Imagine if free will just disappeared – and we didn’t even notice. Author and psychologist Dr. Robert Epstein started researching Google before the 2016 election and has since found chilling evidence that this is now the reality we’re facing. A Clinton supporter himself, he was disturbed to see how bias in Google’s search results was shifting votes to the left – and it didn’t stop there. Epstein warns about how everything from Google’s “free” tools to its work with world governments is part of a massive data-collecting surveillance system. He predicts that if this continues, in 2020 we won’t be able to distinguish between reality and the suggestions we’re fed. That is, unless we fight tech with tech.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
On today's podcast. I want to talk to you about the matrix. I gonna talk to about things that don't think most Americans even understand and the time to understand it and do something about. It is running very short: dutch, rubber, steam is a guy who's gonna meet today. Who is leading expert on what's happening with Google and what is happening in the world of a I, and this conversation should terrify. You It will also leave you with the question of ok. So what do we do about it? What do you do march protest, Google for most Americans, I mean that's the way. We think we change things, but that's not it. This involves fighting a corrupt and powerful system, one that is now bled right into Washington DC. It has to be flawless and it has to be smart and it has to happen right now, so Anyone who stands up against Google has an element of hero inside of them today:
Guess is, I think, a very brave man, He is a senior research psychologist at the American Institute for Behaviour, research and technology he's not a conservative. In his own words, he has been left of centre his whole life. He voted for and supported bill in Hillary Clinton. Hillary Clinton last time in twenty sixteen, he loves America and he feels and felt that everyone on both sides would be interested in his studies. Unfortunately, that is not the case too many people are trying to tear him apart. He fears for his life for what he is looking into, but he will not sit down, but he warns now. Is the time speak now or you will forever be forced to hold your piece earlier this summer he spoke from
the Senate Judiciary Committee, to present the research that he has uncovered that proves that leading up to the twenty sixteen election, Google manipulated the search results and news stories with systematic, biased in favour of Hillary Clinton. He believes that they could throw the election away from one Canada or the other would be away from Donald Trump. He believes this may not be an honest election and we must have proof that this is or is not. His list of honors in commendations is impressive. He is charming clever. He is site for and he is brave, as you will see today, Doktor Robert Epstein,
you're not doing any of your research for political purposes. In fact, we you voted for Hillary Clinton in twenty sixteen and would have reported on it if it was the other way around it didn't matter to you right, I would put it. Finally, I would say that that I put democracy and our country and the free and fair election. That ahead of any particular party or candidate, I believe that the average person is like that. I believe the average American which is wants it to be fair, wants it to be true. And
and stop all these games, but we seem to be sliding into a place to where it's become so tribal that you're either for us or against us, and when I say I mean that tribe and that tribe, whichever side is the right one and the other one. Is evil and gonna get us all enslaved. That's part of the problem, the tribes have always instead. I am sure you know that Thomas Jefferson George, Washington they were vehemently opposed to having to party system Jefferson was was why funny actually- and in some of the ways he criticised as such a system, but they thought it would lead to two strife and it has led to strive- and so were, were reliving that now
but they're there there's another factor, that's part of the mix that that has never existed before, and that is tech and the internet and social media. It's making things happen much faster, so it can. I back up, though I think Tech has added the critical element before you add speed, added fear, because its changing our society so much it's changing changing how we relate to each other, its changing people's jobs. You don't know, what's right over the horizon, you know you you don't know who you can trust what to trust, and so it's added. Fear tribalism plus fear, Now you add speed to it right and you have complete chaos, but there is another side to what's happening intact: the stairs, if it's a hidden side,
what I ve been studying in my research after almost seven years. That's where it gets scared now you could say will head scaring efforts on the surface. That is true, it is kind of, but the hidden part of tech is much much scarier and the hidden Part is well there s a couple things number one. This is it. This is easy for people to understand the everything that's a little harder but sir, with easy one First thing is censorship: That's a scary word that we remember, maybe, from the days of this union or something, except with tack, what that means is. There there showing you news, feed their showing you answers to your questions are showing you search results are showing you all kinds of things constantly and they
have control over what you see and what you don't see, and it turns out that they exercise that, role in ways that serve the company or the company's values or the company's politics. And we don't know what we don't know. I said to re Curs, while you're a friend of rays, and I said to rakers, while maybe twelve years ago- re. Let us think this through. If Google has All the information about me and knows Nosegay can predict what I'm thinking then, as a competitor of Google I could go. You know what I could make this better. And Google will already know that I'm there, why would they supply me with the information to help destroyed them and The answer was, but we never do that. Yes, that's right, that's that's! For sure
but it turns out that they actually do exercise the powers they have now. The censorship power is one power. They exercise their power. Facebook exercise their power, twitter exercise that power. It's called shadow bang. It means european culture let's say who I known, I consider a friend and an has miss in their fathers and she sends out a tweet and she doesn't get much response he begins to think hey. Maybe maybe my tweet isn't reaching all of my followers and in full, we know from leaks from twitter that, in fact, that is the case that twitter, in fact throttles information. They throttle messaging, so all of this is, is sensors of one sort or another and its censorship, you can't see you, who can see if you too, which is part of Google.
