The blaze radio network on demand This is the best of the Glen Bank Programme courage, shrink back the arrogant, geek out just a little bit. It's kind of an exciting day. For me, I wanted to talk to this guy, since I read is first novel fatherland, which is what my favorite books of all time. I just love it. And you know I've never been big enough to be able to get him on eight. He, So did I can't remember the name of the book the code I'll, have to ask him about it. Another great book lots of great great stories. and great novels from Robert Harris. He is,

author of a new novel, Munich and It is all about the Munich Treaty And- level, Chamberlain and what happened with Hitler but heat he takes it the way he always does and works U story, line into. It welcomed the programme Robert Harris, our user by well, then you me on. You bet you over in London now I'll just outside, not far from Oxford, taken the country. It's? It's really have you on. I want to talk to a little bit about the of the book, but I don't. I don't want to spoil it for anybody and I don't spoil it for me- cause I'm I'm halfway through, but You know it it. It revolves around never Chamberlain and I'm not a real fan of never level Chamberlain and, and he gets kind of a bad rap

Why are you what what? What? What is your attraction there, and I I seem d that you are a fan of his There was a fattened to be honest, but I do think, though, some stories in history which are really quite opposite to what most people think about thirty years ago. I did a documentary on BBC Television about the fiftieth anniversary of the Munich agreement is going to be there. She's anniversary this September, and I discovered that it was completed What I thought in particular about six will regard this is a terrible defeat. That alone, I think most people don't understand and- I wrote Father landed as you mentioned, but I always had in mind the back of my mind to decide to write a novel about them, This agreement- and I have the idea of riding it from the point of view of one of the official sue, flew out with Chamberlain to meet Hitler in September

thirty eight and then I then I decided I also have a German carried to travel. Another fact was train from Berlin to meet. Trembling a militant. So you follow these two men who were friends who were Oxford University together as they had towards Munich. Gonna, give me What unit is the first hand, account of both Hitler and of Chamberlain Oh, how much a pouch Robert of the novel is is really close to true, let, for instance, thee the plot to kill Hitler. At that point it was that going on, oh yes, everything in the book really pretty well, it's true, apart from these two invented characters, ample you, like it german Englishman. Yes, I mean it S. Actually, what happened with the paper

decided at the beginning of the sum of ninety thirty, eight that he would for the first I'm invade another country You should all this to the german army to prepare to White Czechoslovakia off the face of the map. That was how he termed it: The army came back and said they could reckon they could do this, but five or six weeks and hatred the plans bugger women said I wanted. I want to be in Prague within a week. The german army took fright at this. It was the first time that they really woke up to the fact where he was likely to lead them and for the first time ever, contacts between opposition elements in Berlin and the british government in London, and there was a slightly crazy scheme. If the british and French declared war to try and arrest Hitler, don't actually think it was that serious, but solely with the real first,

giving the rumblings overresist. Hitler's the Germans realise what what wherewith headaches? the prize win Chamberlain arrives in Munich, that there were. You know the womb PA bans that were without were playing. You know the popular tunes from England that the crowds cheered him. I always thought of, of the Germans not for peace, and that's not what if not what it was all know, absolutely no doubt many historical record about that. Hitler accorded all report- this, including the american newspapers, with everything much louder chairs whenever he appeared and Hitler God and at those fears about this One of the reasons I wrote the novel was because I came across the channel. Is the german journalists Coolio confessed? Who was the ghost around the memoirs about, but spare the disarmament minister Then the story, the first aspect

back in the sixties, what the people feel about Munich and the speaker said with a little rage for two weeks of the Munich, He wouldn't even speak to his private staff, which was unusual for him, and then all came pouring out for the private social occasion? He said the german people have been fooled I'm fine novel chamberlain of all people. What he was referring to was the chamberlain, because he was the architect of a peace agreement. The german people staged a kind of anti had looked the test in the six year of his rule by chairing Chamberlain loudly whenever reappeared this accelerated there was one of the reasons why I think he drew back from attacking Czechoslovakia. So as I was reading this and you really kind of spell it out at very colorful thee, thee, clearance of everything with Hitler.

strong and militaristic and streamlined and no Mussolini is there. The same thing and here comes who's, the guy, you kind of looks like a walrus in another guy who looks old and frail coming to the meeting those You guys must have seen the English as complete, the things of the past and in just a week I think that's true. There was a great trust in Munich between you know about the fascist, the Germans and the Italians young man, in a small units, dowdy acquired elderly civilians in their crumpled suits cloning to Munich, but appearances a bit up to the one or the other reasons I wanted to put Chamberlain in the novel is that he is. He was a tough old. Winston Churchill said that about him too.

Is it really dominant prime minister? Here he busted Is it over his colleagues and he was quite value, an arrogant and his way German Don T figure was on war. He drank people mad, because Hitler was not really interested the pretext for war. Faced with the return of three and a half million Germans who'd been assigned to this new state of checks. Nineteen nineteen of the first World war, but that was under the pretext of reality, was because the people wonder the war conquest into the east subject I covering fatherland trembling with determined to keep Britain out of a war on this issue. We didn't have a check treaty changes were here, but the French did so

the tactics of that here. The French would have been legally obliged to go to check if the backers defence and the British would have felt obliged to stand by France would happen, the first World war with all the countries being dragged in travelling, wanted to avoid this, so he actually flew to see Hippolyte, which was a sensational development, especially for man and the seventy simply idea, and it was a grave mistake on it with power to agree to see Chamberlain, because Chamberlain naturally asked him what were his grief, I'm told him I'm trembling said: leave it with me I'll see what I can do effectively, I'm. They remove headless pretext for war. He said what is the concern is the same, million german today then I'll show you

show them that whether majority is german for those loans to be transferred to Germany, and this is work force data in the back down a global said. You can't find a war on details and Hitler couldn't do it and so He missed that opportunity for war at the beginning of the novel. I thought that quote from Hitler in the bunker. In February, one thousand nine hundred and forty five, when he said we should have gone to war in nineteen, thirty eight September, nineteen thirty eight- would have been the perfect time and throughout it was felt he recited the year too late because of Munich. It wanted to invite friends in eighteen, thirty, nine it wanted to obey the Serbian and a mighty forty, and instead is time table was too months behind and in that time the British? I'm more particularly, the Russians. a real massively

have you seen the movie darkest hour yet? Yes, I have. Would you think of that? I thought it was good. They spend attainment. I thought it was a brilliant performance by guy element here, I am sympathetic to Chamberlain slightly more than most people. I felt that it was up, her own because, first of all, who built the spit files that were fighting the buffer, Britain Chamberlain did when he spent fifty percent of british government revenues on rearmament and ninety thirty nine, an enormous amount for country, a piece they also chamberlain because of his experience, dealing with Hitler, backed Churchill in rejecting any suggestion of listening to peace terms. I'm because children about time as leader of the Tory Party, his was a decisive voice and most people think the Chamberlain wanted to do a deal with Hitler. The opposite is the case. He supported Churchill very strongly with the decisive voice

the twenty seventh of main item, forty of the cabinet meeting, where it was decided to not even hear what its peace terms were You deserve. We win Looking at today's world, and you're seeing everything. That's going on your dear beneath and so good at this you look it. History. and use see, missed opera, Communities or chances for things to two have been different, What do you think we're going to look back over the last twenty years and answer If this event was understood at the time, it would have changed things. Well, I think you know history is it is it? Is it beguiling subject, because it enables you to go back and see where people went wrong?

