How a pain-in-the-neck girl from rural Virginia came to run the most powerful university in the world.
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and things very allowed, depending whether I'm here I'm campus, Zidane alarms and other travelling around the country, leading with alumni and officials across the Globe Series of meetings with different members of the community Dean's, who run Harvard schools leading with senior administrative Office of General Council legal Affairs or are executive vice president with students or faculty, perhaps attending a student performance or student athletic media, the undergraduate student, attending a faculty medium and one or another amazing, with individual faculty or groups a faculty to hear about there. operations and their research and teaching so Those are just some of the things that could fill the day and it often goes from abroad. like the one I had this morning with a member of our Board of overseers, throw
Meetings into an evening of perhaps a dinner with one or another constituent group or performance or some other main activity, I'm exhaustive listening to you and part of today, you're spending through economic for which we are very grateful. I'm happy from the w and my seeing this is for economics, radio, the package that explores the inside of everything: here's your nose, Stephen Dogma,. drew Gilpin Faust was installed as the President of Harvard University in two thousand seven, her immediate predecessor was Derek.
a long time harboured. President years earlier, who came back for one year as acting president after the very short and very stormy tenure of Laurent Summers, Faust had spent twenty five years as a history, professor, at the University of Pennsylvania and later became dean of the Radcliffe Institute for Advanced study at Harvard as an historian. Her specialities are the civil war in slavery. Among her books are this republic of suffering death in the American Civil WAR and mothers of invention, women, of the slaveholding south in the American civil war, your friend Elizabeth WAR and now are you a senator formally Harvard law. Professor said that you quote were raised to be a rich man's wife. Instead, she becomes the president of most powerful universe in the world. So how that happen? you came from an environment in which President harboured was not really, let's say the most expected outcome. Yes,
It was an unimaginable outcome. I grew up in the night ten fifteen nineteen sixties in Rural Virginia and the Shenandoah Valley and concern but if community and conservative family traditional family- and we my mother said to me, it's a man's world sweetie and the sooner you figure that out the happier you'll be so the expectation The young women in that environment was that they would grow up and Mary and have children and that their would be subservient, insignificant ways to the aspirations ambitions. Agendas of the men whom they married, but it was a time of change. It was a time of day in many dimensions. The first and most obvious one to me as a child was the emerging civil rights movement, the Brown VIII Board decision sent, junior into a tailspin and are Senator Harry Bird, who came from my home county, advocated closing
schools, rather than integrating them, and This was all swirl around me. Issues of race very on my mind, even as a young child, and I became something of a rebel. I was good in school and happily get sent north to conquer to cattle as a teenager, and I found that being a bright young woman had a place in schools in all female prep school. Yet it was then it Wasn'T- and so I think conquered gave me. root and an avenue and a lot of support to ask questions that were very much in the air and to find a path for myself that could take advantage of doors opening in front of me, as women were given opportunities increasingly to undertake activities that just had not been imaginable before
I think I should say in all of this, despite the prevailing ideology of my youth about the appropriate place for women, I had two very powerful grandmothers who, sort of from behind the scenes where the force in the family, even though the men the family officially were in charge, those grandmothers set an example of female power for me that I think had its effects. You once said at a Harvard college: Women's leadership award ceremony that quote I'll kill you. I think I was born a pain in the neck talk more about that. Your desire to let's say, agitate the status quo. Well, it began with a demand for equality with my brother's eye brothers. Yes, the brothers and from an early age, they were given freedom
permissions, that I wasn't and I was required to do things like where little lacy garments that I found it checks, tenable, and so my first pursuit of equality was for myself in the family, and I do things like refused to come to dinner, because I was told I had to wear dress or I couldn't come in from the barn where I was taking care of my steer and not change before dinner, and so I'd throw fits about that kind of stuff, but I think it early. on the disparity between what I was being taught in school and in church about the amount can dream about human, justice and Christianity seems but odds with the position of supporting, segregation that was just taken for granted in the white community that I began to, against that readily.
