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we can be fully kicked around you should know this about me i don't put up with boys and when you kicked back it hurts them more if you're wearing here i'm nicky hayley and i'm running for president hello and welcome to this nicky hayley presidential announcement edition of the five thirty eight politics podcast i'm galen drink nicky hayley is a former state legislator and to term governor from south carolina ambassador to the u n underfund present trump and is now the first major candidate to challenge trump in the twenty twenty four repulsion presidential primary issue

win the nomination she would be the first woman and first asian american to lead the republican ticket that is perhaps a big if which is part of what we're gonna talk about on today's podcast at fifty one she is also one of the youngest people in the pool of power the boat republican contenders and she leaned heavily into that pitch for younger leaders in her announcement on wednesday saying quote a marrow is not passed its prime it's just its politicians are past theirs and she also said we won't when the twenty first century if we keep trusting politicians from the twentieth century she also called for mandatory mental competency to for politicians over seventy five i'm sure you don't need me to tell you that this happens be a significant dig at her rivals in both the presidential primary and potential general election so let's discuss here and there to do

our editor in chief need silver he ate hey everybody also here with us is seeing a writer amelia thompson devout amelia hungarian ok so i am going to get this off my ass in you to imagine a scenario for a second you were to go to sleep right now and you don't wake up until i wake you up in the summer of twenty twenty four to tell you that nicky hayley just one the republican president nomination and that you are doing a live tv head right that the moment i wake you up you dont know any of the context but i say you gotta go you gotta do it and the first question is how did nicky he'll be wary ribbon wrinkles kalen how did nikki hey we win the twenty twenty four republican nomination and make us off on the guinea pig me first so here's what happened it turned out that

the electorate really didn't have a taste for for download from brighter these pole saying that republicans feel ambivalent about him again were true and also become around a half ass campaign right it was a clear if he's running as a publicity stunt really running and so like trip became something of a non factor at some point i am making this up as i go around as soon as he was like what do you think pneumonia see was like a picture wrong fights and ultimately trump endorsed his cabinet member nicky hayley and so she won in a very close raise overdue santas after trump petered out oh wow okay i m amelia go home so a while i was asleep for many months i'm very well resting

nicky hayley one and it happened because donald trump just ran a lackluster campaign he sort of lost his capacity to shock and awe and a whole bunch of white men ran as well so you know i mean we saw make pence getting in we saw upon pale getting an tim sky stayed out even though it seemed like he might jump in and nicky hayley really managed to distinguish herself even from people who seem to like they were started the up incomers like rhonda santas might be being able to take on some of the issues in the republican party in fresh and interesting way talking about how she was antiabortion as a woman or sharing her perspective on critical race theory as a woman who is the child of indian

grants and she really turned out to be a much more dynamic figure than i certainly was imagining and manage to make her way to the nomination through this larger field of people after trump sort of fizzled out all right i'm i'm impressed i'm impressed i think you made it clear that live tv had now a vision a world where i wake you up in the summer of twenty twenty four and you say galen you're full of why did you wake me up and lie to me i know that nicky hey we didn't actually when the nomination there's no live tv hit that i have to do and i no i'm serious i'm serious in you gotta tell me like what i am a student of political history and political statistics and here's all the reasons i am sure that nicky hey we didn't actually when so go away let me go back to sleep i'm not doing this live tv

the case by making here we didn't mean i mean look i well maybe maybe you mean the tiny mackay he's kind of a candidate it round me mould you know it hampshire actual sometimes and you can always tell they have nicer cars they nice your clothes right did mitt romney voters upper middle class to upper class they like mikhail type of candidates bricks brothers right they're not a majority of the republican party far from it and about for them from the start we're more anti trumped anything else figured the only way to stop tampered with santa so hey we got about fifteen percent electra say she guy about half a million

you got seven or eight percent and then she quietly dropped out after the after their early primaries and and endorsed dissenters aright amelia i been but healy just failed to distinguish herself she is someone who on paper seems like she should be a good republican candidate but there is not much that does really distinguish her on a policy level on a personal level obviously this is a history making campaign but i have yet to see what she offers republican voters and i can't see republican voters getting excited about her and i think that if tim scott

