Glenn sits down with Fred Burton, one of the world's foremost authorities on security and terrorism. They talk about the details of 9/11 and Fred's experience working in counterterrorism, the Beirut Marine Barracks bombing, as well as his thoughts on the current direction of the administration.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Yeah, most people look at millennials. They don't you remember nine eleven for most people, bats where we started. People little older, maybe they'll, say world traits her, but it was in Beirut that this really put us on this path. Right. Without a doubt, they re was the centre of gravity. When I was a young special agent working Bessie bombings in the kidnappings and the hijacking All roads of terror just flowed through Beirut, originated Beirut and the principal enemy at that time was the
Iranian backed Hezbollah organization, which is still relevant today gone and the guy who exe who was his name of Iraq, but it was his name. Mad millennia,. Yeah, I think he was there no emerge yeah Ahmad. Who is he money I was pretty much the centre of gravity for the Hezbollah security apparatus, ass. He was liaison with the iranian intelligent, serve he was the master terrorist, most people from our generation can recall Carlos the Jackal yeah, but after Carlos a Jackal there was no bigger terrorists, then he mad magnesia, who had more. The? U S and israeli blood on his hands than any other terrorist before oh some, then log into how do we know? How do we know Carlos Jackal? We know some of in one, but we don't know this guy. Well, it took us
long time to map out who mug NEA was Glenn? I can tell you when I was a young agent working the hostage cases in the terrorist attacks that we had a grainy photograph of this either. We really did not know who he was and waste an intelligent collection effort to try to figure out exactly who he mad magnesia was, and we actually got some intelligent says to his identity and that we started to kind of walk back the cat to try to figure out exactly where he was inside the Hezbollah organization remember when all these attacks are taking place in Beirut during this time period. We had this group called the Islamic Jihad or innovation, and I can remember studying their communiques and we set off for cycle linguistic analysis. We had the FBI and the CIA look at it to try to figure out who was this person crafting these communiques and at all
back to this character by the name of Mug NEA who was responsible for all these terrorist attacks so we were? We prepared at all. I know when you know when all hell broke loose in Beirut, we womb We didn't have anybody who really prepared in the CIA, to deal with this kind of organization right here suddenly correct. Remember the CIA was stood up to combat the KGB right to go behind the iron curtain. So can I ask you if this too much of a movie understanding, but it seems to me That, while they were ruthless and everything else, there was rules where in the Middle EAST. There doesn't seem to be any rules. Is that true that movie. Now that's real true! There you
to be rules and the intelligence service, even doing battle with the KGB The gentleman don't read other gentleman's mail, you dont kidnap other intelligence officers, you don't assassinate other intelligence officers. There was just understanding, then Hezbollah comes along a mad. Macneil comes along with Beirut rules, which was the title of the book and that all the gloves Rauf in that time period they went after the see, I they went after the United States embassy in nineteen. Eighty three in the first bombing took out the eyes and ears of intelligence for the United States government. When the CIA had me there and it was car bomb by Hezbollah, and that was really the first volley of attack that decimated. U S until Jensen that time period to ring was so focused on the Soviet Union. When this started to happen,
did he understand it did do. Was this a secondary, because this will lead to the main character in your book, whose a real american hero and at sea on the way that was treated when he was kidnapped and taken so I'm trying to get an understanding today, see the Middle EAST then, and these new kinds of terrorist as something big and important in the future, or was this just some gnats that we have to deal with here, we're dealing with the real problem of the Soviet Union. I think they dealt with the route in the Middle EAST and this time period, and they re good administration as almost a tactical problem, meaning it wasn't a strategic kind. An issue like the Soviet Union was during that time period was star wars. Since the fall of the wall, meaning are our aren't you and he was the Soviet Union and
all came, this asymmetrical kind of group that was to bring the United States to his needs in many ways and take the fight to us, and we were not prepared for that during that time period and our intelligence Glenn during during that window was very poor. We didn't see the truck bombs coming. We didn't see the kidnapping of the Americans coming and yet they kept continuing and then the sea. I had to do a huge course correction to try to deal with the problem And again, all roads lead to Beirut. When we had the bombing of the Marine Barracks red several times that if Reagan would have responded with overwhelming force. The future might have been greatly different. Do you believe that I do I think what the benefit of hindsight and living through the semi we were so caught up in the phrase during that time period. It's hard to look at
over the horizon to try to see what's coming, but I do think we were not prepared. I think that, basically we followed our tent and went home after that. We try to Ebay Route and Hezbollah, one wanting and literally drove us out of Lebanon in many ways? So I think, with the benefit of hindsight, that if we had tried a little different straight she then perhaps we would have been more successful. Okay. So now, let's get into the book for some kind of basic frame framework. But your book is a spy novel except it's true. It sits in Fleming except it's and you introduce us to a hero that I remember hearing about, but not really hearing about, William Buckley put it in the time what was happening and and and to begin with. Who he was who
as William Buckley go. Buckley was an american patriot at age Thirteen is listening to the japanese bomb Pearl Harbor on his rage, at home outside of Boston Massachusetts, his sister tells me that he always wanted to be a soldier. He played with little toy soldiers when he was a kid Shortly after his graduation from high school in nineteen, forty seven, he goes off to the korean war. Where he's awarded the servers star for Russia chinese machine gun nest at age. Eighteen with the First Cavalry division she's he was different. He was man that, as you will see in the story, is always running towards danger. So after the korean WAR, he goes back to the boss, an area and literally becomes a librarian which is so different. He was just that kind of person. He was a very well read man and he at ten school at Boston University, and he takes multiple languages
after university at Boston University. He joined the CIA which, at that time is just starting up in the mid nineteen fifty's. And he's egos often starts doing a little bit of work for the CIA, and then Vietnam is heating up, and he goes off to visit as one of Kennedys First Green Brays unease and a special forces assigned to the Phoenix ram which on which is what the Phoenix Programme is, what the Phoenix Pro and was winning the hearts and minds. A lot of miss information has been written about it and it's it's pretty much from a historical perspective, viewed by many as a ass, a nation and arduous day. It's it's a destination club it it was. It was part of that. You asked it was also an effort to try to win the hearts and minds and to try to join the enemy forces together and try to combat again these
Soviet Empire in that realm, the on and I've got. These fabulous little picture see the old fashioned Instagram pictures of Bill, Buckley the story where he sending messages home and he's writing down the Mekong Delta with fifty caliber some machine gun and he's talking about what is happening in the field and what was fastening to me, glenn- and I know you ve done a lot stories to every picture of bill in the field in Vietnam. He's with an australian special forces. Guy used your radio man and that started me thinking. I had no idea that the Austrians were so active with clean rays and with the CIA in Vietnam, so that in itself is worth worth. Their whole story, but Vietnam bill goes back, through the CIA and literally bounces all around the world and all the hot spots, because what does he do? is a CIA operative he's what is called his
Paramilitary kind of person in The CIA there's a different class structure. To put put it bluntly: you have the Yale is which build wasn't all oh, he was from New England. You know this was a hard scrabble guy. This was a guy that they cut his teeth on the front lines in Korea. And yet he was extraordinarily intelligent. Absolutely well read man, student of languages, student of history, a student of war, and he becomes paramilitary expert worried travels around the world, teaching for Intelligence and security services how to conduct hostage rescues, how to put together intelligence related activities, so that was bills expertise so in nineteen, eighty three after the embassy is low literally in a car bomb at a meeting where all the CIA personnel are gathering bill
