There are a handful of ways that you can find the truth, but. music is one of those that's beak to our sole. It's part of our dna. Our experience it is just too. are removable part of our human story. It allows us to express something deeper than we can imagine or express in words. Music comes before words in a Erica music mean something even more special beginning with Thomas Edison invention of the phonograph that was here, which allowed music to be I, for the first time in human history, in the time since we have given the world Elvis the blues. rock and roll, would say country music as well, but I think that's more scottish but everything else distinctly american jazz distinctly american any. American cultural landmark, good or bad is attack,

To a song or an album New York, work. I left my heart in San Francisco. So there were musical movements. The sixties. On September, eleventh a little bit of America's innocence died right in front of US so much of that day is still inexpressible, but in the days that followed nine eleven, a song by today's guess, spoke to us just what we needed it most everywhere you heard it. If you lived in those times, you heard it- and you know it and I am willing to bet at least one of the times you heard it there tears in your eyes and that's because it acted. You too, that moment and to America, to America's heroes, when you listen to it? You understand the struggles of,

the every man and Superman. Then I'm not talking about the super man of twenty twenty one who struggles, which outfit should I, where I'm talking out the Christ like Superman, who inspired us to be more heroic truth. Justice the american way this puts our guest today into a rare category of musicians willing to express american values, let alone doing in a memorable way He is a musician. It began playing the piano the aged three since then, he has excelled is a songwriter, a producer Anna Performer with a Grammy nomination, multi platter. and gold singles and albums his song appeared in roughly three hundred and fifty movies advertisements. Tv shows, including sopranos? He has. Spend a lot of his musical career performing for veterans and active duty military

He wrote his latest single blood on my hands in response to the tragic suicide bombing in Kabul. Earl your this year, which left thirteen american heroes dead. Today the man known as five for fighting John on drastic now you may not know this about me, but I'm a man of taste, meaning I like to taste a lot of things and I like to do it a lot, especially for with chocolate, my favorite time of the day, is snack time, my who favorite times of the year Halloween. and Christmas jazz. Why fortunately, I can now snack without feeling bad about it, and I were sneaking it because built bars, which I love are actually healthy for you and I didn't feel bad about it you know before, but my way

actually might be listening. So I have to say how I feel bad about it: honey when I'm swam haven't something is not healthy, who I anyway, the maker to build our understand that flavour comes first, whether it's the mint brownie flavour, salted, carnal, cookies and cream or any other other amazing flavors take comes first, but there also healthy. calorie low carb high in protein and high in fibre. You Love them. Get your bill bar right. by going to built dotcom, that's built, dotcom you. So promo back fifteen in your safe fifteen percent off your first order, its built dot com, promo code back fifteen- I am fascinated by songwriters because you can do

something that I can't even imagine being able who put emotion. To music and then It just lives on forever and it facts. I mean that there is a song. I asked you to to bring when's the last time he sang it got. It has to be over five six years. Ok here I loved it. When I first heard it- and I think it is, it is more appropriate today. I can tell you how many times I have listened to the song and you never knew, but I we you were influencing me. The whole time I'm honored, thank you so. I'm just play it and I want to talk about the lyrics cause. I just think it is so appropriate for today this is freedom, never cries.

That's it. To a pound sure for a broad

The flax shows. How much is that gets the flag to apportion got me back? It's me. I saw a man, I saw a man on the tv and he says TAT for me so far about some once embodied, never cherish freedom

the spread of never wrote to settle road for a dead man with the sounds tat, bats winsome, but has never cherish freedom, freedom, never traffic. You can lead Jason Wave, anything it make anything. It there's a babe

on the doorstep whale and away A baby steps for the day, there's a baby on the doors there give is left to take the floor. So may he forget why he is crap Sir, stick,

I'm just thank mean that it is first when you said I wrote a Sanford dead men and now I never die. What does it mean? Well, sometimes so what you just I wrote a song for dead man and now never girl the songs. Last right I'll be gone, but the songs last and I think his orders- your paintings right- will not live you. So we can still have an influence when were gone and done. I think that's important for artists to realise began this, as he also said, once you write the song, it's not yours anymore. You gonna, give it out to the world in the world. Does with it what it wants to but yeah wrote that song kind of after that, Iraq, war and and and then of after nine eleven when we saw the images of no children with a forty seventh know being brainwashed by their parents.

MR so disturbing, and that was first time. I'm I'm like you know, do we really understand how much we are blessed to have freedom, because when you up with it and its everything you know it just becomes a fact of life and you don't you don't exe that it could ever go away, so how did you come up with the freedom? Never cries line. You know it's funny. People take that, many different ways, and sometimes I hesitate about talking about lyrics because people may have an a meaning. That has nothing do what I wrote it about, which is good, cause people what they do is they take music and apply to their lives in the way of its best for them. So for me we have never cries, is about the fact that freedom doesn't work the tendency, hey I'm in trouble, I'm over here is something. Going wrong. It just kind of Is there and then one day, maybe it's shrinking and maybe one day it's not

and you know here, we are probably fifteen years after I wrote that song and I think we're certainly seen that reality of freedom shrinking and and let people crying our folks like you in and folks that that are saying hey this is this is dangerous. Us yeah the baby on the doorstep. Yeah when I first heard those lyric. As I couldn't understand the first yeah a couple of times, I listen and when I understood that the baby is crying and wood anything. Yes, to go cell of flag for guitar yarn Sharia is is so profound yell. profound yeah. I think you know We see so many people and countries who would give their lives for their children.

