« Freakonomics Radio

226. Food + Science = Victory! (Rebroadcast)

2017-05-04 | 🔗
A kitchen wizard and a nutrition detective talk about the perfect hamburger, getting the most out of garlic, and why you should use vodka in just about everything.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
This podcast dynamically inserts audio advertisements of varying lengths for each download. As a result, the transcription time indexes may be inaccurate.
If you'd like to listen to free economic radio without ads the place to do that is sticker premium five dollars a month and you can get a free month trial by going to stick your premium dot com and use a promo code freak. You also get access to all our bonus. Episodes and you'll be supporting our show to that sticker premium: dot, com, promo code, freak thanks, hey they're, Pike S, listeners. Our last episode was about sugar. How much is too much and if it really is bad for us, as some people say why should be done about it this week. Another episode about things that go in your mouth, this one from the archives is called food plus science equals victory. It to looks at the friction between eating for pleasure and eating for nutrition. That's coming up in a sack, but first, a few weeks ago we put out an episode about a fascinating new project called making
Eve, your change stick. It is run by to University, Pennsylvania, researchers, Angela Duckworth and Katy Milkman, who have put together dream team of colleagues from a variety of academic disciplines. They are getting together next week in Philadelphia and we will be there with our microphones so that episode will sharpen your feed not too long from now and Warren Philly were also putting on couple knights of our lives. Show tell me something I don't know, and that too will feature Duckworth Milkman and their crew, the live takings or may eighth and ninth at the Trocadero Philadelphia you wanna come tell me something I don't know or if you just want to buy tickets, you can visit T M S, idea, k, dot, com and then in June were back in New York City for four takings of tell me something I don't know it symphony space again for tickets and info go to tee a mess. I decay that come in now
food plus science equals victory? So what does it say? Can g that there are so many conventional wisdom about something as basic as cooking food, which we ve been doing for thousands of years. That are, if not wrong, at least kind of misguided. Isn't that sort of strange? It is strange, but you know what I think is precise. Because we've been doing it for so long and because everybody does it and it's sort of an essential part of everyday life that I meet. I think it's one of the things that rarely gets a sort of a second thought, Today, we're gonna give a lot of second thoughts to what we eat and how we eat it. My name is candy Lopez I'm the managing colony directorate, serious each dot com, and I write about the science of food. The science of food does not sound kind of unnatural. I think a lot of people think of science as sort of the opposite of tradition or the
the set of natural and really it's not, you know, science is just a method, racism method about thinking about the world, and you can be for many different ends are right and I'm on board about you you like to know whether the secret of New York, That really is the water will be this agenda. Finding was at that the water makes almost no difference compared to other variables and the dough. Would you like to know oh for economics, radio listeners do things in the kitchen. If we can pick it up a chopsticks than that means it's completely cut on the inside, and would you like to know the true nutritional value of one of Americans? Favorite, vegetables, veterinarians, don't even recommended is rabbit food. from the w, and my sin is Reaganomics radio, the plank exploiting inside of every, with your help
indefinite. His full name is J Genji Lopez ought. The J is for James is given first name, he's always gone by Kennedy, but you didn't want to totally loser. James Alt is his last name. His father is of german descent. His mother's Japanese, that's for the country comes from and the Lopez is the last name of Kennedys wife, she's colombian. When she and can you got married, they both became Lopez. Hyphen ought so J can G Lopez. Alt has published a big beautiful doorstep of a book hit some as a thousand pages. big. It's called the food lab better home cooking through science. The first line I was never meant to be a food guy like in front of him Scientists to my father is a microbiologist and my grandfather's inorganic chemist. I had a very
science and math heavy childhood, I was one of those kids would wake up thirty in the morning to go and watch MR wizard. Nickelodeon colombian. We are going to go. Evaporation gonna go from a liquid to a gas. You watch what happens what's going on it shows an honestly, I think not a conceptual everything I learned about basic science, all the way through college. I learned from that show really unit I'm not joking, I'm not joking, so you were way into science as a kid. Were you into food as a kid no, I mean you know my family liked. Eating but enough. I was one of those kids who like I you know I hated fish until I was probably in my early twenties, and you know when I went to college. I had no idea how to cook what would be a tip the goal family than the nightmare. Let's say well, so my mom is japanese. She moved to the U S when she was a teenager and so her food
