Welcome to the podcast casting a great one for you today, Doktor Roberta Robert Epstein is going to be joining us. He is he's got this been looking into Google. He has been warning. We are in real trouble, we're in trouble and twenty sixteen, because Google is manipulating algorithms and search result, and it can change a large number of voters and he says twenty twenty years ago, the worst will now. He under attack only because Donald Trump tweeted, this is a Clinton supporter and Hillary Clinton has come out against him and now he is quite concerned about, what's going to happen to him another one cock in the the rat trap, if you will of political correctness and mob accuracy of America. Also we're gonna talk about democracy of red flag laws and ends

some fundraising notices that are coming out from a political party on gun, control and you'll. Never guess which political parties by then you don't want to miss Kevin Williamson Kevin Williamson, one of the best writers, author of the new book, The smallest minority, independent thinking in the age of my politics, joins us. Following today's vote cast the only thing came, the numbers are beyond her. If carried eighty states under people are killed with guns and hundreds more are shot an injured. Is it true? Hundreds hundreds of people are shot an injured by caught by your guns. Every day in America is a true hundreds. Well I mean you have what forty thousand deaths per year from guns. So that's, I guess it would at adding

have you. No, of course, suggest means battles include suicides and all Dick NL, Gelimer related doesn't really her a hundred just just deaths and probably to China. We should probably separate these out from violent criminal kind of things. You don't have any more. We have these click that, like the these death numbers, include like a guy. You know about to a cellulose slid a woman's throat in a police officer, shoots them like that ya included in that number relic. I think there are a lot of these are just entirely separate those out by those who have a separate amount, because I mean you know one of the main thing Let me just get back to this. One of the main things is the next line. Nearly two thirds of all yearly gun deaths in this country are suicides. Now. Do you really think that taking away a gun by the way? That's not an are two thirds of all of the gun related deaths too,

thirds r r suicides yeah. And if you, if you think that that is a gun problem, you're going to have to explain why countries like Japan with no guns have a much higher suicide rate than us or Russia who has a gun ownership rate of one tenth of the United States. Yet has a much. Higher murder rate and a much higher suicide rate in Pennsylvania, gun violence claims over fifteen hundred lives every year with guns suicides company comprising sixty three percent of all firearms desk in Pennsylvania, sixty five percent, a veteran suicides and our state involve a gun Our country veterans, he everyday total want an argument to make little yellow argue to the people who have been defending our country that hoo hoo hoo of train with these weapons and on everything they could to two to protect these liberties. Let's take their guns, we'll take veterans, guns away

Oh, what a wonderful idea that is the everyday toll of gun violence in America's utterly heartbreaking in this violence routinely shocks the collective soul of our nation. We look for solutions to end America's epidemic gun violence. One sure way to reduce firearms death is through the implementation of red flag laws, also known as extreme risk protection order laws to date. These laws have been enacted in seventeen states and the District of Columbia out. Well then, it's a good idea. Back on February fourteen there was a one year anniversary of parkland blah blah blah blah blah my proposal Senate bill. Ninety would allow judges to temporarily remove firearms from people in crisis who pose an imminent threat of harming.

Cells or others red flag laws. Now, which party sent this out setting us up here. This is Senator Tom Killion, the ninth district in and a Republican in Pennsylvania, sending to all of his supporters Republicans is this, who you are, I mean, there's a lot of support for reply gloves among Republican yeah. Well, the second it is.

For you, if you offer you you're, not you are no longer. You are no longer a constitutional, as you cannot consider yourself, a small government constitutional list if you believe in in gun, control and infringement, we're not talking about look. I have no problem. If you are deemed dangerous after you, ve had the chance to testify. You are innocent until proven guilty. We, cannot cross this line. You are innocent until proven guilty. The red flag law says some accuser can go to court and say you know what they're very, very dangerous there very dangerous I've been look. I was mad,

to them for a very long time and the threats. Oh, you would not believe the threats that they're making you don't think vengeance, just just pettiness. Would get invite. You don't think that there's someone in your family- perhaps perhaps not maybe you're, lucky I know in I know in my extended family. I would not counted out that somebody in my extended family or relations would say: oh yeah yeah I was, I was at a family reunion, guys guys unstable, oh he's, absolutely unstable both sitting at his desk with EU. That would make claims like that. Do not ignore its I've met. You don't know, I mean if you ve ever been through a horrible divorce. Oh my god,