Shuts down some conservative channel, which they just did again. Apparently, yesterday You can see something like that, but mode. The censorship that these companies engaged in completely invisible. Now, that's just One scary thing, but the most scary thing is the manipulation these companies the ability to manipulate us and our kids in ways I have never existed before in human history, and you ve been saying this for years and years, because I've been showing the power of manipulation that these companies have through controlled experiments. I've been saying this for a long time. Just lately, just lately, whistleblowers have come forward, documents have been leaked
which confirm what I've been saying since twenty thirteen you and I've talked off the air briefly about Bernay is the Father of propaganda, a I think he was the cousin or the nephew of Freud right, that's right, and was was really the first guide, a really master, at least in the common era. Propaganda and and sway people he's a reason. We have bacon and eggs breakfast and everybody think sought. All that's always been that way. No! No non temper nays we had the average meal was cup of coffee and a piece of toast for Americans, and you have you have been yours- you're study includes that whole arc- Hitler
said the reason why he lost world war. One is because we had Bernice were or to a copy of your days book was on girls task when they finally entered it. Eve he learned the lesson. What Hitler wanted to do mechanically at the time could not have been done All of these things now can be done and In some cases you say they are being done. So am I really rapid, speed so high, What time do we have before a door is closed and you're in a cage? I think the door has closed. I think we're we're in the cage. Now you know there's control and there's control their control like us.
Top like that. You can see right and then there's other kinds of controls that she can't see can still impact which, which way you're going to turn and there's a wonderful quote that comes from a book called the hidden persuaded, is published. In the nineteen fifties, which is more or less as follows, and seen dictatorship is possible. Still using the trappings of democracy, there is this: the difference between nineteen, eighty, four and brave new world now goes beyond both of those visions, this is its pretty shocking, will both sure, because in a dark way, beyond in a dark way
in one sense, in a very direct way, because we're talking about techniques that have simply never existed before ever in human history that are made pass, buying a new tack and made possible, because a lot of attack is controlled by monopolies. That was never part of the plan that wasn't part of the. You know that the concept that you know they ve or the originators of the internet had in mind. They didn't know one innovations and easy opposite this, Lena, which be the great leveller, they weren't supposed to be these massive entity the Google being the largest that could control so much of what happens on the internet. So.
So there is a very dark side here in the sense that these these new methods of controlling people are in the hands of a very small number of people and those methods are being used and we well? I know at least the ever thinks it is. One of the wind people are banned on the internet. I just want to shake people and say: oh, how is the book burning? in Germany, when they burned the books, everyone knew what that looked like. They knew what it was now when they just disappear, when your shadow banned when you're silenced, when your d persons There's no rally, there's no uniform, there's no bright light in the sky, there's no there's! No, to say to you. This looks wrong. You can so easily just move on and not
notice, but aren't we doing the same thing without knowing it. Let me, let me explain. One technique varies apple. This'll scared, scared, the pants off. Ok, I don't know you're coming to a profession June twenty sixteen, a small news service, released a video and they posted on Youtube by the way and they were claiming that led. The Google made it very easy to get When will you started to type in a search term related to let's say, Donald Trump or a lot of other people? They would they would flash suggestions at you. So those are suggestions. You haven't even seen, search results they flashed suggestions that you have all sorts, including negative ones, but according to this news report, if you type in
anything related to Hillary Clinton. You couldn't get anything negative and I thought well. Why would they do that? Why would they do? That's? That's the things like that bother me as a scientist, So I guess you it's more than an edge. It turns out it's it's, it's something, amazing. What they're doing amazing. So, first of all with my staff. We started checking this out save this was true, so we would type in here. Three Clinton is on Yahoo and being and we get along. List of. Very negative search suggestions. Hillary Clinton is the Devil, Hillary Clinton, insect, etc, and it turns out that's what people are actually searching for. That's what being and yet who were show you in their suggestions. We type hill, We Clinton is on Google and we got Hillary Clinton is awesome. Hillary Clinton is winning and that's all. Ok. So again, the question
