Welcome everyone to a special episode of Dissect. I'm your host, Cole Kishna. I am respectfully. A temporary pause on our current season on MF Doom and Mad Villainy. One of the wildest weekends I have ever experienced in terms of music. Of course and Kendrick Lamar's ongoing feud that erupted in epic proportion this weekend. Barring any dramatic events that might occur this week, I will be resuming the MF Doom season next week. But for now we're going to do a two part episode today. Part one, which you're listening to right now is a conversation between myself and the ringers, Justin Sales and Charles Holmes.

Timeline of events and songs mostly focusing on this past weekend giving our opinions we try to declare winner at the end and we cap it off by ranking our favorite three tracks that came from this beef. Part two which is also available right now Is a line by line day section of Kendrick Lamar's euphoria. Yes, I couldn't help myself. I started working on it essentially immediately after it came out before the events occurred this weekend. It's all valid analysis. And if you're a fan of Kendrick Lamar, I think you'll definitely enjoy that episode There are some really great references on Tondras wordplay some really great Stuff I think you'll enjoy. I was surprised by many of the findings. So hope you guys enjoy both parts. It's been one hell of a week that's for sure and again we're going to resume our doom season next week next Tuesday but in the meantime Here's my conversation with Justin Sales and Charles Holmes. and

It is 2 p.m. West Coast time on Monday afternoon. As of right now, Kendrick Lamar-- Has not responded to Drake's latest diss track, The Heart Part 6. Justin Sales, the music lead for The Ringer, and Charles Holmes, as you guys know from Last Song Standing. A part of the Midnight Boys. We are here to discuss, I think what is... It's one of the most significant music history events that we'll probably experience in our lifetime. Through the timeline of events, we're gonna get our takes, we're gonna maybe determine a women are at the end but first let's just get a temperature how you guys feeling? Charles, let's start with you. Welcome back to the show and what are you feeling? Uh, thank you for having me. There are times in a career, you know? There are times in a career, especially at the ringer.

Where the machine is gonna get its blood and we have not only the music lead, but my editor on this podcast. My life has been ruined. I did not. I was like getting fucked up on the weekend, waking up hungover with text being like, what? you wake up Charles, hit me up. So I would be like writing, hungover, I'm like, I'm gonna take a nap. And then I'd wake up again and Justin would be like, Kendrick dropped again. And I was like, I almost threw my phone. I was like, fuck. I'll be done, but you want to know how I feel now, Cole? Yeah.

Where I played a willingly played a Kendrick track in my car blasted it and rolled down the windows and like we're here you have no idea as if you know my my my fandom for Kendrick Lamar and you history that makes me so happy I know that's why I'm so interested Justin how about you Well first of all, I'm prepared for Charles to drop his diss song to me at some point in his episode, so we got that going for us. Happy to be here and I'm happy to be here to discuss a rat beef with Cole Kushner where we get to discuss Things like A minor and B sharp. I mean like Charles, do you ever think we see the day where it's like this, the, the rat beef has gotten so specifically into. Coles wheelhouse that we're gonna break out the MIDI controller movie are we? I mean there was it's so funny because seeing we

Being Cole's colleagues and friends, I get to see him breaking down stuff in real time. And there was one part of our group channel where Cole is like, Yo guys! The song is in A minor, and then you're like, Actually-- It's not. This is Cole to a T bro. Oh I got so excited. Yeah he drops the A minor line and I was... I was doing the key, the check, the key of the song I was doing on my phone. Half these songs I listened to because. It came out so late when I was putting my girls to bed. So like literally I had headphones on listening to these. Distracts while I'm laying next to my daughter put here to bed. So it's like the circumstances under which I've been trying to dissect and. And I'll see you in the next video. Children in while meet the grams is playing in your headphones no okay we're gonna get

there. Specifically that, because that one I did, I was literally not to get too personal, but I would. Was putting my, I've lay with my youngest daughter before, uh, and wait for her to go to sleep before I leave the room. Listen to that song in the dark, in the room. It was awful. It was... That sounds terrible, bro! It was not pleasant. We'll get there, but that was a dark moment just in general. But there's been highs and lows. We'll talk about them all. Let's get into the timeline. So we're going to, we're going to spend the majority of our time on the, on this past weekend, but we got to kind of set that up. So. our October 6th, 2023 Drake and J. Cole release First Person Shooter.

The inciting incident. We didn't know it back then but everything can be traced back for this specific blow up. I think everything can be traced back to first person shooter and J. Cole and Drake teaming up and kind of gloating about their dominance. Hip-hop. Six months later we get Metro Boomin and Future's album. Don't trust you which of course features like that this is March 22nd and all hell breaks loose April 5th J Cole is First one to respond to like that with seven minute drill two days later he apologized we're gonna spend too much time on this The apology was clouded in the moment, but it's looking better and better as time has And then we get the real response I think everyone was waiting for. April 13th, Drake's push-ups, a rough draft of it leaks online.

Which then pushes Drake to release the actual finished version To act on streaming. Major thing I want to talk to you guys about is Drake's first response. So the main angle he took on Kendrick was this relationship between Kendrick and Drake. And top dog and Kendrick claiming he was being exploited while on TDE. He also kind of was poking fun at Kendrick being short. Uh he also takes aim at future Metro Weekend Rick Ross. John Moran John Moran wages fires the job Moran if you do some research on it, you're like that probably was the greatest shot to take. Yeah, to just call attention on that. So let's pause here. Justin,

You think about push-ups in the moment and now that it's aged what are your thoughts on specifically push-ups did it work is it a good song what are your when it dropped in the group chat and shout out logan Murdoch, who is on the group chat with us from real ones. I think I was higher on this song than everyone immediately. I thought it worked. I thought that there were a lot of things that I could do. Out of really clever lines. I thought especially when like the finished version dropped later that afternoon with the beat that kind of interpolated Biggie's What's Beef? This was a good song. I thought it was curious that he removed some of the more interesting lines from the original version, like some of the ones fired at Rick Ross. Um I really thought in that moment that if this was gonna turn out to an it turned into an all-out bloodbath, which it did I Thought that Drake had a chance to win. I didn't think that

We can get into will get into this. Are we gonna get into this? I don't see it on the timeline So get into this right now Within three hours, I did not think that though because the second that Rick Ross dropped And you you just Rick Ross dropped and of course had that monologue at the end and I mean he's saying a lot of things that He was calling Drake a white boy a lot. A little guy, a Chevy white boy, hanging out in the park with the niggas, white boy. Thank you, thank you for the assist on that one Charles. It was really the part that did it for me was the uh, you got the surgery those aren't real abs the you wear We know you got your Dockers with no underwear on. It was like you realize in that moment that it doesn't matter how well Drake raps, Uphill battle because he is the most clownable man ever and I

know if Kendrick had a minute had it in him to do what he eventually did but I was like just simple simply the Rick Ross of this Drake cannot Go at somebody who's funnier than him. He just, he's too clownable. He's going to lose this. - Charles, what'd you think of pushups? Alright, so as the only rap writer alive that is uncompromised by this whole... Thing. Always truthful, non-biased, never picks a side. Push-ups was never the record and people want... They had push-ups to be the record so bad. They were, it was, we've been waiting for this for over a decade, right? And I think when push-ups drops I was like, this is not a bad song, but a I think the genius of what Metroboom in the future did is they divided Drake's attention already. So the Line on push-ups is Metro shut your ho-ass up and play some drums. Like that's way funnier than--

anything he says about Kendrick, and most of the stuff he says about Kendrick, like, yeah, we know Kendrick is short, and he has a-- You knowing his shoe size is also kind of weird a little bit, but I always felt like push-ups just also in terms of like that felt lesser because Drake is supposed to be the artist that makes the hit. Just something to... Here everywhere and push-ups was not like that. I think it debuted on number nine. 18 on the hot 100. And I would honestly say pushups is almost kind of been lost to history. Already like we don't even talk about it anymore. I do like that we're already talking about dividing the attention like Drake is Germany in World War Two. Like like you can't fight a battle on all these fronts and expect to win. It's 20 V one according to him. It's 21. I know, but sorry. Yeah, I think I mean for me push-ups in the moment, I thought it was good. I thought it was a given the

ask of aiming at everyone which he had to do at that point. I think he accomplished... In an opening round and definitely in retrospect an opening round it was a solid effort i it felt like jabs and it turned out to be jabs but i i thought it worked i think it's a solid song but charles i think you're Dead on in that it hasn't really hit in the way like a back-to-back although the high bar but it just hasn't sustained in a way that like that has Of this. Response and if we're just looking at the streaming numbers and like where things are debuting yeah it Wishups kinda got stepped on a lot. I think the main angle he took was a flawed one. And it didn't, I feel like I'd be interested to hear you guys' thoughts. I don't think it landed in the way that maybe he thought it would in terms of Kendrick was being

extorted, top was taking 50% of his royalties, even if he didn't know the fact that Kendrick was out of that deal at the time, which is true. Extortion thing didn't really register to me personally. It didn't seem like a widely did either Justin. What do you think about that part of it? I thought he took the wrong lesson from Pusha T's story of adidon. I thought he heard the M's count differently. And baby divide the pie and it's like ah that's how i'll get them all right this is This line these lines about top dog and Kendrick's contract are coming from A guy who was signed to Baby's label. Yes Like this site - another nigga the side - yeah, that's just bad sign. It's

I mean it's signed to Wayne, signed to Burn Man, signed to Universal. So if you're making the case, it's the same thing as TDE Interscope Universal. It all funnels back to the same shit. it's it's And like I know these guys have both evolved past their initial deals, right? Like they are both like wildly successful, but that's also the thing Had already moved past the deal. Mr. Maroun the big steppers was his last deal with TDE. He isn't even, this. The next video. Monetarily but similar deals where I'm like you both are just signed straight to the label now. So it's They're both under licensing agreements. It sounds like they own their masters and it's this is a very common now So it's yeah, so I'm like, why would the general public give a fuck about? and deals that are not even on the table anymore. It just seemed like a massive.

