From the 2020 virtual Builders + Innovators Summit, Goldman Sachs' Kim Posnett speaks with two founders -- Irving Fain of Bowery Farming and Sheila Gujrathi of Gossamer Bio -- about their experiences leading through an unexpected year and the backdrop for entrepreneurship more broadly.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
They gave exchanges involvement, factual. We discuss development, curly, shaping markets, industries in the global economy, I'm Jake's Ewart, gallbladder corporate communications for Goldman Sachs, and today we're taping from our annual builders and innovators summit each year We gather some of the most exciting entrepreneurs for week of learning, idea, sharing and networking. Typically we'd be a beautiful Santa Barbara, but this year were hosting the summit virtually by were delighted. We joined by to entrepreneurs to talk with their found journeys other adapting through and unexplored. The year, to say the least, and what their most optimistic about as we think about the future. We have Irving Thing CO founder in old, Bowery Farming, which is a modern farming company and a veteran of the builders, an inverse conference and shoe
There's Roddy CO founder and feel gossamer bile, a clinical stage bile pharmaceutical company we're also joined by compassionate global co, head of investment banking Services Year Goldman Sachs, who share her perspective on the state of origin? nor ship more broadly Kim and Sheila. Thank you very much for joining us today, thanks for having us. Thank you. For we die, then, let's just do introductions left here, the elevator pitch battery farming and gotten, thereby Irving off with you thanks, origin and see said modern firing? Companies are what what does that mean. So at Bowery we build smart indoor farms that we locate close to the cities of reserve, so these are large warehouse scale. Arms where we grow our crops and we stack them for the floor all the way to the ceiling and they grow underlines that ministers, action of the sun.
because the way we can grow, we grow three hundred and sixty five days a year. We are completely pesticide free over a hundred times past, more productive square put a farm, land only use a fraction of the water compared to traditional agriculture at your turn, yeah so gossamer via the clinical stage, bad company, where we're really focus on developing novel, their kids, the deed, these areas of immunology information on Kaji, and I- they think of us as a disruptive vision, development engine where we haven't credible team who had years of experience in three, and what were trying to do is to bring the best a buyer farmer together the best ethnic, where you're, nimble, entrepreneurial, everyday towns, The sense of urgency with really the best, a farmer where you had that high quality excellence and drug development. We actually have a whole portfolio,
dying away from the very beginning versus one assets. It we have a really great, measured and clinical profile short explain why you started automobile and what problems specifically you trying to solve, and why do you think you're the right person to do that? That's great question so started? Gossamer, Bio, it's really a company in my dreams. In terms a really does raise, gathered the Italian. My experience and I've had a work that large companies, the genetic where's, the Mayas, where, where I was a therapeutic, had a metre for emu worthy of the name, working at a small company with sectors where I was achievement of officer which we sought to sell gene in guarding fifteen for about I don't make a billion dollars at the time. Don't you agree exit out this experience, but I had developed throughout my career and very grateful that, after the president, I had with him again a team of industry. but they also that by its Spirit and Billy Hearted,
by individuals who actually read that needle So I thought you really create a next generation by a company and building on our experience I have read together is dollar team that team with the right people without inflation mindset, you again take a bit you really novel, immunology Development and better organisation or Immunology, though I thought I would be a good person to leave us upper and also really, though supported them the very strong riding culture. The believer really drives reforming and doing by any small environment needs to be so much value. You know them it would have been lost in the bigger Parma company, though I thought the pleasure new way to move forward within armor and I wanted to do that. I wonder company be your dreams, we'll be back a little bit more. Russian, that culture and a little bit curving? What's this joint lead you to start Bowery
So I've been out for nerve. Since I was a very young kid, I was up to every little hustle you gotta badge in, but I was growing up. I would drag my younger brother behind me whether was my snow shambling business or our leave breaking business or whatever else get me, I had to start suddenly a different journey than Bowery, but I had this is always the sea. I knew I wanted the city- maybe not as a farmer per se, but certainly is not for no more than I could have been technology innovation economy for almost twenty years now and then started out actually is part of a small team figuring out Digital for clear China, which is the largest radio company in the world and with, The key in the door by our radio and rolled back out, which was just incredible experience and ultimately decided to leave start something my own and I wouldn't built an enterprise software business in New York. I accompanied our crowds with which we are, they saw the Oracle, and when I started to think about what I wanted to do next, what I really really cared about was a work.
