Have you ever honestly questioned and challenged your own belief. Even when it was uncomfortable. Even when you knew it was going to shake the foundations of your life and your relationships, are you willing to go there in question? If you ve done it, you have one thing in common with all the others who have done it. Courage. They face the uncomfortable they walked through the unknown. They learned the kinds of things, can only be discovered when you're on an honest search for truth, honest search It doesn't happen very often anymore. This episode of podcast I met with Cassie J. I find her one of the most honest and humble people in my opinion, and this conversation is frankly shocking in our ability to say: ok, wait a minute. Let me just try this thought out. I dont know if I've this will will even work shock.

For someone to be as vulnerable as she is three years ago. She was a liberal feminist and she does To investigate the Means Rights Movement, she thought at the time that they were massage. She wasn't going in just to do a hit job. She was willing to listen and talk to both sides. Somewhere in the process. She began to question her own belief. We die into the taboo topics surrounding gender equality, child steady rights even portion, the table with a wide open mind on this one today bud. Guest cat J,

Describe yourself five years ago, we were you when I was very feminist. Who is very liberal, although I would say to ask, I am liberal that sets vehicle weight. We debatable for you, oh debatable, for the people that he used to be friends with or used to have, support from air. I feel, like my liberal views, didn't change, but the centre shifted. Ah sir, I think as far as my politics and why I became a democratic and liberal, can you describe liberal? How do you mean what you mean by liberal escaped the kiss me to have to find the words video,

unlike those my site, any words have meaning they ever. We all have to use the same dictionary running around this, whether such miscommunication, ah so low to me means wanting to do what's best for the whole and consider those that are most disadvantaged in the system, and this is where I start to lose my footing a little bit, which is: are we all born with a hierarchy based on her race, and things like that, and you would have five years ago said? Yes, yes, absolutely I I was a marxist feminist but now I am, I think, when we talk about social issues and politics today, we really have to look

right now what's going on, and I think of course, looking at histories is beneficial to educate yourself and know how to move forward in the best way. But I do think that times change and to me the country is not the same country was ten years ago and politics aren't the same as they were ten years ago, and ten years ago I was a different person. I was making a documentary on sex education and women's rights. It was, I had parenthood, hosted northwestern and alaskan screening towards my film and so speaking, on behalf of planned parenthood and going the marches and standing with them that I made it One gay marriage- and that was a few years before it was legalised across the nation- same sex, marriage and died. You know I think, what's consistent as I look.

At who the underdog is- and I want to stand up for them and give them a voice, and so I I do. I am proud of the work I did ten years ago and five years ago, but I think today it is different world. So what is trying to understand? You would think, as this is the way people are now that things are different than they were too. Ago, but they're just much more intense and now everything's riding on, now is not the time to let your foot up off the gas would you mean things have changed in the last ten years, not same country, and so it's but what's changed. I think there has been a power shift and I dont know I agree on this or, if your point of view on this, because there, the San Francisco Bay Area, so I really am- and above all of you know, liberal thinking for everything

and in the Bay area. I feel like my views, but I think there there's so much of one side and one opinion, and so much so so much of one side and one opinion, and so much silencing of anything that critiques that mainstream view, and I think you know the tribalism has gone so out of control that you're not able to raise your hand. And say: hey me. We were not doing this right with her own tribe. When may we should look at that. That does not follow with what we're safe we're about bait, but I found that you're not allowed to criticise your own tribe. Or you'll be kicked out and and labelled with all the other people they see their as their enemy. I think that's happening on both sides. I mean, I think, if you

You know it's, I hear a lot a train talk lately here, either on the train or you're off the train in a where's, the train, owing to drain going. So you were very liberal and end with planned. Parenthood. Feminists in Marxist was the turning point, the red pill for you. Yes tell me about it so I went in with intention of helping women's rights by exposing the massage Dennis that are keeping women down. So in two thousand thirteen, I started filming men's rights activists to make the red pill movie ends. I was astonished feminist myself of about ten years,

and ardently trust you. I don't think they did trust me. I think they were eager to finally get table to be able to speak their views and have a journalist share their, is what the world, whether whether or not it was positive or negative. They were just happy beginning the call for further press. So they don't trust man, and actually, I think, the beginning. In the early days, making the red pill fell Sir, really fascinated by what I was doing and actually got offered during by a major feminist organisation- and I turned it down because I didn't want to be- drink any one. I don't want to lose critic control over the logic drugs to treat you, where you are sincerely now. I do now. Actually I've seen this happen on both sides, where

Did people will come in, they say no we're for the truth and then they at it and it's all agenda driven and. And only that I can't tell you how many interviews I've done where I'm on your side of the table heavier style. Listening cannot listening, they have their storyline that they want to do and they're not listening when you talk to him, you could just put your hand and further eyes: hello. Are you even in there you listen, they are there not theirs there No genuine curiosity, it seems many times to have you seen that ogier I mean it their ticket bad analogy to it. It's like a pitcher

with someone that you know if you're on the same team, you want to give a good pitch so that they hit it out of the ballpark for a training, but if you're opposite team. You want them amidst strike out, and I do think that the while I'm in c I hate us to make a point that statement about all liberal in a press that, but it is mostly the the far left press that has has embellished ends up, classified my information and how about this? Because its spend for you and has been for me, but I have also seen it. I have also seen it on me now: disreputable websites, etc, etc. Are on the right, that it is, it is its those who pollute.

If they are right and will do anything, I think that's the problem. Is we become certain our point of view, and so when I walk into an interview like you walked in with them. If you, we are certain that you are right and they were wrong. You didn't have to listen to them. You just need them to get you to say the things that you know, they're going to say and then you'll at that They don't say those things well, you're certain that that's who they are anyway right here. I am so what made you differ, Why didn't they happen to you? While I did go into interviewing men's rights activists assuming the worst of them, and I was hoping for them the lash out to say anti women, things too, maybe even threatened me, ah, because I was going and with an agenda, I was ah.