Experienced the freedom we have Add one on your radio show today talking about that and and the fact that we take so for granted there's a reason people want to come here. I mean we're seeing that Neff Ghana. Right now you know we had. There are people that there stood freedom for twenty years and didn't stand a world without it and now they're smashed back into a time warp of tyranny that what happens in the world- you know Q go. You know, I ran it. Sir something that I think in the west we just take for granted and if it you don't stand up for it. You may you may risk Lou in it- and I see I see the possibility that isn't it's so bizarre that we're living in a world. Now, where the artists are on the wrong side, it seems to me: yeah

You have had. We ve talked about this before you have era Clapton coming out against these mandates. Writing a song singing a song, everybody butchering him yeah. You know your song, yet we're gonna get to blood on my hands in a second, your few and far between where You know the song by the Beatles Revolution. Yeah was the answer to the revolutionaries coming to them and saying we're there close we just if you'll join us. we can overthrow it at all, oh overthrow all it and they at the time if you're carrying around a picture of mount, nobody wants to hear you right, hey we, is that we are that under standing. Where's, the culture are the art. Do they? Actually every artist actually believes this is the right track. They can't see it or are they afraid. I think it's both, I think, certainly

group think and in the tribal nature of the arts. it's hard to overcome, especially when you're raised in the art school where there's only one world view it takes a really brave, courageous thinking purse and to question the orthodoxy I'm so I think you know that kind of reality and and the fact is and that community everybody's talking to themselves and they don't listen to any outside ideas, but their arbitrary way. I am I was lucky enough, to meet a very, very, very famous painter on his arm it is not are too that I necessarily like it's very modern Peter MAX Diego Peter could yep. I was talking about something on the radio and he said I want to talk to you. I would come over to my my studio, so I went over to his studio.

and he showed me a painting, and he said you like that. Don't you and I said it stunning among it was photographic in its quality, and it was this beautiful thing was woman, beautiful, beautiful painting and he said I hate that painting and I- Why he said, because I could never get it to look the way I wanted it to look. Everybody else will look at and say is beautiful, but I only see the flaws yeah there He told me you know Peter axis, no not for photographic painting grass said I used to go to time magazine this back in the sixties when they never took photographs and use them for the cover they were always painting. Yet and he said I would bring my painting every week because the guy a time who was in charge the cover liked my

but he never bought any of you. He said, and then one day he said quite honestly was after a week, enemy, gettin high and just to have fun, and I was just doodling stuff yeah. He said I was doing spaceships in a bubble, writing and everything else, He said Monday. I went into his office and I had all my artwork ready for him. he said, and he opens adopting, pulls out, I'm on the other side and he pulls it up, and he looks at any says Peter this. Genius and he's like talking about I've, been showing you the same crap every week rife and he said hold on any goes any gets all the artist on the floor. He said you come in here he's like what is nothing different! It's the same photographic quality, he realized when he pulled it out to show all of the artist. Oh, my

This is the stuff I did over the weekend. Just for me right and he end the guy said this is the language of a generation while and that came to the yellow submarine kind of wow. You know all of that wow and so? I wonder. in a way in a world of artists where European Year You should be incurred aged shirt the mould hurried to go another direction. How does not translate. You know again, Think there is a fear in the most artists are not financially independent. many of them have families and they're afraid that if they go against the status quo that

passive black bawling, it's never oh your cancelled, you just don't get hired or people don't you know they don't give you a showing and it's alive Good thing: it's just it's scary. I do think folks are getting a little bit more bread. when a few more folk speak out and they and stand that it's not just threatened maybe the political world view its threatening their ability to make art because in a way moved from a place where it's about the idle for the battle ideas to the battle for idea this, and I think so. Many of us, like I started following all these people on sub stack, who I don't agree with very wise, Matt Tybee, Glenn Greenwater, why do I agree with what they say. Usually not, but you know what they ve been cancelled. by their own try and though

people need to be able to speak out and they understand the danger of it, and I have become friends with many of them. Yes- and we don't agree on everything, but we We found that we agree on a lot more than we ever thought and we only six percent people and we agree that we should have a conversation, and we agree that you know to solve issues. We have to have the argument of ideas and assessed we bury wiser than when the times you I thought the tree I'm staying with cotton was was an illuminating moment because we ve we ve always heard about. You know that in doctor, action of colleges, the doctrine of colleges, but we really haven't seen it. In the real world, beyond kind of our kids coming home- and you know hating their parents, but when we saw the kind of Lord of the flies take over the New York Times, it was. It was to me, not really scary was like. Oh my god. It's now this wishing of this indoctrination is coming into all of our media powers and

to me, was an honest and our offices and our government and the people who give us the news, hoo hoo, we elect to Congress. So I think that to me was a big wake. Up call and and how else we gonna fight it, you know the arts has a way of breaking through that wall I mean we saw today what I ve been talking about on your show today, Chapelle blood on my hands, let's go brand and so we're not talking about some speech by policy or you know what, whatever you know, that the kids, are whining about today, we're talking about artists and transcends it goes around. It goes over goes hand know that Yet the left has corn that market yes long time ago, yet I was talking to a very famous painter in New York will remain nameless, at least until he decides the F and he's glows good

but he's he's one of the best artists known in Amerika there. He said you know it has been systematic there's a reason. Why conservatives have dear paintings paintings of tanks, planes and the american flag. He said because that's what you ve been dealt everything else, It has been pushed over to the other side. You you, they began to ridicule great masters and that's relegated over here and they ve encouraged all this other, and so this other realm. That is the popular art. He said all indoctrinated and if you like, realism. Generally get the red, white and blue, and it's all pushed over there and he said that's by design. It is not by chance. Well, let me tell you a story that I think maybe illustrates of you. I have

