Lessons from Tom Petty's rise and another rocker's fall.
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of whom little is expect. If someone had said to me, look at the four guys in the Del Fuego sure look at the four hundred as in all the bands. You know who would be the least likely to end up with a phd, it would have been really what no offense, but it would have been you so does that trajectory seem strange from the inside is the outside. Or is it not surprise you so much in retrospect? It does surprise me when I try to make contact with my, health as the young kid in the rock and roll them with the chip front teeth. I dont see him. adding to where I got so. Where did warn scenes get too? He is the executive
rector of Stephen Vans, ants rock and roll forever foundation before that he was the vice president of education and public programmes at the rock and the Hall of Fame and Museum in Cleveland, and he writes books, including a new. Very in depth and very personal biography of Tom. Petty he's been my hero since I was Eleven someone I really looked up to as it turns out Tom Pennies potential for success, is no more ever the people around him and ones in this was to me something Several of the principles and Games or Florida said to me, was wouldn't put my money on Tom Parry, you had stood still had dont Felder Bernie Leaden, who went being in the eagles. You
the arm and brothers close by playing battles at the bands. There were their appeal who just looked like they were all set to go These guys, are finished products and describe him as a teenager. I see a guy who was in touch with his confidence completely yet who did not yet know what he was going. B as a songwriter north. I think You see another player among a community of players, but not the superstar. Today's
Precision is also about when the most fragile, most volatile, most sublime social units ever invented the rock and Roll banned, the alliances, the distortions that deep bruises in the absurd relations that can never be explained to an outsider, also the inevitable failures, and I think that the music business is best for those who have a capacity to whether a chain of disappointments, because if you can only handle one, you should probably go work at the florists enough. I'm fine from the W and my see this- is free economics, radio, the pot calves that explores the hidden side of everything. Here's your host, Stephen Governor,
warns aims is fifty years old, I knew him a little bit a long time ago when we were both in bans, his band, the Del Fuego, so that a Boston and a few years, that it really well my bag, The North Carolina was called the right profile. We were put out a record we'd signed a deal with Aristotle and moved to New York, but then, while we were in pre production on that first record, I quit the closer I was getting to the rock star dream, the less appealing it looked and I went cold turkey. I lost track of pretty much everybody I knew from then including worn scenes. I heard. Was it he to eventually parted ways with his band, which was probably pretty complicated because his band was run by his big brother
James now. At that point I would not have been surprised if I'd heard that warrants aims came to a bad ending because he was pretty. How shall we say this yellow but of Icarus Adam? He really want to get close to the sun, but he pulled up just in time. His wings did not melt, which is good news for him for me and especially for anyone who cares about Tom, petty wide, petty want. You two were let you write a book about him so The idea of a book came up. He said Here's how it would happen. It's not goes written, it's not co written! It's not authorized! It's your boy. And I said why not authorized, and he said when I see authorized on a book. I know it's bullshit, it's whitewashed.
so you write it. All I ask, is the opportunity to read it on its finished and respond to that, which I feel the need to respond to. With any guarantee of your changing and are not even she said. I can't tell you what then, or what's out there. Just you give me space to respond if I feel the need to respond. So this is not typical. He basically he's relinquishing control with access however, with full access. I was never denied an interview. There was never a question. I asked that he did not answer and I think it was he's somebody who has been quite private at times pretty reclusive, and there I was telling his story life's, authors heroines. Yes, this drug stage right, yeah, yeah stage fright fan
following a pardon- you know a band going through real turmoil There is something very primal going on. As I went through these pages. Veins first remembers hearing petty on the radio as a kid back in Boston in eighteen. Seventy six, the BBC and played breakdown veins, grew up listening to Josh White Records and PETE Seeger records and lead belly your favorite Tom, petty song. If you can it's difficult to say what my favorite Tom, petty song is because it's it's a shifting category, but I would say today that, from the first record song. The wild on forever is my favorite really. Why that one, when We were talking Tom, petty started, going in
to early failed romance these are the romances. There were happening up in his head that night. In the material world. He talked about what, young woman named Cindy in particular, who for a minute there. He thought something might happen and he really never forgot her and he said to me she's in more songs. Then you would ever realise, and he mentioned the song, even the losers, from damage torpedoes.