And I realized tat of the forty four people I interviewed for the red pill, that was now the story I gathered and I spent two two hours up to eight hours interviewing each individual person. And it was not the truth of the matter. Not what I set out to make a found out But I had over a hundred hours of footage and I do. Is that I went on probably the most beneficial life changing experience My life today, I'm thirty two, but it changed my life for the better hearing. Their perspective ends running about these issues and our influence may on relationship with now my husband of almost three months So I knew that there was a story here and if only I benefited from going on this journey, so be it by it. I wanted it. I wanted it to become a duck

Mary, because I wanted to share with everyone else. What I learned thinking at the time we your side would say allow interesting. I actually did think that, My feminist colleagues would appreciate the family made because it is about gender equality as just at the other gender men, and so I thought I would have support from my leftists feminists friends and when I started to show them the trailer in that, your video? I had four Kickstarter campaigners crowd funding from the protection. They told me that they do. Wanna promoted, because it didn't show men's rights activists being violence, they want to see them being violent in the video and I didn't have that they weren't violent so

I realized I wasn't- I wasn't gonna- have automatic support from the feminist community, but I ended up having support from people who support free speech when they realized that I am way indirectly was being silence, because I thought I had media I went from the left, like a gag order. Do not talk about this film. Don't make eye contact with this filmmaker. So in indirectly, you know it is, is a form of censure If you can't get your story out there through the problem a couple of questions. First, if

in watching you did a great service you kept it a video diary and You can see the struggle in you as you're as some of your worldview is, is starting to crumble a little bit and- and I can't help but think cause. I. I know people think this about me and I think this about people Just at an interview with somebody last week, and I said The interview with I dont know. If I can trust you, you know how did you, how did you beat back the doubt, of I'm being duped. I mean how these guys are they real? How did this happen? did you go through that

oh yeah and then sometimes I think the amorous archest duping me and giving such a strong pitch about what they. We then to convince me something that's actually just some out their theory that men are discriminated against and women are heavy advantage my journey and making the red pill was much more fees. Very high and very low spikes. An affair my show some of that, my struggle going through listen to human rights activists and process with my own family mindset out how to make sense of this. Where does this fit into my My ideology in an hour. Get the world I agree with everything he said for this at their still some kind of unsettling, and I don't know where that kind friend sway. Winter a lot of ups and downs in an office.

The downs were feeling too, feeling like from both sides. You know so feeling dupes by the men are attacked this thinking. Oh they're, just they're good. Sales manner there they're good, putting on an act in a show and putting on the rest. For the interview in and when I leaves, and then there are the miss haughtiness that I believe that they were and then the other laws that I had was feeling duped by feminists, because I started digging in the gender wage cap. More wanting to find the source of the actual study that they're using to say that women make Sony seven cents on installer and it was a huge, Let down to realise that it wasn't the way was being presented. By the mainstream media that women are being

discriminate against just based on gender and where we have the equal pay out for many decades ago. It's not legal to pay some online just based on their gender, but there is a gap in earnings. And so the more Dugan to realising that ok, women make different choices and motherhood and all that. And then less and less that's not less of a choice. It's not a none of these things are bad right and. If you know famous, where running women to earn just as much as man, it's not necessarily like. Stop that a lot of women would want to live right. I mean I like home, work, life, balance and No! I, like my leisure time I like to read. I liked him work out. You know it's. I don't wanna work, seventy hours, weak and so I realise that when I, when I start to see all these publications that used to trust in public figures that ISA trust talking about the wage gap in

Letting people assume that all women are being paid less than men it made me realize, that's that's abuse to women to their mind, because I seen teenage girls breakdown in terror Saying that they want to become a doctor, but they they don't if they're going to be paid zero dollars and seventy seven cents to a man's dollar, they want to become a female filmmaker, but but they'll never be able to be as good as as a male director, because thorough is, can be paid less than not given the same opportunities and it's so sad, to me, because I really do care about women and actually young girls feeling empowered that they can do and be anything they wanted to be. An So I started to see all these lies in these myths, as actually being abusive to women and girls ends and I wanted to to help women by saying. Actually, you can do it

anything you want to in the world. It just takes hard work and dealing with rejection, because we all deal with rejection and by I see so many young women, especially today, with forthwith feminism revelling in this victim. Integrity and letting it define everything that they do and preventing them, I'm succeeding in life because they believe everywhere they oh they're gonna be a victim and There are real victims than the world. There are many people that have horrible things happen to them, and it wasn't. There fall in addition, have happened to them by Europe possibility is how you react and taking herself up from. That and right now I think we're teaching feminism is teaching young women to the angry and give up.

Because the world is against them, patriarchy against them and. And in the Bay area, especially I see this brewing. I mean the anger is just palpable and an eye. I see many women who have a lot of potential not living up to it because they believe they are born of victim, so help me. Oh let's say I M a feminist. I am you five years ago to what end to what end with these organizations. Why would they do that, but makes no sense? Why would they victimize women and keep them down to what end? I think.

Any movement needs a common enemy and I think modern feminism has identified men as the enemy. And when they say there, the movement for gender equality, if you believe in gender equality should be a feminist, I dont believe there truly for both the genders. Having equal treatment and justice and and being treated fairly with respect because they are willing to step on men in their issues in the process and just brush over all of them or blame men as the problem of those issues which threaten me? We talk about the common sense. Sanction to hearing about men's issues. Is that whilst the fall to the patriarchy and If there are things going on with men, its men's fault, because men have old power, they have all the privilege. So it's there

months, ability to take care of their own if they really do have issues with a lot of feminist stone. Believe men have issues. But they blame it on then. So, therefore, it's not our problem deal with so in that way, I don't see feminism as the one and only movement for gender equality? If your demonizing one half of the population saying that the fault of their own problems and the other half it's not problem the deal, but then, when you do trade It was like dreadful movie trade. To educate people on what our men Issues like people can in stuff laundry list of them. They can think of few women's issues off the top of their head, because they ve been repeated it so much in the media and one of those first issues that most people would say as wage gap which I found I was met, so there's an information gap on what man's issues and

I do see silencing taken place and deep. Forming in trying to keep this. Other half a narrative, it just erased from history or our current day, politics. So frightening statement. Do you read you just said erased from history? Do you believe that there was a that's terrifying? Isn't it It happening all the time, because I see rewriting of history and follow me her present day ten fifty years from now, this history right now, what's really going on today is being rewritten in the moment by the media by Wikipedia pages by I mean

I mean I know, I mean that the tea party in two thousand ten was smeared and everything else and there's some crazy people in everything else like there is a, but in the year in pictures in Time magazine, not one photograph in two thousand ten house at possible might hear glow. Not one photograph? How do you not put when you're doing a year when reveal? How do you not cover that

Unless you are writing for future generations and you're erasing in real time when you're talking about the average person does the average person have a chance to escape they dont. Have your can have Bill again it wouldn't have card If you will- and I wouldn't wish a car crash on anybody- Do they get out? I really don't know because it took me so long with so much research and