raises his hand and volunteers to go to Beirut when nobody else wanted to go, but that does Surprise me because that's the kind of man he was. He. Was he the logical choice or was he the choice for it? This way. It seems as though he was sent in kind of a really dangerous, crazy mission and you're like who do you want to do this and it's definitely not a suit. You need somebody who is really intelligent, but you don't want to suit right, you need a hard scrabble guy. You need somebody there's been front lines. You need somebody that understands the enemy. I think the CIA got it after the eighty three bombing in that look, we're not prepare for what's coming. We have enough suits, walk in the halls at Langley. We need,
and that's a farmer, green re. Somebody has been on the Tipp of the spear that understands guerrilla warfare and lesson that person to Beirut, but, more importantly, Glenn. The only one, the volunteers to go, you can imagine during that time period and to me again. That doesn't surprise me because that's the kind of Guy Bill Buckley was so you just put us back in that time. Eighteen, seventy nine. We have the hostage crisis in IRAN and Iraq right may take they take our embassy, indeed and we really we were pre shocked by that, where we we were, I one of our agents was held captive for a better part of a year right. So we just Through that, then there was the the Marine Barracks bombing erect. And then the CIA, but at three bombing, then we have the Marine Barracks bombing than we have a second embassy bombing that takes place, ok
sequencing, and where is he coming in he's coming in after the first embassy bombing stand to stand up the CIA eyes and ears in Beirut, but before the Marine Barracks bombing in Beirut. Who was respond? well for the embassy bombing in that Mumia ok same aspect right so Does he know him at this point is our starting to ok now, but he doesn't know who magnesia is, but he knows that we have. This group called Islamic too hard that is suspected of being iranian, backed might have this murky linked to Hezbollah, but they really no the actors on the principal tactical operators inside the organisation, so he come over and how what what is it? What does he do with this primary mission during that time period? Remember we don't really have an embassy the Brits give us some space bills has to rebuild,
the intelligence network that was lost after the eighty three bombing when all the sea a personnel are wiped out, so he asked to re Institute. Intelligence collection, basic surveillance operation? He asked to try to map the enemies that are against us. He tries to put the pieces of the puzzle together about what happened in the eighty three blast. So part of his mission was figure out what happened, try to four ass what's coming next and lo and behold were hit again, the Marine Barracks bombing well on bills, watch. So it's just now but terrorism and chaos and mayhem and bills at the centre of gravity trying to figure this all out and then I'm afraid his abducted one morning on his right to work fruitful Do you do when you when you have no assets.
How did he even begin? What did he do? You live the pseudo your passes cattle is gonna like any operation where you have to go back in I've had meetings with your french counterparts are british counterparts: you're Levin, liaison services, but remember this is like a Humphrey Bogart so Blanca kind of atmosphere where every bodies on the payroll of different people, you have spies everywhere you have the israeli Mozart operating there. You got the French, the Germans, the Brits and so bills. Job is to establish again a CIA presence, rebuild a CIA liaison network. So there's a lot of meetings, there's a lot of how we going to figure out what happened. What's next threat coming towards us
and this is all before the days of computers and cell phones right so eaten a week before he's kidnap. He tells a friend I'm in trouble and he explains that he's going to be kidnapped, and what is biggest fear is. It really was while he was in Vietnam as a green break. One of his best friends was kidnapped and thrown into prison, and his greatest fear of being an intelligence officer was that he himself was going to be kidnapped and held hostage and that's the worst fear that he had and it's so ironic and tragedy. That's exactly what happened to the poor guy he's guy. He told his friend, I'm gonna be kidnap. I don't please. Even if you take up my body, please come-
we, even if you kill me why you're doing I dont want to die forgotten and a horrible death. Yes, and he did it at. This was a time period and remember. I was assigned as part of a small group at the CIA, that's working to try to find all the hostages, but our primary focal point was locate bill, Buckley and so every day we want to work trying to find the hostages but Glenn. We just did not have the intelligence to know exactly where they were on. Given day, I'm sad to say add very minimal signals, intelligence, very minimal kind of intercept, kind of capabilities, We had no sources on the ground to be able to tell us where the hostages were and when we did get information and was usually late and in the course of debriefing all the hostages, they told us about bill and we learn for the first time that the bill was actually
being held with all the other american hostages, but he was special. There was guy. That was always behind another door, and we know his name was bill, so we knew There was still a hostage, but nobody had really seen em. To one night when he died in captivity, which I ll never forget. Father Martin Genco, who was a catholic priests who have been kidnapped by the same organization, was the first hostage to come out to actually tell us that bill had died and that he was delusional and The other hostages were saying: please get this man, some medical care and they wouldn't listen, and we did want to believe Father Genco and then David Jacobs. Jake David Jacobson came out the hospital administrator from Beirut and he said bills dead and Youtube. Suck the era of the room and in these by Germany during a deep ardor briefing Glenn, because we didn't want to hear it, we didn't want to believe it and David Jacobson said,
I'll, tell you exactly how he died. He said he said. That's bills head hitting steps being dragged down from this site. Suburbs apartment and he goes guys bills dead, and it was just horrible for us to hear at that time period. So we made a full bore, F at the time period, to find the man who did this define bills body at whatever cost it might be, and to bring them home with us. You personally get reading yearbook. That's not exist play. What happened to be a low level staffer was put in charge of the investigation was any. I would like to think that that's probably an accurate depiction of the attack
and paid to the problem at a Washington level. Ok but behind the scenes Glenn, we want to work every day. Looking for the hostages, sure, though there were agents, there was primarily one FBI agent on CIA analysed in me, supported by the intelligence community it it was a price to the counter terrorism group, but there wasn't like this huge operations behind the scenes to try to find the Americans being held captive and that's what the big show so we see today and our counterterrorism effort. Something like this would never happen again and if it did happen but have thousands of people devoted to this problem and stones instead of just a handful of us, working on the issue, so they found him
Tell me about the guys who did it to him? Well, when he was abducted, he was coming out of his apartment. He lives by himself off embassy property because he needed that flexible? in order to do his job. He needed there we need to go out its sources and to have meetings like with the israeli Mossad and so forth, so in in Beirut. A time period. There were no secrets, unfortunately, There are the eyes and ears of everybody were watching the Americans and, of course, Hezbollah, The organization that ultimately grabbed him had all the sources that we did not have They knew or all the Americans were lived so bill pulling out of his driveway one morning and his Peugeot, which you didn't like wasn That's enough for him. Nobody'll exposures, a Jaguar that was coming out that had not made it there, but
overwhelmed on on the right to work in the morning dragged out of the car, and put into another vehicle where he was taken, to the sums of the southern suburbs, obey Beirut. He would vanish into an area that we had actually no eyes or ears in an unfortunately, that that's that's how bill died, billions of dying in captivity after being tortured brutally interviewed by Hezbollah. We suspect Emma Magnesia himself who, at that time in charge of special operations for Hezbollah. We the Iranian interviewed him. And it would not be surprising to learn that the KGB did as well so now, what did he have to tell somebody told me whose gone through torture? He said everybody breaks.
