« Freakonomics Radio

Extra: Mark Cuban Full Interview

2019-01-26 | 🔗

A conversation with the Shark Tank star, entrepreneur, and Dallas Mavericks owner recorded for the Freakonomics Radio series “The Hidden Side of Sports.”

This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
This podcast dynamically inserts audio advertisements of varying lengths for each download. As a result, the transcription time indexes may be inaccurate.
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Yo slash freak. You can enroll there in a program called step up which was created by our friends at behavior change for good. That's a group of scientists were running big experiments to help people achieve better outcomes in health, education and personal finance. You ve heard about their work in a couple previous episodes. One was called how to launch a behavior change revolution. The other was could solving this one problem solved all the others. The deadline for step up is January. Thirty, first so hurry again. It's twenty four go dot seo slash freak, that's to forego dot c, o slash freak. Now on with our show. This is a frequent, I'm afraid you extra are full interview with the entrepreneur in Dallas Mavericks owner marked Cuban who's been appearing in our hidden side of sport series Cuban.
On the matter. Since two thousand and he's one of the investors regularly appearing on the reality tv show shark tank. He made his four in the late nineteenth ninety selling the streaming service broadcast that come to Yahoo for five point: seven billion dollars our conversation took place last summer before the current NBA season had begun. Lebron James was still a free agent. At the time the man had already draft the slovenian teenager look Dandridge. I've been having an excellent Ricky, see even though the maps are doing poorly overall. The conversation covers a lot of ground, including Cubans ambitions to own a baseball team, and maybe just maybe his ambitions to run for president, your so here a number of names that you may not be familiar with Byron. Your weight, for instance, was a great collegiate athlete played three seasons in the NFL twice reading the leading rushing but then left for law, school and ultimate
the sea. On the: U S Supreme Court, the Rick, the cuban mentions is doubtless mavericks, culturally Carlyle Kim Turkey is a former NBA Ref who fled guilty to betting on games. He was involved in. If there's anything else, you don't catch. Well, that's what goes for thanks worsening My name is a human and your listen to free economic, radio, hey this is in Dublin. Kmart given has gone even done, nor how are you great nice to talk to you congrats on look, we say Don check, how we Sancho shame gunshot. Yet yeah thanks, congratulations, yeah! He looks amazing. We hope he is so let me ask you this year, roughly sixty years old, you grew up in Pittsburgh which, as you know, one when the best sports town,
I'm just curious in a nutshell, how you think pro sports has changed since you were a kid. Oh, my goodness, that's a big question. It depends on which sport it depends on what city depends on whose perspective you know, I think you promised. You know in a lot of ways. It hasn't changed been in a lot of ways, dependent, what city or in your team, come and gone or better or worse than you know That's just it just depends on perspective. Ok, let's pick a team pick the steelers of your childhood in my childhood. You know guys like Kublai Iron, Andy Russell, even Franco. Well, maybe not quite frankly, but these guys would typically workin season job, and they were making money to retire on an end now. Obviously, the economics are a lot different, but the economics or a lot different on the business side as well. You just been tremendous,
and this tremendous growth- and I guess I'm curious as sport has become such a massive and global business. Whether you think that basically made the product, the games better, worse different house- so I may, I think, has made a better because it it's an incentive for more people to become professional athletes, Pino for all stories of athletes working in the summer. There's the wizard lights of the world and in other employees who chose not to go into professional sports at all and so now, that the money creates a enough of incentive, but again that duchess part equation, now, there's other issues. There's you know it. Eighty eight for a hockey and football, those suckers Much more is is much bigger sport in the current. In the? U S, to be when I was growing up, was even a varsity sport. I was in high school and so a lot of things have changed your best known, probably for it
things, shark tank and owning the dolls mavericks. Can you just give us a quick catalogue of your other sports business interests? Oh, my goodness, you know Most most, my other sports interests are driven through technology weather is synergy, sport Which does cataloguing and video of all things, basketball, sports radar, which is information service for sports, unicorn, which is on delivery for east words and allows for token eyes buried for Eu Sports right now, axon, which does on neural development so that athletes can increase improve their arm. the logical responses to stimuli and the fiscal responses. As a result, another company that that does uses virtual reality and like a we like tat,