I'd like to be able to have to go. You could go to one of the brothers and sisters or uncles or answer or anybody else that just was angry. Why was Barack Obama president? Why, while he went to Senate race in Illinois, Why did he when the Senate race in Illinois, while he's in a very tight race against Jack, Johannes Jack Ryan, but that's the character who's. The guy I cameras name right last name who went through a very nasty divorce with an actress who, in the divorce proceedings accused him of all sorts of crazy stuff that somehow Brook Obama's people got unsealed and then eventually his opponent Obama's opponent headed, rob out of the race, is Jack right? There is a desire and up to be true at eight. We know after I don't think so you know obviously wasn't there and afterwards, you know after the divorce happened, that there was a a cooling off period in

ah well, he's not that person's outlawed lobby are going through a divorce is how you there all the time your husband, loves, guns, loves guns, and you want to bill, came for everything. Every penny he's, got guy. That's not an unheard of scenario at because you're, at your being pushed by the iter, please you're angry whatever it is? You're telling me that America, you can't see, a husband or wife, doesn't matter. You say you know what you're gonna give this to me or I'm gonna talk about your guns is its objectively. Worse, the other way, right, let's say what this may be having an affair and the guy's very angry about it, and she has a gun to protect herself against an angry.

Anne and the man goes and says you know what she's not she's been threatening people. I think my children are in danger, go take her guns, they go. Do that then she's vulnerable from him right I mean it. Is it's a terrible thing and we ve tried this red flag law thing out recently on another issue, its key. Me, too accusations their power, tickler jobs, away, thrown out of society, and that will figure out whether they actually do it or not. But then this is what what makes this worse is. That's not involving the government or the courts is right. This is public. Opinion is public. Involving the government or the courts is right there public opinion is public opinion. That's bad enough! This one is saying no, we,

you guilty before you even have a chance to answer the charge and its and your reputation being of high quality is not a constitutional right. People can say off. They have also a terrible opinions about you. None of you noticed that some people have terrible opinions about you even gladly, while it's true but in a constitutional right, is your right. Her bear arms so we're taking away constitutionally guaranteed thing with no I'm catholic, it flag. The laws already exist red flag laws or when you go- and you say hey, you know we need to get this person. Is it really erratic and he's acting, and we need having committed right in voluntary commitment. These things already exists. The only thing that the new brand of red flawed flag laws does. Is it makes it so they take the guy before they figure it out. Yet right at this is like an office crazy. Let us take the guns. A memo right figured out, see if it's true that it

raising the upside down. That is craziness. That is against everything we stand for. This is that you remember your taking away a person's right to be innocent before guilty you. What you're doing is your starting down the slippery slope that look things happen. So we ve got a we're. Gonna. Look at you is guilty. Everybody will now you're guilty and we're gonna take your guns and good luck getting back by the way where take your guns, but if you prove yourself to be responsible, skews me this is this is personally,

think that is civil war. I think these red flag law very popular, but I'm in at the very moment, maybe the whole very well, then, maybe not enough people understand was actually what they are. I don't think so either you now and it's like you know, you have a situation where this the research on the Red flag laws where they ve been implemented, shows no effect on homicide rate shows a very slight effect on suicide rate, and we ve seen you know somebody states we're talking about. A third of cases are later found out to be frivolous. Third you're, taking away the constitutional right from a third of the people your accusing you can't do that. That is not an american principle whatsoever. I know we really like. We all have these people around us. It are like all men. I that guy seems dangerous,

This is why those people don't go out and should people. This is why I am not for the death penalty is not because of life. Innocent life, I'm of posts to taking innocent and that is why I am. I am told on the death penalty, but have finally come down on the death penalty, I'm against it, because we can and make mistakes and idle, want to be responsible for taking innocent life, so put him in jail? Stop all this nonsense of racking everything up if you're gonna do it then do it but better make sure you're right. You want to execute somebody. Look any people just from dna test. Now we may get to a point where you got it because everything's on camera everything's, but then you ve got deep fakes. Are you Are you sure you don't want to put an innocent man to death? You don't want an innocent man in jail. You're going

destroy people just on what one person or one side of an opinion There's two sides and we must have the the resumption of innocence for american citizens, not the presumption of guilt. That is What leads to stolen Nazis who Selenium MAO, whoever you want when they can scoop you up or take your stuff or you lose your job through a court system. That says, yeah well, we're gonna we will get back to you will will will fix life. If we were wrong really, where do you go? Where do you go after the after the show,

