You remember the Trump days before the mainstream media went on a four year vacation. They non stop like Derange bullies, obsessed with destroying Donald Trump, One of the rare instances of the media waking up during the Biden years is their obsession with January six. The insurrection and I say that in quotes because they have that word like a thief, pushes stolen tv. meanwhile, the Gulf last summer is anarchist in radicals literally burned american cities to the ground, resulting in two billion dollars worth of damage, and how many countless people have died, since then for this experiment with our cops is so more than a little strange that they ve spent so much time on the insurrection, narrative, after a while, you have to wonder why is it still talking about it, because really talking about it there there

insisting that it was an insurrection without really giving us anything strangely their insistence focuses on the unquestioned ability of the whole situation. Will have some questions, and today's guess asked these questions. In a more recent article, four revolver news, titled meet re apps, the Perfect protected, put vodka tour, who appears to have led the very first one six attack on the EU, as capital deeper than that, it's more of an expos ay and a very comprehensive one, at the centre of all of it, is this mysterious guy from Arizona name, re apps, a name. Everyone should know and a name that you will not here on CNN and Pr Msnbc or from the administration,

we know that he was on the FBI most wanted list. He was one of the first twenty people added to the list but he was removed just one day after revolver published an article about him that alone would see. To be enough to raise the alarm. We know this guy re apps was there. We know that he was encouraging Trump supporters to go into the capital the night before the rally There's footage of him doing it response of him telling people who are trapped supporters hey, we gotta, go in and take over the capital people. We're trump supporters began to chant FED fed because they felt he was a FED plant as well? who's. The footage of him on the morning of January six telling people to go to the capital. Thirty minutes before the end of Trump speech,.

recently in a house oversight. Hearing representative Thomas Massey asked Attorney General Garland about the situation. And garland was surprisingly close. Lipped about the matter. This whole thing ends in a question not answer. The question is why. Well, we don't know But we need to find out, and garland is not the guy, as you will find out at the end of this podcast, the guy to really be looking into it. Today's gas- has devoted himself to this cause. Please welcome daring. Beady you may not know this about me, but I'm a man of taste. Let me look at me I also work out. I do curls more like this, a lot and I do curls especially will chocolate. It's my favorite chocolate.

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calm, promo code back fifteen different. How does a a guy who's a professor at Duke University. who likes Donald Trump, a. How did you even get that job was head under cover and then you left there to go speech right for Donald Trump yes well, I was an academic that was my first profession. I majored in mathematics is an undergraduate and did a Phd in the Plaza mathematics as presented through the lens of a german philosopher, Martin Heidegger, and then I was teaching at Duke and one of the interests I had was sort of the underlying logic,

behind various political coalitions, and I had a thesis that essentially the underlying logic behind the republic in coalition, had become obsolete post cold war, and it was, you for a certain type of realignment and in fact I presented this thesis through a poor Cyrus teaching called left right and centre and contemporaneous do. That course. We saw it play out in real time with the emergence of a and to assert, extent with the emergence of sanders on the last saw is very interesting to teach that- and of course I was, I was not just stay- detached theoretical observer. I was a supporter of tromp ordered the underlying a realignment that I thought he represented symbolise symbolized end. I was in fact, if you can, we, the only non tenured academic in the country to have publicly indoors

trumps candidacy- and I was also the only faculty member- I do to have correctly predicted the election Which, I think irritate I mean I think you did did So- What is the realignment that you You saw right, Made there was a number of factors and me a lot of things have changed since then, and so to some extent the analysis requires its own kind of update, but at the time you just saw the kindness. types of refrains coming out of a job p and rested messaging as though we ever gone kind of beyond the Reagan years yet as though the kind of economic fallout Sissy, represented in the Reagan years, is somehow essentially connected with the various other positions, for instance on four, and policy on cultural policy and so forth, in I think alike,

at times, because people see various political issues package together. They assume that there is some type of essential coherence when in a lot of cases, their package. Together an arbitrary way or maybe not entirely arbitrary, but contingent to the underlying political circumstances that existed, and I think the way that a lot of their GNP platform in the movement conservative platform constructed. It was very much attached to the peculiar circumstances of that kind. War period and required a certain type of substantial software update as it were, in order to address the emerging challenges of the twenty first century. So we and we, we have free aligned I find myself I've always been a freedom of speech guy you know. First, amendment is really all of them are, but the first amendment, especially with what I do- I've always been there and

the left used to be the champion of that and now we're on opposite sides IVO span? A guy who said well, you know big big operations. What are they gonna do now realising what corporations that are bigger than countries in many countries in the cases of these corporations, now combined can do and are doing so now, I'm I'm almost I wouldn't say I'm an anti corporate, but I'm I am very suspicious and I want nothing. I want our government to do nothing with the private sector and all that's, that's a huge change. Just in me we all flipping and finding ourselves in in in proximity of very strange bedfellows right and

It is simply a matter of pragmatically addressing the predominant threats to liberty that exists today, and they take different forms and SK. I guess a partial update from the issues I was focused on back during the trunk candidacy back then it will somewhat significant and even a little bit novel to suggest a. We need to reassess our relationship between sort of economic theory and liberty, and there is in this sort of simplified version. In what free market is when really people use that terms so loosely as to encompass a free market of the neighbourhood lemonade stand in the free market of something like major institutions like Goldman Sachs, but the market. which Goldman Sachs exists is not the same market as the Athena. Let neighbour

lemonade status, and we didn't. We didn't quite have the vocabulary to recognise those important distinction but I would say that at this point we have gone a little bit far in the other direction at at first, it was necessary to say like look just because these big tech companies are technically in the private sector in a very technical sense doesn't mean that we should we ignore the overwhelming threat that they pose to free speech and the ability to deliberate in the public sphere, which a precondition of a democratic society correct? You need free speech in order had the democratic society, and so I think, just because we won- was sort of so fixated on this public sphere, private sector distinction. It was important to say, look just because the threats are coming from the private sector. Doesn't