Why would they do that? Why would they show you things for soil it? No one is searching for, and why can I- empty Mansour answer and see. If you see how far off I am, I we thought years ago. I always thought that that's what people were actually searching for. And so I feel like I'm out of touch. Oh gosh, everybody thinks she's this, and so I feel you know, I feel separate, which I know feel separate, but I feel separate part like. Oh everybody believes this. I maybe I'm wrong is anywhere close to either doing it. Maybe at one point in I was worse than that: yes, yes, it is actually worth and that, in fact, I think when those suggestions were first started. I think it was just too
They were just for convenience to help you. I think it was nothing more than that and then turn it yeah Otto fell Jacqueline and it then it turned into something else, and it turned to something else and what its morphed into now is. Something really really scared. Because I ended up conducting a long series of controlled experiments on search suggestions, auto complete its scope and I'm pretty sure, base and the experiments Google is manipulating people, searches from the very first character they type into the search box. Now, if you kind of doubt tat, then I suggest that you pull out your phone and you type the letter a into the Google search box Because there is a pretty good chance that you're going to see Amazon either in the first position so
and or third or maybe all three. Why is Google? trying to send you to Amazon? Well, it turns out. Amazon is Google's largest advertiser and it turns out there. Google sends more traffic to Amazon than any other traffic source. These are business partners. Google wants, you didn't go there, but the experiments also showed that, just by manipulating search suggestions, I could turn a fifty fifty six among undecided voters into a ninety ten split way from the drop down OX or from the result Zono Jes Jes, but those just dropped. Box of your typing it in well, because those suggestions, it's very likely if people are going to click on one of those suggests and here's the key to the key to it is
that if you allow a negative to come on to that list, then this process, which social scientists call negativity, bias kicks in it's also called the cockroach in the salad phenomenon. You get this big, beautiful, salad, there's a little cockroach in the middle and all of your attention is drawn to the cockroach an evil needs. If they allow even one negative to come into that list? Negativity bias occurs, that negative suggestion draws ten to fifteen times as many clicks as neutral or positive. So if they allow negative to come in there lay now it's got and draw a lot of clicks. That's gonna generate certain kinds of search results. It's gonna bring you too. All kinds of negative information about that candidate or whenever that guitar whatever it is you typed in
One of the simplest ways for Google to support a candidate is to suppress negative search suggestions for that, today, but to allow negatives to occur for the other candidates. Interesting Donald Trump kicked off his re election over the summer and he was doing these massive rallies. And then I was going to do a monologue the next day about how the difference Donald Trump in Morocco Mamma, had the same kind of momentum on their first election. They both had these big stadiums. Obama was the first one to ever. Do that and really see that now Donald Trump is doing the same and of passionate crowd. However, when mama started to run a second time. I remember clearly his
idioms were half to a quarter full and seventy five percent of it was empty, I quickly had to change, but I remember those images clearly, so I I clicked on to find images of Donald Trump's rally, and then I tried to find pictures of Barack Obama in twenty twelve running for re election in stadiums. I spent two I couldn't find it. I gave it to one of my researchers whose aim, which is on the internet. It took him from eight o clock at night till three in the morning to find it and the only reason why he kept looking was I know they exist, I know they exist. What how would you simply explained that just they just disappeared? Well, if you asked me this question couple months ago, I could have speculated, but now,
actually tell you, because a lot of documents have recently been leaked from Google and the main thing I say one: Ask me about them. Is I told you so because I telling people for years about black lists at the company and it turns out the documents support. Every single thing I've been saying an among these documents. There are reports me most a manual explaining how we, then Google? We can Ray Rank De Rank, infringe rank In other words, Google has developed tools for taking information that they don't want people to see and they can easily suppress it or be still. I saw another's whatever the normal processes
a lot of manual intervention. Now I I'm gonna tell you now, I'm telling you I guess, on the record that I have now been approached by a potential whistleblower, though I am not going to give much detail here, but been approached by someone. This is when the past week and this person is confirming what these documents say. Confirming that there is an enormous amount of manual intervention occurring at Google. Is this a manual there's thirst, three schools of thought, one they rode algorithms and that's just the way the algorithms were written and it's it's human bias gone into the algorithm, but not an ill intent it just is they see the world a different way to their sitting around and they are concerned. I have and they're all in on it.