Miscalculation from I think the rollout, you know, not to get too granular about it, but like I do think the leak, the. Speculation of AI then him having to rush the release through ACK didn't help As case didn't help the impact of it right so just strategically we're gonna talk about strategy a lot that felt like a miss where could have been a bigger moment had it been a little bit cleaner of a release. And I think that kind of deadened some of the impact as well. Do you guys have any more on pushups before I move on? No, you mentioned Ack. I just want to know if we're going to be discussing Ack's inbox in his DoorDash orders. Oh, that was so fun. I mean... As... For those that... For reference, for those that don't know, he accidentally pulled up his email on stream yesterday I guess and like it's just literally DoorDash orders. It was insane. As an editor who's been brought up through the Bill Simmons farm system, I...

Nearly hit up Charles or another writer and was like I want you to do a running diary of this weekend a fake one from the perspective of academics using his DoorDash orders as a timestamp. That would have been a good blog Charles. I'm not giving act anymore. No. No, I still have a soul It's not worth the content Justin Alright, one thing I'll just point out that I think is going to be important, just to remind people, in pushups Drake says... I'd be with some bodyguards like Whitney. This line is the allusion to Kendrick Lamar's partner, say I don't the status of the relationship is unknown but it is alluding to her a lot of people took it as Claim or an allusion to Whitney cheating on Kendrick with one of her bodyguards. It turns out in my

that this is actually her alluding to Whitney being like Whitney Houston who was abused by Blanking on his name. Bobby Brown sorry and so in retrospect I think that was a very very strategic little seed that that Drake planted that Kendrick would 100% understand. But we misinterpreted the line as him saying like, Oh, Whitney Houston in the movie slept with her bodyguard. Well that was the entendre of course, but what we speculated what Drake meant was wrong. Speculated that the entendre was the Whitney Houston bodyguard wordplay, but also that Whitney cheated on Kendrick with body Be the day free angle that he was like day free is obviously not kentrick's bodyguard but someone in his crew yeah we should save this for family matters yeah so

We're not going to spend a lot unless you guys want to, but I don't want to spend much more than we have to on TaylorMade Freestyle. April 24th. After push-ups we get TaylorMade Freestyle everyone knows he uses AI to imitate Tupac and Snoop and then has a third verse as himself essentially toned hunting Kendrick because he hasn't responded. It's been 11 days and uses these hip hop legends that West Coast legends that you know Know we know Kendrick and Meyers to taunt him it was gross and Work it was gross. It was another miscalculation and I do think the only thing I have to say about this I remember people Cheering on Drake like oh no Drake like at least my time was like this is hilarious Drake is doing the thing And I'm just like guys if Drake has to do AI Tupac vocals to you. Needle at Kendrick. Once again, he was waiting for Kendrick to drop.

I was like, maybe he should have just been in the studio making some better songs, because once again, he was on the back foot. Kendrick came outside, it got to a point where we're like, all right, Kendrick's enough, stop, stop, stop, it's good. So, Tailormade is probably was my first inclination where I'm like, I don't think- Is funny enough to win this beef and I don't actually know if he's respecting Kendrick. Enough as an opponent to really just play it cool. - I thought that if you had. Me like five years ago that Drake did something like this I would have been like oh that sounds like that might have been funny but to watch play out in real time and in practice was really pathetic. The only thing I got out of this was, oh, Drake is nervous. - Drake is, it just came across as so insecure. He didn't need to drop the song.

And argue that maybe he was trying to bait Kendrick into responding, but I don't know, that didn't really work out for him. Seems to me like an objective failure, especially considering the fact that a couple days later. Tupac's estate writes a pretty scathing letter and forces him to take it down. Lead it from his IG, which to me is just an automatic loss. Um, so. Strategically not the best move. Yeah, anytime the lawyers have to tell you to take down your diss track, you're probably not doing well. Yeah. Yeah, it just seems short-sighted. Fast forward to April 30th about... Six days after TaylorMade and 17 days after push-ups we get Kendrick Lamar's official response in euphoria this is a six minute three part

Dismantling of Drake's personal character. Um, the, I guess the central angles he takes essentially using this motif of Drake being an actor, a fraud. He undermines his blackness. He undermines the legitimacy of Canada, imitating American music and culture. He predicts... That Drake will fabricate stories about his life and his next response. And also makes it pretty clear that Kendrick is willing to keep things friendly. And personal but warns that if you talk about my family specifically we're going to another level. Euphoria then now as a song what are your thoughts? do you want my thoughts as a listener as a person who plans music coverage at the at the ringer because

Let's give, let's do both if you don't mind because that's gonna be my take because I'm gonna give you my take as a fan and as someone that's trying to stay objective so... I'm not even talking about the objectivity, but just from a simple perspective of I know Second, he responded, I knew that this meant that Drake was going to respond soon. I knew that the second this song dropped, we were on the clock. I kind of had a feeling that things were gonna head to where they had headed this weekend, where they went this weekend. That song dropped very early in the morning on the west coast. It dropped at like 8 a.m. at first. So I wasn't exactly sure how I felt about it. I didn't love the beat. I was trying to listen on some busted laptop speakers on a MacBook that if anybody from Spotify. It's listening. I need a new one. So just just holler you can find me on slack But

When I finally got around to listening to it later that afternoon I was like, oh He's got something here This is not a career ender. This is not the end of this. This is not even this is not going to end this beef. This is not as vicious as it can get. Really good diss song. And I'll just say this. I'll do a little plug because of your listeners might not visit the ringer.com on Tuesday the day that this pot is going up we're putting up a massive diss track ranking of all the diss tracks all the great diss In rap history. And I had it at like number 33, 34. It's that good, but it's not like the knockout blow. It's not what I thought was going to win this decisively for Kendrick. But I don't know. Now.

The I hate the way that you walk, the way that you talk, I hate the way that you dress That is an energy. The next video. Know we were going to get out of Kendrick. It probably should have been a sign of where we were heading this weekend, but I don't know, I think it's a great diss track that-- Is probably also gonna be kind of lost after what happened in the last few days Charles. What do you think fine? It was like, here's the thing. It's a good, Euphoria is a good diss song, but I felt that with- Sheps in Euphoria, it still felt like both of these guys had their finger over the-- Clear codes and neither wanted to press it first Yeah, where I was just like I give you for you more credit because I never thought I'd say this but Kendrick I think you'd

Be naturally more funny than Drake. Like I still hear people saying, is it the braids? Like it's. It's just so, I think you can tell kind of what cloth Kendrick is cut from. Where he loves battle rap. Here's the thing, we know what Dennis Graham looks like and still. Kendrick ending on, We don't wanna use a nigga no more. Like it's, it's so dumb. But it's effective, and I think that would, Euphoria was the sign for me where, at first it was like, eh, this is kinda mid, and then I-- got a haircut and my barber and I were like, Yeah, he's not doing that much. We're like, Let's just play it one more time to see. And he played... And I go, actually, this is a lot more effective. The longer I listen to it. - I think that's the one thing I'll say is when I finally get around to listening to it like later that day when it dropped on Spotify,

In headphones and I finally got a chance to like sit with it and listen to it a couple times. It hits so much harder. I'll just say that I think this is a perfect example of the difference between Kendrick and Drake, right? Where a song like Push-Ups you're gonna get on one... Or two listens and me as a Kendrick fan and having studied his music pretty extensively in the past seven years You know, his obviously his music offers layers and it in my opinion gets better with each listen. I actually thought had similar thoughts That's on initial impression, just the first listen of like, not actually sure what I felt about it, but the more and more I listened to it. And especially after. Doing a line by line dissection of it last week. Just as a Kendrick fan, I'll say at this point in the beef, like I was so happy to get a six minute song from Kendrick Lamar.

