« Dr. Death

Dr. Fata: Top Doc | 1


Patty Hester starts her care with Dr. Fata, but quickly realizes something is wrong. She’s not the only one.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Imagine you not feeling well and it won't go away a little fatigue. Some aching is a loved one. Tells you go see a doctor, so ok, you go to doctor and you get some blood work done when the results come back. There are few questions your doktor recommend. You go see a specialised, my internal medicine actors and eyes set my mom to him is war Renowned, Sloan, Katherine Graduate, a specialist who cares whose attend You know you had these very sorrowful eyes located in a state of the art inviting office. It was a beautiful building, a beautiful, this had had this lovely healing garden attached to it. The doktor takes look at your lab work. He makes a face and then he says three of the
horrifying words, a patient can hear you have cancer. Your devastated, but you're also grateful because you believe you caught it early and you're being treated by the best. I would say that is education and experience in Michigan is unparalleled. Second alone, doctor red Fatah is a leading authority in the treatment of cancer. In the? U S and has saved the lives of hundreds of patients close attention cutting edge treatments that care as then, and now the staff is warming friendly care and carrying has just been amazing all thanks to doktor for he'd fatter than your father's godsend under fifty thousand a doctor, but fortunately it will turn out. There is only one
because after months of appointments, our spending chemo chairs poison, pumping through your veins, accepting that you might not survive you learn something that you can barely comprehend. You don't have cancer, you never did, and you are not the only one doktor death season, two is pleased to have simply safe as our presenting sponsor every twenty six seconds? There's a break in this country, but with simply safe home security? You can protect your whole around the clock. That means you know your home and family or always safe, simply safe gives you serious, lasting protection, and all it takes is a simple thirty minutes set up you'll even get a free security camera. When you protect your home today. More on that, in a moment with simply safe. You get an award winning arsenal of sensors and security cameras, the blankets every inch of your home, you set it up
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lashed doctor that simply safe dot com, slash doktor from wondering I'm Laura Veal, and this is feasible to of doktor done. Since the first season of doktor death came out, we ve received hundreds of tips about doctors who have abused or medical system. I still get a few. Every week. On season to weave investigated the story that people have asked us about more than any other a story. but one doktor in Michigan who manipulated the system too, terrifying ends and put hundreds of lives at risk this is episode, one of five top dog
howdy Hester is a petite woman was straight blonde, hair and blue eyes. She lived in Clarkson Michigan, a suburb of Detroit, nearly her entire life and choose a fitness junkie. My father was a Jackie in very healthy and lived to be eighty four, so I had always been into fitness and health. We ran racism, wrote bikes like hundred mile trips, and It's off by playing hockey in two thousand nine Patty was working as an emergency room technician. She monitored patients vitals the thing she saw in the EU are were enough to keep her motivated to take care of herself. But then something happened to her that inspired her to become a fitness instructor. Her mom was in a car accident and beyond he had his search congestive heart failure. My mom was in a coma for from January, until June ninth Patty,
and her family were very close, almost daily she's it at her mothers bedside praying she would recover. look at my mom and I am so tired of sickness that it was like. I wanted something that was life. Giving new, then, beyond anything that I had to pursue fitness. That is where my DR really kitten become a trainer because I just could not bear the thought of someone being long term. L I face sick and I don't want that for myself either so at age, fifty five patty began studying to become a fitness instructor. A few months into her studies. Patty got pneumonia, her doktor did some blood work and a few of the tests were concerning. She suggested that Patty see him intelligent, a physician who specializes in blood conditions
The humanitarian just petty really wanted to see was out of the country, so she did some research and found one who looked pretty promising my internal medicine doctors do. I set my mom to hand. Is world renowned Doktor freed Fatah, Sloan Chattering Graduate Jeer choice paddy, but I would go to him if her thirty years working in health care had taught her anything. It was to be sure sure that this doctor for Red Fatah was legit. She read all the reviews she could find she ask around about him at the hospital she worked tat. She called up her niece, whose an internal medicine doctor in Saint Louis, who said she heard good things. There is nothing nothing ever question that this person was anything.
