glance. Deb Renewals penthouse reflected money. There were black velvet. Nineteen chairs, a glass cocktail table fine art on the walls, including to a regional Salvador. Dolly paintings Jaclyn had a collection of expensive bags and purses. I have a date for I keep Birchen bags and late re nicer.
Their hands. I had it in my office area and he walked in and said what do you have in the safe KEDO and ice. None of your business and I slipped the door closed behind him. I believe that was my second interaction with him, and then I told my Mama sheep better at this creep out of the house, or I don't plan on looking- was her. Deborah wasn't surprised by the criticism she often aspirated, her kids with her taste and men, and they found some bad to say about anyone. She dated eighteen her endure one bad relationship after another, Over the years, man had yelled at her hit her in her money. Soon she and John or quietly looking for a place together, they found a house on the boardwalk on Balbo Island in Newport Beach, the rent was sixty five hundred dollars a month. Put down a year in advance, he didn't
his name on the lease tax problems. He said after Jacqueline's over hostility, Deborah wasn't about to tell her kids John, would be moving in with her. She knew it. Say that she was moving too fast, acting with her heart, repeating old mistakes. Her kids didn't see was how He treated our day by day better than her husband had how broader coffee in the morning and gotta groceries how he took Estralla and Ranger Overend for maintenance, sometimes even carried her purse for her. She was convinced that they'd understand how wonderful he was once they got to know him. And she knew that if any of her kids would give him a chance, it was her youngest terror
Terror Newell was twenty three and is quiet and non confrontational, as her sister Jacqueline was assertive. If Jaclyn was the street wise family rebel terror was the pleaser. The first word people used to describe her was sweet, Taro, Isn, T dogs and zombie shows church and country music, some twenty three tattooed on her foot. She had our moms blonde, hair and soft manner. She was an avid hiker Fit but physically small, with gentleness that made her seemed smaller. Still She was living outside Vegas with her boyfriend. They admitted had store where they both worked and had bonded, where the walking dead terror taking online dog roaming classes for years. Terror had watched, man come in and out of her moms life,
She knew her mom like to take care of people and try to see the best in them. Sometimes she trusted to easily so Tara felt protective of her mom. Should I crash and some men went by and say they were christian, just a charm, her and they were going to church her, but they wouldn't be involved or have a personal connection with alarm, wondered why a guy who sounded as good as John would still be single. She wanted to have a look at him a few days before thanksgiving terror and her boyfriend Jimmy Grab drove out to Southern California. For a few days, John was her. Deborah move into a new rental house on the water at six foot to John was physically imposing and he towered over terror by a full foot. My person passion at the sky we walked in,
and he just didn't really want to say hi to us. In return, say hive ahead. He gave us like a quick hi endless We try to help movements tat. She had her. Three dogs her, including her miniature australian shepherd cash. We win into the House the dogs there inside and they were roaming around their very shares, picking up from my energy from John and Johns Energy. Just he wasn't a thrill Send me ass. I just Maybe he might be shy or something else might be going on. Jimmy saw Johns behaviour was odd. He often strained, as he tried to move Debars queen mattresses. No handedly. It try to throw the mattress a few feet from Omnia wrestling downstairs and answer. The car is just sit and wasn t any help me.
Childlike his escape for real written, looking at each other, like is the scope for real written. Hey he's just really overdue and for no reason seem like is China. Press officer or Debbie Herb or both I'm kind of ego trip they that he had while and show me we're. Staying and Deborah spare bedroom. Deborah was trying to maintain the illusion that John wasn't really living there. He moved in after knowing or just five weeks, here's Tara bought the second day we stay there. I went into her back to get some q tips and his staff for his just all there and then I question her about it. I was like wires surf here. He told me he was moving in because he only known her for two months, and she couldn't shake a few questions if he had houses in Newport Beach in palm springs. Why had? Who been allowed to see them
Why was he always driving moms cars instead of his own car? Why did he? to spend all day playing call of duty on the seventy HP, Asthma tv mom had bought for the house if he was a doctor Why did he seem to owe nothing but a few old clothes. Everyone has a bad day. Even A bad weak happens every once in a while. A bad week turns into a bad month when the ordinary acts of getting through the day seemed too much when what should be carefree moments, get lost or occluded by your own thoughts and feelings. It's time to realize you might need to talk better help is here, for you better help will assess your needs and match you with your own licence, professional therapist. It's not a crime
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teriyaki actions based on the real case files when unsolved homicide, spanned more than twenty years watch all episodes in any ordered to follow the evidence. Who would you believe street interrogation now by signing up for a free trial of CBS, all access go to CBS dot com, slash dirty John try. One week, free CBS, dot com, slash dirty job to stream. All episodes of interrogation today Irish is confused behind to be honest, is story about having the three cars and the house to make a lot of sense. To me, a call bs on that terror was looking through a closet when she found a box of John stuff. There was a nursing certificate with his name on it? I dont know that man, a culture that might So I just thought he had a nursing certificate. On top of that, you sociologists degree or whatever.