Are. You forget from a Kendrick's fan perspective, getting music from him is few and far between. Regardless if he's going at Drake the whole song to get a six minute three part lyrical and Delivery display like this in this epic fashion. As a fan I was I was very much and just happy to have a new Kendrick Lamar song strategically I agree With both of you it just felt like jabs it felt like I'm gonna get personal in spots but for the most I'm just attacking your character. This is all fair game in a battle like this. It's pretty standard stuff didn't get too Personal with family or revealing any kind of details didn't really allude to. Mean he alluded to the some of the grooming allegations, but just in very subtle ways never outright saying it. I'm like the euphoria

I talk about a lot if you listen to the second part of this episode I talk about a lot But it's never, it's not like, not like us where it's just outright making claims. Me strategically and and he does very much and very transparently worn at the very end of the song I'm drawing a line in the sand and that line is my family. And if you talk about my family, we're taking this to a dark place, but I'm happy to keep this a friendly spar. He says that pretty directly. And so just from a strategy in terms of this thing pushing forward. There was a line in the sand drawn which unless you guys have anything else on Euphoria I have I have one more thought that one of the things about This battle to me is the first major major major rap battle in the stan era right it is

Obviously, there were people who were Jay-Z fans, and there were people who were Nas fans, there were people who were Tupac fans, there were people who were Biggie fans, and there wasn't... Anything you could do to move some of those people off of what they believe. But we are so firmly entrenched in that right now where just people fight on social media for the for their artists that they stand for and I think to this Point in the battle, it felt like we were never going to get a true winner because... Everybody went in with their mind made up on either they are a Drake fan or a Kendrick fan or Or possibly not even a Kendrick fan, but just a massive Drake hater. Doesn't seem like there were a lot of Kendrick haters out there, right? Doesn't seem like there was anybody just frothing at the opportunity to jump. On

Of like, this is gonna go on forever, because nobody's ever gonna move off of. Guy won. No, this guy won. Right. It just like, euphoria was very good. And after a couple listens, it was clearly better than push ups, but it didn't feel like anything. Was going to be able to move the needle. And I think that's a transition to where we went next. Yeah. And. Quickly before I get there, just so you have pushups or you have euphoria over pushups at this point if you're doing one week - Absolutely, and you've already has a better record than Push-Ups. - Yes. - Not by much to me, but it is. There is a gap. - Yeah. - It also had the ether effect for me where when I first heard it, I'm like, this beat is awful. And then by like the third or fourth listen, I'm like, Ashley, this beat's kind of hard. - Exactly, that was my experience of it too. - Right guys, let's not lie. Kendrick won, let's not lie, all right, please.

Jeez. Okay, now we are the morning of May 3rd. We are three days after... Euphoria. This is Friday morning. Kendrick drops an Instagram-only track called 616 in LA. There's a bunch of... Conspiracy theories about what that those numbers mean that's not not I'm not doing that in this episode maybe maybe in a later date but this was a This to me was the response to TaylorMade in terms of function. This is essentially Kendrick. Hunting drake a little bit and the big reveal here is that he plants he plants the seed As a contact or two inside of OVO's camp that is giving him information and... Photograph that we now know, well, we'll talk about the photograph a little bit later, but that.

Was the main gist. It was just a little, a little taunt, a little jab. I don't know how much you guys want to talk about it, but, uh, it kind of dissipates. After what happens in the evening of the same day. But Justin, you want to say something? - I basically forget the song. Exists. Yeah. It's like Taylor. The only reason we remember Taylor made is because of. AI shenanigans and I think this song is slight in a similar way where it was Like I was starting to get annoyed at this point where I'm like you guys are so afraid of either going-- It was like, who's going to go first? - Exactly. - You know? And I was just like, it wasn't until I think tonight, the record that dropped later that night where I was like. Fucking final somebody finally pulled the trigger fucking first. Jeez. Yeah, so we are now at the evening of May 3rd and Drake drops family matter This is a seven and a half minute song with a video which I thought was kind of a twist

At least. I wasn't expecting someone to have a video, a seven and a half minute video nonetheless. It's a three-part song just like Euphoria. In the video, he destroys a replica van of the Good Kid Mad City van. Braille's jewelry, he flaunts Tupac's ring, he eats at Nuho King, Chinese restaurant in Toronto. The big claims are that he... He uses Kendrick of physically assaulting his partner and claims that day free Kendrick's very good friend and close friend collaborator and co-founder of PG Lang is the father or might be the father of one of his children. He takes shots at Rocky, Weekend, Ross, and Pharrell. And importantly, I would say just in terms of tracking this mole connection that he does not. Make any mention of planting any kind of seeds of misinformation in Kendrick's camp in this song.

So, Charles, what was your impression of Family Matters on the night it came out? already so exhausted. I was like this sucks. And chose you were at a comedy club and we're texting you about it. You're you guys were blowing up my phone. I'm not like a comedy show and you're just like, yo direct just dropped and I'm like, Oh God. And then it was literally like have our like you're like, yo Kendrick dropped and I was like, I literally got into my car and I played both of them. I was like, fuck these two rappers. But did you have a date with you and you had to play though? No, I did not. Okay. All right There was there was a time I was like am I gonna look like a herb if I just put my like my air pods in right now, so I just do it out I'm just I'm just I'm just laughing at the idea of somebody having to be on a date and be like I gotta listen to meet the grams for work So here's the thing

Emily matters has grown on me in a way where I was like, if Kendrick had waited and did not-- Step on it 30 minutes later, I think Family Matters would have been a really decisive blow because-- What Drake is alleging is very just like it is a bomb and I think You guys were sending me like some of the lyrics and whatever. I was like, how does Kendrick come back from this? There was a couple things where he fucked up, the song is too long. I don't know why both of them keep doing this during this diss, but I'm like, can we get like a three or four minute song, why are all of these songs seven or eight minutes? Why do they all have two or three beat switches? It does seem like, at least at this point, I kind of got the feeling where a lot of these beat switches, these were not the same song, or they were like searching for that energy.

Like guys just pick one and I think Drake probably wouldn't have lost that bad if he would have split this in half and had something to respond to meet the grams with but I think that this is quite easily the best drink response of this whole entire thing yeah um it just unfortunately The next one. Goes way harder on Rocky at the weekend than he goes on at f*cking camp. I was like, Dog, focus. But like the city says about rocky is just it's fantastic It is the city says about Rocky is amazing. I can I cannot rock him. And talk shit again, you know, it's so fucking good. - But also, and this, it's starting off.

Just open his mouth. So a hand me a Grammy right now. That is so fun. I was like This is send this to Cole That's a good line for sure. Yeah, definitely Justin Family matters is a really good diss record. I think that if it had ear to breathe we'd be like if tendrion had not dropped and we had a weekend to talk about this, the entire complexion of this battle would be different. Saying in there is like not just about the Dave Freeh stuff and I look look I think We always have to be careful when we're like talking about things in terms of a rap feud and they get like they start talking about these very ugly things like domestic abuse and like I'm not, I don't want to talk about the claims. I don't want to be like, oh, he got him good by doing like, It gets really ugly really quickly, but there is also some

Piercing of the Kendrick Lamar persona in some ways that I didn't think Drake was capable of or like quite frankly had like the ability to try to do and maybe he didn't but you know kind of talking about trying to turn the Tables on Kendrick and talk about actually you're the one that courts approval from the white audience or you're Who are the one who actually is struggling with your racial identity? Because this is stuff that Kendrick has obviously used against Drake that a lot of people have And for him to do that, I thought was... It's not my place to say whether it landed or not, but there was something about it that's like, huh. Okay, Drake is. Doing something that I he's going to a place I wasn't expecting him to go to and the term

of this battle have changed and there's a good shot Drake could actually do some legitimate damage to Kendrick's career. That's what I felt in the moment. -Well, yeah, I was like 10 minutes late to watching Family Matters after it dropped. The time that I finished that, literally, Kendrick dropped. As soon as I finished watching, so I had no time to process it in the moment. as it... As its own piece without the counter, right? But I can imagine exactly what you're saying, Justin. This does feel like it could have been a huge bomb. If there was an encounter. I think where and I'm just I agree with everything you have you guys have said about it, so I'll just add We'll add on to your point, Charles, in that it's too long. And he, I mean, this is my bias showing, but he's not as euphoria.

A flow and it's very clearly set up in these structures. The intensity... Increases throughout the entire thing like it's very well planned six minute song three-piece song whereas Family feels like a collage of songs he had that he kind of just spliced together and so you don't get that a cumulative effect that I think Euphoria has by the end of the song where you're like Jesus Christ like This is just getting more and more intense. And then he says, can I bleed him? Can I bleed him? And that's when he really starts going in. It's only five minutes into the it's five minutes in the song. And that's when you get the real evisceration. So do you guys think that family matters? Would and you kind of alluded to this Charles but Should he have just went right at Kendrick were those shots at Rocky as good as they were weekend Ross That whole middle section of the song, which you can argue is actually musically, I think, the best and most effective part of the song that didn't have any...