quite to the front of my book, is from a great british historian, go left W Maitland, who said you must always remember. The work now lies in the past once lay in the future Chamberlain. Didn't know that if the plan the Holocaust nobody could perceive actually have the nazi regime would go. You can only deal with things as they are, as they appeared here. Obviously, though, a huge forces at work in the world today the way of finding a very hard to even understand, let alone respond, I think there are large degree to do with technology and that the way that is completely transforming our society, destroying the assumptions on which most of us have built. Our lives is frightening, climate change and often after

long period of relative stability, which we have had since nineteen forty five. This leads to a kind of complete revolution in a way that situation with those who now reminds me, rather the prayer for nineteen fourteen or fails to do something big coming along oh, I wouldn't do that. I don't know I'm a positive point. My main ignore voice of these two men, these two young men- I sort of trapped by history Having to be cousinly, abysmal, nothing I individually can do, although they try to do it and it feels that history is reach one of them. points. Do not I mean there's something big is happening here but he can quite grasp it. Yeah you can. You can feel a term, you can feel it coming Robert do have saint. Can you hang on while we take a quick break? The absolute ok Robert Robert Harris. The author of the book. Munich

it is out now it's a novel. He's a tremendous rudder. If you ve never read a Robert Harris Book, you should and you can start with Munich, the novel noted other Robert Harris, the author of the new book, Munich, the novel it is about the the Munich the cords and- and- and will Chamberlain and and Hitler Duke in it out? and what we kind of misunderstand I am finding out as I'm reading this chamberlains, you know, will we have peace in our day? That was the Munich treaty, and Hitler saw that as a loss, it's a great, a thrilling novel and that I think you're really enjoy Robert is what my one of my favorite authors, I fell in love Stuff, with fatherland, which came up the nineties and I'm upsetting you can't ion Kindle anymore

Oh, fatherland. I've also read five or six of your books. Robert end, one of them I want to talk to you about is the fear index a minute ago, you said you know you were concerned about technology and how that's gonna change us, and the fear index is is a high gone crazy it made. It makes you look at a I in a completely different way, each one manager in them, Geneva, who used to work for the large hadron collider allude, set up an article. The intelligent algorithmic trading operation, which, like Frank, five months to in Geneva and goes out of control, and I had a lot of fun writing it. But, as you say it, you know it's a pretty it's a pretty frightening.

Superstructure over the world. This this fund, show the trade in most of the stern understand it, and we ve seen you know into from the night. What happens when it gets out of control like all our lives and in a way the world has never really recovered. The disaster of the complexity of the financial world and the way in the end it cool so much trouble. What is SAM is a writer. If I said to you, twins the more believable scenario. North Korea, launches Putin, oh, you know, nefarious ways. Kind of Kabul together the old Soviet Union and is, is, is deeply embedded in all of our systems and turns us against each other or. Financial dooms that that decision,

traps, all of us and in the main, to something ugly. Well, I mean you know the second to cleave to emerge. Good. That's what's her frightening North Korea, I think webs in a weird saw the way there is a kind of mad insane rationality to the north korean regime and that they would blow their brains out lost any sort of attack and people generally on quite back They may look kid, but something like pretended that gradually shape. to a conflict that gets out of hand that much more the way things go in history. Russian occupation of the Crimea Really the nearest thing would seem to be sedate land cry out,

I'm, not those reading your book, what do anything now not really that they put on sanctions, but that was it as I am reading Munich and he's talking about that and I had other all I could think of, as this is exactly the same argument that the Putin was making yes and costly super. The western got much I'm a most western people, the Crimea, seems to be Russia's backyard. You know you assume that it was ready for most people will there's no abbot I rarely to fight, will suffer over an issue like that? Just as I do think there was much uniting thirty eight in Britain Bang. twenty years after the first World WAR, where the british alone had left, we called for a million men killed, but no appetite to fight over that issue, and that's one of the things you ve got. Think about it, I think you gotta put it in the context of its time. Chamberlain said he thought there would be a spiritual breakdown in Britain if the ordinary people didn't see there

he's trying to do everything possible to avoid another great war. Are you destroyed his reputation, trying to avoid it, but I think in the end it did do service. Even personally in giving the country more to rearm and also it made it- gave it a moral superiority in strength at church who was able to draw on as we soon die. The name of the book is Munich. A novel. The author is Robert Harris Robert. Thank you so much godless it better I should like to thank you. This is the best of learned, so Netflix as an automobile with Jack lacked called the poker king and the bulk of king is an actual guy and a start Looking into it. When I thought we we have to talk to this guy His name is John Le Juan and he is from Poland

He was born in Nazi controlled Poland and grew up under the Soviet Union. Came over here, wanted to make it big fell. do a ponzi scheme. I should say he started it. Under this scheme and others fell into it. He lived. The high life met the Pope, Pope John Pope John Paul, the second, real notoriety in the polar world his limbs music was nominated for Grammy, and then he went to jail where he was stabbed in prison. He is out now, and has a whole lot. Time of interesting stories welcome one the law on. How are you, sir, hi? How are you you are very good. So so I start with when. When did you come over here in the United States in and what was lifelike back in Poland for you? Well, when you,

if you come on, you regime that delay is Sir qualify every day Couldn't trust nobody and the? U living always with appear that you're gonna be punished for for anything, I saw a light The community is definitely a very negative, very depressing. So you came under at the height of the Cold war with Ronald Reagan, which must have been at exactly So you come over here. You move to Pennsylvania, and who become the poker king, tell me that the full Jackie allowed that it came along the way I did it. I guess your question is how I went to that way. I learned that job.

Instead, you to pull and put the people who came here after the Second World WAR, and many of them cannot go back to Poland during Dick, become we use regime many cases they will find out in jail since they didn't come back up the second war. So there was the year of this, and- and there were all just there for me, because I was start learning English. Only the bed

but I was speaking polish and then my idea into due to my education, voluntary in there in the Catholic School in and this I I wasn't ready for that kind of entertainment with Paul cards and big, and I found that when I turned the polish fault music to Porthos. I kid I gain lots of Bob Viewers- I I mean they're, my my concert hall and then first about the fool to their last seat, because they they laughed the broken english poets and how I right? That's that's no about so the EU in them. In the in the movie with Jack Black, you appear to be a wide eyed. I love America and I'm gonna, make it big and and it seems as though you you don't really know what you're doing is wrong.

until later, but you, you started up a ponzi scheme Inuit, yet they tell me about it, and did you know that it was wrong at first, not not at all. I went with my counter to totally God legal adviser, and I was advised that too Everything gets why, a couple days later, we were again everything gets buying go ahead. I wasn't told I have to register that was then that was wrong thing on the beginning, not saw, I feel free to advertise. I I hope this is perfect. That's that's how I gonna build empire bright and how we use. What were you selling people well with a way to keep the promise already marked, which I offered them to return, and that was very easy for me on the beginning to pay dollar because

Poland, that time everything was penny Anita Amerika, you song for tens of dollars, so I cried the gift shop window carried the gift of Europe to you, have to have money to to do by the gap which I didn't have nothing so people who travel with me to Poland. They saw on their own eyes. Oh my god, The door closed, twenty five cents q. Only in Amerika I pay twenty dollars. Yeah yeah you shoot bipolar. You should get every thanks to America and you're gonna, get rich and we're gonna get rich, sure I go for it and that's called that start. Of course,

Later on, I learn I not I doing illegal think that its illegal, while I already have huge merchandising the sober, Amber those and everything just two to sell that I wasn't able to sell. The accident came about one day when the nine eleven came over and all things fall in parts might musician get killed. My son was suffering with terrible. We all were suddenly saw even die was stored, don't do it. I would keep doing, because when you drown you will touch anything. So I did wrong. Knowing that I doing drunk and I paid a high price for that, you went to prison for how long almost six years and

you were stabbed in prison, yes, because I should never finalized in such a terrible prison in Smart Emma, that's just for people who commit their climatic. A kick violent, returnable violent, most of them. The way killers add that somebody like me with the action to waiter, with lots of to be designed with the conversation they thought well. He is such as you know this guy, this guy. It's careful something go to what we call the child, which has nothing to do with that and they get angry. But that's what they

they in media. My opinion on that is different, some think well along some, how somebody did the job and the guy who who really caught my neck, her left and right. He got twenty five years on the top of his life sentence on making different put him away. He did that. I still don't know. I was very nice to hear my I'd back in coffee income historian everything and keep conversation, and then, and somehow you knock you got me when I was sleeping when you can't trust a killer. Who can you trust so yeah now you're, you're out Jack Black he's playing you in a movie wondered what does the future hold for you and what is your? What's yours,

attitude about your being here, yeah, well it before I got father did. Let me just say that I believe me, I'm very sorry for people who get caught in my situation who lost the money. I would do everything possible to to supply my restitution at much. I had a chance since says I'm paid for that, but I never thought that movie gonna change my light. Jug black told me that you were talking for six months every night for two hours on the face and there and he learned from the day I born

you know how they got everything so perfect in the movie. I still don't know I did send them some of my writing what I was doing through this year's imprison the daily from that, but I think I'll, just black was great influence to this clip ascribed to the script, writers, Maya and body that they did so perfect, because I dont see it maybe ten percent Hollywood. You know that that is, but now the movie give me up to the eyes of the right now in thousands of her

very nice comments, of course, the negatives as well. But next to him I should say what they writing to me. They probably just riding positive way, but the point is that they asking me right now to the concert- and I wouldn't do that- my music directors, deep Kaminski, who actually said the music in the movie we have in the movie way has top notch arrangements for big bent polka. It's not like you regularly, financing small trig. Ok, I dont know, did you saw the Bobby. I have not yet seen several clips of it, but I have not seen eye. I wish you well, I will, I will watch it got saw it that is they come at a man. I don't know about writing video here, she's supply.