earth or the FBI or at the front of your house, taking out your stuff because you ve been deemed unstable. Where do you go to get that reputation back? Where do you go in there time where there is no forgetting because of the internet. Where do you go when you, when you go in for a job interview, and they, Google, your name o and they see, pictures of the guns leaving your house because you might be unstable. Where do you go to get that erased where oh boy imposes just written and article Anthony Scar, mochi and the nine biggest one eighties on tromp ranked number. Ten is scary movie. I think number. Nine is an Coulter now this decision is she's the roof. I wish you all now against. You know she wrote a book internally we take, and you know what I think he's been pretty decent on the border in my group

any hasn't. You know done the border lobbies, I think, tried a shoe. Reportedly least: CO wrote his initial border. The proposal, so she is very tight into the details of battle. And so she's, maybe not too excited at the the wall has not been able to get that across financial. What while she says he deserves till route lose reelection. Ok, MIKE Palm Pale is, is the next one Jason chain its is number seven culminated numbers aches make mulvaney number five Andrew Napoletano, I didn't know that because he was very antitrust, poisoning the libertarian right say. I'm not gonna like the executive sort of actions at, but I have not heard him to flip. I met him. He's not has each year that actually know he's got worse off. I think he's gotten worse ones perverted

seafaring rigour as a he. A recurring receipt recently used trump of unleashing a torrent of hatred and a Fox news not come up ad from claims. This is because he declined to nominate a politician over Supreme Court that then Anthony Scar, mochi numbers coming in it number three Glenn back, listen. You did well in the west or there's. No, this is no way to win on either in either direction, no Darwin and neither direction. However, if you remember right, it was just. I was only savings as I was failing, Weird huh, that's happened yet now now you're now Glenn back staked out. This is from the Washington Post, Glenn back staked out principle ground against someone This really now retroactive admiration. Well, where was the principal ground support of blood back in twenty sixteen people? None

as someone who said quote, he could be one of the most dangerous precedents to overcoming the oval office. End quote, he could have been, he hasn't been allowed a he could be in there. Future about. He hasn't been. You know when when we had no evidence of what he would do in office, you're hurting ban. I was very nervous based his past performance. He hasn't been after trumps election. He pulled out Hitler comparison saying he s all the seeds of what happened in germs. In nineteen. Thirty three still see them to see them in the Republican Party seamen. The democratic party see them everywhere. If you're not seeing fascism communism on the horizon, while you're blind, you're blind from today. Even its trump has stoked racial divisions and split the country in a way back once too,

Hitler every day, I'd I'd! Oh that's from today. Even its trump has stoked racial divisions and split the country in a way back once decried. No, I still decry that. I still think racial division, is really bad. I still think that the way the president, you know says things like are depleted, don't builds. Please don't say that, but look at the media trump is the one doing it tenor when you, when you're calling literally every one of his foot others if they support him, a racist, Yo Stoke, whose real believing that credible back now says is prompt loses in twenty twenty. I think we're officially at the end of the country as we know it. Yes,

Have you looked at the others? I have you looked into the rip. The Democrats are running yeah, I think when they say yeah we're gonna get you out of the free market system and all these do. Executive orders on the constitution sounds like the end of the republic. The best of a bad that programme hey it's Glenn. But here on the programme is check out pad great unleashed his podcast available, where ever you download your favorite podcast Robert. We have rubber Estonia is an author editor long time, psychology researcher and professor thing with scientists to his passionate about educating the public about advances in mental Health and Behavioral sciences. Former editor, in chief of ecology today he is

how the senior research psychologist at the American Institute for Behavioral Research and technology and contributing Eddie refer scientific american mind yeah? He sounds like a dope and turn The crazy level up to ten after Robert Epstein are you, sir, well, it's been a rough couple days to do so. I mean here's a I mean. Here's, a group of people that you probably politically but agree with more for not being tracked by the person you voted for on Twitter, Well, I think Hillary Clinton should be ashamed of yourself. I mean you know I really just getting caught in the crossfire here between Trump and and Hilary a new president, sometimes

as you know, is his tweets are not exactly entirely accurate, an end. He did get a couple things like they wrong when I pleaded about my testimony before Congress, which was in July, and so we can tell you now get what he did a slightly wrong, but where Hilary dead is reprehensible, especially since I've been a strong supporter of the Clinton's for twenty years, I have signed the letter from Bill up above my death here, and what she did. It is a shameful is shameful, and what did she? What did she do? What did she do? Well, but she was replying to do to President President said that according to some guy, you know some reason

