Today's podcast guest is somebody who is going to make you. I think belly laugh made me belly, laugh cheese naturally funny she's, naturally warm and she is uncommonly frank. She has not had an easy life blood. Her perspective is phenomenal. I don't think we agree on very much. She is always been liberal, but now she finds herself outside of the liberal circle, because she sobered objects, like yeah analogy, see things clearly, I'm not so sure, but she doesn't know she's a conservative either. What she is is real and real funny.

I saw you on the Reuben report. Ok, thy love Dave I one day and you said that a friend of yours we doubt because you were coming here- oh yeah, whacked out, like what does that mean? I really do you really want to know other things I have been told by more than one problem. I just I didn't really. I don't I've stop telling people that I'm what I'm doing in advance, because that the pre back flash and dave- and I talked about this on a podcast- about how I'm doing this article about some self censorship, and then everybody try to tell me not to do the article. So I just don't even to hear everyone's opinions, I feel comfortable, path and what I'm doing- and I love having conversations with anyone and yet

somebody the other night identified gas and we were chatting afterwards way going is Alice and I said I'm going to do and bags by gas needed. You realize that You are talking to some who's. The epitome of evil right quite already the vat, while now matters Everts leg up for debate errors, a dead may add value and hard for even day. Anyone serious who views the world like that, because year, flattening everything and everyone else, all the shades of gray argon. Now it's just an Irish, taking twenty reduces reformist about them, being an ally in the election and the night. Before my reason, the Yahoo class and my yogi instructors lake, I can't teach so hacking around. I can't I care relax. I can't deeds and she said I feel like this is the battle between good again,

guys, lady, like yours, Vernon Way against out buzz buzz. How button yoga should help. You said well, here I am, I am thrilled you I I have read your writing and I think you're. Really and, thank God, brilliant writer, have a hard time. Accepting compliments follow its range ray. I mean, I think, you're a piano and Ernest Hemingway. Ok, thank you because you have a lot in common with him and said Oh, you are brutally honest. I think that's what makes you refreshing and not your writing. Your writing is beautiful. Your your attitude is like you're in a desert, drink of water? We cannot admit it's just a big glass of water, we decided says: there's more

yeah, but you are you're just willing to put literally everything out what's the point of going through any of it, if I can't help other people or help at that was something I learned. Even writing a playboy. But what's interesting again is that when I was speaking to somebody about this just yesterday, I've become a fire brand for being leg, saying what people think are being reason you now reasonable. That seems, that's not vision becomes partial. I said this on David should be controversial, that somebody is low both sides evaluating them in saying: ok, here's where you're crazy, here's rear crazy. I agree with some what you're saying I that's the way this is forced to work had not supposed to be game, thrones conservatives. What what do you think you can? further is well. This is something that interesting

because I don't know, I really don't know. I don't know anymore, and I don't know when I stumbled- and this is in the book, I'd like to write as how I ended up going from basically getting sober and they they say when that's over, you aren't going to recognise here. You are and unlike I'm, conservative, do I really needed to outline here the right and writing for play ball and then here there is an irish colleague into their in my friend. If there is any evidence of dissimulation, it is nowadays interaction right now at this moment is never out of. You would have never yourself. If someone had told me five and a half years ago, like you're gonna, get sober and in five and a half years and the angle I'm begging you and other drugs are on need them loud

it was an end. It wasn't leg, whatever realises, really how ignorant I am, and I ve been kind of, Joking about how the more on majority I was in working and just trying to get by and wage her saying, unwanted good writer just trying to get by and wage her saying and wanted to be a writer by the way, maybe like drawing for twenty years and had my head down and then suddenly? I started a god. Sober started writing which was always my dream and then and then the election aben, and suddenly I'm in them like caught in the crossfire, these culture wars, I'm late, do I even know what it meant to be a democratic? Did I even know what it meant to do. I don't know anything about. I just know that I sobered up at thirty, and I realized I am

may I add that mine more rather the moment, you're using yeah and zero around that time. I think they say to around five years or employer year. You had your bonded Enzo. I I definitely don't feel, I feel out of my dabs most of the time I fear may remember this is the best time it does your work. At such a steep learning tat where you're just questioning everything real cause. I've. I took everything out of me because I was like know anything. I know what people told me, but I didn't learn any of this in our own. So I took everything out of me and I couldn't afford to go to college one some. I that's right here. So I went to the library hat and the bookstore, and I got all the book of the people I think, would hate each other. This is what I am doing right now is to get on your lap. I could, if I could just get these two to argue,

You know inside if any intersection, wearied intersects, that's universal. True re, no debate, Where are they agree? Okay, we know last stroke as these guys don't agree on any the ray and assert pudding. All back in and is hard Russia hard because you're, like I remember so many times gone, and I know I don't wanna, be I'm right, I'm a german right I didn't grow up a moment. H more. Nobody chooses like hey, I wanna be a pariah, a weirdo. Didn't that's the last thing and I remember gone yeah, but that's good. That is, it is that's it. It's being yesterday I feel like I'm playing a giant high stakes. Game of improv words like yes, now go on good and bad news and why not oriented it in but your name or not,.

But you're, not just another. There's a part of Ernest Hemingway that is reckless, and I don't. I don't think you're a reckless. I don't think you're, just like all the other world now now, because I deeply how about humanity, and so I think the fear is when I get that non stop by, flash of how much wider I'm carrying for Nazis our citizens, the sovereigns, it's a lot of water. I got. I got the defender of Israel, Ward from Benjamin Netanyahu. He presented at this in time I being called a Nazi death. I this happens a lot Evans alive eyes. I find myself to just being and that space taking here

I have no one really by beginning called. I'd see on the left and getting attack by the rain, and that is a weird thing: where am I? Can you tell the out right now dog at a regime that bad that dilemma are in some way later. The sides of the same coin. There, both big statist my way or the highway you you know, bullies follies end again the openness to have your mind change to change. I think that that's it I've had to. Reinvent myself, so many times in my life, a dozen Scare me said: be: oh to the fact that I don't know anything. I don't know anything anything and it embarrassing part of it is embarrassing at how ignorant I am at so

there I mean. I know it's not. Is very humbling, is the plenary we are. You know most of my problems when I was a fox. Almost air Mistake I ever made was because It was certain one thing is certain of now: I'm not certain eying ray know anything and the the more you realize I hate item really know the more humble you get and them willing you're able to if, if I don't sit, was buddy. I vehemently disagree with and I think, as an honest broker. There's a differ Ray Ray re others, those people who are not honest brokers and re, but people who are honest brokers, people who are I am absolutely willing to change my mind if you can present the facts you and you show me, ok, look this. And this in this, this

what it saying now we don't know for sure or a great but you show me the facts, I'll debate, and I'm willing to change. If I'm wrong, I want to be a lot of times. I want to be wrong right, elbow its sometimes hard to prove a negative. So that is where I have to watch myself, because I'm I'm bad. A lot of Siena proven negative leg. Coming from place. Well, we're not sure you can speculate, but then there's what I see too is sometimes flags Becky and then than in TAT Way conspiracy theorizing and again, I see this see this lake on Freeware essentially so I and I have to watch myself that I'm I'm very. Easily I go come from a place of like well, I don't know anything could be true, but not all mean that I mean I because look.

