« Freakonomics Radio

410. What Does COVID-19 Mean for Cities (and Marriages)?

2020-03-26 | 🔗

There are a lot of upsides to urban density — but viral contagion is not one of them. Also: a nationwide lockdown will show if familiarity really breeds contempt. And: how to help your neighbor.

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For economics, radio sponsored by bear progress is a human and mentioned we look at our world and imagine how to make it better. It bear scientists. Developers working with farmers to help shape the future of agriculture like farms were crops and wildlife thrive together in new digital. Tools that allow farms to use less water, land and energy it science for a better life from Bear More about how there is shaping the future of agriculture. Visit crop science, dot, bear dot com. FR. Radio sponsored by bear progress, is a human and mentioned we look at our world and imagine how to make it better. It bear scientists. Developers, working with farmers to help shape the future of agriculture like farms were crops and wildlife thrive together in new digital, tools that allow farms to use less water, land and energy. It science for a better life from bear
more about how there is shaping the future of agriculture visit crop science dot bear dot com. No need for long preamble. Today, we all know what's going on with covered nineteen, so today, on the show will focus on the economic damage. At the individual level, and what economists says is the best immediate response. This is the time to write unconditional checks and in this era of block downs and very close quarters, will ask psychologists, whether familiarity really breeds contempt, and if so, what to do about it. You know, I think, the most him One thing is to have humility: humility is recognising that you could be incomplete or wrong very hard to do and how to help our most vulnerable neighbours. So it's really important that I can quickly find the best plumber, the best babysitter if we find the loss,
at from stature and Gunnar productions. This is great economics, radio, gas. It explores the inside of everything. Here's your home Stephen definite at glades. As an economist who teaches at Harvard their wonderful things about being proximity, other human beings, we learn from other few means we can work for them, but they're all, demons that come with density and the worst of these demons is contagious disease Glaser studies, a lot of economic issues, but he's got one particular obsession. My whole life's work has been true. To understand cities and how they work and how
but they sometimes fail to work. In two thousand eleven. He published a book called triumph of the city, how our greatest invention, our greatest invent He calls a city how our greatest invention makes us richer, smarter, greener, healthier and happier, but in the age of covert. Nineteen cities also have capacity to make us sicker, as it turned the we're talking. New York is responsible for almost a third of the total case In America, so it certainly seems, as if densities continue we need to do its worst. If you'd look back historically, these things have been rocking cities for millennia right, we think about the plague of Athens for thirty BC. We think about the plague of Justinian, which, almost a thousand years later it hit constant noble. If you look at sort of the entire european medieval period, there's a sense in which
cities are not particularly safe places. As late as the time of Shakespeare S, London, you ve got a six year. Life expectancy loss by living in London relate to the rest of England. That was by the way, still true in New York City in nineteen hundred and what's going on in cities to create this danger, the two things going, one of which are the seas, are connected globally and secondly, the cities are dense when you get to him, and so the cities are the ports of entry. For the new disease, whether it's the rats carrying the fleas or a traveler from who hon caring virus and correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe we have now the largest percentage of the human population history in urban areas that right, certainly so we have had no earlier spite in urbanization followed by huge decline, I mean I'm going way back to the large cities of Spain and Egypt, and so on, Are you worried that covered nineteen,
and the role that urbanization may play in its spread will turn the tide against your beloved cities. Of course, even worse, I'm worried that it should turn the tide against my beloved settings right I mean it's not as if I sit here drink over nineteen is. The important thing is to continue making the case for life mean these demons. Identity are very real. Stork Lee, effective governments have always been able to tame them, although sometimes it took many decades to make that possible. I have at least the hope that An effective government can contain the pandemics in the future if we had managed to lock in China earlier if he had managed to get more research on vaccines at this each earlier, so I tend to be an optimist. If we can manage to get effective enough, governments I mean hundred Fifty years ago, cities were universally killing fields and for most of my if they most certainly have not been, and that of course required massive amounts of public investment America's,
isn't how's responding as much on clean water at the start of the twentieth century, as the federal government spending on everything, except at the Post office and the army, but it was some that we manage to do. I guess I remain hopeful that we can continue to do it, but, let's not you know, let's not ignore the fact that pandemic is an excellent the threat to high density living based around face to face contact so it's relatively early days in the pandemic, at least in the? U s- and we don't know what the damage will look like in terms of loss of life, but the economic damage is already coming into view suddenly and intensely. So, I'd like to hear your working on that, especially the economic damage to individuals and families that damage is not going to be evenly distributed. Is it acceptable So if either you have substantial assets or you have