and we should ignore them because there is sacrosanct by virtue of not being. But I think at this point I am almost inclined to kind of pushed back in the other direction in the following sense. Is, I think, ultimately, what big tag is there the major companies, Facebook and all these other things. You cannot understand, ultimately what they are without, recognising that they are essentially extensions of the american state and in fact and the government at the highest levels in the State Department and other spheres. They use Google, Facebook and these other entities as an the girl component of their public diplomacy operations and of their propaganda, operations, its use to facilitate our objectives, and we saw this- and we saw this with the arab spring. Clearly, exactly exactly, and in fact and that's,

not even to mention the de facto revolving door that now exists between sea, high level positions at these tech companies and the government, and also the fact that these come These are doing major contract work for that govern. I think the the autumn. Position is not quite or public versus private. The ultimate, I think, wreck recognition. We need it to me is at the highest level. That distinction is not guy meaningful behave like this, and in the private sector land and in the case of big tech. These companies are not open the private sector, in the way that we imagine- and I think, that's important when we try to assess solutions, because can't solve the bottleneck simply by saying oh, we need some other kind of private sector competitor at that level in the economy. Everything blends in to the state

Ultimately, the bottleneck to a solution is the security state which has been a Primary driver of these censorship regime that we have- and I think that could be an interesting subway, I think, into the biggest story really of the past three years. there's that encompasses a lot of my reporting on one six, which is the fact that the entire national Security apparatus in this country has been re, purposed and redeployed domestically, and that includes the big tech companies in so far as the instruments of this security state the entire apparatus we have is now I've been re oriented towards silencing and suppressing precisely those insurgent populous energies that animal the trump candidacy, but also animate other populist movements on the left as well, and that's where we

find ourselves. I think it's a very dangerous place, and many people are still coming to realise is that this is the reality and how dangerous it it. Actually is using it, when a take to get people to wake up, I mean it is so clear and obvious. Summing Joe, stir in cop twenty six to day I think it was. The president announced a partnership with his administration, the United States government and the word economic forum, twenty exciting its twenty or twenty five different companies, where it's a public private partnership. This is This is a should be terrifying especially when you see groups like you, know, bill gates and Microsoft standing up on the stage as well, I mean this is everywhere. It is. Is it going to be too late by the time we wake up?

Tough question I mean it remains to be seen and I think partially it's it's a matter of political cycle DE on the right, and this is why my news organization revolver. That news I think, we're ah premier organization, specially cater to the right to a straight. The threats are presented by this re purpose: national security so I think there is a reason that traditionally, a lot of the best protection of this security state have come from the left because disposition, surely the left to be done? I said ass they liked it. They have to think of themselves, as critics of corrupt institutions of power. Now I think in practice we can all see that the left overwhelmingly functions as an instrument, not those powerful institution, but as a matter of how they need to think of themselves, they have to think of themselves as challenging powerful corrupt institution

whereas on the right, I think there is a very different political psychology at work, and that is people on the right want to think of themselves as generating just institutions of authority, and so a more difficult proposition to get people on the right to recognise that these, it's you since many of which you add a history of generating and supporting like the FBI, like the deal at its highest levels like the national security apparatus. More broadly, that these have been I'm extremely corrupt and are basically pointing their guns and their fingers at you, and I have the time. I don't think that view I don't the problem is that big, getting the right to realise that? I think I think When you see what happened to Donald Trump and in our this all during that. If they can do this to the President of the United States, what power

do you think you have over them I mean they may they can destroy, lie cheat steal, oh fabricate eavesdrop spy on the president, the average person has no chance, and for the very first I've always been very pro law enforcement and pro FBI, etc, etc. You know I've, I'm scared, nickel about corruption, but I ve always felt like it. So you know a few bad apples when it comes to Washington DC? There isn't an institution that I believe in now, I believe, in the principles that were lined up by our founders and are you know for show for the little people in the archives. But those are, never used by those institutions. It seems to me- and you don't You don't know where to turn. You know you turn to the press yard? it turned to the government

where'd. Where does the average person turn and that's why I think reporting is is so important and I I want to get into The way this has been used for January six and and Ray apps I want to get into, but I think we should start with Whittemore. and in tell that story, yes now. Whittemore is a very important story and actually do the very first peace, that kind of focus appropriate narrative on January six, before the first revolver died news peace, really analyze. The charging documents in relate The old keepers and presented the thesis that there very likely at FBI all men here before that there are indeed

spread narratives going on, like all it was a bunch of people taking selfies and there's a lot of truth that oh, it was Santee, far summit, but there wasn't the appropriate focus, for that, and part of the reason is that we have looked at the time, Jeanne documents and seeing this sign of reverse Rico structure, whereby you have a lot of the little fish wallowing in prison. Where and the bigger fish, of the militia groups, in some cases, just enjoying their lies. Wiring away, free but also its just again. I think it goes to this kind of veneration. Really institutions is trust in authority. Saying, like you know me, they would do this, but they were do that lets when going inside man and of course, if you look at the law history of the FBI, it's stupid. It's very.