like all why you're lucky beginning to see this person. So in late February, two thousand ten patty went to see Doktor Fatah at his practice. Michigan hematology oncology she arrived late in the afternoon and almost every seat in the waiting room was full. She took a seat and began filling out. Her paperwork a big screen tv and the weighting area played an ad for doktor fighters. Charity swan for life. Will this video about the story of this patients has and making this wouldn't swan in holding up in telling the story? How you're his patient, who had passed away her husband, a carved? for him and the whole thing wrapped around donating money, but it played over and over again
when you're waiting for an appointment. How long can you watch this after half an hour petty, got up and approached the woman at the front desk ice? Had? Can you please change channel in the employees are spoken away her sides really quite can understand that want to either I worked in the medical field and you whisper is confidential, but she said now. Can I can change a channel confused Patty turned to go back to her seat. After of forty five minute. Wait. She finally got into an exam room awe and in his room, there's Thea TAT tack frame, Pictures of him near top Jack place TAT Jack. It was another half our way before Doktor Fatah appeared, he entered the room
white lab code over a certain high. He was short very round face. He introduced himself. He was very, very soft, spoken almost to the fact that it was a whisper. It was reaching out his hand indeed a person of all and in an image lean in and hasty, no well Patricia you're in the right place, Patty wasn't sure what to expect, but she didn't want to miss anything in case. He did have surprising news for her. She prepared, really prepared. In fact, I had a little recording device in my pocket and I told him I said I'm recording our conversation in case. I don't catch it off. So could you speak out any say who you don't need that in our view, all your lab results in New York all this stuff, my hair. I just liked to do that.
He brought in blood work that should just had done at his lab and looked it over in front of her. He was quiet shaking his head a little and he looked at me and he said he slaps. He said this is really bad. Unlike but Doktor Father said that Patty had Milo displaced Ec Syndrome, a blood cancer that can progress to leukemia Patty was stunned and more than a little confused She had a good friend who had the same disease should spend time. Whether any did a bone marrow drive for her patty. member, her friend feeling very tired and sick, but Patty felt fine. She was still taking fitness classes, he's getting your bone marrow clamps you right away, and I think you manned by chemo. It doesn't make sense. how could he be certain that she would need chemo when she had
even had a bone marrow biopsy a biopsy would show if her blood was healthy with lung cancer is something you can see. You can't see it like a tumor? She made an appointment for a bone marrow biopsy and left she kept everything to herself. My has vastly why. Why are you so quiet like Heine, just thinking about all this People I Marin inside TAT it was caught. Wrenching I think there is a part of me that was in denial at this is really happening to me. When Patty went back to doktor fought as office a few days later for her bone marrow biopsy. Her husband went with her. He was getting worried, he's like I, you know. If you really sack and an I'm like well, we'll see. You now
we'll go from their petty got situated in the exam room, while the medical assistant prepared the area she was expecting. Some sort of sedative should seem bone marrow biopsies done before at the hospital and knew how painful they can be. Typically, the doctors do everything can to make the patient comfortable by administering some kind of anesthetic before she knew it. There was Doktor Fatah, He said. Are you ready, and I said why am I think, I'm getting apprehensive unease. I oughta be fine. I do every just like butter and night. Ok, patty turned over on her stomach, the doktor clean the area of her life. back or he would be doing the biopsy next. He took a scalpel and made a small incision. Then Doktor Fatah inserted a thick needle. It was like the most crucial in pain. I ever felt my life. I was
hey my hands into the exam table. I am, I owe my tie: I don't think I can tolerate this and he said it's almost an it's almost an he twisted the needle back and forth trying to reach the spongy part of the bone. Oh, my car, I seriously, I think I'm gonna pass how music we already laying down you're gonna, be ok, and am I I don't think so. I can't take the needle out of my back and any I am almost like. I just punctured the bone you know I, like all my guide, the pain was unbearable. Patty was sweating profusely thinking she was gonna, throw up. I fella get as barbaric. Doktor fought a finished up and packed up the samples. I was as I, oh, my god, I believe you didn't know me up in his like over there. I said. No, you white! We download better dying, the whole thing she turned
