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I have great politics. Part guest mining is Jody African and happy new year. Should we do that thing? Real pretend were actually recording this. I'm the ears daily and ARM Russia had three men. I tell you that a year in our actual you so drunk Methley in leave of Peru and that future time allowed to resume this man. The Peruvians really do need is the right way. Now, at a sweater I mean alpaca, discuss our resources She's amazing, I'm Peru. You know, he climbed much a peach. You pretty cool right, dear nigh Heronry, now, Sir oh, my god, this guy, so luck listeners. When it let you in on a little secret. This not being recorded on New year's day, despite an hates, extremely convincing argument with yellow and Peru the prerecorded episode. We are doing this a few days before Christmas, so policies, if anything that's coming up, is already dated, and I

tell you what we're going to do in a second right after I introduce her usual crew gathered at the table for the last when twenty seventeen, It's over editor in chief limit, hello, jury, Clare, Malone, politics, reporter hello and Whisky Harrington the bills have made the play our heads that their future you had its future. There may probably not what I hope will see how they come home, bearings, eternal, look, here's the just for today, listen as we are all around the table. Obviously politics, junkies and we are also political reporters and, as you know, if you listen to this podcast enough, we're also how shall I put it astute media critics so I thought today we could do a little something about the role of political journalism and five thirty eight and something maybe a little self reflective were gone. To offer a few of our two thousand eight teen political journalism, resolutions things. We want you better next year, things we just want to keep in mind. Maybe things that you, the listener, can can hope a cannibal on so before

jump into a reach, gonna go around and talk. Not somehow, resolutions made can you wanna you wanna, jumping on just in terms of why we we like to do this just setting us up for a fall when we inevitably break these resolutions yeah? Well, I was your idea how we heard of you: do not let the year we like to criticise and we are criticised often- and so it's good to kind of talk through this process rain, about a kind of what you what you really learn because to me like a lot of time, the question is: did you screw something up journal equally the questions. What would you do differently next time? If answers nothing, then that's really good answer, because it means that, like a you know, an improbable thing, how or whatever else rider. We do the best we could sum, as it means your credibly stubborn and used to acknowledge problems. You know. Sometimes people do that to you and I think, if I can just that one of the hallmarks that I appreciate about five. Thirty, eight about you guys. Are there always sort of actively talking about sort of?

things a little better next time and always turn it improve. So we'll talk about that today. I also for its where they reached out to a few of our fellow politics, podcast friend, got some resolutions from them. Someone a pepper this conversation with some stuff from other folks who reached out to me but clarity you wanna, do you want to start here? You want to offer e two thousand eighteen. Sure I kind of misunderstood the prompt and flag up lodging an already know. So on the fly. I'm sort of make Although the channel tunnel number, but ya got, but I think I just in general. I think one of my resolution It will be tuna out, all ISIS vice be summer in high school and I was not a breast rocker, but it was his think. There's this thing and bread

where if you turn your head and look in the other lane, it slows your time down a lot right in a really distracts you, and I can feel that way, about a lot of tv talk, tv politics talk, and I think one of my resolutions this year, is that I would really like to tune out all the people who don't do original reporting or who aren't like throwing two original reporting and a lot of that comes on tv, because I just think a lot of times especially in the last year we get weighed down by the bullshit and some of the stuff, it like a kind of want to see, proof and I'm never given the proof it should sort of like circulating opinions and its distracting and kind. Clothes you down and I think, from a story sense and from finding out from deciding what you note follow your nose kind of thing. It really can distract from like where the true

stories lie, especially when there is so much palace intrigue going on. In the end, the top level can distract you from other things that are going on. So I would say that my resolution is blinders on. There is some value to at least being aware of what, like the conventional wisdom is right. Even if your plan is the sort of cutting is there a way I get that from a lot of places stolen in twenty eight August for anyone, Whew, where you don't you in other. I think there are some story that you just need to have the discipline to turn out, and I think you can be aware of conventional wisdom without Qana getting bogged down in the telecom, yeah, I saw I want to say a few things just to respond. Claire's point very quickly. I mean I'm always watching the emerald be network or or maybe the twenty five days leading up to Christmas, some free form, because