clear that they are capable of doing those things and they have, but We pointed out in this very first revolver peace that you don't need to go back to the sixties and look at the history of the FBI. You just need to go back a couple months, before the so called. Siege of the national capital, to this Michigan plot, the imagine now what was the Michigan plot many of your view is probably heard about it in the context of the media ginning up this idea, like all that I'm supporters are terrorists. They tried to kidnap thee. again governor and what now Well, it turns out that out of this, so called Michigan plot twelve of the twenty six plotters. were either fed agents were fed informants, twelve out of twenty six, which is a remarkable ratio. Now

just a couple more- and you know it's really a FED right now, it's it's it's remarkable, so that alone, in it is, is a is a whopping statistic, but what else? Well most people think of it. This Michigan plot as the plot to kidnap the governor, which it allegedly was, but it was also a plot. storm the state capital to storm the state. Michigan capital. So there is an interesting similarity there in also involved predominantly an organization called the three per centres, which is one of the three main militia groups, also imputed to the quota. Unquote insurrection, any aspects of one sick and so you have the same militia group the same historically, the capital. Only in this case, we know for a fact that twelve out of the twenty six so called plotters were actually fettes

and I always say the cherry on top of the Michelin Case- is that the- the FBI, director of the Detroit Field Office, sewers, suitably overseeing this entire infiltration operation in mesh again the day after so called plotters were arrested. Fbi director re promoted this Detroit, he alone this guy too, they D C field Office, Zaman, Stephen, the antonio- it was promoted to the Deasey Office, where he went on to oversee the one six investigations There are many many fascinating, fascinating parallels to say the least. Now I to be very precise in what I'm plainly, what I'm not claim me? I'm not saying that the fact that the Michigan case, which involved one of the same militia groups involved the same applied to storm estate capital and whose

Rector was promoted to D C, the day after the plotters were arrested. saying that all of those coincidences logically lie that one six was the same thing. saying that there is independent, compelling evidence for one six, but for those who have some kind of heuristic blockages, though this discussion, really be plausible? We wouldn't really do that. I'm saying let you two: are you don't need to read a history of the FBI? All you need to do is go months back where they're doing precisely the same thing that I'm suggested went on and one six idiot does it. You don't need an intuition boost from going back in history. You just need to look at what they did a couple months before. Or involving the same groups and the same plot? So let me stop here. There was a book written and try to remember who wrote it called black listed by history and I

the first couple of chapters and it was kind of a red pill. I read them couple chapters- and I realized if this were true- it change me. I would have to change a lot of the things that I believed about our history, about government, etc, etc. And I I I closed the book and said I've got to talk to the author first, I want to know the author sure he's not a crazy man, and you know and called him. I think he was over in England and he made perfect sense, and so I read it and it chain, to my mind, that book changed me I saw events in american history it indifferent way. This is one of those things, but this one. If this is now it's not history, and it involves the the most respected american law enforcement.

and the highest law enforcement agency in Amerika, and I think it's frightening to go down this road. I would imagine if I'm listening to you, there's a big part of me that want to believe this whether its true or not. I want to, because what it means can we talk about the psychology of this just a little bit before we move on. Now absolutely and it gets back to a kind of what I was saying earlier is that I think part of especially the conservative political psychology is. We want to be defenders of just institutions of authority- what happens when those institutions are far from just and not only the unjust but their hostile towards us. That's

that's a very difficult position to be in verses, those on the left to are already primed to challenge, unjust, its uses of authority, at least supporting their political psychology. We want to be in a car a country where we can support our law enforcement institutions, especially delay. The FBI we want to be able to support are generals in the military and so forth, and we want to be able to do this, and so it set tougher, upheld Swallowed to see that they are actually not functionally anywhere near the way that we would anyone want or expect I think it goes deeper than that it goes to war, I'm alone. If I I believe this, the power. structure is now against me, all those things I used to hang on two of you. No truth: Justice in the american way, those are all gone and so now that I have to choose

a new course, and it's completely foreign to me too. I have The face that good guys win in the end right and I totally understand that, and I wish I could present some kind of optimistic rejoinder, in which I can, if sincerely believe, but I'd, it's a difficult position, but I would say that it's better to have a sober understanding of the reality, then to rest time on a fix because it's only on the basis of a sober understanding of what Europe against the Euro finally, in a position to address- even if it's a long hard. versus, I think in terms of the implications of many people, again on the right are so, I think, inordinately focus,

on winning elections, not to say that it's a bad thing to win alleges, obviously as a great thing, and we had a great result in Virginia the other day. But I think it's important to know that winning elections, can only get you so far. If you have the security apparatus against you, and I think that this story the Trump Administration illustrates that very well is that you can have the people on your side, but if every major institution is against you there's only so much you can accomplish especially when the national security state is against you, when you have Organizations like the FBI, Army, counter intelligence and so forth. Looking at right wing, groups as national security targets to infiltrate and to set up. That is a profound poet Cole bottleneck that is not captured in this kind of narrow focus

on winning election, so I've been inclined to say that unless and until we bring this national security bureaucracy to heal and back within its appropriate place. pretty much all of electoral politics will be fake and performative, because we'll run up on this bottleneck, and cause there's this feeling of being so alone and helpless. When you recognise the institutions that are arrayed against you, there's this strong urged to just kind of sucker electoral victory is like a pass, a fire and to pretend, but the of these this is the answer to it: but the answer. I think it needs to be much more robust. Much more difficult it, it requires narrative focus which I think I'm very happy, that Reporting has provided some narrative focus, but

the solution is much more difficult than simply all. We need to win the next election because yeah so late. Let's go to the solution after we talk about the issue, but start with January six. What most people will tell you happen? Is they were there? No verifying the vote. and people went, goes speech. Some people went, they got out of hand. Some of them were were Dane this are crazy and most people there were not the police, worse completely surprised by it Nancy Pelosi. Hadn't done anything to make sure that We had more security there, but she was surprised by it and it took everybody by surprise and then we, I'm not sure, got the bad guys ennui. I know we ve got a lotta grandma's, but I'm not sure

yet the bad guys that's pretty, the narrative that I think you would hear from the average person that Minos of the ground or leaning right right and yes, it is what what's important about their narrative, and how much energy, how much and how much of that is That is even true what I just said right. Well, some of it. Some of it is true, I think, the the general truth about the people that you see in the end, the footage and everything is that there were. people there for a tramp rally that there were some things that the capital please did, that sort of incited are the energy of the crowd unnecessarily and a lot of people got caught up in a sort of crowd. Psychology in them was, I think, gender by various provocateurs which we can get to, but people they get caught up in the crowd. Psychology, in many cases,