On something that I had an enormous passion for, but be working on, a problem that I thought mattered to larger society as a whole, and I really wanted to work on something that I thought could make a broader impact, and I've been a believer since I was a young kid techniques g in the innovation economy can be used to solve hard and important problems and You look at agriculture, it is is, in fact, have been nexus of many of the global challenges that we face today said percent of the world's water every year goes down agriculture. We put down about sixty billion pounds of pesticides annually across the world and what that call as is over the last forty years, actually losses. Thirty percent them bar arable farming, and so you have a system. It's alright, stretching and straining? And then you look at what is happening in the world around us is gonna, be nine to ten billion people on the planet Thirty years, the? U N, what are you? We need, somewhere between fifty to seventy percent, more food to feed their population
and all the while seventy to eighty percent of people to be living in and cities in this next thirty year period, and so I got really obsessed with this question of how do you provide fresh the urban environment and how do you do in a way that sport more efficient and more sustainable and not really, what drove me the found and create Bowery, and it's really based upon a technological foundation as well both your companies. It strikes me a lot of people around the world didn't think much about these kinds of issues, recently, but she'll now everyone in America because of covert, is thinking about drug development and kind of the technology. Behind pharmaceuticals. Talk a little bit about the landscape today, as someone who really knows it well and is in an armchair expert: what's it like the product, about a niece and gain tractor. What the super ground industry today? It is turning first of all, we are in an unprecedented time in turn
The innovation that we're seeing with the new tools and resources we have around genetics. What is above all in terms of a new insights, forgetting in the type of drug development that we want to pursue. So it's so exciting to be in this field. I ve never seen the rate of which the new discoveries are being made at never in the type of energy, something that was allotted work on, though it is an unprecedented time. The other chance I went by in Burma that preventive work on typically are very resourceintensive. It just takes a lot of capital to be able to run, the trial that we need to run it there. You're, not a risk in terms of whether the mechanism is going to pay out in the patient, but we think and hope for in terms of really achieving clinical benefit. Did you do that with a small company? in these areas where there could be a lot of competition, is always a challenging and consensus it really a daunting task, birth, small back to pursue
something. But you have to be very spoke at nine. You have learned of expertise and know what you're doing, because you really cannot afford any list that the small company worth and bigger companies Burma companies. You had a lot of research that then you can have a multiple sites, a programme did you have to really get a right, the first time out of the gate. another level of assuring you do me a lot of bad company. Going after wear out your orphan tabled? These areas are going up areas where we are not being perceived. The larger companies do we the important demanded, were a buyer. We like to be very active in these our aim and were competing sometimes directly against them you can understand the science to execute and get locally I've done inedible him, so that's it we're doing but it can be really competitive environment. It would just have to be that much we're on our aim of Kim you work
the otter browser throughout your career. How would you describe the atmosphere amongst the entrepreneurial community today about the challenging year in many respects? But what are you heard from start up? in terms of how their meaning those challenges and continued to innovate, first of all, to congratulate both the view urban and Sheila on your unbelievable success among thrills me. Working with both viewed by Jacon or to answer your question, you know it's mixed coded impact early stage, businesses in very different ways. In some cases, entrepreneur suddenly find themselves facing prolonged, zero revenue environments in other cases, covered massively accelerated adoption of their products, technology or sector, I will say that the common thread, a monks, My clients who are found is not was not whether there running any business. There was a cold. And if the sheer you're not is
credible, resilience, conviction and innovation. A lot about looking into a black abyss back in March and April, and you leave should be answered, It is unbelievable ability, as you all know, to sort of a just when the ground shifts beneath them, and I This year has been remarkable to see the entrepreneurs, your pillar, two new world. We live in I you knew an entrepreneur in London who the business that was bound to be very successful in the long run during covered, but that first couple months with just brutal for a company that, within the right space at the right time to kill in Irving, What about the impact of covert on your businesses and what are you ve had a pivot alot? Let's talk shop So I had no idea I've been getting through the commitment I make and there have been many areas in which its impact of our business, the first most critical area, is our ability to conduct clinical trials. That, as you can imagine, this is our business. We go globally Toronto
the I'm. Sometimes I mean thirteenth eighteen, twenty countries. All over the world working with its sights in hospitals and clinics to try to get up here the more the tourist studies and when we come in I'm about a lot of these centres inciting hospitals to shut down an appropriately. So because they really high The man is a red, One area that were to increase development is commoner. Acute apprehension and these patients really have a lot Charles because they tend to go into my heart: failure to their managed by critical care doctors, intensive bids cardiologist, all the same conditions, iraqi, treating prove it now and they themselves are very fragile, so it really could afford to have any risk because of their higher Marbury immortality made and the red, though, for example, by I'm gonna, try that we were money just shut down. We had to suspend and even though these patients are in dire need of new therapy tobacco.