in about a night that they came together and in the morning she said. That's all there is, and I went back into the records and you could begin to speculate where else Cindy was appearing and I think even the wild one forever is absolutely a sindhi song and there's a there's. An a Two it zones, met petty many many years before this book would even begin to happen in the nineteen eighties, petty and heart breakers already big on their way to huge z, Then the Del Fuego were in their minds on exactly the same path. We first met Tom, petty when we were doing a three run at the Roxy, which is on the sunsets trip, in LOS Angeles, its legendary we're doing three nights.
in every night. From the stage we would say we hope Tom Petty comes down. We were unencumbered and being Tom Patty fans and on the second night a woman by the name of Alison Reynolds who became my girlfriend came back stage and said. In fact, I know Tom Paddy and I want to see if he can come down tomorrow night, and so we thought great night. Three he's gonna show up his meal and then we can. We take a victory lap. We have achieved what we wanted to achieve and the next night young, nothing. The shows or over- and I was in my hotel room- the adjoining room actually to the Base Clarence there is the usual party after the show debauchery of all the most expected kinds and the other
on rings in my room- and it was time petty- and he said he was, are. You could make the show and invited us out to his house the next night- and we sat was Tom, petty, I thinking it is viewed as a some amusement and we looked like a rock and roll and had seen a lot of those so you ended up by a while later opening for him. Yet yet he he came and he saying on one of our songs on our third recording and shortly after that brought us out on a summer tore which is about three Tor I looked back up. The ins joined the photos read out a high school whose seventeen, the Del Fuego us as a ban.
started before I was a member, so it initially it was at Oberlin College. Had three students put together a ban playing rock and roll covers. Now I was away at boarding school and I would sneak out open my black the mask and Ngos after hours, and I had a friend who was a what they call a town. And he drew me to Boston and we gotta shows- and I just had to be back to boarding school by sun up and I fell in love with that, seeing I didn't have any ambitions to be a part of it so much but The brother asked me to join the bandwidth I was getting toward graduation and was just it was convened that I hadn't filled out any college applications. I didn't have a plan b. So when he said you wanna be a my band, I was. I was all
over it, and I was already invested in that that world that he was in how is your guitar playing and that point when he asked me to join the band. I said yes to joining. and then asked him what instrument of employers- and he said Here- You'Ll- be the guitar player and we went to a music store and we bought a guitar for me to play and he rode out some cords on a piece of paper and a couple. Songs, Everley brother Bird dog got me a copy of the rolling stones now and early rolling stones down with Brian Jones on it and said, study this and Three months later, I was in the band and my first gig was just a couple weeks later:
Six months after that, we had a record deal their first record in nineteen. Eighty four was called the longest day. It did sound a little bit like early rolling stones. I met the way, goes on their tour for that record. They were playing in a bar in Greensborough North Carolina, we're backstage between their two sets just hang out and in walks the guitarist Niels Lufkin, whose playing with Bruce Springsteen's banned at the time, apparently was playing the Greensborough Colosseum the next night and then a few minutes later in walks Bruce himself. Now the goes invite Bruce meals to join them on stage for a couple. Songs at the end of the Franco set seem like the natural thing to do, and then, when we stepped back out of the dressing room, it was as if everyone in that room had called five people who came down here fast in this is pre internet. So It was viral without the technology that makes it easy to go viral. Am we went up on this day
edge, and we did stand by me and a thing on sloop Bianca hang on sloppy and I just turn ground to my aunt and turn the volume down to zero and. really I just watched and then you know, how would I remember that night. I remember that night because for the next two years, the first question in every interview was what was it like them play with Bruce bring steam, and then I realized that when brew came down to play that show In many ways he was doing us a great favour. Giving us this expire but on another level we became his missionary and I don't want to reduce his good spirit to a business move, but I saw the power of what he did, because it wasn't just in interviews. I
on the story of Bruce playing with us. So many times it was like It was a one man, promotion machine for Bruce Springsteen, so There were a lot of bans around then, and there are now and you guys, Del Fuego, even though you didn't become a huge ban, became a pretty big ban. A really alive couple banned, a well reviewed band with good songs and good performance, energy and all that What was it like to be? ride, and did you recognise that you were in the majority of bans at China, where it happened that well in that fast say we got big enough so that it started to her dial. I don't look back and think of it as a particularly fun time. I look.