Future Google shifted between two point six and sixteen million votes to me and twenty sixteen. Well, I'm the researcher ideas. I testified before the Senate Judiciary Committee, in our in July, and yes, I gave estimates of between two point. Six and ten point four million sixteen million and also trim said that that that I said that a Google manipulated the election. I didn't I have never said that I said I found Pro Clinton bias in their search results sufficient to impact on this side and voters. Way that would shift that many votes, but ever said they manipulate The election I found what I measured was the virus, which I mean with indisputable.

Hilary replied to him saying that study has been deep bond, which is absent. Lately fast. Then seeing him and the whole study was based on twenty one voters. What I actually study what I actually captured and analyze, which no one has ever done before is I captured thirteen thousand, Two hundred and seven election related searches on Google being in Yahoo and then I'm the eighth, then web pages to which the search results linked we have allowed me to measure the buyers that people were seeing in search results, and there was substantial by some savour of plant in whom I support it. In all ten search positions on the first page of Google search results, but not any fires in being or Yahoo. So,

I found the bias and now based on experiments that I've been doing for six and a half years. I was able to tonight with that level of bias. How many votes could be shifted, because I know from again extensive experimental research Now his involve tens of thousands of participants, five national elections in four countries. I know precisely how a bias can shift opinions and votes, and that's where I got no, those numbers from so, again. Shrub got things slightly wrong, but were Hilary did was outrageous. My my research has never been debunk. At all I learned this rule of stories. I have no, I mean they're literally I'm not kidding you their hundreds of them all. Where the world and a few and conserving resources. Basically, this report, the facts,

and then all the mainstream sources are basically saying I'm incompetent which have never been accused of being my whole career. That again, this is my study, was debunked, etc, etc. Aramis I mean it's terrifying that did there could be so much bad information out there. This is this, is it is I think. This is why we are things are slowing down not towards socialism, not even towards nationalism? Those, I think we're going to speed up still, but the the Mai mentality that you have to be all in on somebody or you're a trader. I think that is actually starting to swing back to a normal kind of feeling, because average people are feeling what people like I have felt and other? It's like tea party. We have been feeling this for about ten years, It is terrifying me too,

it is a it's. A good goal is eight, terrifying, witch hunt and and don't worry, you gotta get your reputation back. Bob where'd you go I don't know- and you know you know what I was really accomplished into two thousand. Sixteen was setting up the first ever monitoring system to see what big tech companies were showing p. When there was ever done that before because tax power to shift opinions in boats and purchases and attitudes and beliefs around the world derives from what they. Turning to call a samurai experiences like search result say generated on the fly. They have an impact on your thinking they disappear. There they're, not start anywhere. That's all that an ephemeral experience as a Google Google people call it an ethics. Really powerful in shifting boats and opinions

I've shown in multiple experiments in publishing peer review journals. You can easily shift twenty percent or more of undecided voters up to eighty per cent in some detail. How are they how? How would they do that? If they are doing it? How would that then explain that to the the each person who has not heard this before. Ok, if first saw it can happen just because. They're not paying attention to their algorithm and the end. There algorithm. Of course always puts one dog food ahead of the other and in one day, spot, spite of the other can one candidate had of the other. It has no equal time rule built into it at once. It puts one candidate ahead of the other than that starts to have a dramatic impact on undecided voters. As more undecided voter shift the bias in search result. Gets a stronger that ships more

I voters, etc, etc and wagon effect. Call a digital bandwagon effect and I've measured. These things are precisely and again, twenty sixteen was a tremendous milestone near for us, because we actually bill Nielsen type system to look over people show there is with their promotion and see what these companies were, showing them, that we built a bigger system in twenty eighteen and twenty twenty we're trying to raise money to build. Bigger monitoring system, because you will never know Why the next presidential, wins, unless there has been extensive monitoring of all this ephemeral staff new seas, email, suppression, shadow, bearings, search, suggestions, search, results, etc, etc.

