« Freakonomics Radio

211. The Economics of Sleep, Part 1 (Rebroadcast)

2016-03-24 | 🔗
Could a lack of sleep help explain why some people get much sicker than others?
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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If you'd like to listen to free economic radio without ads the place to do that is sticker premium five dollars a month and you can get free month trial by going to stick your premium dot com and use a promo code freak. You also get access to all our bonus. Episodes and you'll be supporting our show to that sticker premium: dot, com, promo code, freak thanks it back s, listeners Stephen donor. This week we are bringing you an episode from our archives. It's called the economics of sleep part one. Yes, it means that there is a part to which you will your next week. We thought it was time to replace these episodes because they are two of our most popular episodes, now. Why is that? I think it may be, because as much as people tend to focus on nutrition and exercise as the vital inputs in Maine
meaning the human machine sleep often gets overlooked? So, let's stop overlooking yeah hope you enjoy it, and I hope you learn as much about sleep as we did in making this episode Let can we begin Brownsville Brooklyn at the Brownsville Multi Service, family health centre, Grassy Ella flats she goes by grace is a nurse and the clinics director of nursing. She was born in Panama, moved to New York
twenty years ago, something that was to everybody. I born to be a nurse. I love nothing tat. I love my patient, the matter how much you love your job. Brownsville is not necessarily the first neighbourhood, but most people would choose to work a lot of crime lot of unemployment and not much money. We always of prize to see the income that some people make here approximately between sixty sixty five percent of patients they are under the porter level. Comedian household income in Brownsville is barely twenty seven thousand dollars, but three quarters, residents, are african american grace flats is also of african descent. She says that roughly ninety percent of the patients in her health clinic are therefore chronic diseases? Poor off I was services, hypertensive, diabetes and obesity, hypertension, diabetes and obesity heart disease to on the face of it,
nothing noteworthy about this predominance of chronic diseases. According to the sea. See the centres for Disease Control and prevention. Eighty six percent of U S. Healthcare spending goes to treat chronic diseases, but what is noteworthy? is that these conditions are much more concentrated among certain groups of people talking about a twofold gap: LISA to pull gap up the major colors, which would of course include heart, disease and and and diabetes, Text Sherman James. He is a professor of epidemiology at Emory University in almost every category, of health and Disease African Americans, like behind whites, which is a very disturbing fact. For decades James. Has been studying the black wage gap in health African Americans, he says, have substantially higher risk of death from heart disease and stroke. Blacks are
which is three times more likely than whites, to have high blood pressure and high blood pressure develops. you're an adult life or have Americans compared whites, this more severe, so The number one contributor in terms of the persistent ratio The qualities and heart disease is high blood pressure. This racial health disparity has been known to researchers for decades. What isn't known is why that's worthy an important fact. What accounts for that there are, sorts of hypotheses one that Sherman James has put forward is called John Henry ISM at from the Legend about John Henry, the steel door. living man old school. strong man who got into a race with a new thing. steam Hammer John We won, but any collapsed and died John one. Might the idea behind John and reason? Is it blacks? Because
of discrimination and lack of opportunities have had to work so much harder than whites even In the same kind of jobs, I can confirm a jack I can live trap. I can, denim shovel too I am a black in all that hard work. Sherman James says, puts more stress on the body. The credit school system. the immune system, the endocrine system, the reproductive system but even James was run. Study after study, who is an expert on african american Health, admits that none of this is conclusive. Despite efforts to uncover any elucidate the reasons for this persistent gap attitude on a limited and sites in James's defence. It's really hard to definitively determine cause and effect when it comes to how
outcomes. That's because we as a society don't run big random control trials on people's health to prove what does what? As a result, we know a lot less than we think we now look at how much flip flopping there's been increased. here- is about something as basic as the nutritional value of carbohydrates versus fats when it comes to something as expensive as very gated as a health gap between black Americans white Americans, there are a lot of possible explanations. Does it have to? do with diet were smoking or other behaviors. What about relative wealth or access to medical care? Maybe there's a genetic explanation? Has lots of we as field just don't know? Well, there is another theory the one will be talking about today. That says the black White health gap might be related, something that all of us do every day, something that our body forces us to do every day or more typically, every night, one air