You're right, we have ceded the arts and my dear buddy who bright part, would always talk about politics mean downstream of culture. The Republican Party and the conservative movement, especially the leaders have zero understanding of the power of the arts zero. I was asked to play at the Republic Then the convention, when women came running- and this was you know, when W was the day you know he was improve ratings and twelve percent, but of Mccain. I wrote a song about him. Less great American and I said, ok I'll I'll play. They are right. We want you to play right after W. I'm like arches, really do you really want to throw me in the fire thinking? Is it ok and this

was the time that Obama was having remember the Greek Column Rock Javier Solana every star in the world here, and it was just like other production. It was like the most amazing concert of the decade and just like the bay- stars with the fireworks and everything. So I said hey guys I'll. Do it, I believe in the cause I'll need a piano and they came back vibrancy convex. Well, we have budget for a keyboard. Oh my cache, and I said you guys you're asking me to basically throw my in the toilet. I'm gonna play freedom, never cries. I just need a piano does it needs in order to have the piano, Campi, synagogue, Cuba, we just came up Obama's like Canada, for the gut, they know Norway, where budget for keyboard- and I go he never mind, but that reflects the complete either with on my hands, it's a song that most the country, Greece, with its assault.

frankly, that place very well to the base of our side is certainly one if I wrote about Trump, which I would have, but even the are our members of Congress. They don't understand the power of the arts and they don't understand the tools that we have. That can change the narrative they liked to hear themselves talk. They like their brand on twitter, but when you actually give them tat. They wine their whole careers, but are we have nobody in the arts nobody's on our side? Nobody says a worldview and when you give it to them, though they no to do with it. They don't understand the power of it. So I think We need to elect people. You know elect people that understand that no What's a here, your speech, then really, don't you know they don't really really out. That's great! You have two million followers on twitter, but if you want to move the needle of the culture you gotta, breast embraced the artist who are willing to sacrifice their careers for your worldview is it's amazing to me, because I have always felt that their theirs

and his house in back of house near and both are important. If conservatives generally speaking, were back of house it be a disaster pray, let The artist do what they do, but the hour We need to understand. If they're running the finances in the running everything else, it's a disaster right and and that's what we, gotten the two wings of the Eagle land right at the back of house front of house right, we're boy, necessary? Yes, we're both necessary. Yes, and we don't have to see to the left, especially now, especially when we see parents rising. We see the country rising up your view. get it cause you're, an artist who write you actually an artist you up, stand how someone walks in and sees one of your paintings and has a reaction that you could not get by talking to them. For ten years you see that Are our side doesn't get it? I should say

all of em, but most of them down and am actually having some conversations with some who, I think, do, but I think that's really a powerful is a powerful arm of this cultural war is don't seed it to the left com. them out. Yes, call them out, and especially on something like Afghanistan, which we all know in our hearts. I guarantee you, you know the people that right that songs about russian and and civil rights and humanity and am right much better songs than I do. They know we're right on Afghanistan and they to be encouraged or pushed to join. costs, because it is not a political cause. It is a moral cos. And I think they do play the song played his home it's a made. It has given me a great deal of hope that The while what I saw on television just horrified me yeah horrified me

also at the same time the response. All of us still know that, dishonourable. Yes, that's dishonourable and as long as we have that in our hearts and that in common we can come back together. I think you're right Gabbler Roma, not all around us

on these. This still a merry laugh tat. When you win win, your secret matter means never.

the gap. Is there no use now take a trip Ben

I can't hear screen if she's she's she's, not here not to ever. after that left behind. and

Just sworn American, skin, tat. What was the moment What did you see on tv Were you feeling when? Because I know you said you, you beat the piano for not intending on now. Writing anything, the tar, the piano actually voted on piano and- What was the thing that pushed you to go yet

you know when the thirteen soldiers were killed. I was so angry because I think we all thought that could have been prevented with better planning and just what about honesty in running a here. I turn military operation, not a political one and bullets Is it really came a song when I was driving to mammoth with my wife and my son, and we had just left Afghanistan. The last soldier had left and I got a call from a friend Ashley, whose just call today to talk to you guys and she's an amazing person? She's does incredible humanitarian work around the world she's kind of my hero unsung, nobody will ever know her name and she, if you can ever convince her I'd like people to know her people should know her name and in the end we will tell the story of the heroes he called me talk awareness of the need to contact, I'm I'm organizing Eve acts of am sits from Afghanistan and maybe

in just the singer. Dude, I'm like. What's an am. Seventy eight is like an american citizen, and so, and there was quiet on the phone and after a while I said so, your risking your life to go rescue american citizens. We left behind and she's gonna started joking up and she said yes, who's gonna! Do it? If not us and That may be very angry became very personal, very personal, and that night I caught her wrote the blood on my hands, and then I was working on. It against those assurance, can put anything out just riding for cathartic reasons and then Few days later, I was driving back from swim class and I was listening to sum up. The excerpts from this president's extraordinary success, speech and and also even more impact for me. Was million ostiense coming out very soon after that, which I hope they would. qualified, I hope, you're good account say: look this really work an extraordinary success and there's things like Bob Roman there's things like

deadline that maybe we should talk about, but they did not there came out and said what would create left. Can you guys look at their release airlift erase the Guinness Book of Records Airlift and That made me very angry and scared scared, scared. Weather. I've always expected or generals to be they adults in the room. Ok and our president's do cookie thinks we sought with the last president. We see it with this president and I have always felt if it's really critical. If something risks or national security. If it's the american promise, if something has to do with honour, our generals will do Do the right thing and they did not and I'm like this- is on orwellian exercise. This is an orwellian movie were watching, and then I thought well yeah, Afghanistan's really a horrible thing, but it's not a GEO political risk to our survival. But unlike if I'm We can China right now.