I'm willing to look for answers right and if is an answer and you can show it to me, and I have a different opinion ok well, there's I answer and I see I see how it works. Ok, I got it there now, I'm a denier. If I, if I deny that re, however, have an upright and we're gonna have to work through that ray. I shouldn't shut you up and you shouldn't shot make up right because and we're gonna have to work through that ray. I shouldn't shut, you up and you shouldn't shot make up right because could go either way. We don't know, I just add so interesting to me that people I don't wanna talk. There are people who are untouchables. You

may be one of them where foreign sensation around you welcome german file. It is this kind of idea that you Jesse, if you go the guilt by association, and this is why I personally what happens when you're in there base of idle. Now, ok! Well, what do? What are my values? This is What are my values taken up? I feel like somebody like bench of Euro actually has been very inspirational to me and someone who, although we We may not agree on everything. He is very value based and it has made me you can say what are my values? I don't. I really value free speech. I was saying that said: David You know when I went off twitter for forty days. It gave me the ability to step back and look at is there a micro arguments that we get into and the little and its heart I mean I I I engage I've heartache. I can't help it.

Tricks serve me them. The Canadian me pardon me that legs get arise out of people. If we were now we're not supposed to know so many people. Now? Where is another? We're? Not it we're not capable we're we're. About Bob. That's all I need to know about Bob Rank and all get along. Labour on the street, who I waved to as I'm driving by knees, watering Islam. That's all I know about Bob. That's all I need to know about Bob Rank and I'll get along. We urge we. We we're being exposed to all of these be re and some of more dumb as a box or wrong. Some of them are you know it's a mess their baby would we would dismiss them, we would know we would have to conversations with one in the convenience store and we would be like ok honey. I just saw Bob and convenience store two minutes dog

that in any more than they would be over we're engaging these people, all the time like it matters in two thousand. It doesn't dozen, and yet here we are aids in the cold, Words are so we're in because I again and this is something that I would say on Reuben and then I have to ask myself as what you know. How am I, how am I We make him this worth. There is a vital me that again it's the part of me that is like South Party in may philosophy, I can't help but think everything is hilarious. Answer is another one of my values as comedy adjusting is a value of mine. I realise that I am free speech and poverty are so you know their own gad, necessary and their necessary for people. You need to be able to laugh at your pain. You need to be able to laugh at things that are taboo. You you have

You knew release its wide dictators. Don't laughter about them. Tat is you can be little and you can move past it right? I mean one of the things that I notice- and I was just saying this as you have the kind of own people and my space. What I space out, as I would say, James Linsey as a good example, the idea, now be or whatever any anyone who is willing to have conversations with the acts. If they knew exactly what we are often labelled as drifters, which I feel like is a very convenient way to try and demonize people who are willing to have come. Decisions when people that they may not see eye to eye on every single issue s and I just kind of embracing like Agatha grafter. Now I do said Peter and James here

I love them. Love them highlight their brilliant. James is on my bag ass. Any of these guys love them. Beer sitting there and he says about forty minutes in. I have been trying to find things. I disagree with you. I can't and its it. We are so close to each other. I we ve let these We let these lies or the this little sleeve array of us on the edge aloud to be our entire carry it's like the flattening like, like everything is flat, we're just flattening people or flattening words. Words are losing meaning like nazis, for example, were laughing about. We ve, probably we I'd be laughing, but we should look it's one of those things: enrichment, gatesmen did a song and the yeah geese and what was it? The flyers take her statue down

she's, skates may re girl, God bless America right, she's been dead for after mirror, she did a song in nineteen, thirty one that is called. Why darkies here that in your life, oh my gosh, I can't believe Why are we cancelling dead people there already Ganz like acumen, but here's a crazy thing song, was written for. Broadway show me king right, a white supremacist ray. So it was a song it was. It was spring time for Hitler. We we're going- El Brooks, is in trouble, mad cow the trouble is in trouble everyone's into any everyone is in danger of getting cancelled, and that is the answer same thing that I feel like you know, but when it is serious to me, when I do say will what is my wrongness? Why?

How can I help in the conversation, and how am I heard again and a fine line is a fine, because I feel like I have to push the edge in order to get people say feel liberated, to talk about things. I love you love, they wouldn't know we talk about us, they would just even with that, I feel it. We ve been living under magua sense, like twenty thirteen and I mean that by social media mob and people always say well, free speech? You can you know not going to come around. You know, but when you take someone- and urges lively, went away and you might as well break their kneecaps lay in my will,

that mob law has been around longer on now, and I now, but I mean items of that amazing I feel like where we are seeing Ives. I say twenty thirteen just because that was when I really that was the just seen Sacco the girl who got on the plane made the joke and land in life was ruined and I was like this is really bad guys. Yes, this behaviour is terrifying which puts what's horrible. Is we are entering a new phase. I mean you know the mobs here been destroying and smearing people forever rain. Both sites, I'm Kyle Advice, ok, I just don't. We noticed that in, but when it when it

burns like it did, starting in twenty three green too, where its anyone like I when I was at fox. Oh my gosh, I see crazy, but it's part of my job right and I'm Joe was just like you. I have to do comedy and I have to shape the tree to get people to listen to an hour monologue about Woodrow Wilson right. How do you make them number one on television at five o clock in the afternoon right- you don't you have to- u have to you shake pre, so there's that balance and you'll always get some of it wrong. You always wrong, however, when they start coming after you and they there there not just coming after you and destroying you. They are now

after you destroying you and erasing re ray you're being you re stray if they can't, if they need to replace your image with that cartoon of of propaganda monster re then what they do is they just erase you yours now try to find your writing from playboy. Gone, and it's got an it is, apparently you know because they switch servers, and perhaps There were trying to Ray or pivot and they just wives play clean, which I think, because I just me I mean Kevin Williams, and yet what is the preferred? I think even and I think even my friend, my four Zira and he's a great writer I believe, has suffered zone. So I dont want to say it's only useful looks a little rough playboy which, as you are, but it is gone