the doors at the capital were open, and so all of these facts there's combine. You get what you see the notion that any of the Criminal activity on one six elevates anywhere near nine eleven, which is now the preferred comparison in the government and the regime media is totally absurd. Ah, the only person killed in cold blood was a tramp supporter, veteran called Ashley Babbitt. So so in that respect that basically The narrative is as for the infiltration, then That's a very specific sub group. that involves some the militia organizations that, as you know, in the reporting on one six is the militia. The groups that did this court import military stacking, which was not very impressive in the first place, but

there. There is a very narrow group of sort of malicious that are being charged with spirits, see to obstruct in official proceeding. Those are the most serious charges are the keeper Militia group, specifically as the most prosecuted group associate with one sex, and when you look at the militia groups, especially at the leadership level. That's when it starts to get very suspect He says to what role did the feds play and, as I mentioned in the very first revolvers, decent peace presenting this, we looked at the charges. documents related to the militia groups, and what we found is in many cases, the p reference to those charging documents were occupied, a more senior position than those people charged behavior is more egregious. Then the people charged there France, but they're, not in indicted, and so we said, here's a real

the question that the feds have to answer? How do you account these selective non prosecution of more senior Malaysia members who, at the other, people, are indicted, they're doing just as much, if not more. How do you account for that and in it, although at peace with zero, the and on a very specific person that is Stuart, roads, who's, the founder and head of the old keepers- and we pointed the extraordinary degree of federal protection that he seems to enjoy that is very difficult to provide an innocent explanation for it, and so I am happy to go into deeds let's go there to details of that, but this is this is, I think, Important part of the story. our two sort of narrative- possibilities. clover, char, Senator Club, it's our asset, the I direct array, she said: don't you

Kid yourself that you didn't have any informants in there and you just Worden readying you're ready for the event. So don't you just kick yourself and he said oh yeah, we you will try to do better next time and so forth. She set up the question for him to deflect then say: did you have just said? Don't you kill yourself that you didn't have well now. We know for a fact that they did have. In fact, there is a New York Times, peace that came out essentially dictating some of our original reporting at revolver NEWS and the New York Times peace talks out a proud boy who was in the capital that day texting it FBI handler contemporaneously throughout the entire day. Now one thing if the feds had informants what that means is that the feds would have been informed in advance and simply for whatever reason decided to do nothing to provide the requisite security to prevent it. So they sit back and

let it happen on purpose, presumably for political reasons, but there and even darker possibility, which I think the evidence points to strongly, which is more than just that they were informed and they did nothing, but some of the key most pro active play. Years in some of the most egregious elements of one six were actually government affiliated or governed. people, and that is to say there is a distinction between the government knowing in advance and doing nothing and the government taking a more pro active participatory role in inciting the event the latter category is precisely what we saw happened in Michigan, and I think it's all what we see in one sex. well. That would explain why they did nothing. Let's go back prior to one six wended. This plot. Do you think so Do you have any idea

I dont know. What I do know is that there is in the mountains, documentary footage and all the video that exists related to one six theirs, there's footage of One person who exe recently and repeatedly calls for going into the capital the evening before and that person is re apps, and this is not just some random crazy in the crowd who comes up with an idea, you know maybe on drugs as they all, let's go into the capital guys and then that's it now, he's going from group to grip on the fair, The- being before and yellow different people on the streets there for different reasons. Some people were pissed off the election. Some people just wanted to swerve tromp. Some people just wanted to see you going on there. People clashing with black lives matter, there's lots of different people. In energy, and he went

The various groups refocusing them on his stated Michigan is stated mention some. It is stated mission, which was we need to go into the capital and He was not received very well people. In fact. It's you explicitly said: no, this guy's a FED. He didn't give up and he didn't disappear. In fact, you There was a veritable where's while those situation on the six literally everywhere all sides of the capital seeming to persist with his Michigan directing people to the capital cities. We need to go into the capital, that's where our problems are and then remarkably, but not surprising. Given his past statements, the very first breach of the capital grounds, the bear years which occurred as tromp was speaking. It's important to point out this is

for the main crowd went to the capital at all. There were people by those barriers you broke them down and the very first breach of the capital grounds. Guy, call Ryan, SAM Cell in jail and has been a person. you did in jail under pretty horrible condition, but he was a guy who first broke down the fence and re ass was standing right by hand and we spurred in his ear two seconds before you breaks down the barrier. This is the end and where easy. We he's at his ranch right now. Initially the FBI put his face on its twenty most wanted people for January six. They say they did their hospital where they say we need the public's help in identifying this man, the internet being the remarkable sort of crowd source research tool that it is came up

with his identity within days. The feds did nothing with it, just crickets until finally, like four months late, the day after revolver NEWS ran its peace on Earth Keeper founder in leader, Stuart roads? The day after that, the FBI quietly scrubbed Ray his face from its most wanted database and ever since then they had nothing to say about this guy who of all people from the video evidence seems to be. If there is anyone who is one of the main orchestrator ears, the initial breach it's this guy. He is riding around a golf cart by his ranch and other people, the grandma's are riding away and Abu Ghraib style conditions in DC presence, or that doesn't add up. So tell me, it doesn't tell me who he is. What do we know about him?

well. We know that he is a better any marine veteran. He is, I would say, in many ways, quite impressive, I was particularly impressed by his professional demeanor throughout the fifth and sixth. There is a lot of a lot of energy and the crowds alot of people that calling him a fad. Like he's the Aqua That he demonstrated was professional and quite impressive. He was there. He looks like he was there to do a job and he was focused on that job. He had a natural kind of command over. The crowds is remarkable. How he's just standing there say people go here, people go there. People listen to him because he seems like a He has an authoritative presence in that respect, but he was very focus, very cool, very detached and professional, which again, I think, is a big red flag, because one of the things that you typically

Seeing provocateurs is this bees are. This is the kind of bizarre the nation of emotional detached with out radical suggestions, whereas there are a lot of people emotionally kind of wrapped up in India, the and they were not cool and detached ended, whereas he was so the old causing cucumber. That's going to the capital badical suggestions combined with a detached demeanor. So that's another interesting thing about him, another thing which might explain why the F B, I decided to scrub his face the day after that Evolving news report are no keepers. Your roads is that he's a former president. A Arizona chapter of the old keepers so