if I'm Russia right now and I'm Salem ran right now. I'm goin me be now's the time so that night driving. Homeowners like I need a ride, a song and an emblem can to blinking, saint or allies? Are allies are with us just the night before analyzer with Jimmy didn't bite didn't take the call from the british Prime Minister for forty some hours when he said that the day after parliament condemned us so easy, I was Leary felt like I was watching Baghdad Bob. You know, remember Baghdad, borrowing, buddy, I'm we're going is this really the world would living in? driving home like I need a renaissance calling out Lincoln Milly and Austin and the president MIKE or maybe it's the same song, I got home and I wrote the on a course part, and I but the lines about Milly, blinking and ass. You know sometimes, do you remember how it first sounded when you first started writing yeah. Can you play it?

yeah I mean you know zero last and is there no honour and sharing can use background without the letters and it was very like very I know it's shouted lesson sound like it sounds like a nice viper fairies. I know it sounds like a nice melancholy song add I knew the singing at it. It had to have a different tone, so I said, experimenting with some vintage organs because to me I'm like I want this to have you'll be three: no some old, some old kindest ample like an old church, organ yeah, onto my samples, because I wanted the tone of the of the first version to reflect Vietnam because this was Vietnam on steroids, even though they are try not to do it so

found in Oregon and a kind of created this track same courts with is vibes. Sucks kind of like a no quarter led Zepplin vibe that really kind of of Neil young songs, Dillon Oh it is then that track is shaker, chick, adjusted, shaker that organ and vocal, and I think that's why that initial track was relatively our focus, it was very slow. If there is much instrumentation. It was really all about the words and I was really happy when posts have hey. This reminds me of like a sixties protests zone. It is it is, it is, it is yeah and so that's kind of and then I remind area of Ohio every time I hear it again Well those again, I grew up on those artists and- and I wanted this onto- have that's historical musical tone. So when people here it even the foes like all of this is not. Vietnam now really is, in our view, the ten times hundred times thousand times worse, but so that

was kind of my my plan it some he was strangely, It was scary to see the generals act. The way they did, but really a relief to see how no one broke the chain of command Yet this was not in a legal order, just a really bad order. Yes- and you know- and I know cause- I know a lot of people were There- you probably pianola below there- that killing them inside and yet we still held order. It was, the generals and the administration, but the the bridge person that, yes, you know in our armed forces, they'd did the right thing and that, while I horrified by what to the Pentagon was doing

I had hope, because I thought okay well, they're holding it together, and I know that their seething about so many in the state department. You know when I go out and play this song live I'll have folks come up after we talk a lot about veterans in their response to the song and how its its helping a voice for their pain and shame, but the active, that's the fascinating the active will come to me and say you know, thank you for saying this: it it Any of us agree with your sentiments, but we cannot say it because we will be courtmartialed. We will be kicked out of the how to me- and I understand, chain of command. You can't have everybody rising up against against the lead. ship. On the other hand, what I expected when the present gave his speech, and this is what a lot of the troops Tommy and again. This is not some singer dude. When this happen, I called Tarsi Gabert

this number one I love her. I wanted someone who was not republican, none of the right and someone who was a former military and, I said, Tal see Voice of America just call me. They want me to play the song and they want me to talk to the troops and ago. I want to make share, when I'm talking to our troops around the world, I'm saying the right thing tell me what their feeling tell me their sentiments are. They is angry at Milly, as I am do. They think he sold out his honour and he was very helpful to me. She said. Yes, people are very angry at the leadership. They feel that if you're a grunt on the lines and you make a mistake whether it's your fault or not, You are held accountable and they feel These guys were probably get hundredth dollar, keynotes and book deals and they cause this mass. But she said you know what you have to tell the troops, so this is not your fault. You served with honour use. everytime, you protected the soldier. Next to you, you you, and again. This is not even about giving freedom to the

and as we all want to save the world, we want to save everybody, but the troops job is to protect the person next to you and followers they see with honour and the fact their leaderships did not, and I look- the first time that I have ever seen in my if time. I know we ve been dishonourable in the gas, but first time in my lifetime, to where I saw dishonour and it was, it will. It was like up punch in the face over and over and over again, I was so humiliated, and so sad for but we were showing the rest of the world, we were suddenly the people that the left says we are yes, you know we all of a sudden where people are just cared about getting out and we care about anything else. was so dishonourable. It I didn't even know how to deal with it at first ice