apology to help kids and in Annapolis and professionals improve their dribbling, ills and other basketball skills. Now I would say, everything that you just name there if you were to have rewind the tape to forty years ago or fifty years ago- and you were a kid most of those would have been somewhere between unimaginable and you know not feasible. I mean that that's one direction in which sport has just blown up in terms of technology again see the technology and we hear all the time about how the data revenue who is changing the way the game is played. I'm curious, whether it's really having as big an impact is, would like to thank her ammonia. Absolutely you know, Lennox obviously has helped in terms of team strategy. But that's, They become relatively efficient market because all teams were involved in there are higher in Smart p, what did you mostly the same things- bio Analyse were were becoming smarter about the body nutrition sleep
genetics the just so many Ellen its involved with Bio Analytics that it's it's a, never ending a broom and cycle so who in turn the turnarounds franchise turnarounds your team, the mavericks, have been one of the most drastic when you came in the years against the nine seasons. Before you arrived, the maps winning percentages is about forty percent. Here we were and since you ve been there about seventy percent, that's really remark so we could either say. I mean we're gonna, try to draw a causal relationship. We could say either mark Cuban is one of the best donors ever or he was really. get the intersect perfectly with Dirk Nowitzki Career, or you know five hundred and ten other things. Can you just talk about what you did that you think worked and what are the other factors that led to that sick lovely. The two are mutually exclusive. Are I think, sometimes, when you're Delta good had not screwing up as a talent on, but I think what did was try to change a culture because, like any
work environment on you really really talented people, but if they don't like coming to work where they don't like working together, and you're not gonna, get out more results and so I came in the previous owner nickel and dime. Everything didn't recognize that the players are the key to the organization we spit. We did he's. They spend more money on computer repair and training than we did on medical issues and development on four players and so I just change that I just the script and said look. My job is to provide the resources to put everybody in a position to succeed, and if I do that good things will happen. And so we had Dirk, we had seen ass. We had Michael thinly the same. you guys were awful the year before I got there the day I bought the team like it was nine and twenty three and we finished the season- I thirty one and nineteen and one fifty games the next season. So well certainly didn't have any jumpers. I think you know recognized that there was an opportune
to invest in some great players and make them better what they do. What was until state of the organization in the building. When you came in without losing record that year, get me out of here. Everybody, it was away, station. If you can't get a job somewhere else, he came the mavericks, we'll players, traded here. They just couldn't wait to get out. Your last couple. Seasons, though, have been fairly stinky least by man. Standards, I'm so much so that you got a hydra pick this year. So what happened? What happened guys get older, help, guys get injured, and so You played out as long as you can as best we can and we try to respond and rebuild as quickly as possible, and hopefully, with this summer, with our draft picks in anybody we sign and free agency will be able to do that and are fighting our where you ve been find a few,
I am by the NBA most recent one, six hundred k for talking about that. It was essentially in the best interest in the team to lose to get a higher draft pick you up, I'm just curious. You know you're worth about four from what I've seen due care. Much I mean is that strategic outspokenness in that case more often than not, it was in that particular area. that was being interviewed by Julius Irving, and I just fan Boyden said the wrong cautiously. Julius early was like my boyhood basketball. Here are really I mean he was the one guy looked up to, and it was the first time I bet amended, and to give you idea of you know how much fan boy, I'm out of Julius. Even when I was a kid efficient, safe Pittsburgh a basketball movie was being film the Corina, and I took a bus down there just to see him. You have just just me procedurally serving not play? Basketball just to see him and then, when I first but the I was outset,