I think it was an invaluable education, but it was not the kind of fun. I would have but I was getting into and I think if you're young in a near you're in the business of dreams. You're always look looking at the guy who's got just a little bit more than you and your measuring yourself in relation to that And you always come up the loser, suddenly, I think, Maybe that was just us, but I think my brothers, I like that. I thought like and so you always felt like another great, we sold three hundred and fifty thousand records, but we don't have a gold rapid and that's where the party being kins we were held ban.
on becoming rock and roll stars in the end, I think not necessarily flattering thing to say, but that's what that's what we wanted. We were out to get as big as we could possibly get. Why do you think? That's not flattering because the inner in culture there. Some sense of we do it for the music. So how long did you play the dove wake us? It was three record's five years in human years. That's about fifty and and what happened at the end at the end, I went to my brother and said larger piece of the creative pie and now I want a meaning like a rice on through them. Yeah right and I had been writing they had given him things, but The band never tried any of my songs.
Towards the end, when you were frustrated that your songs, getting an airing was relationship like, overall, with your brother, we were just tragically repressed MRS the problem in any relationship, marriage or are banned. Whatever. If you're not sharing the dreams you have in your head with the people with whom you are in close proximity, you're entering dysfunction I think we were so afraid of our own dreams and so afraid of the failure of not realising those dreams that we just in talk about it, and we went straight to the bar tender. yes We don't wake us have by now put out their third record,
Radio was an excited about it. The critics weren't excited about it. Everybody is looking at it like. not entirely sure what you're trying to be here with pressure that you're trying to be something We just don't know what it is, and so the rubber it wasn't doing while em it turned out that Tom Parry, the heart breakers had just put out their record and it wasn't doing as well. expected. So this tour, where we are opening up for the heart breakers, came to be called the rock and roll care Van and right in between the two acts, another band does added the George satellites? who had a number one song with keep your hands to yourself and so I remember watching them just be having this summit experience. They were a great rock and roll
and so you played how many shows roughly with petty and then lose, is around three months show Anna was it I don't know fun thrilling gruelling. It was the thing that should then fun them was girl. That's the worst when you some people say that the key, Happiness in life is just to me or exceed expectations. So the lower. You can set your expectations that better you are, and once you have high expectations, your screwed one of them challenges. For me- and this is it was so obvious that the dream was coming true that I was afraid to say he things, anyone about how it actually fell and how it actually fell. I was just in a level of disappointment and that experienced it was. It was hard to get, ass. I was doing a lot of medicating my feelings I felt like I was on this.
Task, tor and somehow I was, I had an earned. I wasn't worthy of it and no that's a hard feeling the live with for three months. In retrospect. It's not that surprising me that I wasn't Ben too much longer after that I was. I was uncomfortable in the world when veins quit the band. He was twenty two years old. My first ambition when I left so Del Fuego as well, is to create something that would show the world that I was superior to my brother, meaning a record resume I've been on a new of no other Peter, I'm gonna be bull fighting but as warns and soon found out once you the band you are not in the band after I left. The doleful goes the last time I saw
petty was at his Christmas party saw had quit the band, but I was still out in LOS Angeles and had been invited to his Christmas party, and I showed up Tom had given me beetles magazine, and I heard during the course of the evening that George Harrison was in the building in Rwanda. A beetle comes onto the grounds, there's a murmur that passes through the. the group that assembled- and I heard that murmur and I went to Tom then wife Jana, said Jane. An autograph hound type, but he gave me this be magazine, and I heard the George Harrison's here. He took me down the hallway and opened the door to what was Tom's office and.