Aims at Drake, I'm sorry, at Kendrick. Did the structure of it, did you try to accomplish too much and again, take This 20v1 approach or should he have just ignored the Rocky Weekend etc part of this and just went straight at Kendrick? Charles what do you think about that? I think honestly where Drake slipped up not just in the planning of it but just the art of it is that I think think family matters narratively and structurally is weak, where it's like, say what you think I do think the quality of Kendrick's records like peaked and dipped not all of them are great But he keeps coming back to similar points ago Don't tell no lies about me. I won't tell no truths about you. You're a master manipulator You're not real everything that you've built up in your life is a fucking lie. Like it's even if I necessarily

As me don't think the authenticity battle is that interesting to me. Kendrick and each record keeps going. Drake, you're a fake ass actor and everything that you built up is a lie and I'm going to show this. I'm going to prove this. Drake's narrative thrust, there's no spine to it. Just like, well, Kendrick, you're sure. And then when that doesn't work, he's like, but also you're fucking. Label deal is fucked up and also I asked him secret about your wife and then he reveals the white thing in the day through and it just he's like Searching for that blow where it seems like Kendrick was a lot more strategic in because he only has to focus on one person he's like Meet the Grahams is not Euphoria is not like us, is not like that. But when I listen to them all in chronological order, I'm like... - Right, Kendrick had, like Kendrick's saying similar stuff and even when he's revealing new stuff,

back to the main thesis, you're a master manipulator, I'm finally proving it, which-- - Yeah. Goes to show you that while I like Drake as an artist better just in terms of the totality of their art, I think Kendrick was way more set up to... As a storyteller, to kind of like pick apart at Drake slowly and concentrate in a way that Drake just didn't have a concentration. I do want to push back on one part. You said the second part was the most effective. I actually think the third part is, you know, setting. The accusations aside, it's also the most effective part because it actually highlights what Drake does really well where I have actually had the melody to that song, to that sing-song flow. I've had that stuck in my head since. Even though like... So many other things have surpassed this in the beef sense. So many other things feel so much more relevant.

Better song that was dropped after this, which we're going to discuss very shortly. That is the thing that has been stuck in my head. And I really think that's the back to back. Playbook as much as like dropping the songs back to back. But like, you know, he turned Drake turned. Disc song into a nursery song with back-to-back and he did it again here to the point where it got like a nursery rhyme and he got it's been stuck in my head and and... Mean, I love the second part. I've seen a lot of people say they like the first part I actually don't care for the first part. It feels like filler to me Do you think you think this song would have hit harder if he chops the first part off? And it's just like one beat switch and a lot shorter. Yeah, because that to me it feels like if he does that, because he references Kendrick very briefly at the beginning of the video. Second part. And that to me, if he chops off the first part and chops off the day free stuff, which everyone has been like, you know, it's. It's been funny seeing people come out and be like, Dave Free is one of the nicest men you'll ever met.

You are you are a huge asshole for doing this what are you talking about that's Only thing I've seen about that since. So get that out of here. I don't care. How cute you thought you were being with the PG stuff. Like just get that out of here. Does the second part and the third part just by themselves? Then it feels like the. Song is building towards something because it starts with a brief mention of Kendrick Then he just gets all these other people out of the way Then he zeroes in on Kendrick and that actually feels effective. I do want to say one part about the second part of the song though the the melody in the the third part has been stuck in my head. I think there's some really effective stuff that he says about Kendrick and a normal beef, but this has been not been a normal beef at all. The Rocky stuff. Is fantastic. The other thing I will take away from that song is God future must be

ever lived. Oh man that's a good point that's a good point. He's basically like his takeaway on future there is like man This really sucks, man. Metro has to be making you act like this, right? Because we're cool, right? Like this is not... Future literally just threw the grenade and walked away and no one has like pressed him since. He's just like, y'all are still fighting? Alright. Do you guys think Future's ever heard the word misogyny? Uh... No, I think you bought that out a long time ago. That's not part of his worldview. Really quick, I do have to ask, not to get too dark. It is a little messed up. Like if I'm in Drake's camp, it's like it's quite it's It was clear early on, I'm like, the tide has turned culturally against Drake so much, where it's like Drake is... Leveling very, very serious accusations against Kendrick. And I was like, even if these are true, I was just like, would that pierce the veil of...

'Cause I'm just like, I don't actually think, we've seen historically, that shit does not really dent. Popularity of these artists, where it's like with Kendrick, I don't wanna say it's both of these. Strategies are very depraved and dark. But Kendrick being like, hey. You have a bunch of pedos in your circle, and you're a groomer, and you run around with underage girls. I think that there are way many more people back through the lyrics, we can like, we have all this TMZ shit, bossup shit, whatever. Kendra can kind of run with that what how true any of what he has whatever but with Drake I'm like you're - You're running with a line that, in rap, how many people will actually stop supporting Kendrick? Well, yeah, I've.

To piggyback on what you said, Justin, can we just ignore the day-free part of this? I don't think that landed culturally and I don't think anyone would care about that. No one's bringing that up. - Right, so. The abuse allegations, I think, I mean, when you think about it too hard, this is all just fucked right? So let me just say that. I think the play... Strategically was that Kendrick has built himself up as this holier-than-thou artist who kind of lectures to his audience and has built himself up as this superior character. And then revealing that he might have done this is a chink in that. You can then discredit that whole perception. In the same way that Kendrick is trying to do the same thing to Drake. Whether, I mean without... I mean Justin on the phone you talked about like the possibility of like a photograph or something graphic coming out. I think

That's really the only kind of bomb that would solidify any kind of career risk, right? Like it. We're gonna talk about the allegations probably a little bit more in terms of like, no one's believing anything at this point. On either side, I don't think. There's just no proof for anything. And so, as dark as it's gotten, it's just... Rumor at this point. And so it's hard to know even what to do with it or even know what to talk about it. I mean, it's even gross that this is how we're quote-unquote learning about it because I'm just like in - Multiple songs you keep hitting it, and I was just like, there are real people involved here that are not Kendrick or Drake. That was when I even when meet the grams drops. That was when I started sensing the exhaustion of people being like like. This has gotten so gross and because there is no reporting on this, there's nothing out here, this just kind of...

Seems like two egomaniacs throwing anything at the wall to seeing what damage sticks, which was like, I felt it with this. With Meet the Grams where I'm like, Maybe we should just end it here, guys. Yeah, let's just get into Meet the Grams because I think that's where we do need to go next. next. Minutes after family matters drops of course kendrick has an immediate counter meet the grams And it's song over one alchemist beat, a fucking eerie beat, where essentially Kendrick talks to. To Drake's son, mother, father, alleged daughter, and Drake himself. The big kind of bombs that we're supposed to do. Be the bombs here were an implication of some kind of sex trafficking happening within OVO. and the big claim I think or the very direct claim was that Drake is hiding another child, an 11 year old daughter.

Tell you my experience of this. I heard this and wanted to go to bed. I tweeted out that out of the beef I texted you guys that this has transcended music and double And I am not very interested in doing anything. With this on either side. It was, it still is. I can't listen to Meet the Grahams. It's just really dark. In terms of the timeline, this moment for me was really dark. I didn't like where things could be headed. This was Scar and the Hoes music. I was one of the hoes and I was literally like... Hoes were in a bunker. The hoes were hiding. Yeah, it was. Because even when it dropped, people were like, Oh no, let's be clear.

This neutralized Drake's record immediately. Like it was a master stroke of genius, but I did get, I was like scrolling through the timeline and that was the point. The party where everyone was like, I think we should go home. Like I think it's about to get shot up in here. You got well even the the reference that I was gonna make is you guys ever seen boogie nights Oh yeah. You know how it's like the last night of the 80s going, 79 going to 80 on New Year's Eve and William H Macy ends up after discovering his wife is having, well not discovering, after getting sick of his wife. Cheating on him. - Yes, that is the exact feeling. - And he goes and he gets the gun from his car and then he blows his brains out and just. Just as midnight hits and it's just like oh This party's gotten very dark and is going to continue to be dark and that was

Kind of the vibe that was hanging over this beef at that moment. I felt kind of. Gross. And I had another friend in another group chat text me and it's like, I think Kendrick might have won. And I was like, won what? at this point. - Yeah. - What was the victory? Was it worth it? I mean, here's the thing. It wasn't to call to your, I'm like. I think it was kind of beneath Kendrick a little bit, not to clutch my pearls, but I was like, this... Let's be clear. Meet the grams is a great diss song if the point of a diss song is to dismantle your opponent and to just be pure evil eat a compliment That as a song that I want to listen to I was like Kendrick you are a better artist than this but also this was the first time, like he says something and I was like, you should die, and I was like, yeah. I was like, Kendrick, like, like, relax, bro. Like, it's, it'll be fun.