An mba all start everything was in Philly and I took a picture with doktor day he did know he was in the picture. It was maybe he'd. Take it. Having someone take a picture with him in it me smile and self, and then, when I, when he asked me to do, is podcast there, it was just like yeah, and so I started be to call on you know, trying to impress him in I start talking about being a players owner the you know he said he would have liked a blade for me as an owner. Then I had to show That's what I said the wrong thing. What was it about Doktor J as a player that you have so much I'll, just as athleticism you know his winning attitude. Is you it means you know he on the court naughty, yet a certain style that you know you don't take any prisoners and he was, he was without regret him and I always bear those qualities, and this was also the ABA, which was the upstart league. I send you ve kind of identified with upstarts throughout your life I would say underdogs more than upstarts, maybe there one and the same in a lot of instances, but it's not like. I expect
all this to happen, you know and so in every of the way I would try to just keep on right in and try to accomplish what I could accomplish and go from there. I am curious who your favorite steelers, where oh Franco, hair is means agree, Jack Lambert, any dark horses, any more obscure guys, Joe Guillaume, will you another first black quarterback yeah, who s army? Think there's a guy named touch silken that tension they still broadcasting for imposing really so tat. came from Indiana State and we had a mutual friend, and so when he came to the Steelers But go hang out with him in some of the Steelers him to tell your quick story one time we went out with Jack Lambert, Steve Courson tonnes. Yo can lend swan to placing Greenery Pennsylvania. Horrible snowy day I had
a nasty or nineteen, seventy seven fanatics, one nine, which was is a tiny car and they got up left earlier before I did. I go out to find my car in the snow and they literally had picked it up between them and carried it put it on a hill, so that I they go to figure out how to get it through the snow downhill back into the street. I say you did not become a professional athletes. Yours but you went one better and became a billionaire and the story for people who don't know where it reads like fiction. So can you just briefly tell us that story. I would tell you we started the streaming industry. You know there is a point. I'm not in the early nineties, where the internet was, becoming functional in one of my body from colleges like we ve gotta, be able use, all this new internet stuff to be able, listen, two Indiana Basketball, and saw outside ok, I'm attack? I let me see if I can figure it out him. I just so
but a few years earlier, my first company, which was it a networking carbon tat. I was familiar with with the technology and had a little bit of money answer I went to work, but you know pc ninety megahertz belle and eyes the online and just started. Figuring out and we created a website called audio on it fast forward. A few years we go public is the biggest ip on the history. The stock market, in what you programme realises we dominated all things audio and video on the internet. There is nobody, close is as Domini Youtube is today we were that time and then we had it Nick opportunity that when we, audio if they were kept on doing what we were doing. Even after that the stock market bubble had burst. There would be no Youtube. there might not even be a google I mean, did they chose the direction and they chose to de invest. When you know, Google chose the opposite to invest in that change. The course of history for streaming
so that was nearly twenty years ago. There was ninety nine that sold broadcast dot com to Yahoo. Can I ask you to speculate a little bit? Maybe not looking twenty years forward, but maybe five or ten big live sport events, are in some ways keeping the legacy broadcasts networks alive. They are one of the few death nation points for for watching tv these days, I'm really curious. You know the streams companies and companies, Amazon that have streaming as well, they have so much money. Now that I'm guessing I mean they, they could buy the leagues if they wanted to. So I'm really, I'm really cool. Is to know what you see. The future of watching sports looks like an end will be kind of gradually change so that we won't even notice so much or do you think it'll be radically different. Now I think it'll be gradual, but will be different for a couple. Different reasons one when you want. reason. Sports are still so prevalent on traditional Our vision is it's a destination. If you want to
