I think music, has a very important role to play in the world right now because of the very unique power that it has just said thrilling, and I love that I think there's really nothing like the feeling of live music. So there is this man of making music- and I really want to stay in touch with that sue. I can literally still remember the first time I heard joan osbornes. I hardly solve one of us. with twenty nine couple years into my career as a federal law enforcement attorney with the acc and not loving my time at all in the industry asking big questions when I turn on the radio and the here jones soulful blues voice asking what, if I was one of us. It start me my tracks, that was nineteen. Ninety five,

song still has the same effect on me. It also changed the trajectory of osborne, career and life in ways that affect her to this day. Nearly three decades later so John, she was a fixture in the downtown new york music scene in the nineties, but one that deep blue, album relish came out, and one of us which was on that album took off it exploded her into music superstar them. What to say grammy nominations and fuelled what has become a decades long career populated by world tours many more albums deepening. Commitment to weaving together, music and advocacy and activism and collaboration with everyone from the funk brothers to stevie, wonder grateful dead, pavarotti, bob Dylan and so many others in which even more amazing joe, never expected any of this to happen. She didn't exe,

like to have a career music. In fact, it all started as a dare from a friend at an open might night in an east village club, while she was in new york studying to be a filmmaker it, and why you a story that shit goes into in our conversation and when pandemic, made it impossible to tour something she has literally been doing for decades. She decides I have to take these last few year to do a little organizing around the houses, so many must have done and in the process she discovered. She stumbled upon literally this treasure trove of old recordings and demos. She had completely forgotten that she had many from her years of live performances at radio stations and curated them into her latest release radio waves and to her great joy. She is back on the road so be sure to check out her live performance dates and catch her on tour. Once again, I am so excited to share this conversation where we go deep into so many of the big awakenings the moments alone,

this journey and music activism and advocacy of creativity and life. I'm Jonathan fields- and this is good life project-

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much of your world is so much of your work has been on the road. There are some musicians who love the studio. There are some musicians who are like yeah. They they duck they create now every five years and then you can we don't, you're from them, that's not year by year. Emma have from the earliest days has been taking it to the people. I've always curious about that impulse. Well, that's kind of how I started was playing, live in clubs and bars and stuff in new york city in the early ninetys and I did you know I just I loved performing and I love that feed that you get when you know it's like two o clock in the morning in everybody's, a sort of half exhausted and and half lubricated- and and you know you in the band have got into this sort of group mine, place and and the army. It is with you and you know, just its thrilling- and I love that I think there's really

Nothing like the feeling of live music, so that's kind of what got me to it. In the first place I was not really a studio person and into the whole engineering side of it, and I I and to enjoy that, and I learned to really- understand more about what that's about, but for me the live impulses. Always the first thing yeah I mean especially then, so So I was in the city eighties and early ninetys as well, and I feel that there is some kind of magical about the music seen there, especially like, what's now the lorry sigh but yet be alphabet city and talk and square, not that whole area there was a magic there that I think, was there was a season that it seems. anyone and everyone was just in that space Yeah he was, it was an amazing.

no time in an amazing place, and there was so much live music going on and there were so many little clubs and in others blues and roots music, and they reserve of oak for that. But then there is also the singer songwriter thing in you, had people like Jeff Buckley who playing in these little tiny rooms, like she, nay in the east village, and You know you had these sort of jam band groups like the spin doctors and blues traveller that replaying these will clubs and and it was a really really vibrant scene and everybody was really support. but each other too. You know that you would go. On a night and go. Sit in you. If you didn't have your own gig, you would go sit in with this band and then you'd run up lock and go sitting without other band and and it was a really nice sort of mutually supportive thing, and I don't think especially in the beginning, people were not really.

thinking about. Oh we're, gonna get signed and we're gonna become in a rock stars or anything. It was just like wow. Look at this thing that we're doing were playing these clubs in new york and and asking them and people are dancing and having a great time and then we're all gonna. Hang afterwards, and you know when you're young person- that's like that's just a Experience in over forget trying to get anywhere from that it was like we're here already were doing it. Now. I love that it's interesting also right because so went up from what I understand in new york in the first place, I'm using come to a lot of people the if they have musical impulse then, wherever they therefrom It either new york or or a couple of other cities nashville come to new york from a small soberly kentucky. but not for musical a year. Your initial step into this, like big beautiful city, is something very, yeah yeah. I was sir, when going to and why you film school actually end. Was really really interested in filmmaking and as I

took classes it and why you and got more into it. I started to really of documentary film making and that's kind of what thought my career path was going to be. I thought I was gonna become a documentary film maker, but you know denied I just kind of fell into this music scene. Accident I mean I had done it singing when I was the kid I sang in in choruses in school, when I was twelve thirteen years old and you know. My music teacher then was very complimentary in the. So I knew that I had a nice voice, but you know Didn't really you know when you in this little town in Kentucky. You don't think about becoming a musician and and making wreck it is like a really legitimate career path? Oh it's like that's a fantasy and you know who I think you are thinking you could do that, so it wasn't something that I ever took recently in that way, and- and I just kind of accidently- fell into the music seen there