There are two Eisenhower when I was nine years old, urging him to support integration. I am you don't happen to have that letter with you handy. Do you? I don't have it with me It is available. I found it in the national archives in the early two, thousands stalinist, I have a handy. Could I read it to you? You do I'm sure I left it just how material so interesting go ahead, my nine year old self. I read that you a little bit trepidation about going back and finding it too. Yes, hoping that it squared with your memory of what it said. Yes right right, yet all right. I'll read your letter that you wrote in February, one thousand nine hundred and fifty seven all those apparently incorrectly miss dated at one thousand nine hundred and fifty six
I am nine years old and I am white, but I have many feelings about segregation. Why should people feel that way because the color of their skin? If I painted my face black, I wouldn't be let in any public schools etc. My feelings haven't changed. Just the color of my skin long go on Christmas day, Jesus Christ was born. As you remember, he was born to save the world, not only white people, but black, yellow red and brown coloured people aren't given a chance. They dont have a good education, says many people is it their fault? If their fathers are so poor, they must be taken out at an early age to find jobs. Only about two percent of our prep schools are for coloured people. So what if their skin is black, they still have feelings, but most of all our gods, people please, Mr Eisenhower. Please try and have schools and other things except coloured people. Sincerely Catherine drew Gilpin nine years old
Did you hear back from the present I'm curious? I got a letter from a staff member not from the president himself and my parents who had not they haven't known I'd written this letter, and so when this letter, this acknowledgement from the wife else arrived. They were astonished and ask me what it had been about and I told them and they kind of rolled their eyes neither one of them was alive when I finally found the original of the latter in the in the island our library? That's a shame. You plainly had a very pronounced sense of segregation, be it male, female black white and so on. Can you just bribe a little bit more. The environment. You grew up in. I know that you, you lead a life of I. I guess we call it great privilege. We'd all agree s from a family of substantial means. Your parents, I understand, met at a Fox hunt, which is that's no way to me. So I'm just curious. If you could describe the environment,
specially racially. I guess of your growing up and how that led to this nine year old girl who wrote this letter to the President clerk Kenny. Was the smallest county in Virginia and its operation under river. But it's an interesting because, even though its in the western part of the state where slavery was less installed, then along this seaboard and the eastern part of Virginia it was a kind of outpost for a lot of tied water families. Carter some birds and others. Their younger sons came to that area in the eighteenth and nineteenth century. And so it had a substantial african american population that persisted into my childhood, the Earl of my childhood, and so I lived in a community
where I had a lot of interaction with african Americans, but it was a hierarchical interaction. They lived in a village called mill wood, which was near the farm on which we live and they basically african Americans worked in a variety of rules for the white people in the neighborhood. I lived a form a large farm and my father was in the horse business. So I spent a lot of time with horses. other animals I was in the forage club. I raised cattle and sheep and I ended a school in that area. Just a few miles from from the house in which I lived, there is a certain conflict or caught complexity about the family of Means idea in that Yes, my grandmother had substantial means. We lived on this large farm, but my
Father never made a lot of money, so there is this kind of scramble. always for cash. There was lot of land and other surround There is now a lot of disposable income and IRAN in a number of domains. On my grandmother, for example, she paid my tuition conquered Academy so that made it a little more complex than simply a spirit of available resources, and so There was a sense both of wealth and also Awareness of what limits there might be. I also from a community in which I did have a law of interactions with african Americans. It was not the same What about bringing to say I would have had had I been in the northern suburb, where I think I would have been more separated from African American, so I hadda, I think it a life very much influenced by
individuals, who I cared a lot about it from that community. Assume that was a substantial influence in you're becoming a scholar whose written about the civil war, but also has written particularly about slavery, also underscore coming from an old, prominent southern family. As you do, I'm curious whether your ancestors had slaves on slaves, I'm sure they did. I have My mother was from New Jersey and New England routes, but my father grew up in Virginia his family before that came from Tennessee and North Carolina and around the time the civil war, his family, some of his family and North Carolina and some of them in Tennessee would have been slaveowners. Yes, you went to and all female preps and then they all female College, Bryn Mawr,
and wound up in the Harvard orbit by taking over the Radcliffe Institute for Advance, study, formerly Redcliff College, of course, that which was the all Females Sister College of Harvard. Considering all that you ve accomplished in scholars, dip in administration and beyond. Does this in your mind, make any kind of argument about the value of a single sex education? Certainly, it was critical for me if I had been at Harvard College Radcliffe College as a student when, during the years of my college, education, which was one thousand nine hundred and sixty four to nineteen, sixty eight, I would not have seen powerful with professors. There were during some of them I'm zero tenured women professors at. However, in arts and Sciences at Harvard or one perhaps by the time I would have educated, I would have been allowed in the undergraduate library until the spring my junior year it was reserved for men at Bryn, Mawr College around the world. Was