The third one, I think, is the most realistic, and that is yes, there's inherent pious because, with a bunch of conservatives Route wrote it, you just see the world, Firstly, and others at inherit by us, but there are so those who warlike in awhile and that's not up all the chain of command or anything else. That's There's a lot of humans involved in that so which is it? Is it a group of people that are sitting around having meetings passing memo saying do this or is it a small group of people was an old psychology profess. Mine used to say, if you can imagine it is probably true. So in this case it would be all of the above We are seeing more and more evidence that that the Google's algorithms inherently biased and there's a lot of. Search showing that, when someone programmes algorithm his or her biases
written in that shouldn't surprise. Anyone and there's also probably some people at the top who have certain values in certain agendas and they want those expressed in their products and services, and there are also individuals, just employees who have either they they password authority or who have the hacking skills to just make magic happen. The most fame case. A Google is a programmer Maris Milner and when a few years ago a someone like me, a professor, like me, found out that Google's street view vehicles were driving up and down the streets of more than thirty countries for four years, not only taking pictures of our houses but also
sucking up all of our wifi data credible when this happened. Google books the entire operation on one, employ Marius Milner and what happened in areas military's on the streets now right with a cannon his hand, no he's a hero, Google, he still works there and I'm Lincoln. He lists his profession as hacker. So all of the above that- and this is this- is when you think of the fact that that this company- Can impact the thinking and behaviour and purchases and attitudes and beliefs and votes of more than two and a half billion people around the world and all those kinds of of populations can be made: the owl
where them itself can cause people's views to change I'm writing a fiction book, and I need a manchurian candidate that I need somebody to go and do something. If I have all of their information- and I control The way they see that information can't, I find the fairly unstable individuals. Let's say I need a rice dog fire can't I find easily individuals
just keep fondling them without any finger prints at all and pretty much have them execute. What I want them to execute. Well, as it happens, a senior software engineer at Google. His name issue meet beluga here, the novel there. All about Google accept. It was a fictional version of Google called the Silicon Jungle Yoke we recognise that title because he was basing it on an early. Nineteen hundred spoke magnificent book called the jungle about Chicago and in those days, but the silicon Jungle is about a fictional version of Google, in which all kinds of really bad things happen. Sometimes it's because some outside agency comes in and targets play and says that employ hey. Can you help us with this
and the next thing you know, terrorist groups in the Middle EAST and the Middle EAST now have a list of five thousand potential recruits for their efforts and all that information is coming out of Google's data. So the answer is not only is that possible, but here is someone who's been with you a very very long time actually telling you in fictional form, This is reality, so I read thing about Amazon, really disturbed me that Amazon, does not see themselves in the future as a sales company? You know this. There are shipping company and. And that's how they want to be viewed in the future. That's their goal, but to become shipping company they have to be able to predict. You
at least ninety five percent correct every time so instead of going to Amazon say how much we need milk. We need this, and neither will I I really like those ass. I saw the other day all these things would arrive at your doorstep and- You would then just go. Oh wow. I ok vows thinking about this whole thing about this. I was thinking about that. That's great! You know about that when our that one back is law they don't have more than five percent returns. That's there legitimate stated goal to do. That now is how much giving getting from me and how much are they saying? Have you seen these bats? Have you seen this? You all these are gray sky like when you're looking for a car. All of a sudden, you start to see all these years of our white car, oh You notice! All these cars are white. I meet
That is normal. This is. Possibly not normal. It would be just for you what happened, but where a Accurate in reality, oh quite accurate. Yes, ok, be where, where is free, will how to? How do we know what we you're doing and how do we know when we're being controlled or not? Well, there's this free will and necessity that that de the the illusion of free will is maintained, cause you're, making a choice. I want this. I dont want that so, Luzhin of free. Well, that's important, but in fact there is no more freewill, because happening behind the scenes, and this is not just at Amazon. This is Google and Facebook as well. What's here behind the scenes as their building general models of you and Google has been pretty open about
that's him and they want to be able to predict your needs and once before, even aware of them, I mean Google has been in sing in dna repositories for a long time and our dna information has been incorporated into our profiles, because that way they can predict what diseases you're susceptible to, and they often oh, by the way which bothers have are not the real fathers so yeah, that's a big part of that hidden world is the digital modelling, and you know if you, if you're a techie, then it's just fascinating but if you're someone who's interested in concepts like human autonomy and free, speech and free. Well, this is the end. This is the end and
I'm saying we're in some sand, say I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I know it is wanted. I can't tell you if I read a lot of futurists, even a fan of Ray Kurzweil for thirty years, And I ve been saying this for so long, and it has- seemed like science fiction to everybody. And I keep saying, as you must feel the same way guys know it. It's no look at the why it we're close we're close and now for people start to just be gone now, wait a minute is like: when did this happen to us I don't know ten years ago, ten years ago, so I'm sorry,
frustrate. But when you say I want you to repeat, you said free will. This is the end. Explain that if, if you're an average american adult Google has the equivalent of about his heart, even save us, because people them who has the equivalent of about Three million pages and information about you. They know much more. You, then you know about yourself. And they're, using on information not just to make sure that their vendor can sell you products there. Using that information to build a d you know you so that they can predict, your needs and wants and behaviour mode.
Into moment in time every single day because they know they can model. Ties that number one but number two. They know more than that. They know I can use that to create a better human kind. Ok, so how could I possibly say something that of Sir well because one of the things that leaks from Google about a year and a half ago is an eight minute. Video called the selfish ledger. It was meant for internal use only recommend strongly that everyone. Fine! online and watch it, because this is about the past ability of Google using its information and its tools to, we engineer humanity, and even mentions according to company values? Here, could I made it.