wait, wait all of the footage which he travelled with me all the time you gonna see that in the movie they did everything I mean my gas twice ass big. I hope I got in general. Because I dont need money anymore. I wanna give took two people who suffer over that deadline: sorry. Believe me, I am sick about that. John Lalande, it's a pleasure to talk to you and I'm sorry, I didn't watch a movie. I had plans with to watch it with my family this weekend and something came up, so we didn't watch it, but I am anxious to see it you are, you are. You have led a very interesting life and I wish you all the best, Sir gutless. You know what I love about living in this. This time period is especially if you saw the posts to be seen the movie the post. Yet have not see that it's really good Worthing Buddy you'll see in that when they release the Pentagon papers in the New York Times is shut down. They say you can't

release anymore, there's no place to go washing imposed doesn't release him. There's no place to go. Government wins. You can't release the papers. It seems so odd that that new couldn't come out, but that's the way it was the Monica and ski stuff. It wasn't for Matt Drudge we may not have known that the internet chat, just everything back in the eighties. I remember trickle down economics and it was always lampoon and you could never. You could make a case. Could never make a a media case because you didn't have control of it. Going around the internet now washing and free beacon. Here What people said about trickled down economics and the President's tax plan, and what actually? happened once it was past. It failed

you're, relying on this tax cut of the cooperation of the wealthy to trickle down doubtless materialised, both in order to give a thousand dollars bonuses to employees following the taps. Overhaul wage increases, don't tax cuts like this are the world's largest retail, giving you S, employees a bonus, a wage increase and expand maternity and parental leave, your creating a huge tax cut right and you might not get wage growth like these capital, one financial, which just confirmed the CNBC that they will raise the minimum wage. But all you us, based employs capital, wonder fifteen dollars per hour, and anybody who thinks that this corporate tax is growing. Trickle down to whip wages. Has a staggering ignorance of how public companies function. far go said would raise its minimum wage for fifteen dollars per out. I mean it's. A vote is so sure of himself on that last one. Well, because you know what they could be sure of themselves, because there wasn't anybody,

would have given that information back in the eighties CBS, NBC or ABC didn't mean those oh stories about what the companies are. Actually the it didn't happen, I mean it was I didn't happen. now you have enough outlets and You have the control of the media yourself to where you can grab those snippets. You can edit those things and Couldn't show no, this is exactly what happens. They have no fear that The the liberals with trickled down economics had no fear you're of turning around on them because it were has, but now we have the internet. Recently to see these companies take these stance. normally please even companies that lean right, don't wanna take stands that associate themselves with Republicans publicly but this is such a clear win for companies and companies.

You this year. Our companies really do this event. I think people they want, ploys happy there might be selfish reasons for right. They want their dump their employees happy they'd like the pr, of saying: hey. We get a bunch of extra money to noteworthy, distribute that to the people who work for us. Their arms Selfish reasons for it, but who cares mates great, it's great that people are able to make plans. Long term plans now he's here. A permanent changes until women permanent determined as they get here. with lawmaking, but permanent changes for corporations and their able to really plan for their long term, companies well being and their employees while being this is a big change Jimmy it's not it's, not the most bowl attacks plain we ve ever seen its, not imagine imagine what would have happened had they done a flat tax rate

hush. If they would a larger lad tax rate, can you imagine the money that would have poured into the air families home shit I'm because this is really. It was really a more for corporate plan right. I mean not, particularly life changing when it comes to the individual side knows all take anything right, I'll write any any dollar amount. You gonna give me of my own money, all willingly accepted and act like you're doing me a favor Corporations are actually is a really big different cities. They no longer have to mean they don't have to make these big changes. There's somebody people who said it was gonna be a big deal, because their effective rate was slow. Anyway, it's shown to be above company a big deal, we should listen and respect those who have who lived through a mass shooting, especially after they have gained perspective. Patrick,

was a sophomore Columbine Highschool Window include and Eric Harris Massacre there classmates he was one. Lucky ones. He walked away with his life that day and he vowed that he would live a life of service because God had granted him that blessing of living? so Patrick went on to join the army. He served a tour in Iraq when he came home. He was elected to the Colorado State House of Representatives where he served his constituents. since twenty fourteen every year since he was elected? Patrick has introduced legislation to remove the restrictions unconcealed carry in school in the wake of the common Douglas shooting and the renewed call for gun control. Patrick, is pushing his legislation just as hard under the in Colorado law, any one who has a concealed carry permit, may bring firearms onto school property, but you have to keep them locked in By their vehicles, that's a quote from the law. Patrick says that doesn't go far enough.

His act would allow every law abiding citizen who holds a concealed, carry permit the right, defend themselves and others at all times. Patrick say time and time again we point to one common theme with the mass shootings they all or in gun free zones. As a we're Columbine student who was a of more during the shooting on April twentieth, nineteen I'd be nine. I will do everything in my power to prevent Colorado families from enduring the hardships that my classmates and I face that day. P are arguing and we're gonna continue to argue more guns. Rules more violence, but they forget that the vast majority of guns are in the hands of responsible and good people. There was a coach that stood in the way used his body to block if he had a gun.

How many could he have saved? He died a hero, but many died after him. The reality is we are bringing nothing to a gunfight with evil every single day? Perhaps we should have this conversation, but we should listen to. Besides, so we can give ourselves and our children a chance with an equal gender, I give you was it at all to the programme. You know that I read an awful lot and I could go through. Are you go through?

we're three bucks a week pretty easily, and I thought I would devour this book by air. Kurt Lander, Hitler's monsters. But this is too in me about a month to get through me Finally, because I get sidetracked and start looking up the things that he is pointing out, because you ve never heard any of this before and it will give you a couple of things, a new look on what allowed, the Nazi movement to really grow and grow deep roots for awhile and also the fact that now ha now. This was not a christian movement which a lot of people like to sick national social Hitler was a Christian. Now ha now there was not a christian movement, the only guy that has done serious work on supernatural. History of the third Reich is Eric Kurt lender and he D

just now, and I I want to make sure that you understand that this isn't some guy who, just like I just did some research. He has his hd of modern european history at Harvard from Harvard M M a modern European history Harvard Ba history at. Is it but Doin college. I too am not formally without wooden Boden Alex Elgin, Boden, yeah, belgian, ok, we'll welcome a huge fan of this book, I end with. Thank you for how many years did it take you to compile this? we'll take you glad for having me. I really appreciate it. I am I what The show many years ago and Robert lately, one of my colleagues and more to State University, was on it. I get a buck comparing hit. her style, misleading. I appreciated the way you brought in act. Historians into your conversation. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. For having me on,

