« The Glenn Beck Program

Ep 104 | Dangerous Tech Oligarchs Who Answer to No One | Glenn Greenwald | The Glenn Beck Podcast


Have you noticed how the people who call everyone a conspiracy theorist are the biggest conspiracy theorists of all? Like the Russia Collusion conspiracy theory that the Washington elite used to discredit Trump and force him out of Washington, D.C. Or how the CIA is the real power center of American politics. Glenn Greenwald, Pulitzer-Prize-winning journalist and author of the new book, “Securing Democracy: My Fight for Press Freedom and Justice in Bolsonaro’s Brazil,” is an outsider in the media because he calls out these abuses of power. For one, he agrees that the Deep State is real. Greenwald is a rare breed these days: He does actual journalism. He explains things very well, like his description of Trump’s appeal and Obama’s mystique. 

He and Glenn cover so many topics: Woke corporations, Julian Assange, the #MeToo movement, Putin, Snowden, The Constitution, Big Tech censorship. Why does the Left call Greenwald right-wing but the Right calls him left-wing? For a journalist, that used to be a badge of honor. But as Greenwald points out, the journalism industry has become a Woke priesthood. So, if you want to learn about actual journalism, listen to this episode. It’s totally worth getting through a couple of technical difficulties. 



Staying healthy is tough, especially if you have a sweet tooth.

Fortunately, there’s Built Bars! They’re made with real chocolate, high in protein and low in calories and carbs, and taste exactly like a candy bar. Go to https://BuiltBar.com and use promo code “BECK15” to save 15% off your next order.]


Whether you’re catching up on your favorite news podcast, binging an audiobook, or powering through your workout with a pumped-up playlist, a pair of Raycons in your ears can make all the difference. Get 15% off your entire Raycon order at http://BuyRaycon.com/Glenn

You didn’t start your business because you wanted to spend time on HR compliance. From onboarding to terminations, Bambee customize your policies to fit your business - and help you manage your employees day to day - all for just NINETY-NINE DOLLARS a month. Month-to-month, no hidden fees, cancel anytime.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
They welcome today's podcast. It is no secret that Americans are fed up with the state of journalism. Is a recent gallup poll that determine seven and ten American see bias in media and consider it as a problem, leaving the journalists are actively trying to persuade people to adopt a position. I noticed at the same time, eight and ten Americans believe the journalism is important for democracy. It is its critical. Mass not the way. It's being done now not like this. What we're seeing is activism that hides itself behind headlines if there's any hope for the survival of journalism in Amerika we need, or people like today's guest he's. Maybe one of five people alive actually doing the job a journalist and of those five. would say he is one of the best and most daring
which means you're about to hear my discussion with the best journalist alive, or at least one of them, maybe it will be remembered as the best journalist of our era, the pie proof of this is that corporate media has turned against him. One They called him a bomb throwing media critic Andrew Raw Sorkin implied that he should be arrested. He says that He says things make people uncomfortable, but that's what journalism is and he makes people uncomfortable regardless of their politics. He's been report on politics for about fifteen years now, if you remember the explosive series of articles in twenty thirteen about Edward Snowden in the USA, released in the guardian, It was him Pulitzer Prize for his reporting on that pretty much the Only Pulitzer Prize Winning story that basically everyone knows about here-
since gone to were gone. Do incredible things in twenty fourteen. He launched the intercept because he was worried about rampant bias and censorship in the media, now. How do I know this? Guy stands by its principles because last year. He left the intercept the news outlet he founded has she said it's the same, biased and censorship that I've set out to up- and I can be a part of this in twenty eleven- he moved to Brazil for political reasons which will get into and twenty nineteen he became embroiled in a political converse, controversy that reached all the way up to the new president of Brazil. Details. All of it is incredible: new book titled securing democracy, my fight. for press freedom and justice in Brazil. Today's podcast guest welcome, Glenn Green Walled hey, healthy, is tough enough, especially if you like me in Europe,
fat, so you need have no self control we just round the corner on the new year and I for one have resolved to lose weight this year and I've lost maybe fifteen pounds, but it doesn't look like it and feel like it and I'll. Tell you the only reason why I have a chance of doing it is because a bill bars it's not a protein, but I mean it is a protein bar, but it's not a digital age should never say protein bar on it. That's like saying, ah tastes like chemicals, it doesn't it not like eating. You know the stuffing out of an old couch that has been funded on for a long time build bar as are made with real chocolate and they taste exactly like a candy bar. There meant- and Brownie chunk is my favorite end. It is it's unbelievable and their high protein low in calories low in carbs we're talking three to five net carbs. So its increase
well, if you're doing something like the Kido diet. Best of all the flavors are really amazing: cooking cream raspberry Raspberry chocolate, Mint Brownie the list goes on and on and on to try for yourself. It's built bar, dot com, mused promo go back, fifteen, say fifteen percent off your next order. You a promo code, back fifteen for fish, seen percent off now it built bar dotcom plan, it's great to have you on the pod cast. Thank you for joining me, yeah great stock. You are thank you for inviting me I tell you you are confusing at times or have been. We live in really confusing times and you dont really ever know anybody's true intent until
back is up against the wall, and when I saw your own company, the company that you started, the intercept and you came out against it and said: look. This is the same. This is the why I started this. To get away from this crap, and you left I was really impressed when you would call out your own business and the things that you have done well for a long time, but mainly recently, in Brazil what you ve done is remarkable and very brave thanks. You know with the intercept YO, it is different called it wasn't fun to do that, because that was Sunday night I had created with two. My closest friends in journalism, two journalists, for whom I have a lot of respect at the height of the student story. When we had a lot of leverage,
and the idea was to create a media outlets that would give journalist complete journalistic freedom and editorial independence of a kind that I always wanted in work to preserve for myself. The idea was to give it to other journalists and so had this media company, which I devoted so much of my energy and time and now important to me in terms of what I thought we were building and what it was going to stand for in journalism. Turnaround in China betray every single one of those values. Out of really nothing more than this paddy fear that people in their circles would accuse them of risking. I trust victory by doing their jobs and reporting on Joe Biden, we is kind of what happened to them in twenty sixteen when he reported extensively on Hillary Clinton and they spend four years being told or you help Trump win, they are petrified that that would happen again and they were to throw everything overboard, including their basic function, is journalists in order to support
the story they even the thing that was the straw that broke the camel's back for me, was about a week before telling me that my story didn't meet their lofty added Torreon Standard published an article that assent We just did nothing but parrot. claim by a bunch. Maxie, eight officials, like John Run, in that your binding document or russian disinformation to eyes. In one phrase that came from Russia and that this the documents were forged, they publish that even the. Were created to be adversarial to the intelligence community by price story. Didn't meat, Their high minded journalism so that what is really so may I can with eight I I don't know, what's happened or if we can ever really recover their enough people in journalism now or does it have to be a total reset? You know really think they'd what what happened was.