Phone with one of you yesterday. I had put it on because I'm like I hadn't listened to us this Friday night, so this is Sunday morning and I put it on. And I'm walking around listening to it on a beautiful Sunday morning in Los Angeles and and one of you called me and we were on the phone for a while and I forgot that I was listening to it and then we hung up and I. The song just came back on the second phone call ended and it was like Honestly, one of the more jarring, 'cause I love talking to both of you. To go from that back to that with no warning, with totally forgetting that that was my experience before that was so jarring and it just... I felt so oppressively dark. - Yeah, it's. But as strategy, Machiavelli would be proud. Machiavelli would be proud because no one was thinking about family matters. It was to me at this point, it felt like.

Either this is mutually assured destruction or this is the moment where Drake is going to realize I I'm dealing with a sick man that I cannot go up against. At this point, I still wasn't like, Okay, this beef has a winner. I'm like, The public sentiment is just kind of with Kendrick because people don't like Drake. I took it as both of them lost. Once that dropped, I was like, tonight both of you lost. Like, it's good. As a Kendrick fan, I was, well, I don't know. Say disappointed I was just surprised that he would he would do this to be honest um if I were to be Forced to claim a winner at that point, I would give it to Kendrick just for pure strategy I think at that point in the beef He out strategized Drake and it did feel like the consensus was like this got dark But if we're going to crown someone a winner, it's Kendrick. But is it again, is that, are you, what are you winning at that point when it's, things have turned so disgusting.

And allegations, when you really think about them, are just atrocious and sickening. But -- -Oh, go on. No, no, no, no. Sorry. So this is what I think strategy-wise actually trumps Even the strategy of meet the grams and it is the next day May 4th at 452 p.m In the afternoon we are now Saturday right not like us drops Mustard beet in terms of the claims it hits the pedophilia angle directly where It was alluded to in the tracks, uh, leading to this point. This is the main angle. Responds to Drake's claims in Family Matters very briefly and just says Drake the Audience is not slow. We see that you're just trying to shape a narrative. We're not buying it. Let's dance. and

He responds directly to Drake's line about Kendrick rapping like he's about to get the slaves free. He does this whole fourth verse. About Atlanta artists and punches with this I think a pretty effective you're not a what does he say Not a colleague you're yeah you're not a colleague you're a colonizer thank you Charles to having five more diss songs in the clip and I think it has some of the most memorable lines from the entire beef and Of strategy I would say just as a fan witnessing this this entire thing shaking out this was a much needed just a palate cleanser. - The vibes were great. The vibes were great. - The West was one that day. Like it, it, it happened. It was, here's the thing. It got dark that night and literally the DJ just turned this on and everybody's like, it's fun again

certified loverboy certified pedophile Austin, what were your initial thoughts on this song? Well, for- Just listening to the lines that Charles was just rapping. I'm just- I can't help but think that one of the most damning things that Nas said about Jay and Ether was- to whip your ass, you're 36 in a karate class. And now we're like, Yeah, but you know, he really hit on the pedophilia angle. I was like, we have, we have this, the terms of engagement are so different here. Yeah. I was going to say, we should acknowledge at some point that Pusha T just set a new bar that Laura gave. Lowered the bar or whatever you want to call it that I think the shadow of pusha T and story of adidon has loomed large over this beef where Yeah this is where we're at now but just continue so it was - Because the vibes were back immediately, like we said. I also, it actually.

Charles pointed this out to me and I you know if he wants to actually discuss this he can but he mentioned this to me where one of the show brilliant things about meet the grams in hindsight was it did all the heavy lifting on all the all All the God all the really nasty things that Kendrick is accusing Drake of so that way when he calls Drake freaky are not like. We already know the backstory like we already had we already have the lore. It's a callback, right? It's not something he has to set up here. So it's It's, um... It just kind of clears out of the way. First of all, I can I also say, Might be Kendrick's best club record ever. - Yeah. Like, I'm trying to think of what goes up against it. It's like Mad City, All Right, and King Kunta, and it's like-- Maybe swimming pools?

Twin Pools is like, yeah, yes. Those songs all are, they're great and they have gone off in the clubs. Nothing like this, nothing like this. And it's... It's it's insane the lines that he gets off in this song. Um I just want to say, and we're going to discuss a couple of those lines, and Cole, I'm saving the big one for you. um, but the Stuff about Atlanta, I think is stuff that's been percolating about Drake for a long time. It goes back to that Earl sweatshirt tweet of like you don't know the stuff that Drake does to these young kids and it's impossible to not think of Comes in and sucks people's life force and then gets a hit out of them and then just throws them away. And I think of like, um, block boy JB and I think of Mcconan.

Think of all these people that he's done this dram. Dramp I mean dream he just kind of like stole that whole vibe Drake. Has long been a tourist in many different facets of rap culture and that's okay because it to an extent then if you're also paying it forward and paying the proper respect. But one of the knocks on Drake that has been apparent, it's actually funny. When this diss track ranking the first song that ever really disstrayed card was a sauce walkers um wack to wack. He gets it all of this stuff basically being like you're an actor and you only you Don't actually believe in these things, these styles that you're trying on. These are just you doing this to gain credibility. Of course, Source Walk has said it much better than I said it. But the Atlanta stuff in this song specifically hits on all that and and

Other people have said this, critics have made this point, Earl Sweatshirt had this tweet. Other artists have said similar things. The fact that it's Kendrick Lamar, the only. Person that can challenge Drake for the title of most influential rapper of the past 15 years. The fact he's saying it on possibly what could be his biggest hit record ever has the chance to change how we think of Drake for us. Ever. I mean here's the thing, you want to know how this is a successful diss record? Because when I went to bed, no one... Was calling Drake R. Kelly and the minute I woke up, every meme was just treating Drake like he was the next R. Kelly. And I'm just like, once again, none of this- Has none of this stuff is corroborated none of this shit is sourced none of this the allegations

Haven't seen anything besides what Kendrick has said and still he said it in such a way where it's like This song he does the Drake thing so well where there are multiple points in this song where it's like, think about the A minor part, that stuff that Drake does, he did it. They free shit and like Kendrick just takes it and now you hear, you see videos of people in a club. Yelling A minor the day it drops. You know what I'm saying? It is-- - Yeah. OV hoe. I'm like, this is the corniest shit ever, but I'm like people will say this forever now It's I did not expect Kendrick to be this Good at making a hit record, and the fact that this was the second of the beef from him is insanity. Yeah, cuz like we're talking about like that as being like that as the first one and then people cuz I got people now We like that was a future those

Future and Metro record and I'm just like, hey, you can't take anything away from uh, from this one. That was just Kendrick all alone, him and Mustard. So yeah, Yeah, I mean in terms of strategy it's like not only does it kind of refresh the vibes as we noted before It's like he outdid Drake at what Drake was To do in this battle which is give a make a hit that is also a dis all a back-to-back and he out Drake, he beat him at his own game in this one, in this round of the battle. In terms of chess move, I think this was his biggest chess move. As, as brilliant, I think. In terms of strategy that Meet the Grahams was and having that ready and the timing and Was gonna do before he did it brilliant terms of strategy but this one to follow it up and the timing was perfect I remember I was not excited to listen to it, but the moment I was not excited to listen to it, but the moment

That came on, it was like, it neutralized the night before. But it was just one of the, it was, I just had to hand it to him in terms of strategy because it was perfectly executed. Not only the song was just great and is probably going to be the song one of the songs of the summer if not the it was just of just the execution of it, the timing of it seemed perfect in my eyes from a strategy standpoint. - I keep singing multiple parts of this song. I'm like, that is also the thing where it's like. That's a very battle rap thing where I'm just like, over the course of like... 24 hours, Kendrick made it cool for everyone. On the planet to think that Drake is a pedo with no actual facts or photos or anything.

People are just singing it like a club song which is dark. Don't get me wrong. I'm not celebrating that's dark. But also you go after Addy Dawn and I think Kendrick found the answer which is what's worse than hiding a child being like you have a pedophile ring in Toronto. Yeah, I mean Justin in terms of like the importance of memorable lines This seems like an important aspect of battle, the history of battle, because when we think about Jay-Z, Nas, when we think about Tupac, Biggie, like, there are quotable lines. That have sustained the test of time, right? And I think ultimately. Aside from Fuck the big three, it's the big me, I think all the memorable lines are going to come from Not like us. Does that sound right? Well you are you are underestimating um I hate the way that you walk I hate the way that you talk I hate the way that you dress Also, how I suffer makes that Yeah that plate like to your story if we're talking about

The actual lines that you can like sing like all our back-to-back in a club like no one i guarantee Over the next couple weeks, people will stop playing euphoria, pushups, family matters, and it will go back down to like that into not like us. And the production is so good that Mustard beat the way it drops in with that sample and then oh my god And you know, he's it's a Very regional record too. I would be remiss if I got on this podcast and did not mention that he used the flow that was kind of invented. It. It's a very regional record, but you know the whole idea of the catchy lines being part

Thing that you can grab on to when I'm talking about this big list that's live on the ringer comm did listeners of dissect Please feel free to go view go go And then argue about it do whatever you must with it Most of the songs at the top of the list have some That is so catchy about them. Like this all starts with, and look, we're not gonna do a history lesson. We could be here all day and night, you know, be like, Alright, shut up old man. But... This starts with The Bridge is Over, the Boogie Down Productions diss song where it turned... It was... It took this beef and... You know, KRS-One turned into this sing song thing. I think of Eazy E, Real Motherfucking Geez, which that beat, if you hear that beat once, it's going to be stuck in your head for the rest of your life.