Unlike many academic monographs, it took me good, eight to ten years from conception. To go into archives and doing the due diligence reading other people's work and then finally starting writing presenting it eventually deciding. I had a critical mass of information to make my arguments and it doesn't mean that there is aren't, is it could be a reviewer somewhere is like well, you know you could have looked at that or this. But if you point out it's pretty, It's already I mean at some point. You ve got to say enough: you're ready, and I get it out there, there's a couple of things and and- and I want you to kind of lead this a bit, but I I want to ask a couple of questions up front that I think show the depth of your research, one. You went and this fascinated me. You went to the detail of looking at books that Hitler had collected and had read and you look for things he underlined and their work,

the things that that you talked about. I can only find one of them now, as I was looking this morning, but one that he underlined was horror, always lurks at the bottom of the magical world and everything wholly is always. Mixed with horror. This comes from a bucket magic and nineteen twenty three he underlined this and there was also another quote about something about truly great man passed it of the seeds of a demon inside of him there. He did underline the other quotes from a page that he had underlined, but now he had underline that particular quote. And I want to be very clear about this, because this is an important methodological point I felt a historian, a journalist who write history, found the block in the Library of Congress where we have Hitler I bury it seems too underlined in annotated in the way that Hitler at annotated other books we're not

A hundred percent certain he read and agitated it, but he's the most likely suspect. So I use this book to represent. You know a kind of the cultural milieu in which he may have been thinking. It seems that he read it and then I, I tie and other sources that talk about Hitler, into I'll be interested in Paris psychology magic? Even if he just think Lithuania, emulate people and not an actual force in the universe, He clearly was involved that kind of milieu? That's the point I'm making, and it does appear that he underlined sixty six path passages in that book, but someone who is now: I'm not a specialist in handwriting, I dont know for certain that he did. I just want to put that out there. So Eric Everything that I, when I thought, would be important to start with to show the depth of your research was

the yummy, you go back into the eighteen, hundreds and you're really trying to lay out the mindset of of Germans at that time. and I was not aware in you- talk a lot about the films that were made, the silent films, The teams and the twenties- and I went back I remember which, when I watch but I watch one of these silent films You pointed out in your book and it is horrifying and it is it it. The v? The story action of the Jew into a monster or later not for up to the vampire Wes is tariff. That that went on so long without the Nazis. I saw a number of film scholars and literary scholars have argued that Weimar because of all the trauma went through the weighted one Weimar processed. It was by through horror through Russian through very

avant garde, artistic, media that were You know channeling a kind of return of the repressed right and I try to show the ways in which certain edges, monstrous images of the other right, Jews, Slavs, communists, war, port, braids and not nodded empirical way. Here's what's gonna happen the economy if finance capital does that or the communists do this, but in metaphysical or supernatural way right in that, I'm trying to show that culture precedes the not feed. It doesn't mean everyone who watched hormone this was a nazi, but their way of processing, trauma and crisis, I argue, was influenced by a kind of supernatural thinking how much how much of this came from the the churches that I know- The churches in the Western in England, etc, etc. Many of them were really damaged because of world war. One

and the people were kind of shock from that and they Started to see you wait a minute, the churches is really got a political organ here. How much of this return to magic in Germany came from the churches. Scallops laying out or or not being what churches should be, its an excellent question and you're not gonna, want me to get into too much detail here, but what I Say, as I point out chapter one that MAX favor, the famous sociologist was alive at the time, said Clia the traditional churches in the wake of hyper industrialization, even before world, where one and science are no longer providing the kind of answers for a lot of people, a lot of younger people living certainly in cities that they used to provide and yet that, with its different can't men of the world right people still need.

something higher than themselves. They need faith in something as scientific going to do it and traditional religion doesn't do it. What's in between well knew age, religion occultism these so called border sciences that claimed explain everything like world ice theory, but really can't be put when empirically that's a vehicle for faith pop fiction science fiction, and we see that across the west. The eighty nine is an especially after world war, one with the decline. In traditional religion, we even see some of the catholic and protestant leaders trying to tap into that. More grass root supernatural way of thinking but sit, but what I argued. I guess this is something that, as you point out in the intro, would be reassuring for you as a as suitable easily judeo Christian ethos and the West, it usually Did it to agree that they move away from that that their open to these new ways of thinking don't find a lot of devout Catholics and Protestants,

who who like who believe in world ice theory, for example or face, but it did their compatible, as are both faith based ways of thinking, but I do think you ve got it biggest step away from traditional religion towards what I call border science or occultism in order to find that as your kind of new religion right so you're right that that, while the churches may have made certain concessions to it or, like you say, become to political. I dont think that Christianity per SE was a bridge to this kind of I don't mean it exactly that way. I mean the absence of the right that thinking The lead people to go find something that was different in and worked I want to have you explain, border science and, and things like that when we come back and kind of get in and set the groundwork of what they actually,

he believed and what they used a mean. The idea that they were using astrologers and divining rods to define submarines is, is amazing and eventually, the the miracle weapons that they were going after and the reason why possibly the I did not get the bomb. Is is it really is an amazing revelation and we'll get to that here and just a second. The book is Hitler's monsters, a supernatural history of the third Reich Eric her letter as the artist. If you offer, if you're the fate of like those incredible crazy, you know- I give energies they ve made on the startling. This goes much much further, much excited. Real credibility here this is this. Is Indiana Jones and you know holy GRAIL and the last crusade it

it's, it's us you. The d, market of the covenant end and Captain America, but it's the real stuff. It's amazing Eric Kirtland. Iran is the author of a book. Hitler's monsters. This is a serious scholarly book about the soup natural history of the third Reich end and what they believed. What they used. The Eric help me out let's get a couple of definitions. What define the occult. What does that mean the devil stuff so why started out thinking? Oh you, I'm gonna, look at occultism whatever that means, and then I realized that culture is pretty specific meaning for four scholar. things related to deem analogy. witchcraft,

certain what I later called border scientists, but really that are linked to things like astrology endow seen in doctrines like area a fee or anthropic. the fees. These are also things that usually come under the brow umbrella of occultism. Something between religion and science and and will help. You? You uncover a secret world or a hidden world right. That's where the term comes from pretend pretend I read the book, but still could not. My arms around the ASA fees can you go right? Can you define those One question in any and end again: these off the fees are larger doctrines which, supposedly explain the world, I'm is a traditional religion in science cat because they integrate both so the office. Which model of art ski a russian thinker and amid too late nineteenth century came up with this idea that, if,

study, the religions in the east and the kind of practices east and United with Darwinism. and an evolution you can come. with our eyes in credit, doctrinaire. Wanes all of world history, so she came up. This idea of rude races, the most superior of which lived in Atlantis millennia earlier may be made with extraterrestrials. Then these other races, which had various qualities that early theosophy we're not as explicitly racist as the later Anthropophagi or area this obvious with areas in the title, but they all believe this idea of root races that that modern biology and Darwinism makes sense, but it's gotta be Levin with Eastern philosophy and religion.

You can understand the stages of world history through that and if you reverse engineer everything you can get back in touch both spiritually and racially with the great route races of the earlier period and so much of what they were doing was having sands in following certain doctrines to try to get back in touch with humanity when it was at its highest point see why that was attractiveness of central European India in the phone. This movement, the more ratio, is political. Movements and anti semitic movement because it way, justified their view of the world, so Eric I just want to go back. I was there. I was interested to read how much they were in the eastern religion, and I can remember, was it: was it Himmler. They carried around the sayings of Buddha in his pocket, the atom bomb, about Gaeta automatically. they simply be. I Himmler Hass Rudolf, ass, the deputy sure, vault or die re. These really like this would now

be something that people would expect no, but it makes perfect sense when you think about what is their larger view there? Why do they use the swastika, which is an indoor area and fertility simple right right? because in their mind, coming out of this nineteenth century supernatural, imaginary, the first chapter, they recognise that that the great Ray there isn't civilizations and, of course we don't have scientific evidence for the citizens, their view of the world. All came, from these indo area in races which may have developed in it. answer what order the Hyperborean some ancient area in origin, Keep pure atlantean civilization, but at some point because of a flood or giant blocks of ice my Great EAST, thereby populating India EAST Asia, Japan and the reason all these superior civilizations occurred. Because of the leadership of the Indo Aryan, for whom the symbol of the swastika is

you know and a religion of Tibet. Why too bad The high point where we are in a flood, a lot of the high priest of in religion could have fled and then they're trying to reinscribed those ideas back into their. Review of Nordic race and religion, the twenties and thirty's so that kind, Their view of the world has not that odd. They just skip over the flaws and Jews right, because those those their sub human race is around Erica our re about Asia makes sense to them. We're we're talking to Erika lender is the author of Hitler's monsters. It is a scholarly book on the the supernatural leanings, of the third Reich, and what- was in the society that made them embrace Nazi fascism and what did the Nazis use to strengthen that embrace? More to say,

This is the best of the Glen Back Programme is a book that is amassed reed. I warn you, it's gonna, take you a while just because it so fascinating. You will jump out of the page and go away my belt look that up. It's called Hitler's monsters, Eric Kurt Lander, a supernatural here, three of the third Reich. This is a scholarly book. This is not a minute. This is: is this not pulp fiction? It is a deep dive and well done commented on what the Nazis believed and what they did and Erika I want. I want to clarify one thing with you that I didn't. I didn't walk away, knowing for sure and maybe you don't know the answer much of this did they believe or make a pact with an much was just being used that that became a central question.