And I said I found his nursing certificate to my mom like how'd, you think he's not living in fear. She told me he was giving his stuff, but she was getting his stuff frame. For him and that's why I was there terror was satisfied with the explanation and she did something. Deborah was not accustomed to from her quietest, most docile daughter for the first time in terrorist life. She lashed out screamed at her mother. Why was she lying Why didn't you just admit that he was living there? My mom- came up before him. Why me? Why are you asking me this in style and then he came up. Behind her just screaming I'm in the back bedroom, and I is here a bunch of yelling and all of a sudden terror runs to the back bedroom. Crying hysterically in John, isn't too far behind burst into the room again
it just happened so quick, just like the flip switch a switch You see me of wanting to take my mama away from him. And also accusing me of snooping through his things, which I didn't, but because he said it Mme question: what are you trying to hide? ice cream back, because I don't like things he was saying in one sense, Not me it's hard for you not to have a reaction of I'm just going. She should have been slipping through his staff in his It would have been punished for this being spanked in and smack he deaf, I was trying to take. Control is deftly sticking his chest out trying to take command position either. I had a broken hand at the time, so I was just kind of felt like I couldn't do anything in their mama except stand up for terror, and he he definitely didn't like that.
Gagged, could tell they issue is more scared than anything because he was very brooding mailed dominant personality type before that we have really seen now, it seemed to see now kind of cool suave, Yo Newport Beach. Looking guy Debbie and John kicked us out that night, and it was just a very emotional, very scary event, especially on thanksgiving you you'd expect their family would be brought closer, other even remember. Tying Debbie, as we were walking out in I thought Thanksgiving was about family and not boyfriends, and tell them that God to her, because I think she was turned to realize who and what she is giving up just for this guy. We were not welcome, therefore, things because
There was a sad and he was living there, so that chief came out, but he was living there. Yeah I yelled at her to because I told her I was like: how can you let this guy talk to me is that it weighs a felony? my screen, my hair eyes. So how can you open? guy talk to me like this. Is your home a daughter just my leg, what's going on Let me live over him some day. Was there. John had explanations for her kids hostility to him, they were jealous, They wanted her money. They were waiting for donation for die, so they could collect
and he had an explanation for why he had a nursing degree, the called himself a doctor he said he also had a phd which earned him the right to the title and he added straining anesthesiology the day after the blow out the family gathered for the big thanks Having party at the Balboa Island House, it was empty the ball, to ignore the sudden fishers in the family and possible to ignore tears absence, others were willing to give John a chance. Like but his mother, Arlene she adored him. We were standing, The window looking at the ocean and the bay, I should say, and an eye just kind of cuisine him and he was very nice. He will, but he never really dressed up. It was just coming hacking. Looking.
I thought for Thanksgiving Day we always drift out, put our family and made a real special day, and here he comes down and is looking pre sloppy, but I thought well, we worked hard and that Turkey for him to do that and we just kind of talked about little things in dipole. Debbie later I said. Oh, I think he's a great guy. You know you just very nice and courteous, and it was very kind to me when Jaclyn showed up her cousin told her John wanted to have a private word with her in the alley behind the house. I would like hell. No, this is not happening right now. I have nothing to say to you anything that he wanted to say to me. It could have been said in the house in front of everybody. So
did not appreciate that all and not prompted me to say some bad things about leg. I I think he's the all and he's just a loser. Piece of shit old everybody, and then I left the home to John. This was or evidence that debars kids were spoil than out of control his words tugged at debars thanks I agree that maybe they were, she thought she could use a professionals, objective advice. She found a psychologist and the cycle. I told her that our kids didn't have a right to run her life. She was fifty nine. If this was the man she chosen, it was her business so there. Then, the psychologist starts working with need have boundaries with girls. So I was told, to give them rules if they can moreover, they have to be invited over a can't
stay calm. First, that I have a right to hang upon them. A servant, a yell at me, then that I deserve happiness. Just like you do in our country. That we are going to hang up on. You should teaching me tonight allow them to have behaviour like that towards me and John loved it. I agree with you. This is great. At their house on the boardwalk have floor to ceiling windows that made you feeling we're sitting atop Newport Harbor. It had a rooftop deck where they could watch the sailboats and the Great yacht slide over the waves.
