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by the end of January. Twenty seventeen. My guest today was under investigation by the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the central intelligence Agency and the National Security Agency, the director of national intelligence and the financial crimes enforcement network. This was a massive operation that spend more than three years and cost millions of dollars and in the end he was not accused of one single crime. I will tell you that in the course of the last few years I have been conflict. It is a good guys, you bad guy at first I was convinced he was guilty and then I was so sure, and then I was convinced again and then I wasn't sure most of our trusted institutions were telling us that this a bad guy media wherein lockstep. This is a foreign agent, but, as the facts started to come out and we began to do our homework and more and more things were released, we began to realize that something truly criminal had occurred, but not from him, not the one. We originally thought our government in collusion with agencies and the media didn't do something criminal. They destroyed an american citizen on this episode of the podcast, the man that found himself directly in the crosshairs of the deep state it all began with the lies about Carter page

You ve been told a lot of things, but you are kind of a fugitive. If you will and one of the things that was said about you, and I think this is the kind of thing that could have been said, or they did say what, the Russians didn't even want you cause. You were too stupid. Looking at your history you are anything but stupid. You have your masters. You have a phd. You are in the top ten percent of your class at that EVIL Academy five percent actually by the heavy like us, are of any still big deal for me, TAT five, I mean you or anything and you're you're successful. You were ceo of merit, Lynch is, is there anything out there about you. That's true!

it's amazing. The impact the media, because people can take little snippets of information in total twist and spin it in a way which is completely false. And you know entirely different reality. You were five years naval, intelligence, the sir, but I I worked within elegance and in many contacts? So you view You know the world of intelligence, you know the spy game, how shocking was it to you, a guy who's? early in the military, actually helped put bad guys who were trying to, you know who bring you in as a russian spy at one boy, you turn that whole situation around you exposed bad guys with

guarantee become an informant for the government, you. How will we the intelligence agencies that you were working with and that time report for a long time to turn. Whole thing around a a in Euro, a nobody cares thereafter after Donald Trump, How do you process that processes. Through a lot of that same experience right my first time ever. See a headquarters was over a quarter century a century ago, and nineteen the three ninety ninety foreign and I think I should shaved my head causing a longer term young further bordered century ago, but are you there at institution, the CIA, it

created in with around the start of the cold war right, so their whole resolved etcetera is too, you know Russia is bad and we're kind of you know they base. They sort of were built upon that foundational premise right. So any no, if they have adapted to a certain and over time There is always been sort of an institutional, assumption a lot of institutional assumptions, often fully reef active of reality to various four degrees it at various points in time. But that's that's. A major that is where but you know you ask about it being a surprise. I've had these Bates with very high level people. Me. I'm mid level people and you know age,

so on the ground in the CIA, as well as the fbi- and you know I like candidate had a different world view from a world view, what kind of based experience in under Russia, yes, and this is why this is the foundation upon which this institution was, to a large extent created. Obviously, you know it's a global. They have a global footpath in a global in operations and analysis. On the one hand, but what we need go back to day, one of that institution. What the dog Us brothers were involved in India, Alot of Kennedy, the people origin, Founder is, if you will that's, you know, so I know that to beat however, you you haven't

Halogens people now at the heads of our intelligence agency, clapper and off then? You know also say that you know them Oh brother heard its largely secular, and there I mean they have a completely different world things the Soviets were an enemy. The Russians are russian. People are not our enemy, but Putin is minnow, he's a Guy and you have you know some really bad oligarchs in Russia, We agree with that right. As you know, a situations glassware. If I don't agree with that of any kind of people kind. I it's elevate. Let me give you an example. I met president Trump his interview with O Reilly and here old colleagues. This is something you know any. He had. He was sort of asked a similar question and you now you gotta punch.

Little that and I think again, Sir, the reasons I was a centre piece in terms of them coming after me is, a desire to try to find new solutions. Look, nobody is perfect, I'm not perfect, you're, not perfect, and anyone Vladimir Vladimir Vetch, Putin, perfect, absolutely not Nonetheless, there are a lot of constructive things that can be done. If you look for approaches and let me tell you something as a person who spent you know, years living in Moscow and actually quite a bit of time in twenty sixteen. I may two trips over there in July of twenty sixteen and in December there are a lot of people and there's a lot of momentum for trying to find new solutions, or I'm not doubting that at all levels of the government and all of Us

acts of society S well, there's there also people that are still looking to crush the United States just like there are a hawks over here that would like to go in I mean you know the night that Trump or or ran bombed. You know our troops, I heard a lot of people on the Reich on we ve gotta, go in and take their oil fields and Emily, and it's like whoa whoa, whoa whoa. What so I know there are hawks on on both sides that just think this is still nineteen, fifty six or fifty one or whatever it is, but go ahead: You know there's a kind of hawks in a hawks, we're dove issues? I think It's a little bit of a separate issue. And I think you can kind of achieve things on both fronts, he's a v this, the our question which we were in a first talking about. Relationships are right- and I look, I think,

It is similarly another guy who's. You don't still currently dealing with a lot of all, things right now is General Flynn right and he had, I think, I don't want to misquote him, but one of the premises of his ideal and his sort of national security strategy? his concept city with haste talked about and written about going back. Many years is the this country, Russia can be a an hour. He interpreted that exact in a Middle EAST context in a lot of other, not tough self, so apes. Eyesight wasn't planning on going here, but I have to ask is short, but you do believe the Russians cause they announced this beforehand. I was talking about this in twenty fourteen

they wanted to disrupt our elections. I dont think they wanted to have Trump or Clinton they don't care page just. I would like to sow the seeds of chaos at least. You know some of them as the government and we have we have. Evidence that they did that view we agree with that, let me tell you that the evidence I know for sure and what we ve been, talking about in terms of these Pfizer warrants the effort this. We have is that allow this the impact Mr Larrea, I'm not saying impact, I'm saying that that was their intent. I'm not saying I'm not saying that they do. Metal or they changed anything. What I'm saying is you ve done a better job.