into this like she may not even she'll have like pretty stiff competition for south carolina even i i just don't think that she did particularly well in any of the early states i think she probably dropped out fairly soon and yeah who knows who she endorsed maybe the santas i am less worried hayley distinctly heard the commissioner often candid summer for through twenty five she has a pretty good resonate that includes foreign policy experience she i think is like never i think you may never lost an election but she's one although i prefer ones that she's right right she is more explicitly from skype goal in certain ways your comments about moving on from very old candid comments about january six right she's been a little clearer about that right i'm not worried about first any and of women of color we can talk about maybe we should have a

a second are now that plays in the gnp but you can stand out from the past relative to numbers for through fifteen but like she asked to be one and two and that and that part seems hard to me i don't even know about that may because she i mean i guess it depends on who candidates for through fifteen are but she's just is someone who seems like she has kind of checked all the boxes but i just don't know how she finds her footing in today's geo p when yes me the anti trust people are excited about her that's not a huge group of people and she's clearly trying in her announcement video she talks about race right from the beginning she's clearly trying to touch on some of the issues that are big the culture were issues but she's not lake she's not culture warrior you know that's not like a language she speaks and i just don't

see her so handing out really in in any way at sounds harsh but she will stand out in some ways because she's a woman of color and that could work to our advantage in some as and obviously could be a big challenge yeah i'm into just a little bit of data what you're saying amelia i was chatting with our colleagues abc news earlier today and a question of the us he was like who isn't nicky we voter and so i went into the cross tabs and was like do do we have any indication of who nicky hayley vote or is it is not disproportionately women in fact in the pulling i've seen so far likely republican primary voters who women are disproportionately undecided by men supported we slightly more even than women it wasn't for well being we voters of color other hispanic voters did seem to like healy odorant more although the sample size tiny there

the one area i saw where she really did disproportionately well was amongst republicans or republican leaning independence who voted from byron and twenty twenty ok which pay perhaps tells you everything you need to know about her candidacy i don't i don't know like i dont think that at this point in a race we should be in the business of precluding anyone's candidacy in a way and especially one as major as nicky haley's like she is a very accomplished person whom i think many people could have imagined running for president at some point in her career we're not like this is in a situation where we are assessing the likelihood of like mary williams and becoming president or energy and becoming president or something like that so i think we should remain like open minded here but i am really curious if there is a precedent

if there is something about the republican party that poles aren't picking up like how should we talk about her candidacy i mean i don't know there's a lot of precedent for having two candidate to poland as well as the two front runners this early right we cannot abandon our lives it was ahead of about one of those who want to write it was my turn edwards came behind and then and then one galloped i think there were to be by the way those like independent these are worth a little something they're worth more if there isn't a competitive democratic primary don't know about yet then they can more of them although in the republican primary in places like new hampshire that's a good financial here we can be a good new hampshire but like we actually by the way dont know the gnp counter we don't know the gnp will follow all the tricks are democrats made the gnp may still have iowa fairly early which i dont know would help

we particularly but yet there has to be something we didn't know about the gnp electorate give mine we're all or at least i was like an idiot twice team be like yeah there are some very right wing firing don't you repeat boundaries but they do these sensible thing in the end and elect intellect mitt romney the electable conservatives moderate conservatives which was obviously not true anymore maybe something sunk in after after the mid terms i would tend not to psychology repeated in my view a port of nominating electoral candidates in twenty twenty two so there's no we'll sign of a turnaround but who knows you know the gnp has lost three lust for presidential elections faced with the prospect of losing for five maybe never gonna bring into their senses little bit potentially i doubt it i doubt it right but like

no we have to acknowledge something when are you sick uncertainty given the history of you know pandit tree sometimes being wrong name i'm curious when you say bring voters to their senses but you're suggesting i think that nicky hayley is better general election candidates then dissenters or trump actually mean to say that i do actually think that she is a better general election candidates than dissenters our trump i think too this is variable based on the type of private worry that he runs and how easily that he is able to pivot right i kinda thing descents dissenters go too pretty extreme lengths to box out trump already is this an extent and that might make him less elect bull whereas hayley is like drawing a few more bright lines i think wait leave yourself like was damaged energy election but i mean the reason why the sentence is doing that

it's probably the winning strategy right or at least the strategy to be in the top two is too is to imitate enough of up like him on the right side i'm right also expecting to elect ability in something that's that's that's a problem for four healy and he was also in a difficult position where she really needs to kind of engaged with tramp in order to get attention like a lot of people don't a lot of republican voters also don't know who she is which show to defects and is she probably wants to get you know she wants to distinguish yourself from trump like that's the branches trying to set out but if she engages with trump she's a woman of color and trump has a history of acting in a racist and accessed way we all know this maybe he will