was she did all the cooking at home. For the most part, my dad would occasionally cook a special meal. You know when he felt like cooking. He would cook a lot of mexican or chinese food and those are always nice nights, but my mom cooked the owners are daily food. It was all a sort of a mixed between japanese food and Betty Crocker nineteen seventies, staples alot of the recipes in the food lab nod toward those seventy staples, but are improved upon through science. Ok, so I'm about to make an assumption Tom. If the assumption is right or totally wrong as a kid, you were signs upset you went to MIT and in the beginning, studied biology. You come from a family of scientists, so my assumption is that all of that got kind. Baked into you to some degree, and this kind of appreciation for these familiarity with the scientific method and then, when you fell in love with
winning cooking that you naturally kind of partly the scientific method into the cooking methods that at all, true or not. Yet that's that's very accurate, remarkably accurate you'd. I found when I was working in restaurants that I did have the sort of natural curiosity about why things work. He first found his way into the kitchen during college. It happened by accident and also important life lesson here by lying the summer after my sophomore year, I decided I wanted to take the summer off from any kind of academic work, because I was kind of getting burned out on biology, so I decided to go the job as a waiter walked around Boston, trying to find a job as a waiter, and nobody wanted to hire me and then, when it wanted. restaurants, I walked into. They said they didn't have any way to positions available, but one of their prep cooks didn't show tat morning and if I could hold the knife that I could have a job as a cook, so I lied and see. I know I know how to use a knife, and I and I'd like literally had I dont forget ever cut anything with the chefs knife in my life before he was hooked,
so yet from the moment I stepped into the kitchen. I was like this is the life for me this. This is great. He did graduate from MIT. I switch majors to architecture, so I finish with a degree in architecture, structural engineering, but then he spent the next eight years working in a bunch of different boss, restaurants that first restaurant job was that I am one of mongolian girl take places. I was a knight of the round girl. I would do things like flip shrimp behind my back and stuff, like that from there to like sort of big
restaurant mexican play it. It's a plays work my way the chain. I started working full time and you get a job at one of the Europe that the nicest restaurants in town arbour. Lynch was my first really great shadow worked at her restaurant number, nine party and oysters, and a butcher shop, doings, recruiters can or injure who also has a number of really good Boston, restaurant, modern restaurant vanished place and as a modern, sustaining bar, but his Lopez all rights in the food lab. I discovered that in many cases, even in the best restaurants in the world, the methods that traditional cooking knowledge teaches us are not only outdated but occasionally flat out wrong. This as, of course, his science background talking. You know why we cooking in this way would be better to cook it. This way, you know why are we doing this and that something that it is actually not there the easy to work with when you're in a restaurant, because it's such a fast pace environment, you don't really have time desert it asked these questions or investigate them are answer them so so that that was also one of the reasons why I felt in his desire to get out of restaurants angle
go into writing, because I thought it would give me more time to actually think about these things and answer these questions I've been building up for so many years. His first writing job was it cooks illustrated magazine, so they have a big kitchen him climb Massachusetts me so that it has a thirty ovens: twenty five burners. It's a big task kitchen, and I mean that was pretty much perfect for me, because they saw me things by doing just that very same thing, with new asking questions and spending the money and the time to answer them. First, it cooks illustrated later at serious, eats Lopez all began to refine and methodology. The first of his always