The willingness to, if it do you find out I'm wrong to accept that so scary Gazelle That was a harper. Was you? Could you research, but still you're you're, looking at it with blinders on wanting to find what supports your current interviews. But if going in really doing research it with being willing to have your mind changed if you find evidence, facts that contradict your current believes. What does that take to do that? It's a scam, best thing. I read Carl Sagan in ninety five I think and recovering alcoholic was at the bottom during my recovery- and I realized- I don't believe in God, because I know God I believe in God, because somebody told me so

I'm really actually an agnostic. I took all These things- and I I wouldn't except anything until I knew. Why I knew- and this Gary thing is at the beginning of that is you, don't know what you're gonna find you don't who you're going to be at the end of it and your PA, He sure that there are going to be some is that you have to embrace that don't want to embrace its deep work, sucking at the shadow site. It's like an it to a vote. Messy closet? You just pushed you know everything and that you don't want to see out and about cuz it you out that this message is put in a closet, shut the door and then say ten years later you're moving. Something and you you gotta go through the stuff. You don't necessarily one.

People watching you look through your past and and look through. All the stuff that you haven't wanna to look out on a daily basis because you can get it by you can't get through the day that that's the problem with what I went through in this three and a half year long journey of making the right pill was in. I am a hermit am insurer, I am a very small network of friends and family, but I ultimately trust to no end but I am a very private person, and so I able to do that deep work and explain to my mom or my boyfriend at the time who became a husband, that I was challenging my views and that was really scary, Cosette and no, if they were going to accept me for changing- and I think, a lot of people don't change because

they don't want to lose their network or their place in life, the job their family support- and I think this with a car crash is necessary. I had soon you write to me this week who had a car crash. Ed, I understand what you're trying to do and what will translate, but I dont think any of this will work until every the hits their own bottom and if the bottoms so scary. Now me, what is our bottom as a nation? What's our bottom, I hope it's not too much further I think, ultimately, what we all want is freedom to be who we are. Of course, we have to look at in the system and how it

work for everyone. Although its impasse, I think it's impossible to have a system that works for How many million people are in this country and boat, but we have to continue trying to do best and thinking of everyone, but we also have to teach people to be accountable and responsible for their actions, and that I mean it's, it is. Life is hard work in our bed, but also to make something of yourself is really hard work and these new discuss

is for you. I don't know. I guess I went through such a transformation. I feel like I'm starting with a blank slate again and playing a canvas, and I don't know you don't know. What's holding what's new or just what's clarified yeah I mean I grew up, very evangelical Christian and in that, where I was kind of in a bubble, entire spout, eighteen, nineteen and then right. When I was leaving the church, I became a radical, feminist and spent the next here. Ten years working on those issues were role dude, church play in pushing you that direction if any. Well it s actually, because that's when I left the church, humanist became a feminist. What I was really researching was sexual part

x, and so I think the growing up in the church and having that be a taboo topic that you can't talk now and it's you I was very modest growing up in and still there was a change for the better Have you, but then I saw a lot of my girlfriends, not locking what they preached and as a lot of just conference in mind getting abortions and in it you start to question. You know it crashed his greatest followers suck. Sometimes yeah, and so I have was just really and so also during this time, as I moved to allay at eighteen, that really was a shock to the system because I was la and I was a struggling actress, and so I saw some of the worst parts of the film

story ends that's what made me a feminist. I think I think at least say for young women does breed suddenness, because you do. Ship on your shoulder in you. You are treated in a way, that's very uncomfortable, and not what you want you as a feminist. How do they reconcile that Hollywood is left as they can and yet it is a sad ass, a pool of dirt bags gosh as long as you have no yea active, we'll Holly. It's different world is not like any other industry There are no rules really I mean, if you're a filmmaker with money, and you want to make a film you can cast, whoever you wish to cast ends affair, it's a beautiful woman that you would really like to be with, and she says I will sleep with you if you gimme that role,

it happens all the time it really does so. The exchange of power- And this is something I learned from the Red Pell that that gender issues are not apples. Apples, apples and oranges mean. Men's power really is and in succession industry in and wealth and connections that they have her praise and respected games like a musician aiming up EU wealthy, restart but he gets the recognition and praise for his town so women seek to marry up, which is called Hyper gimme, and that usually means and to wealth and status and men, really do value Pritchett women's beauty, and so what I from there at Pelon and men's access activists like. Is there anything but nature going on with that.

Men are very visual, I mean which star, which is very visual, There are anything but now it sure maybe it's me. We have nurture on this that women look to marry I mean guys are looking to marry up, who here you're not a meme is. There is anything but nature happening there. Think there could be societal influences I think we can also do play at their beauty because they know that they can get more attention and road treated by the way. I see it all the time with chivalry still does exist and feminists are not complaining about that, but I on a plane to come here and sob. Pretty. Terry Woman, who had a overhead bag, a man God from her from therefore her and I thought that was wonderful And, yes, you could say, while in a manner

taller stronger, more fed and therefore they should do that. But there are plenty of as you are taller stronger, as women, but they saw go out of their way to open the door and in November. I think it's wonderful. We are different feminist, don't you don't think? That's ok, end, don't say what you just said: we are different. We are different and that's what I learned from their power, because I I think, and away when I was a feminist. I really did hope. Fern androgynous society, all right. I know I'd be, but I had it formation in, I think. Especially young women. They go through this phase because they get unwanted sexual tension and when you go through that, there paralyzing women are dealing with. One is unwanted: sexual tenderness, especially fear a woman who intervened early or an r r industry. That's male dominated than you can feel on edge and, like you always have a thread around,

so a lot of women become feminist. Matter or have in a horrible experience has not happened in them. That's why a lot of people activists as they have something personal happening by it. I it another way that I think women, Sorry, if this is off limits, not out, nothing has failed. Women are reminded valleys of child bearing age Women are reminded on a monthly basis how much they heaping woman- and You know, I think, a lot. I think men are reminded on a monthly basis to be they in I think there are women. Whenever they experience, something that they know the average guy doesn't have to deal with immediately its reaffirming whether offenders and why we live in a picture of and that women are kept

down and men. How are the privilege by women, don't see what men go through you know and as the learning about men's issues when I found how many men lose their children and a custody battle. I think, mother would think that's the ultimate price to that that is unjust. If you lost luggage chance, don't have, it do not have a chance. I am a divorced man and when I got sober, my wife and I divorced and he wanted the children. Not a prayer. Unless I was willing to go and just rag her through court and just destroy and in her case lie- I mean it was just given. You know. No, because a mother is amiss

and then send this groups to lobby to keep it that way, that women have the advantage and custody battles, and I I come from a divorced family. My parents separated when I was for divorce. When I was six, we have fifty slash fifty split custody And they did at the best way possible, and there are you not have like a blueprint of the I swear to have shared custody, and so they all they followed all the best ways to do it and it worked out and of course I wish I had parents said say together the whole lives and I think it's wonderful when people do have parents together forever and I do think family, and this is Spencer. I pills really so I don't talk about. I don't talk about this in the red pill, but since making the film I I do feel like I've become a family and marriage.