differently in this campaign i don't think so he's already said some stuff about nikki hayley like that she's too ambitious which is a pretty gendered insult to throw at her and i just want to pull up some data that i included in the right up that i did with meredith republican it's just generally don't prioritize electing women as much as democrats do talking about republican and democratic voters so according to pew survey from twenty nineteen thirty three percent of republicans and republican meaning independence believe there are too few women in politics compared to seventy nine percent of democrats and democratic leaning independents and then another poll found that actually twenty two percent of republicans think that men generally make better political leaders than women compared to four percent of democrats and this lines up with other research that came out of the two thousand and sixteen election which found that trump's overt sex

some toward hillary clinton actually seem to induce him to some voters they thought that was a plus that made him a more attractive candidate for them so this is a tricky tricky party there highly is running and i'm sure there are some republican voters who are excited about the idea of more diversity in their politicians by a lot of republican primary voters do hold fairly traditional views about and you know they may not see the fact that hayley is a woman as really anything you know they made you see it s kind of a neutral or some of them may see it as a negative yeah i think that's a well articulated point anything and of race engender operate somewhat differently i mean i think sometimes if a part he is viewed sometimes by the public is being you know maybe a bit races

then maybe nominating a can of course there is kind of an answer to that right and now and then the glp has nominated you know some candidates of color but with women it's a little different maybe i i no you know they're probably are some percent gauge of conservatives who still think that being president is a man's job right that's also not forget the like there were a lot of extremely well qualified women democrats who ran in twenty twenty and like almost all of them underperform expectations yeah so you know that i think is interesting data as well yeah i just wanted to say here these elect ability conversations are really complicated because sometimes you had these conversations and you like well you know voters don't see women as an act of all and like that can ricochet for that culture and then people are like okay we're not going to like a woman because she is not gonna be able to win a general like blah blah blah sample size of one hour

sample sizes of one and so even if we say democrats prioritize electing women or people of color while they clearly didn't in two thousand and twenty they nominated joe biden and then we can also look at nikki haley's experience as a pilot in her life when she ran for governor of south carolina she was a relatively one person who ended up creaming the three white man that she ran against in both the you know initial primary and then in the run off she won by like thirty points and that's it south carolina state where the republican primary voters are pretty conservative so one you never know what's going to happen and you we were talking about tractability and a general election there's a force that works differently in republican politics than in democratic politics women by dint of the fact that well just in general biases that

like has and also by dint of the fact that women are more likely to vote for democrats the public views women as more liberal whether or not they actually are based on their own policy programme as an so when a woman runs as a democrat that has the double effect of people saying okay this is a woman who's a democrat we also think women are more liberal so they immediately think oh that's a pretty liberal candidate and as we saw in twenty sixteen people saw hillary clinton as very liberal and probably more liberal than she truly was on policy however when a republican woman runs for office in a general election those two things kind of cancel each other out in that she's viewed as more can because she's a republican but she is viewed as perhaps more liberal or more moderate because she's a woman and so sometimes in general elections it's easier for conservative women to come off as moderate and i

there have been arguments along these lines to say why why right wing parties have been more likely to nominate or uplift women to head of state positions western countries but that's a tricky issue in a republican primary and i should add that also there's a tat voters have a tendency to view canada of color as being more liberal do so hayley with multiple identities has kind of like multiple step sets of stereotypes to contend with and it is totally true that the geo p has been electing more women at the national level twenty twenty was a really good year for especially republican women of color being elected to congress so i certainly think i dont mean this to say that republicans will not vote for women that is not true but i think mickey hayley as a woman of color running for president in a republican primary is going to have to deal with

racial and gender stereotypes that even make this harder for her harder for her to appeal to the republican primary electorate then say someone like marjorie taylor green who is obviously very prominent in the geo p right now we know has had no trouble convincing bull that she's very conservative because she's why and the women of color have to deal with the fact that there are often percy you know sort of win win their as less forceful as politicians often are their perceived as too aggressive because of racial stereotypes and so that is tricky for someone like nicky hayley who would probably have to lean more into the inner who would want to lean and more into the mama grisly type mauled but that can be difficult the women of color and so i think it is certainly possible for female candidates in a republican contest to walk that tightrope