television, political television for me is to inform people who political you know. Interest is not the first thing at the top of their dying for us. It generally is- and I know what climate I'm all our regional and I a regional by the way they rose in all my regional thing in the when we refer to the best, be plenty that I misunderstood. It is like something the media in general should be doing manner and my kind of It was a lot of people who are say, swing, voters or aunt, or you know they ve got other things going on their lives there less tuned into politics, often where they found. Out about the political stories of the day is through television, and I think too often its through politics talk shows whatever Ben to desert straight down the line. If you'd give sank CNN something like that, and I was saying in a tv, boarding. Should be doing a lot more original reporting cause, I am think they have such a huge reach. I mean In short, we certainly have a reach two different reach, but it's a different reach. Tv has a huge reach and I just feel like the american viewing public trust

deserves a lot more reported television stories, radios really good at it. Why can't tv be more promote those good reporters that they have put in a put Martha stories I guess what I would add that took declares point. Is I just general I agree. I think that there is obviously room for television coverage to be improved and also just for journalists. General to improve their daily and of what news is important and what news is an important, and I think you know you have to read from a wide array of sources. So obviously we each have our own fundamental beats. A mine tends to be more elections, oriented and perhaps other ones, but that mean that I should limit my sources in terms of just looking at the same website. You know one of the things that I try and perhaps more so this year than in steers. As you know, reading a website like a red Ray

horses, elections every day or reading daily cuss elections, everyday one of those sites is on the right. One of those sites is on the left, but they get into races that perhaps I'm not looking at us a top line and it helps me concentrate and recognised saying so you know it could be the fact that there was appalling comes out from a Mississippi governors race in two thousand nineteen that I might not get and they go away the minute you know this could be competitive and just finding these different sources. That's really crucial point, because its I was about the depth and breadth of your reading and if you just reading twitter than your, what I feel like I should watch more tv yeah, because I You know ninety nine percent. My part, this coverages on a lot of it through Twitter. I never watched the had shows unless someone else's a channel on you know I don't listen to much Ellison upon casts, I guess but, like you know, the kind of.

Velocity, which things move on Twitter, if your kind of bookmark for everything you kind of line and everything is you know you basically have like your pumpkin crack into your veins in know kind of twenty four seven and that can like lead. Dad. I think perspective it'll, be too sure. Term, and I think it's like too easy to do Oh well, you know aliens I knew that five minutes ago. So I'm really not amazement story anymore. I guess they, like literally we're good I mean aliens are rattles, gives cape but cable tv sort of has picked up on that velocity. I mean the spinal cable tv does have that sort of frenetic energy, twitter often does as well. Maybe I should definitely rights charters. I can watch it right, be assets like it's like You see, like everything, breaking news everything them into like induce anxiety and voters. I think that anxiety term played off early well right, where there is always some crazy thing happening and by the way our connect tell these kind of kind of Troy

events around the world where now there's a terrorist, Ike anywhere or an accident, or a mist report right now happens like two or three times a month, probably right, So but it's not the resolution I wrote down, but like probably spending less time on twitter. More time that a blanket will now about like more time watching how things come across on on doing. Let me look As you know, we ve had so much of this talk about cable news that the FAO The matter is that you know the nightly. Newscasts are still get hung viewers, I mean the average for the week of December. Haven't. I have it right in front of me. Abc was nine Point three million NBC was eight point, eight eight million CBS as the third place was six point: seven million. That is it

Oh yeah, you were, I mean I've, it I've, a close relative whose news consuming habits, I think, are very traditional right where they read the newspaper in the morning do they are difficult job all day. That has nothing to do with politics and then either the the radio newscast at night or watch the nightly news- and I think that's it- the Latin Americans enlightened the Americans, who may be our an older generation who that's an who vote or but that's for that's there, that's their news, consumption of it, older. So how do we square then? You know this desired. I like be alone. The blinders on this sort of two. That's over the noise with the fact that, cable news- and I mean, I think Fox NEWS in many ways- is like an incredibly important for in our modern day, politics- and we kind of as political John, was also need to be up

speed on the forces in our political lives. May I dare off for the idea that we have to make an effort in order to separate the noise from the signal would you like a sat doo doo, Doo, Doo, Doo, doo doo still available on Amazon, be Croupier, maybe like how are they cut rate available right now to outline our record in this before, but I always wanted to do the audio, but for that they make no noise obeying eight zero voters. Are you you're making a point I will? But let me just say I would I would love to make happened. Second edition audio book area that re reading the signal and the noise. What is that let's. Do it say the name this. And the noise I'm gonna go this, no and the noise by mate silver, perfect soul. Now then,