the mavericks. If you know what's this the pirates, if you don't to the the doll stars, whatever you have to go to traditional tv and and that's one of the keys to retaining the customers. Does the drivers have particularly for four odour of yours, which leads to a big question that I'll drive some of this in its some level? You know when people turn for it. Fifty sixty two, they start consuming more television or where well, millennials as they age stick to tread no digital over the top. That's the unknown question because you said for over the top. You still have to do work. You still have are you still have to choose from twenty apps? Thirty apps, which you know Is more noise, then going through a Directv programming guide and so those things have to improve dramatically. I think, before order consumers which, from traditional television, all that said,
one of the challenges for over the top is that there is an unlimited number of choices when you go, on Charter Comcast, Directv, eighteen t whatever you're it you ve got to interfere three hundred choices. Maybe and that may be daunting, but it still someone manageable. You go online, you you know there's a zillion choices, there's no limit to the number of choices. You know. It's you, then a day and Youtube so destination content is much rare there. There on a lotta hits online and Even when you see Youtube Stars or Amsterdam stars, they have to create content of, single day and the same applies to twitch? You know ninja has we'll be plain there? thing from Ninja the guy's a for the fortnight, superstar that when he did, what can one day he lost forty thousand subscribers, so it's a whole different beast and so over the top. You know when it comes to sports, that the license value of of,
the NBA college horse etc is gone. It escalate significantly because it's harder to draw an audience over the top and for the reason you mention right now, The market caps are bigger than the fangs, the top five or six different online media companies just dwarfs. digital media. So I think that the lights gonna change. Then you add the impact of five g and so five jeez smaller cells, but much higher ban bandwidth, which means you can broadcast different types of things at are bit rates and it also may lead to people cutting the broadband cord so That money you paid for your internet subscription. You may be pan fifty bucks, every five hundred bucks Montfort bra then that might go away and the same can you use free your phone? You might use for your broad
as well, which can in turn change how we consume content as well. Right, let me ask you this: let's look at individual sports or leagues, especially with the future of the way the materials distributed. and the future of those games or leagues themselves. So let's pretend that you have the choice of three stocks: by and I'm gonna make you I'm gonna me by one. So one and hold one in the three are gonna, be and I fell. You have see the end, will say a basket of e sports leagues or game's over watch. I take. He supports the efforts against those three yeah I take I'd, buys Barcelona fell right, ok and hold you see for now. Ok, ok! So, let's, let's get into both those I'll bet. First, while why tell NFL. I just think CD creates a problem, so participation has been drop in the last few years and will continue more and better
I have an eight year old son, there's no way a play tackle football. My brother, less, my nephew play Highschool football bodies, not that good It's not like he's gotta, admit a future in football right. What about the political stuff? It's happening most mostly the anthem protests. Do you think legitimately hurting footballers at more of a sideshow. Now that short term. That short term ok seething see to ease the biggest barrier that because apparent. If you don't want your son plain and your daughter, I guess I don't wanna be gender specific, but if you don't know, Your child plain contact football. Then you know you you diminished the view in the house. It's like. I want my son to get excited about watching football and in reality you know it's crazy because you don't hey. Let's watch a cow, was game as watches. Still again, when I was growing up, it was a certainty. If that's what you did You know now you know he'd much rather play fortnight or do other things then watch football
So how do we explain, though, the success of you have sea, especially given the concern over the NFL and the decline of boxing mean boxing is to be the biggest sport in America it when it was hurt for a lot of different reasons? Obviously, but but what do you think you have seen? The league has done with sport has done that the NFL maybe isn't doing as well? I think it's just different for as its individuals in individuals can make their own choices. You don't need a lot of participants, you know in in given you a sea fight, there's ten matches twenty guys and So if you don't need the number of participants that you do obviously for football with fifty three guys on a team and the the two teams and then College Football Highschool, football Cetera, right, ok and you're buying sports so say why