what i think is especially challenging it is that hail is she not someone who is incredibly appealing to the republican primary electorate for other reasons at least like not at this moment mike and so i think if she's activating those stereotypes and she's not offering something else that's gonna be really hard for her i think that's going to be really hard for her what's better than one slice of pizza from racetrack to get you going how about two slices of pizza and when you buy one slice you can get any other for one dollar aoe you can buy one slice of pepperoni for now and get the new bacon cheeseburger pizza for later for just a buck or just get two slices for now buy one get one for one dollar slices get you going oh i like that we should put that on a t shirt or something racetrack whatever gets you going limited time item only at participating locations

in a small closeness community in kansas a group of men started meeting in secret there plotting an attack on a local muslim community one that could have killed hundreds it would have completely shaken the foundation of america if it hadn't been stopped by one man the truth in lies the informant a five part series from a b c audio listen wherever you get your podcast amelia on the topic of what nikki haley is offering what she's pitching to republican primary voters based on her announcement video and this she gave in south carolina on wednesday you know what kind of pitch issue make it

well in her announcement video she started with a pitch that has been pretty bread and butter for her really going back to her campaign for governor of south carolina in two thousand and ten where she taught it's about growing up as the child of indian immigrant in south carolina and how in a world where you know people thought of risks in terms of black and white she was different and she is given versions of this story before but show you know shall move from that moment of saying i was different saying by it i focus on that thing that are good in america and not the things that are bad in america at i focus on america's future not its past and people say that we are a bad country because we have a racist history i dont see things that way that's you know she said something very similar in her twenty twenty are

see speech she is very much is quite adept i think at using her identity to speak with authority in a sort of about rachel politics in a way that could resonate with geo p voters you know sir speaking to this anxiety about feeling like people are saying america's racist and people are critical of america's history and wanting to talk more critically about america's history with ray specifically that is something that she opened way and that is certainly terrain that she is is very familiar with gardner how are you figure rather petrossian anything like a mean again i think that rhetoric will be attractive to the romney american seven republic and i don't think there are enough of them in the party i mean talk about something else like nikki haley is someone who the blame has allowed

career ahead of her as like a pundit i dont mean that like a george way riper as i kind of like you if she is seen as like the reasonable republican cordon quote but more interesting like adam kissinger or something like that you know you get on tv a lot for that i don't mean to sound like totally cynical but if you have start out where you're at three percent in the polls you guys are at thirty eight percent right it's a lot of ground make up and you're in and might not be trying to optimize chance you actually get nominated so long to begin with it might be that you know maximizing future life possibilities i've seen a lot of people saying she's running for vice president with this which is a little weird see me i don't

see mickey highly as the vice presidential pick of either of the two front runners currently but i'm curious what you guys think of that i think you could see her for this i think you could obviously not see it for their own half robert i mean to give adam contacts to this it's not just pundits saying as i saw south carolina republican representative nancy maize on tv the day that nikki haley announced that she was running and of course nicky healy endorsed nancy mace in her primary in twenty twenty two even though trump head back to challenge or against her etc and she was talking about how much you like snickey ale in how support or she is but declined to endorse her and what she said was listen like whether its at the top of the take off as vp or whatever we to have a woman on the ticket in twenty twenty four and i think she was

doing at seeing nicky hayley as that you know potential person so i think it's not just pundits thinking about this i think it also potentially people in the republican party when it comes to like what is she balancing out clearly rhonda santa's lacks foreign policy experience which is a big part of what she's talked about if you sort of listener announcement speech she it's a lot about iran and china and travelling around the world and not backing down when it comes to bullies and all that kind of stuff so there are ngos that you could see there were may i like i take your point about running president is a way to boost your career kind of no matter why but i dont think it's crazy to think that she could be like a descent style picked for vice president especially like you said if he's running to the right trying to box out trump and needs to moderate his image on a general yeah no if he succeeds in vanquishing tramp i don't think he needs necessarily have like an olive branch through meaning trump voters are right and i think it would be like i mean we saw with like

sailor pale and when you kind of nominate a kind of hero the base canada bomb thrower i guess like it didn't actually helped john mccain very much i don't think and soda it would be a very traditional legitimacy europe is only a minute of white men for vice president would you be a traditional kind of vice presidential choice and in that respect right well qualified makes up for some the deficiencies of dissent including like being like so i don't think republicans are news flash problems are not like woke like democrats are right so there's going to be no movement in the gp that says we just for equity reasons have to nominate some women sometimes right but like it does provide some type of search it if your party is accused of being financed and racist you can say well well we actually made indian american women as our vice president so how can we be those terrible words at your calling us right up