I recently got married and I I do think that right now at least what I'm saying in the far left circles is wanting to break down the family, the unit and and. A lot of research that I've, seen and heard from thence rights activists talks about the danger of children raised by single mothers and not having present father figure and you this love to say, look at all the ills and the world's we have mass shooters than we have in all the prisons are full of men and to get the exact numbers. Mournful gives great down on this bed at something like ninety percent of inmates of male inmates didn't have a present father

and the mass shooters, almost all of them in her present father serial killers, the same thing with serial killers. Different though it's it's, not just not having present father but having a piece of mother, and so you know, and when feminist say that women it dont, have any power whose raising the next, penetration whose around kids, the most it is women and win women abuse that power. There are real consequences for those by the children who who grew up with abuses, teachers were nuns or mothers babysitters. So. Were honest together is what I am saying is that we all have to look at our role and what we provide to society and make sure we do our best.

look? I've ever really shared all this before I do a lot of work for rum women shelters, because my because my son. And I I talk growing up in an abusive family. There wasn't my dad my dad was abused. And my mother not to me somehow I escaped this, but my sisters was she was. She grew up in that you know she came to. Her prime and twentys in the nineteen sixties and early seventies, and it was a confusing Timon She was at home. Is that that wasn't really her and it was system? He took it out on my sisters,

because she saw them what she couldn't be and she took it out in my on my father on away. But people who never think of that in its shameful it shameful for a man to be abused by a woman, some our another and their weak in their pathetic and they're. Not my father was abused by his father, his father by his father and my father. I said I'm gonna break the chain and he did he never abused us. Instead, he became his mother.

And he married at Abuser- and I dont understand why abuse is my sisters. Are the greatest people I've ever and there in their fifties and Sixtys now and they are still trying to find their value. There still trying to convince themselves that they're, they're okay, there could their whole their complete its awful it's awful. What happens to people. But my father was the same way on his death bed, you know, he was thinking the same things. I was the only one in the family he would tell this too. I can't we just

Lay our swords down and just see the pain of this, no matter who it is an just just say this. This has to stop. This has to stop and even have combined, action to some degree on the abusers to say what is what inside of you, that's doing this How are you missing that these are eager children? This is your house it's. This is your wife. What happened what's broken? We can have that conversation. I've really discovered in the last ten years. I don't want to live in a world full of conservatives.

And I don't want to live in a world full of liberals went to live with people and, if all of the liver, and generally speaking, the liberals are the creative, the art, the beauty of the world Conservatives are the bean counters. We need each other. We have to have each other just like men and women we need each other and we are different and there's nothing wrong with that in ITALY. The me to movement. There's no one that could feel as a man more straw, how about that because of where I come from, but why does it have to be

a judge, jury and executioner as a mob. How do we change this? We need all the information and if people can see it all and will see how we can find common ground that we can't Tipp the scales so far that one group is being uplifted. The others silence women who do abuse feel justified in abusing because they have been told that the world is concerned. They felt abused their whole life. So that's what keeps the cycle of abuse going? People, don't you

Feel when you lash out it's because you feel invisible, you feel like nobody's listening to you. You feel like it's just you all alone and they ve pushed and pushed and pushed and pushed how Is the society where you are There on the train or you're, not on both sides. That is saying, shot up you're wrong, you're worthless, I dont need to actually listened to you, I'm just gonna call. You horrible names, everybody feeling, especially with tech. The way it's coming, I dont even know as a human being, if I'm gonna be worth anything in ten years, losing value too

other we're? Losing word we're losing value to the system were chest wheat, feeble feel, like invisible- and it's just we're just grist to the mill I think a new site here, never but everywhere. That goes, but there's been studies that have been done. That arms. Acts of how many people we can really have in our life is about a hundred two hundred people that you can really know as your family, your friends, your loved ones, but also a clean says and business colleagues, so spot, a hundred people as about the size, my wedding, so that's! You know that those are the people. Feel like a really now, and they know me anything or a hundred at a wedding

don't. They were invited by somebody else, the family so Now we have the internet, the digital age, and I probably interacts more people online or they here from me. I hear from them online. Then people that came to my wedding, that are my hundred closest people, my life. But I have all this out here on the internet, videos and watching a newsfeeds and everything I think Amy what's happening is the only way to keep track of of those. Thousands, hundreds of thousands of of people that are talking

and to your ears throughout the day, is to label them. You have two compartmentalize groups in order to deal with all his chatter. That's going on mine. So I see this often and comment forums where someone may write one or two sentences, and then the next communist saying. Oh so we're Communist Rosa you're. Whenever we're running too compartmentalize all these people and, I think, that's We're losing the humanity right now and lace, hey I may be in winter, but right now I think, were world Seeing this human interaction in the broidery that we're all in this together thy that we assume

the best and each other before, if you ever proved otherwise I think, though, the labeling and throwing out epithets at people to humanize or to humanize them. I may have been called whore. Things, which none of them are true, had only one a repeat them. I they wanted to this fight. You know it's the truth, Let them identifying your enemy and then strengthening your group. If you have a common enemy- and I don't see that as the

The place we should move towards. So I think that people who come from my point of view, we believe in the constitution, we believe in the bill of rights. We believe the bill of rights is inspired, it just hasn't been used You know everything after the first. Ten really is really. I to spell this out for you? Yes, blacks can vote in their people to really have to spell it out to you. Yes, women are our people and they can vote to its every. First ten they have

Everything else is a reiteration of god you're that stupid. I have to say it again with an exception. Couple of things people see marxist feminists, if you're postmodern kind of feminist. They see people who are hiding, saying one thing and doing another, and I mean saying no, no, no, I'm not a radical when they a radical and because we have to put everybody in buckets Dont, know who's? Who is kind of like the difference between Islam and an Islamist missed after problem with Islam and Islamist? I do because they want the state to impose Sharia law and live to the doctrines what you can't live here in this country. You can't because

the law of the land is the constitution, a bill of Rights, Islam Telephone. How do you, how is someone I hate this term on my side, but somebody who's coming to it from a. I think the country is really screwed up and I think the country was screwed up under George double Bush and Bill Clinton and George W Bush and that's the last time I was really aware I was he had under Ronald Reagan It's been screwed up for a long long time. I want transparency. I want justice, I went to equal justice and yet there these people, who want to destroy that

But whether you're a Nazi or of Postmodernism Marxist, how do we see? rate from each other. How do we know who's? Who and how do we should we be afraid of people who are either in hiding and been wearing. Cloak of some charitable some, you know wonderful thing or or just out now open, saying now- We get along with those people, oh man, I mean ok, I think there are people with ideas, thundered interests in this country. I Those radicalism are a minority.