a large, highly stable employer Europe Natural worries during this shut down I really relatively small, if you're living hand to mouth and your employer to shut down and all of a sudden you ve got no income coming in, and you sure got a couple of kids to pay for his well, and you can't just move into your parents house, because maybe they're on the other side of the country or maybe a nursing home and then you're looking at just an absolute terrifying world. How can you Compare this situation to past economic calamities, weathered pandemics or war. Reserve financial collapses? I mean the last sort of pandemic of scale is really nineteen. Nineteen, the influenza, which but at the same time as the great recession, I dont know we ve ever sorted out, what role that pandemic played in creating the recession. There were many other things,
we're going on when you think of the fact that one fifth of the American Labour Force is in retail, trade, leisure and hospitality. Those are the sectors that are absolutely on this front line. And so I could easily imagine that we start seeing you know joblessness numbers that look a lot more like the great depression than anything we've seen before. Had these jobs are ones which you know this seems like they were the future. Now what, if all of a sudden we're terrified of face to face, and Where did those jobs go to and while there may be a few jobs in delivering the Amazon grocery products that we then turn to that's a trick, of what we had in the thirty two million Americans work and these big industries, and if this is a permanent shift away from the face to face economy, is one that will have catastrophic impact on those Americans with less formal schooling. Ok, I would like you to walk through quickly what you see the current aid package. Federal aid.
Package looking like it seems that there is a fundamental choice to make which is? Are you gonna help from the top down meaning fund the firms in the end? trees at most in trouble, and hopefully they will take care of their employees and customers. Are you gonna fund from the bottom up individuals, so most of the time I am not a fan of universal basic income. You know six months ago, two months ago, my view was that it was crucial to get more Americans working incommunicado, Letty bothered me much less in the rise of primates, male joblessness. The fact that you know when I was born fifty two years ago, only less than one in twenty primates meals were jobless. From most of the last fifteen years, more than three and twenty primates males have been jobless. I think of this as being sort of an absolute catastrophic thing for America, and so that's where I was before covert nineteen now, all of a sudden, covert, ninety,
It strikes us, and none of that applies in the case of the financial crisis or any sort of normal recession. What you're trying to do is to shore up the financial system and then make sure people are still spending make sure people are still working make sure that the economic system functions as well as it possibly can during a pandemic? That's not what you're trying to do at all. What you're trying to do as you try to make sure everyone goes home weed. Care if nobody's work it. We want those people to be at home, and so this is time to write, people, checks and you're. Not writing people checks the way that you would be during a standard recession with the idea that this is gonna not some stimulus and make sure the dollar's further system. That's not what you doing, you're, just insuring them you're, making sure that the mom who worked as a waitress, who has a couple of kids at home and who has no idea if she's ever getting your job back, you just making sure that you can put food on the table. If you, Ask yourself what you're gonna do to eliminate the short ones suffering, let's in
sure those Americans, whose jobs have vanished for the foreseeable future- and this is the time to write unconditional checks now. The question is: why make it unconditionally think my preferred model is one in which everyone gets the checks. But let's say you come around next this tax season. If you're earning more than two hundred thousand dollars new spent that check you gonna pay a hundred percent tax on that check. If you're any between one and two hundred k, you gonna spend fifty percent, but if your earnings are less than a hundred k than them free unclear, and why would you do it that way, instead of withholding checks now from anyone earning two hundred care more, I just do what anyone to think about whether buddy to get out just get it out right now, let's sorted out when we aren't all terrified of a pandemic, let sorted out later. One thing that is clear is that just the experience between
rich and poor during this pandemic seems to me even more unequal than the usual experience gap between rich and poor. So I think it some sense. This is just an order of magnitude, more terrifying. At the lower end of the income distribution than the high end of income distribution, I believe very strongly in relief right now, policies that stop economic again from spiralling out of control. So having some sort of a moratorium on foreclosures is perfectly sensible doing a few, slow down any sort of bankruptcy proceedings for anyone to go companies. Probably the right thing. Let's talk about ITALY for a minute. Let's start with a history of the quarantine So, as far as I know, this is a venetian responds to the black death there, forcing boats for people some cases to stay for forty days has caught and it's an attempt to sort of stop the disease.