journalism is really dying before tramp tramp was kind of vision. Sugar high that that save them what happened was they started believing their own pr that they were that tromp was essentially the equivalent of of Adolf Hitler, Antichrist yeah yeah yeah they created this demented fiction and then cast themselves as the star. Dennis fighting on the front lines to save everything good in the world and came to believe that anything was just in pursuit of that that battle and I think they still are seeing themselves that way. There continuously another, so disappointed that trumpets disappeared. You know they ve lost the trust and faith of the public, a mean it's at an all time low and no, I don't think it's coming back because they don't think they ve done anything wrong. There's no self critique and all I think, we're gonna happen is more independent outlet like the one that you're doing like the place where I am now, writing and other places are going to continue to grow at their expense. I will
are you that I don't know if you know this, but I was not a fan of Donald Trump before he got in office and then watched him, and I mean in a way. Begrudgingly said: ok, he's not doing the crazy things that I thought I was gonna do and is actually doing some things that I without any president, would do in a good way. Still the way he talks in the another tweets and everything else, but you gotta be honest and when the russian thing happened, I actually thought that was probably true, but that it was actually probably true? I could see that pollution bar you Don T, J, AI earns, but also the collusion virus. True yeah, I thought that was probably true at, but I wanted to see the facts and when The facts didn't appear and everything was nazi, Oh, you know Hitler gas chamber level, They lost credibility and they actually it wasn't.
it was the facts that drove me to say: this is not true and these guys are out to get em, but it actually pushed me to be a bigger supporter than I think I ever would have been, because they were so clearly out to get this guy. It was it was like. I have never seen anything like it. yeah and you know I found it to be a threat to democracy, because what actually happened was whenever you think about Trump and ballerina twenty six election, and nobody wanted to win a Trump one, fair and square, I ve got you got more electron. this and under the constitution became the legitimate president. And the reality is that many power centres, the United States, simply never accepted that outcome, because it wasn't the one they wanted and they felt threatened by it Oh they devote themselves to
doing everything they could first to preventing him from winning and then subverting his presidency one. He won in ways that are really quite menacing too to democracy, the whole Russia gate. Script came from the CIA wage no, it is not for us to have any involvement and our domestic politics, and yet because he was imagining things like the ongoing value of NATO, which was originally created to be a bulwark against the country that no longer exists or the regime change operation in Syria, which was their highest priority meaner running against the Iraq war. Talking about you know the Pentagon getting weapon systems that we don't need in order to enrich lobbyists and rainy on board of directors. All these things that were very threatening to real entrench power centres and Washington Use this partnership that they always had throughout the cold war? With with the major media outlets they just set out to destroy his presidency in a way that I found infinitely more menacing, then
whenever one might think about Donald Trump, only things that he was doing- oh my god, I mean the the way they used the Pfizer Courts, and I mean, if you can set out and do this to the President of the United States, the regular Joe doesn't have a chance, not a chance. You know Glenn were driving about and when I was on, your show first time you and I spoke when we met, I was in TAT, says I was hoping we spend less time talking about the Snowden reporting I did with the the USA and obviously you know that in a cause of mine for a long time, is the danger posed by this enormous spying system, and we Edward soon decided to come forward after spending as life inside of these agencies, because he originally believed in them. He volunteered for their act war. You know he works for the CIA or cleaner, say with his father was in the coastguard. He was not a levelling radical by any means donated money to IRAN Paul when he
forward it was because he said there turning this on the american people, there now this is no longer a weapons system being used against foreign adversaries. In you know, I do think that the scandal of the FBI getting caught lying to the devise a court order spend Eu Citizen Carter page who, even furthermore, concluded. There is no evidence to suggest you, as ever. a russian agent, let alone engaging in the various conduct on behalf of the Kremlin is major major schooner, meaning that the ILO went to jail for four lying or was convicted of perjury. Those abuses of power, if you inverted them mean the kind of stupid J Edgar Hoover did that Jerusalem hardly did that people in an excellent certain did that caused a major scandal. You know we need to reform the intelligence here. I don't even think Nobody even remembers that, What really frightens me Glenn. Is that a lot,
the people that were involved in some of these scandals are now back in the administration it doesn't seem like there's ever going to be a report that is released or nobody's gonna, be held accountable and you four years of doing nothing except making that deep state If you will even stronger. I mean if Peter no pay for their crimes teaches the next group of people they wanna do crime. We get away with it as long as we're on the right side of you know the press or whoever Yeah you're so funny I wouldn't to call in January of twenty seventeen, either days before days after trumps inauguration, the headline of which was the deep state goes to world than me. The president end. I think his rifle- and by who spoke about that's right now we get started claiming that I was the person do at invented. This phrase and liberals also thought this
His newly invented conspiracy theory by the right wing by Trump supporters when, in reality, the idea of a deep state end in the United States is something that three eyes at our among political scientists. Yet I mean I didn't. I didn't even call it that he called to the military. Industrial complex would have the same message, a message he was. You know, president for here- is one the CIA was created and grew, and he had one. You know he had fifteen in its to warn the country on his way out about what, whenever he not, they should know what he said Here's what I want to warn you about. There's this permanent faction in that entrenching itself? That's more powerful than elected officials, that is this military industrial complex, that's infecting every hall of academia and every hollowed power and its influence is going to threaten democracy. This is before the Vietnam WAR before
in nine eleven before the gigantic growth from both of those in throughout the decade, it's in a futile. If you're, not veto, can recognize the existence of the deep state and, if you're not concerned about it, you know nothing about american politics and how our in the? U S, government functions. to tell you, I thought the phrase I was really uncomfortable it beginning of deep state. I you know it, it implies like a star chamber in and everything else we all you have to do- is really go back in red eyes, an hour? You know he Talk about it's going to invest in the colleges and universities. It's going to start funding projects where it's not really an honest question. It's a question to further their agenda. It will infiltrate everything and destroy everything that's what it is. That's what it is. I am afraid that we are now at a point to wear.