and I get unceremoniously damned with no advance notice the jury are. We are developing a world of we're book burning, we're not even book burning. Now, what's entry thing is the recent thing of going after the girl who they can and then they had her retract her her her book before it even published camp can burn a blank ovens, never been published right. It's like pre, bookmark, burning right and it's removing books and things and ideas and people just gone right, but then Also, we are building ghetto walls. Their digital ghettos Who can talk? All you want, say whatever you want, but that digital wall is here we're not going away. Anybody here you know you're. Still there you're still doing you're thinking imaging, can't make any money. You can't make an impact. You can't

anything because they ve just said: no, you, U Jews or fine, you can just delete, here in this little area and were so put a big wall around and its frightening, because people, if we were bill in actual walls, people would say no if we were actually removing people from society we would say no Ray If we would actually burn books, they aren't ya, but it's all tool and her interesting it's weird that as the weird of being in the space that. I see that a gives the people more attention, so the people that there may be building walls around they stop platforms but yeah. What do you do when there? The stuff that worries me is like the demanded

nations and recently I'm on patriotic recently, I think, mastered her. I could be wrong. Somebody guy one of the. I think it was Mr Herbert they said we're not going to accept payment when you are talking about the financial backing I mean that is terrifying because that serve I don't know anyway to like that. I don't know any. I know that people can justify that, but that is again. Where am I ok and this middle leg of trying to find myself on this journey and there are lions words like freeze reach. You should be able to make you know payments there should be. Deciding who they well and won't take money basin. What they're saying that is damaging guarantee? U verse

on? You, too will be easy. Man is, I think we are slowly. I mean you, don't you we'll never watch any of these interviews that are interrupted with loans are commercial? Try do I do it's your room and there I tell them errands Erin a dreamy out in the name of whereas nervous and I had a dream, and I said you know I can say anything on Twitter. I can say voicing girls endeavour and any result no dared. Not. I tell them that dream and he's late thanks laboratory just Gandia amounted to pipe we're demonetized on everything, always in advance. It doesn't matter what I say he had reared and so it so that suffers because in so something that's always been really interesting and again, I don't know the answers. I've always been as I've watched technology really interested about free markets, tat apology and freedom of speech and where they're gonna intersect, because those are its wild, As we know now, it's all brand new, we don't. We have never had sir

much like you sad connection and acts. Us and so many people relying on it for their livelihood. And it's where everybody is my fears I was just until we could may nephews their lack the tv tvs done on time this generation, whatever it as the millennials lash generational watch tv. Third, it's done and they were on their phones and Youtube. They live on you too, that is and so to act like you to g monetizing. People is not really deeply problematic and that its, but the problem is funding hate and it depends on what the definition of hate is this? The thing that really bothered me, you know Google and Youtube and Facebook are working on algorithms right to search for hate. Re won't wait

hold it, I dont think we're idle. Who determines that you keep using that word? I do not think it means. What do you think it who determines a right and how do you apply the terms of service? Equally, if you're going to apply them equally and say, hey that people who are is, I call me prove message of yours speaking the approve message in your saying whenever you want to say and demonizing people in whatever way you want to say- and you are Getting away with that. Ok, I will accept that you can apply these the service equally, but you're, not you're. Applying them into one the people who aren't in the approved the approve masses. Let me go to someplace, maybe possibly sensitive. Ok, it's a trap

Imagine a guy! I know I want to talk about. I you you, you you, you used to deflect a lot with common, yes, and so I want to take you back to the experiences that you had, that really kind of started you on this track of alcohol, can you are you willing to go there on yeah I mean as much as I can see where where do we began I think I think I was foreign and alcoholic. I really do and even just my there are examples I can think of from my childhood AL.

You a very simple one, my god- he was father. He gave me two pounds of gummy varies from my tenth birthday arable and that the only kind and- and I walked in and the other survive. I lacked myself and my dad's office a all of them because I didn't want to share and Frank and my tenth birthday, throwing audio and that and I was addicted to sugar and I lied about in our sneaky about it and books too. I would read books obsessively. I always feel like I've been trying to escape and get. I, though, is urging him the wizard. Things that, since I was before I ve found our call? My parents got divorce

I found out, and I moved every year and a half and I never felt like I said, Anne anywhere and people were horrible to me. This is why I am very sensitive to mobs. I was always the girl on the outside and always I am deeply distrustful of groups, because I was bullied by everyone and of an all the time. I wanted three eighth grades, that's a lot and two ninth grades, and those are you bullying now form, because my parents are insane and it's my mom and I said well, my mom got married, and that was a lot and so we moved a lie and maiden really know what to do with me being the oldest or where to put me, and so they kept tried. They just were trying to figure out upon me in school and then I just started drinking and smoking weed when I was twelve thirteen and then we are very

restore yeah, but it was. I didn't, have to try and finance in in schools anymore, because everywhere you go. There's a group of people. The party so is. I just took all of my and I was a girl that wanted to go to Harvard and its. I might cry if I talk about this, but because its those things that I feel like I've had to forgive myself for as an and my parents and in you know, talking about Erin resentments and things that I work programme at twelve sub programme. So I will get through like resentments and that feeling like I got derailed if I may potential was somehow derailed. Of the supper was going on and our household witches when they talk about this power is every insane my theirs alone.

Mental illness, and so you know my mom killed herself and how can I am having to down with mental illness? My foes got a divorce yeah. I start drinking in smoking, pot same age, yeah, Iris, Ranger Neighbour, pretty Ninety home life and then just continued I mean I just kept. I was so was I I was loss. I was I I was a rehab nineteen and you would think that that would have kind of Let me back on the path for so I basically drinking and twelve and then it progressed pretty steadily and by the time I was seventeen hours, just full blown and school. I finish high school and that barely my senior year was that may say. Have amazing yuri. I almost failed out and

then I went. I was working in a restaurant and we were doubts. I had a vague idea and we're downtown and a guy roofing me and then I won't, I got jargon raped and after that everything escalated. I I started started going to college by it. I was pretty much full blown alcohol. I get that point and was running from alive pain and then even more pain. And then I was I related to hard drugs. You angry drunk out now. I wasn't like that. I was not a it. Didn't manifest away from me. I hear a lot of stories of people I got in getting and fights and seven I was pretty happy go he actually and lose. It was a better person when I was drunk

I was I might have banned. I mean a lot of people argue I probably am sitting here and I get start drinking. I gotTA grants serves Rogan, we that's a homage we'd results. And I ended up in have a nineteen for heroin and Weirdly. Can you tell me the experience of her? yeah it's great now I was now we just want to make it nor we're making the money now via cards are now Ed's. Ed's air was the relief I always side. So my brain is loud people who I was this may realise that by now I have races all the time I have. It takes up