Entering into the area- and so you really do- need a state that is strong enough to actually enforce these types of quarantine for them to be effective, and I think that's one of the things when you look at let's say the modern italian experience versus the modern chinese experience that the chinese government's just much more effective and imposing a locked down or a quarantine than its modern italian, equivalent to be other than the virtues of a more authoritarian government to dictate a quarantine other than that. Why do you think The italian situation has gotten so much worse than really anywhere. At this moment, I was struck by the number of people who were cheating. In some ways they weren't cheating is maybe too strongly they weren't. They were still shaking hands. You know they weren't due and proper mass. They weren't following the quarantines. The sense in which many Italians are sceptical about orders given by their government. There's not a serious Cultural Norma followed them, perhaps for good reason, but certainly that makes things harder and where's many
aces its right to you ignore nonsensical orders from government during a pandemic having a government that your trust is really valuable so, with covered nineteen, there's, potentially critical shortage of hospital beds and equipment. Now in the? U S at least Governments are typically not very involved in health care facilities away. They are in schools and police and fight apartments and transportation so on, and I'm curious whether you think that may be a shortcoming, a blessing and what this pandemic may change the way we think about the relationship between government and hospitals. So it's interesting. Historically, the line was often quite blurry, as it was with universities right, and they have certainly evolved to be a clear distinction between public and private, where the public hospitals they have to take the poor patients they had to take emergency rooms and whereas
not for profit. Private hospitals have evolved in one economists, words into something more like doctors, cooperatives. So I think this lot like about that system, but of course there are larger issues as well. No individual hospital is set up to deal with the catastrophic risk of a pandemic, but I think there's a good case to be made. Where are, we decide, is going to be the Eu S. His chief pandemic office are going forward and, I think, is a reasonable view for having a pandemic tsar in the country. After this, such a person would want to think about how is that you're going to actually deliver a lot more capacity to hospitals, because I think it's fair, likely that any individual hospitals, where do it, because you're trying to deal with fifty different things every day that are painfully regime, which you are not stop to think about. How am I going to deal with if all of a sudden, a once in a generation had that it shows up if we compare military preparedness and the dollars connected to that with pandemic preparedness and the dollars connected with that? My guess is that it would be an incalculably large
Fred, now that we ve actually got a pandemic that threatens to really attacked the route of modern economic civil society does. This seem like terribly excited planning or does it seem like well, the world throws things at you and you have to adjust and and adjust we shall now I mean I. I certainly agree with the spirit of your question. I mean, I think the word enough warning signs Sars seventeen year go swine flu, two thousand and nine murderers. Eight years ago, a bowler over the years there were more than enough warning signs that something like this was real possibility and if we had had any ability to look forward to this, we should have been spending radically. More money than we spending so the comparison to military spending is apt, but either it makes sense to compare our spending on pandemic preparedness with our spending on routine medical expenditures without spending on Medicare? We as a nation do not understand
the on healthcare. We spend an enormous amount of money on healthcare, but what we spend on are the sort of routine medical business of the country were set up to do that. We do not set up to spend money for the risk that has happened for the pandemic, that has shown up and That's the crucial thing going forward is that we need to recognise that this thing has the capacity trillions and trillions of dollars of damage, and so it's worth, while spending at least billions and billions of dollars to actually protect ourselves. Mitigate two risks with all the changes are happening right now in response to coordinating a lot more remote working, a lot more remote education, alot of people, considering, if all the things that they have done, on a daily basis. Kind of his habit are really. So valuable, I can imagine all kinds of shifting of supply and demand and real estate, among other things, if more people are working from home and so on. So I'm just grace. If you look down the line of any possible