So what I'll do is I'll go and look up that you know looked as many sources that I can for the history of the dish. Many different recipes to see how different people are making it. Many starts to reinvent the recipe, or at least we think I try and find areas where I think it might be problems for home cooks or areas where I think it could be improved in efficiency. This means taking a step backward, not thinking just in terms of ingredients and texture and flavor, but scientific basics like temperature. There's a difference between preacher and energy, and that's a concept that I think a lot of you will have a difficult I'm rubbing their heads around, but did the really quickly, He waited demonstrated. Is that if you think about a pot of water, that's boiling the temperature of that waters to under twelve he's Fahrenheit a hundred degrees celsius and stick your hand in their you're. Gonna burn your hand at the same time, you can have an oven at two hundred and twelve degrees. Fahrenheit to degrees celsius, and you can stick your hand in there for like a minute and you won't. You know, you'll barely feel it'll feel hot, but you're not going to burn yourself and the way that this could bear itself out in cooking is, for instance, if you've been used to cook
PETE says on a baking stone. You know which a lot of people have in their ovens. A stone is not particularly dense compared to save solid metal there. Now things called making steals, which are solid sheets of steel, that you he'd up in your oven and they transfer energy tier pizza much much faster than a stone can either there are the same temperature. So you know you can have a steel at four hundred degrees and a stone at like five hundred fifty degrees and the pizza placed on the steel will actually cook faster than the one that's placed on the stone. Tell me something I don't know about the geometry of food. You refer to that a few times in your book. Why is unimportant? How should I think about it differently? The geometry food? It is important because you know one of the big things is surface area devalue, yet ratio. I like to think about it this way where, if you're, looking at the edge of a piece of general, says chicken and send say you're looking at it from about two feet away and you you try and trace the outline of that also chicken, and you say you are right: the primitive that piece of chicken is two inches and then
look at it a little bit closer and you see you know what like. I was just tracing a very rough outline if I actually go in and filling these little crags. Ok, now it's more like two and a quarter inches and if you look even closer you'll see that now, maybe it's more like two and a half and this is a phenomenon that people a geologist see with coastline, said the further away. You are the smooth, they seem and and the shorter they are. But it's important because with a food like fried chicken, you wanted to be really really Crispin the more surface area you have the more so a little nooks and crannies, you have the crisper is going to feel in your mouth, the better. The sauce is going to cling to it, I'm all those things. So you know crispy food, Let them to be really crackly and have a very high surface a volume ratio. Is there any in? I'm sure there are, where more surface area not better yeah. I mean, if you wanna, say cook like a primary breast for sample more or even like a tenderly stake. You want it actually to be in his compact is either a sphere
or cylindrical a shape as possible, because I'm minimizes surface area to de volume ratio and that's important because for four things like that, the more surface area have the more is going to dry out while its cooking, because there's just more surface where moisture to escape from and the less even these The cook so that that's why you're cooking like a tenderloin steak or or your roasting, a whole tenderloin or primary- you generally want to tie. It up a little bit so that it retains that nice cylindrical shape and that you know but more than just aesthetics, it actually reduces surface area and thus help to pretend juices more evenly better. The underlying component of the food lab methodology is the same, underline component of most bench: science, experimentation, for something like general. So, for example, my big go from the very beginning was to get the chicken to be as crusty incur really as possible and to make sure that it developed across that would stay crispy even after you toss it in this sort of gloomy sauce,
so so. A lot of my testing for that recipe was with the various types of breeding and and frying methods, and how to really sort of enhanced that Christmas. Can you name a few reach the breeding and methods? If you answer the basics, do that there is, like I tried dipping in cornstarch. I tried to be in a cornstarch slurry, followed by dry cornstarch. I tried using various mixes of cornstarch and wheat flour on my truck potato starch and try to tapioca starch. I try, doings, a sort of a sudden style brining, the chicken in asian players, with a little bit of butter milk to tender rise. It I tried using eggs versus no eggs. Many different things like that that the final recipe I ended up with uses some vodka. In the matter, which is on, which is a guarantee fund of vodka four battering. Yes, I am having its I use it in a few different things. Usually you use it when you want to develop crispness, but also maintain lightness because of vodka well