Congress and the Senate, and the White House I think, really on whoever gets in. I think tromp was a. He was such a cannonball or a grenade that I think he was blowing things up, that he didn't even know he was blowing up. You know, and so he was frightening to everybody But I wonder now, if, if with the way that the corporations are getting involved in clan, I'm not a guy. I always used to think I, like you know you we'd watch. What was it that movie with Harrison Blade runner, and you know they do I work for the corporation. We like stop it, stop it always been free market guy, a cabinet corporation yeah, the the free market. Is not free. These guys have embedded themselves with Congress with the with the both political parties
with the media, we are headed for an oligarchy and I dont see way out This is you know this to me is: is it you're absolutely right and it's menacing an alarming, but I also see an opportunity be here, and this has been part of one of the primary new projects that I feel like it. devoting myself too, which is What you just said, fine support on both the left and the right answer very interesting right because of you the nutritional division on economic debate between the rain, not as always been people on their ate. Like yourself, if you just said, I support free market economics and the capitalist operations are not eat, em, all their dis entities, doing business buying and selling making profit, as the engine of american life people on the left. You, India and the government should say out people,
wanted government intervention in the market place. We want government intervention to redistribute wealth on behalf of the poorest on behalf of the most marginalized, because as inequalities in the debate Neither am I dont, have a weary at economics to go away, leaving with constantly we met? We missed some of you glitch on us for a second. Can you go back to saying at it good yeah yeah, you know, that's been. Those are the contours of of traditional left right economic debate in in it in what we have now is neither of those right. We don't have free market economics. The government intervenes constantly. economy. That's why corporations pay lobbyists, people who get out of Congress and they enrich them to use their influence on their behalf. The government intervenes constantly, but they're not intervening on behalf of the poor, their intervening on behalf of these giant
corporations that have no allegiance to United States, its crony capitalism. It's not free market capitalism, nor socialism. It's it's kind of it's what you said it's oligarchy, and now the corporations are becoming even more overt and open about their willingness to come, become involved in what was always partisan disputes that they steadfastly avoided Is it really alarming right? The used always intervene in government in lawmaking processes for their own benefit. They would you know that their lobby, negotiate for a tax break that benefited their company things in the right up interest their way beyond that now right there. Now wanting to be the arbiters of how many protections we can have against voting fraud in when it spells into voter suppression or what proper policing policy should be things for which they have no competence, but their and our names concentrated power enables them to throw their weight around in a way that democracy could easily be subverted. Hey. How
listen into this spot cast right now he list into it on buds, may, I suggest, the most comfortable pair, the a pair that Akashi about half the price, and you know they're good, because your children will try to steal them? is re con, ear buds? They are really great. So of your or listening to your favorite podcast. Bringing me you know and audio book out powering through it and while you're working out or do you just like listening to music, cons in years, make all the difference no dangling wires, no stupid little white stems. They hang out rake come in a range of stylist colors there, always comfortable. They have an in ear fit, really discreet. Look, but they do you. Change the paths autumn, so they fit your ears, no matter what size they are re cons, perform anywhere any time. Water resistance, wet resistant and the blue, to the Paris quickly in seamlessly and with
battery life for six hours of playtime What for awhile best part recall eggs, great sound, accessible to everyone. Half the price of those apple, comfortable pieces anyway, rake is offering fifteen percent or follow their products for listers of this body cast right now, all you have to do is go to by re con dot com, Slash Glenn, that's it! fifteen percent off your entire recon order feel grab a pair and despair. Its fifteen percent off now add by re con dot com, slash Glenn its it's it's a new government, really I mean they're setting up it's it's the most brilliant. In my opinion, if I could, detached if I was just watching this is if this was just a thriller, and I could do catch my emotions from it. I would say this is brilliant its brilliant and run around the people, the constitution, all of it- and it's
And it's got people on the right saying well their private corporation, so they you no can do what they know they. I didn't elect the head of the soda pop company. Tell me what our policy should be, and- It's now being it's it's this with the World Economic Forum. I don't know if you're doing anything on the great reset, but could God if, if that is actually happening, if this is what's empowering these people, we as a planet are going for a giant oligarchy. It is high tech that is allowing them to squash anybody whose warning about it and media united there is, I think, one of the most interesting thing that has happened in the last couple months: three months, is when faced in twitter, massively also a commonality platforms. United,
to remove the sitting president, the United States from the internet. To deny had the opportunity to communicate with hundreds of millions of people the people who cheered that were american journalists, because, paradoxically, journalists who are supposed to defend principles of free expression, free speech and a free press are in fact the most aggressive advocates for iter, censorship they're, the ones who agitated for it, but the people who denounced it or world leaders, including many Hugh no love. Loss for Donald Trump, Angela Merkel in Germany and the Mccrone government in France and even the President of Mexico. President Lopez Oberdoffer, whose you said in a really eloquent press conference, will creating of this world government. These cap oligarchy answerable to nobody and now Jack. You know, that's it,
Angela Merkel was saying to what she was saying. Look you know here in Germany. We do believe in regulations on speech, but if you're gonna have them, it has to be democratic process that decides and the law makers who are elected by the people. This is not there this is unaffected, In other words, all again, deciding, who can and cannot be, Even the most powerful elected leader in it, I didn't. Even they were alarmed by the only people who were american journalist I apologise to the podcast listers further glitch, but you are actually at home and I'm gonna get into this cause. Your new book is fascinating, like cannot put down a fascinating what you ve gone through in the reason why you're at home and you're not leaving unless you have on armored car and security with you we want to get into that, but I
I want to just kind of sweep up some of the other things that are happening for first. Let me go back to the great reset, no world economic forum, I have had a phone calls from. You know at least one of the biggest banks in Amerika. I did one show the great reset and talked about how the model is. The wish model is, is it you'll have a score? Everyone will have a score and if you're not doing the right things for he s, G, you'll school, your score will go down and you become a risk to the system and you won't be able to have banking services or whatever they didn't correct any. They didn't want a correction on air. They didn't correct anything that I was laying out or deny any of the documents or that some We are now doing this. Many over in France. And yet they wanted me to understand that they will
be nefarious, that's that's not they are there doing. This is a public, service are, you looking into the great reset, and if you have this a. What? What are you feelings on it? of course, for us all, that's already being done in China ripe he's kind of life. You know numeric or quantitative evaluations of areas it has ended and then determining which rights they do and don't have its becoming. Increasingly digitize are there no humans making these decisions, it's all been algorithmic late and I think the China is she was so interesting because traditionally, when the United States decide to their adversaries are and who their allies are the.
Powers enters the United States. The military centres in and high finance are generally on the same page. So if you know they want to sanction the Russians or the iranian or the Venezuelans wall He doesn't really mind the Pentagon's on board with dead in the key If China, you have military planners, you see China as his adversary, but why street. and Silicon Valley are in bed with the Chinese, their tied up ahead to them, and The things that's happening is that chinese model is competing with the american model for what is going to be hegemonic in the world and it seems like the chinese model is prevailing and they have a really powerful partner is any it states
you know these, you see these, you know, NBA stars encroaches and officials and applauded workers are so brave because they recite liberal pieties about black eyes. Matter Oh they're, so brave, a wonderful, don't wanna ask allow European jobs and or on. Suddenly clam up, and that shows you who their masters are, whose action drawing, and I think that that one of the real dangers is not that change in the: U S organic this kind of that hang, I we got it, we gotta stop every second. If you didn't east, we aiming at, we has actually unsolved as international. I stay global aid in a way that will start to affect how we live as well. We lost you on the last like two minutes there horribly I think it's when you move so tat
to do the ok. I like Ireland will try and be very well. I will tell tee I got EDGAR Bergen, just not move your lips, yeah, ok, so you're saying about the that, the Chinese for years we ve been reading politicians and mainly Wall Street, say China is the new model I, want. China is the want to live like Chinese. Do I don't want that model? one night when Michael Bloomberg was running for president. There were a lot of clothes that emerged where, prior to his running, they were ask him about the chinese government. You can find him heaping praise on them, refusing to call them the dictograph dictatorship. Refusing recalled them reprocessing right, depend so much
Chinese and is one of them. You know nauseating ironies of these companies, like Nike in banks and finance companies. Putting black lives map images there Instagram page in the lake is that We rely on China in Crete, Lee are they move their fat right, they moved up regarding United States, they move them to change their slave labour, whether such opticians, where there's child labour law. I apologise get him. Can you dialing back up? Please he is in Brazil, and I have waited a long time for this interview, a person him here to reach is currently unavailable. Please leave a message after the beat
hey Glenn, its Glenn. So that's what happened yesterday and we decided that we would meet again today. And after I lost contact here with our studios three or four times today for some unknown reason. The our approach to an I didn't think it was gonna happen. I don't know if it's the universe, saying that there's two guys that are using way too many ends in their first name or what but Glenn Glitt Green Walled is now in a different city with high speed internet, welcome Now I d reports is the same as for the good things are made. actually work for them, Sir Kay than we ever came them. Thank you so much. So we were talking about
China, when last we laughed and the state of China and the relationship with the oh oligarchs here in Amerika, with the oligarchs in China right and you know it was interesting. There is a speech I actually covered from a given by a Chinese, sort of high finance. Somebody very connected to the Chinese Communist Party. I believe it weighs shortly after bindings inauguration. It might have been shortly before and he point was that with Trump it was very difficult for China to exercise kind of influence they were accustomed to exercising in Washington. He was saying what we ve got a problem in Washington in the past. We that all these pass to be able to resolve them under Clinton under a bomb. I even with Bush, Cheney and applause. with Trump. Is that you never really was in bed?
with support of Wall Street, and that was their path then, and with bite in he was saying with great excitement. Bad normalcy was going to be restored because they would now influence to yield again in Washington through Wall Street. So Glinda. Isn't that exactly the opposite of what the american people want? I mean to say what you want about Donald Trump: he was a massive disruptor. It seems as though that's kind of what The american needs is a real disruption of politics and business as usual, everybody's gotten very comfortable at the high end, and they say whatever they have to do to get elected and then no matter which party it is, they follow the same path
I think we're seeing that trend throughout the democratic world. Actually right in the entire led, the NEO Liberal, led in the United Kingdom words warning everybody that breaks. It would be this unmitigated disaster and the voters said we don't really care what you think. In fact, the fact that your opposed abreks it makes us think that it's likely something we ought about poor allotted it was despite voting out of anger here in Brazil, where I am just write a book about furred twenty years the country was a centre left governments run by the workers party in and out of nowhere, this kind of far right, authoritarian figure was elected to the presidency's desirable snarl, and the same thing happened in the: U S where he was eight years of Obama. and suddenly Trump gotta have acted, and there are millions of Obama. Voters.