I am the only person in the world has ever built such systems and we have to have these systems or we will not understand. What is going on there and who why somebody water lost an election, the cells so Doktor, Robert Epstein Senior Research, psychologist American Institute for Beaver Research and technology. He is talking about Google, these algorithms, that are changing the way we behave the way we look the way we think all underground and how they have impact our elections. Is it my google researched? come with where people could donate if they wanted to do in the Yes, I'm glad. You have been more helpful to me in that regard than just about any that it you ve actually raise without you. Knowing I have just cause you keep giving up at length. You raised a lot of money while research. I want you to know that I believe this

is one of the most important things that we can do you are. You are Actually I think you agree with us your actually way behind where you should be, but you are who you are, light years ahead of any one else on the planet. Would you agree with? That positively and I've been through now by me the stream media witches. My media about that's my media nodded conservative tissues is incredible story. Ok, we have some some detailed questions and then I want to talk to you a little bit about what Google may be doing not only during this election but also with ice will get into that. I just like to pick your brain on on theories. If you had any of, you can donate, and I urge you I urge you in the strongest terms, if you have money that you can donate five box or you know a hundred thousand

ten dollars that you would consider this project. There is nothing more important than getting your arms around the algorithms at Google, my Google, search dot com, my google research dot com every day it seems somebody pops up in my world like what Doktor Robert Epstein just said. This is wait that they ve turned the guns on me, and this is my side. Look what they turn their guns on here. Peer review, now peer review doesn't matter. I thought that was the aisle and I'll be always was it now peer review? Those studies they're gone. How about the fact that all the sudden we're supposed to trust gigantic companies making decisions for us- and I think this is the exact opposite of what the left wanted in what you accompanies controlling all this information will benefits them in this particular moment, ignoring peer review benefits them in this particular moment, so they'll take out a guy who voted for them, which does a matter as a man doesn't matter, imperiling garbage. No, it's really horrible reprehensible

I urge you to donate at my Google research dotcom. Ok, may I call you Bob Robert Robert, if you like air robber, so Robert, we have some. Why should we went through the Vanity fair article? And if you read this article, if that's the way you were doing the research, it's crazy cry Would you agree with that? I I care He didn't really basing their hundreds of location where you go through it piece by piece, and you just tell us, is how you do it does not tell us how you do it for the first accusation. Here Robert. Is they basically say that the reason why you're going after Google is because you have a vendetta against them, because in two thousand twelve they warned visitors to your website that it had been hacked and serving malware to people.

Were reading it. Ok, I have no vendetta against good, I'm probably Google's biggest admirer in the world. Friends at Google, a yes, I guess I was website was hacked into. I've been twelve, as everyone's is eventually end and I got notify evidence by Google and that caught my eyes Why is Google notified me and not a government agency or non profit organization and then as a programmer? I entreat too, because Google was now blocking access to my website, not just through google dot com or through crown which they owned, but even through Safari, even your firefox, which, as you know, a nonprofit, run browser and I get curious. But how is happening? How can that be? How can Google block you through Genome Apple Safari, and so I start

If you just look at Google more seriously, I haven't got a vendetta. Guess that's absurd and then later that ear, there was research, early route, marketing research on the power of search rankings that eight power, that search aren't you have to influence people's clicks and purchases and that that made me think well as that It is true, then maybe search results could be used to shift opinions or even shift voting preferences, and so I started my first series of experiments looking at that, and it is it s not like it's not like your Glenn back doing this. You are the former editor in chief of psychology, today. You are also the senior research psychologist with American Institute for Behaviour, research and technology, your job

revolves around how people make decisions and what causes people to behave in certain ways. So, of course, you would be curious about this. Of course you would investigate it, because this problem, I think in a correct me, if I'm, if I'm wrong doctor, but I believe that in with maybe five years but in the next ten years, we're gonna, have to have a serious discussion on on, if you actually have free will, because of they're doing in nudging and and how they will use manipulate data while we're we're past glad you know in looking at at at Hilary horrendous tweet attacking me and the telling blatant lies about me. I mean we're way past that point of view. Having any free will ask, because you have to understand Hilary sweet by understanding how dependent she has been

for years and years, four votes and money from Google Google was her largest donor heard heard her chief technology officer Stephanie had and with a former Google eggs. Get over me. I could go on and on and on and on about the relationship, and she got that information that she tweeted from Google search as well is a little old circuitous this little bit of incestuous feeling here to some of them We do have a yes or no question. We have above thirty five forty seconds yeah. I don't think we can get into any some thirty second case. We want to get into a more than a car a couple more and then I want to ask you I don't have you saw this isn T the Google employees yesterday that I've Roma, China apparently but Google ploys were protesting in front of Google.