No, I mean I wrote a song right, you get on the air and you crying you talk about it. We're all trying to deal with deal with it our way, but and the dishonor to me is Austin and Milly not resign. I remember when cotton ass Milly, why you resign. If you get are these said? actions that were ignored, I mean how many people- how many general resigned in the from administration two hundred and seventy. If you all these orders and you were ignored and this historical disaster. The greatest american shame, is on your watch. Why didn't you reside? And you know what Milly said he said, because that would be a political act I almost fell off off my couch lapping, the guy's been the biggest political actor for twenty years. He was the one the came out and said what a great airlift he was, the one he's been leaking to the press.

in the truck administration, there's even on article in the Wall Street Journal about he was suppressing. I rack investigations, so this guy's been political hack for twenty years and for him, to come out and say I won't resign, because it was a political act. I think is oh disgusting and to me talking The troops and people do in events, I think more anybody they are disgusted with Milly and his his kind of behaviour. lack of honour and our troops are too, but I always seller take a look, he may not be. The cannibal by the bad administration, but history will hold him a cannibal. This is gonna, be remembered, YAP really will be remembered. Let me how long did this take you, but a night once I had the kind of Milly lines and then frankly, we haven't. I about the most important lines of the song and the most important lines of the song which are more relevant now than ever? Are the I can't hear her scream if she's, not on tv you, because

I saw already when I was writing finishing the song that the meat as soon as our less soldier left, the meat basically decided in law, and let me ask you where method, because I've thought about this a lot. Yet tat goes wrong with us we are paying the highest prices in gas we have paid. I don't know how long winded she was in the old. The media would talk about the price of gas and everyone on the planet was that's all they were talking about the price of gas. Yet, if the media, which nobody trusts, nobody really is even watching yet if they don't bring it up, we don't talk about it. Yeah and you can just disappear What is that dangerous, it's not at them, Mark foresee when one one wing of the mainstream media one when one person- or for media organization, which is everybody but talk, radio in full, oxen blaze

has the narrative its increase. We dangers for democracy, and we know it out and I hate to do the what about ISM We know if tromp was president. Oh my gosh with ASEAN, and you know why I'm proud to say- and I think I can say the same for you- you would have reacted exactly the same way as you did, and I know I wouldn't area if Donald Trump did exactly the same thing. I would have lost my mind. The names when the sun would remain the same, only the names will change and here's another thing be Be austrian and having their, how many Americans trapped in Afghanistan Counter twenty four seven than they'd be running, Donald Trump would have been impeached and removed. Yes, he would have. Peace deservedly so, yes, and that again and remove and removed he have been removed. I feel very caught up confident about that. No talking to many of our republican senators who are specially- veterans, senators, oranges, incensed

and that is not healthy for this country, when everything is decided about what I view wherein weathers the music, the media and- I don't, I think, you're a bright board. That is twenty years ago. His eye The media is the great danger to our republic. It is and I would say the same thing if we had ninety percent of Republicans teaching our kids and ninety percent of Republican, talking points on Ray Television station. That is biggest threat to this country and you do a great trying to fight that other folks do. But it's tough for folks who don't you know they there airport, there's one tv and they get I mean the scene in town hall the other day. Not why on question on Afghanistan, not one so that such tells me there an arm of of the dam product party, which again I it's it's cysts, disturbing and scary, but that's where the arts comment yeah.

Let me limit, to another song it because I've heard you talk about. It. Took you thirty minutes to write Superman's. I don't know. If that's true said true Ah, I would say forty five for the most of the time, and I know that other songs taken months, yeah terrain, we didn t the hundred years yeah. A few months to write the riddle took a year, yeah yeah. What's the difference, happens. I guess if you could explain that you would solve it but yeah. I think Superman. I think I look at it- is a gift, it. Wasn't it wasn't blood on my hands? The same kind of my hands came very quickly. It almost felt, like I didn't write it is. It was also a very different kind of songs right. It doesn't sound like you, it doesn't fit into like the hundred years, Superman Guy, but that that came quickly to eye, but it does.

And I want to get to this later yet does fit the guy. who has written. I mean. You're one of the only people that I know that's writing popular music. That is american. think the greatest the only one that does p r for the american way of life is Ralph Lauren. I think he is the best advertisement for America yeah. He still believes in it doesn't run from it right he's, not ashamed of it right. He knows it right and and you have something and we'll get into with your with your childhood and grown up, but you have something in you that is very american live my first record was America town. You know I've written last greater, here again to lights, I mean I do right away about the country and our troops and Freedom

that's just what I care about. I Superman I always say, though, some no I'm not a very religious man, but I meant that was a gift from God. But he gave that to me. Where did start, you know it's. it was just you know. It was time in my life, I was writing thousands of songs damn I sat down one night like I did every night and I kind of over. as songwriters and artists, we like to have kind of symbolism and play off them and was feeling you no doubt in the dumb slag Mozart is young artists who are not being heard, and woe is me, nobody wants them. I'm not David Lee Raw king ain't doing backs lips at the forum; and so it was kind of a one selfish song, but a song about a young person To be heard, it's not easy to be me and with this thought of,

You know what, if Superman you know was human and you know it's hard to be the rock for everybody in oh and at the end of the day, they were just doing the best we can so I kind of took that symbolism, symbolism and wrote Superman as a human being, and I think that kind of iconic kind of hero HU I guess Superman does not fight the american way any more, but I guess feel fights about tomorrow, which again discuss me. Fights American, yet the american way yeah. He does fight the american way, but then so I wrote the song and people I think took that sentiment. They superman. We have now is an impostor hey. That's they passed. Yes, yes, I can you play that's through Superman that does fight

for the American can't stand just more than me miss and don't been even rats. May once you have the right to dream. It's me, you can sleep, sounds crazy or can't stand. She read rich Lookin for special things. Saddened me