John, like to wear baggy Swenson sweatshirts, with the logo of the University of Arizona where he had gotten an undergraduate degree. Everything said size, mess in terms swore tat any had the fag is pan. She took him to buy a closet full of new clothes. They went to Brooks Brothers, he would tracking fun. I say now go back. Let me come out of that. I like that. That's good bye. She bottom some shoes designer genes treasures. That's good bye. She bottom some shoes designer genes, trash shirts, slacks, a black tweed sport co, some form fitting cashmere sweaters deep Burgundy Navy blue, better, returns and pastels, cable worker here looks better with true colours.
Blues. I didn't. I didn't read more winder winter tones jewel tones. Where'd. You got it can visit this union. He said Trust me I went on. I wanna play issue, so I dressed him It's like my new doll. He said everything was stolen when he was in Iraq. So every day now he was begging her to marry him. She resisted she loved but she knew her kids would be furious in early December. She was driving a Vegas on business and he was tagging along. Why not dropped by the courthouse while they were in town, he was quite exciting. I a little more nervous and kept scene. I can't wait to be, married to you in just
I'm so in love with you and so on. I felt that this an opportunity to love again. Deborah. Will you take John to be your wedded husband? So, let's, together and bonds of marriage, there's a video of the ceremony there, in a dreary room against a wall with a plant covered trellis and as the look of spur of the moment decision. John. Wearing jeans and an untouched shirt kindest sloppy Deborah, is and stylish slacks he's beaming down at her. He chuckles a little ass. He tries to get the ring on her finger guys afterward, they celebrated with lemon drop martinis. They had known each other less than two months. No one had been invited to the wedding. She didn't tell anyone. It was all a secret she kept.
The secret, as the weeks passed and Christmas approached the family play they have their traditional Christmas, get together at the home of Debars eldest daughter, Nicole Jaclyn refused to go, terror was torn, She desperately wanted to spend the holiday with her little nieces and nephews, but she did wanna, be around John Terror again near my mom, went to therapy to try to work things out and be able to have a Christmas together, and we worked out that John was not to be around the kids Sal, He wanted to be involved and then and then I got there hanging out for a while with them, and then he shows up with my mom John was still asked her boyfriend as far as anyone knew he sold in with his arms full of presence for the children. Dozens of presence, Deborah
but he will not directly that the kids incited opening more than an all very offended by that, because that wasn't me with disgust as Deborah remembers that he didn't do anything wrong. He brought in the press. Sat by himself in the dining room table and the kids came up to him. Who could blame him for that and he was good with kids. They brought out the playful side that she found so endearing Everyone agrees: what happened next terror? again crying hysterically making a scene to handle this. You don't have to hang out near him. Just you know, go hang out in the other room and she was fit to be tied and she said you promised that he wouldn't play with the kids. I go. What am I supposed to do he's sitting right there
I go. It's sort of a tough situation just have to let it go Tara's grandmother didn't understand why she was so upset. Here was Tara sitting in the family room by herself, just crying her eyes out just trembling and crap Oh, she was hysterical. She would not. She said I do. Finally, she said and I was getting upset with for doing that, I thought you know. This is terrible. All of our family medium for Christmas and she was just sitting there shaking and just crying Tara knew what people were thinking. There she goes again being over emotional. She was the youngest in the family. Her dad had left the house when she was young and she'd been. After by nannies during the years her mom built her business. She knew some people still thought whereas the little girl who needed attention it was
sometimes a fight to be taken seriously and she would question the intensity of her own feelings. She always kind of got upset about things and I sat down and hot you're about, and I don't care I dont like in there's something labelling light don't liking in early twenty four, Teen terror was back home in Vegas with Jimmy and their dogs. Tara wasn't Talking to her mom. She just hoped John would go away She was, unlike her sister Jacqueline back, an Orange county who had decided to take aggressive staff stem, make him go away, got a minute- that's all need to be transported to a new world filled with one an adventure best feed
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Jaclyn was angrier and more suspicious by the day, more than My mom would call and ask if she'd borrowed cash from her while it money was missing, Jack on told her to keep a better eye on it, and I wouldn't besides. No, you know it Didn't go out of my way to your office or anything like that to go. Take her borrow money from you. How many places did you bring your purse today? Not we could it be that loser your dating, but it could be Annie. It's just. She has a lot of little opportunity. Is that people now you can't trust will take advantage of because she so nice she doesnt, protect herself very well. She doesn't see the danger in a lot of situations other unsettling things were happening like the texts Jacqueline would. See from her moms number, and I knew that the reply, or not coming from a long it wouldn't.