to the medical assistant. I saw him believers, it was fun like this. Any site will generally people will have as much pain is. You may be. The medical assistant was right, Paddy thought. Maybe she was too. Wimpy, the pain carried on four days. She saw chiropractor who tried to work it out. nothing seemed to help at her next appointment. Some time later, she told Doktor Fatah that her back was still hurting from the biopsy. He said he had just the thing for her. His charity swan for life offered massages a massage, send a great to Patty, she got the massage India your father's office the next day it wasn't a great massage, but it was fine for
complimentary service offered by a charity but as Patty walked out, she was stopped by the woman at the front desk. Then the girls that'll be survey five hours and I Saddam skews me to set a recent revert hours, freer Masaccio. I said no, no, no, no, it's sue sworn for life said oh yeah, but no, you have to pay for it. Patty thought that's bizarre the charity services aren't for the patients than were they for a week. Later Patty and her husband went back for the results from the bone marrow biopsy when she got there she was still wearing her fitness gear from the working classes. She had instructed that afternoon. She was feeling good, confident. Even her husband was nervous Doktor Thornton entered the exam room. Looking
her lambs. He said, I'm really sorry, but we need to start you on chemo too. Karl, you are young. Of a young. Yourselves are rapidly reproducing Vert overt. I am now in no time M. L, Acute Maya, Lloyd, leukemia, a more serious disease in ice now, on my blog today. I said I'm feeling really well. You know in my husband he thought I was in denial that I had cancer and I'm like No just just haven't draw my Bible, that's one for Faddle all that shot. He looked at me said. What do you mean? I said I don't know I said maybe the bombing of absolute wrong. Doktor Fatah showed her the labs or of the ones you had these came. Kristen than hospital where he had admitting privileges Ben said he was still waiting on a few from a lab in New York. He said that that lab,
was the only one that performed a certain part of the test. This didn't since to Patty either she'd been there ever step of the way with their friends, so she knew what should come next and it wasn't chemo, and so he looks on my husband has now like that: she's not getting it. She needs to start came on, and I might just draw my line like I said, because if I need chemo than I wanna gone, analysed first himself, a transfusion of stem cells in the bone marrow approve and treatment for I am now you can't do that. I sometimes he had the same diagnosis say thing, and this is what s happening. Patty was starting to get irritated, but doktor ATA agreed to do more blood work. After forty minutes, Doktor Fatah came back and said
oh, my dear today's, your lucky day and night. What do you mean? He said? Look, look. You counts are up today and then he looked at my husband and he looked at me again and he said your labs are really good today, but you do need to start. I am fusion's right away, but creature I saw well I'm sure I said for that so strange, because I don't feel like what is look at em like ok, ok, Patty,
an appointment for the following day to get her first iron infusion and left with her husband in the car on the way home he was upset. My husband looks at me and he said I cannot believe he just told you you have Milo dispersed and that you need chemo. He showed you and you're not doing it. I'm I'm not doing it. Why would I do that? If I'm not gonna shoot that simple transparent and then it is? I you can't. You had cut out here, cut out your blood I'm night and keep us chemically really sick. I could die from Kyoto.
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didn't think it was a good idea. I said if I get sick and then Florida I gotta, urging their whatever and get on antibiotics things. I know Tom Covert, urging care I said: okay I'll go to an er and he said no don't go to any er and said. What would you like me to do? He said just call me: if you get sick, just call me, I will call you in a script. You should make your memory, then, if you're going to do it go ahead and do it, but he said you could get really sick and die. Patty's family was impressed. Does my family side so kind of him, you know that he's gonna do that if you get sick and any time of day or night, just call him on the flight to Lando Patty had to wear a mask to protect her from getting sick and Sarah looked at me and said Patty. Why do you have to wear their child spread germs and said? Oh, I, like you too
well then I don't get sack you know she said you're not said Patty wanted this trip to be all about her niece, not her illness. We had us be sure we saw the fireworks every night. Now. We have to make sure that now all wonder of a child, but there were times when paddies relatives couldn't high. are worried and my brother in law. He cried in his seat on the plane. That fact that you know he's going to take lots of pictures, because this could be. It he's been a fortune on this trip and when she got home she kept spending and she didn't stop there. I started giving things away We would like their certain pinions that I had done. I gave away My wedding rings. I