smaller world. It was a much less influential world, but I had a female role models powerful women around me. I had no. To doubt what was possible for a woman until I was cast forth on the world and began to get a more realistic view of what that world was like. So you can Are you a two way you could say? While I was at Bryn Mawr, I was able to build up certain kinds of capacities and confidence that then were challenge tested. When I saw a more realistic portrait of the world as a whole or you could say, had I been at Harvard I might have or Rackliff I might have had to build up those awareness is earlier on, but on balance I think I was lucky to have time to become educated in an inter. Meant where I was valued in the way that women were at Bryn Mawr Comment- you have accomplished
So very much in your life, you have you have three brothers, I'm just curious. If you ve ever thought what you would have accomplished or how you might have accomplished differently, if if you'd been born. The fourth son in that family, instead of the only daughter, weeds, actually talk about this as siblings and what explains our different routes in life? I think partly I was driven to do what I have to make up for being here that I was not given the natural place in the hierarchy. I had to earn it so that one thing. I often think I also think about my grandmother's and their image of. a million power if it may be translated. Naturally,
in a changed era, into more public expression of capacity and power. It's a little bit of a joke and our family about the seeming power of men. At the underlying forests and everyone being terrified of my grandmother, so how to work that I'll leave to others, but there's some speculation about it. Coming up after the break the president, the first female President and Harvard very long history consider herself a token female appointment. There's no asterisk mess to my name, Saint last she's, just a woman present of Harvard also why Harvard thirty plus a billion dollar endowment is kind this Maybe not is massive as it seems. So if we look at endowment per student, Yale actually has more endowment per student than Harvard
who doesn't have an endowment for economics, radio hard to believe but true. So, if you want to see for this show and all the other great public, radio, programming and podcast coming out of w and my c in New York City, please visit for economics, dot, com and click on the donate button. You could write a letter to President Faust at Harvard ask her to redirect a stream billion or two of her endowment, but should be just click on our donate button. Instead from W and Y see. This is for economics, radio, here's your host, Stephen Debonair, we're talking with Harvard President drew Gilpin themselves form
pain in the neck, kid from Rural Virginia who before getting it, to university administration was a well regarded scholar, civil war, south. I assume that maybe throng assumption you no longer have the time at all to research and right, which is what you ve been doing for many many years correct. Well, I don't have time to do new archival research, which is extraordinarily time consuming because it's something of a treasure hunting. You have to be willing to waste out of time in a sense looking for things in order to find the ones that really matter, but I have been able to is to have some opportunity to write and think about history based on work that I've done in the past. I had a book that came out just after I became prime on death in the civil war, and it came out just as we were beginning to sell, em not celebrate, but ask is, may observe the hundred and fifty of end of history, the civil war. So I've spoken about the book and traveled around the battlefields and
it made into a PBS film, and so I followed the film around then spoke about that and have written some about issues having too with a civil war at this time of its anniversary soap, I've still got a hand in their. Let me ask you a question about that book. Republic of suffering you write about how the civil war changed the way Americans thought about death in power. Because of the sheer scale of death along with many other elements, some rather more than six hundred I was in soldiers alone died, which at this point would be the equivalent of six million people in today's population. I'm just curious: how did you think this huge wave of death and the way that that death happened? in the family home not surrounded by friends, not with the religious attachments. It were traditionally a part of that. How do you think that huge wave of death influenced our national character? If you can say, I think it did so in a couple of ways
one is that the brutality of civil war deaf coming to so many young people whose death seemed unnatural. In the usual process of life and aging made the victorian romanticism nation of death almost impossible. It was hard to think about death in a benevolent way. It was hard enough. Instances to think about what kind of God would allow such slaughter, so people were really knocked back on their heels in terms of the assumptions the world in which they lived and how it operated and how they should what their expectations should be. So that was part of it. Another part of it was that these deaths were undertaken on behalf the country, and so what was the relationship of the government to these losses and what kind of responsibility did the government have in face of military deaths and what grew out of that?