That's kind of interesting and in our peace may present all kinds of footage. From the past him paddling around with Stuart rose and such his former boss is warmer keeper boss. So that's also an interesting thing about him and that's that space Clearly, that's basically at all right, so I mean We had a nationwide search. This was something they were. They took the military down, put it on. You know, stand zero stand by to be get anybody who might be a radical. You have this. that they identified early, there's tape of him. castrating. And he's on the most wanted list, and then they don't arrest him. They don't question him. Nothing that I know of like it's possible that they questioned him and you just don't know about it, but he's he's not indicted,

is not indicted. Now there is a possibility that they questioned him and he agreed to kind of cooperate in that Why they're not touching him? I don't find that explanation, terribly persuasive, simply because of seemingly Pradesh professional, provocative role that he played on January Fit and in January Sixth, and the fact that, in my judgment, looking at the footage of him, he appears to be the one of the primary orchestrator none of the initial breach so who could he be, b he be informing on. He seems to be a major player in that, and so the idea that they would just kind of leave them after putting him on their top twenty most wanted is bizarre, as I think the case of re apps, is it's hard to presented innocent explanation, war, and similarly, I think the case of Stewart roads which, if we have time

getting let's go there now he is let's go there. Oh what a year. What should your audience? I know about him weep we ve done so much extensive reporting on himself for the full stop go to evolve or that news read. The full report is incredibly comprehensive, but what are the cliff notes with this guy so Here is the founder and the leader of the oath keepers, which is the most prosecuted militia group associated with one sex, the old keeper, is is involved in all of the buggy man type reporting on one sixth of the military stack of they can spirits, the all this stuff. All of the buggy man reporting is really most concentrated in the oath keepers answer: is the founder of the of and when you look at the charging documents I'll take a specific one. So there's an individual called Thomas Caldwell

presented in the media as a leader of the keepers, it's in fact he's not a leader. Far from it is not even an official member is somewhat homely, gosh stir whose store roads met at a Eddie. You, some kind of political rally before and they got to talking and basically that's how Caldwell wrapped up into he's a sixty year old disabled. military that he is not terribly threatening in any capacity, but he's indicted, he faces very serious charges. Conspiracy, charges and the remark one thing is: if you look at the documents in his charges, the governments case when they argue for the existence of this conspiracy. Rely overwhelmingly to the point of near exclusivity, I'm Stewart roads is statements and actions and again to give the full account

you have to look at the article. Are we need more time, I'm just giving the cliff notes, but if you look at those I miss the government relies overwhelmingly near exclusively on Stuart Road. The statements and actions to constitute the conspiracy that their choice Jane Thomas Caldwell, for which very strange, because It were a Rico type situation, where the latter way around guys yeah they. Not the little guys to get the big eyes they all do that when they don't have enough to go after the big eyes, whereas in the case of roads. Ah, there's evidence of him. Trespassing on the cap, the stupid and trivial charge, but others have been charged for it and if there is desperate as they claim to be for him there, I've gotten him for that, Furthermore, if their charge called well for this

security and their using roses statements and actions to constitute that very conspiracy. They could have the odds. very puzzling why they haven't gone after him and in perhaps even more puzzling than the fact that stuff rose after eight or nine months remains unindicted. While a lot of the underlings and fellow traveller remain indicted is the fact that roads hasn't even been properly searched. So a lot of people, even people who are in charge with one six related things. People have the remotest association with it, received the I have received four kitchen sink treatment by the eye in terms of the feds going to people's houses. I now running down the door, you, I know a couple in Alaska that that exactly

As you know, the early in the morning, while they're lying in bed, they come knocking on the door and throw them down, and I mean exactly and they take everything every several electronic device in the house. They take their seats. in cases of them, taking like some eleven year old girls tablet, because it happened to be in the house so that the full treatment and that's a dream and that people get who aren't even charge the fair. I'm just saying- or they might have indications with people without we might want to charge, and yet, in the case of Stewart Roads whose fault calls are everywhere in the charging documents whose the founder and head of the most prosecuted group associated with one sex. The extent of the circuit conducted on him was they took a seat? we'll sell thrown from him when he was in his car four months after January. Six, for months out. Are you it's how it? How does or do they

just not answer. How does somebody know J, don't answer? They don't answer. They don't answer I would offer Possible explanation- and that is this, that they don't, What his electronic communications, because, as we saw in the story of new time story of this proud way in the capital tax to his FBI handler and as we saw in the Michigan case, one of the key informants basically got it because a leaked text message between informing and the handler the feds don't want the electronic abbot, because there's something called the Brady rule that obliges the prosecution in the government to hand over all potentially exculpatory evidence to the defence and outwards only include evidence regarding informants an undercover agents, so if it

it is the case that roads has some type of undisclosed relationship with the feds. They would have area incentive not to collect his electronics, give him four months to dispose of whatever kind of criminal the communications he might have an do just at all just total performance, r type search where they take a single cell, formats after and even in that case according to? a lawyer for for roads, she suggested that that search protein, their investigation into someone else, so that may not even be in investigations rose and yet all of the left wing media, all of the mainstream media they're, the ones now who want to trust the thought Is there saying

any minute. Now any minute now, they're gonna get roads because he's the big dad orchestrated the whole thing any minute now and there just afflicted with this profound cognitive dissonance because most parsimonious and persuasive. Explanation for why he enjoys such federal protection is not one that these mainstream and left wing journalists want to entertain because then they have to acknowledge that there are serving these powerful and corrupt institutions rather than challenging them, and that this whole narrative been set up not just to throw grandma was in prison for trivial offences, but in a larger sense. The whole narrative that's been set up to cast over seventy million Americans as domestic terrorist for their political beliefs that that whole narrative is based on not just a lie, but a malicious lie and a malicious scheme by their own gum made the very national