a big area in terms of understanding how to navigate through their work with the site. If conditions also stressed in overwork other make sure that we can involve patients, maybe even start a shipping dry directly, the patient's home, a Billy, grant remote lab services for patients to be able to get their assessment that we can make sure that reassuring eight. The entering the clinical excitement were benefit clinical trials and as one Bulgaria and were really been navigating that we learned a lot. We had the kid it will have to become more nimble numbers and how to conduct trials in this age of where we need to do more virtual, Manfred, embedded in the night natures up one Bulgaria is lacking went to be, even though we were globally? We can't really, and multifunctional past until collaboration team, because so many areas of expertise that you need a biotech gibbey quickly bring like bored, I will take the village
to bring new medicine board for patient internally in a company of an extremely working with contract wondering hundred meters organisations and, of course, the condition that the nurses that we work with but we really feed off and energy. We have a key needing to relate to echo localised and that has really gone away, but we had to work virtually. So how do we continue to have that dialogue that we need to have in that work when buying were all working on you all day long and that you will take that occurred during the first that the day, though the undersigned understand. How do we continue to the great dial up need to have other fast functional team and still maintain people's anti love on other private culture and make sure that we don't want to be here which has been child you to give away? It's amazing how Vassili the organization I haven't been able to pick it up. We ve actually been more productive and this time approve it.
In terms of internal came driving him just reading what we decide that they get up and running and exciting, but a lot of learning, Irving Odyssey in the early days, the pandemic in New York and other other places. People lily wondering. How do I get food? And here you are in the city, growing The people want. What happened? You been that period, nay, your exactly right. I think that what we ve been interesting for us is the value proposition about here and what our focus is today hasn't changed in the five years that I've been building the company. But why has happened. Is that covered in the pandemic really heightened people's aware quickly around the fragility of our fresh food supply chain, our food supply chain in general. I think people in this You particularly absurd and taken for granted the ability to walk into a grocery store import shelf. Anything you want at any time and as we all know, that a lot imagination behind the scenes goes on to allow that to be possible and
what we are really able to provide a Bowery fundamentally, is surety of supply. Year round us fuller supply chain overall any much safer products in general and has matter long before covert and we were experiencing tremendous growth before covered, but certainly the pandemic has acted as a major salary and so were actually were incredibly proud. Now to be the largest indoor vertical farming company in the country, and we seen over six hundred percent growth this year, so we started the ear and under a hundred stores and now we're in over six hundred any stores and again, of course, that the Pandemic Nick Seller- and it's not that the reason alone for that growth and we really seen consume and retailers, look more and more for safety in the products that they have an looking that surety of supply- and I think that is something that we're gonna see continue. Moving for people to be asking the question more and more about how safe there,
I Jane, is how reliable is that supply chain? I think particularly around food We are so reliant on other countries in other regions of this country. Together we need, and over the last decade so it certainly in the last five years. Covert is a major disruption, but by no means is it the only destruction we experience has been more food safety incidences of two thousand eighteen. There were in the prior ducking and something for accelerating in general in these areas it and we do need to think about how we gonna change the food system. and everyone looking for tightening up their suppliers. And if they can your great solution, that can we talk about technology? Of course, when we talk about turnips but talk a little bit, are we seeing a trend of businesses across all industries calling himself companies or just using technology as a sort of vehicle about them, escape their visions and so decide which themselves from the competition.