The best diss songs Function not only on this on a rap level not only on I'm going to you know ether this guy They function on a level where they just rattle around in your brain forever. And this one will. Like, I don't... It is... The strategy behind it was genius. the On slaw this avalanche of diss records was something it took the back-to-back playbook and pushed it to another level but This being the song is just so perfect. It is honestly one of the bestest records that you will ever hear That's even before you consider the stakes of this battle. Because this battle is...

Among the biggest that we're ever gonna see if not the biggest Yeah, well, we'll get to that at the end of the episode. But let's move on to the final Well, hopefully the final but do we have to? This this is okay. Yeah 24 hours Essentially after Not Like Us Drake drops again it's the heart part six which is playing off of Kendrick's long Pre album release Lucy's kind of hijacking that from him in the same way that Kendrick hijacked a time codes song for his Lucy it's clever in that part six ties into whole drake's six uh would have been great if the song was good there's a lot of work a lot of ground he covers here uh i'm just gonna say the bullet points it's gonna take me a second but we got it we got to hit him so he he begins with claiming that

He set up Kendrick regarding the mole in OVO to purposely feed Kendrick false info about the alleged daughter. Essentially trying to neutralize what he reveals on meet the grams. He uses the photo that Kendrick used as artwork for Meet the Grahams as evidence that he planned. This whole thing all along. There's some holes in that we should probably talk about in a second. He tells Kendrick importantly to fact check his information. So he says, Ahaha, I fooled you. You're antsy, you're thirsty, I'm feeding you, you're a dupe. But I think the fact checking is pretty important. He brings that, he plays that card. Doubles down on the day free accusation doubles down on the physical abuse to his partner accusation. Claims that he hasn't seen Kendrick, or claims that Kendrick hasn't seen his kids in six months.

Wright denies very clearly of being a pedophile, says he's too famous not to get caught, suggests that Kendrick is Doing all of this to cope with the fact that Kendrick himself was molested as a child. And uses Kendrick's song Mother I Sober as proof. That is false, we'll talk about that, but that is absolutely false, I have to say that now. Claims that he feels sorry for dissing Kendrick now after making this connection but also taunts him about it as well with the Mariah Carey line like, but he is saying that he feels sorry for Kendrick now and doesn't want to diss him anymore. He suggests that he's With the beef he says you could drop a hundred more records i'll see you later he has a spoken like a talking outro where he says this is was a good lyrical exercise, sharpened his sword, says Kendrick was is a liar, uh, admits

That not like us as a banger and then says he's waiting on Kendrick to actually speak some facts and until then I'll see you later. So I think the overall kind of what he's trying to get Kendrick to do is Respond directly to the allegations in the same way that he did here on heart part six and offer proof about Drake's claims Okay Charles what do you think? I'm gonna be real. This is this is coming from a recovering Aubrey's angel You know how big of a Drake fan I am bigger than Kendrick and I will say Uh, my goat went out. So fucking sad. In a multitude of ways. Uh, it's, it's, it's a fellow light skin to a fellow light skin man. Like you can't rage quit. Okay? You can't quite quit on us. You just can't do that. That shit. Let's let it live. We just go through it really quick. First of all, Drake, you We're on the internet with your little buddy academics counting down the days rushing Kendrick what?

Nothing has been fact-checked. Don't bring in the fucking New York Times copy desk, bro. This is beef like stop Y'all are all you're already in the fucking bud. Don't be mad cuz you're fucking disgusting now third. I Don't I don't think can I mean I don't think Drake Does he have people around? and him who actually care. Because if I was in the studio with him and I heard that bar about, he's like, Dog, if I was real. Leopetto, don't you think I would have been caught by now? I'm like- - Dude, that was... - I was like, Bro, bro, what the fuck? Like everything that is happening in the world, we don't need to bring up all, but I think if anyone. Was gonna get away with that shit. It tends to be very rich people that are in the same tax bracket as Drake that's not doing what you think it is. I mean, and again, what did Drake think? What did Drake think?

Both Kendrick and Drake got very misogynistic, very homophobic, all of that shit at this time. But I want to be clear. What do you think making fun of Kendrick for what you think happened, him getting molested? What do you think that does for you? 'Cause I walk away from that being like, you're the asshole now, Drake. Like, Kendrick was the asshole, but you're-- as being so desperately at these straws, it just felt like you can't be. The guy who was throwing so many subliminals and so many punches, and the minute you start losing, being like, man, I don't care if you drop-- 100 more times, fuck this, I'm too good for this. I'm like, you weren't too good for this shit when you were digging up fucking Pox Grow. And desecrating it for this little fucking beef. You weren't, you weren't fucking too good for this. It when you were throwing Kendrick's partner, business partner, actual life partner, kids, anything under the bus. So I just, it was whack.

Bro, it's wet. Like you can't pull the I'm exhausted now. You're part of the exhaustion. Like I. I lost a little respect from the 69 God, I'll be honest. - You know, I, oh God. He said that Meet the Grahams was like from the Machiavelli playbook. The Heart Part 6 is like if Machiavelli went to go see Nathan Fielder and worked out his game plan. Here's Nathan Fielder. Oh, we get it we get a whoa, whoa, what call wait what - What? Tell me maybe I know I'm terrible me for you the curse the rehearsal the rehearsal. Oh, man All right, we're gonna we're gonna you would love the rehearsal like that actually seems like a very cold show. I think it might make

him very uncomfortable. Remember how, remember? No. Wait, you don't know Nathan, I thought, I thought Nathan Fielder would be Cole, Cole At nip. Well okay. Maybe this is my last song standing homework. This is actually the best last song standing homework we could do. But just for a little, just for you, so you can say. You can keep this or you can cut this if you think the audience wants it. However. Hey. Nathan for you was a show that ran on Comedy Central where Nathan Fielder basically, he's this very deadpan I guess comedian, but just this very deadpan guy who exists in the comedy world would give The worst business advice you'd hear to struggling small business owners, but that sometimes have this like little inkling of genius. So it's like, okay.

This gas station we're going to offer rebates but in order for you to actually claim the rebate on the gas you actually have to hike up this like terrain and put it in the rebate box and who's crazy enough to actually do that it turns out that were people crazy enough to do that anyways If that's all convoluted, all I'm saying here is that Drake's plan to... Where to believe him to win this rap battle was to... was to... Plant information about him hiding a child and being a pedophile. So that way when Kendrick raps about it, he can then be like, haha, that was fake. Info we fed you with no proof by the way with but it's It's so even if it was proof it's like why would your mind go there? I mean

Four hours ago he was on Instagram Stories being like, I'll give da da da da to anybody who could find my secret child and then a day later it's like, into that all along. I'm like, which store is it Drake? - Yeah, wouldn't you have at least filmed, like when, if that was your plan, wouldn't the big reveal, let Kendrick drop Meet the Gramps and then immediately, not two days, not 48 hours after Meet the Gramps. Immediately reveal your your hand there right like with some video evidence or something like I think he Looked online saw that this was a theory going around and just took credit for it all the evidence from what I tracked seemed that that seems to line up perfectly But even if that was true, I don't know if that's a win. It makes them both sound insane where it's just like Kendrick like kendrick has alluded to this and pusha t has alluded to this that supposedly drake

this video. Not beating the freaky, you're not beating the freaky nigga allegations. If Drake's like, you know how we're gonna win this beef. Find me an 11 year old girl that will pose as my illegitimate daughter and we're gonna feed that to fucking Kendrick's camp I'm like dog log off we're - We're just so past this just being normal. Like this makes Jay and Nas just. Like fucking a friendly slap boxing match I'm just like what are Drake and Kendrick doing well I mean This one I mean the whole thing is after meet the grams. I'm like man Kendrick might be a legit crazy person After the heart part six, I'm like, Drake, what the fuck is wrong with you? This is crazy. This is absolutely insane, whether it's true or not. Also, we have--

I have to say that there are only two people, there's only one person in this. Entire thing that has brought up the names Jeffrey Epstein and Millie Bobby Brown. And it was Drake. I knew you'd come with that Epstein stuff and it's like, did you? It's like, oh what you're gonna reference Millie Bobby Brown? It's like, no but you are. - Yeah, on For Sarah, man. - It is the most, you know, this is the classic tweet. You know, the, yeah. I knew you think I was a pedophile shirt is bringing up questions already answered by my shirt. Yeah, it's it's not looking good for the boy. I'll be on what we didn't talk about it as a song What'd you guys think about it as a song? terrible

There's a reason we didn't talk about it as a song because it's like I also think the worst thing What's worse than like faux mafia boss drake? is reactive drake is defensive drake is like family works because he actually thought like if you listen to Family Matters now you're like oh you thought Was the one that was gonna win you for sure he said he's going on vacation yeah yeah and you you kind of feel that energy we're like okay like you You got this in the bag and the heart part six is so defensive. It's like he's incredulous, how could y'all believe this? And I'm like, that's not a good beef tactic, because not like us works. Because Kendrick seems so far past worrying that Drake could ever win, that he's having so much fun, that it's infectious. We're no longer wondering if any of this is true. We're partying with fucking Kendrick now, let's turn up. And instead the heart part six comes out and I'm just like, Drake, you're rapping about.