On sewing chaos inside of our own country by using a failed attempt to who influenced our election, I think that kind of new, I think, spoons really smart. I think he kind of new I have to do is to these rules. NL eat it up that the Democrats I'd did they start hating Russia? They hate Donald Trump They hated Donald Trump and we ve done the damage are not saying they threw the election. I'm saying a put enough out. In our media and and we just consumed it in a way of doing the damage they couldn't do a little. Let's be stress, epoch right there on early January, two weeks before the inauguration. They had this director of national intelligence. Russia report, which came out

clapper Commie Brennan these guys, if now big sort, media stars or in a book authors for MR call me and there were two main conclusions in broad terms in in that in that report number one. There was hacking related election and the other part, and it is gonna towards the end. Although its parts of it are there's an appendix at the end of the at that document, which talks about government propaganda right each of those to those two allegations that precisely what the Dnc and the Obama administration did too. But the Trump campaign, and in junction. You know that was a yacht was the other part of this to me is right, who played a role. The face

aided in advance what they were going to do and and the d Trump was not connected to any. Of that Dnc was connected to think stuff that was much worse in the long run with Ukrainians. You know anybody who cause. Chaos wants to cause chaos if its, especially if it's in their own interest, it was in the they thought, the interest of of the Ukrainians to get pillory printed in so they'll help any way they want, and The former administration was there everything they said. Donald Trump was doing, they were doing Donald Trump was not rush was trying to interfere, but not coordinating with the campaign. The people in Ukraine were. Is that accurate? You? Don't I

I've spent a fair amount of time in Ukraine. I have not, I don't, I'm all these very cautious Glenn of talking about things I don't really know and have all the facts about ending look. I think this is part of the reason. What we see about respected. This impeachment thing right now, because they are so much confusion and chaos and incomplete information. Right. A lot of this. You know, I think that very still out in a we. Don't there's a lot more that we need to Helen in a worry event, as you know, sort of beast pieces are starting to come together and we start getting some of this information. I think we may have a better sense of things, so I'm always very cautious about you no come in the conclusion. All I do know is, you know, in a Russia context and again going back to that DNA report two weeks before the inauguration pushes effect heavily a? U S, government, Slash Obama, administration, smear

campaign against President Tromp or the President Elect Trump. Ah, you know in the lead up to you know being sworn in. Let's, let's start with the day, it got real for you there. A is a coffin. Yahoo comes out with a story that, says: you're russian Plant Europe, spot, you have connections with the Kremlin you're part of this coordination you're. You are or a bad guy. You know. That's not true to your friends and family react this Well, it's interesting throughout several months prior, you know

it became a real in a public context. I became a public figure that day, I've had a Wikipedia page in hours of this. You know they, ever Wikipedia pace on that. You know using. That is the basis right. This is kind of you, no one of them. This is defining moment of this in a previously completely unknown guy right, but I think its import in out in its way to your point, a little bit in the months. Prior I actually got a lot of phone calls from journalists- first one loose with the Wall Street Journal, someone from the Wall Street Journal calls me back in July. About the same false allegations which the Dnc consultants we're trying to spread to try to you now this up as quick, could opposition research against then candidate trump.

The calls continued over the following months, Washington Post Nobody reports on it, no one ports on it because they can verify number. One not verified, but but you know in fairness to those other media organisations, whether it's the Wall Street Journal, even New York Times in the Washington Post CNN, when there Ask me about this. You know they it's there in professional journalists. Yeah, maybe again like yours, and there is no one's perfecting that they took steps. Try to do that. In a professional way and sky, MR its coughed in never talk to him, and I never I never spoken with him. He never he never reached out. He re. He left me a couple voice. Males did eat. No just saying you now. Can you call me back type a thing, but I no idea in, I am again about

figure, I'm just a little volunteer to guy in terms of positive impact on the cap on any president, all campaign someone who's putting signs on ones in CS were Missouri or are anywhere has a much off her, you know positive impact than a guy's certain, just a member, this committee, so now, and the funny thing so loosely tons of husband here so out of its, but I mean on that day. You know I again Completely unknown person, I start getting tons of calls from the media right. Just asking me about about these false allegations and it just started became a a downward spiral and my hope again, sort of

private figure, a sort of behind the scenes, kind of guy that I was my is that it would just blow over. So I cried out I just said: well, a lot of no comments. Some, you no comments on background or a sort of off the record that you know you your common sense. This is just right, ridiculous, on the face and- and I can't I've tried- Duff dough underground a little bit in our and again to your point a there- are a lot of questions from fair enough- even family people. I was close with You know what scope on here. Right I mean there is a certain assumptions about the media that, if they're kind of throw out these very serious allegations. Economies there's gotta be something somewhere in our, so it just creates doubt, and

think the thing there was the most serious element of all. This is again you talk. Divisive forces, in politics, this inert exact It's your point. There are some that are gonna, be inclined to believe this. There are some you're gonna be realised that it's completely free what lessons vase, but you know half due to this? and that those people who are the believers of the Russia collusion false story that be an issue when they wanted how to take law into their own hands, and I never meaning meaning allotted death threats,

threats that I got starting in a right around that time was there river went to her you're. You realized, I'm really pretty alone and there's no one really riding into my defence and was ever distant of moment where you thought I'm Ma Am tried for the rest of my life. I won't get it back the bigger costs is, I always think of the damage that story is doing to our country, to our institutions, to our democracy. Really, it's about always or defence. Awfully noble. I mean I've gone through nine gone through what you ve gone through, but I've I've.