Four trump, which makes no reference to you know. People who are political and media leads because they can only see the world through. This stunted laugh right. Prison by those people makes a lot of sense, and what did all those people having common brags tramples on our own, even Obama when he ran in two thousand and eight yet Iraq, claiming that they were going to be as outside force to come in and sort of burn the entire system down, which is what people want more? Are there any idea, ideology so I think your eggs, the I know you are you're exactly right. When Obama said on I've never heard anybody else say this. When Obama said hoping change, I didn't like what I thought he was gonna change it to, but I all on board for open change, transparency, cleaning up the swamp, doing all that stuff and then he never did any of it. He became the swamp. Donald Trump, I think, has still a lot of support because he never became one of the in people and
all of the people. In the end, I think this happening all around the world. All the people who are not on the inner circle there, not one of the experts there, just one of the people whose voice it was supposed to matter want somebody like them and they ll forgive them for aught on as long as they don't become one of the elites it's so amazing, because in I lived in New York for fifteen years through you know, starting in the early nineties, Amy's into the two thousand and the persona, Donald Trump EMU is a new Yorker. Pure that's where he gained his fame ended. The persona trump always lies that he was a kid from Queens Switch, Unum, rich men at nights and old money money at wicker. condescension at best and there was always coming this resentment on his part. You know that's why he would go into Manhattan and he would have to build the tallest building because he felt A key ways exclude
and from high society Manhattan, which you gonna, they look at me like this kind, a cloud the endless yeah, exactly they really looked down. There knows him all the time and with a bonnet, was exactly the opposite. Obama's path was the purest apples from passing, went to Colombia. He was the editor in chief of the Harvard of all review. He was always an establishment vigour. He always appeased establishment power. So when Obama got into office he instantly integrated into the things he had promised to destroy. You know it. Finance Wall Street supported him overwhelmingly in two thousand and eight Eu Law of the sea. I and all those you no kind of black excited secret Operate operation in drones iii. He became very enamoured of any change, nothing, whereas to me. The closest figure to him is Richard Nixon, who also always harbour that same kind of resentment toward coastal leads always felt reason bidding
being judged and looked down upon by them, and I think you're exactly right. That remained a huge part of a pub trunks appeal. Yes, he's he's he's a billionaire he's. A very he's lived his life as a wealthy real estate mogul But inside it he's not invented to that everybody every the I don't care who you are. Everyone has always wanted to be one of the cool kids. It doesn't matter who you are or how old you are used. Kind of want that, and you know for people like me. I know I'll, never be a cool kid I'll, never be in that pack and You can't just go alright whatever, and he embraces that. I don't really care on early care. I think he does, but he appears to embrace that I'm not at the cool kids table. I have my own table
you know why. I'm sure you have had this experience. Given your trajectory, you know you were at CNN Euro Fox NEWS. You are a very highly rated owes to news programmes on major networks. You know My own experience in Vienna with the Snowden story? Winning opponents are film that was made about my work one and ask drivers on the outskirts stage when it happens, There are these kind of insidious operators that get made a sort of an implicit unspoken deal which is look if you play ball and rid of this. These wrapped badge is this anger of this anti establishment. You know sort of agitation that you're doing there's a lot of revolt. Let you in to our glorious halls- and you are You know really sit down with yourself and say: what do I want and those are attempting a lot of people. Succumb to them are all human and I think the most do you are you. I think
that's. Why I, like you so much an end. You know I left CNN because I remain out far because I started to like it and Roger Ales said to me: you're not leaving here. Nobody ever leaves here And then when I was leading leaving. He said you know your problem. Is you to play the game- and I said because it's not a game to me. I actually believe in these things and you do you have to it, so it's Its velvet handcuffs, it's it's a golden prison that they build for you and ill. If you're successful they'll give you everything just don't tip over the apple cart. You can go and play your little games, but not that far and when I Fox, I was You know. I really believed that the average guy could just become president. Mr Smith goes to wash, and I believed that after work
king at CNN and then it fox. I don't believe that, I believe you have to sell your soul to the elite, it gatekeepers and the problem of the the advantage Trump Had- and I can't think of anybody else, except maybe somebody in Hollywood. Maybe I don't know the thing about Trump. Is he was one of the gate. Keepers are eight will not. Actually he was. He was already inside the fence, Peter have to pass through the Rupert Murdoch and everybody else. That might say it out, God help me out, he was already inside and the gatekeepers couldn't couldn't. come out. Polemics and still am I right on that? No, no, I think that is really. I think that gets to the core of law, Tromp was, such a destructive force to Washington, to media
financial in and military power centres. If you look at the policies that he actually implemented, do you know just some like a pure political perspective? They re aren't in all day, pretty much a continuation with a couple of exceptions it without religious snake things he would say you know none the less that he shown on the shine on the reality of of what they are, the things that he would question united. Like one of the most significant things when their pillar Riley Interview that he'd, where he did and orally was trunk, demanding demanding that he denounced prudent and when he was saying like, why should I denounced Putin? I think it's in the interests of the United States to have a good relationship on a collaborative partnership with Russia. They hate islamic radicals. They want to fight Al Qaeda, they want to fight ices. Why should I just picked fight that than they ever their huge nuclear power, and all rightly said, because he he kills people, you know it kills. Dissidents and Trump said
You think we're so innocent. We have a lot of killers ourselves now. Everyone knows that's true right. Anyone even remotely from industry and United States knows that. That's the truth, but that's a true You can add the president of the United States, speaking it is a kind of it votes, the mythology and the iconography that his is to appalling he did not over and over and over. It was much more stylistic and comportment doll, then substantive. You're like mean you're on your own. Small business I hate HR. I hate a jar. But if you don't have age are you're gonna get killed. Wrongful termination suits minimum wage requirements, labour, regulations. Oh it's gonna get, more fun, and each our manager. That is not cheap, especially one. That's really good the average is seventy thousand dollars a year. I want to issued a Bambi, spelled, be a m bam b e b Bambi,
created specifically for a small business like yours or mine. You can get a dedicated hr manager, craft, eight, our policy maintain your compliance. All four. Ninety nine buxom month with Bambi, you can change hr from your biggest liability to your biggest strength, your located each our manager is available by phone email or real time chat. On boarding determinations, they customize your policies to fit with your business and they, manager, employees data Day, all four. Ninety nine bucks, a month month to month no we hidden fees, cancel anytime, you didn't start. your business cause you're like I got, you know what I really want to work in age. Our compliance gonna do that every day of my life, oh my gosh. Let Bambi help gale they'll get out of that nightmare. Did your free age! Our audit today go to Bambi Dotcom, Slash, Glenn right now, schedule your free age, our audit, that's bad! be dot com, Slash Glenn, do now.