that's been overlooked is sleep. Lauren Hale is an associate professor preventive medicine at stony, brick university. That's on long island in New York I study, sleet patterns. I caught the social pattering of sleep. That's when people sleep long they sleep, how well they sleep? A lack of sleep has been linked you a variety of health problems, including diabetes, hypertension, cardiovascular disease at there's, associations with cancer and, as we all know, a lack of sleep can impair our cognitive functions. Our decision making When Lauren Hale thinks about the huge racial gap in health that Sherman James described. She wonders if sleep just might be a missing link. Is it true, either racial minorities low edge,
hey did low job security, individuals, people who live in high risk neighborhoods, who experienced fear at night are these people or who clearly have some sort of social disadvantage, or they also not sleeping as well, and is this impaired sleep affecting, not only their ability to function that next day, but there are longer term health outcomes. That is just one of the questions about sleep. We will try to answer today, but because sleep is such a big and interesting topic and let's face it, is also a kind of weird effect. There are bodies shut down entirely for roughly a third of our lives. Because of all that we are actually making two episodes about sleep. You will hear the second one next week and this being friggin comics. We ask what the data have to say about sleep, as you will hear. Even that is not always
figure out. We found that people with more education got more sleep and people with higher incomes got more sleep. The answer is very, very clear: those who earn more money per hour, those who have more education, they sleep less I'm happy from W and Y see studios. This is for economic, radio, the explores the hidden side of every thing. Here's your host Stephen Dogma! I know about you, but I personally love to sleep. I look forward to it. I like how I feel, after a good night's sleep and therefore I take my sleep pretty seriously
you're talking to someone who does sleep with, and I am asking your plugs just as we know, and that's because of my schedule for a bunch of years, and I was travelling lot and different time zones. Whatever I needed to sleep, sometimes on planes answer whatever name in a hotel room and I get somewhere and be daytime, and so I started using go to sleep aids and I just got used to them, and then they became pavlovian for me. So like now, the minute I put in the plugs in the face mask wherever I am. I just go to sleep so I'll. even at home, is just like a habit which is kind of weird and annoying, sometimes to my wife looking here with Lauren Hail the sleep researcher we heard from earlier and asking about her sleep preferences know what about back. Cider, tummy anatomy, sleeper Hale Lakes, the bedroom dark in cool has two I, by the way she likes and lace flat, pillow, not
lucky, I go for medium fuzzy and hale, like me, is married with two kids, but my kids are. Fourteen in thirteen herds are much younger. The second ones born just a few months ago, which means that mom is not sleeping as much as she'd. Like I wake up two to three times a night, my Youngest one is not yet sleep trained, it is very difficult to assess Well, when you know you have to feed it a child. So most days, Hale fuels exhausted from lack of sleep, but she knows how lucky she is because her condition is temporary, as your kids older they'll sleep through the night, I know that my period of disrupted sleep, chronic disrupted sleep is time delimited, where I understand from my research on low income high financial insecurity, individuals that not every but he has that luxury of knowing when they will resume a full night sleep on a regular basis. Pails research
is focused on the racial and economic disparities asleep. She stumbled on this topic as a graduate student. Her Phd from Princeton is in public affairs with a focus on populations. Buddies. Hale was trying to understand why some groups of people are so much healthier than others the day She was using had a huge hole in it. I realise that we have data on the social experiences of individuals from childhood to middle age or older ages, and we are looking at what social factors explain: health and they had an enormous amount of data on these individuals on two thirds of their lives. The waking, hours, but they didn't have anything on. What's going on during that remaining third at night, that whole looks even bigger when you consider the scientific evidence on the relationship between sleep,
else. Well, twenty years ago we did know much about that. David Dingus is professor psychology and psychiatry at the university Pennsylvania. In recent years, he says, researchers have found strong associations between lack of sleep and all sorts of medical issues, large and small The experimental studies in the laboratory in both animals and human show unequivocally that we gain weight fairly fast. If we restrict our sleep, because sleep is so central, to health. Lauren Hale, really one define some data that showed how much and how well people sleep, and she did. The cdc regularly conducts the National Health Interview survey one year. The survey happened to ask people about sleep I was interested in the sleep disparities present among adults, and we found this stark differences. The national Institutes of health recommends that people get between seven and eight hours.