Transcript of this video and am happy to posts that online for for people to look at because it make what let what website I'll get it your people and will put it up. But you know when you, you realize the kind of thinking that's going on in a place like this, where they have this information and this much power to control what people see and don't and then all these new manipulative tools, they know they understand the power that they have and they are openly I mean within women. It was closed doors there openly talk, about ways spectacular ways that they can use these powers that they have
powers that no dictator in in history has ever had and and and by the way, all be speaking German. If Hitler had this power, what is it this is? But this is beyond hither, because this is almost crazy stuff. Now, for example, I no Sir Launcelot himself. Well, for example, I have, and my family as an improvement. I have some friends or conservatives for examining yeah, maybe you're, the one who knows- and my Conservative friends are just laser focused on the fact that companies like Google, I want to make sure trap, is not reelected and that's it they're just focused and they see Google it.
Some bunch of crazy liberals in a left wing communist types and that's it that's all they can see some of my conservative friends and I try to explain it none of you to understand. The problem is much bigger than that. If you look at how Google functions in different countries because they are in every country, in the world except China. North Korea, if you look at how they function in different countries, they are not necessarily acting like a bunch of liberals and there are countries in which they promote the right and suppress the left. They go country by country, doing whatever I feel like doing doing whatever serves the needs of the company- serves their financial needs. Google had plans that were that words were. Were words were squash, by their own employees and God by members of Congress to go back to China. In fact they would have been.
By now or they would have been an early next year at the latest in a project called Dragon fly, working side by side with the chinese government to help round people up to control, chinese population yeah. Ok, so let me go to China here for second social credit scores now it's hard to its hard to who know how people really feel about it because they're all in China and you, dare speak out against it, but et, you know, you'll hear these interviews with people who are absolutely controlled every minute, China has so much control in many of their big cities that they can. Actually,
cause you to never leave your house. They don't need to lock your door. They don't need to post a guard. You will never leave your house because your unwelcome everywhere and their proud of that, but you talk to people the average person there like this is great. We don't have any crime, emo don't have this. We don't have that. We kind of Heaven I have to remind my own children. I have five wonderful children, Amazon could could picked me so much that they're gonna have exactly what I want the they love this. My life is easy, so You fight against. Against that. Look every single day. I have to remind my own children. I have five wonderful children please stop using Gmail, please stop using chrome, which is a Google's browser. Please please stop using Google products
you don't get. Android phones, Android is also part of Google. I was it my sons, but let them we I've. Never let my kids have funds, don't let them have ipads. You know we monitor what they're doing we don't have chrome, I go to high school and they so excited to announced that they are soon going to all be Google class and I thought your handing the life of my child over to Google you're, giving them everything. That's right! That's right Well, educational institutions will get all the our suite of Google Services for free, so a lot of major universities. Even you see alive in Columbia University. They of course going to take those services are what,
going on here, what's going on here, is that these companies are providing certain kinds of services for free, quoting quotes really free as you pay for it with their freedom, but they are giving you service. Which are sort of free and they work really well and there are a lot of fun to use and what people and and and and would say and their convenience there sure as heck convenient, because if you're gonna have to do you some alternative that that might actually cost you a few bucks or every time I do something they people always call. I use doktor go, have you tried duck duck, go it sucks, can I mean that's all I get the convenience part what people do realise these are surveillance tools. You voluntarily using a surveillance tool and the
surveillance tools are not just the ones. Your kind of aware of something like Gmail, four examples, pretty obvious chrome sees everything you do online and reports it Android funds. Even you're off line. There still recording everything you do and everywhere you go in the moment you go back online line. All information is uploaded. But the surveillance goes beyond what without stop there. For second sure, I've got nothing to hide I'm not doing anything wrong, so I do I care. I've had a conversation well, first about everything act. Everyone has thanks to hide You can tell me what you're off the air me a sample, but the nothing hide idea that just doesn't work because you ve gotta keep in mind that there be Building a digital model of you and
digital model, not only lets them sell things to you, but lets them control you the more they know about you, the easier it is for them to flip you're thinking. One way or the other anyway they choose. I know this because this is what I do and my experiments so nothing to hide is irrelevant. You do not want a private. Come which is not accountable to the public. Are public or any other public around the world to have that kind of power over you and all of your children and children are far more susceptible These manipulations than adults are deal, really want to give that kind of power to a private company.
This is so overwhelming for the average person before we get into what can be done. I remember I remember. Almost thirty years ago now, I said, there's gonna come a time when you're not gonna, believe your eyes. Digital manipulation be so good that you will not believe your eyes and six years ago we started talking about deepfakes and I've been tracking them online. For the for the audience here, it is here it is, I'm telling you this is not about Nicolas cage. This is going to get spooky very soon year ago. Two years ago I said two thousand and twenty is the year. Is all hell is going to break those
What's coming with digital figs, with deep figs, both swaying twenty is the ear. So you call that because next year, especially in in connection with the with the election, is such as fake news, we have to worry about its fake everything and fake videos next steer our guns. Is so good that you're gonna have you're literally will have whoever the democratic candidate as well will will give a speech, and then there's gonna be four for every true word that that candidate spoke there might be a hundred videos in which the words are changed, or the same could be done with Donald Trump. You're you're just after you know, what's real and what isn't real now, the
the solution for a quota that some of the tech companies are talking about, is, is to do what more What they're doing now, which is suppressing content that they think is defined live some way and boosting content that they think is ok, let's exe! dreamily dangerous in and of itself, because we're hey what they and that bed again make some official sensors arrests or, as one of these documents from Google says, is depicted source. It makes us now makes us the good sensors, where the good sensor, all ok, but I want him to have their power. I don't even want to government to have their power. I don't want anyone to have power over me and my kids, but twenty twenty is the year there is going to be radical amount of fake stuff out there all around us, matter what the government or any any company, tries to do.