the way arm my ski outfit and Debbie Bronze key re. She pay for every trip. Everybody got the best. Christmas presents the best birthday gives a live this if I was dying and yet most days, Paddy felt great. She tried her best to stay positive. That summer she finished her fitness studies and started her own company fitness for you. She started teaching work out classes at her chair waits poor sit up, chats stability boss, ironically, it was usually after getting iron infusions. A doctor fought his office should feel her worst one. That summer. She was getting an infusion when she started to feel dizzy. She asked them to stop the end. fusion and bring her some water, but the nurses were too busy. Petty desperately needed water and just wanted to get out of there. Sir. She left
some going down the stairs, I'm so nauseated. I suffer the bath when the main floor lobby go in there and throw up about six months under a treatment the arrived home to find a police car in her driveway. It was for her husband, he Cotter, do you I. I had no idea where my husband had started drinking they didn't know what to think. Has she knew was a hiker runner, but hence drinking and smoking after Patty was diagnosed. I knew you were true for me. He would say to me that I cannot bear the thought there, something that could say give you more time- and you are not doing this guy's renown sky- is the tat. Still nothing could make her start chemo, even though Doktor Father continued twins based on it. He called her a pollyanna said she was in denial, constant
He reminded her that she was terminally. Ill Had he couldn't understand how this could be when she didn't feel sick, Doktor Father tried to explain it. You're once during an exam, the wind of his office, looked out over a hilly ski resort. That was once a landfill. You know. That's built on garbage right, doktor far too said looking out the window at the resort. It looks good on the other it's like you, you look in the mirror and you think I'm doing ok, but inside you're really sick. In the spring of two thousand thirteen. Three years after first meeting Doktor Fatah, Patty was office, getting an infusion. She liked to listen to music during our treatment, but to turn her chair toward the door to see who is coming in this day was no different, so far about
forty minutes into her infusion, a crowd of younger people filed into the room with an older patient. The person was in a wheelchair, Philip or about third completely may seed it. They were so skinny and slipped over, and this will chair Patty turned off on music, so she could hear what was happening whatever it was. I didn't look good and she said how long they been that way and the girl said old. We had addressed him. He was like this when we got there, so the house, I'm like Patty, who still worked in the e r, wondered. What is this person doing here? He should be at the hospital just then a woman with the patient spoke up. She said we call the encounter protestant sellers you just treatment. I resumed their hours late floor. I couldn't believe it. I was beyond my capacity under
she had this war. By with this personnel have treatment the nurse scurried out of the infusion room when she came back, she was s, wording to emergency medical workers carrying in encouraging padding, recognise one of them and flagged him down and like a going down for the personal and then I sat on, I think they persons tat knees. I really am light serious. I remember. Patty had been coming to doktor fighters office for three years yours and this this shocked her around the same time, the Patty was diagnosed. Some one else arrived at doktor fought his office for the first time she saw a different side of the practice and right away. She knew that something was very, very wrong. We all know
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envy empty dot com, Slash wondering get fifteen percent off today with fast free shipping and free returned by going to envy m t dot com, Slash wondering what, if your mother left to follow a cold or you woke up in a morgue, this is actually happening. Brings you extraordinary true stories, told by people who lived them stick around to the end of this episode to hear a preview of this is actually happening or listen ad free by joining wondering plus in the wonder, YAP. Angela Swan Tec is a trim woman with dark, curls and brown eyes. Few people stumbled to their careers quite like she did it all started with an accident,
He was six years old. I sister push me and my leg went through the window and I caught my leg and I thought it was the coolest thing ever. I had to go, get seven stitches, I loved being at the hospital, and it was one of those things that I thought I think I wanna be a nurse. So that's what she did when that's who she was nursing shaped her parenting. My daughter's say it was a rough childhood having a mom as a nurse, because if your arm or leg was it hanging from your body or you weren't actively bleeding, they really got no sympathy from me. It shaped her dinner conversation. I had a patient who had a tumor on his neck and one day it just exploded all over the window and it looked like a crime scene, so so bad. That was a good story and it affected how she thought about casual exe.