It's now. Forty five minutes of work I thank you just amazing, the very idea of Superman digging for Kryptonite Yeah, he just wants to feel you know he wants to feel something. Sometimes I think we try to be the rock for everybody and CARE Rev, one else, but ourselves, especially those of us who kind of ambitious and like to win. But if you don't mind, if I don't care, if I take care of your self first, it's hard to take care of everyone else, and I think that has been with so any. I think I've found in Superman's, specially men did you know that was a hit? No no

Oh I want so. Do you have that sense when it's a hit. no no I mean I, I knew it wasn't. Even our first single I had a Sancho easy tonight which was kind of a guitar rock song. There was a number one song on AAA Radio, but in cross swords ten thousand records which nothing in the business, but it gave me a chance I for one more song and well said all right, you get one more and am I Well, if I'm goin over the cliff, I notice that when I played soup Man? People listened in they didn't listen to the other songs. I go well. If I'm gonna go off the cliff, let's go with Superman. And they're like now. It's too slow the radio's not onto the raiders not play in piano singer, songwriters! That's why we had you call yourself five for fighting, because the male singer songwriter is dead, the age of Lilith, fair boy bans grunge music,

and I said well, if I'm going to, let you know if this is it, I'm gonna go Superman in their like all right. It's your career, sorry and radio did not want to play it. Initially, it didn't fit their formats but a few back in the day there, a few programme directors that could take a chance and started. Reacting people started calling, but even then it was kind of hit a tipping point, but it- could have gone away in a week, but a few people stuck with it and then once it wants a conduct start to be heard. It became what it became I was a I was a programmer for years and years now and I used to him. You know pickets. Yet in the days when that actually happen and it's weird as I dont, have this ability anymore, but back then I could hear a song ago hit yeah hit hit hit yeah. and it must be frustrating as a writer, because you you must things go on,

this is just thing to me. and it goes nowhere. Is there a song that you is thing that is like that, you're like if If anything could be a hit. It would be this one for me it's funny because after Superman have you follow that you have the song, this cancer for New York, this kind of impact on that country You'll never have anything like that again. What, Jessica. Let's go them, firstly, will how did this happen? there, it was near paramedic. There. I can't acted. You about superman from nine eleven I was in London on nine eleven. I was over there. Actually we're going to start to launch Superman. I just got in there when the first place hit. I was like everybody else stunned and when the second plain head, I started calling everybody. I knew in New York to see if there

ok. But you know you might remember, there are no flights for a week. buddy was wrapped. I canceled concerts, I sat in my hotel room. I just you know now like everyone and I got a sense. The people were started. You Superman to play, news programmes to pay tribute to the fire writers and verse responders, but I didn't get a sense till I landed oh hair. I literally kiss the tarmac. I was so happy to be home and I did so getting emails from are found, these- who lost loved ones and and and I can do so, especially in New Yorkers, Scott, Shannon and some of those voting really embrace Superman and a few Two weeks later, I got a call from my friend re Krim, who was the head of each one and all old friend of mine, and he said Heyward doing this cancer for New York. Like all that's amazing. You know Mccartney's. Doing I'm like that's great, is what we'd like you to play. Am I really

I just like it is easier to seven to take, and I was scared to death. But then I was yeah, I mean the song, is kind of reflecting a lot of that, and- and I remember that the day I went to timidity square garden, you know the other day in my life? It's it would have been Heaven on earth. Like all my living influences were their Courtney towns in Elton Billy, and I expected it's funny, I expected to be like really early. Unlike more the new guys was a four hour concert right, so I kept open. I itinerary to and end I kept paging looking for me, and there is only like two pages left, I'm like. Oh thank God. They forgot me I'll, just like sit there I turn to the last page and like John Cougar, five for fighting Elton John JANET Jackson show over some willingness or public heartening and and then the nerves, replica surrogate who didn't this. Can't be this kind,

be so I kind of sat around for three hours and the whose trailer next to me, and that was up and down. I thought that was cool, and so I remember walking out there and funny story. I believe, never talked about this, so I got out there, has remembers alive, show twenty seven million people watching here, everybody everybody and they had a lot of technical problems because it's alive show they put it together, less men, and so I had energy in- and I have my cello player VIC sitting here and I'm sitting the piano. You know that at the end can't get any sound in my ears, so I, highly, and they were filling you know I forget who was introducing me a viper fighting in this- are filling Phil Fearful and then I'm playing Oh it's in there we go awry five refining boom and I hit the first cord

hundred decibels of white noise and each year and talk about moments of truth in your lawyer. So to what they say. Our time slows down, so I'm playing Introduce Superman's. I can't even here and I'm just watching my fingers and I have two choices. I can stop, my ears out start over which became a lame and embarrassing or I could keep going and I looked out into the crowd and there is huge. each burly union worker, you know, and all the folks at Matzoh Square, and they ve been down at ground zero for thirty days, just picking through the rubble. Just I can imagine, and he had to beers and I started singing Superman and he started singing with me and I just looked at him and we sang together and I never heard a thing. I just sing it with him and he started crying and I'm like just get through the song. Don't