was a real change and federal policy. That now seems so second nature to us that the government would have responsibility for burying the dead for food and in the dead for identifying the missing, the national cemetery system, was established at that time, as well as the Pension bureau and other kinds of instruments of responsibility to soldiers who had fought and to those who had died, and that of course, is taken for granted aspect of our twenty first century lives. You took over the presidency of harboured not too long after the dismissal, very summers, the economists to rubbed some people very much the wrong way, evidenced by his public discussion of the difference between men and women in the sciences. Shortly after his dismissal than you became the first female president in harbours three hundred and fifty plus year, history
Did you feel in any way, and forgive me if I'm asking questions that exacerbate this? If the answer is yes, but did you feel in any way a token female appointment? I'm just curious whether you ve been made to feel what kind of feminist symbol or symbol of feminism when in fact you're just dumb, drew Gilpin Faust. Well, I didn't feel that I was a token appointment, because I didn't think that the Harvard Corporation would make token appointments they're, not that kind of group. I felt that I had been chosen on the merits, but there were plenty of people who outside of that realm, whose accused me being a token import manner or alleged that I was a token appointment and I found myself at the announcement of my presidency
in February, two thousand seven asked a question from the audience about how I felt as the first woman president of Harvard and just without having prepared at or even thought through, I d shot back and said: I'm not that woman, president of Harvard I'm the President of Harvard and that was an important statement for me, but I also realized increasingly over the weeks that followed that the kind of attention to the fact that I was a woman was I'm just about oh she's, just a token, it was also letters little girls all over the world from their parents. Saying now I, my daughter can do anything, and I I realise that I had to inhabit that space as the woman President of Harvard, because it did matter, and it didn't mean that I will
someone who had been appointed the way somebody is given an asterisk when they hit the largest number of home, runs in an extended state season. There's no asterisk mess to my name saint, while she's just a woman present of Harvard, but at the same time I am the woman press, done of Harvard that sends a message. I hope to anybody who hopes for the best and the most for young women when you came aboard. What were your biggest challenges is Harvard pray. then end, then give me an update and tell me where things stand now well, when I became present It was after an interim year where word dark Bach had come back to serve as president, and so things had been kind of in and suspended animation a little bed, and so how did we get back to normal? How did we enable everybody to get back and do their work and settle and to the routine of excellent teaching and scholarship, and so calming things down, was a big part of that first year,
I had to replace a lot of deems there had been deemed whose terms had em, and- and so I did lot of searches and finding people to put in place in a variety of jobs. I care a lot about teaching always have. spend a high agenda item. So how can we attend to the issues in the college? All those things were on my plate Harvard increasing international profile, but then one year in the financial or other recession to deal with yeah yeah and we lost twenty seven percent of our endowment and our endowment funds- thirty five percent of our operating budget. So what that created was a a crisis in which we had to look hard at everything we do and ask. Why do we do it that way? Do we want to keep doing it that way? And how can this The opportunity for change innovation in this institution to fit it for its next three hundred and seventy five years
and so as a result of that it was a very difficult I'm we had to make a lot of hard choices, but I also had a kind of wind at my back for change in areas varying from governance, structure of the university which we change for the first time since sixteen fifty two a whole a variety of ways of trying to do our work better and move Harvard forward. Now we should save as much as harboured lost in its endowment during that crash and and the recession harboured still has by far the largest endowment on earth. So I guess the the average college endowment in the? U S is about three hundred. Fifty million Harvard is north of thirty billion current.