sleep at night. In the CDC survey, nearly thirty one percent of black respondents said they slept lesson six hours a day compared to just twenty three and a half per cent of white respondents. The black respondents were also perhaps not, coincidentally, more likely to be very poor. This lead Lauren hail to consider the possibility that blacks and other minorities are more likely to suffer higher mortality in part because. The short sleep durations generally people who have more opportunities, more control over their lives are also better sleepers and on the face of it, this would seem to make sense. We can envision a lot of connections between poverty and sleep right, you're, home environment might not be his canoe. To good sleep. You are more likely to hold more than one job, maybe have a longer commute, and financial stress probably doesn't help anyone sleep better, but that's her.
the CDC survey was a survey and survey data, as we ve preached around here can be the lowest form of data. It's quite difficult to get accurate information about people's routine. Sleep behave That's Diane Lauderdale. She is an epidemiology. at the of Chicago. She says that sleep researchers have been trying all kinds of ways to get good sleep data. The obvious one is to ask people how much sleep do usually get at night, and that seems like it should be a great way to find out about sleep, like if you ask people how tall or you or how much do way. You get a pretty good answer. It turns out, though, that sleep is hard. People don't actually know the answer to that question. We dont come with an internal clock, and so, and people are sleeping when they wake up, they have no idea, usually how how much they slept well. Plus. I guess we also don't really know exactly when you felt
sleep, I might have gotten embedded eleven, but I might not get to sleep till eleven twenty five every something, and I might not be aware of that right right. Well, you'll know that it took you a while to go to sleep, but you might not be at all good it s raining how long it was whether was five minutes or forty minutes. In addition, for many people routines very day to day, and so not only the problem of not knowing on any one particular night? How much sleep you God, but in answering a question about routine sleep behaviour, not really having a good sense of how to average behaviors over days when, in fact you don't know how much you actually slept on any of them. Indeed, CDC survey that showed a big sleep disparity between might some blacks simply asked people to provide a number for the total hours usually slept during a twenty four hour day, including maps whose another even more obvious
I'm a survey, Data Diane Lauderdale points out. If you want, you can simply make up your answer. One approach- people in sir This, unfortunately often resort to is just giving an answer which they It will be a well accepted answer to the person interviewing them a lot of people. the eight hour figure. Where does it come from? I have tried to figure out where it comes from. I have no idea, that's it question, if you have any leads I'd, be delighted to hear them. On the other hand, some people may have reason to under report their sleep. Maybe we're generally unhappy you're unwell, and you figured that it's because you're, not sleeping enough or maybe you're the kind of person who thinks it's sleep is for suckers. There was a period in the 80s 90s when you know Margaret Thatcher Her bill Clinton really brag about only needing four hours or five hours of sleep. What I came here
promise you is that I light and get up early and work hard as long as it takes two to this country around and give it back to the american people- and there was this period when being short, sleepers was really held up as as evidence that you were leading an important life. You probably still no plenty people like that. Don't you investment bank, is programmers. Anyone working on start up throw me time to sleep when I'm dead, they say they are sleep, shaming, the rest of us, but Diane Lauderdale thinks this trend is fading. I think far You are people brag about how little they're sleeping there more likely to be complain, about how the little they're sleeping an end valuing sleep. This may be because lack of, weep, has recently been singled out as a really really big problem. Last year the CDC declare
insufficient sleep. A public health epidemic is cited. The long term health implicate and also warned that poor sleep leads to motor vehicle crashes and industrial disasters. The news media, which never lets a scary story go to waste, has been halved. The time in it are the lack of sleep, carries a big price tag. There is a greater risk of poor health, obesity accidents and back judgment. While you re miscarry, learn your health can take a serious hit if you're not getting enough sleep and there's a wide perception that people in the? U S, sleeping less than they used to and the evidence. For that is very weak, but it's so commonly accepted that people at this point say it without referring to data or any reference, because people take it as the truth.