a question. I think, Jake. You know my view on this a breeze from view. I think technology is critical to the future. In every respect. The truly great companies will have the best people, the best culture and the best technology, and they will be The brothers distinctions about who the tech company or not as easily is Tesla an auto company or is it a tech companies books is Netflix a company or attack open its both is Amazon, consumer retail company or tackled with its both you, Goldman Sachs, is definitely investment bank. We will see what we are today without tee culture and technology that I think we can say that I dont think any company will win regardless of the sector therein. Without meaningfully leveraging technology going for it, show Sheila. I mean I fear in biotech companies technology. Innovation is absolute quarter. What you do would have looked like actually in practice, a gospel
They include. I love what you said: people Culture, and technology. I think that so right is Molly. What we do is how we do it, and it drives requirements, a dry sustainability and especially in this work or talent, then we're having in the virtual pandemic. It's something that even more critical viability love the summary that was bright and your way but did not decide. It is critical in it. You gotta dimensions, unrest in time with all the novel insects we're getting from did you know if that were learning really from patient themselves in August regained the deep, the greek political work we do. Even before we get for midnight, the urban I actually known ass. Well, ass. Nothing isn't, I could predict with, though there is so much technologies Amabel despite expand,
some are there any note the cushions can get access to read. Some of it is really you can be very smart and how to work with the experts in the field of the academic, research, insufficient or other companies that are developing technologies in a certain area. though I thought and where what we try to do is employed much and and believe that peace is progressing were, and sometimes they will what you're sick with bought the r? U percent about me wherever translational company and we have to have an integration between research, the translational, I can't let you bridge between research in the clinical studies looking at biomarker genetic, all the debate they were getting on the mechanism under clinical trial as well, the clinical drunk. as you know, these patients inside out. So what we are doing is working with a number of different experts in the field and everything area were in a retrial, always preached?
Hungary, on those novel insight that even when they go into the clinic, we don't start or research work. I, like you, say it's not really. Research and development is the programs you were on. This continue to drive insight by doing the preclinical, Only by doing the transitional period legal working with specialised biometric companies under different programmes? these areas to learn as much as we can used to understand how we refined occasions there were selecting for clinical trials. I novel insight and how we're going to do about the next set. If there is the next generation of therapies based on the current programmes, is that really what we focused on debt cancellation of I wanted just add something like the king had said: for which I thought was a really important point, resonate with me, because the Bowery, if we add Bowery, have really believe technology and innovation can solve hard and important problems, and so the way-
we build our farms and what makes what we do possible is a combination of robotics motivation which we develop and create for, growing systems and the processing overall, but also what we call the Bowery operating system, which is like the brains of our farm, and it combines software artificial intelligence Peter vision to monitor and maintain our crops in real time and ensure their getting exactly what they need when they need. It makes the whole system highly scalable because, in essence were building a distributed network of arms in every new farm that comes our line as the benefit of the network before it and then that far too strengthens that network. All that sad- and we talk about this- a lot we get had the most amazing technology in the world if the food We grow, doesn't tasting credible. It doesnt matter because you bring it home to your family. You eat it yourself, your kids eating food is such a highly personal and social. Poland of our lives, that it has to be amazing, it has to taste incredibly hassle.
Vibrant and exciting for people, and so the technology's critically important, but without the food and the taste of over delivering. On the other side, it's only one piece of a puzzle and it doesn't really complete the picture, and so I think what TIM was saying about technology, part of a larger picture- is exactly how we think about this about as well. For me I'll get it It is like the original high tech industry right, I mean literally the mark motivation began with technological inversion farming, but in my knees and ensure part of the last century, farming techniques. He developed a bad reputation, Some level. Are you reclaim a technology as a force for good in farming? What you say, exactly right, which is farming, is ten thousand plus years all right. This is probably the oldest in the largest industry. There is, and it was our
regional understanding you know ten thousand years ago, that you could ploughing field and you could plant seeds and I actually allowed us to start to establish civilizations and stopped hunters and gatherers, and we continued innovate from air, but there's consistency for the last ten thousand years in agriculture, which is agriculture, has always innovated around the desire to figure out. How can we control for a set of externalities is that we have no control of right. We can control the whether you can do cold, it is or how hard it is, how much a range of how much it does in the neutral that are or not in the soil, and so much or almost all of the agricultural innovation has been around. How do we deal with those externalities that we can't control and that went from every rudimentary tools to mechanized files and tractors and then in the nineteen fifty when we started to say how do we get cheaper food,
much larger quantities. That was when we start to look at chemicals, otherwise, pesticides or fertilizers, and eventually we actually went to the genetics of the crops and sounds which show it. I think about what we're doing a boundary is, in essence, were completely flipping that equation on its head and we capacity Bowery to intimately control all the externalities help a crop grown. And bribe and not only grow is healthy is a canvas. Taste is incredible, as it contains And when you can control all of those externalities, you no longer need to rely on chemicals. You no longer need to change the genetics and crops necessarily, and you have the ability now to grow crops it. Actually you don't see in our day to day life, because if you look at industrialized agriculture, We essentially a chosen crops in seed to deal with three things. How do we transport these key? for thousands of miles and they show up and they look good and how do they resist pasts in drought, on the field
and that really is the most important determining factor in choosing what we grow. Those aren't variables We have to worry about at Bowery, so we have the capacity to work with seed companies and fight this is incredible varieties and flavors that slim remind you of what your grandmother's guard. Naturally, tasted like in the protests you got out of your grandmother's gardens because We now at scale can grow crops without the consent the external world. That has really been plaguing, in causing difficulty in agriculture for decades. In and really thousands of years really call him you're veteran of these buildings. Earlier summit being I, what do you mean this year? I know it's very different, you not to do it, but surely, but what have you learned from your client means is here in and what makes you up the mystic when it comes to the state of entrepreneurs.