over linings that you see so is. It depends a little about whether or not you think the currently whirl making a bunch of mistakes about interacting with each other in travelling, and if you think that will make you a lot of mistakes that we might realise. Those things are mistake: I think for some of us. Maybe it will teach us to prove somebody unnecessary trips and our lives. That's good! I think there is a sense in which, if I think there's a single political dividend, This certainly reminds us that having a really functional public sector is really valuable that in fact you don't actually just wanted government that's about your taking from, you can get together. There are actually real jobs for government like preventing pandemics, and you really want a government is actually capable of doing that and to the extent to which voters in this election and I'm not saying where that should lead them and who they vote for, but decent, which voters realised that actually it's really. Not about which person you think is being on your team, but really about who's gonna, do the most capable job of producing a government that can actually protect all of Amerika
That would be a really salutary outcome, so many the recent viral outbreaks and pandemics- maybe all of them, have originated in non human species, nonhuman animals and their pretty strong argument that without the environmental destruction, that's a product of capitalism, that this would be happening, much less, if at all than you know, that's what's driving these animal borne diseases and pandemics. So I'm curious You are at least according to my reading a pretty strong, I'm no about dyed in the wool, but strong free marketer. How do you get the bounty of the free market without the destructive capacity of the environmental destruction. So how do you think about that balance it while you're actually right? I think there are tremendous virtues of capitalism. I think everything's about balance and a pure capitalist system is not one that will necessarily protect us against pandemic is not one that
Sally protect the environment. That does not mean that the right answer is some non capitalist system. It means that you need a public sector that protects just as we have a private sector the creates, and if we are worried about protecting the natural ecosystems, we need to have a public sector, the views that is clearly one of jobs and that it takes steps to do that. On the show. Last week we discussed the NASA. Imagery showed that air pollution in China fell so much during their covered nineteen lockdown. Many many more lives will be saved from cleaner air than will be lost directly, at least from coded nineteen. So how do you think trade offs like that. What is that suggest for policy going forward? Well, if we think that their that many lives have be saved by reductions, chinese air pollution than we are at a very bad place in terms of the policy ex ante
I was in India in December, and I was amazed by the deterioration in air quality in and around Delhi, the last three or four years again. You know it's important that we recognise it horrendous air quality that firms pollute is not fundamentally an indictment of the capitalist system. Its indictment of a government that doesn't protect people from the excess of the capitalist system- and we really do need robust policies that stop firms from over polluting, I think most appropriately deserve straight up pollution tax. But if you can't unemployment, that than other clean AIR act, type policies are necessary, but if that many lives can be saved and we really need to redouble our efforts as a planet to try and reduce the pollution that costs loss Let me ask you one more question about cities and pandemics. You spoke. A number of downsides infect as someone who happens, Live in New York City, they seem like a lot of downside. So thank you for emphasising those, but what
vantages to being in a city even during a pandemic, so you have hospitals, you have health care providers mean one the issues with lawns hospitals right now. Is there currently filled with people who got sick and outlying areas and then had to move to belong to be taken care of? So the fact that cities have sort of large pieces of health related infrastructure is clearly an acid. The fact there are lots of smaller provider, so nimble healthcare clinics that can take care of things quickly. Providers for food or other forms of services, so bright, now suburban lifeless, relatively good relative to high density urban living during the height of the pandemic. What if we now see a storm on top of it? What if all of a sudden you know large numbers of eastern suburb, start losing their electricity? It's one thing to be involved in lock down. If you actually can get all the electronics to work. If you
electronics he's working, it becomes a much worse story. Well, if that happens, I've got a spare cot somewhere for anybody that needs to migrate to New York, who's willing to put up with all the downsides of the city, and that goes for you and your family. If you can squeeze in a car, so you're welcome here coming up after the break the psychologist, Angela Duckworth, on how to best deal with the people you are shut in with so a great role model, for this will be right back. Everybody, I'm ticket Sumter and I'm an actress and most recently you can see me on ABC 6Ish. This is tyrande off and I'm the boss at Kevin Hart's, laugh out loud network and we the host of the sugar, a sweet space where we are she to indulge on topics we sometimes get left out of its face by four:
about brown man. This is a place of community where we want you to feel lots of love peace and laughed aloud I was pregnant, someone- those I oh when our hair, when I was in labour, I was like I was having a orgasm grow airs go now, some of you now somewhere baling made, you ve not actually had a like. This exists. We space I would like us to see ourselves and be ourselves: get ready to open up top, laugh even cry with our sweet should a. The ship is out now listen on stitches apple podcast, wherever you get your pat gas more and more government and public health officials are calling for Americans to distance themselves from others to stay home to live Any non essential interactions by this means All of us will be spending more time at home with families part
hers, roommates, often in close quarters. What be the long term results of all this indoor clustering. There already plenty of theories a baby boom nine months, hence a massive dick he's in workplace sexual harassment, since so many workplaces are closing. Perhaps an increase in domestic violence, Angela, Fourth is psychology professor and researcher at the University of Pennsylvania, Jostle wrote the book grit or the past few months. And I have been recording a series of cuban AIDS for new podcast. We plan to launch soon one topic that came up recently struck as particularly relevant in the era of covert nineteen locked out so here is my question. Yeah does familiarity red contempt, as the old saying goes
and assuming the answers that we sometimes it does, which I'm guessing is probably a correct answer. What can you do about it? Because here's a thing It seems a real paradox that we become contemptuous of the people whom we have the most familiarity with which we tend to be found the near ends- people we work with because contempt. But I dont want in those relationships. So it's always struck me as a kind of ah in human relations. If that's indeed the case, you think would be better to have contempt for people you didn't now, so if it's true what are some coping mechanisms so that I can feel warmth kindness and forgiveness etc toward the people that I am closest with yeah yeah, you want less contempt in your life
well, I'm happy to have contempt for people who are contemptible. Ok, but not your loved ones and we presume relation my loved ones are people that I dont want to feel condemned for, in fact, I've read literature, says the single biggest indicator. Of a failing. Marriage is a high level of contempt it. It's John Gottman right, regret. Very famous marriage psychologists calls it one of the four dark horsemen of divorce. There are three others, of course one is criticism. Another is different yes and then finally stonewalling. But I think Gottman has said that tempt is actually given. The number was you pointed out. It really is the harbinger of the end of relationship. I mean first, let's start with what contempt is right, so we all but the negative emotion, but it's different from anger. So when I'm in a fight with no, my husband, I can feel angry toward him right. I could also feel misunderstood. I can feel like using been
Erin our conversation, but contempt is different. Contempt is actually very close to the emotion of disgust. You're looking down on someone right, so it's a judgment without necessarily moral judgment. It could be an intellectual development. Is that it be right? I mean it's gotta, be one the most negative emotions you can feel about another person. So I do think that oh yeah rarity, can breathe contempt and there is some pretty respectable scientific research by Norton at Harvard and and others about circumstances under which? more. You get to know some thing or some one, the more contemptuous. You feel because you see the flaws here, because you know when you first get to know someone or something you know, there's a lot of ambiguity and so contempt really suggests a kind of certain t that, like I know who you are, and I don't like it right and actually there is this opposing process, its very well established and social science. You know the familiarity effect when you should
people little graphic images like little nonsense? Character is the more they see something the more. They like it. You know it's completely random, but people like things that are familiar so familiar, doesn't always breed contempt by the way we should say Mary breeds contempt. The idea sorted, originated with an ace up fable yeah, I'm the fastened the line, but it got reinterpreted added the modern aphorism, but here's the thing you can certainly feel contemptuous toward people you dont know, but do you think that it ever reaches the level of content that you might have with somebody. You do know when things are really falling apart. I don't know, maybe okay. So let me ask you this: how much of contempt do you think is reflected? In other words, I am ultimately disgusted her upset with it am I found myself and the reason I projected onto this person is because I can feel them.