In other words, if you ask a simple question like how much does the average american sleep each night and how much is that amount changed over time? If any, well, the data to answer those questions aren't very clean one commonly cited study Diane Lauderdale, says, was a survey conducted in nineteen sixty by the american cancer society. It had the virtue of being a large survey, a million people who are asked about medical history, whether they smoked in They happened to ask people how much they usually slept in that baseline assessment. This survey concluded that Americans typically slipped eight to nine hours, a night with just two percent of respondents, sleeping six or fewer hours night fast forward. Now, thirty, five years in eighteen, ninety five, when the National Sleep Foundation did another sleep serving the UNICEF happens to take money from pharmaceutical and mattress companies, but
claim independence and academic rigour, Lauren Hale, for instance, the sleep researcher Stony Brook is on the innocent board anyway, this They found that nightly sleep had dropped to seven hours and then in two thousand seven The CDC survey reported that thirty percent of american adults were sleeping six or fewer hours in the. Findings were often getting compared with the nineteen. Sixty data people picked up on the distribution of sleep reported from nineteen sixty in that study as being this baseline of how people slept, but there is at least one big problem with the American Kansas City. Serving volunteers Recruit friends and family to participate, so the sample set wasn't even trying to represent the populations a whole. There were snow Minority group members in which they were well edge. hated wealthier than the general population, so Lauderdale is buying the argument that were all sleeping less in factories
she's found some evidence to suggest that teenagers at least spend more time in bed than these two, so that strongly suggest that there is not a big trend towards less sleep. Lauderdale is also cautious about presuming a concrete link between sleep and health. The evidence that sleet matters for health wow grew bowing and to some extent, pretty compelling is not as strong as the evidence that physical activity and diet matter of her house, I think We really need to do oh better, how sleep is related to health? It's it's! It's absolutely clear that sleep is related in some ways. We just don't have a lot of clarity about which those are and exactly how it matters. So what do you do if you Some clarity about sleep- and you don't want just rely on self reported data
In recent years, researchers have turned to something called activity. That means you attach. all accelerometer summons, wrist, think of a fit bit and attracts her arm movements. So you can get a pretty good estimate of when people are asleep. But, of course, is just it's an estimate, but the good thing is its its objective in that it it doesn't have all of these reporting problems. That. The sleep survey questions have a few years back. Lauderdale in some colleagues collected their own data on sleep patterns with some of the data. Goodbye respected refute this An add on to a larger longitudinal study that years earlier had begun following young, healthy adults in Chicago. This was done after people had been in the cohort about twenty years and they were enrolled when they were adults eighteen to thirty. So at this point there are mostly in their forties. The population was about half white and half african American, and that was by design
How the study was set up in the nineteen eighties. They at one time who had lived in the Chicago Aerial, but were not necessarily in this. I'll go area anymore, and there were about six hundred and fifty people who participated in this sleep out on study. The data from the study seem to confer m. The self reported data that Lauren Hale had looked at. What we found was on average, really large, gender and race disparities. Women on average slept. About an hour longer than men and white slept on average about an hour longer than African Americans, so that there was combined almost an hour and a half difference on bridge between african american men and white women with a white women sleeping more and the race difference was extremely surprising because it was so large in terms of race, what's the best expo,
patient for why whites slept longer better, then African, Americans, so some of the difference we found had to do with economic and education factors, but not all of it. So with this activity estimate and am intentionally highlighting we found that people with more education got more sleep and people with higher incomes got more sleep, ok so based on relatively objective data. It does seem that people with more education and higher incomes get more sleep and that whites get more sleep, then African Americans That's a nice clean, bold conclusion is not come on people. This is free economic radio, not gonna, leave it there. Are. We know we are not coming up after the break. We talk to an economist who looked at a truly massive
data set charting the daily habits of roughly a hundred fifty thousand Americans, and he found what seemed to be an opposite conclusion. You can have As for anything else, you want education, age, marital status, presence of kids, immigrant status, blacks leave more than whites on average and how well Do sleep. Researchers follow their own sleep advice admit I use screens at bedtime. I should not let screens are enticing in relaxing and one more thing. Before we go to the break for this episode, we asked you our progress listeners to tell us about your sleep patents. You respond. in great number and with quite a few, shall we say unexpected answers like the sleeping head defeat thing, hey guys, I just woke up. I thought I'd send this to you and let you know how I slept murmur of mad king.