I have a Wikipedia patient to share and even trying to change my own Wikipedia page would go well what your evidence! It's me, that's my evidence. It's me I gave up along, I know I'm with you do, but even as much as I am focused on that there are times when I just think I am it's not worth it cause you're, not gonna, beat it you're, not gonna win it's too big. Nobody gives a cry. There is in a single person in journalism that actually want, to know the truth and you I go from you know, times of rights indignation to anxious, I'm gonna go to the mountains and I don't care anymore. I don't care because of people won't stand and do their own homework enough and you some common sense, there's no saving them anyway,

I mean, I think, there's there's a lot different motivations for people in terms of the reasons that they do things they do and the design the commitment taken it do in the end of the day, whatever it takes an from it. I'm I'm just getting to know you now, but my sense is we gonna come at it. For the very similar perspective of you know has one of the soul, people who can help fixes mass and you know anything- you can do to help. Create some semblance of integrity within our society and understanding, is invaluable and at the end of the day, how, despite the costs it makes it makes it all worth it. There's something bigger than just us: ok, I just

I don't think I've, I don't think I've ever met anybody who is the Cary Grant character in north by northwest hundreds of you ve ever seen that moving, I think, Sonny you should watch it he's an asian average everyday guy. They mistake him for somebody else, and the Russians do and they think he's a spy and he soon cease like Nora and every after the police after everybody's effort, the CIA knows s not him. They can lead on because they're gonna figure out there. The CIA is real plan. Will Cary Grant is vital, right by everybody, nobody standing up between that being Europe of character, in least in my head and and the some betrayal of your country and your fellow intelligence, people and F,

yeah. I I have a hard time get my arms around that. But let's stake stick to the story here, I'm not heard I'm not. Heard the story of, I know They tried to recruit you years ago. As you know, when you were over Russia, not true this It's a again more spin right. People are looking Some of these cases, which have now been disclosed by government operatives trying to smear me ass a way to damaging candidate. President Elect and President trump it there so much more to the to the story, and I never been, could unquote recruited in. I think some, he's case studies which have been in the smaller report and other other.

Consider very misleading you now. These individuals, these alleged, our russian agents. Couple guys I you know, would have Casual conversations were in no big No one ever asked me to do anything. No one in Russia ever ask me, do anything unethical illegal or you know in support of their guns, meant as a agent or any any anything along those lines were just having fun many conversations any know, there's a lot of elements to the first amendment at the: U S: constitution, freedom of the press. So I think, is the most well known, but there is also a freedom of speech. And Freedom of Association, Freedom of association, and so if I having a conversation with someone

there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I've never been asked to do anything unethical, illegal or quest Nepal in any way by any of these individuals and sell okay, so that somewhere that left yet so, then what about the part of the story where you oh did the FBI and you say hey. I can help you catch some bad guys, truth to that went well, yes, I know there is a again, I had a long standing relationship with people. You know within but the FBI and CIA and I was someone who's going back the news and related in you know telling the truth I'm so Anne who has different. If insights of war happening in the Middle EAST in Russia and China. A lot of you know worldwide. We had. We had a dialogue, and so

now? It's less. I mean again these these two. Specific russian agents. Who are you know portrayed in the Mulder report very incompletely and in many ways, misleading in in some since his false information, You know what they are they're just conversations I had and again I was a supporting source for the: U S, intelligence, community- and you know it's unfortunate that again, bearing in mind the original impetus for the creation of the CIA and a lot of what the FBI did throughout the original cold war is, gone after russian bad guys. So to the extent someone can give some context in some. You know the four percent. If it is not unusual for the CIA air, FBI when you are going to meet with high?

business people in other countries. This is common that they would you just for prospective right? Well what's interesting about it is you know, what's what's different about My situation is typically in the US, you're, absolutely right that you know that Happens there about a times are enough on some levels. However, What's what is different? Is you SK governments sources leaking information about that support of individuals right Finally, in a negative context, in a way which, as we ve been talking about, is very mislead, so I'm- u one great example I like to cite back when not George H You Bush as President Bush was: ah you know it your stage of his career up at the high at the

yes levels can IP was around, is presidential campaign or something like that he actually been ace. You know he had done similar to me. He'd be international. Business sky focus on the energy sector and so he would have some meetings with people in Latin America and in a safe as I was doing with my work worldwide Russia, China, a Middle EAST. You know I would I provide CIA. With some insights about what's interesting- is one that when that news came up His presidential campaign- you know here I forget exactly how you ve handled it, but you know there's always no comment. He never. Really was very forthcoming about that and I never wanted to be either but unfortunately weapon. You know what you have

boss story, Nor surrounding this. Collusion between the intelligence, community FBI, CIA and the mainstream media. You got you know you got a set to set the record straight. That's no doubt in your mind that they all colluded together by ever gets its apparent on the face again, the look I think the biggest examples is the de and sees consultants. You know that the bought and paid for consultants who also had relationships or contractual relationships ever even with the FBI, we know Christopher Steel paid- and this is through judicial Watch- freedom of Information ACT, Findings within the law a few years, he was pay.