Surely you sure you know the people who say I'm never gonna break. He said that the first two breaks they don't take it seriously. He said Eventually, everybody breaks. What did he? What did they get out of him remember Thus this man knows every intelligent source in Beirut at the time of his abduction. He knows who the israeli Mossad officers are. He knows who the french secret service personnel. Are, he know to the six folks are, so he has a walking catalogue of all intelligence related activity in Beirut to include all double agents we might have working like if we have flip the source Then the lebanese security services have we flipped a soviet KGB agent during that time period. So after bill is abducted Glenn. Everything is shut down literally so, if you think about it from an intelligence perspective, had, the eighty three bombing right,
the eyes and ears of America are blown up literally shut down. You have the eighty four bombing of the marine barracks. You have bill, Buckley kidnapped who knows all the intelligence operations that he had started Since he sent in the Beirut, so it the essence. Our entire operation is shut down. So then the next bombing is where the next bond again. The United States embassy in Beirut, where, the? U S embassy sit hard again by mad magnesian Hezbollah. We also bombing of the? U S: embassy in Kuwait during this time, period by Hezbollah and we also have the hijacking of Tita view a flight, eight, forty, seven by Hezbollah and the death of the young. U S: Navy Diver Robert Stem, where Hezbollah put Well, in the back of his head and Thompson, The tarmac in Beirut.
How come my memory doesn't connect all of this to IRAN I dont mean I grew up. I wasn't glued television, further news at that time. I was you my memory does not tie all of this to directly to around. That's not been allowed reddened written on the Hezbollah Iranian Nexus, meaning you have IRAN using this proxy Hezbollah as a tool of foreign policy to be able to carry out this asymmetrical warfare against the United, dates now bear in mind to build Buckley when he's a hostage he's held with many french sausages, german, even russian. A korean an irish hostage. One point time we had over twenty hostages being held by Hezbollah they'd they brought
Western Europe in the United States to his knees with their hostage kind of policy, all choreographed by IRAN and Hezbollah. When we first set out to find him, how long, but how long has he gone before we find out for sure he's dead He's gone for about a year before we figure out that he's dead. How long do you think he was alive? I think he was alive for a good six to seven months before he died. Why do you to Moscow interviewed him we had enough intelligence in putting together the story from some far you'll see many reductions in our that the sea I cut out right. We, on a done in their full transparency sake, so folks would know what was removed from the government. We have enough intelligence to indicate piecing together, the actions and so forth that this was a very
a valuable asset to IRAN that you could barter you could trade and that's what the intelligence communities are. It's like an arrow bizarre our trading intelligence and trading information around and Lowell, or what we found in the F B. I rejected files was that the FBI for all comparing of time suspected the bill may have even been flown to Tehran in May even been held inside the iranian embassy in Beirut for a period of time. Where Osama Bin Laden coming story well, modern, remember, he's, learning and he's learning the tools of groups that come before him and he's looking at the effectiveness of a group like Hezbollah who manages to blow up the: U S embassy, twice the in Beirut, the US embassy in Kuwait, the israeli Embassy in Ba Argentina, the israeli
day care Center and Ba Argentina, the hijacking Twa. Eight, forty, seven the list goes on and on and on so Bosnia and in IRAN gave Bin Laden a blueprint that you, look for and then all of a sudden you could see. How can you attacked the United States by using this a symmetrical kind of warfare, which is exactly what we are still dealing with today? In did Obama ever get together and the meat Nano Burma a bit? Sorry for that did they get together, ended they meet We have no evidence of that. Do you believe that there was, I dont suspect there was when he was taken hostage. This was the was part of the ran Contra exchange was he
one of the guys that Reagan was trying to get out. Yes awfully first and form you have to look behind the scenes here. You have a small group working people like myself, trying to deep the hostages in trying to find them. Then you IRAN country you have this compartment operation off to the side, with Admiral Point DEC sure and Colonel Oliver North? That's doing the trading of toe missiles to IRAN to get these hostages released and I'm not sure knife in the drawer at times glenn- and I remember going over on the North Atlantic after about my third trip across and I'm thinking to myself on a cold air force flight. How come or deploying beforehand released. How come I don't know about. What's going on and we finally get to these Barton, A small group of us start talking amongst ourselves and we're saying it's gotta be something
what's goin on here, because we're always deployed before the hostage comes out and then, when the first hostage comes out, which is Father Genco we were expecting, though Buckley we were expecting the hostage. So you have Father Genco, don't get me wrong, we were glad to him out, but that wasn't part of the deal we later understood. The deal was that they were suppose, get Buckley out in number to Buckley, had died. You see the Iranian said, pulled the wool over our eyes and and Buckley had died in captivity, but we were expecting him to be released. And we were going to debrief him first and then Jacob comes out, and then the second this comes out and we knew at that point time there was a lost cause and that we had to move
than to a body recovery mode ache. I can't imagine what you ve seen and I can't imagine I can't imagine in body recovery mode and what that's like for a friend somebody you admire in a place where its complete we foreign and looking for the body is dangerous. For you write it really was. It became a mission of the United States government to try to find him at that point time to bring them home for a proper burial. Now remember as palace, The sounds Glenn Hezbollah knew that body was still worth something to the United States government that that was a leverage point and so we became very Russia in that time period with reward offers. We
please and create a little match box with pictures, and we we had wanted Mr Savary said, look we'll pay the two million dollars. If somebody can tell us, where the bodies are where The people are the took him, so we could try to Europe. Some counterterrorism teams to try to go in and did you get anyone any takers while we eventually recovered the body Udall using the intelligence community that had some sources that identified where the basic bodies were located and we able to send a very brave. If the State Department, diplomatic security service team
from the U S embassy, they went out to help us recover the bodies and and and bring bill Buckley how shoe after bill dies. We have the go for correct right. We have Hezbollah Moran crossing over into Iraq,. Tell me the significance here well, remember: there are no friendly intelligence services. That's person. You learn in my business Nation states always act in the best interests of their own work, and so when you're, looking at the iranian intelligence services is an organisation that is very capable of very well funded with a our sources, that we don't have access to same as the iraqi. During that time period. The mud still he marches into Iraq. Does