was the reply. I mean the disease that the anti Trump disease it became a sickness. It really did with many members of the media, the Gue Jesse. They just went blind with rage was it that they felt responsible, or was it also that he would Trump was saying the things I me, for instance, it would trump is in bed with Russia. Here and things like that about Putin, and he did things that I'm like. Why would you do? Why? Would you say that about Putin? Why would you stand there with Putin on? You know, etc, etc, but he is administration was actually tougher on Putin than anybody in a long time. It wasn't that he was It wasn't that he was doing anything, but in many cases just saying things so was the the I hate Trump like he's. Gotta get out at all, costs is actually
because the press felt that they had Felder played a role in is getting power, or was it it also that the the big we're that want things to keep going on Wall Street that once things going on Washington, that wants this game on both sides of the ILO. Is it What were they also part of whipping up the press and saying now you big, you don't even know how bad it is. You know it's a little bit. Let's take that example. First of all that narrative, that really was the dominant narrative for the four years of his presidency and even the primary theme of the Clinton campaign before he one, which is that he has nefarious dealings with Russia. it's so funny these people, constantly malign others for being conspiracy, beer, as ending that wasn't one Weena principle attack on you. For example. What was a more demented and arrange conspiracy? Theory, then the idea,
that blood and we're Putin had taken over the United States in the Kremlin had infiltrated american political institutions because they types and with the president to use actually and after the meal or yeah. That's an act of war. If you really Leave that right that, but you and you get you everything you personal you get rid of the compromised agent right. You don't yes, yes manner, do everything possible to get rid of them and then also yeah? You go to war, I mean if a country has really taken over the ancient, that's what they were saying and the reality of it was good the opposite choose to two examples. In twenty fourteen twenty fifteen when the Russians are being coming threatening to eat the Ukrainians and then one day, annex Crimea. There is our partners in, pressure on Obama. To send with arms to Ukraine. Many what it did in his eye it was. I don't want to. You're confrontation with Putin over
a country, Ukraine, that is of vital interest to them because of their history that Ukraine, as for Russia and danger, its pose and also its rate in their neighbourhood, and it's not an hour so Obama's argument. What we're going to risk confrontation with Putin over Ukraine wherever Syria debts their vital interests, but not ours trump. Its end and within a year is. It illustration, is harming the Ukrainians with lethal weapons way more, can confrontational and provocative the prudent erect did. Obama was willing to be this thing where this now gas pipeline that the large scale with Germany. Tromp was obsessed with pressure in coercing bullying the Germans. Out of you, fucking Reagan wrote that Yes, we re going on that issue. Yeah go and what is more threat to russian core interest. Then trying to prevent this crucial pipeline, what
We cannot go on those that further. What is more, crucial to prudence, personal safety there the gas industry and the oil industry in Russia I mean highlights that go he is He's a mark man exactly which tromp was directly threatening for financial, yes, tat! Think it's a brook personally thing would leave arms to Ukraine. I don't know trunk cared, not that made it just been. Something had happened despite him or without area you know, but but that too right. If you're Putin, you care a lot about Ukraine. If you look at Russia Austrian, like the relationship of of Russia, the Ukraine, the way that the Germans used it to run back leading world wars illegal arms into the Ukraine, which the trumpet the idea the very notion that poor was controlling Trump do blackmail, given the reality of trump. What tromp was doing to Russia it's so deranged- it's any at all of them in the media with
if you exceptions, latched onto this conspiracy theory as their principal narrative of what was happening in United States for fork, and they impeached him twice one time over that there was an and never ending investigation. Constant news stories based on completely baseless end and in any insane conspiracy theory to then you ask why that is, and I think that it because they regard Washington in the halls of power as theirs and Trump was an interloper everybody else who has been elected. That position right, lap, conservative and rolled up again came in and play ball. They kind of sad. Ok, I know how to comport myself. I know the pieties and orthodoxy that can't touch. I know the lines in in which I have to stay in the ones, and I can't transgress they make it very clear. Trump is bull in a China shop, righty comes any. He doesn't used in doing whatever. I want you to listen to any one
excuse us hope. Yet you lots and lots of people it. Obviously the more obsessive in vindicate becomes beaten in attacking the back. He has knowingly and beat all- and you know, there's. This one interview dead. To this day, I'm amazed is not talked about, but it's not talked about because it so important. a couple of these before Trump was inaugurated. He had posted on twitter. Of course on the CIA, he mocked them for having gotten weapons of mass destruction because they were weakening. The press that his election victory was a legitimate because it was engineer by the Russians and he knew they were doing that. He knew why they were doing in so being trump. He attacked the CIA. Chuck Sumer, one on Rachel, mad cow. and said every in this town knows that you don't. And your attack, the CIA or the intelligence community, because instructs humours words they have city, wasteful Sunday to get back to you
essentially saying: that's: the Real power Centre is the CIA, and everyone knows you stay on their good, this what a group of intelligence in saying I'm radically in the darkness checks, humor admitted the bed there construed in that came the story of the term presidency. Is the media got into bed with the CIA and they were willing to say and do anything anything in order? Can you have a name abandoned all journalistic at bags all notions of truth or anything else. They believe that they were fighting this existential battle against the new Hitler figure and if you really believe that you'd do anything in the name of winning and that's what they did in are still doing so it is. I mean to me- and I did this- came to me about halfway through his presidency and in its maybe even three quarters where I was really
really felt it was important that he won a second term. The impeachment happened, and that was insane the way that worked. You could see all of the intelligence agency and the corruption, and we had a lot of work on that and it was clear what was going on and I thought it he's just a hand grenade what he made that phone call. He there wasn't anything really wrong with that phone call. He didn't know what he was walking into in Ukraine with with the e using the with using that, and he where was blowing down walls and people were starting to be exposed, so they had to choke him out. And I really thought towards the ended. He was going to win if it. If it was fair, is it turned out he didn't win, but
I am left with. If he can do it, who can wears a thing? You know if you look at it. If you look at american politics and the traditional metrics of what is favourable to an income and president seeking real action and one is unfavourable he had every single possible circumstance lined up against him. He was in the middle of an out of control pandemic. where people are locked up in their home was for a year. Businesses were closing all over the country. There is a huge unemployment crisis where tens of millions of people have lost their jobs. People were without hope. They were afraid they were separated from one another. They were unhappy, every single metric. Dear president, seeking real action. is everything that you want to see is what happened. Do you still almost one with all the establishment lined up against him walls.
Silicon Valley, pouring money into Joe Biden, Dnc coppers, the media virtually unified. Doing everything they could as well. talked about already. I left my own. my own news outlet, because they were petrified Ronnie reporting. The Democrats, if they want, can take solace in whenever they want to take solace in. But if I may captain I what's going on Every red line is flashing, they because they relied on affluent suburban aids. They lost ground right, a president who is a racist, Zena Bob. You know the bigger the new Hitler they lost ground among African Americans, among Latinos, among among people of color among new immigrants, The democratic party is bleeding support. They even manage somehow to lose seats, accuracy image I was acting, so I think that the pole takes a trump and ban in.