Elijah now for me to keep my time a concern with mental our house and again these are things that I could talk for hours about, because I have so much experience. That- and I just say I see when it takes now or to keep me kind of even kill, and it's it's a lot, and so I and I had no cobbling tools. I had nothing. No, no one gives you those coping tools when you're young, which we bulgarian kids like how to regulate themselves, emotional and how to talk about. Something that may be traumatic happened to them or whatever. And when the first time I smoked heroin, primarily until re before I get in I just remember the first time it was like Nirvana like yours, just quiet, and I can get there now with meditation ends

yeah yeah. Unless it's the day before the election, I was actually they re funding. We are ensuring that crying and eager eyes I call but its breath work and areas areas. This was like last week and setting their during my breathing and and crying- and I was a god of Glenn could see me now did you know, is every Africans and then I started thinking I want to do our the blanket renewed reared series earns Rijn gland during a have deserved lumber made love, go yoga forever were Geringer yoga for awhile area its most. It's one of the hardest work out, oh yeah, and in the middle like our get quite dead is leave shits artist and the most lax in humans and worried that maybe your browsing out equally vineyard is passing out. I

definitely I was in an rehab, but it was. It was quiet. My brain was quiet and I was a quick race to the bottom. For me, I didn't I don't do it anything really have an eye just was essentially with any year was in rehab, took me downers eighty nine pounds I was in the hospital and then I put soften rehab areas, I knew I had totally one of those like cliche independent film moments where I come back. I was our now lay with my boyfriend and I reach something in my bath and then I caught a glimpse in the mirror, and I can see every Arab and I

In the mirror and arduous nothing, there's no known was home. Is that soul s dad? I you know, and I would like to live a life tat I read I again after is both a thousand everything online it. So I always jug of other, like I'm just the Greece after school special girl. I'd take all those matters, other all the called thing to and told me the gulping all that there is the hall I accidentally ended up in sex called adds the whole line. Sorry I, usually about so you just like I can't I don't think I saw that that might be for HBO he'd have ABC after school, especially so I I do. I went to rehab and these women save my life. Flowers are for the first time by labour saved there

I was there I said and a halfway house for seven months and I learned coping tools, but I was so really young, and I decided that as long as I never did heroin again, I was good good to go because so as a ready to sob and honestly. It is a mere I got sobered, thirty, five and forty, the miracle that I Lou made it to thirty five m: truly and then it was like what I call the dark years than I. Basically, I then the problem in the programme and in a twelve sub programme, and then I blamed everything on the programme and read all the books and I let again andean I read like how a failed man I I built up Kay so that I can succeed. They leave and not have that head fall of of all their knowledge and of bellyful booze. This is totally tony Robins recently, and he said I love you too

two great guy, Levin zombie savouring an Israeli. Only now is a grave error has so, but he was saying that there was a guy that came up to him. He he quit smoking. You helped us earlier square, he up quit smoking and the guy came up to him five years. No like got ten years later and said you failed me. She said, but these do you remember me and it was early his career and he actually did really said. He tat. You were a guy who's stuff, so he said well how I'm the last he said, five years they said five, Sears in my wife left me and I just went out of smokes he's like some dude. I didn't fail, you you failed yet for a lot of people, have a lot of persons runs about twelve Sampson. Why not- and I don't think it there

one solution for everybody, especially because when you start taking apart, why led somebody to addiction you'll, find there either. Sometimes someone gets overruns like oh you're bipolar, and you really just need Medikit. You know yourself medicating and sometimes Ed's in my answer. That was just so series of May genetics and also Ben lifetime piled on top of that and I just spend most. The twenties not even been like a teach, their own irish light and die. I was one of those people are like all those. And he had seen their fear base programme doing something better for their lives and having other leave work, how dare they I just wish. I had to be against because I knew I thank and it is amazing the lengths I went to avoid going back in Irene Yoga I became yoga sector

it- did alive therapy in our police and agenda eggs. Any anything that you I could try to manage. And eventually I just ended up and Ed Span used to hey when everybody so like everything in my life should be stamped with poverty, and now my gallant, that's my soul. So what was it that you are avoiding wagon the inventory. The shame so I think from throne. For me, I feel whites Oh really came up when I quit sweater again, I say I've been again. I said I have been sober five and a half years and I've had twitter the whole time and I quote I didn't go on- I was, and I realise how much of an escape MAC as mayor was for me and how much I was using it and the feelings.

A lot of the shame. I doubt whether I would say the first round of in peeling that I dead in terms of what is going on Where does just shame? Shame about feeling my guide failed myself feeling a guide fellows you could have gotten parents yeah things like that stupid things, but that was my one and only dream, and so then I had again a nineteen really reinvent myself, and that's when I realized the nineteen that I wanted to be a writer and that necessarily college for that. So This kind of happened at the same time realize that was my path this this or threesome round as uncomfortable as it is for me to admit publicly. I is feelings of worthlessness like really deep deep. I may cry: that's like right here: deep feelings of worthlessness and that has kind of ivory

from there. I think my whole life, and that it's interesting to see how I all the ways in which I reacts to rejecting myself the ways that I did when the ways I reacted to shame thy promiscuity, it's like those reactions that I had to these feelings that I didn't know how to cope with after after getting raped. I was so I don't know how to explain that. You just feel like broken and I think I spent a long time writing from that and it's a miracle I loved, like I love through, because a lot of people down

and I've seen a lot of people come in and that's what happens. That's a hard thing about getting sober is facing yourself honestly, and so that inventory, the working here. What my part is eve in something that where I was truly a victim even working, how I abandoned myself lying before. Even that vote How I reacted to it? So it's not even in those instances it's not necessarily even what happens to me that I have to take responsibility for about how I reacted that event in my life and the wreckage let our cause in response to it is that's on me out. I I have to take responsibility for it.

I forgive the fact that I didn't have many. Kobe mechanisms are tools, or you know it's funny and I'm sitting here thinking one of the things that I heard about being online and being o Brien online is like. Sometimes the trolls are right. You know sometimes in the all right- and I read these articles- that they write about me from all right of veto in the men's rights activists, and they say you know like oh and her step, daddy issues, inner her and like she probably got raved in all the servants like yeah yeah. There right, is when that her. That hurts, because their rights and then I'm like em, yes, react way garden

mass. Every act, tat. If I might just projecting a reaction, I don't I don't wanna, be doing that some maison, if you're really address, if you're a thinking and feeling human being how how good it is, and yet we don't talk about it. How good it is to look at those comments and ask yourself: am I just that and and and that's you know that I think part of the problem with the society today is:

pain, is awful pain is good. What what happens? I thank you now. I can separate myself and say: that's not just me away, I'm in a good place. For instance, what is you know? My therapist sad? I worry about you. Twitter because you already feel like you're worthless, and you already feel, like your garbage, go back to that. First. Take me to the difference: if there is any between feeling, worthless and feeling broken, and if there is a deep what is it and how are they connected? I know now. That's a really good question. I feel like the worthless, Thus, I don't know what I've really I mean it sounds so I can,