Me ass. I was going through different sort. The one thing I can say Rick, Himmler, Rudolf, half believe truly believed in a lot of these different doctrines, border sciences like parasite, allergy down, seen, muster I they truly believe that if you did it in a scientific way, you could glean answers that mainstream. Science and religion would not give you so he was looking into the whole. Himmler was looking into the holy grail. He was at the end he was he was. I guess you could credit this too Tesla, but I'm not sure if he credited more to Tesla order. Thor's hammer We need to act by which, which was it? Was it Tesla or was it the? He believed the thought hammer the electricity in the air. We I mean Pater long Irish. What are the greatest historians of the Third Reich and the Holocaust and other sources both corroborate him asking his

acolytes to look into whether the end, oh geez that we associate with Thor's hammer can be some a harness that maybe they're not traditional scientific energies, but something more a cold or hidden, and that's why of the gods had certain powers here but he was a reincarnation of Otto. The great Henry the Fowler. I'm sorry, one of the great evil. German princes me Many people have noted. Himmler is actual investment in these ideas as well as half what fine. Now and that's where the real debate comes. Many other Nazis, auto Moellendorff, who led the angel S group and to kill thousands of Jews, clean as a kind of one of these technocrats, highly educated, turns out. He was pushing, bio, dynamic, agriculture and anthropomorphic, which isn't it called doctrine, approaches to the world as a kind of Nedda substitute religion, but as something that you could you

Eight religion in science in the third Reich he's not normally associate; with those ideas. Hitler had a doubt Turn the right chancellery to look for cancer causing deathrays, and gave an honorary degree to one or two progenitors of world ice theory, something some is the sum in the third Reich said that they found Mussolini through divining rods or or or dousing over a map, and document that really well, it did did Hitler believe that stuff. So I would say, Hitler is here, perfectly representative of the of the Nazi movement and may be asked oh german society, he's right in the middle. He clear we believed in some of these doctrines, because he grew up with them and he did Fine, traditional Catholicism compelling, and he didn't image a modern science, because he considered it a jewish science and with two empirical he was. He wasn't is invested in some other Nazis were like Himmler hats

The other hand there were a few nazis like Heinrich, he's one of the only leaders I can find, who almost never shows authentic investment in any of these ideas and wants to combat them as another form of sectarianism, so you didn't care. What religion, a called or philosophical doctrine you have weather, the liberal, communist or even a conservative. if you're, not a Nazi, that's potentially a problem. The hydro goes after a culture. But many others leaders to claim they don't like the occult like Rosenberg or Himmler, actually, just like people who practise said in a way that challenges their belief, the minute by the way This is the problem with with a lot of religion right people argue that have the true face the true matter. It or or path to the Lord right. So what you see in the third much like occultism, more generally is claims that they are doing it scientifically. They understand at these. Other people are charlatans and many others,

when they saw that superficially who are particularly interested in research if they owe their hostile to occultism. May I point out there not hostile to it a pistol logically their hostile to anyone who practice it in a way that isn't compared but their racial ideas, their politics, their propaganda did they need It actually worked too the West's advantage to some degree. The S S Ober group, in full counselor, who Was It was really only known for making the We materials in Auschwitz, more effective was the replacement for VON Braun in the rocket science department. if I'm not mistaken, wasn't it because of a horoscopes a strategy,

we can confirm its because of a strategy. Will we can confirm, as at him, or preferred to have ass ass men, who shared some of his approaches to science in politics and re theory around him more than that tried and true professionals working on Brown and that's why spare as you see in my chapter, that the primary sources I have from the archives are spare reminding all the other nazi leaders. We are going to come up with miracle. I've been certain decide the war. This is propaganda, and then you have girl of an Himmler and Commerce. They don't know we can do this with with enough will, with enough faith, if we harness the right energies and and clearly that silver into the realm of border science? Very often, and it did empirical. It's not something that actually feasible towards the end. It seem to really work to the West's advantage again, their race theory and their belief in these, but you call border sciences,

that was really interested in what Said that one of the reasons why we think that they weren't farther along with the new is because they saw that is a jewish science, and so it was a little underplayed and the border sciences. The miracle weapons were were looked at. at with possible equal shot of it it working to have that right Exactly you have two parallel things going on they lose a lot of the best scientists who may have been calling for labour, all our jewish right. Many who stay are still top scientists. Heisenberg mocks plank right, Fond Brown, but they working in a they're doing there they're carrying out too national science mainstream science, and then you ve got I do not feel led by Himmler. We got the Sole Institute, the on an error by the institute for ancestral researchers, whose thrust

they want to work with his scientists who are operating based. and folk Lore and India, wherein race theory and wanted experiment with hidden electrical energies and I'm at the one. I am certain of. Is that the income, that ability of those two cultures, certain undermine some of their strategic thinking. We know that ET learn Himmler, because they read fine section like to the idea of rocket sin and veto ships and jets didn't think in terms of these more abstruse ideas like nuclear physics, which not only is something you can concretely hold or build, but is something they associate with abstract thinking of Jews and and liberals and communist settled odd that God, but But in a way now I didn't, I can't quantify a lot of the things I bring up in the book at scholarly as it is our things at someone else who to specialist these areas, armaments, military history- should really pursue and see to what degree. This really

it undermine their war effort I suggested did spear suggests it does but you know that that's a whole other line of research yeah. I could spend whereas with you had loved to have you I'd love to have you back as we haven't gotten into some of the miracle weapons in the bell, which you know the I saucer and anti gravity stuff that they supposedly were working on, but were really not sure if they were, love to continue our conversation on that. I do want to switch gears because you wrote another book which I have not read. It is your first book about. If I have it the price of exclusion, ethnicity, now no identity and the decline of german liberalism. Based on the title but feeling we would have a lot to learn from that in today's world. We would end the second book living with Hitler. Liberals in the third Reich

I think you'd you depreciate. Most of all, we we have slightly different political, is what I think you'll find the arguments in that book about the way that progressive kind of sold out to fascism, not because they were fascist, but because they tat certain continuities than that made it combination possible. I thank you. Try that interesting. Erica. Do I dont want to turn you political, but if you had any historic milestones that would be important to theirs. See pack announced that they are having the national front speak from France, which is national Socialist Party, and- and I think, they're doing it- because they ll say there's lots of things that we do have in common and we don't have to take that an end this, a big movement that is happening all around and If any lessons from history.