men. If he California not well served Thorsten turned, I will slip through earthquakes, white new forms, the dogs bargain my wife being irritated, for whatever reason, never had a promise leaving my house. And not in town, and I never never sleep well when he's not here, my name is David My name is Paul Heinisch. I live in Campbell River. Colombia, Canada, we'll get anywhere from six to It's not our sleep and I sleep at the opposite end of my wife side of the bed. Defeat start out with her words leave him pattern that I have to sleep with my feet. Up where my wife said is an them. My head down. There is close to the tv as possible with the tv on The full time alone for economics is Mohammed sorry mining,
and I'm originally from Saudi Arabia, but I currently live in Scots rezoning. I cannot where socks, what I'm sleeping or else I get really thirsty at night, I usually sleep with two billows of my head, One. Pillow is important. One pillow between my eyes, I just lucky I used- is not a lot away before I went to bed, but when you quit called Turkey, you remember your dreams like hard core which is really stressful. I hate remembering my dreams, my name is he Feinstein age. Thirty, nine and I live in Dallas Texas at least try to get one body part touching saw tried to slip my leg underneath my wife's legs. I don't like to be touched, while
sleeping much. Do my wife's sugar in a no snuggling there's an imaginary line that I prefer not be crossed. It's awesome to wake up with the sun. I prefer a room that is pitch black or you can't see even a finger right in front of your face. In order to help get to sleep. I take two melatonin a baby aspirin and usually a Bombay Sapphire Martini Peninsula clan and from Colorado, but I now live in Hong Kong, nice. called pillow any flip over the called side. I was like that helps me fall asleep before tat. You should get really thirsty ass. I have to take a drink, but then I have to peace in an act of pain and thirsty again so take another dream. Then it won't go to bed right away after peak in the vicious cycle of small. That's my story. I guess I'd better sign off for now, so I can go to bed get some sleep.
Since we are exploring the causes and consequences of sleep. We asked to hear about your sleep habits I like to think of myself as a bit of asleep snob, so we thought we'd s the same thing of one of the first economists to every study sleep, her getting a little personal here, damn hammer mash them, professor of economics of Well Holloway University of London and merit, is professor at the University of taxes that Austin Hammer Mesh started, studying sleep in the late making. Eighties, in part, because he wasn't getting enough, but I voice view myself up pretty bad deeper? Some might sell sleep for eight hours, but then only six, the next his wife worries about em. You won't let him work past nine p m, so he tends to get into bed pretty early. I've been married for forty eight and a half years. I like
sleep on my left side, I insist on being the right side of the bed I see, but my left side and cuddle up to my wife was sleeping on her left side. If I'm buying itself in a hotel- as I am occasionally I see, but my left side, they had a pillow inflation. My wife when he is not hugging. His pillow for his wife hammer mesh lakes to crunch data he's a big fan of the american time you survey, which is produced by the Bureau of Labour statistics. It covers roughly hundred fifty thousand people, but, unlike the typical survey which just ask people to us, how much time they spend doing a particular activity, sleeping more doing housework or whatever the american time. You survey ask them to account for every minute out of all twenty four hours. This is meant to lessen the bias against particular activities. I think it's. A wonderful thing
started this in two thousand and three. It is by now the world's largest ongoing and in the only ongoing continuing study of how people spend their time and tremendous revenue The data for people like myself when we asked him hammer mesh, was good enough to look into the sleep numbers from the eighty. You is it a t? U s or aid us there's a discussion of this. on those who produce at daylight to say eighty, you, as my time is more Are you will I say, Etas? Ok, so what do the latest data tell us about? Sleep well tells us what you expect, namely the, persian sleep somewhere between eight and nine hours. So that's pretty much what you think. I variants by gender when we know that Men on average sleep about eight minutes more per night, then doom and which is not a heck of a lot
as to an hour week. That's the first thing, but that gender gap changes when you throw baby into the equation among people who were have little kids ages, zero through to ah for men that results in about eight minutes per night of produce sleep, compared to other men who have no kids, whereas among women it results in sixteen minutes per night, almost close to two hours per week of reduce sleep. So, despite the alleged great efforts that men are making these days to increase, equalize asian and behaviour of the household, in fact sleep, bread, ginger, much bigger. Among women than among men who have little kids hammer mesh, found the same rules
in the data from nineteen seventy five? So it would seem that not much has changed by the way married men and women. Both sleep about eight minutes less per night, then their single counterparts and since we're talking about american sleep habits, how do people born in the? U S sleep compared to immigrant immigrants sleep more given their education, their age, terrier, gender, number of kids, marital status and that's especially to from male emigrants, ah for man, it's twenty or twenty five more per night, which is a huge amount. That's twenty to twenty five minutes per night, which does suggest that America tends to be a bit more sleepless and the rest of it.