I was joking that I will have to enter and in for a lantern found God, and I really was in joking. I really feel like the antidote to worthlessness. Is God it's the only thing, really I've been able it's that idea of the gods Eyes hall the thing that I've been trying to fell with men, no intended like. All the substances. Hopefully money That held that reject law. I knew what I need to know from that. Feeling broke in was more of a reaction to an event that happened to me feeling worthless. I feel like That was something to the two. I fell down

and again, I don't know so much happened. I don't know if it was from moving. I don't know if it was always feeling isolated. I don't know if it's part of you know being the kind of atta mentality which I feel like. I see a lot of attic struggle at that feeling of worthlessness or use closeness and that or if it was parenting as geez. I hate to say that publicly has I love my parents and feel that they really did the best vague card, which is where people always say when they like nothing. The message that they didn't do their job now and even if they did they dead and they didn't still morals or man? I do think. Given the same compassion is something that I really

in all areas of my life and gratitude. These are things that they held me too, Oh, that part of me that feels worthless adjusts, but it could Sob and then when I am getting mobbed online and I put on a good friend- and I can I can- I do deflect here right away with humor and got good on you for seeing right through that, but I think There is a disintegration that occurs and probable. From trauma- and this is the weird thing about trauma- and I've learned a lot more about trauma as that when that fell dirt kind of takes over when in a place or that spend trigger, and which is a word that banks but it does happen. I feel like. That's the only ones. I can see myself thorough. So suddenly I am again after I am a hack. I am hearing water for Nazis. I am worthless,

m garbage. I am so glad I am whore. I am all of the I mean the horrible things they got lab die. You anonymously all, and I do a pretty good job not really paying attention to and are seeing, but you see it. It's a comes thorough and then I have a hard time remembering that. I'm not that that I'm I'm you know, but Yet who has a dog that she rescued and choose clean its tube back yard leg come. I have to answer that to real life. I think, helps when you're in there they in turn all shame spiral as virtual. You know who that is its and the virtual world is a weird per it's kind of mirror of that in turn. All I mean I was walking in allay and I dont want to swear by the sky.

Is a homeless grand and he was screaming news like not is like a cat bank too. Shot any screaming and rigorously worrying the EU has come out of the way. Did I didn't we, I've been trying to divorce inspired me in your own words, and I am sorry, but that is how I listen. That's how that's how I know when I'm doing well how? No you can really when I can be alone with No music, no distraction, no tv on in the background khazar times. I just did it this morning. I was reading something It triggered something a memory of me and like a bad memory of me,

ten years ago? And I went in the better than you know where you're just like make noise and that have used to happen all the time and when you're. When you're, when you ve truly let go of it and you ve truly dealt with it and made the immense and accepted the forgiveness for yourself. You were goes away. When you are constantly being picked at constantly being pointed to and saying you're a bad person, it's too dangerous I think this, and why do you do you know what that's the question? I ask myself: why do you? What is the bigger thing that drives you? to continue to take the heads and to keep going.

Forward, because by all accounts somebody, like me, provocation, be doing what I'm doing, because I'm not a victim choosing to to take more pudding, solves. This position were saying what we're saying, and there are consequences of our speech by it. What drives you. You know, there's that I'm saw the point where I'm like yeah check out and I mean you you're more at the point, the main I'm still born there. There were several times a year. I looked through my wife and go you realize we could just pack emulating we already have a house in the mountains. New will never have to talk to anybody again and will be happy. Why we doing there. So am I,

it's here got history when I grew up a back and in all geyser fascinated by world were to turn you raise, but back is a german name and I know there were backs there. My family wasn't, but I know my relatives had to be over there Which side where they on what did they do, what they say and the more I read about history: there are these epic moments in history and. I want my grandchildren to be able to stand up and say you know when that time came here's what my grandma Grandpa did and and not be have to now

Have to just you know, hang their heading. I don't know. We really never talked about that. You know. Yeah. This is very interesting, but you want to be somebody we're going through garthie right now, and I think it's gonna get worse, but we're going through Mccarthy Array. Now, don't you want your kids to be one. That said My mom she said my mom went to jail for it because He knew it was wrong, say yeah and it's funny being in the middle seen both of us here. Both of the sides. Now that I've woken up and the other side would say that we are on the wrong side of history. You know that that's good! That's interesting too, in terms of the The One feels like there on the right side of history. He killed. But let me ask you this: you give me faith,

and so to so many others that, and I, I don't ever want to paint a broad brush. There is the right side of history and they, everybody on this site, is on the right side, because I know a lot of people on the conservative I think they suck gay and, I think, they're off, target and the. If, if I were to define a conservative, what I am is, I am trying to conserve those things, a value that have helped us be a great people there's a lot of crap that we ve done that's bad, but that's conserve the bill of rights. Let's can serve that Institution as written not the wayward doing it lets concern. Of decency, let's conserve reason right,

and logic and science. You know not just I'm gonna make up a were I'll. Tell you what it did the due process. I think we need to conserve those things beyond that. You know what we can. Fight all all day, long but re. Those things are being lost right now, that's how I feel I mean that was what I was saying to sell on the other day. If, if Ike and say boys and girls different. You know I I I guess that makes dragons earlier EV. If I'm, funding. If I feel like that that saying that people I feel like I should be able to say that, and now people are saying well, you know you re route you're out it's the period. That is like one of the priority task and you know, but you know what how you know you're on the right side. If look, if, if I'm on, I will have anybody Mona shows show as honest brokers. Are you willing to change your mind and I

I think I'm gonna change your mind, but if you're willing give your open ago, you know I don't know, I don't know. If you're willing to be an open, honest person broker, no matter how much we disagree. I want to have a conversation. I'm gonna learn something from you. You know in and I know I'm on the right side when When I'm saying I'm out, Let's talk, let's talk as it only me, us better, I have to have each other thing and we have to talk and if not, if the other side is saying shut up or your ostracised, I know you are I've, seen the movies here, usually dressed in black uniform That is the danger. I think that's what I mean that's. Why does is why are we here and run it and that's why I have hope because you're not alone, there are so many people who we are