Ship. You know, as I very much agree with, but a renewed just said, and you don't you know the say necessity is the mother of invention. I think that really really applies to interpret the ship today. Twenty twenty one your profoundly difficult year for all of us to the east in a whether that was Colbert. Public health challenges, unemployment racial inequity, social injustice, international challenges is just that sound societal challenges that world dealing with you know and my students and first by nature. I just think that the primary driving force for innovation isn't profound meat. As you are aware, we have been talking about and Society has no need today, and so that actually, the optimistic brought from your ship setting coming out of this very difficult period. No, I haven't your face in entrepreneur, and found founders to sort solve these very added the challenges
her face and so on, options for the future. I am optimistic fur entrepreneurship well I'm a more optimistic about entrepreneurship. The name about our government right now saw him he's she'll up. What do you mean? finally about regarding the future, a new field and in the future of better drugs, yeah- and I wanted to build upon. Billiton, analogous thinking that Irving has been talking about in the farming area, because you're trying to reduce uncertainty and you try and have more control over the outcomes and, as you all know, development is littered with failures. Right I mean when you look at the percentage of programmes had actually make it into one two three and then get approval issued, attrition read through the pipeline and our whole. Go I've been How do we minimize earlier meat that is your mate lower and have more successes over time? They think we have all these rules. Now, would you earlier?
able to predict better the outcomes from a benefit from a clinical advocates, invented the perspective, including which patients would be the most benefit responders my earpiece, so that over always trying to figure out what mechanisms to work? How did you forget? It increase the possibilities that says they were going to be moving mechanisms and programmes, whether their large modules, injectors alma, killed or dialogue there Your team therapy into the later to you too, really help patients and minimize a still larger trial and also hiding him. He really managed for the sake of it, I think you're bringing up early like we're, also always trying to see how do we make sure that these are state Arab is repeated than haven't. You forget, you know who's going to happen. Eight the issues, and how do we minimize that living with the advent of artificial intelligence and the new algorithms that were developing boy data
there we have access to where we can actually look at these assembled in interrogate mechanism. Before we go into the trial, all its hopefully will improve the possibility of us to be able to deliver excessive since her patience, and that's all about that unmet need help patients, because there is much unmet need there in every disease I've been looking at even the leisure, with great successes arose, a big mountain and some of them. How did your mother failures and dragged about me? I just have to get back to you and I think the successes you dont thereby create basically neither is it a come. The last ten years alone, with different diseases. You know it's just astounding to me, so I am very optimistic. Also came that he said I may be. I am an optimist at heart, but I think we ve done a credible amount of work already and we have a lot more to do. The human body is very complex, but were up to the challenge earlier. I figure soon. The optimists camp. I can detect from your tone today that pile on
what she said. What makes me optimistic about the future sustainable food and the opportunity there? I think your hard pressed upon an entrepreneur who is not optimistic. I think it's probably table stakes fruits for taking it. Journey- maybe I'm wrong, but I think you have to be pretty is drawn up in order to be able, at the stomach the ups and downs holding anything. You do your question specifically. I am incredibly optimistic about what's ahead for farming and Annabelle food system in general, you specifically It's it's our industry, a Bowery. I am incredibly excited about just what's ahead for indoor farming, it as a part of producers, forward and a part of a more sustainable food system. We see a market, that's all billion dollars a year in the? U S and about a trillion dollars a year globally and that's just for crops that we think are good candidates for nor farming, a dowry, and so the opportunity really is enormous and it's not It is only in the EU as it is a true global opportunity, particularly, is over seventy five
percent of the food crisis that we in the EU as it is grown here in the. U S where there are many many countries, rights, fractional and most of their food is coming from countries and long distances of the need for a better or regionalize food system is, is becoming more acute and I think that's the second piece for me. The drives a lot of optimism is, I think, you're gonna, to see a strengthening in the regional food systems again, which is really important and you're gonna start to see assurance that. each of our regionalized areas, whether its countries in other parts of the world are different parts of our country to you ass, a stronger food chest. That is more self reliant in that area, that product Caesar, either regenerative or more sustainable. In the way people are farming. I think you're finding that people are figuring how to work hand in hand with technology more effectively and that could be precision agriculture, so farmers are using driven irrigation or are being more thoughtful about the inputs they're. Putting on that using