For the most part or contain number on that they get, will tell you after you. You were first. And I would say on both sides. Look at as a football field hundred yards have help so like the ends on each side so Nazis, inside and in the radical, like one communism kind of far left for the. For this Yes, that's not the american system, the european system, but for this he s getting I'd, say it's less than two percent wow on either side yeah two percent himself. Well, I thought I was being generous, saying: temperature. Each side. I think it's less. On the on the right I put Nazis cause or national socialists over into a totalitarian kind of Rome, and I don't put all dammit.

That's on that side either, but just to be just to be, sure I you know I like broke a ten percent. There might be a little more a little ass here and there two percent. Then why do we feel their everywhere, causing them get coverage? I mean So I put it at two percent because eight there are so many people who are a political that do not. I engage in anything that we ve been talking about. How can two per cent of the population silence what some people would take when ideas or traditional ideas and I'm not talking about gay marriage and you're, saying hey the countries not that bad. They have the time they have.

The will they have the time most people they just one, have families and want to have vacations. They want to go to soccer games, they don't they're, not participating in Antifa. But I am in the Bay area and there are a lot of people who are engaged with Anti FA and including college professors. So I know it's there. There is a lot of that, but I think it's it's in the major cities that are on the university campuses and they get a lot of press what's coming our way because of the universities, it's different than when you went to school here the thing my husband I both didn't go to college. Oh, my gosh you're, one of the uneducated masses ass. I thought that

happen on the right. And I'm I'm glad I didn't go to college, I mean reason I made that choices, because I want to go in the film industry and you don't mean it agreed to get in there, but I buy it. I what's happening on the campuses them in my area of expertise and gender politics about that's what really speak on by second way, feminism in the late sixties generally early seventies did monopolize the gender discussion in universities and have continued sense and that hasn't changed. And now, if you do, one percent alternate, alternate ideas on gender politics- and I mean especially the lastly, it was three years gender theory. As a really become less, mind boggling, I mean there's something like seventy four

There is now a hundred, maybe two under lady now out to have an Italian, that's the high having that's. If your you know, that's really pushing it, I mean in and the ones many reasons. Ella feminism was feebly and hypocrisy, the aid gendered dialogue when talking about who are victims and perpetrators and As in the me two Movement United, if, if it's just people who are victims who are during their story and people are feeling compassion for them are wanting to find justice for what happened to them. I think the me to movement is is great if it inspired alleged victims to go to enforcement where I have issue is going to social media and basically taking down someone's reputation. With allegations before there is ever due process, but

So that the dialogue around the tomb of men is overly gendered, its women are the silence breakers Time magazine said that the silence breakers of me to movement was the people of the year and twenty seventeen, but it's its women are finally sitting up against men, and but isn't that the army we just talked about this kind of with abuse, but isn't that Isn't that generally the case as well actual brassiere insult or here's where it gets interesting, because The research around gender is mostly advocacy studies there to do the research too to prove their point of what they want to say a stroll. I mean they're funded by feminist organisations for the most part. So the advocacy research could say

You know. X amount of women are sexually harassed in the workplace where they get. And their surveys is with creative wording. Saying have you ever felt comfortable by a male colleagues from you could be uncomfortable because see where there's a rape epidemic on campuses near you. The way this wording is like. I think I've been raped three times on the way to work today, hits very broad and Unwanted sexual advances can just be I sang had you wanna get dinner this weekend. Doing you know, so the danish game, how it's always been as that men approach women and basically make the offer yes or no. Would you like the sea where this could go in the woman is the one that decides, which I too now think that's very privileged position to be in as the decider of whereas men have to ask yeah have the risk so

oh that's when is this fact asian marry, you said once a month, he reminded me every time a guy has to go out and asked it. We're reminded how much we ate being a man because a site I'm gotta, get reject because you just odds. None but I got to ask ten and maybe one will say a dinner with you and the rest are going to look at you like. Are you I mean look at yourself really. Yeah, it's horrible yeah, and now, as I understand it, because I've been trying to understand it, but naturally a woman wouldn't understand the struggle that is so. In a white women, because of how the dating game is play. It. Women are more at risk to have eat awesome. Some kind of unwanted advances and and are more likely to be accused of being

creepy or of crossing the line or something because they are the ones to approach? So you know that dialogue, and they surveys is very vague that can lead to more women, saying that they have had have been her asked ourselves it or something like that, so in two thousand and twelve the CDC chain? their surveys to include it, so it was their sexual violence survey they change the wording of the survey to include made to penetrate, as as as rape made to penetrate, whereas before they only had have, has someone forcibly penetrated you which can only be done to women? so made to penetrate, was added Sir labour

everything about it, you could also be a man whose, firstly, penetrate bed so when they they added made to penetrate to the survey in that year or two thousand twelve for that that twelve month period point four million women had reported that they been rate one point: seven million men had reported they'd been raped because of made to penetrate. So this is where feminism, wasn't working to include gender neutral, dialogue and relief figuring out you know what what is going on for people in this country in and who is being assaulted or abused, because you know think about white men can go through that, is different than what a woman can go through. And you know I learned about so many different men's issues that I do now consider rights issues.