Concerned it all. My life fear was the first one if it's big enough powerful enough, the first one that really breaks through we'll be war of the worlds I may we are. I am a big fan: Orson Welles, I studied that time period. How could he moved the people to wear a good portion thought that was real? Well, when We stand the time period, new technology in everything else, yet it makes sense, we're there again and that first, fake that's real and hits the right nerve wheel ii, the Orson Welles WAR, the world's down the road, but it gonna happened so fast. That could cause because war it could cause. The civil unrest. Anything are you? Are you confident that that somehow or another we're going to be able to filter, though
who's out. Are we gonna or do you think that that's realistic to happen I don't think we're going to be able to filter those out there well. I think their will please be he's from starting, next and beyond forever they'll be more and more Hey us around all kinds of fate content of all sorts they'll be avatars Her indistinguishable from people know Ba eyes that are indistinguishable from compete from people also, and that's just part of the future. Believe it or not, even though that chaos is coming that doesn't we need that much, because that kind of chaos is competitor an visible and others Please you can see the fake video and someone could post a nut. Her fig video with different words. Its is to me it's like billboards, you know you put up your bill, over here. I put my billboard over here in my
find, and eventually we go eventually because, while neither one of you are really probably all right- and you start to think for yourself, well, maybe, but the point is at least at least you're up against sources of influence, types of influence that you can see and where there is competition. So what I much more concerned about our these, these other kinds of influence, these creepy kinds of influence that you can't see where there is no possibility of competition. In other words, one way to put it is this content in a sense and a video is content and add, is content. A billboard is content in a egg content doesn't really matter anymore. What matters is who does the filtering of content and who does the ordering of content nodes
decides what content we can see or not see and who decides the Order in which we are presented the content. Now, when you get to filtering and ordering your back to Google number one to a lesser extent, Facebook into a much lesser extent, twitter. And you're back where we started, which is we ve, got some and dangerous companies with all kinds of power that they should not have. So I know you are trying to set up a monitoring system and you need fifty million dollars. So if anybody is watching this, you have now fifty million dollars. Here's where you should write check, but average p
all are helping you as well and and four hundred and fifty million dollar project to happen. You need somebody with deep pockets right now to be able to hit twenty twenty and to monitor this election and to be able to Prove yes, this was fair, or this was corrupt. First question: can the average person can you can you start things with ten million dollars. Obviously any any funds we have that we can throw this problem, we're gonna you're gonna. Do do it, of course, but this this time around I've I've bill to monitoring systems already in this time around. I want to do it on a very large scale. And in a way that has has just enormous credibility. That's that's unimpeachable to use the language of common and then is that these days is unimpeachable and
means having a very large group of we call them feel agents and all fifty states, thousands of them, and we want to build king over their shoulders with their permissions, and we want to be tracking bias in news feeds, email, suppression, A shadow banning biased search results, search suggestions, does and other things which I will mention, but we we, we tracking the stuff in real time analyzing in real time, so that we can report. Manipulations. We can report irregularities as they are occurring now. The best result of that would be that these companies back off and we actually end up with a true free and fair election, if they back off, I will have done my job. If they don't back off, I think the repercussions will will. Will
we'll take these companies down. I think be. I think that we'll get serious if these companies can change. This nonsense after being exposed over and over again, with a very, very, very large, highly credible system of monitoring if they dont back down, I think where you are going to see finds that go through the roof and we're going to see actual I'll and probably criminal prosecutions. So let me rephrase the question that I asked ray. Kurzweil lie say I was gonna, build a system to monitor Google Ray. And you knew what I was doing and you who knew the people, because you have information on everyone. You know the people who I am monitoring. What would stop? Google just not making sure those peoples, algorithms are clean. Well, that's why, when we-
play systems in the past are we had to do what the Nielsen companies been doing since one thousand nine hundred and fifty you know Nielsen recruits families to monitor people's television and it's very, very important that the identities of those families not be known because If they were known, imagine the pressure on those family is to watch the show and not that show I mean the Nielsen ratings determined advertising raise. They determine whether a show is taken off the air, so they do things quite secretly and that's what we did in twenty sixteen and two thousand and eighteen and two thousand and twenty much of what we do will be done in secret. How many people do think think you're, overly dramatic or or paranoid. Well as Alan Dershowitz on sat in a talk that I was attending, there's a fine line,
between paranoia and caution. I don't care how, people label me My work adheres to the very highest standards of scientific integrity. It always has the model ring systems. I built are wrong solid when it comes to men, apology and results. I know, doing things right. So what name's people throw it man, it's irrelevant, I'm trying to get to the truth of the matter. When we have massive amounts of data that have been preserved, which are normally lost forever, because what we're preserving our ephemeral experiences. That's key that that phrase which is used internally, Google is key to find it an ephemeral experiences. Something like generating search results. You type in a term search results, appear their gender