Minos started to formulate and kind of what's the first alternative, that the Republican Party had to Reagan, ISM, which you know say what you want about it? It's kind of our care, great, it's like from the cold war. It's on the night can eighties is a different era. Reagan orthodoxies dont really translate perfectly anymore you're talkin last time about you know, capitalism in crony capitalism, those we're not reality. Big tech didn't exist, for I think it is a populism and the idea that the Democratic Party has become the party of the professional managerial class and wait, affluent suburban AIDS the Republican Party now in order to win needs to become the party of the multiracial working class. Using populism in the leg is something that a lot of really smart politicians. You are intend to run in twenty twenty four. Obviously, our recognising
To become the dominant ideology at the most popular Fox news shows the interesting republic and politicians like Josh Holly and either had. Crews are starting to Tom. Cotton clearly are recognising that. That's the only path to kind of said burning and brooding these power centres that have their heels quenched in the powers of Washington, okay, so you take aside, not because I want to come right back to this, but let me take aside noakes. You mentioned a name, Steve Bannon I think Steve Man and is a very dangerous individual. I think you know his his relationship with GOSH. What's his name in Russia and another guy, Do you like with russian and chinese tycoons Dugan Nano Alexander Dugan, who also has connections to one of the guys in
Brazil there he's very powerful. What was his name should carry Mary. He moved to the United States. Good friend of your president, now allow the cop cabal. Yes, yes, yes, a girl, divorce, Geek net yeah, so those three our kind of cut from the same cloth on this traditional ism capital T traditional ISM, which is extraordinarily dangerous, extraordinarily dangerous. And I dont go ahead of you. You think Steve. I dont think see man in his apply or anymore and republican politics. I could be wrong about bad bad. I think, he's very closely tied to tramp He you know really did get caught. Gerardi people can use purporting to represent they just stole money. You know he's not in bright because took part in them
I dont believe that these newer, smarter, younger, more modernized, right wing populists figures want anything to do with the bad, and our is scandal speed, I also agree that hope I hope you're right. So let me go now back to track, because I want to ask you about Trump would he win. If you ran again, it's so interesting, because if you, Pay attention to media discourse right, be even no question seems preposterous. Isn't there were other in european history was impeach twice. He is so to speak of all that it can even be on the internet he's not allowed on Facebook or twitter or or any such conduct that that's so eager. Connected to this day course about and that a meal,
makes. You think that the idea that he could win and be back in the White House is unthinkable, and yet there the people who vote and those people who create that narrative have no connection to the people. Who vote to be my vote. See the world in a much different way and eight those people who are in charge of elite discourse, and again I mean trumped account, twenty sixteen anyone he counted out, twenty twenty and, as we just discussed with everything, against him stepped up and piled why he almost one For years and the same ideology, the NEO liberal ideology of Joe Biden, this global est- you know free trade ideology that of alma embrace, and that gave rise to tramp in the first place, with him out of office in being about a blame, every ill of the status quo on Biden instead of having to accept them. So it's very possible that he could went to jail.
binding would have one if it wasn't for the now admitted help from all of the corporations, all of the media, the millions and millions of dollars at face our Zachary Burg put in the rule changes of, I guess what I'm asking you as a question. I shouldn't we're not supposed to ask, you think- and I do not say even enough to change it. I dont know, but it was this a fair election. I mean american democracy, is unfair in part because who the people, who have concentrated wealth wheeled enormous power and the founders of the country where capital Obviously they weren't communists, they weren't social, is buying You can find all kinds of warnings and the Federalist papers and in detail about the constitution that, if wealth,
Equality becomes too severe. If well comes concentrated in a Katy sliver of the population and everybody else's captive to it that inequality will ultimately spill over into uncontaminated, political equality and political rights and corrupt the democracy, and it will become an oligarchy. There's not some left wing. Twenty salary. You know right. We'll bury. This is something that found early themselves. No radicals they were worried about, and I think that's we have and that's what makes arms victory in twenty sixteen is virtual, bactrian, twenty twenty. So remarkable and so stunning, and it's a reason why it sends them into this spiral of psychosis, because they rely on that system that I just described to make sure that power stays in their hands and it didn't work in that case, why they went insane
oh the the power not staying in their hands. I mean they did this in the nineteen eighties, when they they got the super delegates cause. They saw what happened. I reckon there like. Oh, my gosh somebody somebody outside that the establishment and want to they the super delegates in you know they just torched Bernie Sanders in twenty sixteen and now it seems as though even that's not enough. We're talking about the electoral process, we're talking now about new voting standards that do you know they say- are being over the essential to for everybody devote, and you know their republicans are denying water to people. It's pretty ridiculous there talking now about the end of the filibuster adding extra states and possibly packing the Supreme Court while calling it unpacking the Supreme Court.
It doesn't seem as though this is the party that moderate and not fascistic yeah, I can agree more. I mean the Democratic Party, It is a party that I view as completely repressive and not just the Democratic Party, but the liberal movement. Supports it, and by liberal I mean just to be clear, I don't mean the far left. You know the kind of left wing movement that supported Bernie Sanders of out of the eight Democrats, at least as much as people on the right. Do I mean establishment? Liberals are like the Nancy Pelosi, Jugs humor Hillary Clinton strain those people they don't even free speech at all, this hearing, it was the third time they ve summoned. actually he owes before them to pressure in Bali and threaten them that if they don't start censoring more Democrat, party adversaries off the internet,
they're going to use their legislative and regulatory power to punish them their threatening that explicitly they want to silence voices. They want to use censorship to control the discourse. They don't have. The puppy in prison who are dissidents in a way that we kind of Venus think of the caricature of tyranny, but it's just as a factor. In fact, if not more so precisely because it subtle they dump leave and due process there may be finding were guilty of a kind of good they're doing demand gates. Now, I'm not saying that needs is you know. not guilty, he may be guilty of everything that he's being accused of more, but that's MAR there's been no evidence presented of any kind and they have been convicted and locked up as it ratified the whole be to movement, was about destroying people based on accusations that are unproven. They don't believe in free speech. They don't believe in due process they don't believe in dumb victims,
standard democratic processes, including the safeguards that our founders put in, including making sure that state is that our small and rural have equal representation in the Senate, but not the house so that they don't get trained. They want to change all that. They want to change all the rules to ensure that they remain in power for ever. It is a genuinely repressive and tyrannical party and a movement that support it needs the reason I become so violently alienated from it and are there more democrats that are waking up and seeing this, do you think because I was, I watch the news. I follow things and I'm like I I believe the Republicans fall for so much stuff for themselves I mean this is we envisage in you know, trumps size lettering at the top of his buildings. You know,
Rob shooting corruption factors of fascism. You listen to what they're saying you watch what they're doing you see how they maneuver in silence, people in, and I am astounded that so many people are like you know at best yawn you haven't been interesting, I mean you mentioned ring in trumps. Victory as outsiders mean Bernie would have been right. He was always eat, as is anti establishment outsider despise by the Democratic Party elite and in twenty sixteen he would have won. He would have beaten and click machine had they not cheated, and let us remember that Julian Assange is in prison by the administration is working to keep him there in part because he he showed that the with those
those Emil's any public hearing the twenty six in campaigns, the top five officials of the Democratic Party had to resign because the corruption was so severe, including dummy washroom Insult Donna. Brazil got caught cheating by handing CNN debate, crashed into the Clinton, can not do this Anders game. They saw all that corruption within the democratic party. The left did the real aft and then in twenty twenty they saw the same thing happen. Remember Bernie, one Iowa art, I didn't. I love one. You Hampshire destroyed everybody in Nevada. He was on his way to the nomination and then suddenly, the democratic establishment bomber picked up the phone and called three or four people, Buddha, Jedge, cobra char. They all dropped out. They endorsed guide in the only one who had a chance to win and then Bernie was gone again should the left saw so then you say well, why is the less still willing to lend support to a party that, obviously, eight seven is willing to cheat to prevent them from winning, and that's where I think this woke ideology comes in its
Two powerful instrument is the reason why you know the CIA celebrates Algae Bt Day and women's day in Reno black history, mind, even though its the CIA, that does coups in bombing campaign to assassinations around the world. It's why Nike with sweatshops in China can, in the United States, pretend to me so devoted to human rights and equity and all about it, because it's a very powerful weapon, tell people be kind of cultural questions that have nothing to do with the distribution of power, the distribution of wealth or who wields militaristic in and be realistic power in the world. If you only focus on these cultural issues, you'll stay on our side because we're on the side of those we love trans people, we, U gay people, will hopefully paper. We ate racism and everybody on the lap kind of gets focused on those things to stay on our side. Because of that ended, when they do that they are not talking about any