Our men's rights issues, but they were Defined as gender rights under feminism because it and affect women such as, do you think it's a right to know your parent. Only men would have option of not knowing their apparent because women INA Uber, the baby? You know your apparent. But there are many men who never know that they have a child out. There is progeny out there in the lack of reproductive rights, for men is not addressed under feminism, and you know it I think that's a shame, because I think there are so many men that really do care about their children and that there have been women who adopted there there were unmarried mother, Father, unmarried and the woman had the baby adopted the baby away when the father

on it to be apparent and was willing to have the child just himself to raise and she adopted the child away, and we shall listen. The rental movie, many of those stories and I never learned about that when I was for ten years a radical feminist never learned about these issues. So You know I just sing the major problem right now, as we were, giving a microphone to war, side of. What's going on for for the genders, and I you know no care about women's issues and impairing on girls, and I still do think that their women's issues that need to be fought for, but I know a lot of organisations with a lot of funding are doing that work, and so I'm just trying to you know at- discussion, though many look at all

Mama seen you on tv, in Australia and everywhere else and I've seen how your treated now hand. I remember when I was in South Africa. I did an interview and they hated my guts, and I remembered I may assist us as I kicked in the face, and I like how do you have I met even in your country and on the other side of the planet? How do you hate me this much and it was almost like there was a you know You know and alert that went out that said aid. This is what's happening,

see you in these interviews and saw one where the guy women are the guy said. Well, did you ask this yet in the movie You ever did they say this? It's in the movie. What did you show this? Yet it's in the movie, and yet they called that movie, the most bigoted movie I think of all time or something like that they just smeared it and you without any knowledge. Is there any doubt in your mind if this was rivers. If you were somebody, was a conservative filmmaker and you came and decided you were a feminist. I haven't heard you really bad, feminism or we know who said there's is the,

you're not like vitriolic about it, any, You would be on the today show and everything else you'd be very famous today, as opposed to city, Sitting here with a federal yea, if I made It was exactly the reverse, you started out conservative and now you were saying, I'm not a concern. I'm a feminist. I mean I did see an article come out shortly after the red pill started getting a lot of positive. Ants reviews and one awards and things like that, There was an article that came out saying I was immense rights activists and now in the feminist and here's. Why and it was of course published by anonymous. Like an anonymous person. They.

Show their name or identity, and it was just so I mean I win and reading at thinking are undergoing given them, then I fear that army they really did got whose transformation, but I now, knowing everything I know about when I was a feminist, learn, Bowman's issues, I'd find it hard to believe you would go from immense rights activists to a feminist it, but I was willing to you know red and consider, and it was just it was only, Like they took my story and just reverse genders and if it it didn't accurately fly to feminist because the men's Lovin is, is not the opposite of feminism. It's I'm in their very different, so oh yeah. If I were a conservative saying, I have now become liberal. No, not liberal a feminist, our feminist, if you Where, if you were a liberal feminist, if you were.

You wouldn't be. Would you be you know how they treat somebody now as a feminist that says, wait a minute wait a minute. I dont think that this is all bad over here. To think. Do you see the plight of conservatives at all in a different light with the media. I do think that they're, the ones it identifies being silenced right now. See a way of opening that sea way of piercing that two or two where we can have, dialogue on a mass scale. I think our cash Try out this side that I don't know if they really moves up. Ok, first wounded! in part of the reason why people on the left,

don't wanna debate. Conservatives is what it's when they bring up religion and their beliefs, because that's kind of ie there there's not many places you can go from there if you just believe that and that's your basis how you vote on everything. Then you've lost the liberal atheist in and they're like what? Where can we go from here? But I think if conservatives only kept their argument to science, fair kind of arguments and left their faith out entirely if they could then maybe we could have debates on a stage that that go somewhere and that our progress

make it happen, I'm not sure I have ensured. I should in this way I can't prove God, and I can't prove my relationship caught at all, and I don't mean good friend of mine, a pendulum. I have several Dave Reuben good friend of mine. I have several friends were eight years. That's never! problem never from its it's really. Why I'm a libertarian in a constitutional list. I can live next door to you. I can live next door to anyone and happily and be cool. Eight neighbours, if they're not to tell me how to live my life, and I am not trying to tell you to live your life when it

Comes to God, I don't expect you to believe me, but if I get to a place to where I say well, it's because I feel this way about God. Then you have to say. I can understand that there are some things that I feel too, or I think Do that I can't really just lock it down into something so I'll give you that, and you give me mine and I'm not gonna we're not gonna. Argue about. God. You know I mean, but I dont think I should. I don't think I should have to God. For me, God propels me, but this the same with by either his friends and I dont know how they do it and they don't know how I do it. It doesn't matter it does it works. So why do we have to so? I think there are many conservatives who

and when you, when you dig to the bottom of, why do they have these political beliefs? It would will they come down to their faith, and I think for liberals you dig down at the bottom of their beliefs. It probably would look like something like Marxism, so I can serve is, would want to analyze that indeed equal? Why do you believe that matter? of women and have then through all throughout history, in whatever blacks and in all this law, digging the land sea if that holds water and if that's legitimate or tat, can challenge you on your foundation of all of your beliefs by convincing at Marxism is not accurate, so I think, that's where liberals you know Don't get thee, get out jail, free card by saying it

to make it. They wouldn't even call it a faith, they don't think of it as religion, although maybe you could say that it is based on religion, sometimes views, we ask you, this is the only place I would go to on God, I would just ask you, and I dont know what it is for others. The only thing we're. God plays a role, but I could explain why it's important and if its, not God for you, you have to find something else, but that our rights come from God, that removes those rights from the table. I can never silence you because I dont create them. I don't I dont rule over them. I can't touch them. Neither can you if you want to say in a rights, come from the trees or whatever comes from doesn't matter, but why Man is online with those rights than man can say. You know what for the best,

but the best reasons here we got all come together. I have to silence those people. Then it all starts to fall apart. We to get man out of the rights business and that's an that's what our founders color they struggled with, have ok aware, whose, whose printing uprights and if we understand that that right is really broad. You know it's not. Daughter was when she was Fordham issue, came to me. She said dad. Why are you so antigay, marriage and unlike talking about. I don't even talk about that, except in a positive way, I'm for gay marriage when talking about and but she had been really so worked at college and I said, listen. Here's pierce my stance. I have no right to tell you who to vary and who not to marry you

I have no right to tell me who to Marian who not to marry. There are complex. Since that will come from this, that we should at least talk about and think about, but my to get into your life. I have none right to get into my faith. You have done. Long as we're not telling each other. What we have to do is government, even in of the government, and for you know it Marriage, the marriage license was started to make sure that the races stayed separate my Abraham, Lincoln George Washington have marriage license. You want to get married so we get married, do it. I don't care, had thing to do with the state marriage license came and because we have to make sure that we keep the races pure Then? The blood tests came in during eugenics

sure that we don't have undesirables in the line this craziness, why? Why do we hold these things up like their sacred there, They were started for really bad reasons control. I have wondered leading up to this meeting because I understand a libertarian, so I guess I would be the opposite exciting. I do far more in this day shawl he I will wanting social services and and programmes to help the Tokyo, energy out, the everybody thinks is left or right, not to tell a terrorism. I don't care if it's real just to tell totalitarianism, communism. You know a ran China, it doesn't matter complete control in the states. Hands this site is anarchy this

was the american idea, anarchy and complete. Control the king was over here? So they dead. How do we develop where we give? Never before done the people, the power and The reading, not Adam Smith, wealth of nations, which have cod people who read wealth of patients that's where capitalism really comes from, you have the two volume book you have to he'd volume, one which is moral, sentiments, moral, sentiment says if you're going to do capitalism, you better have yourself self? As a society together, because the visible hand of the market will create beauty or ugliness, and poison but it will be up to you as individual, because you are the market, you want porn. You want rape, please you or whatever. It is oh here produce it, for you.