and especially explain to people who can't get their mind around it at all. What is the appeal of watching? I mean you know the especially Dallas for yours become really is her hotbed, yet others arenas, stadiums being built and so on. So why do twenty fifty thousand people on a good with state him to watch other people play video games, because once you understand the game, it's like to play, you understand the nuances of the game and its aspirational. An educational and so you know if, if you like to play legal legends, it's hard, but one of the way You'd, better legal legends is to watch other people play in it. the nuances and to learn the strategy's, particularly given that change the rules every ninety or hundred twenty days, and so because of that these,
Sports teams have got a practice hours and hours and hours a day, so it takes a real skill. It's a real sport and, if you like it, you know watching it is entertaining educational aspiration, and we also have to realise that anybody in front of appears to Spock's pc. You know achieving these kids that play in their mine. You know just maybe we'll watch sports growin up if they hate they can do what I can do it and so that the operational part of it, is well there's no physical, her as you can be found put one or seven for one man, if you ve, got the and I coordination and the brain process in speed- and you know anything is possible. You could do to one. investments? You mention unicorn is a company that facilitates betting on sports, he just us all, but about how at work and whether whether gambling on sport maybe a little bit more susceptible to match fixing, then other sports are not necessarily the idle
first. Let me start, I don't think is more susceptible at all, because this much more difficult, mostly sports, are multi. Dimensional, chess with so many pieces involved that it be nearly impossible to just you know, there's were too Billy Indifferent chest moves- and there's probably you Know- actually more in legal legends and Europe why? Why unicorn just because yet it work. I'm! U! What kind of access will we have to what kind of bets? Well, it really is Clean is legal in a hundred eighteen countries and so right now for sports in those because you can just go bad on who wins indifferent prop anxiously. from any other sports. Let me ask you a bow American pro sport. League, so urine NBA owner. I dont know too much about how quote the league works. I know a little bit more about the NFL, but in the NFL the owners are essentially the league sure. Is it much different in the NBA, pretty similar set up. No, not really! No, not really! Oh yeah, not really, though, I think the biggest there,
between the NFL in the NBA is the emphasis put on talent in the inner fell, they sell the NFL, in the NBA. We saw the talent, the players, we promote the players, they promote themselves because is mutually beneficial. I think You know, with the exception of just a few stars, this just my opinion. The Vienna fell, pierced a user players, look at their places, be more fungible in others, fifty three of them, you can rotate x number three every year in you know, Lastly, if you know the entire, Dealers team was in a mall and or the entire. I was cowboys team was in a mall, maybe two or three the players would get recognized, and so it's different world you're nuts, partly because their helmeted yeah, but but more than that right, yes, duchess! Goes there helmeted, okay! So, given that the league
operate. You know these obviously lotta differences, roster, size, number games, etc, etc, etc, but Lit let's. Let's assume that, for the sake of argument that all four major sports leagues in America are pretty similar in that They have you know it's it's a membership and once you're in your in and it's pretty hard to lose money as a professional sports team, because the way revenues are divided. Now, that's not true at all know that it is that not all oh hell can give you an example. I can can't brought names, but you will have the NBA teams in a given year, are gonna lose money more than you think. Really here so, even with the revenue sharing, with all the broadcasts and other monies distributed evenly and with a salary cap that guarantees that you don't have to overspend a certain you're saying that: how do you lose money? Is it by not? Everybody has enough lacking gate revenue, yeah lacking revenue period, yea, just like any business right, but
it what's the major variables, a gate revenue? Is it broadcast revenue, gate, broadcast players, all the obvious things right? Ok, so that said, leagues in major american Pro ports are more protected. Then let's say you know you paean soccer right, where I causes no delegation and the exactly do you think always funny, because our capitalism is more cut throat than there? Is there a little bit more socialist, but we have the slightly more socialist set up right. Do you think there which do you prefer? I guess I'd like to know what where you are right, if, if you already have a significant brow like Real Madrid, you know you big, as you can spend more money than everybody else, they put some limits on on how much money, teams can lose and how much that they can have an that's impact of things. But if you know, if you're on the bottom and you combine team inexpensively and you think you ve gotta secret formula.