Bout, it Harry you are making a real point. I was a point that I was making is that we can be informed about what's on television without being consumed by it and not allowing our own views on average to be consumed by that is you know knowing what people are hearing and then helping them tease out, what's actually important? What's not, there was something that happened on cable television, whose importance was probably important. Yesterday yesterday and twenty seventeen time, so that Michael tweeted it out Mica has it like our editor mega hesitate. In his office. I read his tweet. You know like seven hours later, when Twitter suggested I do so and I had no idea what he was referencing and it didn't feel important and that's not I'm not cops up my I'm not trying to call you out, I'm just trying to point out, happens. All the time on Twitter is the example its most at the top of my head words like, but then times I'll be like. Why should search and find out what that is, but maybe I shouldn't sometimes legs anyway

I'm still gonna know. What's going on in the news, both growl smart people. I think you can know what's going on the broader culture while being more tune in to your job neat. One said it's your job to read Twitter, which it is, but it is sad to say, but it also, I would say my job more so to like. Yes, three twitter, but all Work on, as Harry pointed out, those two good examples of like reading random pulling sites that no one else does my visit classic journalism. Things like you should be. I think I should reading more regional resources while they still exist before we get to you, the resolution area. I want to read one that came in from us got that true host of NPR politics broadcast. He said this resolution for twenty Atinas make it through an entire mid term cycle without using the word optics in a story. I don't act.

I do actually find the word optics that much I may be the only political journalists, but objects is afore. I sit matters. I mean we're talking to my cable news again until I talk Tik Tok, as well as by think Tik. Tok should be banned, even though I like reading things that are called Tik Tok generally, like don't use tiktok you just don't like tax stories, or you don't like the phrase Tiktok, I want you stores often but like avoiding jargon, things that like make. You sound like it just if it's a good break up again, we gotta Tik Tok beguiled angry. I took your native claim that out ten, for, let us know far Tik Tok Optics Deep dive, ok Harry I'd never use those were my lady at my me ever written a tiktok, I've, never written a tick tock. I mean what the tick tock of my

two Popeye's anyway. What what's going on here? Ok Harry! What's your resolution for twenty eight is so I guess my resolution for twenty eighteen is similar, wonder twenty seventeen, but it's just you know something I was. Keep in mind is that in this day and age, in which it seems that changing your mind has become as seen as despite some folks and naming those necessarily. I believe that Changing your mind, based upon the evidence or new evidence, that's presented before you is actually a strength, and that would include for example, for me, when elections is sometimes you get things that are unexpected based upon events that occur in the past. Gotta changes and that you need to be willing to. To change your mind based off that new data, even if it make sure prior I also look silly because the idea, when we are journalists, we are trying to present the truth to readers as it is in the real world, not as the world that we wish it where the world that we thought it was going to be, and I just think that some

we need to keep in mind going forward, but we ve said this table a fair amount and talked about cautioned listeners to not overreact, two new data, well Rachel, how do you square those two? How do you kind of know when to start changing your Europe? Really, why? I think it's when, obviously you dont want to jump at an outlier? I think that's very important something we have obviously stressed over and over and over again, but at the same time it get a slew of new evidence that points in a different direction than what you thought was previously the truth, then that is a time to reflect upon on that previously held truth and wonder out loud whether or not it's I'm to change your mind? I mean with pulling it's kind of more or less and empirically correct answer for how much in a changed my opinion, based on new data and peep, Aaron either direction there. Actually, I haven't noticed in the camp

last year, where peace, under waited fairly clear evidence of shifts in the past. Yes, especially when the ship were toward Trump, because most people kind of the polling community, didn't you know aid. When from fans personally and be behind an investor. This idea that finally, was a head right and so and so not being stubborn. You know we are obvious. If you listen to the podcast array, the site abolish now on democratic chancellor, taking over the house lesser this actually, but the house. Certainly. I think we have been for a long time on the marble aside, that may not be true by the time we get to August September when we know right and it could be true in several different ways can be that we stay the same an and want us over shoots. It could be that the Evans change is the most important indirect way was Harry was saying by the way like there's nothing wrong changing your mind because you at some point take a deeper

nation of a problem. We have tried to build like a comprehensive house model, yet quicken dirty things to give us some general idea. Its power but when we do, that will say actually actually this incumbency advantage and let you gonna have led him Cresscombe close and not do it or might say actually gosh for some hidden advantages here for Democrats in my kind of which seats are in play, and so we know that could move our impressions either way I, like your resolution, has given by Harry. Did I think, as a couple days ago, you treated and said you know things. Look there. Three very, very bad, for Republicans in twenty eighteen, though the owl how? Then tonight's point do kind of still take a stand at this moment based on the evidence we have now, but you were about you know someone pulling that tweet up six months, answer that, for you, people are real