he does. Macneil maintains a very elegant it presents inside of of Hezbollah. He's, travelling and multiple passports the modern day Carlos, the Jackal he's he's parts by part, master terrorist he's an intelligence officer. They become critical for IRAN to be used as a tool against us and he he goes He's because all over the world, He has a meeting in Sudan He has a meeting in Sudan has meetings and Syria and he actually was map to Damascus, Syria in two thousand and eight. Where a counter terrorism effort at that point was put into place. Predominantly with the United States and in Israel to take him out so there is a degree of vengeance. There is a degree of justice, two thousand eight when it took the two thousand and eight now remember
This is a very slippery individual, that has various diplomatic passports, mostly iranian, indifferent names when manufacture identity documents like any nation state. You can be anybody. You want it took a long while to be able to find him. But once he was found. I do applaud the nice, its government for going after him, so there would be a little bit of justice a little bit vengeance for the? U S and israeli blood on his hands. So well here their Bin Laden is in Paris while he in Sudan been loudness in Paris right to my understanding, ok than I am the margins in Khartoum, Khartoum, our term Sudan, and money I can travel in and out of areas like Paris, so ok area shoe was
the Sudan bombing and try to remember which bombing it was that the first one kind of shook my understand, the first on the kind of shook the terrorist world. If you will work, as the embassy bombing in Beirut and then the barracks and they were like while we can make these guys move right, then wasn't there another hotel or Missy Bombing, maybe in the Sudan and your second of the east african embassy bombings in Roby yes, where that was an Al Qaeda operation. I was Bin Laden's, which he kind of learn. Did he not correct? from the master terrorist e mad magnesia during that time period. That's correct! Ok, so we don't ever hear help his teacher. You never hear of a beverage name before never his name, and we hear about
oh, some, a Bin laden- and I remember I was in in nineteen ninety nine. I was on the air and I just like to take people at their word. You know to making. When you take people out there were heard, especially when they're telling you know they tell you something nice with brush off. They tell you there kill you you should take them at their word. You should believe that you should be and I was on the year when conservative radio station WMD Signor, and I said, I think, was the aspirin factory bombing and I said: look this they're trying to get after this guy and I said I don't know anything about embody, sir. Do my homework on this guy he's he's coming he is coming and there we blood bodies and buildings in the streets of New York City in the next ten years- and I have this man's name on it-
I'm just getting such tremendous push back from people, it didn't wanna, hear it. What's life like been like free, due to know all of this stuff to be there and too see, I don't dont know- I imagine it's- you, don't feel it may be in the CIA, but maybe up above and in the society that nobody to hear about it. Nobody wants to see it. Nobody wants to believe it is frustrating. Its extraordinarily frustrating remember in the ninety ninety three first World Trade Center attack, which was a huge wake up, call for us, and I was on my watch. I've gotten much more credit than I deserve for the capture. Ramsay Yourself, the Matthew mind of the first World Trade center bombing. He was Bin Laden's number, one bomb maker. He had tried to kill the Pope and the Philippines
When we grabbed him in Pakistan, he was planning to kill United States Ambassador Pakistan. He had the boat Genco plot. We had the landmark plot New York City during that time period. When you were there were the group had looked at blowing up the Brooklyn bridge. Try- to assassinate President Mubarak at the water for hotel the goes on and on and on If you, why did back just one step earlier Glenn, you may remember That's for me in your New York days at one of Bin Laden's fuelled operatives shooter by the name of outside no nosair, assassinate, rabbit Martha honey of the radio, so that was really the first jihad. The streets of America during that time period, then you have the ninety free World Trade Center attack, and then you have, Al Qaeda trying to kill, present, move Eric and Addis Ababa Ababa Ethiopia. So then you have that kind of lead up. I mean we saw it coming
those of us than but were people listening now, Nobody listens and remember during that time period you had a very decide general counterterrorism system in place where you had the FBI and the CIA and the State Department. Nobody was cooperating, he didn't you didn't have the degree, of course, duration that you do now in our path. Nine eleven world where you have so many joint Terrorism task forces in the world is different today, but look governments are reactive, they're, not proactive, it's not like private business or any other entity, and it too tragedy. I am sad to say, to force change, meaning it took bill, but please abduction in Beirut. In order for the CIA to protect other, say, station chiefs and the same thing doesn't happen to them again and what happens in government bureaucracies. Nobody wants to hear.
About. What's on the horizon, we'll just react to the problem. Once it happens now we ve got no want better since nine eleven You know my hat off to the FBI. You know since now eleven. I've done a great job here, domestically people I dont think have any idea. How- and this is just my guess- I don't have any idea but I don't think that we have any idea how much we have been saved from for good. You know detective work and intelligence work. I mean, I think the country has been these guys. Thomas Jefferson talked about me, you know. Is Islam Assist that you're not going away you're not going away. We may have pushed them back now, but they're coming back and they're going to come back over and over and over again because they believe all this stuff and we just keep Seemingly pushing them backs the now ISIS. Now it's over now we're paying attention to what's happening. There still is,
they'll happening still going on they're not gonna, give up now they're. Not this. Is generational Glenn? I am sad to say that our kids will be dealing with this problem. I've been in this business, nineteen eighty one and you can see the carnage and the destruction and you look around the world and that's not to mention the hundred, of other attacks, and we could talk about and that have happened elsewhere from the hijacking so the assassination of the killings of Americans. This. This is something that going to go on forever. This is not a problem that you can eradicate there's only so many of these terrorist. You can hunt down and kill and let's face it, our special operations teams are doing a great job at that, but NASA how do you to feed and ideology? You'd UK
Where Ryan September alone, I was in, Austin Texas? I left a service by then, and I visit we recall, call the plane sitting the trade towers and I harking back to the ninety three first world trade. And are bombing, and I said this isn't surprising in the least and to me that the shocking part is the folks. I say I never saw this coming. You could see it coming not enough intelligence to indicate that it was right around the corner, Emma Burma, Self educated, but pretty much boob most time, especially back and ninety. Ninety nine I didn't know what I was talking about. I I couldn't public with very little. Internet access could figure out Osama Bin Laden.