This is in, if anything, unites, unite the three books, I've written, which have been written in a time when I would argue our liberal, so called liberal parties have moved to the right Economic issues and then in other ways its values, issues, value five fights of our values, and our right has done the same thing. You see happening is an unwillingness for very we would might. We could maybe both agree that it's the role of Wall Street and government elite who don't wanta fight it out? for the actual empirical realities of how do you get the best health care are the best tax policy they fight it out over idea. oh gee and values, and Was values have moved more and more towards a possible? I would, I would argue, the populist right So how do you win elections in America in France, the Netherlands? Now you claim you're gonna protein, people in ways that can never quite be explained from global forces? Other happened,

cities, religions, terrorism, economic forces that both parties used to ACE Right trade on the door so dangerous and this, of course moves both parties, but obviously right wing more than are what I now call our centre towards what we used to call what we now call the all right, but we used to call fascism and that's very dangerous that especially in America. You could always trust conservatives to defend the constitution to be at least classical liberals right. And, as you pointed out, you can always trust that any more and if our soul, The liberals have to be the constitutional conservatives I thought it was addressed in the well and sincere down the constitutional change it and now they're, the ones defended the FBI and the constitution. We have a constitutional crisis, we have a political cultural crisis, I think both tradition conservative, and so called liberals or progressive, could agree on this and allow

of history from the twenties and authorities are scary once awaited the way this happens Erica I have talk to again, thank you so much and thank you for the really hard work. This the Abbe knife. I read a lot of books and I don't think I've read one that I think took more hard work for this. This was turning over every stone and thank you for your hardware o one last question: would you Definitely or would you definitively say the now, no socialist movement of Germany- was not a christian movement. when you got my country of eighty million people in twenty or thirty million who supported the Nazis, obviously lots of Christian saw something she hasn't, whether as extreme nationalism, Anti Semitism, sure on blue Thir, any kind of patriotism sure. But when it comes to the leaders and hears, I feel I'm on solid ground. Those leaders were frustrated by her show Christianity, which they linked to Judaism and

Universalism and too a world beyond the here and now, which they size not help. In creating a racial ancestor, worshipping blood and soil movement. That's why they Ike, Shinto and Hindu, As I'm in Buddhism, whether they in turn Those religions properly or not, they saw them as me: compatible with creating a religion of the here and now and so in that I wouldn't, I would say they work the leaders at least we're not Christians by any conventional sent the work Nike very much Eric alone. If you like zones in those monsters, is look supernatural history to the third Reich air curling is the artist Stringham back on again, there's so much to go through this evening. We have either. I want to talk to about all the miracle stuff, the Bell Did you you know what the bell is. It is just look it up. Lucius, look up nazi bell. Never heard of it. Never heard of it and its fascinating

whether it happened or not. I don't know oh, what do you think's do? I mean is fascinating rise. You are and as several people around here are just real nerds, comes to learning about that era, because it's just fascinating that any that happened I mean ABC, first and foremost, horrifying purified, but then, beyond that you just the fact that these people somehow got power did all this crazy crap with it is, is just fascinating to me. But we should. We should bring him in and then invite people to come. A hideous. You know come in just listen. It may be spent a weekend with him. Yes, I've done some research off of this book. Cannot not research, research, but just look. up some of the Sarkozy googling all these behind. Oh my gosh and it's it's, fascinating. Will you at some of the movies from early nineteen twenties and Germany and all of us pardon

so much just starts to make sense. Tuner, like oh my gosh, they never saw, they never saw it coming. They never saw it coming the name of the book again, his Hitler's monsters available in bookstores, everyone, Glenn Back, mercury, climate change is in just bad for the environment. It is bad now for the womb. Yes, the New York Times ran a story highlighting women who claim their decision to have children is directly influenced by climate change. They had an damn pull a woman named Sarah she considered having another child, but that would mean moving into a bigger house. That's further firmer job she's, not sure she can enjoy it. She can justify the environmental impact. for a larger home in a longer commute Alison. She

in the time she's concerned about the apocalyptic future of extreme weather. She said I don't want to give birth to a kid in wonder. If he's gonna live in some sort of mad max to stop here Miriam shared her concern. My instinct now is to shield by children from the horrors of the future, by bringing them into the world Amanda actually decided to have more children because of climate change. Her reason somebody my husband and I will be gone if my daughter to face the end of the world as we know it I, I want her to have a brother there. Oh, my gosh, you wanna talk about fearmongering So many women are bringing climate change into their reproduction decisions that the organization conceivable future was founded to help women make invite mentally friendly reproductive decisions and the gate are doomed world. Not bring a child into the world because you're scared. They are going to increase your carbon footprint,

little. The live, like moody drifters in a desert like terrain, is the very definition of insanity. these women are deciding not to have children based on their there. Fictional perception of their child, quality of life. and we're the fear mongers, the Sk lie of an impending invite mental wasteland and an overpopulated planet was True in then eighteen seventies It wasn't true in the nineteen sixties what it really started to EC and everybody was freaking out in the mid seventies. It wasn't true it isn't true that we were going into an ice age and then we would all freeze to death and there would be no food by one thousand nine hundred and ninety that wasn't true in the seventies in the eighties, and it's not true today,.

This is nonsense. Stop it we have to be better. Stewards of our planet. Yes We should recycle, we should use less. We should make sure that the thing that we we do use. We can reuse. but to not have children. The birth rate, the United States, reached its lowest point in twenty sixteen and the decline continues all around the world. It is Almost criminal these women are hours have been scared, so deeply they are allowing a fifty year old, unsubstantiated fear. Do take whether or not they bring human life into the world. Let me give you a few things to be freedom of this women. If you are afraid of this, let me give you something to be scared of a lie.

We right now have scientists credible, so Stephen hawking, other scientists that you believe global warming is true because of it they say. Global warming is nothing compared to a tie they say a lie, Will wipe out the entire human race in the next thirty fifty years. Long before car is killing the planet long before why dont you listen to them, but you listen to these and here's an idea balance balance in your life there are some days when I read stuff like this. I hope I am one of the first that a robot replaces

it's a little bit about balance again today. Yesterday, I talked about balance. The balance between of worth Humility. balance we never can do. We can ever get if we're on top of the world. If we are doing great, I did it. I didn't man. Look at me. Look at me. Look at me our actions scream. Look at me. I did it. And if we're having bad go of it, I'm just stupid just I'm the worst. I can't believe it, I mean I never catch a break. I'm just always make the wrong decisions. Humility and self worth. Where do we get that yesterday?

sir, I don't owe if we still have the Martin Luther King Commercial, that Dodge ran, but there was, there was a commercial that is that the people are actually calling for the firing. of the person who came up with this commercial, this this commercial was brilliant. Was it did it did it sell a truck I don't know, did it Let it go too far. Bye bye pairing Martin Luther King and this mission to a truck. Yes, definitely definitely Both these commercial good. Yeah, I think it was- it was a. It was based on a sermon Martin Luther king did. fifty years ago, to the day- on Superbowl Sunday.

And here's what he had to say. generated by now Oh my gosh, they should be fired maybe perhaps this is exactly the message America needs, but he's a heart full of grace. What is that That is a heart. I believe that is balanced between self worth and humility to change the world, I'm not gonna change anybody's life, I'm just trying to do the right thing. I'm just trying to change my life

how to be a better person. I know I can do it because I know who I am and because I know who I am. I know who you are, and I know how we're connected, and so I'm going to serve you. I'm gonna help you because that helps me and helps all of us. That's what we're here for that's a heart. Love, grace. Yesterday I brought you this message and right before I went off the air I received This phone call go to Minnesota and Brian allow Brian. Oh, Mr Back, are you I'm very good our you? Thanks for holding a you bet, May I just wanted to say on the premises with I'm I'm at work don't listen to you very often, and I think it's a bit of sir deputy, that I happened to listen to you a while ago.