Did in such a way that it probably to the people in the room looked like. I ran in there, but on my side it felt like I've been pushed him and in that room behind the dusk was George Harrison to one side was Tom, petty the other side was Jeff LAN and Teddy's guitar, Fire might Campbell they're all playing such a three fifths of the tree, going well berries. Playing a song and they stop, because this it just ran in the room and George looked at me and said it's Brian Johnson, back from the dead and then he started playing the song about a dandy, because those wearing this unit was the aid Therefore, it is heavily embroidered. Jacket was all too much and I was a dandy of sorts and so is playing the song, everybody seven of the bit of alive. At all events and I'm holding this beetle magazine and at the end of it he George takes
bags any signs for every beetle because they learned one another signatures so that they could sign Anna Tom Petty sees the level of discomfort. This is like to good and to offer same time. He's like it's! Ok, you know you can hang out, listen sit down and I said no and and I left, and that was the last time I saw Tom Petty for quite a while. It sounds like some greek trash the where you'd crossed boundaries, kind of intentionally but kind of even though you had done it intentionally newer. Ok with being on the other side in me, ITALY, someone recognise, use not being part of the tribe anymore. Yes, just prior to this, I had had a moment in patties office, just the two of us, and we were talking in
and he asked so. You know you're, not in your rock and roll band anymore. What are you going to do and I was giving him the plan, which is to stay in LOS Angeles and put a new band together and to take over the world? and he just looked at me and said this is a minor bands come from you should go. It was so deflating for me because I had another story about what gonna happen to me next and looking back out, but he was teaching something that he had learned. You know Tom Parry, the hard breakers didn't come from LOS Angeles, they came from gains in Florida and they did their coming there and I only went out to LOS Angeles when they were at a price. advanced state of becoming so what time
He was telling me was, go home, find the thing see if it holds water, so veins went home, wrote HANS made demos sent em out. He got interest from a major label, he's pretty things were gonna work out now. We just had to be patient. Wait for that record deal. Meanwhile, there was a girl in New Orleans aright. He moved to New Orleans for a girl. What was your ambition in your head of that point? Would you think you'd end up doing? I thought I was gonna have sex with her, I met a long letter about. I appreciate and short term view I've. I thought I was going to New Orleans to just wait to make a record, Didn't you made an end? Nothing came of it eventually. I had to grace reality and get a job, and I got a job working as a bicycle mechanic outside the french court and
Now it has been like a year and a half since we ve been playing. square garden. Opening up for Tom Petty I remember a vivid scene. I mean this bike shop. My hands are covered in Greece and I'm trying to fix this rear derail or on a Schwinn and the New Tom, petty song comes on the radio and I'm just looking at the Greece on my hands and It was one of those look how far I've fallen kind of moment, is a little bit more than the young. person that I was could handle, but I've just been riding on a tour bus parking. Next to that, guy's tore bus and he's on the radio and I'm trying to fix. This reared rail or on a schwinn sensing.
His girlfriend might break up with him because of his lack of ambition. He thought about going to college one problem. His car had just been flattened during a storm, so when it came to playing with this idea of going to college. I knew I had to walk so I took out a map and I looked for university icons and the closest one lay all university, and I didn't know the two lane, was really like twenty feet. Further, I was, just thinking. I don't want to have to walk too far, so I went into the admissions office and said: here's my situation, I'm trying to stay in this relationship. I only want to take a couple class and I dont really have time to go through the application process, and I just took two classes. I took her history of philosophy.