I want to hear that stupid, but am also curious about your impulse for documentary film making, because you describe as well like most people, don't like music and say that as a fantastic way to make a solemn living ass, you can and you get away, they may not be entitled to well. I don't know that you know the monetary aspects of it was the first thing in my mind, I just love, didn't I thought it was cool and eu. I felt like the documentaries that I was seeing your meeting all these people and all these characters and hearing all these stories that you know they say truth is stranger than fiction. So you have these people You could never right into a script in these very unique outlandish characters, and and- situations that you could never come within a million years. If you are a fiction right or so For me it was just so exciting and so interesting and I still. I still love watching documentaries and I think So one really cool thing about this hold in a village.

streaming revolution is it's been really good for documentaries and as someone who loves them loves to watch them. It's great just like on my couch and get all these amazing documentary films, dumped into my lap but but as you say, it was not probably was a great career move back then, and- and maybe it's not now- either in mute I don't know I mean has been good for me. I don't know that it's it's a lot different than it used to be. Let's let's say that yeah I know the world has changed and dramatic way Asma. I mean, I think, with music and pretty much any form of media to no small extent me about this moment that everything changes in the context of hanging out you and why you you're, studying film In your mind, a case of this is maybe this is the nothing new coming out of here and you have background you know that you have a voice. You I guess from what I understand. I'm almost done a dare

yeah you wake up on stage and in the village. Well, I was living in the east twenties and this point I had was taking a semester off because I had run out of money. I was putting myself through college and I'd run out of money, and I needed to get a bunch of jobs and saves money to go back this guy, who is living in my building, invite did me to go out for a drink with him, and sounds like sure. This guy was really cute and we went out and very few place on the corner was this bar code the abilene cafe, which was a blues bar, doesn't exist anymore, but it was there for a little while and They had an open mind once a week- and we just happened to be there on that night and I think the band and and all the open myself had already happened. But the piano player still there is pretty late at night, and the piano player was still there and this kind of playing for himself and a handful of people there,

we're still there and this guy you know dared me to go up and sing a song. I have no idea why he did, because I don't think he even knew that I had ever sung a note, but he was like I the drinks, if you go up and sing song with this guy, so you know being the broke, to go back to college person that I was out like ok, so I went up in talks this spanish player and asked him if it be ok, if I sang and we real as you know, we ve tried to think of something that we both new and I was a big billy. what fan, and so I asked him if he could play lest the child billie holiday song. So he did and I sang it and you know wasn't like there was a big heavy. Producer in the audience it was like. I'm gonna make you a star who is just that this guy's at all that sounds nice. Why don't you come back? We have an open might night here once a week and so I started doing that, and there was just something for me.

that was so galvanizing about singing, first of all I would like well I'm in new york city and I'm in a club and I'm actually singing, and it's like woe just then was sort of mine blowing and then you know when you're doing film. it's much more of an intellectual thing, and it takes all this technology in all these large groups of people- and you know this thing you plan out for months and months, and and it's just a totally different. Ah says whereas singing in. Of course, you can prepare for but the actual thing that you're doing. it's much more immediate, it's much more physical. It comes from your body, you're, surrounded by all these other musicians, who her making this sound and though the vibrations of music is going through your body and going into the audience his body in its it's just a totally different experience and there something about it that just we blew me away and- and even though I was very very nervous- I would be no be likes

to my stomach right before going stepping on age and I would close my eyes really tightly and grab onto the mike standing. I was gonna terrified to do this, but there was think about it? The just kept me coming back again for more there. Is something so magical about being in a room with other human beings and that residents that happens in that that no made right. It's really rival dressing, yeah, nice, so great, especially the new when you, when you feel literally. It's almost like, I feel like their these moments, where, especially in small club right where there, vibration, and it's almost like every human being in the room starts to attune to that vibration together, absolutely you're, all just in it like you're. It's almost like you're transported out of that room and there's something else going on. I mean I'm sure that if you know of a person who's like a physics, sir guy would be able to say yes, these sound waves are actually physical waves that travel through the air in the your body does vibrate with them in some way. So I I think, there's

probably some sides to back it up, but for me I agree it's it's this a lot of magic going on here. so I'm curious now, you know start doing this. There's something happens at first time. You do it and you keep going back to it you're on a bit of a break from N y. U, but but still that point intending to go back and right, yeah, but somewhere along the way. Something happens, re like all right, so machine going back yeah. He feels like the thing that I want to leave into I'm curious about that process. Yeah. Well I mean it didn't happen right away, and I just to you know because I was so interested in going to this open mic night would do that every week and I started meeting other musicians who would come to the open, might knights and started talking with them in, and they told me that there was some other places in in a right in the neighborhood that also had opened might knights, and there was a sunday afternoon at a place called dan. Lynch is on the corner of second avenue fourteenth street, there was another open might night I think display.