get you into the Premier league, etc. Then you wish, you know that physician you want to be in your at on the top and there's nothing. That's gonna, Acta revenues in your global Brandon. You generate life. Seen and other incomes globally, you want to be at the top. You know the NBA were global brand, but the Dallas Mavericks get one thirtieth of anything sword, whether its in China or Germany or San Francisco. You know we don't we don't control the generation of revenues for ourselves, except in our local markets, in what league? In? U S, sports do think players. The Please have the most leverage in the least leverage the NBA, Unifil and NBA Asthma Stan, NFL, Z, iced without question, and does that have to do with Russia,
Versailles primarily or is it going to be? Is it going to be on the injury contact sports? You know the number of college football teams providing talent, the fact that they go for years, get to see most and go for years. You it's either to evaluate talent right speaking of college football? What's here, overall view of the unsuitable ay, I think, is worthless yeah. Obviously there is a lot of it send it to keep it as it is? A lot of people are benefiting, although you could easily argue that the one set of people who should be benefiting the people are actually providing the physical labor or are not benefiting very much. If you could blow it up in tire. what would you do what you have football attached? A college at all, would do you make it? turn of the D League and sent the I don't mind having attached to college, but I would make it an independent entity, so it would operate independently. If I wanted to create a league of Legend
team did not answer bound, so I can pay players. If I choose- or you know, sent them. I can you don't let them have a job for aid. let him go get a job Lenin practice as much as they need too much, as I can but if I wanted to create a band- and what Indiana University my alma mater and found, which has a great me school and found best musicians work, the band I want to put together, I can pay and they can stay in school. They can practice together. Much as they want the Odessa hypocrisy. If you to be a professional athletes. You can't practice your craft is much as you would like, there's limits to poaching and playing with your your teammates. There is, it's on jobs. You can take this does so many different things that bound in stone that it just doesn't make sense, and so the reasons why they they evolve to where they are, but it is time to take a whole different look here. Do no Domini
Ox worse, he was that no, I do not. He was the number two. The NBA Players Association for while heap he was the president of the NFL Players Association. He was a player, he was a cornerback played for, I guess Denver landed in Baltimore, so he's just a guy, a career cut short by injury, but he cast out because he had insurance and now he's kind midlife early thirties and he's looking back and trying to figure out how to help the next generation of athlete do better. He told us that he things would be in the best interest of players to dissolve the union's the p the NBA Players Association, because that would put the leagues in violation of labour laws and would give players the or to negotiate better deals and to make more money. I never than ever it every time. There is a lot. Look, I'm not a sea ba expert in Cancun details, but you know the ETA elders there's a long history of labour unrest and the first thing they do is dissolved the union. Well, let's say
at four minute, you're, not on the ownership side at all and that year either within the year. Let's say you run a the biggest sports agency in the country or or maybe you know associate with players in some way and let them you slow down right there, because if I do anything relative, this EPA I'll get find again and why I like you It's not strategic right now. Basically, you we find, but not as much as Doktor Jays. What you're saying that exactly I can. I can accept that pressure that, coming up after the break mark human famous for yelling at NBA referees will get to the root of this habit. What started doing my homework, though, games officiated the same in the first minute as they were in the last minute and destroy me nuts, and why was cuban according to Cuban not allowed to buy immediately based, team because they knew I'd I'd, try to change things. I would teach our guys Tibet Every time they hit home run features you gotta, just change things up and if you have
heard it yet check out our entire hidden side of sport series on any podcast app or on free economy? come when you will be right back for economics. Radio sponsored by Petsmart Petsmart makes it safe and easy for you to care. For your pet, at Petsmart, the health and safety of employees, pet parents and pets, are which most important, which is why they require face coverings, social distancing and stop plexiglas shields and enhanced cleaning to follow CDC recommendations for contact with him. Thing just order online at Petsmart, not com or on the Petsmart, APP joy, easy curbside, pick up for same day, delivery powered by door dash free through January thirty. First, two thousand twenty one check out: Petsmart dot com for more details. Let's get back to the light, we ended full interview. We did with more cuban for hours