Epstein and Millie Bobby Brown, I think you've missed. Also, if we're being clear, it's also you play into the hand that Kendrick wanted you to play when I'm like, your entire, almost a good amount of that song. Is Drake defending himself against the pedo accusations and I'm like, I don't know if-- You needed to spend this much real estate on this man, 'cause this is making you sound way more guilty than-- whatever, if you just be like, that's a lie. Now back to this shit. Objectively, it seems like it was literally a PR move. I mean, he has to, as someone that wants to keep his sponsorships and maintain some kind of status and credibility with brands, he kind of to outright deny them and that felt like probably the main uh The goal of this song was to get it on record within the beef that he's denying the allegations so that to just try to save face.

Little bit and just keep it moving because obviously he didn't i think i think he i don't know he sounded exhausted to me it sounds It sounded very reactionary, it sounded very rushed, it didn't sound thought through at all. It just seemed like an obligatory... I'm going to end this. I'm going to find these angles that I think my, I think his fans it's good enough for his fans, his core audience. Um. To run with and especially the setting up the mole in his camp thing. I think that gives his audience enough ammo to feel like Drake won or at least didn't get totally annihilated. And he, and he's just checking a bunch of boxes. Right. And it just felt like that's what the song felt like to me on first impression. Maybe three or four times since then and every time I just, I just keep picking holes in it, it just, just from an objective strategic. Standpoint it just there's so many holes in what he's trying to do and I think he

Get the heart part six and trying to do the psychological empathy the Kendrick thing just totally fell flat for me Like you're just not that dude. Like you're just, you're, you're just not intellectually capable of doing that. I'm sorry. To do this, I feel sorry for you that you got molested, which just for the record. Mother I Sober is about Kendrick not having been molested. So to misunderstand like to me as a Kendrick fan, Drake misinterpreting Kendrick's music so transparently And then double downing on that's your main angle of exiting this beef is just like to me the difference between the two artists like, um, the fact that- - All right, let's not go that far, okay? - Wait, what? - Let's not go that far. Drake will be fine. Drake is, Drake is-

Still want the best rappers alive. From my vantage point he tried to do the Kendrick thing and just absolutely failed where if we're comparing these side by side With as a response to Not Like Us Kendrick clearly did the Drake thing better than Drake within this battle and if Drake's rebuttal to that was Try to do the Kendrick thing better than Kendrick I think clearly Kendrick wins this round right? Uh, Kendrick so far has won every round and I'm not eat- like, once again, I like Drake's music more than Kendrick's and I just objectively speaking There's not one time during this whole thing where I was just like, Oh, Drake's running away with it. Where it's like there have been a few times now where I'm like, Kendrick.

Has not really lost yet, and that is where I still am as a listener, which is hard to say, 'cause you know I'm a hater. - If I were Kendrick. The only thing I would do now is just tweet out, release the OVO flight logs. - Yo! Yo, honestly, he should just start talking about the OVO Island because at this point, they're just running with anything right now, which. Shows you that he won the beef because we're talking about not like us and yelling a minor and Break is somewhere on an island, hopefully resting. Hopefully just take a break, bud. It's okay, it happens to the best. Of us. So do we think this is over? Should Kendrick respond? No. Or should we just... I I was convinced that in my interpretation after listening to Heart Part 6 and knowing that Kendrick had Arsenal and you know

are ready to go. I was just like, Oh, this is Drake wobbling like a Mortal Kombat character and just, Gonna drop something and just totally annihilate him. After I woke up this morning I was like, The move actually. I don't think he needs to respond. I wouldn't be surprised if he If he did if he's that fucking cruel and that kind of deranged to just chop his head off at this point because it is waiting for him I think right there but yeah I don't I think he needs to respond. Justin, what do you think? I think that has been chopped off. I think that Drake has so- Decisively lost, which is not something I thought 72 hours ago that I'd be saying that coming out of this weekend. It's crazy. I thought like rat beefs have typically gone you go, I go, you go, I go. Respond to the response.

Response. And Drake's, and Kendrick's just like, I'm gonna hit you with an avalanche. Like, fuck back to back. I'm just gonna hit you with an avalanche. And the way I've described it is, it's like Drake... You- uh- A candle can melt the snow in front of it, but a candle's got nothing against an avalanche. Hit him with an avalanche. There's, I don't see... That head's rolling around on the floor, man. I don't know. Like... What else could he do? It's so far, it's just, the reason why I'm like, I think Kendrick is smarter than this, if you like. Let your final record be not like us and that record does what I think it's gonna do. I don't know how much of a hit it is, but I'm like, if that ends up. Even just charting on the Hot 100. He's walked away with a clean sweep, whereas if he drops something now,

Just like, All right, Kendrick, we're tired. Where it also just leaves Drake twisting in the wind because I'm like, If I'm Drake, the burden-- is on him because Heart Part 6 did not work. It is not streaming as well as those other songs. So it's like the ball. All is still in Drake's camp. You haven't made one hit. Kendrick's on his way to like, honestly, Euphoria I think is going to number one already. So I'm like, Kendrick dropped like three. Certified fucking bangers on your fucking head. Uh, it's... I'm sorry, three bangers to one. The story, it's over, it's fine. But Family Matters is like, I like the record, but like I'm objective enough I think to be like it's an effective diss record but that's not a hit. Sorry, you know, are you gonna listen to that? I mean that melody that melody is stuck in my head but like I gotta say this, what the Kendrick Records have done is, I've been making a playlist.

For this diss track ranking, which again you can read on the ringer.com on Tuesday. You're not gonna ask me where I'm here to promote, so I'm just gonna promote it anyways. Um... I've been making a playlist to go along with it, and I've been slotting in the new, all the new diss songs, like scattering them throughout, and... Family Matters is on there and I was listening to the playlist this morning and I just skipped right past Family Matters. Wait, like Family Matters is gonna make the list? Yes, yes, yes, it's gonna be... It's going to be a lot lower than everything else. Yo, the OVO camp really slid you that check. Dead a fucking night. Yo Brian and fucking Chubbs were just like, yo, do a Do the boy a solid. I am. I am. I maybe I okay I'll put it this way I'll take I'll take whatever money anybody wants to slide me but I'm

Might want to stay away from the OVO money right now, at least until we check those flight logs. That's a low blow, Justin. Lisa Tan is a low fucking blow. I'm gonna I need I need WikiLeaks to get on this I need anonymous to get on this and like just figure out what's actually going on up there I need them to hack into the computers. I need them to hack into go For real what's going on up I mean real quick you're gonna check it the not like us cover art is also genius I just like Oh God yeah 80 - Oh God. - It is so like, I was like, Kendrick, you're an evil, evil man. You just, you don't give a fuck. I think that I think the only way I functionally I think the only way Kendrick could cleanly respond Well, actually, I won't say that because he surprised me with Not Like Us, and so I'm not going to try to predict what he could do.

Pull off or not, but it does seem like the general consensus around the beef at this point is who's going to have proof first. So if Kendrick has something up his sleeve that proves any of this I think that's his next play if he has a next play and I think that's at least from my vantage point the only play That seems like is needed and generally speaking proof is just needed at this point right or all this is just going to kind of disappear. And we'll call it in the spirit of battle for better, well, for definitely for worse. But that seems to be the only play left that feels like it would be accepted where it's like, oh he did have he did have Proof all along he was just waiting for the final moment to reveal it but that being said yeah i think clearly kendrick won can we just say that kendrick It was I think he kind of won after meet the grams and not like us was just the nail in the coffin

I'm very sad today Drake. It's fine. I still support you control, uh, you know all that hotline bling. still waiting for proof of any of this. So until I get that, I'm like, most of this stuff, I'm like, there might be a hand of truth to it, but I'm just like, it's still allegations. Fucking Pusha T, damn near walked Drake's child up to his front door and be like, Hey, And then a couple days later we kind it was revealed I'm like that is still in my opinion terms of like the beefs. I've lived through I Thought that happened because we're like, I think most people were probably like, Kendrick has a really, really good shot of winning this.

I remember around the Pusha T Drake beef. I did not have the sense that like Pusha T would utterly Dismantle that man and I think we I agree with you Cole where it's like Story of Addie Don loomed large over this beef where both sides reaching for straws and shit on both ends kendrick and drake where i was like Story of Adidon doesn't come out. I don't know if both of you are so-- Like set on the gossip angle that was honestly my least favorite part besides them throwing a bunch of women and children under the bus Themselves like I just that was gross but my second one is why are y'all so obsessed with making This is a boss of beef. Why are you guys so obsessed with the gossip and running with this shit? And I'm like, that does not happen unless push it. Embarrasses Drake to such an extent.