look up, so I never heard a word of my performance. I watched the garden sing it and It was the most moving surreal experience of my life to this day and nothing will ever top at ever talk to him send him ever tell the story. I know I've told a couple times I mean I've talked to a lot of. I still keep in touch with LA the fire fighters and end the stations to go to New York. I'll pop in I don't know, it is I'm so grateful. He got me through probably the most important moment of my life. He saved singing the song with me, but I'd like to find the tape I wonder if its land or view can Nicosia from the back, see I'm yeah, but that just the talk The cancer for New York has I'm tired? meal at. What really kind of changed. My world view about music was watching the who play that night, because when they came out all these people who had not been able to release when they

play Baba and people were just singing and screaming, and crying and hugging, I'm like. Ok, this is white matters. charts nice ticket sales, nice payment fortune- nice, but it really showed me why music matters and how a song transcend and provide solace and cure to a nation and and that night the who did and and the rest of those performers as well it is harder for you, the song or the lyrics, lyrics lair. I mean, I know colonies, your favorite lira, so let it go and yeah. Why mean he's he's ass sir, are you know lyrics, I think El, it is, will get you on the radio. Lyrics will keep you there for thirty years. I mean, I think. If my favorite sisters, Bernie Topman, while our

it's gonna talk about burning. He ass. They ass, I mean yeah. Elton John would have been a jingle singer. Yes without those lyrics. Well, you ve heard some of this latest songs without Bernie yelling at Elton is my here. I be here without Elton Bernie Bernie Grey although seventies, Joanie Mitchell, indeed James Taylor, even some of their songs I just heard a song where the hell my phone- I don't if you ve, heard the have nots. that all you need to look at how we are well aware, the hell, my phone and I thought to myself. Is this really? Where were hats? Now? Where are those lyricists? I don't know- I mean it's easy for you know over the hill Rock ice to be curmudgeon and say all the music was grey when I was making it quite yeah, I do think I asked my

What songs of this age? Are? We gonna hear ten twenty years from now that define these times and may be? You heard a J R. I have learned I don't know much of I just hear from my kids like, and there are some good music out there. There's a liaison writers there. Are there ain't, no good singers? You should look at the age of our cause, it's moons and interesting. As my son a big fan of age. They are, and so I ice to figure out. my son of my daughter, I listen to their muse yeah me too, and in their their per Are they really are some really great lyrics draw great lyrics? so you did Superman. There was a huge head yeah. Now the pressure is on to follow it up up and this one I've heard you say took months, I spent two years made a record real. I didn't have the song to follow Superman and also understood that the tendency for

one hit wonders was too regurgitate the song. Your first song and I didn't want to write Superman too. We saw that movie How do you may give me an example if somebody regurgitating there so I dont unembarrassed people, but I there there are bans that have had a hit- and echo company pressures them to into that like all right and need to have the same tempo, and now they have the same key and using the same thing as it should. be version of their hit song, so I knew I had to have a song that would stand alone if Superman ever existed, but also be this, guy, it's hot If you go too far away from what people are familiar with, you lose your audience, but if just give them the same song, though just go, listen to Superman again, so I wrote three or four hundred songs, and I made a record and record company was not happy in other ready to drop me in, and I've been doodling with with ideas, and we use.

About you, songs come from lyrics or melodies. Sometimes they come from concepts. Just ideas posted notes, and an hundred years was that it was a time I was. I was sitting there and at my house, and life was pretty good Glenn night. I kind of realized my dream of been hit song, I had too little babies, a wonderful life, wonderful wife and life, and but I like many- about you sometimes like to dwell on the past or obsess on the future, a hard time recognising where I am now, I think many people, Do we do have that challenge? So I kind of- So what if I have a song, this cover wishes ever better than this and and wreck nice the moment even when it's not great and the verses are stages of our lives, and that really was the epiphany for the song. You know creativity usually comes in sparks.

and you have to be, to recognise when that comes, and you can go for months months. Months grind grand great great, great, great, great, great grandfather, and then here comes the spark and the spark was ok. Here's concept, say away. Nobody said it before. Let the verse is be our lot be the years of our life stages of our lives and then it- about writing it down, and that was the work ethic. part. So you know it's. The only thing I have ever heard that is even in this category is cash. It's a free Sinatra Song, you know when I was twenty five yeah yeah yeah yeah end its injured thing because I remember hearing that song when I was young yeah and I didn't really understand all of it tat. You know domain cause. I wasn't that age right, this song is has the same kind of combination to it. Yeah that I give your fifteen, you don't You don't really understand the the rest of the song. Well,

again, I you know, I wrote the song when I was my earth thirties, I'm kind of the top of the second verse, the family. On my mind, guy and I had no- I about the rest. In other forty five mid life crisis. You know I wrote that turns out. I was right, I had you know in the bridge, but the nice about a hundred years, is opposed the Superman, your Superman, could not right now. I could not write that song, I at its peak damn easy to be, may its pre damn easy to be you most of us right when you see people with real challenges so Superman, I couldn't write but hundred years always somewhere in that song and every night. When I play it, I know I kind of gig one. I hid my spot, which is now the bridge pretty soon will be the vamp and hopefully I'll make it to the vote, Sir, it did it took

three you know three or four months to get the thirty lines to get each. You know that the key to to art is making. It seems simple, it so hard to make things seem simple and see. oh yeah, you could have written and ten minutes, but but for most of us unless prodigy writers, like you know, Bernie in in Leonard Cohen, we have to go through hundreds of pieces of paper and trash cans and to get the thirty songs if we're force enough to get him right here I was, I was told once by somebody really admired. He said the difference. Tween a professional, and somebody who will never of will please be an amateur. Is we make it look easy yeah, but it's it's because we did. All of the hard work for so long suffering its mean willing to suffer yeah, yeah yeah around eight hundred yeah