inside of sport series, Cuban is among many other things. The owner of the NBA is doubtless mavericks. Let me ask you this big development from the Supreme Court. Not Along about sports gambling, I would assume that really changes, evaluation of every professional or even semi, professional sports free, size. Our question: you can you talk about how that's going to affect you yeah? I think it a little franchise valuations, doubly literally because does a lot more reasons for people to pay attention lot, more reasons for people to watch and that's good for our body my people a ten, more and watch you don't more hours of of India, basketball insane for all professional sports. I at a quiz for you are reading. I know you, I know you're, very smart guy, don't be surprised if we get this right. Home field advantage exists in every spore all over the world. What would you say is the
I marry driver of home field advantage as according to academics, who studied this say- you know my guess would and it's not home palm of court, how mice advantage naturally hold true like an hockey doesn't hold true? So I would tell you probably the energy and so there's a couple things one. You know I know their studies that say that the officials give benefit to come home teams across all sports people. Try to argue that that's not the case is what it whatever it is. It is Then there's the energy of a crowd. Me crowds do make players play harder, and then you know I'd also say: there's just the comfort of peace. and in a place that you're used to shooting and plain and hidden in field in an etc. So would the academics argue? Is it it basically unconscious ref bias, they're, not rooting for the home team, obviously, but the basically the crowd sentiment right puts the rifts unconscious,
in that mode, having just offers wrote that just in wrote about race. Actually, you know most of the studies about home field advance I come from soccer where there are some nice little instrumental variables that you can use to determine them implies year, depending on the level soccer. You know where your plan is it yeah, there's concern for their lives, yeah guardedly, exactly here one of the best piece of evidence came from measuring soccer played in stadiums where there was a running track around the field. So the rest are literally, you know twenty yards further from the crowd and, and they the home field advantages much less so. But that said you, or probably most famous as an owner for, if you want to call it working the rest, but communicating with the raft just talk about that, how would evolved and how successful you think it is it's funny. You know everybody's wired differently and when I play basketball arm
and by the way I just got dumpling basketball and I've got a died. I just had a diet coke up against my killers. So I've been a basketball junkie, my entire life, everybody, nothin for whatever reason when I got to the mass I just looked at the officiating and it just drove me nuts, because you know my attitude has always been that the three officials in basketball, no matter what the level have more impact than eighty percent of the players on the court and that that's why it's always driven me crazy and when I first got in and started during my homework, though one of the things that was conventional wisdom is that games where fishy aided the same in the first minute as they were in the last minute and just call me nuts and the more I got to know the more I got to learn, then I saw understand. You know how officials at all levels manage games and deal.
certain issues, and it wasn't always about making the right call throughout the game and- and so that's that's just take me off. That's just heard everything else and some was yeah, I think it has been because I can tell you that things are he's dramatically at various times, have changed dramatically for the better at various times per now changed and it got worse. So there was, you would have position. Do you think that input on that has changed the way and be a games are refereed now at least more consistency without question. I don't know more consistency but yeah. What channels by which its work is there being actual committees. Where you sit down and say listen. This is plainly going on in its view, no, not right, not fair and transparent, or know what base no effect. No, no! It's not even like that. It's not like I come in and say the disrupt is by this guy's gonna prom couple times. I've done that on board. You know in it and has been investigated, has been fixed in. It
I liked him down. He has just little marginal things. But in any event, but This change, in my thing that I've always harping on the most is for Mamma experience in business. You always want to get the best possible manager, and were I've seen a lot of companies make mistakes, is we'll take their best sales person and make them a sales manager. We'll just you're good salesperson doesn't make you a good sales manager and so using that analogy just because you were referee or just cause. You are good management somewhere in the NBA, doesn't mean you're the best person to be in charge officiating group and that's been my biggest battle that they promote people, not because they were the best for the job because were there or they promoted rafts into positions of authority, not because they were good. Managers and not because they can get great results, but because they used to be good rifts and those guys wanted to keep on working, and so