security institutions that want to prosecute this false domestic war on terror, responsible for setting up the false narrative in the first place. this is so crazy. I mean this is the Reichstag fire and I Can we found out? How do we find out in the end that it was the the communist, it said it but It could very well have been you know the Nazis, who said it in blamed it. I remember on January six when this was happening before, the break in before the speech. I said, if you're going, please watch who you're standing next to I mean this just feels like the perfect opportunity to ever I stopped fire. when I first when I first saw it didn't, seem to me that it was. I mean I've been around conservatives for a very long time there the one that burn up the capital. You know domain

right and there's yeah. There's a remarkable record of all the tramp rallies how many of their been riots like zero, right and an and that's and that's why it so obvious when someone, unlike re absence, we need to go into the capital, is so obvious, that he wasn't part of the group it in and that's why people literally started chanting, fat, fat, fat after he said that, because it was so out of keeping with the ordinary that of those traps. Supporters of those Yo Americans. He just wanted to express their beliefs, peaceful any organised demonstration. So so So let me go back to your view made this point a couple of times at the prison, situation of the jail situation is atrocious. you can't hear this, except from one of their attorneys

You know you there's risk just said. I you gotta, go look and they came back and said all others, nothing bad there. It's it's fine other parts of the jailer worse, but there part of the jail seem to be ok. What's the truth on how these people are being held. Well. This is a subject on which I am I've taken an interest, but I cannot claim to be a subject matter expert in there's a great reporter, sort of my partner comrade in reporting this called Julie Cal. and she is an expert on the conditions in these prisons, which I can only say from what I've. What I've read are really atrocious. Their people being held in solitary confinement, their people in all types of horrible conditions, theirs more than a lot of these people are old and they're, not in a position health wise too,

to live under these have squalid and difficult missions- and there are some cases of direct physical abuse on the part of guards. In fact, Ryan Amselle the person who allegedly, is the first person to break down the barriers after re apps whispered in his ear two seconds before he was beaten up by guards, and I find that his case actually very interesting because, first of all he knows what re S whispered in his ear. I find that very interesting. He knows I dont think that he is a fat. I thank you someone who is just kind of foolish and suggestible who did something. Very stupid and unstable. That doesn't and he deserves to be brutalized by prison guards, but

he certainly would know what re up sad and he might have more insight into the other people who were ordered straining the initial breach, and it could be and intimidation factor could be why they beating Emma, because they say look, you know if you, if you go pub, with what you might or might not know about re up, these other people, you're gonna, have how, the pay and additionally, it's interesting that, whereas all these other people, the government, prefers this charge like multiple tat charges with conspiracy, it is SAM Cell, is charged as a stand alone case, which also does it make any sense, because there were like coordinated activity leading to that initial breach. So why? In so many other cases, including the keepers cases, they charge a bunch of people in conspiracy and they hit this guy. We stand alone case. It seems like their deliberately constructing thing, says to court him off from the other people,

but he was coordinating it. Unity with leading up to that initial breach in order possibly to protect, people like re ups. So is there such a thing as a fair trial here is a reserve? Is such a thing is getting to the bottom of this? Well, those two different questions, I hope that there is a possibility of a fair trial. Sir, it's it's a dubious prospect in D c, That's for sure, so. Dangerous action will matter. Other factors will matter. In some cases these people have incompetent legal counsel and in some cases it might even be worse than in competence, which is something I'm looking into, but is due speculative at this point to go into greater detail, but as for the truth. Come out. Well, I did mention a this thing called the Brady rule and

Does obliged the government to hand over potentially exculpatory information that could involve information about informants in the Michigan case, then I'll leave defence counsel. In that case, I believe his name is Blanchard. Has me is this a key part of the defence strategy to point out the extent the infiltration and the nature of what the info we're doing. It's one thing if it's just they have informants passively sitting around its another if the informants provide such pro active support. For plan that it wouldn't have happened had it not been for the feds involvement and it looks like that's the case in Michigan and that's become a key part the defence strategy. I think, similarly, the defence counsel and the one six cases they need to get up to speed. They need to wake up. They need to take some tears from the Michigan,

case, and they need to make the infiltration this federal involvement in one six, a key part of their defence strategy, I think will help there there. There are the defendants and also will help the american public get the full truth, or at least a fuller truth about exactly what happened on that day. Why do they know when and why? Why do they not wanted to see the tapes? What do you think is on the tapes another great question I dont know I can only speculate. I could imagine that if the tapes it available? You'd see a lot more inches instances of provocative type activity given more so you'll see instances of maybe capital, please officers letting people in the building and so forth, and that would discredit the narrative that people are just dashing fast.

In an going and most people went in when it was already inviting them with open doors and as for the people were bashing down the windows and so forth. They appeared to be cool made and there dressed all in black, and we still don't know these people are- and I suspect them- The government has footage of that type of activity that they don't want the public to have so so. Those are just some possible areas in the in the aftermath we had had the capital police go silent with the police officer that shot, which is bizarre. As you know, the name of the police officer within five minutes of a discharge of a gun in almost ok, guys and then you had the the Nancy Pelosi.