Judging me. Judging me yeah I mean I think, there's some quote. I can't remember what is but there's something I can only see the flaws and other people that you feel about yourself. I think that the more use question might be because I think we all know what it feels like to feel contempt, and I think this was don't like the feeling of contempt, especially when it comes to our food shapes our family. Our romantic relationships, if you're trying to not have this dark horsemen on your doorstep, unlucky do, and you know I think so much of life is where you pay attention and the fact is that human attention is extraordinarily limited. In other words, cannot be answered. I would you say I was thinking about some of the fact that sea there you go. It's true, though you your mind can wander so, for example, when you're having conversation with your spouse, you can pay in to those little peccadilloes little like rough edges that you obsess about and Michael there you go again and that bias of attention
led to more contempt. But if you do the opposite, if you deliberately try to pay attention to the times where your spouse was funny, or section, eight or understanding or you know I like this exercise, the three blessings you go to bed and you think of three good thing. You could do a version of that with your relationship rethink like what are three things I liked about. Our interactions today on that basis. You in the opposite direction that Israel interesting and useful, I like that alot. Can you imagine doing that x size in the moment, however, rather than just retrospectively, I think that when you are in the middle of argument, I've actually tried to practice some the psychological strategies that I've daddy, while I'm in the middle of a heated argue with my own husband June and yet not easy, not big, yeah. I think a lot of these six actually dont work when things have escalated to a certain point when you're in middle than argument and, if someone's
hey wait. I can stop everything. Do you want to less angry would you like to de escalate and you're like no. Let's go all the way. That's true for me I imagine, is true for other people. So what would you say? It would be the most tangible advice for when he was feeling contempt and doesn't want to feel contempt by cause they value the familiarity. Maybe it's a sibling, maybe it's a spouse may be your own kid, but sate someone you. Billy admire at work, you think they're, very smart. There very devoted, but they are going to vote differently this far ray. I think. Actually, this is a relevant question right now, because I don't know if there contempt meter, but it's gotta be at all time highs in this country, because there's contempt on left for the right and there's contempt on the right for the left. So what's the recommendation there, you know, I think, be the most important thing: to do is to have humility? Humility is
can I see that you could be incomplete or wrong very hard to do and so trying to recognise that in trying to take another person's perspective? furthermore straightforward thing to do in addition to paying attention to all things you do like about this person who irritates you in other ways is to actually have a real. Conversation about the thing causing the contempt yeah I mean, if you can re, if you can do this without things in a spiralling control, if we can have an argument, you have a discussion agri, so could say that you know I have to tell you when you talk about this issue in this way, it makes me feel contemptuous because I feel very differently and I'm not. My recommendation really dried. Yes, if you do that,
The irony closes. Earnest desire is that it was while I am using my earners yeah. You do some airlines. Look, I'm not very good at this. I actually have lunch with somebody recently of whom you were deeply contemptuous. Well, you know we were friends that I used the past tense because you don't talk, got to politics and I left, and the group of them here and I haven't spoken to send so I'm not a great role model for this. Did you really walk out during the year? I'm not sure, I'm proud of that aid or remove billion. I paid the bill for, as does that, help I paid the bill in the thought about the money, but it's about you consciously and deliberately, while you you, it was obvious that you left, I said out loud like I can't against my will. You I can't leg. Yeah maybe we're not was the ad they were going to Britain's anymore. It's funny cassettes. I would they got it. Can I just say it's not admirable, I'm not proud of it. Is it? Is it