of moisten, a batter or a dough, but it doesnt develop gluten. The way that water does so it so it stays nice and light. It doesn't get tough and, and the other thing the vodka does is It evaporates much faster than water does is more volatile and water. So when you, when you put food, that's been duped into a better made with vodka into hot oil that sort of vodka really violently bubbles away very quickly, so that sort of lightens up the coding and it makes it much crisper, gotcha it's a which of those coatings ended up winning, I believe, I did a mixture of vodka cornstarch little bit of wheat flour, along with some so assassin and said the chicken gets kind of dipped in that wet better and then tossed in a dry starch mixture I'm just curious how I guess rigorous your experiments are, would they pass muster in science led, for instance, sometimes, if there is really like us or a deep question about cooking that people are very conflicted on that. I will actually do you know a really well controlled,
experiment, doubled lines. So, for example, I gum one of them. they did a number of years ago was to answer the question whether New York Pizza is really good because of the water right yeah and people say it is, and you know people use at us use a lot for why they can't make good pits outside of New York. So for that, when I actually, I did a full double bind experiment where I got water, starting with perfectly cold water and then up to the various levels of of dissolve solids inside the water in New York in New York has a high level. I assume of dissolved sound, pretty high, pretty high, yet not the highest but pretty high. So I think I had it's different water samples ranging from very high to nothing and them into numbered bottles, and then I had an assistant, my wife rearrange them he's on the bottles, and then I passed the bottles on a pizza chef in New York, so I didn't know was in the numbered bottles. Hidden knows in the numbered bottles. I also done
the couple them up as a controlled. I'm to make sure that our testing panel was on points and then and then I had a bunch of people, a mix of sort of amateurs and also sort of professional food writers, common taste. The pizza is blind We basically into finding was at the water. It makes almost no difference. other variables in the dough and I mean that you know that one, it's it's sort of silly premise, but you know, but it, but it was a pretty rigorously hay and someone who lives in Europe needs Peter. I don't think that's what happiness at all. I think that's exactly what science is for. It strikes me that everything we're talking about so far is geared toward cooking for taste, which makes perfect sense, because eating is incredibly pleasurable different being necessary, but then there's a school of thought small, but growing. That says that one reason that we ve got into such like nutritional trouble is
cause. We have had the luxury to eat for taste and that we stopped eating kind of for nutrition. I'm just curious what your thoughts are there, because I love, I mean your book as unapologetically about deliciousness. And when you write about Super creamy, cheesy, O Groton potatoes. It's like we're going. It's a whole modesty. It's like as much claim as we can is much better to become an I love your celebration, but on the other hand, you are doing this in an era when there's a lot more focus on nutrition. I'm just curious how you kind of balance that, while I'm one of these people who really thinks that it's all units moderation and from the way my book is written. You might think that I eat stay can every night, but the reality is reality really far from that. So if I'm gonna eat a hamburger, I want that to be the best damn hamburger. I can make right. So that's where they this idea that you know like a monitoring perfect these foods? These comfort classics that people that people love you shouldn't a surly you every day, but you know when you make them
let them to be really great. So on a day to day basis. You know my have a nice day, mostly vegetarian, we alot official at sea food. We both exercise, so you know I think, on food can be delicious pigmented. It should also be sustaining at the end and in Europe, It's not really worth that extra serving a burger we're extra serving of of three potato casserole coming up after the break, we go deeper into the delicious verses, nutritious debate, even a lot of the fruits and We are not very good for us. You wanna know whose fault it is its America's fault. What happened is all of these great food cultures at the countries that we came from got lost when we came here, but first a couple: more kitchen tricks, here's candy Lopez, on scrambled eggs, the one big thing that with what scrambled eggs, if you salt your eggs, while the rock
a pinch of salt in the eggs, while the raw beat him up and let them sit for about fifteen minutes ago, actually retain moisture a lot better than if you were to just took them straight and seldom at the beginning. He can also help out with your pipe rest. If you use vodka in place of some of the water in your I trust it doesn't make the pie boozy, but you end up with a dough that is much flick, ear and much lighter. We also asked you for economics, radio listeners to tell us your kitchen tricks and pacts in superstitions, I'm running this chain on twenty five years old, colonel live in New York. But I grew up in Taiwan, a coronary track that I learned going up with that when the boiling enable can tell us whether or not its fully caught by trying to pick it up With chopsticks I'm running a stole from Mobile Australia. I've been about my mom when prepare cucumber, to cut off both ends of it and to rub it,