on new, wants thinkers, twitter and I would say, for the listening tweeting audience. Read stories, don't talk, of your s ass when you're on twitter, and also, I think, can we can all assume that people are generally reasonable and if someone pulls up a tweet from six months ago of Harry's, very much, I'm sure he will very well be able to point to during of thirty articles in the in the interim time that sort of talk about how he is any shifted over that time. There's not a politician, not flip flopping Harry's of writing about human phenomena, the changes and happens over time. So I will to make a plea to r amp d, listeners on twitter to think, but but or any part of you that should head joy

because, while the things change or did you like hesitate about why links three varies or for very right, I don't think I you know was three versus for This is too, I dont know if you know, there's some mathematical model behind their statistical model. Behind that. I think, though, you know have to be honest with the audiences wow and sometimes because of what happened with We saw in two thousand sixteen over in the french elections that were people who are arguing that I got you know the far right wing candidate, Marie Le Pen, oh shit, you know have to watch out. She could win, and you know Mccrone like a twenty five point, leaving the poles and was like it in this area. The other versions where, with the Virginia election, the commission with them was Miss calibrated where, like people realize correctly, that northern was not a sure thing like. Therefore, that me

I've been a stupid morning, Joel pay boy. I wasn't bad. Therefore, that means that you say you want to levy is gonna. Look. You really will be pretty well if you are careful about Billy models, then of yours, thirty bats than they're gonna be wrong. Cordon co, authored the time and right searching the time, they weren't wrong thirteen the time and they be like Profoundly wrong actually means your estimate was Miss calibrated. I dunno in some ways its frankly and be it's easier get there must cross post tromp right. You say that thirty percent that we actually happens Oh happens three at a ten times, it's kind of a lot dot com. You know These are to communicate now the people can go overboard and think that owed I can do so whenever I want right, I think that's correct and I think it actually helped out tremendously in the ALA Bam Senate Ray eyewear, whereby the poles were very close in some of the higher quality posed in fact show of that Dog Jones was more likely to win the, not you know being

a point. I hate those Pauling averages, although it shows more ahead. It's not by that much therefore Jones has a pretty shot of winning. Remember two thousand sixteen. On your resolution to kind of be more willing to change your mind and look at the data and sort of follow it. Does mid term elections where it's like Parrot exactly there's more obviously, there's a lot of a lot more races, but also less good data correcting from on their behalf. Pulling. Maybe is great and lifeless as I have or pitfalls for Harry End and his hotel absence resolution awhile, I will say. Obviously you know we're going to be looking at how races, first time you know individually, since twenty ten really this is you know the first time that the house is truly, for grabs, and you know we know that house polling on the individual. District level is less is among the least accurate, pulling that there is in general elections so yeah we're gonna have to be cut. Full, and that's probably you know

Why will mean a sea, wider confidence intervals? You know, if Nay can recall it's better than I can, because I was still in college at the time, but when they put out is too I was in ten house forecast. There were very long else to that that is the with a lot of uncertainty, the mean you know the register met was actually fairly close to the final outcome, but Nate with anxious like fifty five, and I want to be sixty three people like on my gosh so far off ITALY. Actually that's very well. Actually measure time? Interesting? Ok, we're gonna move on I'm ready. It needs resolution, and I will also read a couple more than have come in for my pals in political pod casting, but first a quick word from this week's sponsor this week's pod. Is brought to you by daily Harvest new resolutions are great in theory, but does anyone actually stick with them? The problem is that it's really hard to break bad habits. So, instead of give something up said dessert. Why not the positive commitment to eating more fruits and vegetables with daily

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If we listen to her excellent interview on the long form pod gas, you can tell- which you know that she spent a lot of time trying to get just like to tell her how he really felt about something and it didn't really work out. But that's a good m. That's a good end, and then one more Camille Foster at the fifth column which the programmes have been really into lately. He says his first objective meetings to be more sceptical of my first impulses when evaluating a story or media narrative and then it has more than that. However, I probably haven't made sufficient good use of the phrase, I'm not sure, which is a very. I think, good thing to keep remain forever. To be willing to admit that you're, not sure being Sure is perfectly fine alive. One very quick thing: I think it's almost like You know some of the media, just or even in some listeners readers want things to be a hundred percent or fifty percent. Without realising that often times the truth is somewhere between those right where we one event is more likely than the other by we're not