They want them to stop helping and working with ice and the border patrol, and my first question was wait. What is Google doing? with ice, and are they providing information to the government because I don't think that's kind of in the game plan or anybody is it? This is the best of the blend back programme. like listening to this path, cast if you're not a subscriber, become one now on Itunes, but while you're there do us a favour and rate the shell,

a man who began his journalism career in the bomb Bay based Indian, Express newspaper group. I don't even know how you would go about doing that. Kevin, William Sinister hello, Kevin area at health to have a friend in college whose family lives there, and I really she's in people's party. I ended up there. Ok, I know the first thing about so you were. You were a you started there in Bombay. We add you ever been to Bombay. I've never been outside of the United States, Senator mexican border towns rising up in taxes. Yes, oh it's a little different than excess the? U S or Mexico yeah, I'm! You know when I got there, no one, even you with a population of Bombay. Was that point the nineties, because it was such a crazy chaotic place. They thought maybe twenty million, maybe twenty five million it was ever, is a great place to be a newspaper guy, because everyone read newspapers there near typical household would get four five newspapers today. So I'll tremendously fun place too

the newspaper gear and then he became a theatre critic. Ah, some years later, Yemen is living in New York. I read theatre com for the new criterion for a while, but aren't you me? Don't you have to be an old cantankerous bitter man Do that or are you I've been an old angers at a man sat out about eleven matter and a guy that kind of growing in dry or get your body is starting to catch up on Fourchan I've been waiting for my return gray for yeah yeah, yeah yeah. Don't wish because I want I always wanted my hair because everybody in my family, my thirty their white and it took me to fifty and now- and I was like- well everybody. But the great white hair, and now I haven't done like good God. You look like you're a thousand years, all right, so you ve written and you written a new book, the smallest minority, by borderline, poverty level. Angry breathin work, so I I just I find you can't read from this

work on the radio USA dollars. None paragraph there's one paragraph that I'm I'm not going to read, but I'd like you to read, because it is one of the greatest screens of all time. I don't know if I can find it here. It was you describing you describing people that you, you know you have to shoot at other. Oh here it is here. It is. It is a pick it up right here, What seems like testimony you're like I did you write that everyone knows I'm a monster to you a new everyone. I know my work, everyone I too a monster to the end of that paragraph on the next pay. I would much rather you re a new gown under our noses upwards in and I can't even dream she read your own were now.

This is like when you got a read it, but what I meant to well. I should sometimes the sentences the got left. They include areas, man, you wouldn't believe your original version This is after at it, Sicily, boldly version home again. Because that is the first paragraph. Let us start every

knows I'm a monster in by everybody. I mean all good, decent, serious newspaper analogue reading people, him by all good, decent, serious newspaper analogue reading people. I mean you sad atavistic master, Tory specimens out there in the wilds of America, by which I mean you put pounding nobody's in Brooklyn, garment Oklahoma, depending on your tribe, obsessive, following intermediate squabbles on social media. Cheering for what you imagine to be your side, like a bunch of marginally employment, pass your time, and I felt cheering leg tat to do shrug it's at some ghastly accords bar and enjoying a nice bottle of the warm and comforting illusion of solidarity as their Tom Brady Olympian Bell would have taken the voluminous white piss on you hide if you're smouldering crackling on the sidelines seriously plate of hands now requested. It would have taken me a week earlier about locking did that. Take you to write to them is poor.

Are they did read? I've gotta be rather hookers. You got a bunch of vote notes and most of the book is sort of half way like a normal political bargaining. The footnotes which you're about maybe a quarter. The Burke are the kind of commentary bottom. Actually, thinking is right. The stuff footnotes were the part that were problematic for others. I didn't like it now share with you yeah. Maybe you can share and cast a part of the ongoing sharing your podcast real well. Did you think that it would go in our you're? Just like I don't care, I will just give it a shot. You now gradually. I like working with regular when they put out the press release for this book. They called it you holiest and profane this before the book was done. I figure they're gonna put profane the press release s license right, I think dry, agony,