i'm not sure it's that persuasive but like but i i think there might be something there yeah the foreign policy argument that is compelling gallon for the santas i just don't see republicans prioritizing identity for a vice presidential pick in the way that democrats might again for for equity reasons or other reasons nate so she's going to have to build her case i don't think that as she is right now

how she would necessarily be a compelling enough candidate for someone to pick us vp yeah i've been having listening to her speech on wednesday i think this progress is coming out on thursday so it would have been just re were recorded on wednesday you did hear her building her argument on things that we do now republican voters care about the argument on race like she very men in many of our speeches at one point shall say very its presently america is not a raisins country to talk plenty about china in competition with china and how she addresses bullies i see her building a bit of that argument on things that we know that republican voters care about even if short of

there's like two aspects to nikki haley that don't make a ton of sense right now in the republican party which is one maybe a sort of more moderating voice less of that oh like i'm a fighter and we're looking at a pessimistic image like she is running in the optimistic lane in large part so maybe that that is a little discordant with the trump style of republican politics and the other thing that's a little discordant is that she actually became popular during the tea party and when she ran as a candidate in two thousand and ten she was talking about basically entitlement reform and in cuts to social security and medical care and the euro maybe not be surprised to hear that donald trump had a response to haley's announcement on wednesday and threatening medical and social security or the second thing in the west of criticisms that he had of nicky hayley showed the kind of more populist style wing the party as well is maybe not where hayley fits well into but

but she hasn't been in congress which ron de santis has gone have a record of votes you took in paul ryan era versus she does not right she was in the south carolina legislature you know that to me it seems like those hits might hit a little bit less than they were with ronnie d so i'm going to i'll list the arguments that trump has made to give you some sense of not are you just as are you just a mouth and thousands of years propaganda and so this is just another silk wist yes yes you just go that's right we close did by donald trump for six years i systematic refer that too so this is the first mean conjure you no major challenger to donald trump so we're gonna learn in some way

how this is gonna play out i got this is really abstract and hypothetical pathetic people actually out for president and kind of do battle with tromp so he was a couple weeks ago saying yes you should get and she should get it and we all know that what he does want strategically is split splintered field because that could help him when with a plurality of the primary role like thirty forty five percent of art but here is a list of criticism in the key areas hillary clinton is an inspiration to nicky hayley he pulls thus from an interview she did within your time saying the reason i actually ran for offices because our hillary clinton next is that she supported paul ryan's plan for entitlement reform threatening medicare and social security next third one instead of five a peaceful solution to the ukraine russia war here we have supported sending more american fighter planes to fuel the war this is so visit some interesting to me it's like passed like why what parties primary as this lake criticising her for supporting cuts to entitlements and criticising her for being

hawkish towards one of american like america's biggest at military adversary i mean it on down the line he talks about immigration and transgender bathroom bills etc etc but those two things are just like we what i mean you know we ve talked about a solution people always get annoyed by air by trump in twenty sixteen did appeal to some voters who described themselves as moderate and the pillar some of their general electorate as moderate in part because of of he was not fighting paul ryan budget cuts type of campaign even now when you got no face is obviously working with the european congress he was not george bush we're policy intervention is so i think it's like on the land with trump things have moved on more and more to to culture where issues well

and it's also on brand with trump that the first thing in that list was comparing her to hillary clinton i mean that is just such you now make an immediate call back to everything that happened in twenty sixteen and all the people who hated hillary clinton and mickey haliae of woman i mean that that's the first thing that jumps out of me i hear you're saying gale and about the sort of feels lake the tables have turned and a lot of ways for the republican party but that is really on brand trump and i think if she did become a threat to him which i don't think he sees her as a threat now we would get a lot more of that trumped up we saw in two thousand and sixteen against hillary clinton the radar he is rooting for her to stay all the way through the whole primary and get like six percent of the vote in every state

exactly as long as she is like polling in single digits and still around i'm sure he's actually like very happy to have her there but if she if she turned into a threat then you know the fact that like immediately comparison to hillary clinton like that tells you something significant about what trump thinks one of haley's biggest weaknesses or one of one of the points where he can hit her most easily alright let's rob up were just some hard knocks maybe i should have mentioned this at the beginning but i will do it before we sign off in the national pulling that i have seen so far nigger healy is getting around three to five percent support and some of these poles are you know like lee republican primary voters and some of them are just a larger universe of potential republican voters we have this conversation alot about in the pact