Authorize the capital police to get Pentagon, equipment to become an intelligence agency. and listen and track. People in DC tell me about that. Well, it's an interesting development and their capital, please seem to be expanding. Their operations are opening up sharpen base in Florida, their expanding its it's it's strange, ah but they enjoy a certain advantages, for instance, capital, please, as a legislative, its due to their exempt from via, which is an idea it's for a new institution of that sort. It spite guides It's it's very bizarre on its is disturbing that that would happen to any kind of sort of enforcement organ,

zation. The kind of militarization that you see, especially when the militarization now is basically pointed at seventy five, million Americans who happen to object to the direction of the Biden regime and otherwise. So it's. it's just part of this new trend, this new domestic war on Terror aimed aimed at all of Us Trump and involvement. Any involvement but that any involvement from Donald Trump. in terms of what any of the stuff that happened on January Sixth,. well I mean he gave- gave a speech, but I think that's entirely appropriate as a speech I wish TAT he would lend his voice toward the narrative of potential FBI, involvement, potential, government involvement and, just generally

would say I wish he had taken a kind of more active role in X pressing concern for the people who had been unjustly prosecuted as a result of one six as further kind of the idea that trap the sort of cited oars part of the conspiracy. I think, that's very far fetched and ready. yes, but I will point out that its citizens, It is time that the of the January six Commission in Congress. His name is Benny Thomson now Benny Thompson, in his. Personal private capacity, initiated a lawsuit against Donald Trump against Roger Stone, against the proud boys and against the old keepers. And in this law suit, he presents his own theory of the case

and in this theory of the case, the oath keepers proud boys coordinating with trumps inner circle to plan this riot in advance, which I think is fairly ridiculous, but what's interesting about this is that the oath keepers appear they are. Theirs is every star role in Benny Tom. Since personal lawsuit, presenting his theory of the case and he when sent this? wants you to roads it? You know If I am of it and had like a big, bold letter attention Stuart roads now. Benny Thomson is the chair of the one six commission and he said a word about to approach. He has no interest in two roads. He's is uninterested in store roses communications, as FBI, the government are and and

the commission is demanding the communications record of seemingly anyone who set foot in the capital within a month of one six, everyone except for roads. I just think that an additional detail. That's quite remarkable that the head, the commission did a lawsuit, presenting a theory of the case in which to a role. Roads takes a key role and now, This guy runs the entire January. Six commission is expert. zero interested to death, so so tell you, you said earlier that may be that you know that we had we had a way out who had some suggestions on what can be done. What are those well, There are some historical precedent swore a breed and national security state to heel. I think we're somewhat.

at a distance from being able to achieve this in the same way, but we should focus our efforts towards that end. There is something wrong the church committee, then you may recall that was set up a big kind of congressional commission that basically detailed the excesses and abuses of the intelligence, community, the CIA, the FBI and attempted some degree of success to bring them back under the kind of our little. Why up appropriate democratic control? I think various reasons. It would be difficult to replicate that now, but I think it should be a focus, and I think people are right should understand the corruption and abuses, and basically the current configuration of the national security state as

the predominant bottleneck to any kind of true political victory, can win elections. Gavel Toro victories, but you won't have political victories entail, this. National security bottleneck is somehow addressed and the first step in that I think, is DE legitimizing these institute she's in the eyes of the right, because they still maintain a certain degree of implicit authority. and it's very important that they be exposed for what they are and their corrupt activities be exposed, and I did Ultimately does matter, it doesn't get us everywhere, but it does matter if these institutions are no longer viewed as essentially legitimate by this Many plus million people that Dave effectively declared war upon and from there I think their needs

to be a real political focus. There is such a kind of phantom asthma, Gloria of the new cycle there's a certain kind of adhd the element of how conservatives price as media site. This is a big story and then the next day it's got a Yo Yo, see you all. Where addressed that, we don't like and will be the new story and something else bite I'll. Do some outrage about it's really: important to have persistence and focus on this in particular, and I think we have to a large degree. We have not let this narrative go away and I am very proud My news organization revolver DOT News for sticking to it. We are going to keep sticking to it and This wasn't supposed to happen like this now It wasn't supposed to get out of Pandora's Box,

we're still supposed to be disjointed, lay talking about. Oh, there were Antigua there. He wasn't supposed to get to the stage where now every major conservative populace a person in the country Talking about this narrative, including young, including you and a lot of other very major voices in the in the conservative media space. It wasn't. supposed to develop like this, and so I think, they're very scared. Wednesday, I think the same could be said for the reporting from the daily wire, which I think should be nominated for appeal. It won't be, but should be on what was putting in Virginia with the school district, and I mean it's the same apparatus being used by the same people and if you have a journalist, wouldn't have exposed that the narrative, would be completely different and

its expose. The problem with this one is its very complex s, even though it even though its its not me, we, I so we just need to find out. You know who these guys, really are how dare you know? How did they, how did re up skit hold up into this? Well, That's a very interesting question and there's a broader history and contacts to this, and I am glad I'm glad you mention that that in fact the Government began it's sort of robots, infiltration efforts specifically into right wing Malaysia groups that all kicked off. in earnest in the early nineties. Now I think it's important to mention. In this context. this is not Merrick Garlands first rodeo, in fact,

in the early nineties Darlin was working for the d o J and the Clinton administration and his portfolio was the domestic extremist and portfolio. He was in charge right around with that. First obeying region, operation called pad con. Ok, that in that lead in Oklahoma City, and I part of the reason that the gun men and the regime media other freaking out so much about this kind of revolver news narrative of one six is not just for one and exposes about one six, which is huge enough, but once p see that they're gonna are saying what other events have we been I saw one this. I say this morning about Timothy Mcveigh cause. You remember that family there was a third man that now mean tons of where it is ah

now. This is so huge. It's so dark eyes, into this extensively. I'm not ready report on it fully? There has been a lot of reporting out you're going back to nice, but I think the public is now just starting to get prepared to hear the full truth about these things and its absolute. True, there are so many dark details about opera my city and its a coincidence that merit garland. It was one of the key hatchet men was one of the key janitor and clean up guys for this then and there getting the old all back together now married garland, his head of the Justice Department, Joe does the government is taking off its new and improved and perhaps but even more aggressive domestic war on terror to address the threat posed

He corrupt elements of government by the EU resurgence of a kind of populist element within the american politics, the internet sure changed everything absolutely that's why they need to censor at near absolute as why they need to censor so kind ass. He had just grow Quicken will have you back on me and later date for an update, but also like talked about this you familiar with Alexander Dugan. Yes, I am and its fourth political theory. Yeah yeah? Where do you wear it? What are your thoughts on that? Well, that's that's not something that I really have the expertise sign. As I mentioned, I am political theorists by former profession.