And a women's literature. Thinking that this would make me smarter and more attractive to women and sir, I remembered the end of these two classes. The woman Carol Siegel was, teacher of the women's literature class- and I think she reckon as I had really fallen in love with the classroom and she said me down the war. I just want to give you some advice: don't do what I did and I wasn t quite sure where she was going with instead Don't go from here all the way through to a phd in. I almost like so my tongue. I was gonna like I liked your class, but You get over yourself like Phd and, of course, I went through Charlie eighty eighty
where'd you get your phd in and where the Phd I got from the University of Rochester in visual and cultural studies. I really worked hard. I worked pretty quickly but I was reshaped my my mind. The same mind I had going in, but it was. It was retooled has given a new plasticity, it was given opportunities to your thing. Differently in relation to different subject areas. That was my process of becoming so yeah I'll, be hard to see the kid in the band getting to the other side of that. But twelve years, however, that's a pretty long time too Ray Jager yourself coming up on me-
radio headed Tom, petty triumph in an industry known to eat its young by emulating the heroes of his favorite movies westerns, and then you get the cowboy who works with his own set of values, is on laws is operating just outside the system, and crew the idea warning here should, everyone be required at some point to join a band. I think you're, absolutely right. My most important agree with five years in raw. Tom, petty with the heart breakers. more often than not has turned into one of the most enduring songwriters an performers in the history of rock and roll, which not many people would have predicted at the outset. He was part,
the big and vibrant music scene and gains Will Florida, but petty was hardly a superstar in waiting, among other potential detriment. He was on the laid backside: you'd, never catch him breaking loose, like Elvis Presley or greening like Jagger you when he sang, bear the raised his voice, yeah. There was a sneer and singing sometimes finally a snarl, but for the most part he had the effect of a teenager who sits in the back of the class and leather jacket, picking his nails not wasting his breath on anyone. He wasn't much of a student, wasn't athletic at all. So look
Adam, you might have got the impression he really didn't care about. Something is bourgeois as success and you would have been wrong. Well Might Campbell. The guitar flair and in the heart breakers is says no one's as ambitious as Tom Petty and he goes on to say thank God. Somebody was you you ve got to have that guy and that's one of the ingredients that goes into the bandleader in an american Rock and roll the heartbreak hers are our rolling stones their hitting forty years together now, so you had a ban leader who is able to pull off that magic trick and part of it
later to ambitions warns. Aids is new book. Petty tells the whole story. When you look back at gains Ville Florida in after the Beatles have been on Ed Sullivan, it was much like other town, where you had all these garage bans coming into being but in gainfully also had guys peeling. and going in having big careers. So as time passes locally, they had the tropics in the tropics, a hot Florida band and they end up being up there with Dick Clark on TV. It's like wow, that's possible. Then you have the on the brothers, then you see Bernie Leaden, going out to California, flying burrito brothers. Then Don Felder follows him and they form the Eagles, so the mess
there is. This could be you, it's the Beatles message carried through locally and that kind of gives Tom Betty's ambition lift off, and he talks about meat are really getting the message from DAWN Felder before Non Felder went out to join the Eagles Felder says doom. You know. If we keep plant cover, songs, we're not gonna, be making records, people don't make records. cover, songs and petty, really hears it, and I think there is no turning back from that point once he sees the power of song, write it It was in a series of bands of the early years. The latest one known as mud. Crutch gets a record deal and relocate to allay. They worked with the producer, Denny Cordell. He gives them this idea to do a reggae feel too the song depots.