Firstly, I heard was in ok, seen something boy have an artful of grace and then and then you talked about being honest with yourself, and he went on and on the line for quite some time I served our country. I can understand the Ranger regiment and I've been honest, myself ever since I got out of hate myself despised myself, and I am I've been doing I'm your father What you said. You know it's hard for people to reach me at a certain level because I don't want people to because I like to keep people. For me, except for my wife and my daughter, another huge people person I dont like the boy think it because I dont, like myself, I've never really had definitely moment my life

certainly never expected one from I'm going back. But that's what happened it I had to call my truck over and it moved me to tears to realise how much I can't see him myself and how much only an issue I have you been. The kind of person that I need to be. guide my family, is all because of the fact I dont serve any more than I feel useless I feel we masqueraded n n n. I have no idea how I got to the point today. I have no idea why I met this point right now, because I certainly didn't expect it, and I certainly didn't expect at the time that it happened, but I am glad that it did

Brian. I just wanted to let you know that I have to tell you you're, not alone brother, and I have been in exactly your place then there and he gets better? It really does Eugene Now that you ve recognised it Now you can start taken baby steps, and a year from now you won't recognize how great your life is. So that wish for recalling. That was yesterday's programme at the very end of the programme, and I was struck by I hear myself. I despise myself because I used to feel that way to I d, of Brian is drinker, but the wave that's the way I dealt with it and I used to hate people, I used to say, What am I ate people? I don't

I hated me they hated me. I was a self hating egomaniac, that's who we ve become. We are, we are filled with certitude that we know exactly what's happening. We know exactly what the problem is. We do this in our we its strange. We do this in in politics we knowable. Our side is right. There side is wrong. We know it. And there is no room for grey. But I am sorry to say, principles are principles. They are black and white. But how we're getting to those principles, our understanding, those principles, there's a lot of grey

Their side is not always wrong and we are not always right. In fact, we seem to switch places an awful lot. Brian says he feels useless emasculated. I fear, there's gonna be more of that before there is less, but the Good NEWS is it, We recognise it now you can take the steps to change. That course. and it's really hard, but it so well worth it. My father. Tell me the most important thing anyway ever taught me in my life, the most powerful were birds in any language is. I am. You change what fall those two words and you will change your life.

I can guarantee you He spends a lot of time. As I did. I am useless. I am worthless I am so weak- I am so pathetic. Well, if you had somebody around you saying that all day long for months and months and months, perhaps years it would Fact you and we would call it mental abuse. We see those things to ourselves much more than anybody else could possibly say that we inflicting mental abuse on ourselves, and we believe it after a while you believe it Do yourself a favor. Get out a notebook and a pencil and put positive and negative one side, positive ones, I'd negative, don't judge, Anything don't ponder it just when you have a thought,

tired, I'm so worthless? Oh gosh, I'm so whatever it is, I am sure, this is a positive or negative. Then this market down. When I did this years ago, I dont think I any positive zone. the worst times of my life, I have fewer positives. The negatives your job is to stop using? In my opinion, the name God. Yes, I am. who shall I say, sent me said Moses. I am that I am don't take the Lord's name in vain. What he means by that is. My creative power is in my name, and I M will create whatever it is. Don't take it in vain. Don't take that lightly. Strong. I am stronger. Today that I was yesterday, I am today than I was yesterday. I am

I m discovering my worth every site, You can't just convince yourself that you are worthy. I'm just discovering my worth every day, I am finding new things to be. excited about every day. Believe me, You change your thinking and you will change your life. And by the way, for anybody who thought that the guy should be fired for that Dodge RAM commercial. Maybe Dodge could say that, because I dont think Brian is gonna, be out buying a dodge because of the commercial, but because that commercial. And because we weren't bitching about it on the air, but actually talking about it. it changed one man's life, good job, Dodge I was, I have a love story. I wanted to say about. Our love story is very necessary with our anchoring was long time of over twenty five years to twenty five years to

two crayfish to parliament to crayfish. Yes, ok, they met and they went fast, things will pretty fast. It is not one of those that they meet, they like it was. It was widely diverse. I love and bodies in that it was just sacks. They went. They went out it s right, ok, that there was an issue. However, are one of them had a mutation in a sex self boy, sex, so yes the weather was the egg spread, the spurned the scientists. Don't know you don't know as they analyzes love story boy now, normal sex scale cells contain a single copy of each chromosome bought. The mutiny crave herself had to some the two sexes fused and produced a female crayfish embryo, with three copies of each So, instead of the normal to somehow do the crayfish didn't suffer any deformities because which was not what would happen I want to know, is or extra meat

Yes, is actually these crayfish are very large, real and produce a lot of eggs and was interesting about these new crayfish YAP Bananas as love story that pay it off twenty five years ago, just twenty five years ago is they can now cloned themselves and they, I guess they came popular liked by people The aquarium hobbyists in the ninety Ninetys as they because are bigger than the normal ones and they produce lots of eggs. He get lots of extras and they producing so many extra people started freaking out bring them to local lakes and dumping of the lakes the extras Of course, obviously freed around they're very resilient Frida Rome, their able to produce more more, more, more and now all over the world, no one how to get rid of them or what to do about that. Its honestly, like the said, the rat, population in in in Australia. You know that legacy of Israel

its isn't it Bobby. I know one phrase about rabbits that works in a designer baby. There was there was there when I can remember how this works, but some brought over, I think, was rabbits to Australia, and there was the natural predators were not strong enough and that rapid population went crazy and overrun. I think strangely it with rabbits, and it was a real problem over Australia, because people here this reality little bunny and bring it over the open on over the cute little crawfish. But you know you're taking it out of its natural habitat and you're habitat in starting to dump it in it, doesn't have necessarily any predators, and in this case its genetically cloning itself is at one with there's like a whole island where it's just a covered, and I chose it all is rising book, but I really my kids. I don't know it's interesting, though, that they say that the about one out of every ten thousand species, this it occurs with their some mutation and then the woman,

the lovely woman. She the desert option. Person scan croppers person is- Very much says me too, and doesn't want me with many more right and then she starts having her own clone babies they're taking over Europe there millions and they can't stop it because they cloning themselves with a hundreds was it man created or was its natural natural that hampers evolution, its evolution, people, listening to the rest of the Glen begging, regrettable so much to Lee? I would think chagrin of my friends and chagrin of his friends. We are friends. Eric Lou is the founder and CEO of Citizen University, also, the executive director of the Aspen Institute, citizenship and american Identity Programme, he's he's from Seattle. I dont think I need to say anything else he's from Seattle,

significant, so we don't necessarily agree on everything, but we we have become friends because we both are trying to fight in saying ways to have come. relations with each other and other people or were doomed, were doomed. Welcome, how're, ya, Glenn, it's great to be back so Would you agree with me that boy, sides to one. Degree or another have become unhinged on the extreme edges yeah. I think our Politics today, and especially if you spend more than ten minutes on social media, is about voices on the unhinged extremes, and it's about this pattern that plays out over and over where each extra it has to give it up in order to defeat the rage and the anger about the other side's extremely. I mean. I think that that is our politics. as its mediated. You know

especially through social media, but I think there is a broad swathes of you. No sir. in people. I call on you know, interested bystanders. People who are super active in politics, super active in commenting on politics, Hu Jia want to understand each other and who just want to fix stuff and some of them are progressive as I am. Some of them are as libertarian as you are, and many of them are all points between, but they're not trust in the game playing in the posturing. That's much of national politics is about to you. I mean I we're we're making everything about politics now. Absolutely everything is about politics and and we're not gonna survive that that's it that's nuts! I this story today came out, on sports, illustrated they just as they swim sooner issue that doesn't many swimsuits, the all of the women are completely naked and their beautiful women. Why,

is lying down a naked face up with word truth painted on her ribcage another one is naked with feminist blazing on her arm? The other is the daughter of Chris he Brinkley that is staring at the camera, laying on her side with word progress written across her back and they ve put this. This is understand this This is sports, illustrated a magazine for men trying to say see we shouldn't objectify women. I dont understand that there is a lot that is great fundamentally about the meat to movement and the fact that our society is waking up to agree shifting norms on what's. Ok when it comes to actually reading women with respect yet, but I do not lie sports, illustrated as my moral guide, our eyes objectification women. How do we? How do we find a way to enter me, what your feelings are on the people that you know on the other,

dangers. Even Margaret Atwood brought this up the dangers of these. These kangaroo courts or just not even not even a kangaroo court, just your guilty and you're done. If anybody accuses you the danger is there. But I think actually as a society were navigating right now. I'm in this is this is somewhat uncharted. It's not like. The society has tried before to have deep. But he between men and women on what who gets to harass, whom we ve never done before we're having a society wide reckoning, are they're gonna be cases where people abuse that the power that comes with that sure but are in, petitions and are the leaders and our institutions fundamentally trying to reckon with that in good faith. I actually think we are right, and even this kind of absurd Sports illustrated cover, is a sign that, in a one thing you can say about sports illustrated is they're trying to do