unless a crack, please correct, answering on little bends worth thirty, which is more than ten billion more than number to Yale. So I totally appreciate the fact that you say when the endowment loses a huge chunk of its value that there's a lot of change. It needs to be undertaken or released considered, but he just talk for a moment about what an endowment in your view- and obviously this is not your decision to make really should be used- four should fund should be considered as because it's obviously much more than just a nest egg I worry a lot that there's not a broad understanding of what endowments or so thank you for this opportunity to say a little bit about it. First of all, An endowment is made up of gifts given to the university overtime that are legally bound to certain uses. So some of the endowment is restricted to funding. The french professor,
or funding student aid. And that means that we have to use the income from that money. For that particular purpose. And also, at the same time preserve the corpus of the gift. So it can continue to fund that in opportunity. Now. Let me say one other thing about comparing Harvard Endowment to Yale, Sir Princeton or anyone else's. It depends what a university does Harvard is much much bigger than you so we look at endowment per student Yale ACT we have more endowment per student than Harvard, and if you think about some of them, Instead, our funded by Harvard Endowment things like are: aren't museums things like a Renaissance research centre in ITALY. We can't take that money out of that. It can only be used for that, but it gets counted in that figure of Harvard Total endowment that
describe a major thing. We use our endowment for student aid and we able to fund in our undergraduate college student aid for sixty percent of our undergraduates because of the very generous gifts to financial aid that have been given over the years. There is a lot of patents particular the realm of economics, that the are why the return on investment on education is very strong fact. One could argue that education is maybe the single best investment than any human could ever one cell for one family, but increasingly there's been a lot of suspicion and indeed some evidence that the airline is either declining were simply not as strong as believed and or that there are too many people have been directed toward a certain kind of colleges when, in fact, I am perhaps that that might not be best for their outcome. How do you look at that question? Please be as empirical as you can in making the argument that education is indeed
great investment that universities arguments or what we ve seen in the past decade or to is that knowledge is increasing, lay the currency of the world in which we operate and the differential between what a high school graduate can make over a lifetime and what a college graduate makes our lifetime has increased. We also saw during the recession that unemployment was much lower than among college graduates than it was under those who did not have college degrees. so this is a time when learning and knowledge is increasingly not decreasing Lee important. This is something that We need to recognise as a society and Harvard believes very strongly in this and believes in giving opportunity to students from the widest possible range of backgrounds and financial circumstances. But we need to think about this.
Politically as a system of higher education across the United States and the importance of the public's who have been significantly defended in the night, but about the nineteen nineties, one in four dollars of support for the public's came from families and the rest came from the state this has reversed, and so, when you see the cost of education in the public's has not changed, but the price has changed because they ve been de funded by by their state governments. This is This investment that our nation is making in the most important investment it can make in its future, and so we to make sure that places like Harvard contrive, but we also need to make sure that the public can thrive and the system of community colleges as well for students who are seeking either a leg up into a for your college, education or perhaps a terminal to your degree that will give them the skills to operate within the modern techniques
generally advance workforce. it is time now to move on. To a few of our frequently asked questions. The same questions we vast of people like as these on sorry, I read the internet, so much you like, I'm like on paper a million of the worst book ever and I just won't stop for some reason. It's so addicted. But it's such a horrible work in Boris Johnson, the mayor of London is I'm I'm sure you we have now. in London, seventy two billion, which is more than New York New York, has any forty three billion as Paris has in the eighteen billion as
Moscow hazarding forty six in London is to the billionaire as the jungles of Sumatra, the uranium. So let me ask you this present fast. What would you consider the single best investment you ve ever made? It might be financial, emotional, educational, whatever in getting to where you are today and getting to wear your today may not necessarily is just a professional but as a as a human. I would say definitely my education going to conquered Academy was life changing for me. Put me in a different environment and gave me aspirations and possibilities that had not been available before what something that you ve spent too much on, perhaps still habitually, spend too much on and yet don't regret my dog. I have a shelter dog who is
Crazy needs. Prozac has also we owe the name. I read clear. That is the one she also Canada lots of. Well, we, and a dna tests. That said, she was part. English setter, part pit, bull, part, pug and part. What was the other thing Eskimo Doc That was well so she's, a very mixed up dog in more ways than one and she's I had a whole lot of orthopedic problem, so she said a voice surgeries on a rear legs and we invest a great deal in this dog and I am very glad we do, but there are others who would think we were crazy, not without What is your strategy for when you need to bring a bottle of wine to summons house for dinner? How much do spend on it and or do you re gift? I dont think it through that coherently,
guess. I go and find a bottle of wine and grabbing when he's o twenty bucks roughly fifty. Maybe more maybe more forty fifty, I often actually in recent times. There is a vineyard in California called Faust, and I have a good time giving people bottles of Faust say you can look up what a bottle of thousand costs these days. Natalie answer your question. I did look it up a bottle of two thousand twelve Faust Napa Valley Cabinet, serving on those for around forty five dollars What is the one story about you that your family always tells? Well? They don't tell it in front of me, so I dont know what is something president, Klaus, that you believed for a long time to be true and then decided that you'd either been wronger, otherwise, somehow change