Let's get back to what we're here for to look at differences between high and low income sleepers and how those differences might influence something as important as life threatening diseases. Remember the other data we ve been discussing has all suggested that higher income higher education people sleep more than low income, low education people What does this aid is? Data have to say the answer is very, very clear: those who earn more money per hour who have better We call on economics, opportunity cost of working, they sleep less those we have more education because education increases your opportunities, the labour market, one should expect than one observes that the more educated you are, the less you sleep, given your demographics of age as MRS De marital status and presence of kids, it doesn't differ much between college dropouts and people with the aged
the big differences between those who have some college or more compared to high school grads, your high school dropout and we're talking fifteen twenty minutes for men. Which is a lot I mean that sir over Four hours out of your hundred and sixty eight per week, that's a substantial amount, and what about the black white sleep gap again, the other data suggested that black sleep less than whites Hamish says that's wrong. You can adjust for anything else. You want education, age, marital status, presence of kids, immigrant status, blacks leap, more than whites on average. It would seem that average, that is true. The Avis Data show that black men, for instance, sleep, eight or nine minutes more per night than white men for women. The gap is even wider: black women sleep roughly twenty minutes more than white women,
but Lauren hail the sleep researcher we heard from earlier says it average sleep. Duration is not the key metric. What you wanna do she says is break down the latest data. Further, you want to look at people with sleep fewer than six hours, a night short sleepers as researchers call them, and also the very long sleepers Dan Hammer Mesh was focusing on the averages. I think he is wrong because I've looked at the data and I think you have to separate out who are the short sleepers and who are the long sleepers. So we went back to Dan. Hamish asked them to give those computer again and re run the regression. Let me just look at this for a second. If I could ok, He found something he wasn't expecting. The average black be male or female is more like it is, very short hours less than six hours per night, so much more likely to see very long hours more than
eleven hours a night numbers are more extreme sleep by blacks than by whites, both very short sleep, and especially very long sleep and that's a new finding I'd, not seen that before the fact seems incontrovertible, and really really neat, meaning really persuasive and useful. If you're trying to connect sleep to overall health sleeping too little or too much, we should say, are both associated with poor health and one more thing, while the latest data do argue that high earners sleep less than low earners the universe you Chicago Aberdeen I'll just Diane Lauderdale, says that conclusion is also tricky. What I believe it is going on is that people with more money, spend less time in bed or a lot less time to sleep, but they spend higher proportion of the time they do a lot actually sleeping so they're more efficient in bed exactly efficient sleeping. I should,
but they may be more efficient in bed in every way, but they're more efficient, sleeping in bed. Yes, I'm not discussing that is so. that may have to do with it just overall how they think about their time, because their time is worth more we circled back to Sherman James, the Emory epidemiologists, two studies, the black White health gap. We asked what he thought of the possibility that sleep might be a missing link said he never thought of it, but it does seem plausible. He pointed out there our blood pressure drops to a nice baseline level when we sleep sort of an opportunity for the cardiovascular system to rest, but for African Americans he says blood pressure doesn't dip quite as much at night as four whites saw what we're looking at then is a reduced ability of the cardiovascular system to recover and that's gonna, be facts once blubbering
Sirius higher. Even while you are sleeping, then that's going to add to your long term risk part disease. Lauren hail from Stony Brooks, is the racial sleep gap may be driven in part by environmental factors. African Americans are more likely to be poor and live in a neighborhood that is not optimized for sleeping the irish neighbourhood is Lazier departments are crowd The apartments aren't as well a condition or heated, because it's a low income households there is more light outside on the street. There's an airplane flying overhead, theirs St Brawl going on outside. Maybe it's something being in that neighbourhood. So what did you take that person out of the neighborhood and and see how they sleep in the country or in the suburbs. With their sleep improve. We haven't done that experience. But the question is why, It really living in a high risk neighbourhood. That's the problem, or is it the more of a compositional problem of who lives in a high risk neighbourhood and who lives in a high
its neighbourhood, but of the same type of people we ve already reported, are at higher risk of poor sleep. Hale is currently doing research with the project called the fragile families and child well being study its following. Nearly five thousand kids born in the: U S between. Ninety ninety eight and two thousand most of them to unwed parents now the kids are teenagers and hails team is using wrist activity, detract their sleep. What we can tell from, came at the earlier waves of data. Is that as early as ages, three and five, and even at nine two were finding that black children are sleeping less though my children, there also having fewer bedtimes and fewer bedtime teens and are less likely to use the bad times, and so early on these parenting differences around bedtime might have lasting impacts at age. Five. We in particular looked at cognitive.