on the previously caught pipe and somehow removed the bitterness hi. This is Tiffany innkeeper, Tino, California might baking tip. Is that, contrary to what Martha Stewart always said, Do not need to make your salt and your baking soda into your flower in a separate before you added to the rest of your batter. This is David lines out of Denver Colorado and the canaries secret. I learned from my wife who is korean: is too old Is it so gryce before you cook it once used our do in this way there is no going back, not much is known about when humans began to cook food. Although cooking is widely thought to have started long before agriculture, the earliest archaeological evidence of humans, controlling fire and possibly cooking dates roughly a million years ago, but the Harvard Anthropology
Richard Rang M, argues that started nearly a million years before that. He also argues that cooking is what made us human, that it allowed our prehistoric ancestor to spend less time, and gee chewing raw foods and that that energy could be directed toward growing the human brain. But that's not. The only reason Creasy cooking. It releases nutrients in raw foods and often makes a more potent and easier to digest. There's some food, kill, and broccoli are two of them that we absorb more of their answer: fighting ingredients if we eat them raw, but most fruits and vegetables benefit from light cooking either, I take, it may mean olive oil at low temperature or lightly steamed, less cooked than most people cook them. But this light steaming or this this gentle saw tee
breaks down so walls, which makes more than new trans available to us. When we introduce The someone my name is John. and I am an investigative journalist and she spent most of her career, studying nutrition and food. Unlike congealed, has Alt Joe Robinson, was destined for her career path, and it really can. Down to this amazing grandmother that I had who had a sense about food and wholesomeness. Like a nineteen ten She and a group of women were critical of the agricultural Department for saying that we should be eating white bread instead of whole wheat, bread and the thinking of the time. Mrs the site, food science of the time was that all of that fiber in the brain and the germ we're just refugee that we couldn't digest wells or wasn't good for us in this group also lobbied that Coca COLA shouldn't be sold her grandma
very much influenced the way the family ate. So more than other kids, we had whole grain, we ate knots and seeds and brewers hissed and lots of fruits and vegetables. So I just grew up with that as being normal as a kid growing up in Washington State, partly into coma and partly in the Puget Sound wilderness. Joe Robinson. Would sometimes spend her allowance on wonder bread so she was the only one in school, the sandwich on homemade wheat, bread as an adult. She tries to sort nutritional myths from reality my job is to go into the scientific journals find. What I think is important for human health and repack
did in a way that people can first of all, understand its importance and then find we know what to do with what what am I gonna pick in this grocery store when we're gonna pick in this farmers markets? So really it take someone of like myself to translate science to action steps robinsons latest book is called eating on the wild side. Fascinating almost every page tells you something you dont know about food, especially fruits in bed and herbs, and a lot of it goes back to that split between the list a nutritious where we humans are programmed and have always been programmed to prefer food that is high, carbohydrate starches and sugar and oil, because those kinds of nutrients were very poor in the wilderness and we had to be motivated with these feel good brain chemicals to go out and get them, and so on Over time, we just kept picking sweeter fatter
richer softer thus fibrous food. Ever knowing what we're doing, and it is only Only now do we have the technology and the slowly We wisdom to know how we should transform our food supply to make an optimum for human health. In Robinsons View America has been guilty here than others. I dont think Americans are stupid when it comes food, nutrition and health. But what happened is all of these great food cultures of the countries that we came from got lost when we came here and everything became homogenized and then we became leaders in industrial agriculture, which has nothing to do with nutrition, has to do with volume endless flavour, so the vast majority of food crops in this country were growing them because their highly productive or disease resistant. Those are the two criteria that