Because of who you are. A volume one is make sure you know who you are when you start capitalism. Second, his wealth of nations do nations become prosperous, so we took that idea and said article confederation. We just wanted far enough from anarchy. Well, Wasn't far enough away, so we try it again, seven eighty nine. We we say forget: George Washington was First president, there was another president before just a different country We started again and this time you put the constitution in We brought it a little farther back from anarchy We ve slowly been drifting, this direction and that's why nobody is talking about its amazed. To me: Brok, Obama scared the live in bad crap out of half of the country, gay

because we saw guy who he was a marxist. He was a marxist. Couldn't say that before, as that was racist, but now that everybody saying I'm a socialist marxist now, apparently it's ok, but that's what we felt you could, being Jeremiah Rights church you couldn't be, you couldn't be in an end, Eve in NAM, it's a social justice term out of South America collective salvation. I care what it's called. You couldn't believe in that and even the american system. You just can't see we were scared to death. Kay said a good feeling. So what happens? We then on an electric. I who scarce the other half of the country to death and me

all of us to death. Ok, this. The point that we should take from this is we shouldn't have been frightened. You shouldn't be frightened they have too much power, because no president should be able to make us this frightened Do it in your own town? I have no problem. San Francisco, I think, is the most beautiful town in America. It is the most beautiful city in America BAR none. I think it's bad crap crazy but you should have the right to do that. That's your town, do it the state I'd never argued against universal health care with Romney up in Massachusetts, we're supposed to be little laboratories, fifty lit laboratories, if it works, you dont think Texans you're gonna do it course they will.

Just see what works and if it, if it works for a group of people, that's and for them to do over there. Why can we? if each other alone not steal from each other. Yell at each other, what can we just leave each other alone with respect. Zella rabbit renting a madman, I know of no well. I'm gonna, hoping we wouldn't go here, but I wanna go. Ask is. It does sound like you're you're for live and let live and don't tell me what to do it and enduring regulate everything in and let the market work itself. Alan capitalism does let people based your work ethic strive to be. Whenever you want to be in real cap, women

when capital were crony capitalism now and have been for a long time. So I guess the left minded part of me is wondering what about abortion. Abortion is, I think the easiest thing to answer. And it is amazing to me that we do have this conversation. Is that a baby if you believe that is a baby, that a foetus is a baby, then I have to stand for the right to not execute the most innocent. I am also against the death penalty, so that is that China, that's that girls choice being taken

gay, the little girl or the little boy. If you don't believe it's a baby, we should talk about science, but you don't have a right. I dont have a right to kill someone now, if you do, if you on, Please don't believe, that's a baby, then we, at a place to wear okay. Well, we have to figure out a way round that how do we deal with that? We, some of us it's it's the left doesn't understand, bake it really violent. I want you to know that I think the worst in people do is meaning the signs and end in protest, the women that are going in there traumatized enough. So I don't agree with that.

But if you really truly believed that there was a country that was doing a whole, a cost. Of fifty million children, wouldn't you be, a horrible human being, if you didn't say something if you didn't stand, If you really believed that I think we're, I think people who are pro if our amazing that they haven't gotten violent cause, I have to tell you if I were in germany- and I knew about that, and we had guns I'd, be the first want to go. Let's go shot, those damn ovens down, but we don't cause we're Americans, we respect each other. I think where the latin and

feminist women who stand with plan parenthood stand this is that the I the mothers, the woman. Her rights should supersede whatever the potential is of this. The fetus till win Well and that's where in other recent Roby Way, that's what what's been fight is white length of Of the term, is it okay before it's not okay, you know Peter singer. Peter singer is the chair of ethics at Princeton, brilliant guy really impacts price. You don't know who yet he has come out and said that we should be able to a bore to child up to two years after birth? extreme is ass. He later apologized and said I should put a time limit on it, because

is only when a child realises that there is a tomorrow that they become a person. Oh, my chair of ethics. Look him up so that the I mean don't think anybody believes that you know the end and I don't even know if he is doing more than just theory. You know to me But partial birth Orson, all of that stuff The line just keeps getting changed, is going the opposite direction, because you know it was when the child is viable. Well, medicine is making the. Held viable earlier and earlier so are they becoming children earlier in earlier, or are we just seeing it differently? I'm not trying to I'm not trying to win here. I know you're you're in and I've been thinking a lot about this issue, the last there is now that I try to read

it an and understand both sides and all sides. I saw it obviously, this anything, that's a political topic. It's because there is a grey area in I if there's something that all people agree on, which is that. Child abuse is wrong, then it's not a political issue where one side of standing up for it and against it by anything. That's a political issue, that there is a grey area and that's why people take sides. So I mean I did some research into baby, farming which was in the UK and England's. Have you heard of it's really it's been another thing. That's been, I think, erased. History. What is baby farming baby farming was back when Abortion was illegal and I think it was the seventeen honey It's in England, O women who was also frowned upon to be unmarried and pregnant. So when would go on an extended vacation for nine months.