in that event will occur, and I think that something we have to be able Arap our heads around this forty eight things between fifty and two hundred. That's a lot of things I want to take you. Can Thank you. So he and now Nate, your poet journalism resolution for twenty eighteen live from Lena Peru it's over, I resolved to stay, last time chasing down shiny objects. I think, if you go, I can, I can think, of burdensome and avoiding this banana. Always if you go back can look like the outrage of the story of the day with respect to Trump doesn't always have a very long shelf life, fur or after life necessary, even things our thought of his very serious. At the time, don't necessarily hole that well, the course of this one of the three or four most important things that took place in twenty seventeen

examine, but certainly anything involving trumps demeanor Ino speeches that he gives things at a trolls media organisations where things that he says- and I think there are often certain things he says on Twitter but, like I don't know right like what's the important stories for twenty seventeen. Twenty eighteen probably. Will there be further major changes to the tax system? care system on the welfare state. That's important! Are we going to get in or will it be a war involving Korea that's important they, Russia, investigation, being handled that's important and how, the public feeling about all of this obvious, it's kind of our bread and butter, but as expressed by various indications are published. And then, in the mid term, elections themselves. Outside of those four categories, I'm scared, All that they manner all that much I wonder if new cycles, where,

at least in terms of like stories from White House, in the Trump beat in politics, beat that Mariner local stores at manner a lot I can ever. Like night in one sport. Or is it? I wonder how important a really is. Trouble with this? I think we all struggle with this a lot to answer for what you guys think but, like you know, to me the place where I hurry about really dismissing what feels like a shiny object is that all at times they are potentially indicators of the courts that what's the turn of phrase the Us MAC? The key when, like a small part, represents a whole so like, even if some feels like a small outrage of the moment. If it is reflective of say, trumps temperament, which then an impact on dealing with North Korea or efforts, or if its reflective of a sort of deeper policy direction democratically. I gotta aching heart How do you draw their lives connected recent Schenectady inactivity and lieutenant

many New York you dont have to normality is a small thing that represents a big my inequity When you have the Albany, I sit on value. You don't have to for a little outrageous, because there are big, arrange, has rightly highlights agency little like we and unlike the little age of is like Trump spreading the bird seed wrong. When he's on the trip in Japan Yes, and also by the way I do know, is that, like obviously, This coverage is always partisan. I have noticed like some of the car. Like a little bit. More obviously, partisan them no, some! The coverage of the tax bill on the left exaggerated both the process and the substance of how our of the ordinary. This tax bill was for republic in exist to basically cut taxes, especially for I ain't. Earners. You know I mean that seem to me like as we're getting into like an in time. You know ye

think, monitoring that a little more immediately. I think this is this. Is it that's where we're talking about journalism right and what we want to do better in political journalism or political analysis and in other cases I think you really sit down and say, what's my goals, journalist where the goals of my stories, because you mean that samples you gave for far and wide righto Korea and you know whatever the little pieces of folding investigations are and there's a lot of different stories to cover in America right now. So I'm a news, I'm trees, sports metaphor and every single one of my points to see knowing your plank defence and if your plane, good defence in basketball or fields, ports, whatever don't, keep and and their head, keep an eye on this on their torso, the middle of their body. Right, like you, keep an I on that static force and you dont, get thrown off by head, x or stick fakes

It is, and I think that for journalists for us you know Harry for twenty team will probably be really laser focus. On twenty eight teen races- and you know a few hours, you are setting a goal. It would be to come nor the noise outside of that, and when we have our little chat and stuff. So of course we have to keep a prize I do think that there is a lot of like chicken with the head cut off journalism going on out there and I think it's not just less fall through young journalists fall to think like all of us assigning editors, writers, there's so much noise coming Hugh signal. A noise sound that it's really alive, if so much noise that that it's really hard to keep sight of what you're phenomena goals are doing your journalism, making your particular kind of what clarity and I like what are you see as your core goal for you

journalism in June, but also in twenty eighty stand to make our politics proudly. You know to understand how a man because reacting to tramp is kind of the overarching goal and obviously or have a big test of that next November, Other particular examples go back to your sort of resolution of moments. E fella, you ve gotten caught up in the shiny object in and have you noticed the pattern of what it is that leads you, this sort of go down the slippery slope. I mean I went back and looked at her coverage and I think it would be different good job for the most part in kind of were fairly will calibrated. Often you know, I do think on the if you go back for me, average of the health care bill it feels like we move a little bit too far back and forthright with the sit down the healthcare bill right where you are, we didn't have a model should have had a model. A model would have been steadier right. I feel like if you kind of asked our opinion