the questions of what is ruling class orthodoxy. Who is it that we alter your power? Who is it that's cheating, because their focused on these culture? More issues in those are the things that distract everybody from kind of, power is actually being exercised. if we set an earlier or we set a yesterday, but it is genius if you look at it. It's genius how this thing has been put together and how different groups are being used and played, and everybody thinks there are on the right side and I don't think anybody really understands What side there really on you know, including conservatives, you you don't really know whose doing what end and how this game is being played and if you're being manipulated and only makes it worse with. Look on valley. Yet This is. The thing, though, is, if you ask me a firewall. What is that
way out of this re like is there a way out of this? Given all this consolidation of power, really think you know work five years ago. Eight years ago I was on CNN and MSNBC all the time. Now, I'm ban from now you stay I'm on Fox. You know I would be on every day. If I didn't say no, sometimes I guess just got done. Taping a fox show, I'm probably going to do another one. You know on Monday. Why is that happening? it's bizarre like if we look at it in one way right like you, go and read any article about my work and its far that there's going green over about this guy agreement and in the most frequent guest on Tucker Karlsson show. How did it happen? Think the reason is because so many people on the left and on the right the way there labels have traditionally been used, have so much more in common in terms of their political use in their common enemies than either want to recognize at the moment, then they are able to recognise because the constantly being fed these
trivial and distracting stories that are designed to keep them at each other's throats that don't really have anything to do with their lives or how power is distributed. So you say to me or what it, what hope do you have? The hope that I have is exactly that that project of kind of eroding those old labels that dont really tell us anymore much anymore. You know I write not about Silicon Valley, censorship and the power big tap monopolies, whose in favour of that you think people on on the lap love but in Google and huge gigantic corporations do think people on the right. You know they both ate them or free trade deals or the deep state, and so it's some that some something has happened to enable people who so in time each other to come together so been saying this for several years. First of all have tried to reach out and it doesn't go well, it doesn't go well, usually, however,
that's changing. There are a lot of people on both sides that are now just like so sick of their own side, and you don't try to a ball enough and you know to try to keep bringing their side along and and now it's just ridiculous, and so I think a lot of people like you and me are starting to connect and go look. I know of Have you know everything in common, but the question has been to everybody, but I talked to we to have an m e pluribus Unum and then was the bill of rights and if you'll just give me the bill of rights, I'm in I mean we can do anything you want with the government going to let you live. I say what you do: reboot the whole system and I don't know how to do it, but I will fight with anyone in stand with. Anyone who believes in the bill of rights I don't know if new people on the left now believe in the bill of rights because
I may leave ACL, you used to say it, but they're not really fighting for it. Now no never much different agenda. You know, I think I press. I totally agree with you in the sense that If you don't have those core liberties, you have nothing. Those horrid liberty and our desire for a ban, a concentration of power and inability to challenge at those liberties have no purpose other than to ensure that the citizenry always has tools and weapons to China power, if you have no freedom of the press, which, at the time in the constitution didn't mean this. Like credential priesthood people call journalists. It was right that all citizens use with the mimeograph machine, or you know, printing fires to rail against the british crown are corrupt governors in, and you know chromium less than like. If you have those tools of free speech, a free press of due process, the fact that the government can do anything, you can't take your life for liberty or do prop or property without providing that first
Then those Use all possible means. History teaches that show if you are someone entrenched in power. The first thing you're going to want to do is take away those weapons which is it happy what's happening, and that's why I agree with you completely for me. That's the number one first battle, the one matters before all others, and anyone who is my ally, the question of whether people should be able to continue to speak freely on the internet and in part, spaces or whether people are entitled to new process before being assume guilty of some terrible act, not just by the government by the culture and the society that somebody that's my ally that somebody I mind to stand within. Conversely, no matter what other month someone's these are and everything else if their opposed to those values, those people are not by allies of the people and currently looking battle before everything
I have to tell you the founders. Did it for a reason, the first amendment you have to be able to speak. You have to be able to come together. You have to be able to question those in power. There is the fur The second is, you lose the first, if you don't have the second, if you don't have a way to push back on on that power, and everybody laughs at the third one, but the third one is you can't quarter. Soldiers in my in my house comes from a time when they could go through your papers. Will that's the CIA? That's that's what you exposed was Snowden. They are are going through things. They are listening. They are tying everything together. So your first three amendments or almost all shot and if we don't have those three, you don't get the rest,
yeah, the fourth one is not doing very well either rate. The fourth point is the one that's supposed to protect you against unreasonable searches in seizures of your priority in your papers. and you know, I think, lot of times. People vertical one of the problems is so many people's sense of history and knowledge of history begins in on January, twenty twenty seventeen there. Nobody that all United States never cared about politics and telecoms media outlets, scared them sufficiently. That tromp was this orange monster coming to destroy them all. That fear is what engage them and they know nothing. They owe nothing about anything. It happened prior to that, but me rights these bill of rights. They can sound, really abstract right. They were written on, parchment,
you know they were and quill bands and they were written by people who seem very distant from us, but they all they did was. They became really visceral experience rate of happy. I'm writing a tyranny. The tyranny that they wage, this incredibly bloody and risky war to fight and liberated themselves from, and that project of creating a new government was about nothing other than ensuring that it didn't happen again or at least maximizing the chances of the population could fight against it. Ryan, I know I'm a critic of the United States. I think it's done a lot of terrible things in the world: do you know you ask me what the CIA is done for banking fifty until now I'll? Let you know a hundred crimes that I think are horrific, but many of those I will in many of those I agree with, I mean America has done,
Winston Churchill. If you just read about him in Europe, he was great. If you read about him from the indian perspectives, a monster, we all have a dual personality, its which one is in control and which one is growing in strength, rain those that those documents you know, I think that those founding document and the design of a government, our genius, you know- I I don't think, there's been a better design for how government functions than the one that refined. Yes, we ve ever been a perfect union rain and they knew that those raspberry tional documents. The whole point was to form a more perfect union to constantly evolving change, to fulfil those areas, but those founding values are ones, I believe in fervently there might be a meeting principles because they don't trust human beings to exercise power without the checks at only day, provide an to me is the greatest danger right now is that they are being eroded not just in practice, but the
awareness that people have of their importance. But you are in Brazil. Right now, you ve just exposed the Watergate of Brazil, a huge, huge story. Men extraordinarily dangerous for you here you don't go anywhere without an armored car and without security or generally at your wherever and if a mirror car falls I mean, I don't know if she's the defender of of this any more, but if where do you go? if America falls the. Bad guys are really empowered and where do you go for freedom where, where it with me, You know, I think I think you know. I think the problem has become
when you had nation states, write one hundred and seventy or one hundred and eighty nation state. There were different forms of government that each of them had and there was some mobility. You could move back in between them What we have now instead is a rose in the idea of any kind of national identity. There's an erosion of borders is an erosion of nationalist institutions in favour of global listed ones, and, as we were time yesterday, when it comes to China in the U S and the age of modern competition between them, I think the price question then becomes which model will prevail. I'm not even sure what the american model is in any more in that in competition, minotaur wouldn't even means, I'm not even sure that there is such a big difference between the american model on the chinese model. At other reads: want them to be a girl, but I think
the greatest danger is the reason why people have become so opposed to. Globalism is because you Luke, you know that the more distant authorities are less control you exercise over them. So can we spend I've got about fifteen minutes, I don't or how much time you have, but let's find a few minutes in just talk about Brazil and end your book. It is I'm it is a thriller, but two to explain it in men just a few minutes not reading the book is it's full of names that Americans have never heard of its etc etc. So can you take because it is it's really remarkable you'll its really kind of starts with a phone call from somebody on the far left in government right
yeah, you know it. In that sense, it was similar to the way I started. This story was. I was sitting in front of my computer minding my own business and then late, two thousand and twelve. I got an email from an anonymous person saying that he had a ton of documents that were revealing and it turned out to be Edward Snowden and over the course of six months we established a relationship when I flew to Hong Kong that and got the documents in and did that reporting. This is very similar. I got a call from A woman is a very famous left wing politician in Brazil should actually vice presidential candidate, who lost a ball sorrow and twenty teen long time. Member Congress and she said: hey I calling because with areas and see my phone has just been act and are proved to me that he had asked my phones by showing me very sensitive conversations I had with my closest friends, members of the Senate members of Congress, and I petrified. I bought. Ok, I'm the target of a blackmail campaign.