I don't even know re may disagree on autonomy, really big hangs gray, but you and I could live next door to each other ray. We could be friends, I we would be we'd, be fine forever yeah. We would have strong disagreements, probably right, but we be friends that gives me hope how many people on the conservative side do you see going over to the left and joining the laughed in saying. You know what I'm with you I still believe the things that I believe me. I still believe that the border is out of control or whatever, but I'm with you guys cause guys will at least are common sense you're. Not so an intellectual, deep intellectual discovery,

on the conservative side moving over because the other side is shutting down all intellectual variations ray it's it's interesting because I have seen a lot of people come from the right, as in others, man that their there that there seems to be a migration into this. You're from both camps and is one area where even the people coming from the right there like ok, I can see how maybe I was blind in some respects and memory olympian may display. I just clarify, because I wanted sure we're talking again thing, I'm saying. I'm saying it centre is not the centre, as people always identify you see, totalitarianism, I don't care of its right or left european right or left. I see that over here, I see freedom lovers in, general area guy? They disagree on everything. But they agree with. You share

right say it is right to live your life. Your own way. You should be able to marry you ever you want. These people cannot tell you one way or another anything. So I to those who are those. The twentieth century dictator kind of progressive kind of thought before dictator. Bad word. I see those people over here and I see average people moving away from that Nick coming here and go, and I agree with you on anything, but those people are not. At the same yeah I think that you see from people coming from the right is that their seeing elements of it from that side too. So that's what you hear from the refugees from the ride so from my perspective, icy elements, every beds, encroaching it's the it there's. The extremists have kind of hijacked. The parties and and most

people are afraid to speak out against the approve messages because improve messages so strong and in their battle in the meadow where your kind of trial, find your way Billy boy one leg in I don't want. I agree, Width, I don't agree with that. But this is this is terrifying and that for I think a lot of people are bonding around in the middle and they just our instead of because they have jobs, kids and they I have an eye saying this and ruin. You know I've seen Mommy's get shamed out of mommy groups, I've seen people it so, so radicalized. It's it's cool it did this by an and again it's the flattening, but there's a lot of people who aren't flat their humans like me, who I'm not, I don't think about her. I had shrunk

and we ve service. I try to help people. I really care about the more evergreen topics. Lake addiction mental health and saxon relationships and free speech, and that is the hell I feel like I've. I'm dying. I need that adds beds of my work I started and I started noticing it. And now I started noticing it in editorial ways: pre Elect And so this was already kind of happening, and I noticed I started self censoring and it has been interesting getting all these emails from people all across the political spectrum, people from the right people from I have people. There is a certain amount of in all polite self censoring that we all do to maintain civility and deep. See and and just being human, but when people are afraid that they'll lose their job because they are speaking and in or I can't tell you how many, how many of you

we'll have come out to me as well, rotarians ends and allay where they were like they're they're, basically like I'll, never work, I'll, never work again. Effort even comes out that I listened Avenger Bureau or you know, people recognize me and say I saw you on the roof and reported. I fear I see you so that to me it dangerous that happens on the right to I mean I went from the hero of the right to down from scares the hell out of me I and Austria you eat it. Is it is you must play for the team re rain? My team is common sense facts recent ray and you don't have a record here of doing any of those things are being for any of those things and the red ex surrounding it is really frightening. You know

already has a track record. I can separate the rhetoric and him which I still feel this we're about and some his policies compared to the policies of of over here, but you can't, all subtlety is lost. Now it's good to push back in think people who pushed back, especially in particular about even I guess in your and since I didn't realize that you kind of came out against Tromp day right would say I was probably enemy. Number one were ok see. Have you forgotten high? That's all right, we'll have been twenty thirteen twenty two twenty eighteen was. It was after twenty. Sixteen was after twenty third die now that I didn't really how to start caring about our guy hours with my privilege to learning their lives drunken high and even several hours is like trying to get along our holy cow. Those two years were yet so I did

think the reaction, the natural reaction of like this is not a decent person, is in a normal reaction to have that is a incident o k reaction to have. I see people on there. I get absolutely crucified for this and it is- and I- and this is really where I stand- it's not really any the politics. Some learning about by I'm just lay can. We return to decency because I see the demon zation of people and it I see it almost sides. I know that everybody hates that term. Both sides by I do see it's not just There has been a lack of decency. You do you in and it with down trump? If you don't like Donald Trump or die support, Donald Trump and you're on the right. You are from hell because these p oh, are after us, people are afraid that, and I am too about what

some of these socialists want to do to rank Ray, and some of them are the people around them? Are crazy radically scary. However, I judge myself. What I like it when I don't like same thing, though, if you wear a trump hat, your racist me, that's crazy! Don't have you we ve gone from, don't judge me by the character, my skin, don't judge me by the color, my hat yeah Ed's and sound there's no subtlety. There's no reason. Look, I don't know like everything that this person does, but I don't hate everything this and, and here's to be great, because we had differing and then we would push back and meat is kind of hopefully somewhere in the middle, and it was this swaying and now it just feels like no one is listening to each other and It seems to be increasing as we approach to twenty my hope for people as that they are under

stand the urge to retreat into a tribe because Ed's, it's scary and its map of natural, its also terrifying. When you're out there just alone in the metal, try to be new. God forbid. You get battered by everyone and so I feel really alone yeah Nobody eyesight people who will read you and will support you, but They won't aerial, not sharing. I've had He will reach out to me and say I love that our colleague never share, and so then it is that isolating the you know being and allay, I think, without twitter. I whereof gone crazy because I felt so ideologically isolated. I thought I was losing my mind when I started pushing back but all that and feeling and so much of it is insidious. That is what I always say about censorship, be no people when they say, though, push back and say well, they're, not knocking on your door and they're, not locking you up Saint, get it sorry,

in the mind self censorship and set censorship starts here. It starts from you start being quite I'm putting your head down and now the way not saying this, because they're afraid I was in I was in Poland was with chief rabbi of Poland and he said proudly there are seven thousand righteous among the nations her. No, you know the Norwegian. Suddenly righteous among the nations are those who stood up and saved you now having sellers bikes, six thousand, eight hundred something like that, and I was like you're happy about that. How many millions of people lived here and he looked at me. A totally different perspective, and I didn't understand it at the time I do now. So do you realize what those people risk