Ah I write and you did kind I am yeah and you did so so. Take me. Take me throat, I wanna we're gonna talk about it. We're gonna do a pod, castor today for broadcasting couple weeks, but an end will go through all of it. But take me through the the premise of the of the book. He asked our random leave out any of the year the Serbia or during the broken in twenty fifteen after arena witnessing a number these dumb new kind of twitter mob Freak out, the alot of more will exactly a clear political people. Are you in the justice Sacco Business in the guy getting can from Google and all that and on their somebody me that seemed weird and can ritual listing this stuff. It was a kind of public ceremony. It wasn't really something that was about the issues at a pretended to be about and saw a rope. The book at that time in a book propose one. I sit around and nobody wanted it and Couple years later, I went to work for the Atlantic for three days and got fired,

my phone started arraigned before I got to the airport literally and us waiting on the plane to her to come under the taxes and people were suddenly it shouldn't go figure than ill will an ill wind that blows Minos some good bottom. So book is about some of the social and political reasons for why people have become so hysterical am theatrical in terms of their political engagement. What I really ultimately argues, it's not really about politics is that people have a certain emptiness in their lives in a sense that they lack Kinect Agnes and on these medium of nominal and social media in this can perform it. If the actual hysterical politics gives them a false sense of having being involved in something important, it gives him a sense that they been involved in something meaningful when they're not, but it is a kind of feels good, and so people go to it in this weird addictive compulsive way. So, suddenly politics, it's happening on Twitter.

It's weird, embarrassing public group therapy session and adds essentially with the book is about so it, but it is its being used by politics, sure yeah. We just had I access to almost every day now I meet somebody. And usually now from the other side that is has just been affected, lost their job losses, but we just had a really brilliant psychiatrist on with so few a few minutes ago and he. He is now being targeted by Google and Clinton who he voted for he's a fan of of Google Amy. As respect for Google and an Clinton he said, I'm I've got a letter from building hanging about my desk and now they're taking mountain saying that I'm a monster YAP there's a bitten Coriolanus about that. How you know you're the favourite one day in a villain next day and that's that seems to be the case of it. I want

you can get into the book. Allied is the emergence of that very thing of the use of employment as a weapon of political cohesion, and I think that's a really interesting subject follow upon, because this phenomenon of demand for homogeneity and conformity is not really so much a problem for people like you or me. I mean we're in the in the controversy businesses what we do. You know, maybe illusion advertise you here and then maybe loser again here there, but you know that's kind of what we do. It's a much much bigger problem. If your cylinders trying to manage a starving,

Philadelphia, any gonna lose your job, because you're enforcing company policy becomes a viral twitter phenomenon or fear programmer Google or you're someone who works at a banker, someone who's a hairdresser. I lake examples of these people and their kind of you know. Psychic terrorism is effective and now people know just not to voice opinions in the first place, if there anyway afraid that it might be unpopular non conforming. I will tell you. I think that I would have agreed with you just a few years ago, but I believe my voice and that I didn't feel this way, a fox, ok and they were coming after me like crazy. I do believe my voice could be silenced. I could be erased now from history and just not me just gone you thank yeah. You don't I think you will not very if you saw awful lot of books, nominal flutter listeners, I think, would be hard to do that and buy a lot of vat, and I think maybe we we reminded the

the Navy seals when they turn dark in their work and for the barbaric acts in coming to me at night. A lot of this Dublin. It comes to people like you there. I think- and I think you saw this really in the rosy and bar case where the public twitter, mob phenomenon is really a pretext for things. It. Going on inside the company. You know, no one at ABC is making multi million dollar programming decisions based on what at Caitlin three too, begin on Twitter. How about you know Roseanne bar I right, but I didn't lose my job with the Atlantic, because we were thinking out on Twitter. I lost my job. The Atlantic because of things were going on on staff in the company, and that is to be the case. I think more for people like us in the EU and have seen this in the end, the positive outcomes to with I'll say a kind word than you are times which has had several of its writers in people targeted in this way, and they said where they are times we harder we like and were gonna keep rest even on the staff and delay to like it

that's the way. Premier. Radio is a reason. Why were still on radio is because of Iheart is an amazing company that, just like I don't care wearily, I don't get we'll put any voice on and as long as dont lose our licence in their generally responsible. We don't care with their opinion, is will put them on and we don't care what at the mob says, yeah it's going to be up to institutions to stand up to this kind of thing, because you individuals, even in a once, had have some outlet like. I do. I'm really rely on it solutions to me to be the ones were going to stand and one guard on it. But that's what I mean. I think that you know you could raise, because Google is quickly becoming every outlet right. It's becoming the eminent give you're, not with Google you're, not around. That's what I misunderstood things about this. You know