common for you to do that kind of thousands time? Actually I can remember in my life tat I have like walked out. It's just so paradoxical to me, though, that if you think about personal relationships generally decrease is: are we kind of fear, the stranger rat? We fear the person we don't know where contemptuous people we know the best. So it seems like the answer is just to have a bunch of casual quaintest? Let's not that kind of. I would feel anything over the solution. I thought that I don't think so you don't you think. There's one idea that I heard there is some politician who is trying to get two sides of the room to agree, and he very strategic We need everybody eat? First, so everybody had to have dinner together and it was very hard to feel the kind of contempt in the distance from the when you re, broken bread, so you know, maybe if we could all go out for a kind,
like all you in here, but that you storm now. I know right after that. Didn't work for were a baby. It doesn't work every time, an extreme case. You show your psychologist. I should I should probably make up. I don't know, I'm thinking about it. I so it's a year in relationship with someone and rather than being the contempt giver, you're the contempt receiver you can heal, or maybe they ve been told on the receiving end of content partner feels contemptuous towards you. So a what do you do, but be e here's, what I really want to know. Don't you want to ask the other person What do I yell lies in you to feel this, and can I do something about it? First of all, I want to know if it's a legitimate, you knows it is anti under standing yeah and if its not, then maybe we could talk it out, because one feature of content it strikes me is that there is a little bit of a veil of secrecy of yeah. It's maybe not out in the open right, yeah Wolf. I think he has answered.
On question well done, because you know if you are on the receiving contempt. That is surely what you should do right like why every behaviour has a reason right and If you are on the receiving end of contempt, it doesn't mean that that person is exactly right, but there has to be The reason why they have that contempt- and I think the chair Lunch, though, is so, If you are on the receiving end of a storm of contempt would you say well when I hear you say you think I'm a awful person? Do I have that right What can you tell me more? What is it that I've done and I'm really listening? I know you, I know you're trying to make fun of that, but that actually sounds to me better than the old and of which is? Usually is something wrong israeli Bothering you did, I do something: to offend you, it almost sounds back. If we're talking about a radical candor idea to say, I feel
If you will contemptuously our yeah right now and allowing it to be marking, I think you're right yeah. I didn't do it and feel good to feel contempt toward me and I, would really like to know what's causing it, and if I can do anything you want, I don't mean to you know, say this cat like. Yes, that is the right but you know why I'm just acknowledging that in the emotional grip of relationship crisis, like that, not Many of us are in line did not to do that, and that is why I think there is therapy. I think that is why people go to couples counselling, because you they could, in theory, has he's got on. There but they need a professional third party to guide them through. They probably know they ought to do. I've read that couples therapy is more successful. In practice to while the relationship is going well, but I am sceptical that fight
I think it means that there's a couple that doing so well, they want you know pro actively. Engage in other be emerges indicates that they have a good relationship long about. I don't it's very hard by the way to do like real random assignment studies of couples. There'll be no. I know you know you get to go to couples. Are you can't? I know you want to get what you can't you're in the control room, but common sense has its good advice. What you like in couples. Therapy is how to communicate Ino, especially under stressful there or like antagonist certain, like I recently had dinner. Newlywed couple did storm out on them too. I decided to Noddles they stay until the end of dinner, but to maintain our friendship, Ed, I was really happy when they told me that they were already in couples therapy and I kind of gently. I asked whether disputes lot of skills about how to have relationship barely over and they had we dear, even when they were dating, distort couples there, because they didn't they were like out it sounded to us we'll couples there be. Is that you learn lot of skills?