It eleven times by the FBI in the year twenty sixteen. So I'll he's being paid by the Dnc right right and widely and their law and their law firm, Perkins coolly. And at the same time, the FBI, I'd stewed caught him, offers a source because he's leaking things to the press, yes, and then they go through somebody else in the Justice Department and the FBI. Somebody in the FBI says hey if you with them. You Know- let us know- what's going on, I mean they're still getting information, so what does that mean to you is, is it is our job just apartment, FBI, CIA? Is it fundamentally broken? I think it is I think elements of it are, and I think you know there are some people- small handful of people at the highest levels, both within d, o J and

equally in the White House who are trying to fix the situation but you know, there's a lot of institutional momentum and in a lot of bad actors, and these people are individuals who have worked together, knowing many years or even decades, right, so You know you look out for you, you, your brother, If you well, you look out. You watch each other's backs exactly so with the Russians. It's even it seems even more clear to me, if you hadn't, been recruited. Eric attempted to recruit, never that the fire a warrant for you.

Is even weaker than I thought it was ended. So let's go through the final word. Did they accuse you of to the judges. While its end, the most interesting element of it. Is spin partially declassified right. You know it's about four hundred pages you know give or take hundred pages for each of the you know the first warrant in October. Twenty sixteen just couple weeks before the election, and the renewables right during the transition team in January of twenty seventeen and then too, in brought in June of twenty said in doing so, problem. The reason why it's difficult to answer your question a lot of, that remains blacked out in rejected right there are. You know you see

I've never seen it and that the problem- and this is in us some of that it speak step- a part of ITALY Galilee of all this. There is in you. We ve talked about the Watergate situation, one around the same time when that whole scandal was going on. There is a law passed by the: U S, Congress, the privacy act of nineteen. Seventy for this is it similar, foyer Friedman, information act in many ways which the press, The other I've had. Citizens can use to try to get a government information, the difference Privacy act is if the the information is actually about the individual, so at the government hold what's known as court could a system of prince about? U yours, you have the right. As you know as defined by law to review that information number one

and also you know, Comment in request changes right, I have never been given that opportunity whatsoever, and I and I have asked that going back may of two thousand seventeen I put in a request to the o J today FBI National security winds and you know that a secret court had in convened about you. That everything you did read saw typed talk too, was being monitored. I got some, I got so glimpses of it, and you know there are some somewhat speck what seem to be somewhat speculative news reports. You know right before the election, a chemist, part of the election, your fear and of oh there's, something she you going on, and the intelligence community is looking into it, which

totally base time enough falsehoods, Ben's span and now by information and had to be released by government. Somebody yet you someone again, you know there is released, and in our again for an hour. Spurred or in a who exactly did what we're still waiting to fight tat know. So so. What was your first inkling that you were being monitored and when did you actually know? Why? Thank you, probably the most definitive report about This was in April of twenty seventeen, and that's that's the first time that you were like. Oh my gosh, they ve been watching me so well,

bit he now been- is a past tense. Yea brought well, it's. They are watching what that was my, but the been is, was my assumption right. Actually asked in Vienna the money before in March of two thousand seventeen I had you know about ten plus hours of beatings, with the FBI with FBI agents. Lord, how and others actual, I hope they weren't actual beatings. But what me meeting sums. Our meetings it easy I want is a target muscle in me. It's funny. You say that the beatings literally, I would put it presented- the FBI agents in March, two thousand and seventeen evidence of the death threats that I was getting, including in I've. I've You know I've, provided this in some court filings that I've submitted, but bit in March on March Twentieth twenty seventeen

literally the it does voicemail that in our time about beating me over my head and then with a baseball bat in so it yes, I guess inadvertently, I meant meetings, but we did talk about ya, feeding the beating threats right and a lot of other death threats getting shot at cetera. Sounds over these at meetings that they asked forth. Were they interrogating you or you asked for while I had a love, it's funny right when this defamatory news article that the Dnc was and their consultants were trying to place an associates we're trying to place in the media throughout the summer of twenty. Sixteen, which is final, published on Friday September. Twenty four twenty sixteen ice. And a letter to then FBI, director James, call me I e held him a one page letter just

explaining how ridiculous this whole thing was and I asked in that letter read you know I had offered. You know this- is it obvious how ridiculous these false allegations, which have been set out, spread in the media by the Democrats. It are, I think, any with any common sense would understand that if of any questions, and you don't agree or if I can provide any other information. As I have done, you know going, many many years to both the FBI and CIA Gimme a call. Not only did they not call Glenn a couple weeks later. They you know, use the Dnc consultant to get this fraudulent Pfizer approved and then they did again in