on the fly just for you and then you click in there they're gone forever. So since it's a short shortly, experience that is generated for you uniquely disappears and there's no way you can go back in time and re created an ephemeral experiences what my monitoring systems have been able to capture? That's, that's it ever been done before, and that is where we can get a handle on these tech companies and I believe that that setting up big well crafted monitoring systems is critical. Not just to try to to try to guarantee a free and fair election in twenty twenty. I think these systems are our protection against the misuse of text
apologies moving forward into the decades that follow up- and I think this is this- is how we protect humankind from technology is with monitoring systems, isn't isn't DARPA ways and the Pentagon wise, and this is to protect and conserve and to preserve the constitution of the United States and its people's freedom. Why isn't the government backing this? Why why? Why could I get money for Turtle Tuttle research? But not this glad, I have to say in all honesty, I've been wondering that myself, one of my contacts in Washington says: well, maybe they our doing it? You just don't know I'm in that could be. If you could what what was you said, you said if you can think it was that because
I, you know the CIA helped fund, Google The annex loves this kind of information. The Google employees strangely, for some reason, just you know how to day strike where they all marched in front and said. Google, you have to stop give information to ice, we'll wait when that start. When you mean give information, I what information they giving and who are they giving it to and how much are they giving Here is that those two or two peas and pod that they gave her feet, thing on each other for protection. Both sides. Well, Google, very closely with government agencies. So one answer I can give to your question is: I think, for this first large scale monetary system. I think we probably should try to do it. Pending of government. I just think that
These systems need to MR around the world, I think probably they should be independent of government. They should be reporting possibly to government agencies as european or to the media. As appropriate or to the Federal Election Commission as appropriate, but I think our best protection is to have independent, you know, org nations their basically non partisan, none profit organizations that exist for on purpose in one profoundly in that is to protect humanity, protect democracy, protect the free and fair election. By looking over people's shoulders and seeing what these companies showing us! What are they? What are they telling us are these over these home assistance like like Alexa or Google Home
what are they sang? What kinds of answers early, giving that's one of the things we are going to monitor and we're going to tabulate those data and we're going to analyze them as fast as we can using artificial intelligence. You see we're talking about tech. Tec is the problem. How do you fight tech, you fight tech with tech? That's how you do it. Tech. Can keep up with tax laws and regulations. In my opinion, cannot you know they move way too slowly and then you get into all the partition. I talk to talk to people on the National Security Council, one point and we all set down- and I said I just went on talking about some future tech- that's coming and they looked at each other and have to work with Congress. We're gonna have to I mean we should we should. Maybe they start talking among them.
Else. Maybe we should look into this law on this line. I sit by the time. You guys figure it out it's already over it's over. It's their onto something else. So it is in this kind of what Stephen Hawking was. Talking about the end of homo sapiens. Nah, meaning that we're all gonna die? There won't be. But necessarily look like us, but we will have to augment or we're never gonna be able to keep up with tech. Talking was one of a number of people, even musk as another who been been warning about the dangers of new technologies, how various kinds of threats that they pose to the human race. So I'm not taking on that that whole gamut, no young, but I'm, but I am saying, look I've I've. I've been doing some very rigorous scientific research for a long time. It is
without any doubt, the power that these companies have timid He lay people without their knowing and without leaving a paper trail again. Ephemeral experiences, that's the key here and an end for someone, maybe who just to india- and let me just repeat what I said earlier- that phrase ephemeral experiences that, It comes from a memo that was leaked to the Wall Street Journal last year from good, lay no the power of ephemeral experiences to influence people, so you know that's that's what I've tumbled onto I've stumbled into that I've. I've analyzed it I've quantified it. I'm pretty sure I know how we can protect ourselves from it from that kind of manipulation, and so that's my that's. My focus now maybe we'll all be taken over by robots and in fact this lobby for nothing, but
at least in the short term, I'm trying to protect the integrity of the free and fair election in twenty twenty. Now I affair and family members who say what, but that that means helping Donald Trump now you're helping the truth, here: hers. Ok, I just for the record for the record. First about person form. I am not suicidal ok, I gotta get there on the record. Did. Did you hear that okay, I m not suicidal and say I am not a trump supporter stuff. I know you the jokingly yeah, but you have to think those things, at least in scary moments of your life like. I should be You know one when I first started take on George Soros. I couldn't me imagine anyone would try to do, but there were times were alike