And I wrote my dissertation on a german floss, remarked Heidegger, whose someone that do again has commented on and wrote a book on. I've read his book. Heidegger some of it is interesting. Other parts of it I would critique, do get is kind of an interesting, interesting voice in sort of interpreting this transitional phase that we find ourselves in geopolitically in bites. That's pretty much the same he makes his doll, I might say, in generic term But if you have, this is what specifically about the fourth poetic a theory, are you the way when we have the language that he uses is very appealing, two people who feel like a lot of conservatives do right now

right. You know they there there they ve lost something there being told their country is no good there there are no good, etc, etc. It's corrupt and it's very appealing and is a that is another leg on the table that term I watch interesting because I think that there are other there are other forces out there that would like to keep people in control or to destroy the nation, and- and I think he's one of them by frankly that way, that he's one of the forces who would destroy this nation that is looking to start a whole new order. A whole new why not

this nation, but this nation and the west I mean he is he's pretty clear on that as well. Yes- and I guess what would say: that's not specific to do been, but because do again can kind of be thought of as a sort of poetic. Call philosophical arctic type for a sort of Eurasia Eurasian ISM as a an alternative to America. I think that we really need, and especially with the rise of of China, which is in some ways involved with that. Although the relationship, between Russia and China is a very complicated one, and not necessarily figures to the presentation that Dugan gets, but just to keep it. generic. I would say that

The rise of China is a very important thing it going on right now and it's important not simply is to say: oh, we need to demonize the Chinese and point to all of their abuses. I think the diminution of America's role. Geopolitically Andy dissipation of America's prestige is some thing that should really give us pause and not occasion, ass, necessarily to criticise our rivals, but to use it as a mirror to hold up to ourselves, because it is going to be the case that if we are no longer a serious country which I think we become largely a joke, comes not only a joke but an evil country, and what are we? What are we represent cheerful?

Thirdly, what do our armed forces represent? Real represents disseminating the very woke poison we inflict on our own domestic population and the rest of the world is be justice, tired of it A lot of us are, but, unlike The conservatives who are relatively impotent politically with the United States to challenge the dominant american regime. There are going. To be major competitors with real self sufficiency. That present legitimate alternatives to the Woke prison the United States has become and so I am. I think that in ways multi polarity, geopolitically, is something too, cautiously welcomed, because I view China is certainly not as a free nation, but I

view the United States as a free nation either, and I would rather have competing. Laura Terry and regimes with different taboos and then a one world situation with the same taboos and for all China's faults. You can. There is actually a popular With that, I had Senator Marshall Blackburn tweeted a photo of we need a poor saying, what how free we are in America that I can tweed Winnie the poor, whereas in China is an insult to present. and she said you can't do that look me I'm showing how we have free speech in the United States by treating winning the poor, and I respect winter right now you do George Floyd, You can't do it in China, you can it's it's not that we have free speech here, and they don't in China or vice versa, they're just different taboos, and I think increasingly one thing that

people on the Rhine, especially if their labelled as dissidents by their own government will take advantage of is something that I call taboo arbitrage riches, basically taking advantage of the fact that there are different taboos in different parts of the world and in fact, it's crazy, but it might be the case that in the future- festers, who are five fired for violating the diktat of weakness in the? U S will be hired a chinese universities. And so it's just one of those things. I think again. We want to be in a position where we say America's the best America's the freest obtaining ourselves, if we're there here, and we should look at the rise and the increasing confidence of countries like China. as an occasion to just Sabre rattle and say how bad they are. But two, honestly,

look at ourselves and say: are we really going in the direction where we're going to be capable of controlling the when you first century and are we going to be deserving of controlling drivers century? I think the answer to both both of those cases This point is a resounding no. I agree. I agree. I have five said for a long time if we face up to our past, and we also don't. Don't Stop this been away from you know. Founding principles. We're gonna we're gonna, make the Germans look like rookie, something our technology alone could enslave the entire world it's not us. It's gonna be China and will be in bed with em. I mean the we're doing some really frightening things that I never expected my country to be involved in we.

been involved. You know I've had a problem with Gauche, a ghost planing people you're going to torture least have the the balls to say weird. Do it don't ship off to a third country and then say your hands are clean, but I Think Americans are ready for those tough conversations to say This is what we have done in the past. This is what we're doing right now and stop it. I mean I think Afghanistan was a very good example of this. People. Watch that They they recognize dishonour and that's why they stood up because that's not who we are supposed to be, that what the left says us. We are that's what the rest World says we are, but that's what the average American thinks of when they think of an american soldier. That was dishonourable on so many levels and that was a good sign to me that American saw that and when.

I don't want anything to do with that. Right. Right now is absolutely true end. Much of a disaster, as the entire Afghanistan affair was, I think, those types of resounding global embarrassments, I would hope, could at least have the silver lining of forcing that type of radical critical. Self reflection that are You really needs, but unfortunately it doesn't even seem like Afghanistan. It is is enough. require something even more humiliating before we really say like will out, we need a profound, we need a programme, of course, correction in this country, because a hierarchy of taboos, and the nature of accountability in the United States of America now is that a general way, suffer more severe repercussions if it comes out

twenty years ago to use the word yet and it will if he loses a war for a nation with that kind of priority of accountability is age. Nation that will not predominate in the twenty first century. Well, we we were a joke. In two thousand we had just gotten back. Our financial institutions had just gotten back wagon our finger at them in two thousand six in China, saying you have to up. The american banking standards look at this you're going to collapse and then we collapsed and they laughed at us. The same thing happens with Afghanistan, and what are we doing today? We have our president trying to lead the globe in in climate change. Which is just the the great reset as the next. I think, slave tactic, from the big corporations. So thank you, much for being on the programme and

thanks for having me you bet. Thank you very much appreciate it bet just a reminder. I'd love you to rate and subscribe to the podcast and passes on to a friend, so it can be discovered by other people.