Actions be, was coughing gagging, it was like he was choking on something and we saw that there was blood coming out of his mouth, so we got him back to bad and I did a finger sweep and pulled out a piece of tissue. It was a piece of his long that had broken off, so you know you really can't cough up along people. Don't get the humour in that by two thousand and ten Angela had been, and on college nurse for nurse for nineteen years she worked at a pretty big oncology practice in editorial Detroit suburb. She the job, but it was the commute that was getting to her as a single mom, getting two daughters to all of their sports practices after school was becoming a strain so one day at work, she pulled a drug rap aside and ask if she knew any doctors closer to home who are looking for
college nurse. She had told me that Doctor Fatah was looking for a nurse and I so I don't even know who that is- and she told me where his office was, which was literally about five miles from my house. So I was so excited Angelo was already solved, but since should never heard of Doktor Fatah she inquired a little more about it. The truck rap such you heard some things she like scrunched up her nose almost like. If you eat something bad, you know that kind of a face like air yuck, but never really sad. You know she had nothing specific to add too, but she really one in this job to work out. She knew it somewhere closer to her. I just thought. Ok, I'm gonna make my own opinion. I'm gonna go on with a very open mind: Angela had an interview a week later overall shield to what she saw, but she wanted to get a better feel for the daily grind, so she
ask if she could shadow and nurse at the practice. A few days later, Angelo arrived at doktor fought as office, and I was so excited about. This could be my DR every single morning. I mean it literally took me five minutes and I thought maybe, in this I can even write my bike here. The nurse she was supposed to shadow was already busy, so Angela waited for her in the infusion room. I thought how it eight o clock and this place is already bumping. I mean that if I remember correctly, they had a probably about sixteen or seventeen chemotherapy He chairs in their infusion room. Every chair was already full but away, she noticed some irregularities. Chemotherapy by infusion is a cocktail of powerful chemicals packaged in drip bag. It must be done supposed up in a hazardous material container the infusion,
chairs. Were patients receive chemo are kind of like big lazy boy reclining each one is. Post to have a yellow bucket to dispose of the chemo, so nobody else has to touch it, but as far as Angela could tell not a single chair and doktor fathers infusion room had one of these buckets she scheme, the room searching for the bright yellow containers. When I turned around there was the nurses station and then the pharmacy mixes the chemotherapy, and that's when I saw the one and only yellow bucket- and I thought wow, the nurses take the key Motown. They walk through the infusion around and they come over here and dispose of the came on like that's, not very safe, and you can get fined for that. Angela hadn't been there, but about
I've minutes. Just then the head nurse appeared and introduced herself. There wasn't much time for getting to know each other with a roomful of patients, so she got straight to business. The nurse printed off some labels for the came out there be drugs and she took a black sharply and began numbering them. One through six Angela had never seen this before. She asked why she was doing that and the nurse said well this way the medical assistant knows which bag to hang necks- and, I said wait. Why not a closed systems are not allowed to dispense any type of medication. Let alone came of it
PE didn't the nurse noses. Angela wondered the nurse said. Well, you know we're busy and that's how we do it here. Are medical assistance hang chemo? I dont have a really good poker face and I know that my mouth kind of dropped open my eyes. You know got really back so to me. There was strike We're till she moved on to the next task with the nurse who was hanging in infusion bag for a patient out of curiosity Angelo, looked at the label on the bag to see what type of drug the patient was receiving. The name was fell, Cade V, I'll, see a d, and I looked at it and looked at it again and I thought what the heck is that in a bag
Angelo was very familiar with this type of chemo drug you're supposed to administer it with a syringe, not a bag, a maximum doses anywhere between three to five cc's, a fluid and the nurse just pushes it in its supposed to go over like three to five seconds, not in an ivy bag over an hour. Normally, the dose for this drug is about the size of a tablespoon, and now you ve added it to this large volume. Has that night now deluded the drug? Is that even working because now so delude Emmy. This is why drugs are have to be given a certain way, because that's how they work Angela was concerned about whether the drug would even work There was another issue, a treatment that would nor may be done in a matter of minutes. Would instead, in our view, it would be much more.