January of twenty seventeen, so wasn't until many months later, close in over five months later that in early March, one of the FBI you know a pair of FBI agents can walk up to me, unannounced and in our say, well, we'd like to like to talk to you and they had a copy That letter, you know for five months later, while they're using this defamatory information, spreads, the Democrats and also you know sir throughout the mainstream media. But you didn't know about fires agreed and know what they were doing a lot they again. There were some kind of somewhat speculative reports in eroded in a right before the election, personally I like ass, not kind. I say you know there is still a lot. I know right now, there's still a lot, you don't know you now on your people, like you,

this weekend, been really trying to dig hard to get this information on through. You know any any way possible talking terms of asking the right questions We're stole all getting block. So yes, there are some hard evidence that we're getting. We gotta four hundred and eighty page inspector Jenny our report, which came out in December of twenty nineteen but you know it's the tip of the iceberg, there's so much more. I guess I'm asking is it kind of like a friend who thought this weekend that he had cancer thought? I spent a lot of time of those last weekend. I'm sorry talking you talking through that end and he would go through periods of real despair. And then real hope, and because I've been through this before I I wondered how he was gonna react once he got the news one way or another because

There's something about not knowing for sure that gives you a little bit of hope. You know to mean so was it? Is I don't like that moment when you find out that the government has reading everything been watching everything that you, you had a little bit a hope that, maybe that's not really going on Glenn Look I know for sure, and what I I've known for sure for three years already is Using your analogy there is a serious cancer. That country is suffering from based in started with this, metastasized king of the rush, a collusion hoax to me, you know in answer to your question that is the biggest problem and in a thing at the forefront of my mind, their souls the things that I'm starting to do to you no help help by

Sure if you well for both my son, often for our entire country by litigation is one of those things absolutely your confidence level I I'm I'm very confident that my case is incredibly strong. The thing which sometimes gives me a little bit of caution is I know- what's been done- even federal courts, my fault filings by: U S part, one of justice and private. In petitions, the DMZ and media organisations in terms of some of my initial la battles. So and look I mean, that's kind of that. At caution is right for that. Caution is a key he story line, the inspector General report right those seventeen errors and omissions. So what you know

the caution I know case if we're kind of base, things exactly upon the facts and in a what actually happened, I have the strongest case in the work of the challenge becomes when you have really dishonest people. Being in the mark of secrecy, spinning and playing games. So I went I had to go to court. As I was being sued and I had I had documents, federal documents that were given to me by half federal agent, who said this is gonna, be exposed. I exposed it. Then what has the date by the way, our year. Why do you need The Obama Minister, that's that's my main. Quite I'm. Ok, so I have the documents? Had them

and showed that the government was absolutely lying and protecting their there. You know agenda and the cost of it was very high. Well, I I am taken to court and The government shows up there are six White House attorneys and they say in open court we will never release these documents and the court orders them to release them not going to do it. They open I defy in open court were now going to release them there finally, they have to release them and we had a stack of papers about their big all of it rejected except a couple of words here and there and are, documents you could open up and go ok see play twenty three seed.

That words there. It didn't help if the government wants to destroy you and wants you to lose winter there's no higher court, who are you going to so, you ve seen this apparatus, you ve seen what they have they this Jason Bourne stuff for your life, you know I mean and people don't think that those things are real, but they are that kind of stuff happens when you're playing ball at a global level. S too such power to lose here. What Gives you boy scout hope, Mr Eagle Scout that justice will be done for you and Eric. I think there is a lot of momentum right now number one again

sort of consistent with what he's done since he came down the elevator, a trumpet tower back in two thousand fifteen, the president is committed to really making Amerika great again, and this is a key part of it right, but he is he hated. Might my thought originally was? He was really truly hated by press and by the other can it's because he was so unconventional. He wasn't I'll- do any of the same standards- he could say crazy things get away with it. He was elected, but my, effective. Now is he's for by the power in Washington so much because whether intends to or not he's just exploding all over the place and its exposing the

entire sick twisted game. That's been played in Washington, which is more accurate. I think, thereby fact, your head end, I think, there's a coalition. If you well between the bad actors in each of those categories that you're on your own bidding tail in EL, particularly in a Washington context. A lot of this Washington bad actors who have been there for a long time. Know how to manipulate the system on the other side of that equation, so it say- It's a vicious circle. If you will. What do you know about Christopher Steel before. It's important question and it actually ties together a lot of things: you're you're, alluding to I found out in timber of two thousand, sixteen that the demo

Rats had hired some. Opposition in o consultants to dig up dirt on Then candidate trump, including myself, and I knew that there was some entities and individuals in London who working on this, so again and we started to talk about what happened. A transition period between you don't want I'll leave of absence from the trout campaign and the weak. After that, survey, amatory news report in September, two thousand, sixteen, but I actually. Again why I'm? Having all these death threats? I went to South Africa Gus Over one, I've done some work there before I spent some time thereof, colleagues and unlike,

maybe I can be safe here when I'm having all these death threats and so from South Africa in late tooth late October. Two thousand. Sixteen I there is a mission, the Organisation for security and cooperation in Europe, does an election monitoring. Countries around the world and they They assess election interference in a lot of countries too clay you no more problematic in you, know some rodya third world than than other, but You know there is an election monitor with hundreds of monitors. Doing this in the United States twenty sixteen election. I and a letter a protests, letter or kind of you, not notification of the human rights abuses in not know while I was down there and South Africa in I e mail that to the president, or the President in office, the chairman

the head of the OECD knew who who is now actually the President of of Germany, as well. As you know, the kind of the main person on the ground- a british lady, and out of abuses. Did you see we are set to the point us that's wrong kind of leading with this I kind of explained the you know this hoax witches, which was just starting toward. I explain to MR call me several weeks earlier in the wake of this defamatory report. But I explained to them, and I also mentioned there is a line in their it's about a four five page letter. A line, and there are saying that you know. I understand that there are opportunities in London who have been hired. The allude to the fact there in working in concert with a law firm.