Either way that she would type out her text message. He wouldn't spell his words or she would you just like slang in my long she's, pretty proper person when she's text messaging. You know she is this capitals periods and such like on Chris. My I was talking to my mom and she said turning phone off. Merry Christmas, I was like us with my mom: doesn't want to talk to your Chris Jaclyn thought her mom had no idea who this man was. She decided to find out. I just hence, She tread and such a good intuition about John being evil person that I've like I needed more facts and more evidence, because just me, like liking him and thinking that he's a an untrustworthy purse. Then, is an unlawful sir,
Tom. I long could look like old people are just jealous that I am happy or it could be taken into so many different contexts. She started watching Johns movements. John, would leave the although island house in the morning in his medical scrubbs striving Deborah Tesla and come back in the afternoon He said he wasn't affiliated with any particular hospital. They travelled between clinics and oh Ares. Doing anesthesia we work as needed, so I my mom what he was doing all the time with her car, and she says I don't know- I don't know where he goes during the day he puts on his grandson and you goes to work in said: are you sure you wanna? Would it be? Ok if I put a charter on your car one day, to find out where we're going and said sure, but a track from my car. If you open your truck round my car,
Deborah says she doesn't remember agreeing to this, but Jaclyn insists that she did. She showed me a picture she took when she attached the tracker. The First time stamped one thousand one hundred and thirty four p dot m on February. Second, two thousand and fifteen had been in our moms life about four months. At this point she says she bought two trackers online actually and put them in Rotation one would be on the car while she charged the other she could ma Let our Johns movements on her laptop or Iphone. She began studying the strange roots. He took a round southern California looking for patterns and clues unjust. That he would go to different doctors offices and then he would go to a warehouse and she would usually go to a post office. It was usually fast food would always pull over and get shifted, and then he would the gas station, and then he would go to a few.
One or two doctors office says Not in the area they wouldn't be Irvine. They would be. I must mention the eight: how or one doctors office looked like it was an ass India go and then the Tesla would come all the way back up the coast, sometimes like Beata charging portal. So I couldn't figure out what he was doing. I thought that may be he was getting scripts for oxy. Or like drugs that and probably selling them on the street or maybe keeping them in a storage facility, so I couldn't figure out all of that, but I was definitely trying my hardest. None of it amounted to proof, none of it was the severally incompatible with his story. These were fragments of a puzzle.
Jacqueline knew. She had to be careful about what she told her mom. It could get back to John. She didn't want to be dismissed as a meddler in her moms business. Did you let anybody else now that you're driving. Did you tell only right away friends, but he thought I was crazy. He was like you shouldn't get involved with this. Scary, like it'll all pay, your mom will find out that I was like no Will you dont know my mom? She is so sweet needs. Somehow there's something You should know about the new or family, a homicide more than three. Decades old that HANS the sub text of this story and ways large and small. In nineteen. Eighty four debars older sister Cindy. I've been trying to escape a bad marriage. She told people are husband, was controlling and possessive one afternoon he pressed a handgun against the back of her neck and killed her with his
no bullet. It was the reason Deborah hated guns. It was. There, and she refused to have a gun. Around long after people began warning her that she needed one. On the next episode of Dirty John here it s right here in picture he had three five hundred dollars. If I was one fifty plus three thousand four hundred and fourteen dollars a SIG Sauer, here. He was trying to get different gun part in his John is reported and written by me, your host Christopher Golfer, for the LOS Angeles Times Karen Low is our producer and editor
design by Jeff Schmidt, executive producers. Jeff, Glaser and her Nan Lopez for wondering over the course. Production or early times team has included, shall be grants the cloud Robert makes and Dave on. You can the story and allay times dot com were putting up installments as these episodes AIR We also love to learn more about you. Go to wonder he come forward slash serving.
Transcript generated on 2020-02-12.