Expensive. The nurse said: that's how Doktor Fatah ordered it. That's how we do it here and that was with every single patient and then she went to go. Hang just Rebecca fluid on hydrogen on a patient, and I said, oh well: why are they getting there? migration. You know where they having nausea vomiting diarrhoea. Are they hypo time said the nurse said no we always have patients who come back the day after chemotherapy to replenish their fluids. It makes them feel better. I make Wyatt, why are you giving them hydrogen if they don't need it? too much. Fluid can be hard on a patient's organs. It wasn't the only disagree the two of them had impatient after patient Angela,
says she raised concerns an her, and I would like to kids like two toddlers arguing that, yes, it is no, it isn't. Yes, it is notice it, and then she pulled out like the drug handbook and then immediately clear. Like looked up the dragoon closed it and she said It's just how we do it here. Angela didn't know. What to make of this was the nurse just careless and blaming Doktor Fatah, or was it something worse either way should soon enough- and I said you know I thank you for your time, but this is not gonna work because I was trained very differently she grabbed or purse and turned to walk out. Angela had been there, maybe you all of an hour, but before she left she had some power words from the nurse. The only advice that I'm gonna give you is in a court of law, the job
He will come back to you in her nineteen years of nursing. Angela had never encountered anything like what she saw and she had. No. Idea how to confront this kind of situation. Had Google How to report a physician. She went to a website for Michigan Department that handles doktor complaints the same office that issues her nursing licence, the inside directions weren't, all that clear, but eventually she found a complaint form printed it off and began riding. He is Jeff riding the insurance company by infusing all of these medications longer than what they are supposed to be insurance fraud. I put in there that he should be investigated by Blue Cross Blue Shield, Medicare and Medicaid. I made two
that he was doing his patients more harm than good. The form gave her the option to remain anonymous. Angela marked no, she won to tell someone what she saw in the office that day when she was finished. She made a copy put it in a novel. And dropped it in the mailbox, and then I thought, oh, my god. What did I just do? A nurse reporting a doctor is a big deal. Doctors are put on a pretty high pedestal. There are revenue generator for the hospital, the nurses week off the hospital money because we don't generate any income for the hospital and if you look at a doctor and a nurse he's the doctor he's the doctor, you are just a nurse, and so here's me filing an a pretty serious allegation against a pretty well
spected oncologist in the community, its career suicide. She suspected that most people in her position would keep quiet people just quit. People which has led the office, but then nobody would do anything. I finally did something: Angela was terrified. Oh, my god is he gonna find out there I turned him in. He has my resume. He has my address. He could ruin my. rare, but you know why I didn't care. I didn't care Somebody had to be the voice of those patients, somebody Angela waited, but before she a word from the medical born. She would cry. pass was Doktor Fatah again and it would turn that insurance fraud was just the start. Doktor Fatah was causing perfectly healthy patients to get terribly ill or even
die coming up this season on doc Her death he's a psychopath. I mean what else is there to say he would walk into a doctor's office patient look them in the eye and lighted them and say you have. Cancer She just looked at my sister, and I said I am so sorry girls, but I'm just gonna have to die. What do I do? I do I get to the Department of Justice right now. Do I just pull a firearm, tell everybody to run for their locks and they came in and showed their badges and set were here about italian college, you doctor Fatah and I crying, from wondering. This is episode. One of five of Sea two of doktor death. If you'd like to list
to the next episode ad free join wondering plus in the wonderful up right now. This is the story of hundreds of patients in Michigan, a doctor and a poisonous secret. If you wanna help spread the word Please give us a five star rating and a review on Apple podcast and be sure to tell your friends subscribe on Apple podcast, Spotify, the wondering app or wherever your listing right. Now, I'm host. Lord Veal, Heather swearing, wrote and reported this story associate produce There is Chris single story. Editors, Casey, minor fact: checking by Jacqueline quality. Additional production assistance from Daniel Gonzalez managing producer is lotta panda, sound design by Jeff Schmidt, Our executive producers are George Lavender Marshall Lily. And her Nan Lopez for wonder
What would you do if something happened that changed your life forever, something that called into question everything you ve ever known? I felt her hand moved my hair of the side of my neck and in like one swift motion, she slipped my throat, I'm witness alone. I have a phd in social psychology, and a single question has fascinated me for over a decade what happens when we come face to face with the unknown and are plunged into a completely new reality. I could feel these entities Jeffrey was acumen wrapped around my torso. From each week I bring you extraordinary. True story is told by the people who have them. Your brain is different and you can go back to her. This is actually happening. Lunch
weekly with all new episodes on a tumor twentieth, subscribe on Apple, podcast, Spotify or wherever you're listening right now or listen ad free on wondering plus tech entrepreneurs or in an all out race to cash in on our collective addiction to social media. It's a fight that started in Silicon Valley. That's now gone global, higher Brown, the host of wandering show business wars. We go deep into some of the biggest corporate right, rise all time and in our latest series we tracked the ward The Chinese in american Start ups as they do get out for our eyeballs, but tastes are fickle. Join us for Tik Tok versus Instagram, listen Apple, podcast, Spotify were listen ad free by joining one reply, ass in the wondering app
Transcript generated on 2020-12-03.