And see this was coming, not to be shocked. Shock that maybe they flew into a building but not shock that they were trying to below those buildings upper kill, Mass Americans, that's that's what they they want to do, and they still want to do that and they will keep trying laser fixated run radiation. They always have been because it's the perfect terrorist kind of vehicle to try to acts to take to drive into buildings, to try to build what they have historically always done that that goes back to the black September days, the radical palestinian organization and were so good at hijackings. You know: Al Qaeda has learned from the lake
of Hezbollah and he mad money and black September before them, and this is a persistent problem, this just not going to go away. We, how do we win or were or make significant progress without becoming what we despise? I think that you have to do what what boils down to a fairly common sense kind of actions, clan on the part of every body that watches your programs are lessons dear podcast, meaning you have to learn to take areas. To look out for your neighbor to know basics of how to stop. The bleed, which is a wonderful programme, is that's gotta. Lotta legs here in the United States, now learn how to put on a tourniquet. So you can help yourself your family member or your co worker and a mass casually style attack on a mean it that way, I mean it
nation as a culture. When you have ruthless people, but it will have no problem. Shooting children you know you don't take your nine years old as slaves, because God tells them and we'll just torture and and destroy and went when when we bark left Egypt, I was so torn because it's not hard to see what the arab spring leads to a caliphate. That's what they want! That's what they say. So it destabilize is that it was not cheering for Mubarak. To leave by any stretch, but I was so really uncomfortable with a group of people ass saying or we dont torture, but we'll pick you up and it goes
and will take you to the man who will its if I feel like, if we if we want to do that, if we feel that important, we man up and say this is a different world and this is how we have to deal with this and we do it under these conditions, but I am torn because Don't we then become them? Well, the one thing I've learned in this over my course of lifetime in this business Glenn as this is a very dirty business and most people don't want to realise that you- a lot of your viewers and listeners get it, but the reality is that there are so many folks they dont get it, and
at the end of the day were a nation of laws and that we operate under the United States Code and that with we ve had some great strides on the battlefield trying to stop a strategic strike on the United States. I am optimistic that the F b I will keep that watchman kind of status on full bore as long as they're funded properly, and we have. A lot of resources devoted to the problem, but I'm not overly optimistic that this is a problem from a nation that we're going to be able to combat in our lifetime, and I'm not optimistic that this is a problem. This is gonna go away and our kids lifetime George Bush should he spoke to me in the oval- and I said no offense, but
you're hated by so many people, and he said I know he said I knew it was gonna happen before I did. What I felt was right, he said, but I think I think, and forty or fifty years When our children are our grandchildren are possibly seeing the end of this, they will look back and said they understood it and they stood and did what they had to do at this time. So were speaking to him. Thinking before you went to Afghanistan, you were thinking this is fifty years of trying to change this. How how can you possibly change this I was, I speak somebody who I am, I am hawk,
I am also becoming more and more Washington, not our business, because no matter how hard we try in the Middle EAST, they don't care, they hate us, they will hate us and it's not because their jealous of us or any of that crap there being spoon, FED and ideology that I believe is evil and says conquer the world and be head any infidel, you're not going to change that and there lot of good people on the ground in the Middle EAST that are completely alone that you know I'm not. I'm not speak out against that cause. You know I'll. Just keep my mouth shut. I want to live. We come in this and ass. We bad stuff. You know
Much better than everybody else, but still we we're country we screw up. We make deals with people, it happens. I dont want to pull out because it just creates a giant vat, but I don't see anything but another. Fifty years going back after her another fifty years of making the same kind of mistakes in a word that you really can't win setting. That makes sense to you this certainly does. I understand, I think, that's what we're fighting is on unwinnable war, that we're back to just tat considerations to try to take out the next email, magnesia or Osama Bin Laden to prevent a weapon of mass system. From being detonated on: U S, soil, that's what we're down too, as a nation state to you think that we're
Never anymore never ending or plan for the future is not bright. When you look at this problem, if you try to forecast, sound the last thirty thirty five years of the problem. Do you see it getting better in a place like Afghanistan? or Pakistan? No one, a jack. In fact, based, I see a couple of things: I remember a time where I remember my parents and my grandparents seen something and it changed in IRAN. They used to say they have american passport. Nobody's going to hurt and American K, because we carried the stick and nobody would screw with us now. The american passport makes you an absolute target so that's changed dramatically.