comes and behavioral outcomes and most strongly we ve, we found the cognitive outcomes were higher among children who had a regular language based bedtime retain reading. story singing a song? It strikes me that I've seen though, much messaging talking to us about nutrition and safe, driving in anti alcohol and anti drug and anti smoking, but I've never seen that. I can recall approach sleep message really want why is that her? Why haven't we seen that? Is it because it's not really that important or just because we haven't collectively come to appreciate the power of good sleep on a productive life. I think you're, absolutely right. Sleep has not yet been fully recognised as an important health behaviour. The centers for disease Control has every decade a set of goals for the health of the nation. And it wasn't until the twenty twenty initiative that sleep
aid the list of what we should aspire to as a country, and to the sleep community. That seems ludicrous were like it's obvious that sleep is essential for not cognitive, while being but for heart, health for psychological well being for interpersonal relationships. So, unlike in the case of smoking, which is a huge public health success story where you can say we, no smoking, is bad for one's health. The recommendation is to quit smoking. There wasn't clear recommendation on what duration and quality of sleep was expected. So it's more nuanced: the National Sleep Foundation
Others have issued a menu of sleep hygiene recommendations. Some them are pretty obvious. You wanna avoid caffeine, nicotine and alcohol to close the bedtime. Alcoholic may help you fall asleep, but the quality of sleep is reduced. The guidelines also suggest exercise creating a regular bedtime, routine and avoiding screens of all sorts from at least thirty minutes before you sleep, Lauren Hale, even though she is a bona fide sleep research, and is on the board of the National Sleep Foundation says she has a hard time with at last. One I admit I use screens at bedtime. I should not, but screens are enticing and relaxing in some ways, even though the research shows that the light in the content from reading a screen in bad or at bedtime are not conducive to sleep and how persuasive is that research? In your mind,
on the brink of becoming even more persuasive, but in December and Marie Chang and Chuck size learn at Harvard published an experiment, a study where they kept people in a laboratory at night. Some people were reading the same content on a book in some people, reading it on an Ipad and those people I did on an Ipad were shown. The light I mean they had closer to the light and had trouble falling asleep in lower quality sleep. So, persuasive. So you say you are you? Do you some screens, you screens for reading watching tv? What do you do it's a private before children and before I had an Ipad, I would watch tv at night. Now I I My phone or I look at an Ipad looking for, when you said, look at what you, what do you look handsomely? I read. Ok, you read like books. Are you reading emails and Instagram and Facebook S somethin, like that?
Emil's. I wish to respond to a male or I I read posts on Facebook. I read articles, not nothing heavy, it's late light. I would think that it's funny cause when you say nothing her, because I hear people so All the time like, I just look at that kind of stuff, and I would argue personally for me at least this is just an end of one. that that would be way more disruptive or distracting to sleep than reading an actual book. As I read a book, I'm really kind of formula to learn right and I'm focused, and it doesn't distract me in a way that, like seeing oh that's what that person is up to, and I wonder what that means for me and my family in my life and oh, my goodness, I went to Antarctica. I wonder if they're going to bring me back some frozen penguin poo as I get that. Would that be great. You know, and so when you say that it's just it starts to me in a guy to my underlined brain. I would think that's the worst thing you could possibly do our ear.