And it ends up in patties view. It's like a novelty wrapper. They were trying to figure out what they were The record didn't sell and what they were soon change, petty the means operator and lead singer, got his name above the title. The first out was just called Tom, petty and the heart breakers. The first record died before us a success, and then it hits in England, not in the states, then only because there was a promo man who listen to it and said I can't believe this record stiffed, but they get that first top forty single with breakdown and by the time it hits they have to be making the second record, and so there are thrown very quick
into the album cycle and that's where petty lives most of his life right, the songs cord. The songs release the songs and support them right, the song record the songs, and so he comes into this city. action where there's always somebody with their hand out looking from one songs as the ban that more and more successful petty was invited to reassess how the spoils were being divided. It was his band as he started it, it was an equal split among the band members and that they're doing all the work, keeping the band together. Success starts to happen and everybody in the bands making as much as everybody else, and they have manager come into work with their existing manager, Elliot Roberts and Only Roberts was it. time managing Bob Dylan,
and Neil Young and Johnny Mitchell Anne Elliot looks at the situation and goes to Tom and says if you keep up with this equal split among Their members, you're gonna get so resentful that you'll have a band. He said now is the time to address it as bandleader. It's not me. Split anymore on the band leader on the songwriter, I'm getting a bigger piece of the pie. It's going to be a highway. popular decision, but it's gonna, allow you to keep your band together counter into in that way and petty goes with Elliot Roberts, but petty doesn't go to the band and tell them he has Elliot do it and it turns out that that's a pretty typical move for petty, go
for a great. He was good at delegating, especially the tough stuff you honor. Of that totally fair. I mean, I think, petty starling go. This is business right. I mean, I think, the band that is going to stay together is probably not the bandits doing. Group hugs and high, I think one another back staying the group that stays together is Are you gonna be the one that sets up appropriate boundaries? Petty also does that, even though they were selling a lot of records, they weren't making much money from songwriting royalties, for he signed the kind of deal that most young artists sign, which involve giving your publishing away, and you re entertaining Lee. I mean in a tragic way that he thought publishing meant like published. Some stray easy
without it meant song, was a close. The ownership of the song yeah he he didn't know when when they came to look at this later on in court, he said he saw something under duress and that to me is close to the true swine, because it's the rest in the wide, since its Somebody sitting there and you know there is a pressure to sign that thing. In its the pressure of I want to change my situation. They know. I want the dream to come true, it's not when musicians do their clear thinking when their signing their first deal very young again, as I said before, but it's that head full of dreams effect this. This is an end this tree that they know the next young persons coming
and they know that person has a dream and they're, not scrutinise a contract and even if they did they could. Let kids get lost because there's another fish, the in line behind them and said? all of them are talented, so is the Company in the wrong signing deals with a company makes the bulk of the money, and the band is now times in debt. Why should record companies be the exception to the rules of capitalism, so petty fought back? It turned into a lawsuit between him and record label. Meanwhile, he and the ban were recording the record that would become damned the torpedoes petty was worried. the label would seize the tapes. One thing that that I'll love about Tom, petty is he's. One of these american kids grew up on westerns.
and now. What is that one is the western western is situation in which you ve got characters who are making up their own laws in the face of the law, so you got the sheriff, but sheriff, is often against stiff, ineffective character, and then you got the cowboy is operating just outside the system. Petty love Western, when it came petty finding himself in a music business where he, wasn't getting compensated ass. He should have yet the record company was making a lot of money on his back. I think he started to think like a cowboy and Ellie Roberts as managers, giving them the money to record but they're doing it out, I'd of the system. Nobody supposed to know about it so at the end of recording day, they hide their tapes. They give him
bugs wide AL who's, the roadie rotti from the beginning, up to the present and it's a cowboy character, This system is at work and for us so we're gonna work just outside of society Mauritania is with him: declaring bankruptcy he's recording his new album and their hiding the tapes at night. It's it's not what you you hear of typical rock and roll story, but to me this is a kid who grew up thinking about cowboy so petty he's been in bans for fifty years. Right and you're you ve, been in bans a while sometime, more intensely and not ours, bans for shorter time, the new, but still for a bunch of years, reading your book, my big take away
from it was that being in a ban and all that that entails all the economics, all the psychology, all the anthropology see all the everything In a way lake. went training for the rest, your life, I think you're you're, absolutely right and I will say to people at talking about my life in the university. I told them what degrees I got told them of my dissertation Amazon and then I said, but my most important agree with five years in rock faith, and that's where I learned the most. I needed got the university to process that, but the most important partner education was playing in Iraq and all ban. So I've often harboured this fantasy that America would institute a kind of mandatory Rock n Roll Service Clinton used to talk about, like
peace corps. You know or some kind of service in israel- Everybody has to go join the idea if the israeli defence forces, which becomes binding things, so I can't think of, anybody in the world who, whom may even come close to approving of my fantasy Mandy other than you. You think it's a good idea to have a thing: it's the only hey MACE book. Congratulations I am a sucker for reinvention stories, so I hope you can appreciate why I am so appreciative of war in zones is reinvention as an academic and an author. He also still makes solar records by the way and is big brother. Danzig means also pulled off a beautiful reinvention that fifteen years ago, Dan started playing music for kids, but great kids, music.