And we are still dealing with foes like China,. And I don't know where you stand on China and Russia, but with with what Russia is, it least kicking up. I dont know if their seriously prepared now, but what their kicking up with the chaos that their planting all over the world and China with what their building with their what is called their sharp eyes program. That me know. Right is imprisoning everybody I especially the winners right and then the Middle EAST. How does a free nation remain free here? While I thank you, we can
lose sight of the eye on the ball that we have to recognise that, from a strategic perspective that Russia and China are or at the great game, that this is only a great powers kind of exercise very similar to- We combat it back in the forties in the fifties, and but we are in many ways a very interesting time period. Where you see, perhaps cooperation between the Russians and the Chinese, and even the Cubans like, for example, these sonic attack, Send our diplomats in places like Beijing in Havana happening in Beijing. To yes explained with those are four p Yes, those are far for the past three years or so we ve had a,
the number of american diplomats United States, an Canadian. By the way, I have not seen any reports on Brits. It may have happened, but it's just not reporting where they ve been injured, with the high frequency kind of sonic wave attack of their families, which appears to be directed towards their there primary residences off compound, which are not of the same kind of security level is frightening, as you can imagine for anybody in the romantic core, and these have been occurring in Beijing, Havana and in Moscow, And so you have this kind of great power potential alliance that this kind of great power, as you say, playing big route rules. Yes, it's not! The game of gentlemen anymore you're targeting families- yes you're here. Getting families and loved ones and significant others and spouses that IRAN assigned
And on on in a diplomatic missions and within the foreign Service, you have. A new rule is being cut out there I mean look at the Saudis. Just did with the. Assassination of cash oghee inside there for diplomatic mission in a I have never in the course of diplomatic history, and I study a lot attacks on on diplomats around the world of all ilk. I've never heard of something like that occurring. Where are you ve had an individual go into a foreign mission and pretty much be murdered, dismembered on that property, which is is just surely, is just frightening from that who, with her that we like, for instance, there has to be This is where somebody walked into an embassy and they were disappeared. Primal later they shown up someplace brightest locations right, but this is bold Missis. Boy. This is over the top I've. Never I've never heard of that. I've never investigated that kind of attack, and I've looked at a lot
attacks on diplomats going back to the sixties. This is something we never seen before. This is a an extra territorial killing visual on foreign soil on diplomatic property, So let read you there. This new Sally Prince, think the case, a monster in some ways. But if you want to look at his reality, he's in a mob family that the whole thing is mob, you know Mohammed was a warrior. Jesus was a peacemaker I don't see any statues of good men in the islamic world that aren't on a whore. With a sword. That's how you keep the peace over there, please traditionally speaking, am I right or wrong? You're? Ok! So here he is
mobster in a mob family in a place, kill or be killed with a lot of money with a lot of money and a lot of enemies and he's just pissed off half of his hand, with each taking their stuff ease, and trying to modernize and and bring my mind Understanding is that he has arrested anywhere from fifteen hundred to three thousand. What he would deem radical clerics? he's making enemies everywhere. I don't want to do the business with him. I dont like that. Think this is shocking and horrifying, however, This kind of where I go back to George Washington, I don't any part of any of that, but what what? What else is happen there. You know, I mean you're, not gonna, put her sweetheart of a guy last. It will last
dead within a week. If that long, so How do we judge our relationships anymore, like Should we do in Saudi Arabia? This? Isn't it store narrowly difficult challenge, because we do. I can tell you from behind the scenes. We depend upon the Saudis for intelligence. There are no friendly intelligence services, so you have to go to bed with some of these ruthless kind of people at times to get intelligence and information to safeguard Americans around the world. I am sad to say so. You had to step back on one of these kinds of incidents and try to let the diplomat negotiate some sort of appeasement, so everybody's happy from what just took place, but the reality of what. Took place is something right out of like the Gambino family, where there you know their picking up people and disappearing them and You don't have any visibility or transparency into how many others have happened. We just know about this one, but we're talking
saudi arabian everybody's making a big deal out of Saudi Arabia and it is a big deal did it in an embassy gay, however, and soil. On foreign soil. However, the weak two million are in these concentration camps, right, where there being tortured Brainwashed, tortured to death. Just did appeared in the middle and two million. No he's talking about that now now I thank you. Look at it from this in point of nation states, a nation state to great power Glenn that if you look at some These great power arrangements. From from a historical perspective, there is always going to be tragedy, a very personal level, at a localised kind of level.
That in many ways as a nation, although we try not to turn a blind eye towards it, we still allow it to because our options are very limited, is what can we do about the chinese holding two May and Weir's. What can we do? Our options are very limited. Couldn't we as a nation, I think one of the things that help collapse of the Soviet Union, one of the things they were many. Things, but one of them was Reagan willing to call it out by name it's an evil empire and it's against what we stand for- and you know If you want to rise up in your own country, there is freedom on the other side of that curtain, you know to mean we try to do that in IRAN right look when we ve trail ever, I think
if we would have supported them when they rose up a few years of administering the Obama administration, things may have been different, much different. Yes, I think that could have actually taken off, but we did nothing right. Nothing. We didn't even support than we didn't even come out as president or as a country and say good for you right Instead, we end up flying how many billions of dollars, which ends up in the hands of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard corps that help finance groups like Hezbollah, which take our American Sea ICE station chief hostage right and beyond that. If I'm not mistaken, this is enough, as part of your book, which is phenomenal, we're paying them all this money? treating them like, oh no you're gonna be fine and then-
they launch a missile named after the after the terrorist right yeah among a profit, they launch a missile named after the guy that took our station chief and we don't notice that we course we do right. We do again, when you're dealing with IRAN, our options are very limited because they have the ability Glenn to unleash an asymmetrical, very well, funded and organise group that have historically.
Done nothing but level our embassies, killer, hostages, target Israelis, kill Jews, kill american diplomats all around the globe, but does it help us or hurt us to be absolutely crystal clear on what we stand for, and I don't mean just talk- I mean doing it, This is what we stand for. This is what we support and our friends in the Middle EAST, the one we know we can count on right now. The only one that shares any kind of our values is Israel, correct and act. The way Donald back by moving the embassy in saying this is our friend is it hurt us or help us to be clear on who are friends. Are I dont even know of great Britain? Is our friend anymore?
I don't know where we stand. I don't know where they stand any more from an intelligence perspective, the five eyes nations, yes, are still doing their job and regardless of the political rhetoric coming out of Washington or London or or can bear on any given day, you still have the agents and analyse working together working together. Thank you, is goodness is great Britain. I can't even believe I'm gonna ask you this question because it seems so insane is England over and here's. Why ask. Women when Asia Bibi a Catholic won't, renounce her faith. Spent nine years in prison in Pakistan. The Supreme Court of Pakistan has the courage to stand up and say This was an abomination. This was that this was absolutely to put her in prison with the clear
in the room staring them down, then she says to England. I need to get out. I need a sound, Helium in your nation me and my family or they're gonna, kill us and there's uprisings in the street England says no in it a roundabout way because we're afraid of our own population here. How do you survive? Well, I think that the metropolitan police since I shall branch and my five and am I six. I've got a very difficult job because, on any given day in the UK. They could have jihadi running people over on bridges that they are overwhelmed with domestic terrorism problems in the United Kingdom, and I I think that is a problem that has just grown out of control. They allowed so many jihadis into their country.