farmers. He is an agricultural schools years to determine what varieties we're getting eat there, not looking at food value, so other countries throughout the world. tend to have more nutritious diet than we do, and then we started breeding out all signs of bitterness. Consider, for instance, one of the most popular vegetables in America. Overwhelmingly people in this country eat ice for Gladys. Now, why is that is a very productive letter, many many tons of letters per acre and its also a very mild tasting, let us and as a culture we are pretty bitter adverse, and so we like the fact that iceberg lattices, like kind of a watery crunch and doesn't have a lot of flavour. So it's everywhere
so maybe iceberg isn't one of those classy salad, greens, arugula, Mozilla or even just a romaine, but hey still, vegetable right, which means its forgot. bought a nutritional value right. Iceberg lettuce has fewer neutral, than any other. Let us in the store, in fact veterinary don't even recommended as rabbit for making this. It is not enough nutrients to support the health of rabbits to think productively about our nutritional present, future Robinson began by looking to the past, I began to compare There were eating today with the wild diet that says and as for about ninety eight percent of our evolution- and it was so very clear that over time
We have greatly diminished the nutrient content of our animal products and are all of everything that we grow. So you may think that eating any fruit or vegetable is good for you, but that certainly not true, because the it's in vegetables are most people pick in this country are extremely low and any accidents, and that includes thing slight melons and sweet core white, sweet corn and white potato as and bananas iceberg Gladys there at the bottom of the total power when it comes to food values. So what's a solution, we need to find out what science is now telling us about the best varieties of fruits and vegetables to eat, and this is complex, science and its not widely adopted at this time. You're not gonna, find it, Bestia saying more of the cabbie trembling as it has glucose Scintillate Senate, which are cancer. Fighting organism
So we really need to go outside of mainstream nutrition and agriculture to fine. What's best for our health. That's the mission Joe Robinson is on. She advocates seeking out the less sweet, less homogenize version, whatever you already eating, so the best thing that you can be eating in terms of true lattices we'd be read, leaf or dark green leaf, Ladysmith readily lettuce, far superior to the others, a Grannie Smith or honey. Chris battle is better than a golden Delicious. Although heirloom varieties is Robinson, rights are generally much better than supermarket fridays. The very popular russet Burbank potato has about a nutrients, but also very highly seeming index. On that front,
red and blue flesh potatoes are much better. Although harder to find in this family, vegetable, sweet, potatoes or yams are the healthier choice. Berries are great, but again the wilder. The better is really no better for our health and wild berries. Wild berries tend to have, to ten times more health enhancing fighter nutrients than our domesticated varieties choosing the better varieties of the food we eat. It's when we. I do call this eat me now me now, because why, when plants are harvest said, we think that their dead they're, not there actually living until we eat them or cook. and all the same they're alive there brewing their own antioxidants to protect the fact that their
still inhaling oxygen, but they're not producing more any oxidants cause. You can't do that when you're harvested, so you need to eat them the day you buy them or the next day. Ideally, so these are some of the things that you want to eat meat now, spinach asparagus, Broccoli, artichokes, Kale, green onions, mushrooms, parsley and cherries, and if you do that, you make two three five ten times were any accident than if you push on with that Frazier hitter and remember, find them for a week or two later now you might infer robinsons eat me now rule to also mean eat me raw, but she says the raw food movement is misguided is difficult to find science to support the idea
that we're healthier eating raw produce than lightly cooked produce. Where does the raw food idea come from? One of the claims is that if you cook things, you destroy plant enzymes and that's true and so the thinking as well. We need these plant enzymes in order to digest our food. They're gonna make us healthier, but plant enzymes are not created for our health. Therefore, the plants health, what about canned vegetables and must be less nutritious than fresh right? in most cases. Yes, but with tomatoes. Canned tomatoes are actually better for us than a fresh organic of book, locally first heirloom tomato, because the train into manners, which is proving to be supportive of heart, health scud, like a pain and when I could is heated. It is transformed into a form that we find easier to absorb and the best source of
like a pain in the entire store, is tomato paste and your people don't like to hear that. How could that be? But in fact science supports it.