he quickly told me no you're, not my target. I ask your phone to prove to you. I have the capability to hack the Taliban, accounts because I got What did app? like signal or what's up and others Skype, all Brazilian Authority views and he said I can now be accounts and anyone I want using telegram and I ve spent the last three months downloading conversations and documents and drafts and videos and audio and photos of the most powerful politicians in Brazil in this archives shows in Miss amounts of corruption. The primary target of that archive, was this
former judge names, Sergio Mauro you have presided over this gigantic anticorruption probe that send billionaires in former presidents to prison and by that point he had become both in our Owes Justice Minister, both Norwood just been elected for months earlier, was riding on this incredible success, not just for him, but for his right wing movement that got swept into power and just, as importantly, we called Minister Mauro Guide part, partly because of that corruption. Right I mean I media has again it was generally everybody with everybody, wanted, hope and change, nicely and both in our. Despite being a member of Congress or thirty years from the epicenter of in Rio de Janeiro, no angel, he was very talented demagogue in successfully
branded himself as the kind about cider that model themselves after Trump? Actually love the fact that the elite media circles and elite political circles aided, then the more they attacked them, this stronger he became, but the real you know- and this is what I think is irrelevant further United States. I wrote the book for an international audience, not representing one. Do you know how many lessons it has for? Why balls and our one right also, you know what it wasn't twenty seventeen former President Lula, who is one of the giants of the latter. Half of the twentieth century government over eight years left for that eighty seven percent approval rating Brazil's economy boomed under his governance, was getting ready to run. For president again All poll showed him way ahead of every combated or including both general and this guy right, as that was happening, can get him on extremely dubious corruption, charges that remove him from the race that, in both inherited Watson three may have one anyway, but that was cruelly his biggest adversary and the bird
People's Nora did upon winning was turned around and rewarded. That judge by giving him the most powerful ministry in the country. The Ministry of Justice and public security they control surveillance, gone course, man, financial investigation, long, we know the balloon federal police and the archives showed that that judge the whole time when he was presiding over this probe, including many ways. Finding all a guilty was in fact deeply. wrapped he was cheating. He was breaking every rule when he was putting with the prosecutors that he will have to meet. Judging and so three months after our reporting began, the Supreme Court ordered freed from prison just this last month. The Supreme Court reversed rule as convictions, all of them
on the grounds of our reporting showed the judge was corrupt and restoring is political rights, which means now, who is almost certain to run against both in our own twenty twenty two, so Brazil will have competition. The contacts that it was supposed to have, and twenty eighteen but didn't both in our own verses, will a huge contrast in politics, ideology and- here they attacked me in every conceivable way, culminating with an attempt to criminally charge me in early twenty twenty with a hundred and he felony counts in the brazilian Supreme Court intervened said at that twas. It violation of my freeze, my bra press freedom rights but yeah I mean death threats in exploiting huge and drew out the most our own EU. Had you have people in media say that you should be investigated. You should be in jail. You should be investigated. Even your children should be taken away from you.
yeah there was a very famous journalist who went on live television and out of nowhere. You know my husband's a member contrasts with the upcoming party, so he works in Brasilia. Like members of Congress do work in India seats at work in Washington. We lived together in Rio. He said one of them is in Brasilia working in Congress, the other one is publishing these doin humans. What I want to know is used taken care of their two children. I think of my judge. It's to investigate. We adopted our children from an orphanage for years earlier. And he went on television and said I think their children should be sent back to the orphanage why we ended up on I'll show together, a television show live on the air and I confronted and what those comments- and they got he gave me attack me personally. Army aired kind of tried to punch me in the face now as the climate for a year, and it's one of the reasons why I am so, contemptuous, these whining from
cod old? You know c Mon dry journalists like Jimmie Dale and who The buried danger, as he wrote in his book because trumps rise, I mean they don't know danger if it ran over them on the street. There and then you do all this claims about. Oh I'm being harassed online. You know journalists are supposed to go to war zones or supposed tat our lives on finding confronting irony and their whining about. You know little adolescent insults and mean tweets as though there these traumatized victims sickens me right. For that reason and I've been doing. I've been doing that, for I begin that for about twenty years now, I'm not wine in about it. It comes with the gig man. That is why comes with, and and if I hear one more of them call the other one brave following: what standing with the corporations and everyone in power
wow, that's brave, every second, exactly exactly it. So it's you know that they create new created this this this this fiction, is a novel and they cast themselves as the heroic protagonist, and that is the world they all inhabit, I thank you so much Glenn for everything that you're doing and and Vienna we may we may differ on things about. It's nice to know that we have the fundamental rights in common and if we can find more people and have open conversations men. I am so blown away this week by again spoken others doing exactly what they did with Hunter bindings laptop is be, oh anything it's! it's not about? her safety, it's not about how much money she has or even the hypocrisy of saying, she's, a marxist. It's a
where did that kind of money come from and if you can't, If you can't and where does it, I owe it to all right all right You can ask a question: you can't you police, anything! You! U! We! There is no way to make sure that there is justice. None that's why, I think these issues are predominantly it's. Why? I think that the monopoly power that facebooking, Google and twitter and Apple and Amazon harnessed to control and police and increasingly sensor discourse is the greatest threat that faces us and so yeah. Like I said, I am always happy to talk to anybody who, like minded or even anyone who was in on those issues, but I do think dialogue like this is super important, and I am very appreciative for that reason of you're invited me on. Thank you very much when I got there
You bet just a reminder: I'd love, you to rate and subscribe to the podcast and passes on to a friend, so it can be discovered by other people.
Transcript generated on 2021-05-16.