He said most people would not even come to the window, because if you came to the window and you open the curtains you whatever punishment they were getting gay, so they trained, don't just looked and looked down, looked down, look away, we're being trained. Look down look away. Yeah when we see something such nets? oh, I feel so. You know I see, I see elements of this kind of when marginalize, have been repressed or press sir. You know that, act like that, doesn't happen either as where I I gotta get upset when because this is what I mean about the flattening flattening is lake urine and this camp or in their camp. You either bully We're not had I been here desolated site can servers just don't care about anyone that when you ask me why I thought a conservative was my God and think is like

you like money, now care at any. That's what I was raised, wrath right. That's the factory settings and- I have learned and talks with many conservatives now and had many conversations, and maybe it as that. Getting older too. There's that all joke of, like era liberal in your twenties and if Europe or whatever it is, sewn on ever hard. If your liberal, in your twenty ahead, if you're not gonna, hit me it shows the natural this circle of life. I don't think so. I think conservatives I think it is Strangely five only being understood that a lot, not all a lot of conservatives are for the bill of rights. And so we don't disagree with. Bill of rights, freedom of speech the left is always gotten that label of we're for freedom of speech. Now

no you're, not you're, not for freedom of speech. You're for freedom of speech are put across a you know in a jar of urine. You can do that all you day, but if I put a statue of Obama in a jar of urine you no funding for me, they ate. Oh, there. Is this place too, where good? people on the right and the left are saying- I don't care what either of you re Ray, don't care. An environment, because most people, one of the interesting, things that was being exposed to conservative circle. So suddenly I mean Expo: is mine and I'd been exposed to kind of getting that the left drag These are what ever pylons I hadn't and then I because consumers are sharing my work, I suddenly was getting and then summoned the underbelly there I had seeing that were ideal, a K. You know we need to be for free speech and they

gear and then something similar reason now macro and they're. So I'm going to see the world renowned the same to you, you have a right to say it, but I'm not an you should be in the kitchen pregnant, ok, so to actually there is an you know and by the way, massage emu is the underbelly bad. Something like to act like I'm. Only exports here on the right is not sure who I am sure I got it from all sides by because its people, just as we were and via was entered the city like ok to tat a blind eye to the raised to racism anywhere is is not you know, that's, ok. Thank you now to look. I don't think I dont know those be

yeah. I do know the people I'm like. Ok, I don't think we're friends anymore. I mean it's it's it exists in its real, sometimes I'll, tweet, something and then someone vague who has a large fire. Going like that will reach. We me with that. And of underbelly and then I'll immediately tweed, something Shadds Oliver, whom I now do you think I'm gonna make just like. I have some guy, whatever I can say to get rid of. Why does this group that just came in and thanks somebody did just when its wild They call themselves liberal, but they openly admit you'd call me a com

appreciate you have in the end and having the gods to have this conversation. I've had I've had more conversation, I went to LOS Angeles and I stood in a room of about a thousand people and I said how many people here think they might. Ninety five percent of the room raise their hands k major convert. I had the exact opposite. In fact, my family didn't change their mind. They were like now I don't know, but it will, but it I have had so many conversations with men have a conversation with com. How many they call themselves liberal, but they openly admit you'd call me a calm and yes but.

It's amazing. How close we are in opinions when it comes to the big principles you know yet, and the people are just afraid I had dinner with many people in LOS Angeles, and they were the heads of of big groups, and none of them the deal was you. You can't have a team can have dinner, you can have a team and nobody is talking about this. Ok, nobody sand, sharing whose who's, who I was the only conservative allow and We were all in agreement on the big principles mall in agreement. People are sick, yeah. Sick of air is just a free air. There I was, I was kind of noticing mess. Recently there is that whole thing about that and I may be going. I'm crazy rabbit, Holworthy right now, but with the

me, Sir worshippers, where that everybody and there seemed to be this kind of bad faith. Are you and I don't know why you're take was on this. So forgive me whatever it was by I heard I don't like they're, trying to destroy Christianity, blubber, why and might take on now, as I look to them like know, these people are in petrol, is their own party there so afraid of their own party. They can't say Christians like that is how I see that that I've I've you if only I see them being terrified of their own. That's even it is worse. Is that I see it is worse. I think that the easy explanation, as the lazy one. I think really it's like they're, so afraid of of

angering that kind of radical base that is emerge that there are like it's a good boys, awkward, these technical things, beds and sobbed again being in the middle. I kind of have this perspective. Where am I know a guy? I think I think it's way worse than you actually wrecking Harold are fine sir. I do believe that are you now? I believe that Arafat now, but it's I don't. I think it it's more sense than my government wants an historic moment just that. As a very flattening, that's a flattening dynamically do, but but very few or afraid too a Christian then somebody along the line, it is like Christian. Ok, that's behind ideologically follow. That thread tells us

again, I kind of example of like that that their prove message, that's frightening. No Michael reckon. While this they hire right. If I can find that that does mean something nobody along the line up and that we do not like no, you guys get Rikers apparatus. You know my reckon Wilder's, Michael, is, who is it and why you he used to write white papers for commune, ok he's, he can always considered himself a communist. They said to myself because any bailed he just bailed like two years ago and came out his like. Ok, I'm not these people and I, like Michael what of

you ve been a communist. Your whole life writing white papers. For the many said, planet was theory. It was very. He said. I think communism in theory is good. He said it all with goes bad, he said, and these people who actually believe it our tariffs. Yeah I my my areas married. My ex husband is from Belarus and he is like. I did not he's got a map. I did I get stopped in the streets by people from Eastern. You know the Eastern Bloc and they'll. Stop me and they'll be yelling at me about Americans who don't get it coming. You, Americans don't get em like I know. I get it I know by. Why can't you cut through and tell them? I like, I don't know, I'd, try getting, try and you're saying, because irish sighing K Wintry make up z my.

A story about my eggs and how he will Why do the citizens is really smart? Any had he understood satire, even though it came with barely any English and then he didn't understand my toilet paper reference. They were making their throwing toilet paper and the trees which of your marriage, gang icon governing areas and his eye. What is this turn a baby, I'm better accents when in November and the jury's bangers like you now we just dinner the homecoming thingy music so when I was standing in line for, Inter Alia, paper throwing us yeah yeah sure you put the wrong side of the law, but that when we vote on under special here, it's like this is this: is that's not beg he lived through. How can people I mean? I really want to talk to her. He wouldn't say really remember when you were for Venezuela

therefore this. But how does this happen? We have. How are we so happy about socialism when you ve got all history, but then you have one here that they all touted and there starving to death there starving it doesn't work. It's it's it's weird too, because I do think that a lot of America's problem in general from everyone is that they don't leave America enough and not just lay go into ITALY, a bride? I mean for your semester, broader. Whenever I mean go to countries that don't having an exit Oda to India go who I was in Sri Lanka for two months. I was in India for a month I mean go to countries where bilbil does a great stand. Aberdeen about. I hear you now here. We are in America, but how there is a little indian kid