I'm original and some pulled from the fringes, fringes of the American Song Book now, the band is known as Danzig Means and friends he's gonna Grammy Award for music and even oh I'm way way older than his intended audience. The power of good music is such that when I'm far away from home on a plane, maybe and missing my family there's a dancing's recording. I always reach for it's an old song called I was born almost ten thousand years ago. It is the weirdest history lesson in history, I don't know why, but makes me smile every time I hear it and I hope you find a smile and it too,
I was almost ten thousand years ago and there is nothing in the world and a subpoena Moses play and ring the roses, and I'm here to link the gases dance for economics. Radio is produced by when my c studios and W productions. Today's episode was produced by catch him, a highly which and urban ganja. Our staff also includes Christopher Worth. Gregg resolve ski J cower Merit Jacob, Caroline English. and Allison Hockenberry. If you want more for economics, radio, you can subscribe to our Pont cast on Itunes or go to free economics, dot, com or you'll find our entire podcast archive and lots of extra, including
a song by my old banned the rate profile, songs, called cosmopolitan love, sick blues and its at the end of the blog post. For this August episode coming up on the next for economics, radio, what happens when a bunch of economists set up an experimental preschool to help underpin
forming kids. He was one of the most difficult things. I think we could try to how successful was their effort, be, I think it's a mixed bag and why preschool may already be too late to attack the education gap. It's really in those first three years of life when a huge amount of the physical brain is bout. That's next time on for economics, radio, Hither, Stephen Dublin again, one more thing if you like for economics, radio, I think you'll also like the latest,
sort of people. I mostly admire the podcast hosted by my free economic, spreading co, author, Steve Levin. Here's what it sounds like a guest today, Sue bird. She collects championships she's forward W Nba championships, five euro, the best about championships too, and see a championships for International Basketball Federation, world cups and four olympic gold medals. I'd love to talk about the economic, the professional basketball. So the average player in the NBA made eight point three million dollars into the nineteen and in the W Nba the average with eighty thousand is frustrating just now. I think. Actually, if you look at twenty twenty. Our minimum is now higher, but we all but in the same amount of work. So is it a heart
swallow knowing that somebody else's work is being rewarded at times by I live in reality. I understand business and economics. Some people look at us as like charity. The goal will help them out like an it in a terrible. What sense? Not unlike this business investment way everything do look at us as an investment immediately its talked about how we don't make money, and it's like fifty years about the NBA did either, but people are willing to make that investment get behind it and growing its people. I most we admire you can find it on your favorite podcast, app either Stephen dubbing again one more thing: if you liked the episode you just heard, we think you like something else in the friggin hammocks radio network. Look for this interview on the new podcast
people, I mostly admire with host Steve Level, but my guest today Sue bird. She collects championships she's for double, and be eighty of Egypt's five Euro League best about championships to end C h: championships for International Basketball, federation, world cups and four olympic Gold medal. I would I think that, in order to be the player you are, you would have to be a person who acted gets better under pressure rather than worth, while. Obviously there are people, who are known for hitting big shots. Are known for playing well in big games that exists for sure, but I think we kind of frame it there. Why it's not that you're gonna make nine out of ten. It's that you might make three at ten. Somebody else is making zero it's at, whose most successful, it's like who's, the most successful The least successful that is, people
mostly admire you can find it on your favorite podcast app subscribe now, so that you don't miss single episode.
Transcript generated on 2021-01-30.