I want everybody to know. George Soros and I are at odds with each other- Do you have those moments of let's? Let's put it this way, I hadn't what I'm not going identify him, but one of the one of the people whose high In our country and law enforcement came up to me at one point after I gave a talk and said and an act ass. There was no smile and not a trace of a smile. Unfortunately he said you know, I think, in the next few months, you're going probably dine and accident he said, and just keep in mind that people die in accidents every day and then he walked away. Oh my gosh, you know I do such thoughts pop into my and will sort of now and then they do. They lay swiss alarm from Google Zack Vorhees, He was until he finally launched, has done
commence out into the world this very much afraid for his life, very much afraid for his life and Google sent police. To his home and sent a swat team you know the so anything is possible, but I I know what I am, I'm a researcher I'm very, very good at what I do. I'm gonna stay focused doing the research doing what I do well and analyzing. My findings reporting my findings, I'm gonna this? Whether it helps tromp or not? I just think that's it, an issue that we must Jefferson said in the end. You have to trust the American people, they will make a mistake, but in the end they ll figure it out and they'll correct that mistake. It's not for us to decide that
into me, that is the problem with the early twentieth century progressive. I know better. Who are you to say you know better? Let people figure it out, people will figure it out and we're gonna make mistakes, but people have to make that choice. Not an algorithm not accompany not a dictator. Well, that's that's! That's again we're I'm digging in because if we. Have no monitoring system in place militia. Sorry about that possibility. If there is no monitoring some place where it's mine or the or DARPA whoever it is. No monetarist, note no one turns the switch and turns the system on so that we can look over we'll shoulders and see what these companies are, showing them and and and preserve those. If admiral experiences. If we have no such system in place in twenty twenty, we will have it.
Absolutely no idea why whoever on the presidency, one, the presidency, we won't have a clue and I tell you this without any day Millions of votes will have been shifted by big tech companies with out our understanding what happened without us being able to go back in time and figure it out we living or about Live in the matrix, but a different cut, where were we not in pods, but we're late being in kind old world anyway. My impressed in the matrix series of movies was that the people did make real choices and those choices had consequences. Maybe I'm just fantasizing here, but that was my impression certain
the illusion of free, always existed in the matrix? was it all just an illusion. I don't know, I don't think the matrix series really weighed in on that point, but We are definitely at a point in time in which, as as as this british economist long ago in which a in. Seen. Dictatorship is possible within the trappings of democracy were definitely at that point in time. Right now were then unseen dictatorship is indeed possible. I think to some extent it's already in place. I think, to some extent democracy as we originally conceived of it, is an illusion and two summits, and free will right now is all
an illusion were being knowledge but nuttin, not not not just in the sense that professor were lined with so brilliantly, but we're actually being push and shoved, I mean by via forces that in some sense, are all subliminal you can. See bias in search results. You can't hear you can't I remember when I was a kid and there was this big thing subliminal editing and you, slow, the taper, the film down, you can go back frame right there. This doesn't have the film you can't look at the frame, it's gone. Well, normally, as guy and twenty sixteen, I presume Damn thirteen thousand two hundred and seven election related searches and was able to capture that capture the web pages.
In enough innocent, slow things down, so we can go back and analyze it twenty eighteen, I preserve them anymore. Twice that information. Twenty twenty want to be able to preserve millions of searches and how and what were the results in sixteen and eighteen in sixteen and eighteen. Both times I found Very, very strong, oh liberal, bias in all ten search positions on the first page of Google search results but not on being or Yahoo, for that's important. The other thing important as these statistics, so we're not gonna. Do a statistics course here, but left just tell you that the results are results were significant, not at the point of five level, which is a kind of generous cut off its avenues in research, but at that point zero, zero one level, meaning that
answers that we got our results by chance alone were less then one in a thousand, while I'm kind this place to where I can I found myself when I heard about ISIS taking slaves and- and I thought what am I doing with my life, what I mean how do we? How do we even help where's the government on this, and then I realized We don't need the government to do those thing. That's up for us to do. And we raised about twenty six million dollars and saved about thirty three Some people moved them out of the area rescued some slaves, and I can't find myself in that same for the same thing.
You would. You write a compelling letter to my colleagues and I'd like to send it out to every broadcaster and every pod, castor that I know- and I d like to see if we can coordinate- a broadcast podcast day week, whatever it is because I think the american people are our footprint is twenty or thirty million dollar thirty million people. In a month we can hit fifty in pretty easily in a week. If we would work together and everybody gave a dollar some people,
if ten dollars we could hit that quickly? Would you be willing to write that letter that I could send out if twist my arm chair? I think you are an extraordinarily brave man. I know a little bit of what you have faced and the temptation, and probably the conversations with your family and your wife honey. Is it really worth this and the answer with you is yes and I am deeply grateful and my children will be deeply grateful for your research and what you have had the courage to stand and say thank you
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Transcript generated on 2020-04-17.