These are areas in many areas. The way in this kid just came out and he was back now get any legs chuck. Poor right and between two cards and edges disappeared into the crowd, like Jeffrey Dahmer. At the end, that is those opposed heartbreaking thing I've ever seen, and that is something you see everywhere and it is, I feel, like the and searches so many of our issue, His gratitude just coming back in gratitude for what we have all this talk about privilege, The height and privilege is sitting around our mine bitching privilege all day you. This is your first step to end. No, have you left your account? The statue is keeping you down. You got a pretty good, why? How adds its the high of its magazine cover whatever the late hour

its dues, your as it. So it is a privilege to be able to judge relay prayer. Brigade their wine and is its mind boggling to me because it just see. I am you guys, don't see the irony of us. This is also something I only saw during the whole action, sago volleys women being like an egg, the bachelor and then be like our reality, shall browser then lady, no no sense a zone somewhere knows that man, you know how we might have contributed, not at all gang back to being annoying online. I've said, since probably two thousand five alcoholics are going to save the world I, because if we all just did a toy,

step programme? I now I say our time. Everyone needs that everyone, everyone needs of rogue country needs of road and colleague a profit from. Can we just do the first up weave overall problem that that's way beyond our control, yeah yeah we and this something then the book, if I ever get to write it. It's you know the the outrage economy and so again this is where I have to work a mere all, and I look at the space and theirs there's a whole economy. That's been built around this around severely my studio, and this has been built on the very same being an I'm trying to do good and I'm

How do I do now resided? Why do the good end and be in this business good? You should just shut up and be Tony Robin yeah I mean I was wondering about. I was going to ask you to how you, how are you hand I mean I can't number who it was, I think maybe it was sort of ed. She was doing one of those like ask me any things and I feel like he had some he said something about. Realizing that you have this audience and then you kind of have to feed the bees, and I wonder you know how and I see it on again. It's like the whole economy of it. When you, Dare to step outside of maybe what you're target demographic issues and then they turn on you. I mean I think recently evening, this avenue, Rogan, Riyadh, Jack, Georgiana audience turned on him and it was fascinating because you kind and think he's like untouchable and

I wonder you know how do you How do you Enzo you're part of that? How do you get outside of it? Can you yes you're like I'm having a hundred value a no. No, I I read a phrase when I first sobered up that puzzled me so much I couldn't. We all talk about privilege living in a world where the phrase There are many things that I believe that I shall never say I shall never say the things. I do not believe that I read that from a philosopher scientists in the enlightenment period, and I read that and I thought

Creative rule, do you live in what are afraid to say the things that you believe that was in the nineties? Ok, wherein that world and there are many things that I believe that I never say but I shall never say the things I do not believe and if you, if you I should emphasised many things: go, there's not their sister few things that I just like that, won't it won't do good cause. It will be misunderstood and we don't live in a culture that can parse thing. You know domain eyes, but you because I am an alcoholic- is goes back to our colleagues to save the world.

I've already lost everything. May so I know what's important right. You know all this can go away. I means nothing ray. I mean it's great. It sweet, leaning changes, your life, private air travel, that changes in our society, as I say that, on the way here I only gone wives again out of car. I only fly anxiety or even having coach agriculture, so they should do, should do so so lurched birds is going to use these days in devising, but an frying you're like how everybody cares about me. They can possibly guy you know or leave right when you sit in first class and they closed the curtain. It creates class envy it's just like. We are not going to look at We know people, they gather I've grades, verses of you, who belong in furs? Glass, because there are lacking

and then you have a look like first class urges down to the level of the bag of avoiding pursed up. I was afraid of those are greater than those in the back by the curtain, and I looked back to somebody was fly with me now. Just kind of peace, like their dignity, I recognize you like everything can go away. My private jet, probably homeless, don't take my journey, but the thing that- and I think it's what you do. You ve lost everything And so you know what has true value. And so you won't lose that again now and you can. Lose that through action, but you can also lose that through inaction I mean

I returned to my giant game of yes and adjusts Ben. I said when I got sober. I know what my life looks like gram drinking in smoking weed and it wasn't a p boys asked me why God sober this time. They think that its some answer I go away. I gotta do you, I you know what I'm little of your body dead inside I found dead. Inside. I felt like I was writing and some may not goes runs out through his on each one to pay and though it growled jealous, I really feel united as right as the true they felt like. I was and that has gone away, and I knew where my life, what kind of go, but it is, it is I never knew where would take me when I got somewhere clearly an issue that go to the drag that I just never no and NED Span. It's just

exciting and terrifying by, like you, said, I've already more terror, answer me, is relapsing. Are losing. I feel comfortable, my own scanned. Now I didn't not ever feel that way. I don't I'd. I feel, like the shame, has I don't Have that shame that I came into the programme with the shame of things I had done, myself been allowed the gist of the the shame that I came in with into. So rightly, I feel, like is gone. You know. Doesn't mean that there are massive blind spots, let our Yonah pop up in I hear your lesson. Best advice ever go from an alcoholic was when you least expected backed it because you're, you know you better than anybody else, and so you have prepared all these defences

all of a sudden one day. You'll find yourself in this is happened to me about five years in, and I'm like, oh my god, if he hadn't have told me this. I would have failed when you least expected expected big. As your brain will find a way a pathway, and it will come to you as come, equally reasonable, totally yeah like oh, I you have that and because I was sitting alone at the bar just wait you know gonna get dinner and I feel the craving, really isn't there and then suddenly. It was Lego that drink legs really guide and I was nervous and feeling all kinds emotions just in general. I don't like that I went to a mean I took my software meeting, which is the not in my normal behavior. I mean that's my normal behaviour now, but it is that, like insidious sneaky and I was

I'm totally reasonable. A narrow come come through, like all of this seems like a good idea right now and I I would I wear that I get some when, when I was asking you why you do it, I got me thinking about why I am doing this and this conversation I will. This conversation with anyone I will incur. Take your about recovery and getting and shame and feelings of worthlessness. I, when I gave em again us- and we talked about my heroin addiction, and I mean that was like you know. That was the all right, Julie, as everybody told me, and we- target y know, I'm not saying that I am saying that the perception and we met,

We talked about my addiction, recovery and the path, and I cannot tell you how many emails I receive from people who saw that show, and we talked about kind, signs to look forward their teenagers. If they were, he said you know what could somebody of work for with you in? you are a teenager. How could they have known that? Something dramatic have happened to you and we talked about that and people have email me and I've talked to people's kids, who were drug dealing with addiction and we have a massive opium with addiction crisis in this country, right now, just somehow you know people are struggling with this and yeah. That's that's more. To me than all the noise all of it? That is the most important thing to me. Will you do me a favor, yes,

will you keep a diary that is just a four year dear gland haven't and keep a diary of just those things, because when you start to feel worthless cause I I can't. I don't know if we feel the same way, I feel like a worthless, but what I do has absolutely no value all bad. What keeps you the things that inspire you things like this, they the emails from he bought the person on the individual. All I remember the people who will come up and say you choose by the life, and I dont know them see them. I only get Don't say that to you all the time. Now. You have more of the nice. You need to keep a good noise journal, that's really get idea. Actually, that is a good idea. I will do that one more forever. Yes, you come back out.

Motor. Thank you for having me just a reminder Mewtwo raid and subscribe to the podcast and onto a friend covered by other people,