And visited like a nursing home kind of thing, where these, what they were called nurses would take them for instance, in care for them for the rest of her childhood into adulthood eyes, so that the mothers would pay. In our fee and then leave and never have any contact again, so some women who are running these nursing homes started to abuse the children but, to the extent of actually murdering the children. Are they realise that it would be a financial incentives to eat, have more space in the house. A few sure, so I mean just horrible stories strangulation and poisoning we have the lead in this country with you, no one used to have institutions where people were put away and yeah. I mean portable so- and I only stumbled across this story, because I was looking into the worst serial killers

time when I was thinking out, genome armed men, all the worse people in the world, and I came across a meal dire who killed over three hundred children and she was the nurses running a baby farm, so they buried the infant corpses off proud, London and different small towns and. And they only discovered it when they found Retreat Bali's bones, but they also found just that she had it with parts and Emily was just horrible, so she given the death penalty, but So when I learn about that, I'm thing I don't think that would happen today that we have that kind of situation. If women were having children, unwanted but

but I do wonder what would happen for all those women who find that their pregnant and and dont want the child's. Would they be harming themselves where we go back to the co hangar days So when chemicals, I think this is a great discussion. Love to continue get your opinion on a those kind of places do exist still all over the world. I mean you don't go to Russia. Gotta Haiti mean we rescue children, part of my charitable arm. We rescue children out of the sex slave industry and there are bogus bo orphanages that are just their pimps. So it's horrible. You know you did say one thing that their body parts infringes. We do have that

they too and that's plan parenthood selling body parts which is horrific. However, if you look at the stats that show the nome I have an adopted son. The number of people that want children is off the choice earth and we don't even France, one thing I mean consistent on any bothers me in the reverse They probably would bother you. It's really bothers me. I believe these are children but in rape and incest. I could not look at my daughter if that was going to destroy her and she's has to relive that rape over and over again, I couldn't do it to my own daughter. So how could I possibly say that for somebody else. In a bothers me because I'm in conflict

I do believe that a child with which one- and so it's You know, I've come to this place and its uncomfortable in and hypocritical, but I've come to this place. Where I have to choose the mother, because of the scarring that she took on at no choice of her own and that bothers me, but we are now starting to celebrate. Abortion used to be rare, safe, legal and, for a reason, I mean, if you ever read Victor he, those lay miserable. Now I haven't Kay unless you really want to be really depressed, and you have time to read. Twelve thousand pages dealt the summary. Everybody entities miserable and one of the characters, seventeen- and she is beautiful- section,

where she falls in love with his boy. They think the she thinks you're gonna be together forever, but he's not really interested in her, and She gets pregnant. He goes away. She has told him yet he says I'm coming back. He never comes back now because its France. Now she's with a child, so she's immediately a whore. She's mediately, all of these horrible things, and she has to give the church EL to somebody else who will care while she works to take care of the child. Guy is a lot, What are the story, but that's in a nutshell,. We know in this country that there have been people who would would do horrible things to their own children. Even to me, you know even the nicest of them just. I disown you because you're pregnant. They had to go away on a baby farm person

the stigma anymore. It's just now the stigma anymore so were fighting, for Fighting against some things. That society is changed its not that way anymore, and I. The thinking about where do we go from here on right. Now I feel like we need to keep abortion illegal. But we do our best to limit and prevent that situation from happening, and I do think potted some factors that are affecting the abortions. I do how then Arthur and I'm gonna sound, so traditional and were his trait last year, but I do think from security is. Ah you know it's really has gone through the roof, unchecked and doesn't allow borders, and

and so in other that increases risk. Also, women getting married later in life, so basically having more years said they are single and dating, and therefore then They think once here you're with the person that you want to be with for the rest of your life. You when it immediately jumped to an abortion if it was unplanned youth, if he did want children in your life than you would think. Ok, whilst sooner than later now but but there are women who are married and dont want the fifth child, and then they go haven't abortions when that happens, law to ah though I mean women's role in society- has completely changed since the fifty is in and then because the second wave of feminism in this season and crushing gender roles and mothers and you know in our turn, and now the gate, how do we deal with basically increasing half

the population into the workforce and also into colleges, and so we are seeing you know men feeling like they don't have anything to contribute to a woman's life any more than we all have been here once I don't need a man and say that is proud thing, because if they are able to provide for themselves and can obviously have a child without a man in the picture. A lot of men that are lost and failure to launch, and so gender relations, her are having issues in that area. By with women and sex, I I think you know this is a part of our religious history that I I feel like was. Going like on the right track with knowing necessary, the benefits?

First society from a saint scientific kind of standpoint I sold back when I would. I went her christian schools in my freshman freshman year of school. And we were told to like to have you needs together, like he had a penny in between them in and- We had a lot different, weird roles about not walking with Spain, your hips too much and always the Bible with bibles, with apart from any man, and so I think, That at that actually did a lot of good for My upbringing was that modest, kind of way in life in relationships, and so I did wait a long time until a certain sexual relationships and thank God, because a fine I've. Never. Abortion. I am very glad of never had to make that decision and I think if I did have an unplanned pray

see when I was in my early twenties, I probably would have had an abortion not easily now today, so glad I never had to go through, and I think I would have regret- if I went through it. Ah, if iron abortion, but I think you know, went one time sure we overturn Roby waiter, define defined plan parenthood and all these issues. I think we also need to talk about the before in the after, so provide getting women from getting into that position with sexual education. And I think- honesty, obviously such a crazy, I mean things that women are rang in his days it's and then get upset? If their looked, I and appropriately I mean the woodman- are looking at them, because the longing outside hints just it's very confusing and conflicting all mixed messages, but as a preventive, unplanned pregnant

but then also if we did make aboard no legal and we had thirty million of those or, however many sixty million children that were aborted sense, Roby Wade. If it's a sixteen million children did survive and they were in our country. Why would that look like and how would we provide for them, especially if they had no parents if they are given into the adoption system so understand other alot of loving unwilling couples who are seeking children to adopt, there's also aid also partly from and fertility rates skyrocketing right now for men and women and so where do we go from here after I've done some research and so what knowledge, is being developed and no that artificial whims be a reality in the close feature I right now they have artificial limbs that are that were able.

Take lands that were premature in and get them to gestation and there are expecting to be able to do this for human babies soon. For pre me, babies to fully develop and maybe eventually have an artificial whim for nine months, and if that's the case, I do think abortion would be outlawed, and maybe rightfully so, because now the mud that wasn't planning to get pregnant. Now she has referred, I stayed in her if, if we do believe it's a baby with potential to be a human then or a foetus with that would be him, and then you know it is. It is in any harm to her to too have to be pregnant for nine months if they could just remember from her her women put it in artificial him in there. There's lots of different things that their developing to its I mean it gets really scary.

Try looking into it with us semantic engineering and all that. How do you get and fair use you you you have fortunately, or why, when I was thirty two I didn't have to be brave, except for my own life, you're, very brave person, it's really Sonata d Feel I've enjoyed it. I hope you have. I have really have thank you for inviting me just a reminder I'd, love you to rate and subscribe to the podcast and passes on to a friend, so it can be discovered by other people.