into the site guys they are aware of them. However, as I have, you got to be on the right side of his rights rights and that the right- but if I did vote or of naked women and put you know, hashtag me, do I dont think I'd get them lead, don't from either side. In my case. For me, the question is one of you know: in the longer term, standing do us standing to make a case right. During superbowl- we all watch the ads and stuff. I didn't think Dodge RAM trucks have more standing to use an email, K speech about the dangers of commercialism to sell trucks. To me, that was, lots of Americans, that was you know what neither Jan MESSENGER not aligned. Here, maybe you mean the M o k message here yet Ok, so the emerald came message. May I present an opposite point of view that say that's a sermon that most Americans have never heard was really good. I agree with

that you know the images of the truck coming in half way behind your like. Ok, that is really you don't need that just a simple dodge, yet at the end would have been perfectly have been great. So who have you found arrogant, although I have been looking for a while? Looking for people like you that we dont essentially agree, but we can have really good conversations and we can move things forward together, who, if you found on the on the left or in them, media that is really willing to do that. You know I'm not sure if she's been a guest on your show, but to my friend near at hand, and no on the centre for american progress? Although big big aggressive, think tank that I know you cross swords with but nearer is both able and willing to have conversations with anybody. And to have them ways. It aren't just about Lee made for tv food fight

that are really trying to say who what what? What's your deal right? What what are you getting at here? I really feel one of the biggest problems is nobody's listening at all. Nobody feels heard right now. The somehow or another the left, which still controls most of the media, doesn't feel heard and the right eight now they control the house in the Senate and they don't feel heard and its because nobody is, nobody is actually a guess, emotive and what the average person is feeling right now. You know we're all scared. It's amazing. I thought I saw Youtube video of a of a liberal talking about how afraid she was that

down trumpets, gonna, build concentration camps and it was in four room of the public, had a thousand people in it and they all were like yeah yeah, and I remember I d bunked the lie about Obama, making concentration camps, because I was a boy deal with conspiracy, theory, conspiracy. I I was called a conspiracy theories for debunking. conspiracy theories theory, and Now the other side is feeling the same kind of fear that's so many Americans did when they didn't trust the president, and I think this is a moment where we can wake up and say see. This is why the president should never have this much power The president should not be able to affect our lives to the point where we are afraid of him. You actually agree with that. I think there is one lesson that people on the left are learning today, and that is the day years of this imperial presidency right, which is not

from phenomenon or even eurobond, phenomena. They don't know about half a century at last, Ray under Licence World war, to work on rotation of power in the executive right, but I think you're gonna go back to something you're saying about listening and being heard right. We live in this time right now where there is, and we ve talked about this there's so much pain, there's so much pain. The segment you're doing right before the breaking them in she were just speaking to a human and individual about the pain they are feeling in their journey. Tying it to the pain that you have felt at various points on your journey right. That kind of conversation which is both about listening, but it's about, I'm not just listening to the words are saying to the points you're making. I'm trotted list underneath to today ocean currents there that's a set, a habits that nobody's Modeling for us in national politics and we as citizens. Frankly, it's gotten easier for basically to shed those habits because

Nothing in our daily lives rewards that right, social, He doesn't reward that vision, doesn't really doesn't reward, and so we ve got actually build experience, is where we see each other face to face again enough. If we are having this conversation by phone this week, different, but I'm looking you in the eye right now glad and I'm looking at you as you have spoken about these questions and it there's a human connection, that I can't now just call you and not job and call you this and call yoga like we connected on some left right does we're going to agree on the issues, but it means that I'm not when a demonize, and I think the deepest ill in politics is how we forgot had a re humanize each other as sorry I was just are just wrote, a member of the press this morning, a private conversation that dealt That I said we are. We are calling each other sub humans exactly the way

the early. You know, nineteen twenties nazis were starting to train people that you're subhuman you don't agree with me- you're sub human and we're we're training each other that way, but it doesn't social media is not the only one that does a reward it media doesn't rewarded either I mean if, if you're not gonna, go all somebody and not job or a Nazi, you don't win and they don't put you on and use do we. You yesterday said that you had seen somebody say no well on the surface. This means X, x and the others I know, but that's the ATLAS area was. There was an interview, a bout of some controversial comment that have gone on media and they had brought someone onto kind of answer forth in the typical can have cable news back and forth, and that was essentially the way they went when the when the person was poor, pushing back against that they set gap, but you gotta admit on the surface. It is. It is an insult as equal

isn't the point here as human beings that we go beyond the surface, that they think a little bit deeper about these things, because we can all get frustrated at the surface of it. We can all find the worst possible intent of a comment and turn it into something. That's going to enrage our side, that shouldn't be our goal so so Eric? How do we do that? Well, it starts with something I actually want to give you guys credit for which is you gotta put something at risk right? you started a couple years ago, saying I own might be So how are politics and our political culture have gotten toxic and I decided I want to be part of the solution on a start reaching out and having conversations across different divides right. You put a bunch of stuff that right working at an early date. You put out a name right: it's not just about the big side of things in the listeners in the sponsors or whatever I'm talking about just reputational power and so forth. Right, you put stuff at risk, often ask myself, and I ask my friends who are left of centre. What are we

to put at risk in order to change this politics and where to go a little deeper. beyond the surface and beyond. Just this, sir, throwing off the flames at each other. rights are not number one, it's being willing and I want to name the fact that you all have started something in And set in motion a different cycle of of responsibility, taking rather than responsibility shirking right. Thank you that that there is only one way to break the cycle of deal innovation and responsibility shirking and that is to break it. That is to be say, you know what I didn't start it. I didn't another one to blame, but darn it I'm actually just going to say I'm stopping right now and I'm trying to change direction here, go a little deeper re human eyes and yeah. I may pay some price for that, but this is that this is question purpose they wanna of famous poets. Had we didn't start the file?

It was Billy on solid storm, a poet. Yes, someone here frenzy to you when you say what are we willing to lose? What are we willing to chip? Are we willing to put up? Let me tell you about something: we ve been doing it. Citizen university, wheat for last year, plus now you're in a quarter, and we ve been doing. Regular gatherings that we call civic saturday- and these are Basically, a civic analog to church. It's not sure it's not Gallagher MOSS. But it's about Americans religion right, the stuff that you and I Rick nerds are steeped in right. I mean, standing a language in the texts in the what you might think of a civic scripture, whether that's from declaration of the preamble or king speeches or Susan, be Anthony or whatever it might be and understand, being that. We have all inherited this body of values and text and idea. And we do these gatherings with the arc of a faint gathering we sing together. He turned the stranger next year. You talk about a com.

question there are readings of these texts there's a sermon that I've been giving and then afterward there's more song and there's an hour afterwards, or people kind of form up in circles and talk about what are we gonna do together right and I go at length to tell you about this because number one. It's been amazing how people have responded to this there. There is this need across the left and the right. Whether you are traditionally religious or not. There is a new eat in our political life, for a space where we can come to get and re humanize right number one. What number two when in that space, I've said to folks in these sermons. What I said here, which is we ve, got to be willing to take risks. We ve got to be willing to ask ourselves what are we willing to put on the line and people people? Are a people sit there four minute because they haven't been asked, Slash challenge to do that in a long time right. All of our political leadership is about. Let me indulged, Let me indulgent your worsens thanks you. Let me in

would you not? What can you and maybe even give up a little bit in order to start solving the problem right. And that leads to different kinds of conversations and, frankly, not all of them are about Trump or national politics. Allow these conversations then come too. If in our city, which is changing dramatically right now, that's what it should come down. The first place, he has written a book, your more powerful than you think. His name is Eric Lou and will have more tonight at five o clock make sure you join us on the blaze, Dotcom, Slash TV, Hey just so you know things could be worse. Imagine if I got on the air today and said by the way the government has decided to change the alphabet again today. This is what happened in Kazakhstan. They had a new alphabet introduced last year, had thirty two letters, but it had tons of us by posture fees in it and they please supposed to denote distinct, sounds what happened was people got really pissed off largely because it's really,

hard to get to the apostrophe on your on your handheld device. typing a message on your phone. Your constantly bring up shift and go into the poverty. They ve now reworked with less apostrophising new alphabet and that will be going in and out people about signed, ailed one but big government is the solution and roses Glenn back mercury