that freak out about James to more Google was not about some nobody programmer that no one cares about. It was about Google, it's not about, we can get as far as we can make Google jump when we say job and we can make Facebook jump when we say job and we can make the New York Times. We read a headline when we seven Europe Times can rewrite a headline so that the people involved and, as you know, get fired or otherwise are really just sort of instruments there. There props for this, this great active theatre, it's more about controlling the institutions and that's where institutions really had to stand up for themselves and that's the shame of particularly university culture. We ve got a bunch of action. Makes you I'm depend on intellectual honesty and intellectual freedom, but will not stand up for it in their earnest. So I'd like to, may I changed the subjects a bit here cover with you and go to read flagging sure. Ah,

I just got a listener sent in a fund raising peace from a senator in where was it Pennsylvania that was making the case that we must have read flagging If your thoughts on what's happening, I don't understand the basic case for red flag law, so David French National Review and I've debated about this a little bit on the corner. I kind of just trust the the whole premise of it, but what's uses the examples that we have these laws for in voluntarily committing people for mental care when they seem to present media threat to themselves or others and there's a process, thereby which judge and a doctor involved, and we ve got this way of doing it. So they were used is the basis of the red flags laws, the red flag, long. I think that ought to be the Red flag law, but if you think someone actually is danger to himself

or some one else. They should, rather than messing around whether the person can buy a gun. Ah then we should- probably you know, intermittent persons under is under as under mental health care. So I think, to that extent we ve already got the Red flag law that we need an people will say: well, it's it's it's very onerous and its. To get through this process in its hard to do. It should be exactly how we wanted we're talking about the bill of rights here And I'm I'm I'm always pretty crazy about the idea of suspending anyone, civil rights when they have been charged with a crime or convicted of a crime or yet you and arrested for a crime. We are taking look if, if somebody comes in and if I can I come in the day- and I say I got pop tarts-

I pants. I popped arts in my pants and meaning pop cards from my pants. You might say plan you might you know at once, take the day off, you might call Tony and say he might need to see a doctor, but if I'm coming in with a gun or I'm dangerous, then you might call police and I should be taken to the doctor and a doctor and a judge should decide with my wife, if maybe I we have more than pop tarts may have guns, and maybe that's a danger. That's the way you deal with it. What they're trying to do is with his red flag law. Nobody will take it that far. Nobody will take it that far, but I'm telling you right now, you can't tell me that there aren't a lot of people who have been divorced, that in that divorce proceeding. Somebody might say you know what man he's dangerous and he's got a lotta guns.

Yeah. When I think about having been a small town newspaper editors, you spend a lot of time. Reading court records of this very thing. She did divorce cases, custody cases and stuff like that, and you probably half of the death threats or ever gotten my life, where editing small town newspaper in writing. A DUI story about some guy was in a custody dispute with his wife and thinks he's going to kids, because this thing comes up and the sorts of accusations that are made in those situations tend to be often irresponsible and there's not much of a downside for doing it. We don't really retaliate against people. For that sort of thing. I don't have as much faith as a lot of conservatives do in the law, enforcement and prosecutorial apparatus. Otherwise I think that the prosecutors or a bigger problem than the police officers are the most part, and I don't really trust them with are they already have and to give them additional power on top of that to essentially making and run round the bill of rights. Now I'm gonna take some convinced.

Yeah, I'm gonna, take a little. Cannot I dont think I don't think a lot of America's needing a lotta convincing altogether. The really maddening thing about this is that, even if you look at say the: U S, attorney's office, four per Illinois, they will not prosecutor straw by your case, there is one other thing: it's worth their time, unless it's part of a big organised crime investigation, the current conviction rate for ah illegal handgun cases in Chicago areas about fourteen percent. We ve got laws on the books that we ought to be enforcing. We really ought to be going after strawberries. We ought to be going after people for minor weapons charges before they become homicides, and we ve got a lot of things that we could be doing on this front, that we simply refused to do because law enforcement is basically lazy. Ah, if you. Oliver gun control proposals are targeted at licensed, gun dealers and the people who do business with him. They got addresses in business hours and renders really easy to police, whereas As you are selling you know, clock sounded the trunk of their car off the interface somewhere. A lot harder to crack are met

with Kevin Williamson in the blaze radio network on demand,