You have the borderless flow of other jihadi in and out of the United Kingdom that the reach the cross nation, the third country kind of operations that can be launched that it's a daunting task and I think that on any given day in the UK, we could see exactly what we have been seeing now at a very slow tempo of attacks. So you have that. Then you have thing like breaks it and it's not my country, I don't want to get involved in it. I can just look at what I think I'm hearing from many Europeans. And they don't have an american system of small government K. They don't understand that they have communism and fascism and everything in between, but they do. We have limited small government freedom of the individual kind of mentality. Like America does
you you get into the EU is not working out. Well, it's not doing what its promised the people are being told not to be belgian, not We swedish not to be german, not to be italian, not to be english and the governments are also mandating that you take this gigantic influx of people that the average person says. Wait this it's not good. We don't know who these people are now look at, crime rate, look at our daughters being raped and unbelievable rate stabbings stabbings all of these things that are going on and the average person sitting at their table here. All these people are fine, theirs, thing wrong, oh and by the way, if you hang your swedish flag, you're a racist they common sense tells them. This is wrong. This is just wrong. They're, not racist
I mean I'm sure there are some but they're, not racist. There, are not seen their nodded, and I use Lompoc. I know there are those groups out there that are part of it, but there's a big group that just wants to be English, just wanna be french and they love people to come to their country. This wants you to be french. Like us, we just should it be an american and because the government and the EU denies that there is any problem and because the press says you didn't see that nothing, sir, there's no stabbing problem. What great problem there is no real problem. I know what you're talking about. The only one that says the truth. It's like nineteen, thirty million who come up and say anything, that's true: are these monsters nationalist extremist Nazis who say you know what I'm proud of my country too,
and they are not doing anything until government, and I don't even see us. I think us playing with it we're getting closer than we were, but until Government actually has the balls to stand up and say look. This is the problem. This ideology is a problem board, This country's don't work. We want people to I mean, but we want to know who you are and where you're staying. Why you're? Coming here What what abilities are reasonable work as reasonable, reasonable until somebody starts talking reason in the press and in power. Your adding to all of the other problems, chaos, you your ear. Your feeding, the governments are feeding this. This
connect from their own government. They don't trust him anymore. How do you think the military called it the Bubba effect? You know it now: I'm not familiar will gather effect, I was with some special forces guys out here. This is yours ago with a bush was in office, forty one or forty three, forty three and I said as this one. Most worried about, and they say what, on the horizon, the big thing worried about is the bubble effect. My son was above bubble effect. They said that because so many people are in countries are living in denial. The people aren't stupid and at some point
you know. Mohammed will go and blow up something and bother whose at the cash register it sent local seven eleven will cease come in and see the turban and just not know, and just think always part of the problem, and you people annual shoot him. Everyone will know Bob was wrong Bob I should go to jail, but when the any role in the town, the town well, then turn and say we'll take care of Bubba. It's you, That have caused Bubba to do these kinds of things. I say you don't mean I do very much That seems more and more realistic, everyday does but not well. I think when you look at that kind of scenario, you could certainly see how that could unfold, especially in our nation today worth it. You have such a polarize nation and I'm surprised on basics from
counter terrorism perspective that we still can keep an eye on? I on the ball, based on all the problems that are going on inside of Washington, but, but I do know Glenn that- and I talk to these agents every day in different capacities, that the end of the day he still have very hard working men and women no doubt doing their job? No, those are the cops assigned to the joint terrorism task forces. You have law enforcement in public safety, doing their job noto, and that's what gives me hope. That really is what gives me hope for the future on this kind of tactical kind of problem. Do you follow Russia Lolonois? Russia's doing now sure you have heard of Alexander Dugan. Now, ok, he was the guy who kindness created the Crimea in policy for Putin and he's a guy who's
Bela puts called the fourth political theory and he as major backing and he's a chaos guy and with a blind eye from Putin models he's not blind on anything. The he's established and is supporting all of these extremist groups on both sides is philosophy. Sickly is what we had happened with our own digital media here, where they would take side of the police and they take side a black lives matter there. Just during it it's an all country, they tactic that goes back to the Sixtys and Seventys. They did the same thing to us here in the United States. If you look at this, as a friend of mine, has written a wonderful book called the days of rage, I dont know fretted by my embarrassing and if you look at the tempo in the share scope of attack,
said the gardener United States in the Sixtys and Seventys. They far surpass anything that we are seeing today in. That was also the occasion be funded in the Soviet. Strategy along those lines. That said, if they can create so much chaos in by the United States that we would be so dysfunctional from a government perspective that they can continue around the world. I think they're plan now is to collapse us. I think that that's our strategy, but I also think that there's some very smart people inside the CIA and the idea that our stand, that that, how are we going to try to get in front of this, at least also from a cyber perspective and so forth? How can we stop them
meddling in elections. Salad. How can we go after some of their? How can we turn the tables on them from a covert operations perspective of dutch, several people about Russia and China and that their split China has no teeth there? You know they're so close to economic collapse and in revolution in their own nation. You know they. Their military is a paper tiger and I hear the same
about Russia. There not a threat. Then I hear the exact I don't find a lot of people who are in the middle. What's your take on those two? Well, I think you're dealing with. If you look at the people's Liberation Army, a China there Ministry of State security from an intelligence perspective, they are as good as the CIA or the israeli Mozart. If you look at the Russian as we are their external service and the SBA their domestic service, they are as good as the CIA and our domestic FBI. So if you break it apart from an adversarial perspective, these are very capable nation states.
Now on the battlefield, what China has can forest surpass us from a sheer Manpower Prospero, you drop people out of plague in her arms, exactly forever reproche dropping people, but from an intelligence perspective. These are noble adversaries same with IRAN, I mean what most people don't realize. Glenn is that IRAN has just is capable of intelligence service as any first world nation state wow, that's how They are, did you the day we made their nuclear deal it made me? I did.
Unlike it, I do not agree with it. I knew that the money that we would hand over that was allegedly frozen, which reportedly was part of their proceeds that was frozen during the semi I never see take over. I knew exactly where that money was gonna end up. It was gonna end up in their intelligence services Bunyan's. Why would we deliver if he never Bad is usually a cash business riot in her I mean cartels. Learn that every day, yes, I ll just deliver that to meet in cash. Why Would we do that, while that was that was a foreign policy decision that the Obama administration made? I do believe that they thought that perhaps it could be I then some time or help with the nuclear proliferate program. I knew from a practical level. That money would just show up in the coffers of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard? solemn. Many, the general now in charge the report tomorrow play to the Ayatollah, bypassing the president that he's gotta.