And so I notified the the OECD, this international organisation, about this terrible election interference campaign to try to undermine president. Our candidate trump and die, and american democracy and the response I e, I think someone may have asked them about their. They ended up doing little report right around the time of the election can have ended in the days filing and the like. Well enough, it's funny, I believe the response was words to the effect of well. This is something needs to be figured out via by people domestically that alike, enough long story short. They they gave the message up. You know we're not going to hop wait into this. This big story it okay! So let me go through something in the Mulder report.

The investigation did not establish that page coordinated with russian government in its efforts to interfere with the twenty? Sixteen presidential action, however, with incomplete, evident Your testimony about who page may have matter communicated with Moscow his activities in Russia, as described in his emails with the Trump campaign, were not fully explain that mean more span right, that the three Democratic operatives who interrogated me for the great at in front of the grand jury. You know they had started the similar tone and just a really nasty approach by all of them and look, I mean, there's just trauma Despite this and tremendous spin right, the IRA me of that statement, you just met our red. Glenn was think

I have been. I was under surveillance for a year. They ve gone through every everything and they couldn't find anything because nothing existed, but they couldn't find anything to advance their false. You know, Dnc crafted storyline so Gonna, throw some more fine old dirt. That's the kind of walking out there already gone back. To you're a big time law firms and the spending that debt to advance your personal career debt at the cost of myself, but so many others and again I always bear in mind with his big mullah report dead. You know the Obviously they have a lot of hatred for me and a lot of other trump, and you know members of the Trump movement, but at the end of the day they they really just hate our president right now

Did you ever come across any of them any of them at any level that were like? Do them sorry to have to ask you this or arrive It was there any indication, anyone Any time was seeing the abuse that, from the inside, well that that sort of the sad part about a clam preside. Yeah I saw and at its in the Mulder report that I had five meetings with the FBI in March of thousand seventeen couple couple months after the inauguration towards the end of those five meetings. You know their grip on me pretty hard you. These are kind of up to close three hours or in a long sessions- and I always brought my laptop to those sessions- and I would kind of I bring like a thumb dry it can give them more and more documents. Little did. I know that they had already had they

to my my computers and had been well her tapping the fur for many months so and I kind of the twin box or whatever I spent on that. You asked me DR they laughed. They know they didn't laughter. Good kind of you know. I mean to themselves when they got it perhaps, but and this kind of where I'm going with this. The end of those meetings. They said to me well Originally it was kind of asking me direct questions in there. Yeah, it's just so ridiculous on their face of new times they would say you now. Our bosses, one wonders DAS. This in MRS you know then the director was mister. Call me and the deputy director was, you know my cave, and so I understand that in our maybe these are not there.

A lot of great people on the FBI, as well as the CIA and you know throughout our our government, but you know the bigger issue is, I know there is gonna high level operatives who are partisan and political who are really he's trying to fear and our election, but also cause. Much damage is possible to to President Trump in the air. Beginning, then you know in the years since, as we have unfortunately seen my Tina. Donald Trump has changed an awful lot in some regard He has not done some things that I thought he would do, which I thought would very destructive. He's done some of those things by just tweeting all the time. But he has

Also he's done a lot of good things and he had no credit for it at all some of the policies, some of the things like this. If he can expose this and stop this. He may be. The most consequential in a positive direction students sense, when I put him in, Ledge Reagan. And even Lincoln on the amount of good that can be done if he can rule this out, but he does and seemed to have it in me, allies and I talked to senators and congressmen Quite honestly, in private they'll tell me how spooked they are by all of it. That's a real scary thing can pay. Then in Trump stop this well

You know- and I mentioned as international fugitive my going to South Africa and I actually went to the home- of Nelson Mandela in always hometown us Soweto near near Johannesburg and really you know what he went through is very much similar to what President trump on thorough and really my gosh is that going to cause a media storm saying well harder page compares Nelson Mandela and Donald Trump. There is evidence that the CIA was involved in some of when, when Mandela was trying to eight some change in South Africa during the part I'd regime CIA in which had club in the: U S: government hadn't ties with the with South Africa an aid for China, keep things in the US

Ablishn meant certainly heading in the direction that is in. The way they they want. To go, and he the guy you know similar to candidate Trump, try. You know trying to shakes things up and make things gonna. Better new direction for their country, and I think there is another similarity between those two is when someone has a such yeah it was through those trials. You know he spent in. I spent time in Cape town too and you know spit he was in jail in in it on an island. Therefore, I think seventeen years or something like that. Makes you stronger in a lot of ways right to kind of understand that corrupt and these people who are coming after you so aggressively it

makes you stronger if you can kind of go through that crucial and Emma victorious- and I think were deciding similar to you- know all the impact that done. President Mandela has as its very similar in many ways. Do you if you hadn't at head something if you had had something to hide anything because I've, I've lived a life where we have people through our garbage and my wife, and I just laughed when we found people were going through a garbage, because we are open book speak to the being an open book and how of that. How important that is when you go through something like this,

well yeah I mean. I, I think that just a sort of finnish, the thought with those meetings in March of twenty seventeen right, and, being that open book at information which I'm giving to the FBI. Again, similar to what you have experienced and in what way, what we ve been talking about. It, gifts, Mun, right, in no way, sometimes it's the old Miranda Rights statement. Anything you say can and will be used against you, and these people are very creative when they of a agenda both inside government. You know bureaucracy he is, but also political opera is in government but also in the media and the kind of the intersection between those two