the satellite imagery and drone imagery to be more thoughtful about, what's being applied, and when I think as we maturing quickly as the technology sector and that technology sector is meeting agriculture sector. We are finally out how to work while hand in hand with one another than that's. A really important development for all of us is global citizens out excellent work, before we cause I'd like to get one piece: invite me to you that you'd give to somebody thinking of starting on business. She all about you, so many advice. He could give him. I guess I've three area than inside not just mind, but the first is basically focused on yourself and I think, really believing in yourself and having that tenacity and resilience to go the dream and stick with it. Good you'll have ups down the low point only make the high point sweeter, but you have to really believe in yourself and have that Tunisia, business beside you really surrounding herself with great people be very lonely journey, especially
a founder and an entrepreneur and Theo, but company you could buy debate mentors and supporters surround yourself with I'm really at that dinner executive level as well as your board. Do you have a board? Is love people you work with the company I see the people are platform and so incredibly important we use ran up and the third is imperative, Howard Shalt brought up yesterday when we were talking about the journey Starbuck than his personal journey at the round, really making sure you alive nearby and you dont lose that authenticity and for myself the diet that respects fabric in a burly whereby value it's humility, and I really love, and he brought up the importance of being humble, and I think that so important for an entrepreneur you're, not humble you'll, miss the signals. You won't listen to your employees, you all today, what's happened around you
You may not make my decisions if you don't take all of that into account. So I really think she melody is a really cool core value for me and I think it's important really any entrepreneur, earning. Have you a minute, Sheila's play one, can give you a couple hours while I'm here. I think the first thing I would say is It's hard to give entrepreneurs advice, it doesn't come up. His cliche outside boy acknowledge that, but I think doing things that you care. Out and in it sounds so simple, but that could be work on a problem. You care about that could be work on tape. Ology they you care about or work a broader value that you care about is well but This is a long journey, it's hard and it takes time and if you dont have real personal it batsman in what you're building they will eventually, where you down the second thing I would say The people are everything in every company of all sizes. People are everything, but particularly when you're starting a company in the euro,
it is the people you bring on board outside the impact on your ability to be successful, so both being thoughtful about who you bring. and your team, but also being self reflective about what's important year business. You as a founder, are strong and where there are gaps and making sure you that great people to fill those gaps in is really critical. The success and the less, I would say is every entrepreneurs should have a healthy balance of both optimism, but also scepticism. You I just before, but you can't in an age of Bernard is not up the mystic, because four per one to jump off a cliff. You ought to be optimistic that you gonna land on the bottom or start flying as they would say but the other side is, you need to have an appropriate amount of scepticism as well. Whatever I may, people are starting businesses. I would say that if you can't tell me a hundred reasons why this isn't gonna work and you haven't thought hard enough about it and you need to be willing to put cause your own ideas and also talk to people
be contrary. Interpol calls your ideas as well, because that's really what makes new better and that's what makes your company better off. Well, like all- would you can barely inshallah for joining. It is always one white paper did a year, but the Pretoria today They are drowning, since both of you she'll on urban Congrats again all right, an opening a chance next year to do this, while our looking out over the Pacific Ocean Man get up there on the businesses and how you doing, but I am optimistic about both of your businesses, so that conclude, this episode exchangeable. In fact, thanks for listening, and if you join the show Europe you subscribe and Apple podcast deliberating on common and these two new later in the week for a weekly market update where leaders rather firm provided take on the latest in markets. This podcast was recorded on thirty October fifteenth in the year two thousand twenty
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Transcript generated on 2021-07-01.