on monday in south carolina in particular she's pulling closer to like twelve percent but behind both all three trump dissent as and tim scott tim scott was pulling in fourteen percent in the poll of south carolina that i saw new hampshire you now doing a little bit better but still in a single day just like eight percent and university of recent university of new hampshire paul behind to scientists and tromp and we crunch the number is back in twenty nineteen when we are watching the democratic primary play out to try to understand how predictive primary poles are at this point you know the first half of the year before the actual primary and it turns out there pretty predictive would why point you hear winning the nomination be basically unprecedented what's sitting a subset of automaton jimmy carter was very low i mean that one point donald it was very low the bulls in twenty sixteen rights

it'd be i think that like twenty five but when those can't each when it's because it's because you have a very weak tap the field and i just don't think that a field with the former president and then a guy who has managed to tie the former president basically in poles and was kind of as i lamented minded in dissent santas like i don't think there's like a lot of opening they're right so what is your kind of to figure out in the opening exercises like there's inherently some self destructive potential with anyone central can't there certainly is with trump and there could just be that he's passed his sell by date when trying to of is like let's say that one of the two that gets knocked out and not by can she win then right if they both looked to the building then i think it just the two of them right but like if if one then fizzles out then

we have a shot if dissenters wert running could should be trump i mean i i don't i don't know i don't think so but that seems easier than trying to be both of them yeah no it's a good point final question this kind of marks the beginning of our twenty two thousand and four presidential primary coverage of course trump was already in the race but now it's competitive what are some questions that you're just carrying it's about other than who wins would that you're gonna be tracking as we spend the next year before anyone actually votes just in terms of timing it'll be interesting to see when other people start yet again i mean hayley clearly saw an advantage in putting her hat and the ring relatively early and having some attention on her before other people start thing in so i dont know how much all of that those timing questions matter but it will be interesting to see if the hayley prompt and

when asked to get it sooner or if we're going to have another lag before other folks start jumping in you might as well have that first mover advantage right i really don't know were thrust them are thinking potentially apart from its fun you go to the country it give speeches and and and you saw books that way yeah there there are a couple things your guy you get to build the infrastructure for future presidential run like this isn't always the case but you will see candidates sort of build up to the actual win of course biden is a prime example you know romney was an example mccain was an example of candidates union you run once or twice you fit how to do it you got a bunch of emails or mailing addresses if we're talking about you know mccain or whatever and then you win event so if tim scott wants to be president in i don't have a year's twelve years whatever it's still good for him to probably run for president

and you'll be able to tell maybe what people's intentions are i'd really how much they get into the mud pet with tromp would be my gas it is a long term trend towards the gnp getting somewhat more support for like nine white voters right firstly hispanics to some the creation americans and a little bit but less so more black men than black women and saw yeah you know if you're making a play along and play that at republics rid themselves of this fever this trumpian and populist fever that now made trumpeting but if they it was the next election i don't think it becomes crazy think that they will start to have some serious misgivings is that am migration i mean i like to last forever right things like there is mean erosion over long time horizons if the judge

if eighty two year old joe biden you know gets reelected after the gps is very disappointing mid term they had a bad mid term and twenty eighteen you know minutes a lot elections and erode lose am nurture says that when they are faced with constant losses parties do monterrey emily haley's some opposition for four run in four years eight years or twelve years that's not it's not crazy sure yeah that's a good point so we will wait and see what kind of pitches these candidates make and how

you know how long they stay in and what their intentions seem to be and we will of course follow more announcements as they come but we're going to leave it there for today so thank you amelia a thank you caitlin and scaling my name is galen droop tony child is in the control room chadwick matlin is our editorial director and audrey monster is helping on audio editing you can get in touch by emailing us at podcast at five thirty eight dot com you can also of course tweet us with any questions or comments if you're a fan of the show leave us a break we are reviewed in the apple podcast store or tell someone about us thanks for listening and we will see you soon the in two thousand and sixteen in the midst of a combative presidential election a dangerous militia group was forming in a small city in kansas and they had a dangerous of mission

replying in attack one that could have killed hundreds if it hadn't been stuff i'm declare the journalist who dug deep to figure out how this attack was thwarted and it led me to one man dan deck truly believe that god put me there at the right time he became an informant for the fbi and risked everything to do what he thought was right ask yourself would you be willing to do what he did drifting lies the informed if i part series from pvc listened where'd you get your projects