And while I dont know how to answer that, I mean: is there any either political or economic or educational issue, word even dogma that you really subscribe to then came to thinking You know what overt, maybe it was something that over time I don't mean to it needs to be a road to Damascus, conversion moment but term, something that you really rivers field. Or you may just be an extraordinarily intellectually consistent person. Now I doubt that's the case I am, I think, I'm probably doesn't. Back alone, I'm always looking forward, and so I dont identify, say whoops I changed my mind there, but I need to think about this because I don't want it come to see me as somebody who never can change so vast. An important question that I will ponder, but I can't think of an answer. It's a deal, ok and if you had a time-
in when would you travel to and why in and what would you want to do there? I would like to go. to the period that I've written about and seed. I get it right Wrong, partly because one of my approaches to history been very much through the lens of anthropology, of trying to understand the culture and the broader said not just to chronicle advance but to really understand how people saw their world, and so, if I could time travel to their early nineteenth century or to the civil war era. I'd get a sense of whether I've gotten it right that would be entry into me, and I know you ve written that history is inherently tricky. that we rely so often now and then on individual stories. Nyet individual stories can be nothing more than anecdotes. It might be anomalous, so the job of historians to square those stories with with the aggregate didn't I'm curious how you would apply that too timid
the modern world these days, you know you are one person that I'm one person everybody listening here is one person with their own sets of opinions and and perhaps by a season so on, and yet we need to kind of think through our own prism, but toward the the the greater population. Do you think that problem you identified as an historian is a big problem in kind of public civic life today, and why there is so much send help Driscoll in question that such an intriguing question, which suggests it's an answer. I believe part of why I love history is It takes us outside ourselves and at its best one has to look through other people's eyes and that enables to understand, what's contingent about our choices and our existence and we need to that in our own time as well. We need to bridge beyond ourselves and take advantage of stories to.
serve as a road to other people as a pathway to being able to look at the world through their eyes and understand, where they're coming from, why they I differ with us on matters of policy or practice and have the stories power us to be more than simply locked within our own selves. So that seems to me an important part of what stories can press now. Thank you very much for your time. I so enjoyed speaking with you and congratulate then all you ve done be well. Thank you. And coming up the next for economics, radio in Chicago, which has an awful lot of violent crime, could cognitive behavioral therapy. Beware! to fight it. You gotta get the bottom line.
Remarkable research project whose findings are just as remarkable. I think the first time that we saw these facts, we thought wow. Can this be rice? That's next time freak number three. for economic. Radio is produced by W and Y see and debonair productions. Our staff includes Gregg was ASCII: Caroline English, Susie, Luxemburg marriage, Jacob Christopher Worth in kasza. Mihail of Ich this episode was makes might map fiddler if you are more freely Alex radio. You can subscribe to our podcast on Itunes, oh good for economics, dot com, we'll find lots of radio, applaud the books and more hither Stephen Double again, one more thing, if you like for economics, radio, I think you'll also like the latest episode of people, I mostly admire the podcast hosted by my free economic, spreading co, author, Steve Level,
Here's, what it sounds like a guest today, Sue bird she collects championships she's, for W Nba championships, five euro, the best about championships too, and see a championships for International Basketball Federation, world cups and four olympic gold medals. I'd love to talk about the economic the professional basketball. So the average player in the NBA made eight point three million dollars into the nineteen and. in the W Nba the average with eighty thousand is frustrating just now. I think, actually, if you look at twenty twenty, our minimum is now higher, but we all but in the same amount of work. So is it a heart
swallow knowing that somebody else's work is being rewarded at times by I live in reality. I understand business and economics. Some people look at us as like charity. The goal will help them out like an it in a terrible what sense, not unlike this business, investment way. Everything do look at us as an investment immediately its talked about how we don't make money, and it's like fifty years about the NBA did either, but people are willing to make that investment get behind it and growing its people. I most we admire, you can find it on your favorite podcast app either Stephen dubbing again one more thing: if you liked the episode you just heard, we think you like something else in the friggin hammocks radio network. Look for this interview on the new podcast
people, I mostly admire with host Steve Level, but my guest today Sue bird. She collects championships she's for double and be eighty of Egypt's five Euro League best about championships to end C, H, championships for international basketball, federation, world cups and four olympic Gold medal. I would I think that, in order to be the player you are, you would have to be a person who acted gets better under pressure rather than worth, while. Obviously there are people who are known for hitting big shots, are known for playing well in big games that exists for sure, but I think we kind of frame it. There why it's not that you're gonna make nine out of ten. It's that you might make three at ten Somebody else is making zero it's at, whose most successful. It's like who's the most successful. The least successful. That is people
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Transcript generated on 2021-01-30.