That's what I had the greatest minor problem and that's where I think I've had the greatest impact. Gotcha there's another he's a researcher argues that a lot of NBA coaches are bad strategically when it comes to sitting players and foul trouble. If a player is good enough to say because you're worried about losing a his values actually greater by playing I'm curious, if you have any thoughts on that and Vieira talked your coaches about them. now. I agree. Look out. You know because begun back to the rest. Even the rest know how many thousand guys have a guy has, and so they understand that you know, It's a toss. A call in its a grey area called are probably not gonna call it, and there's a smart enough to adjust now in the foot, when you know a great player has three thousand first quarter They go Adam and try to get that fourth foul, because there is appointed diminishing returns and so typically, if it's two thousand fine, if we're keeps men Rick's gone to their point, if its it again a qualified to pay,
on the opponent right, because the value of that player is relative to the time, the score and the opponent, and so if the number say keep a man, I'm fine would keep him in one. Will you finally gonna buy a mutually baseball team, never weapon, never over well to think too things happen one day that one man and two I had my kids what are rather too much fun. A hundred sixty two gave my wife would widen. Why didn't baseball want you in because they knew I'd I'd, try to change things. You know I just did an interview with Cc Sabathia and he was I. What would you do differently? You know one. I would teach other guys two. every time they hit home because you gotta just changed things out. These unwritten rules are ridiculous and you know that the fans pay the bill the guy, get give reason come to I'll, you know I'd push for the designate hitter in both league, so that pitchers in between Indians go right to the boy. Van and warm up or do whatever they needed to, and that way when you
back on the field. You don't. You but you don't throw any warmer pitches. You go right into pitching No, you don't the ball is around the and failed in the outfield. You just go right in the brakes on the brakes and you go right up to bat and you don't you reduce our off again. It is pretty weird you like in the NBA between every dead ball. These ache lay a practice again yeah exactly you get to guess shots up in everything you know, and so do so many ways you can speed up the game and I would have been pushing for talking about him and they want to see the YAP. What would you say? I've been year, most significant changes to the way Bass was played, since you ve done that o little things on things like the clear path ruled I chain because I showed him. The mouth was wrong that they used to be one shot in the ball. I changed it to two shots in the ball. You different, we replace them now with the latest collective bargaining agreement. There is a thing called the cap room exception. So when a team has used be when a team did, when a team had cap room, you just
your cap room now, there's a four point: four million dollar exception that I pushed to get through and our collective bargaining agreements in two thousand and eleven, and so that's been a big change. I'm sure there's other things. That's just becomes the top. My head, the effective that exception is what then so if the mavericks have twenty five million dollars in cash from this year and we use them Cap room the same three players and fully use it. We still One exception where we can sign one or more players for up to four point: four million dollars. I say and the logic was you want to send teams to have cap room and to trade improve their teams and one way too, prove the incentive was to create this Capra exception rank are at last question the Brown going idle, don't wanna get common. Another teens players fell down, this is not a team I've heard mentioned at all. Should they be? Who knows who knows, like? I said, you're, not ready to give find again
sickly. I'm no doctor J. I've learned that I stand down, but I would ever say that that said I very much data, and I really appreciate your time, and I wish you the best of luck to seize and appreciate that hey you gonna run for some office at some point. Yeah, I'm gonna run to the bathroom right. Now I don't. I will see what happens in the mid terms it better Would you enjoy? Do you think the presidency? Would that be a job that I mean just in the in the abstract? Is it a job that you think god I do the job here? Would I enjoyed it, that's hard to say the challenges and put it in doing the job. It's this the process to get there. You know the definition of a poor parenting is having kids eight eleven fourteen and running for presidency. You haven't just link how cute they'd. Beyond the posters I mean, that's a real. I mean I want to decide peer, strategic exploitation of your family there. Now I'm not apparent when it comes to my kids, know the exact opposite
well whatever you do. I wish you continued huge success and I thank you very much of the time prescience mark be well. Thanks enjoy the interview. Thank you thanks to mark human for discussion, patient. You can hear him and many others in our hidden side of sport series for Economics, radio is produced by Sticker and W productions. This series was produced by there's Kyoto and Derek John, with help from Alvin Meloth and Harry Huggins, our staff, also, Two thousand Craig Low Gregg Ribbon exactly kinsky. We had held this week formats- drought, the music you hear throughout our episodes- was composed by Luis Gara. Our show can also be heard on NPR stations across the country, thanks for listening stature to spartan there is no finish line for excellence little wonder it s. You is a leading research university in the world's top one hundred with thirty.
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Transcript generated on 2021-01-20.