fifty four or more caught in between ten and twenty in just three can in no way where you two or more. She feels make it our way. Back from this, never wish better. When you got regimes to see no way family on the sea is head and chase and then a moan and stop this never wish better. When you have time goes by suddenly blink sixty seven gone, scientists can remove always moving poorer mom, I'm just another moment. Just stream can in the way you want it to every day. In its day, is never a we better when you wholly got a hundred,

the drastic and have to. Let me just a driver. Can I have you, would you come back any time? Ok, yeah, because we are already in our into this, and I still have a lot more to talk to you about I do want to talk about your childhood Yeah your dad yeah was amazing how amazing and if you ever go to what is it a cost? Go yes and you're pushing the card around. Thank you. Yes, that's you guys right at here is my opera. Meyer products Goody. Then I wear proudly actually give it to you

if it were soon that's the family business yapping carts yeah, my dad was a actual physicist. He worked it worth it. Yes, he worked at the jet propulsion laboratory in the Golden age of spaceflight in the seventies while and went to you see, lay went to Pomona and I have the greatest childhood I I would go down to the that. appeal, mainframe on Sundays, and I place STAR Trek on their computer, putting the punch cards and while he would go work on it, obligation of the mariner spacecraft solely can bring home like oh here's, their latest pictures of Titan. from Saturn's moons It was amazing and dumb kind of got my science bug and when my grandpa there passed away, relatively young in the sixties, my dad left J, p l to go wrong this kind of down and dirty welding business in Watts, right by the watts, towers in allay and we had about thirty people at the time and I would

go down there and Ben wire. Any pay me a penny. We call them here. and I could soon after that, minimum wage is a more my idea and he kind of uses engineering skills to not just redesign things like shopping cart but, more importantly, the machines to make them he was building computers honour on our look again. table when Gates was building a miscarriage of our wow. If he just marketed that computers instead of shopping cart, this may be a different conversation. I gotta be a conversation yeah, but we ve I've worth at precision my whole life. It's it's great exam of the american dream you know we have about three hundred employees. Are you still in LOS Angeles, where in commerce believe it or not? One of the few manufacturers left in California and lie part of it is my dad's in his eighties and moving a business that big is challenging. We are actually does he still running it. He didn't

during covert. I took over ran it. I mean he work from home, but he still comes and now that he's got it exigencies eighty. ray, come in six days, a week still run in a show and- and I've been much more involved, the last five years, because it's really so much about our family. You know we have three hundred employees. Many of them have been with us thirty forty years and there's no other jobs for them than this, and during the pandemic it was really my mission to just keep keep the business alive for them. it's great- you see, as I said, we get people to start a minimum wage. Many of them can't speak English and we this tradition that every year we have a Christmas party in four kids if they get a b average, we give them gift cards and kids will line up and I'll get their gift cards we have kids twenty five years later, coming back from Stanford from Princeton, parents. You know these immigrants very

Very low income are now have putting their kids do. I believe schools they are driving ram trucks and have a middle class life, because they're in America and the american dream happens. It precision wire every day. So it's been a great grounding mechanism for me when all this entertainment gobbledygook going on when I go back there in the world, so so yeah I can do that with Grandpa next week, so I was just I just had dinner with the head of Toyota, North America, ok and he's the guy who moved them out of LOS Angeles, yeah moved them to Texas. Yes, and he said one of the reasons was he said it wasn't for me, wasn't fer, you know any of us. cats at the top. He said my wife talked about it and he said they're sitting in traffic for two hours. Yet that's for hours out of your day, they're going to work, they can't afford anything closer. He said it's,

it was wrong for the workers yet to have them they're. Well, I will be going looking at real estate after our little chat here today and I will hear in Texas. Yes, I ve moved away. They mean Toyota moved here too well, I think caliphs it is so toxic and it's not a blue or a red state, its litigious state, and they think that businesses EVIL and that all they do is basic. Take advantage of worker- and I do think, lot of folks who would want to get out just for affordable housing, but some have family their radio soon, I believe their family, it's a hard challenge, but I think the business to sustain itself. We will certainly have to have another location out of California were working on that you eat you just can't term. Yet you know what you said it exactly right, they are hostile to business. He and you know why I am generally Hoss towards unions, because of what they ve turned into right. However,

the union's are so important when the corporation has become hostile to the worker. He had me there's this. Balance that, when it's It's really balanced between everything. That's when everything works, yes and we just keep going from one end to the other, its amused mutually bent beneficial operation, you know ex dozen teach that well and I most of the politicians that come from that rural view have never run a business. They ve never seen the American in front of their eyes and which is sad and it's so sad to see. What's happened, California, I love this state, it's so beautiful. It was artistic bastion of creativity in the seventies to see what happens. California, it's really depressed, but, as you said, for businesses, not a choice. If you want to survive specially man factoring you can

it exists there and I fear it just gonna, be kind of like Hawaii Estate of you, no government, government, officials and tourism, be little left. Besides big boxes of fear, warehouses naturally said really so early, Sir John, so good to see you you're the best becomes I meant that they give just a reminder, I'd love you to rate and subscribe to the podcast and passes on to a friend, so it can be discovered by other people.