in scouring the scientific literature on what we eat and how we prepare Joe Robinson is come up with her own list of kitchen tricks. Now, unlike candy Lopez, alt work, which is meant to optimize taste, hers is meant to optimize nutrition, garlic, for instance, lot of US cook with garlic for flavour, but also because of its reported healing properties, but he can destroy those properties. There is, however, a simple trick to prevent this. After crushing chopping, the garlic you let it sit, release ten minutes before cooking it in that allows its health promoting compound Alison to form, as for the best way, to cook most vegetables. If you want to optimize their nutrition, we need people are surprised to hear that steaming. That's rose in the microwave is probably the best way to preserve nutrients and
cook the food for as short amount of time as possible, so the microwave will do that for you, and so you just put it in microwave, steamer and cook it for just a couple of minutes, and it's done if you're happy with the way, you're, cooking and you're happy with the food and there's no real need to change it. That's country Lopez altogether, but if you could make a food slightly better or efficient or tastes better by doing something a little bit different and someone else is willing to go and do the work to figure out what that different thing is, then I dont see reason why you wouldn't want to change so in this regard. Lopez, Alt and Joe Robinson are in power. Basically the same camp using science to improve what we eat and how we eat it. Wherever you fall on the spectrum of delicious verses, neutral,
snow, presumably we're all looking for some seen balance of the two. If you think about it, food is probably the single most important input that we control in terms of helping our bodies in minds function. So, of course, we should try to optimize its contribution to that and, on the other hand, life is short. And eating is a delight. I have a very sort of like deliciousness, first approach to it. If I'm gonna eat a hamburger, I want that to be the best. m hamburger, I can make okay. So how does candy Lopez all make the best Damn Hamburg now, is actually got a variety of burger recipes in his book. But the recipe as with anything is the easy part. The hard part is getting the science right in this case it begins with the salt so what salt, as when it interacts with meat? Is it it'll initially pull out liquid from the meat through as Moses, on which we all learn, that in middle school, science are minimal
liquid and then that salt will sort of dissolving that liquid and then what happens as it forms a sort of super concentrated brine. Brian brine will actually dissolved some of the muscle proteins, particularly protocol Myerson, so this can affect meeting couple of ways so particularly with ground me, soldier ground me and you work the salt into it. It'll dissolve this protein mice in and then once that protein is dissolved, it'll cross linked to form this protein network. That makes them you, Sir, to tighter and helps it retain. You're better, but at the same time it is really drastically alters the texture so and any sausage make well, actually know this that your soldier meet probably a Dane advanced and the next day. You'll, grind it and and needed altogether, like you're, making go and in fact it is very much like you're making dough, because your creating the sort of protein network that traps everything else in and that's what gives a sausage assorted, nice, springy, bouncy, juicy texture But, on the other hand, if you do this to hamburgers, you end up with burgers at our tough and robbery, You know so: silver Hamburger,
would recommend only salting, the very outside of the burger after you've formed it, and actually recently, my colleague and I we made a series of videos and it's part of one of these videos. You were talking about burgers and about this very effect, and we we we rent, a baseball, pitching machine power enough when both of these against the target using the Patty pulse here and see what happens. that would throw hamburgers at the wall at forty five miles per hour, Patty number one, and so we try which were difficult, patties, one of them salted on the inside once all the pony on the outside, and then we shall therefore thing in slow motion right, meets, link, Cochrane, ready and you'll see that that salted Berger kind of bounces off the wall like a rubber, all against the it cracks a little bit, but it basically just balances are carrying whereas the Berger that has salt only on the outside kind of exploiters- and you know it some there you can even tasting you can very easily taken in your mouth,
as a burger made with salted meat will be tough and one made with salt. Only in the outside will be tender and juicy, which is the way I want my burger to be. I really want you job, I have to say, is hits a pretty great job. we'll be back next week with new episode of I'm radio till then, thanks for this for economics, radio. Reduced by w and my c and d nor productions? Today's episode is produced by urban ganja with help from met fiddler. Our staff also includes Shelly Louis Christopher Worth Merit Jacob Gregory, Zawoiski, Stephanie, Tam, Eliza, Lambert, Ellison, Hockenberry, Emma Morgenstern, Harry Huggins and brand Gutierrez. You can subscribe to economics, radio on Apple podcast, source teacher or reverie, get your podcast. You should have
check out our archive at free economics, dot com, where you can stream or download every episode with ever made. You can also be the transcripts and find links to the underlying research can also find us on Twitter, Facebook or the email at radio at for economics, dot com- you don't answer many, but we read them all thanks for writing. Thanks for listening.
Transcript generated on 2021-01-23.