Lifetime? No. Is this the most significant rat beef? It's not not I mean when you consider the size of the artists when you consider the you know Well, you know Drake wants us to consider the size of the artist When you believe consider like their success and their level of notoriety and also like the way That social media exists now the way it didn't for any of the other major battles, like the major major battles outside of Drake Pusha T. But that was a different scale because Pusha T was punching way up. I think could go down. It's definitely like this generation is Jay-Z or Nas or Biggie and Pac. It's like, but I am. Might even go past that. I don't know. - But also the reason why I'm just like, let's not be prisoners of the moment is because unless And Kendrick keep this going. This was a very speedy beef in the way that I feel like POC and Biggie.

J and Nas wasn't it was a little bit more elongated more back and forth to your earlier point Justin. Here's a record. Here's a record This one was kind of, as long as it felt like what, it's been two and a half months of this. Like Kendra kind of just like got Drake up out of here way faster than I thought Once the bottle started rolling at all, the climax was quick and I think more sudden than we all were expecting. Isn't that... Things just generally move faster, right? Like Jay-Z and Nas dropped six records back and forth. Total of six. Kendrick and Drake dropped six records in five days. Yeah, it's crazy. It's absolutely insane. - And that's what I think is interesting about this beef where I'm like, I don't know if that hurts or helps this beef, where it's like, it feels-- like we've been living through this forever, if this is the last thing we hear from them for a while.

Like how do we remember this beef? Do we remember it starting with like that? Do we remember it starting with pushups? Euphoria is it just clearly Kendrick wins if not like us just is a Smash and is like number one for a couple weeks. I still think there's a, the dust hasn't settled. Like part of me is I'm like, I don't know if this beef actually lived up to what I wanted it to When Kendrick and Drake really started kind of having you could tell about these two don't fucking with each other at all All. Part of me is I'm like, this wasn't their best music for either of them. I think Kendrick, it's his best probably. His best pop music and like radio ready club records, but this was not Kendrick's best rapping and it certainly was not Drake's best rap. Let's hit, um, we hit everything. I think, uh, we got it. We got to rank. We're not going to rank all of them, but let's go ahead and rank our top three songs from this battle.

Well, let's go number three each Justin what's your third song from this battle? Oh Ooh, okay. Um, I see I wanted to save my number three. I'm gonna go everybody say you want to go wonder you want to go What are you? Why do you guys go and then I'll then I'll you guys say your number threes and then I'll say my number three at the End because I want it to be a surprise. Okay. All right Number three for me was a mix up between euphoria or push-ups. push-ups. Which I think are both about on the same level, but for me, Euphoria does more. I'm going to go with number three, Euphoria. As a Kendrick fan, I think I would say Euphoria is a great I'm just excited to have a six minute track that is just straight bars. You guys will hear if you listen to my analysis to our analysis of it it just has all the Kendrick shit I love and it doesn't hurt that

He's going after an artist that I'm not particularly fond of generally speaking. So I'm gonna go number three for you. Charles, what do you think? I'm going euphoria. Even if it's not my favorite from the beef, I just think when I'm thinking of the things that make me laugh, which is kind of what it just needs to do, this has a lot of Is it the braids? Okay, and that's my number two So we can just we can just keep it moving euphoria is my number two. All right, Cole. What's your number two? So number two? For me is tough between number one and number two because I'm like trying not to be prisoner of the moment but I think I ultimately landed with Like That being my number two. - Cole, we're in agreeance. This is my number two as well. - Really? Oh, shit. This is really uncommon for us. Yeah, I played this song every day when it came out. Not only...

I just like the song the Kendrick verse is obviously really important and sparked all this but just as a song I think his story It's gonna survive the test of time, it's gonna have a lot of history attached to it. I mean, it's just a great song. Charles I agree as well. I think a lot of people try to do the cool kid thing where I was like It's not an actual dish. It's not a part of the beat did it and I'm like nothing. This is ground zero This is how it happens. I do think that this is gonna be the song that's remembered, as to your point, starting this all off, and it's Kendrick doing something that he traditionally has not been very good at, which is being a feature artist on-- Club record, not getting in the way. He just like he fits so well into that record. It goes off. Like that is just so infectious. Number two is like that. I have to say, I think it's the bet, probably the best or second best song that's come out of this whole thing but if I don't know we ranking songs or dissongs because I do like I

I've said this many times, Kicking the Door by The Notorious B.I.G. is one of my all-time is not one of my all time favorite diss songs. - This is an old head take bro, it's an old head take. - Okay, I just want-- - Here's the thing, everybody's like, it's not a good diss song, and I'm like, if it's not a good diss song, then it wouldn't-- Drake and all these other mufflepuckers carrying on like that. Yeah, it's just like... I get what you're saying. I get what you're saying. But this is... But the way you're talking right now is somebody who's raising the back-to-back error. It's like I like my diss records to go at someone. I like my diss records to go at someone. - It went at Cole, it went at Kendrick. It had, come on, come on. - And it was on a record that was going at Drake. - It was, it was. Alright, come call him. Here's the thing. He called them men bums like you just like It's a dis song is

It's a really good song. You know, it's like I think it gets the historical nod just for being like to make another reference I made a World War two reference was really old head dad hours. This was the Archduke Ferdinand moment this was the this was the moment that this was the assassination that kicked off the that that made Power Keg explode. So it gets that credit. I'm not gonna stand in your way. I just think that there have been other diss records And can I give my number one because I think we're all in agreement here and we can just segue into that Yeah, yes, nigga I was gonna say Charles singing this so you can sing it louder not like oh Oh, oh, say OVO, OVO! I am not like us is number one bro. It's so yeah, it's so girl and a good it is the one it is the one crazy all right now can I give my number three yes here it all right I sing it

BBL Drizzy! Alright, get the fuck out of here. Get the fuck out of here. Metro, I love you Metro. You did a great job. You are a quarterback in this whole thing. Metro's doing too much. Metro is officially- he's doing too much. Just for context, it was... Explain what it is, Justin. - Oh, okay. It's the, it's actually the only good thing that's ever come out of AI. It's um, somebody made a like a disco. Oh style song based off the line that uh, well the nickname that Rick Ross came up for Drake which was BL Drizzy which you know Brazilian butt lift Drizzy because of all the plastic surgery all the work he's been done Tell us on your thoughts on Brazilian butt lifts. Will you ever be? You ever be BBL sales Look, you know, I'm kind of getting up there in years I don't know like I mean I when I when I heard that you can just go pay to get

To get some abs. I'm like, huh? Oh, I would get a BBL if somebody wants to pay for it. If somebody wants to sponsor. Sponsor wants to sponsor dissect or any other podcast hit us up like we will take it all right no is this you is this you asking Spotify if we can expense the BBL if - Spotify would expense my BBL, y'all. I would walk into the fucking office next week acting too different. - Well, the... Metro took this AI song and he flipped it into a beat and he's got people rapping on it. And he's gonna give him 10 grand which feels kind of low uh he's gonna he's gonna give him a free metro beat Free. He's going to give a free metro be in ten grand to the winner and then a metro be to the runner up and he's got the. The thing about this one though, he's got randos all over the world. I had one from Japan.

I wonder if in Japan there was some dude who just did a sax solo over it. Like, like, the thing about-- But this is, um, it's, it really exposes how much people hate Drake. Yeah. They were ready for it. Here's the thing if I'm Drake I would be pissed. I'm just like dog. It's not even 20 V 1 anymore It is like the entire world like has formed up to Literally get this man out the paint which is it's fine Drake. That's here's the thing heavy is the head that wears the crown Alright, so I just I want you to know, I'm rooting for you. Take some time off. You know what I'm saying? Get Lil Yachty out of there. Sorry, Yachty. Maybe hire a baby team. It'll be all cool. New Ghost Rider blood in there, get V's in there, and we'll be fine. We'll be fine, Drake. I think that's a good note to end on. You want to plug anything, Charles? What do you got coming up? Oh, what do I have coming up? Hopefully--

Vacation if you want to hear some of my other great opinions on shows like X-Men. To the Midnight Boys, you know what I'm saying? I'll be on Prestige TV talking about other stuff over there. Read me on the ringer.com. And I'll just say guys Freaky ass nigga. He's my god. Yeah, nigga. He is. Oh, yeah. Sorry We're gonna read your disrank. When's that dropping? It's gonna be good drop it by the time this episode is up the Okay, the well the list will be up at 6 a.m. Eastern so the podcast might be able just right around then so All right. Yeah, what was we'll see what's up We'll hit the link in the description. Yeah, hit the link in the description. There we go. Alright, well thanks guys. This was great. Be sure to check out my analysis of Euphoria in part 2 of this episode, which again is available right now. Bye.

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