Clearly winning in this argument I've? I should not be reading my iphone before bed. inspiring me to take my own advice, Try it for a week and put this scourge his down. I did a screen free weaker last year, actually with with my kids at Whitley. With that point one kid it wasn't that hard, but I think the real challenges try it for a while: and see if you feel better, if you're sleeping more, if you're going to bed, earlier and and see how you feel and So I want to make this I want to make this concrete. Are you saying right here right now that you Val from today, going forward for one week that you're gonna do what they gonna, put all your screens outside of the bedroom at a certain time. Let's say is that we absolutely offer what time, which I, from nine o clock onwards. Of course, I have a little baby who falls asleep at seven, so I tried to fall asleep even sooner, but yes from nine o clock onwards, including I'm up in the middle of the night nursing I vow,
not to look at my Iphone, my smartphone or my television. Until seven in the morning awesome, ok, secures what's gonna happen. We're gonna get you back on the line in a week, I want to know what happened and ok want to then. No, obviously, if you're with what you learn about yourself, might inform somehow, where you want to go down the road for future sleep research. That's that's out of aunt S. Don't you get bilateral, much lower and thereby ok. That's all cliffhanger will lower inhale, be able to put away all devices before bedtime for a whole week. Next episode, you're here, I was shocked at how many times. I wanted to check my phone the tv go to the computer, but also next episode does sleeping more help you earn more money. We find that permanent
The increasing sleep by an hour per week for everybody A city increases the wages in that location by about four and a half per cent, and we hear more from you are listeners on how you optimize your sleep. My name is Spencer Office. I'm sixteen years old women, Omaha Nebraska, I sleep fully dressed in the next stage, close I'm ready to go in the morning and finally, scientific proof that the early bird really does get the worm. There was a significant differential in the sense that the monies high people earns for five percent more than eating type people. All of that next time on for economics, radio, We cannot wait here is produced by W and my c studios and W productions. This episode was produced by Christopher Worth. It was mixed by requiring an merit. Jacob or staff also includes Burma, Gunjay Jake how great resolve the cash.
I live, it's Alison Hockenberry and Caroline English, and would you do us a favour, our producing partner? when we see studios, wants to learn more about your radio listening habits. So please visit w when my c dot org slash, participate to take their brief survey w and my c dot org slash, participate thanks either Stephen dubbing again one more thing. If you liked the episode you just heard, we think you like something else in the friggin hammocks reading. Network? Look for this interview on the new podcast people. I mostly admire with host Steve, let it but my guest today Sue bird. She collects championships she's for double and be eighty of Egypt's five Euro League best about championships to end C h, championships for international basketball, federation, world cups and four olympic gold medal, I would
think that, in order to be the player you are, you would have to be a person who acted gets better under pressure rather than worth. Well, obviously, there are people who are known for hitting big shots, her known for playing well in big games that exists for sure, but I think we kind of frame it. There why it's not that you're gonna make nine out of ten. It's that you might make three at ten somebody else is making zero it's not whose most successful! It's like who's, the most successful the least successful. That is, people mostly admire you can find it on your favorite podcast app subscribe now, so that you don't miss single episode hey there, Stephen dubbing again, one more thing, if you like for economics, radio, I think you'll also like the latest episode of people, I mostly admire the podcast hosted by my free economic spreading co, author Steve Level,
Here's what it sounds like a guest today, Sue bird she collects championships she's for W Nba championships, five euro, the best about Mps hips too, and see a championships for International Basketball Federation, world cups and for limpid gold medals. I'd love to talk about the economic the professional basketball, so the average player in the NBA made eight point. Three million dollars into the nineteen and in the W Nba the average with eighty thousand is frustrating just now. I think. Actually, if you look at. twenty twenty, our minimum is now higher, but we all but in the same amount of work. So is it a heart
swallow knowing that somebody else's work is being rewarded at times by I live in reality. I understand business and economics. Some people look at us as like charity. The goal will help them out like an it in a terrible what sense, not unlike this business, investment way. Everything do look at us as an investment immediately its talked about how we don't make money, and it's like fifty years, the NBA, did either, but people are willing to make that investment get behind it and growing its people. I most We? You can find it on your favorite podcast, APP
Transcript generated on 2021-01-25.