Tatoosh ins and unfortunately, you know if you have a very big negative impact, but couple of couple of thoughts, this Ukraine story, this whole impeachment. I believe, and I'd love to hear your thoughts are just a most a cover up of all of this. They Nancy Pelosi didn't impeached. They didn't have anything but once tried started going to somebody that just I'd be crazy enough to say yeah. I want to clean up my country that the Democratic Party, produce did not have control love. They came out fast. We have two halves in the story before the story is spun against us. Would you agree with that

a hundred and ten percent, and I there's tons of evidence that directly supports that not coming out that way, because the press is running, you know all of the all the place for them, but these that the same tactics used against you are arse dill, being run. For instance, Rudy Giuliani was America's mayor. He was the guy who the Gambino crime family away? You know and I look at anybody who can really be effective in New York and no new. Probably your point probably no talking to some people that you know the good folks back in Iowa, are not necessarily talking do as Rudy said, you can't

investigate the crime families, unless you have some sources inside the crime families to help do it that's, I believe what he was doing over in their he's. The present the attorney trying to find out first The houses Russia thing going on. How is your five? How did that happen? Where does that leave em right to Ukraine. And now we don't know that the guy. Who was a mess because mayor the guy who put the Gambino away now, oh, is russian Return of dirty, he colluding, and an end to the same thing that happened. He was happening to him. Yeah and I am always very cautious. I've never met mere Giuliani, but on the face of it

so many elements of that story. I think you're absolutely right enough from what I from what I can gather as a threat, party and as an outsider, I definitely see those was repeats happening vote for him, but also everyone. Well, we billion, while did directly the guy that there really trying to take down, which is the person the Oval office and Where is what what's, going to mean in the end here what how do you think this plays out? I think its were at a really critical time, and people need to take very serious steps, and I know you ve thought you ve often had done TED crews, senator crews from the great state of texas- here he he has been a growing force to really fight back against this bureau

bureaucratic now, either since end and teeth. He has really been a great inspiration, but I think there is enough quite a few individuals and again you need you need support. As you correctly alluding to it's. It's a lot more difficult when you try to do things on your own. I've talked to us matters. There are a lot of senators. They just don't want to get in to whistle blower staff and all that in the empty when trial should they were. I think, in all of this is the tip of the iceberg. I think any I know senator cruises sorted started to say that in terms of either if you are witnesses, can you wanta jumble, and then people like that fine, but we need reciprocity. We need sort of an equal approach and I believe in from

I'll, be assertive basic evidence that, if all actually happened. It would be a complete disaster for the Democrats, given all the and the State Department and the intelligence and the FBI, which makes me think either you keep saying tip of the iceberg, ass well, the iceberg above the waters. Here, it's this yes, nobody sees That is the real problem, exactly how big is what's underneath the surface that would not have. None of us have seen it's funny, I've talked about that and I have had various assumptions over time. And you know just back in December. In December two thousand nineteen. We get this big idea report. You know I always knew was bad. We get this in Durham idea report for an eighty pages with showing more evidence, so it it just keeps getting worse and worse. So

the guy who will clean this up our attempt to claim and clean it up. I've never met him. I don't know ten, but just sort of honour a radical level and what what he said, In some of these speeches, it's been a great insight. Patient so, for example, his Federalist Society speech last year. He Hannah he talks about some these themes, but also at Notre Dame LAW school. You know in terms religious liberties etc. I think key is a incredible force, but he also from what I can tell and faces a lot of the same challenges that President Trump has faced number one with people in the Peer permanent bureau. Merci, who are not supporting him fully or anywhere near fully number one number two, the media right, any He does is

you know from what I've seen thus far again would know first hand experience, but if you just The right thing, verse, Ino says reality there. After him even more aggressively. So, for example, when the after general report came out and December nights. Two thousand my team and two days later, the you know Mr Harbour's testified in the Senate judiciary, He made some statements that just showed you know, sort of underscored how serious this problem is. F, a lot of lots of people on the media that we were saying. Oh he's just couldn't quit the president's lawyer, personal lawyer gonna fix no he's just it stating reality and again sometimes, Headwinds of the media have negative me. Your forces as well as a permanent bureaucracy? Forces are pretty strong, but I think it

each instance return Asia. Bar and present interim, have great strength of character and great. Great leadership skills, so I am cautious, they optimistic a few years ago, when you first joined the Trump campaign. I imagine with your record with your international skills there be a possibility of you. He had not saying that you did think this, but thinking my can go anywhere from me. I could be an ambassador as I've, if served I've done these things. I know these countries. I know these people not pay. Globally, on your horizon at least to day? What is the net. Where do you go from here? You're sorry not going into media