Windfall of money to carry out a covert. Activities all around the globe have Russia, IRAN, Turkey destabilizing all of it and really taking? Has and Hamas and surrounding now Israel, but do you think he's coming? If I could ask you for a crystal ball? What do you think? What what what what's? Let's coming? Our way I thank landed. Let us not forget that the israeli Mossad are laser fixated on IRAN. The law Time from IRAN to Israel is very short and that I am highly confident that the Israelis are, our touring. The iranian Nuclear Development Programme weekly basis at best and that the most
that they lose that window of intelligence coverage in whatever they might have human again, Isla whatever that they're going to take some sort of action, is my personal opinion on that. But I'm cough in the services of the state of Israel, No, that they're not going to lose sight of that eye. On the ball, I've seen reports from one of the big eyes it was pretty nasty in Saudi Arabia has come out open in support of Israel you're starting to see almost a coalition and I know it's all about- ran shore. But if a ran attacks, do you see air going after Arab because it is about around? I do I'm pretty coffin about that. That's the Saudis are scared to death of IRAN. There should be, and should be, and rightly so,
we see we ve got a taste of of saudi covert action as distasteful as that might be their actions understandable. I think what a lot of people to understand is that remember these services. Aren't you dedicated to internal nation state activity, they operate globally that you have The long reach of all these intelligence services, which is gonna scary. When you think about it, wasn't that long ago, that IRAN and Hezbollah- planned an assassination of the saudi and ass it to the United States. Out of me, Ferko City of all places so that is the kind of our reach that, as the world has shrunk intelligence service capability that you have all these needs. State, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, the Iranians. They operate in
what kind of contacts now and take it to our southern border? Again, I'm a guy with no, you know. I've got a few people and my staff that we just reed we're going on line and where we have long memories and we watch, people say and and remember that and then match the actions, even if there are a few years later and It's happening on arm border twofold, I think, we're being set into a a Gaza is real kind of situation to wear God. Bed their ends up being some compound on the other side of our border of these refugees. That's a constant battle that we have in the big bad Americans firing off
Tear gas Obama did it sixteen hundred times on the same border. Drug doesn't once and it's you know, horrible. Eighty think that it is possible that we are looking at a group of people now I M not talking about the actual people that are there, but foreign Forces and actors that would like to see us in Gaza situation on our border absolutely and and who stands to win and that kind of scenario. Moscow follow the money into what could be taking place in a lot of these, lines of action swell that brings me to the other part of this is. Cuba and Venezuela had had a headache: friend in Honduras, right and he was kicked out and we have
pretty compelling evidence that they are it's it's this you know alienated party, that really kind of put Some of this together and now oh, it is being funded by by open borders, people are generally are marxist and without. The media telling you the truth in fact telling you to deny what you see. How does the american How do american people figure out, who the good guys bad guys are. That is very difficult to do today. It's always And somewhat of a daunting task for the average viewer, the average Joe that's going work every day that can only turn on there. Idiot, nighter or watch upon castor holding us time. To do that. Very challenging from public perception perspective, but remain
the soviets. The Russians have always been very good at information management, this information and creating chaos, so chaos at the border for the United States, Good thing for Moscow. Good thing for anybody who doesn't like us exactly and for that to continue is something that I think is going to continue for the foreseeable future as well. We're still gonna have these flare up to the border, with these border, rushes and so forth. So I think what you look and pull the veil behind some of this money, that's being used to finance these organisations. You got something this out right:
when our KGB playbook you are you optimistic for the western culture? I have faith in the kids that I go and talk to the universe. Is I speak too, that there is a lot of interest in the topic, so we're just discussing one? That gives me faith. I am not very optimistic of Washington, Washington fairly for reason, I think that is very difficult to fix some of these problems from inside that kind of bureaucracy than it takes vote since, on the outside to shine a spotlight, on certain issues which you have done so well, and so I think that this you can have almost of an impact outside of governments. I am sad to say: aren't we knew in interest,
Time I've been saying this for a while for almost twenty years, and I used to say, there's gonna come a time when I think we're in it. Now we are all of the progress of the industrial revolution, the took Britain. Twenty years is all gonna happen in about a ten year period, because the pace of technology. But we are just changing everything in and that some of the aspects that people feel and they're not putting their finger on it can put the finger on it. Is the corporations no as doesn't really kind of work in the new world? The bank's? It's not quite right, I mean we have this, but it's not Right, the power of the government way it works. Technology has moved past the old structure, in the next ten years is gonna below by it. You just you well to be able to regulate fast enough for technology,
and I don't think anybody knows what to do, and most people don't even in other, not they're, not looking at technology there looking at the future and they're not seeing that. The people in Silicon Valley are trying to create a world that has one hundred percent unemployment. And the people in Washington or trying to have zero unemployment and the p. Oh here in the middle, don't know that this gigantic battle is on the horizon. You know. In your experience and looking at wars, civil wars conflicts. What is the thing that Allows a nation to do Really we ve done the whole time
even in our civil war, and that is come back together after crimes have great strife. We still hold on to each other. We still come back together. What. Where is there an example outside of the United States? Is there anything but you ve learned that you ve seen that we need to remember. I think, tragedy, forces. That kind of assembly, of all different face and cultures, and common mission you're, a student of history. I am too. I think that if you look at some of the catastrophic events has happened to our nation, whether it be the strike the harbour, the assassination of Abraham Lincoln. The attempts on Garfield Mckinley the shooting of Ronald Reagan by John Hinkley, the
and some nine eleven harking back to President Bush, forty three standing on the rubble born with a born that brought our nation together, but I'm not smarter two, no Glenn here what causes those kinds of things all I know is that that kind of a tragic event do we come back? other like we did on nine eleven next time. I think so I hope so. I really do I'm very optimistic that, but but the sad part to Europe to your point Glenn is it would? Something like that. I know the bring our nation back together again. One last question: What is the one thing that keeps you up at night, the using a man? If I could just get people to understand this, one thing we'd make great progress. I thank them.
I've seen so much human tragedy and picked up so many body bags from terrorism perspective where I was down in the weeds. Think as a nation, the farther we get away from nine eleven, the less and less people recall how much human casualty that caused and how much strife that that it brought nation to its knees. I dont want to see us lose sight of the bill. Barclays on the world that have debt. Their life and died in a very tragic way that I am grateful for people like that that have devoted their entire life and and of sacrifice as for a great nation, but I don't want to see us lose the eye on the ball. Based on all the different political rhetoric and all the different problems and social unrest. Do we have no nation, I think, would be very easy to do. I know I said
social, one more biggest problem we face, we have to fix. Maybe we could only fix what or concentrate really on one, but everything else. Yes, still there was still burned, but this one is a priority. What I thought That is a nation. We need to get together from answer almost a new Manhattan kind of project with the greatest minds we a symbol to look at issues chairs, Sir effective border security that you just can't arrest your way out of this problem. That is just not a law enforcement entity because there's public health problems, I think the southern border is an issue that, as we fast forward into the next election, which will become a huge hot button, so I think we need to have the greatest my. Our country can assembled to figure out that kind of solution for mass
Immigration flows that are are are pending and are going to continue to try to come in every day from our southern border. Thank you so much. Thank you for your service. All. Thank you glad sincerely. Thank you. Thank you,
Transcript generated on 2020-04-20.