what's a probability and drawn a charter that that she would have moved. Like, maybe more than it should you know maybe the kind of cortical fundamentals of healthcare more changing all that much necessarily that's the thing is outside we like fundamentals of of war, of healthcare, reform, passing warrant, changing that much though you're saying yeah. Really I we did a chat like kind of ETA bad moment for health care. But now will health care not pass, which it s was correct did believe. Andy, but also things are going badly. I don't see how they can pass tax reform either was our sentiments I mean, as in June or after some setback, important sit back and health care. You know that was maybe a little bit short sighted. I wouldn't you know, you're talking about jumping back and forth and creating model. Listen. You know, I think, for a lot of us who have been covering politics for x number of years from a statistical point of view.

The idea of trying to judge what the chances were of a health care bill getting past with different than what we were used to covering we under you know we can look at polling and we can understand how the electorate feels and that's a strength, understanding how congressional bodies feel legislative bodies. Fear, I think, is something that sir they can be worked upon, and I think just from a general statistical journalism point view is trying to figure out? How much can we add to the legislative debate where our weaknesses, where our strengths with that and I'm not sure that we necessarily adequately address those in two thousand seventeen- and I think that was part of the problem when it came to healthcare bill was for some of us. It was the ground that we hadn't really covered. Even it happened, by others verses. If you look at the coverage that we have, elections, you know especially no Alabama towards towards the end,

of two thousand six. Seventeen excuse me, I'm jumping back two years. It was fairly well covered because I think we re find a footing within the numbers and understand how electorates work and we were used to doing. While we weren't used to necessarily covering the Senate figure out, what's the chance that they'll actually met for healthcare, Can you jump imitate singer now, Maria one more good? I What's yours Jody to continue to hostess as Parkinson's much time with you wonder why what perhaps ass well ass a loose. It can be resolved more balanced like us, more emergency biogas. Actually, you and I may disagree on the resolution. I am front. I you wanna talk about slowing down. I feel like doing fewer emergency package is a perfect way to just more participation. Get anything get the emergency just do more. Ok, I resolved. By regularly I resolved to use those products that were advertised. Like us, unresolved, ivory

use those lots my resolutions and never ever bring back the elections theme, no matter how many, tweet I get in a matter how much we go back into election mode in the second half of twenty eighty, just despite all our listeners people, I have no idea whether things homes they come, let freely I resolved to say I was not going to work but like a resolve, it you know he knows, yeah yeah seriously, David plots from the sleep local got past has arisen, for us that he is allowed, and he says the same when he makes every year now ever? Listen to any speech comment aside or phone name uttered by a politician. I am happy to read. But whatever they said later by, I don't wanna, hear them say it Well, maybe part of the issue with the with the whole healthcare thing is like we were naively taking what politicians said, its values. Politics know me wait a minute and yes means no and politicians somethin undecided easier when they open with, I think now, but

obviously taking statements from represented Sanders at face value. About kind of you know a lot of it The negotiating pasture I mean no that we knew that on some level. Ok, that's the end of the show, thanks to all of our friends in politics, pot casting for charming and with some your resolutions, and as I mentioned, this was prerecorded, but if there is any big news this week, we will knock out on emergency podcast. Otherwise, the next thing you can hear in this field is the next episode of Galen Jukes Gerrymandering Series, which you will get on. Third, and then we will be back next Monday, the eighth, with a proper new episode, but thanks to our usual crew, nature Thank you thanks. Malone, thanks to you think, said: Anne her aunt and thank you. Thank you. For we go since it is a new year. I want to give a big shouted to everyone who helped in putting this podcast together over the last year.

Of course, as a producer, Galen Droop and Tony chow in the control room, like a Cohen politics, editor Chad when helps oversee part. Guess at five. Thirty, eight Ryan and tell us a producer here and all around very helpful for this plan cast our interns. This year, Alice Wilder and Kate blocked Europa Caitlin who does art and design and is a good friend of the show shadow poppy editors are sales team are friends at a b, C, Paul and Stephanie, and the other folks who work on our website. It takes a lot of hard work and to make this thing every week. So we just want to thank everyone who had a part So we want to thank you, the listeners for listening. Sitting in and leaving reviews, and all that good stuff, also God and our mother Leah reference bears a very little your kids to go to sleep. Ass, they like going to sleep, the merry Christmas and a happy holidays even to the haters and aloof note, the Enron Reluctant They tend to be very interesting year. I can't wait to talk about it with all of you stages.

And we'll see you soon