I mean. I would think that the president, when he sees an injustice. Maybe he he does to end serve some place, but how you gonna do that past you know how you gonna do that? Where do you go? What do you? Do it look AIDS, the same challenge, I think, to your point. Anyone I've had some of his similar worldview d bureaucracy and democratic forces, and the media came after them. Five times it's more aggressively right, So am, I think, a good ample? What's so this when that is a cough report, came out that on Friday September, twenty third twenty sixteen

for the weekend they ve got. This is a joy red show on MSNBC and who is with her but are with that it. So is office. Aghast talking about is big. Defamatory report with with her with the two Adam is Ambassador Michael make fall. Who was Obama's ambassador to Russia. And he and I have sparred over the years but similar, ok it around the time of the election in November. Two thousand, sixteen. I believe he tweeted out that is your page gonna be the ambassadors to Russia, and I mean it was it's one of those things where they really these headwinds itches. It's such a huge challenge, not only just fight this permanent bureaucracy, but also

yeah. The problem with individuals right. You know who I think, along lines or what you're, what you're leading into who's gonna want to deal with that. I actually met. A person whose who is still in the administration, worked on it campaign and I met one of their family members this year, I'm sorry I last year on twenty nineteen in the EU, They said to me that guy through all of this in our mauler Witch Hunt and related processes, I mean it's, these are huge costs and you people are on a government, salary and legal costs involved so it's a really quite daunting ETA, and I again this is this another example where I am more concerned about you know, number one, our country, and what this is done to so many innocent intervene,

in this year. This cost save pay and I mean I said. I accept my apologies to bear to their family, saying that in part of it I think this gets to their point like what body? Where do you go from here? Had he had to deal with this? I think anything. I can do to help fix fundamental system can have very. Positive impact in itself, away of serving that can be very important force, and maybe even more important for us outside of government, and I now just knowing your show uncanny getting the word out that there are there's a lot. There's huge value and you know you're. The service you do is is great and just just a finnish a point we were talking about this

DNA report in January, if twenty seventeen and the government propaganda just I when that Yahoo NEWS Defamatory article came out in September, two thousand sixteen Thou forty five before the election result rate though Free Europe, which is governed, Wes government sponsored propaganda, outlet, Reba, I'd gas that an defamation context. If you re broadcast something, you know it's it's also illegal right, so this is a: U S: government funded Media began to outlet witches putting out this false report any not like? We were saying that even CNN York Times Washington, Post Wall Street Journal big. They really steered clear of this false these. You know these libelous allegations, but here

You are you, are you have a? Obama, administration led me: agency, government began agency, which is advancing this false story. Industry paid for by your tax and Oliver Tax dollars and that's a radio free Europe that year and twenty sixteen, I believe, I have the statistics in front of me, but I believe it is around over hundred million dollars a year organization paid for by Europe spare dollars and smearing, you'd, make sure you don't. Perhaps have a good name overseas, and what would it be interesting thing? Not only overseas there The change of the law right in the middle, the Obama administration, the National Defence Authorization ACT of two thousand and thirteen. It said

they change the law. These propaganda agencies were created a similar to the CIA. They were created at the outset in right at the beginning of a cold war than I believe in the nineteen fortys and a third. Though, by law, these organizations could never transmit into the United States these foreign. You know operations government operations to try to, Florence opinion in foreign jurisdictions, particularly sort of Warsaw Pact in former Soviet Union. They ain't the lie in right in around the middle of the Obama administration, to choose that law to say now you can broadcast the United States, so that two thousand Sixteen was the first time ever presidential election, where he know there

their unleashed. This rapid dogs of disinformation are unleashed advancing political objectives against since you are citizens. Including candidate drop in September two thousand sixteenth year, you your very loyal to him. I mean you if you ve, made this not about you- you ve always pointed out it's about him. It's about our country located in very correct you briefly here any it's an inspiration. Is it's been sort of my modus operandi He always said during the campaign in two thousand Sixteen and he said it throughout the time since you know. What are you hear what he personally went through and he's gone through? much more than than I could ever even imagine, but

he always says you know he had a quota. It's not about me. It's about us right. This is about a move. To have passed a change in our country and that I think when I started have this philosophy it sort of is understanding the value of that, but also you know just to be clear. I never even met Donald Jake, you now either as a candidate or in the years since or any time even before the campaign. Never met now and the interesting thing, and not the this before, spin right. You are, Volunteer committee. Had one meeting in I believe it was some around March. Thirty first twenties steam battle. Week or so after we were announced it previously booked a trip out

to meet with top military leaders in Hawaii. U S Pacific command, which is again of as an open these kind of off the record meetings, but it has been leaked and the time since so much it's it's been acknowledged, but I'm I'm with a lot of top, Morals and generals in our fellow military veterans Adena enough, eight thousand miles away from this one meeting of our committee, and so- and I united, already kind of pre arranged. This might my travel it's all set and I'm I'm the other side of what would you say to him if he saw him you met him just I think. Just to express appreciation for how much he's done to help improve our country and to advance these these elements, but also, I think you know tee point about you know serving within an administration. I just understanding some of the

operatives and just how how much mouth Since then, it goes back to the hour tip of the iceberg point in theirs, so much more when you start digging into details about this, and I think splaining some of those details and is looking at the altar in making sure that you know we had a full scan but there are doing it again so perfectly apple. Are these ridiculous peach meant hearings in two thousand and eighteen, with all these people were telling their personal stories, and it's like the of some New York Times, opinion column sense. People are given no facts, no kind of first hand, facts whatsoever, just opinion and disagreement in Austria that point when people arse consistently smashed who

who share a similar world view too, our commander. In chief, what's Is the permanent posts class in these these opera, as you have perpetuated, these negative forces, but we'll see place up. Hopefully it plays out well and plays out well for you in court, going after the government and the media and it goes well for president and anyone else who has been smeared in wrong, bad guys go to jail. I'd like to I believe that happens in America Carter. Thank thanks so much closer to be with you just a reminder

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