about how to have a relationship and that sounded goods that we started nose like while you're so much smarter than me. I reflected couples their faith elected couples there. It's a good bumper kicker near a ring to it. Before we finish up today. There's one more thing I'd like to know about as covered it reinforces more and more of us into lock downs in quarantine. We need to think about the people who just are set up to thrive in a locked down world like elderly people, especially those who live alone. Or any one limited by income, more geography or illness. The good news is that most of us have the internet. Can you imagine the pre internet lockdown? Can you imagine doing without all the communication and entertain deliveries that we currently squeeze out of our phones, but there is still plenty of gaps in what we can do online and is much reach as the internet provider
it doesn't do all that. Well, on the local level, when I was a kid in rural upstate, New York when somebody was in trouble, they'd call their neighbour and their need where would called their neighbour and pretty soon everybody within ten miles knew you needed help before long some We will step up and do their best to help me out. Doesn't that sound like something we could use right now, more modern version of that. We recently talk to someone who thinks they can help she's the ceo of a social working service called next door? Yes, they are I shall not working service based in San Francisco with venture capital funding. The elevator pitch is Facebook for neighborhoods, so you're allowed to be sceptical, but the CEO Sarah friar makes next door sound better than that, especially now. There's really three things that
Do the first, as we connect neighbours who probably dont, know each other? What I love about next door is the power of proximity. So it's not the power of like minded people. It's the power of the people who live around me and while neighborhoods can have their own homogeneity, there's more header, an eighty than I would see commonly just in life, so even thinking my own community right. I live amongst people. Her from all different age groups from early twenties through I'm I have a neighbour in their nineties. I live amongst people that have grown up. Emigrate admin, so they come a very different kind of cultural backgrounds, people in different stages of life and with different beliefs. Ok, that's the first thing. The second thing we do is we help you Stan formed. So you know, what's going on around, you can be little things like. Why are they digging a hall in the road outside my house, all the a two african bury was coming. What do I need to do to prepare? What's I need to do
survive and then, when things are over, what can I do to recover? And then finally, and then it helps you to get things done. I'm working mom says really important: and quickly find the best plumber, the best babysitter. We find the loss, Pat there's a out of utility and our platform, which makes it different from a lot of other social media before covert nineteen next door, it was already catching on. So we started in the U S, but we are now quite strong in Europe, were showing rate momentum in Australia? They were all operating and more than two hundred and fifty thousand neighbourhoods, and we work very closely with public agencies. So the local fire department, police department, all the way up to folks like FEMA here in the U S in the UK, folks like the home office or the metropolitan police. With covered nineteen there's been huge spike in demand for next door. Among users, as well as public agencies in caliphs,
Governor Gavin Newsome issued a state wide stay at home order. Any did you do the campaign called neighbour to neighbour, encouraging people to help their most vulnerable neighbours, make sure they're getting food and medicine at the very least next door, dot, com, news announced would be the online partner to help make that happen. Let us know if you are a next door user or if you become one we are at radio at for economics. Dot com were always happy to hear from you about anything. Maybe you'll need some help this week. Next week, maybe you'll be able to help. Someone else will be back next week, in the meantime, to carry yourself, and maybe someone else to talk to you later
reconnects radios produced by sticker and W productions. This episode is produced by Matt, Hickey, Rebecca Lee Douglas and Daphne Chen Allison, Craig Low is our executive. Producer staff also includes Gregg ribbon. Zactly can Perry. Huggins incurring Wallace are in turn is Isabel, o Brien. We had held this week from James Foster. Our theme song is MR fortune by hitchhikers altogether, music was composed by Luis Gara. Remember you can reach us at radio at for economic that com you can find all our episodes FR economics, dot com and we're on social media to thanks, you listening
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Transcript generated on 2020-04-03.