Called the wonderland blues bar up on sex our third avenue just a handful of places. So I started going. these things, and you know signing my name up on the list of people who to get up and saying and- and you know I was I started to because they were mostly blues clubs. I started Turning to a lot of blues record's allotted at a james records- and you know it Helen wolf and muddy waters and otis readying, and people like that. Just to try to you, don't like it. We are seeing that one billie holiday song so many times, and so I wanted to get some other songs and- and just you know that process and meeting all these other musicians becoming friends with people who had their you. and that were gigging. You know that night, and so I would go see their gay eggs, and sometimes we call me up to sing a song, and you know slowly, but surely I you met a bunch of other players, and I started to put my own band together and

I had a band together. We are, we like a little rehearsal cosette and started. Taking it around to these clubs had been doing the open, might knights and trying to get a gig myself, and you know it's it's a little bit of a catch. Twenty two: if you ve, never had another gig in town right, they don't want to take a chance on you, so it took me a while. Eventually, I think somebody had a cancellation and they were they called me up and said. If you can do this knight will book you, so you know I was. so thrilled, and also terrified that, oh, my god, I'm going to have my own show in a club in new york city, and you know this is amazing. I better make sure that a whole lot of people come so that they'll me again, so I know every person I knew I was like calling them in and please come to under the show and and you know, we had enough of a crowd that first night that they the guy who was looking, though the club said okay well how about two or three nights next month, and

from there. I was able to go to some other clubs and say well we're playing two nights a month at this club. Can you book me at your club and damn you don't just bit by bit I started working and I was working so much that I realize that, support myself doing this and then once that started here I would like this just feels like. something I need to pursue- and here I was- I was loving it so much and the response that I was getting from the audiences and from the fellow musicians I felt like. Maybe I've got something to offer, you know that is just unique to me and Maybe this is worth doing film school. will always be there, documentary filmmaking always be there. Let me see what I can do with this If I don't try, I think I'll always wonder what would have happened. You know the

It's that regret that he don't want to have right now. I didn't want to say that things are always going to be available to you if you want to go back to- and I didn't want to be like eighty years old and being like wow remember that time and I could have been a singer and I just chickened out- and you know you don't want to think about- you want to think back on your life like that. So hey listener having never thought about starting a podcast. Whatever you love to talk, about. We know their listeners out there who would love to hear it start your podcast with cast enjoying the world's best protesters included work marin, honour ferris can, over sixty six thousand other creators you can get started completely free at a cast outcome.

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a c h av a dot com, slash, go Why, You start playing around pretty regularly in new york and other curiosity is around then also is like when you start to make the job between okay. So I know billy sigh and let me learn some of these other times out there, but Maybe I also had this thing inside of me that, like has my own stories of my own songs, are my own, my own music, to share with other people, but that's a very diff, an impulse, then answer like a pure seeing her like a songwriter they'd always exist in the same person and as I am wondering how that I'd really start to emerge with here, Are you again? I think I was really really nervous to do it, and I I thought to myself that I I wanted to try it and and I thought maybe you know was I had learned a lot,

film school and I had this sort of images. In my mind that could be translated into you, know: poetic lyrics and listening to a lot of these- records and a lot of these things. I thought wow that maybe there's a way that I can you know, I'm not ever gonna to be one of the great like you know, muddy waters or willie dixon ernie by like that. But maybe I can do something. That's cool. Just for my own, but I was also very very nervous about that, because you know you have to have a lot of confidence to walk into a rehearsal space with a bunch of musicians and said, here's my new song that I wrote if you ve never met han and if all they know you as somebody who things other people song. So I was really shy about it and with something that I did because I felt like I could do it but I was also scared to do but you know eventually I just try enough an end to the point where I was putting a lot of original songs into the shows that I was doing I will say. I don't know that I am you know I

I feel like I'm, not the greatest songwriter in the world and I've had a lot of you agree. experience riding with other people and- and I feel like that's an amazing thing. I've also written songs on my own, but I I dont consider myself, you know a songwriter like a riot Adams or somebody like that. You know it. That's a different level of it. I feel like theirs that I can do that our to me, and I want to do them, but I don't know how many great shakes as a songwriter. Its interest in here you see that yet theirs so fastened, bye, bye we're on perceptions of ourselves and what we create an and other people's perceptions of us. I would I have to have like another musician who you are working with like right around then also you've been working with for years. I reflect back to you like what lay their lives on that, but I'm curious also so. you're playing around your writing. Iran, stuff you're, really something like energy starting to bill behind you and in in ninety one you make it really interesting decision, including your own labour womanly hampson, which is,

Have the time you re, probably I'm guessing its about, a year or so after on it, a franco launches righteous babe, her own label to really surely take control over that the entire process for herself I'm curious. What was behind your decision to say I want my own label on in the world well again: you know that on this scene on this club seen it it wasn't like. We were all sitting around saying: oh we're, gonna get discovered and get record deals and all that it that that just didn't seem like it was a realist expectation. So I knew that You know. I was aware of a lot of the punk d I y movements and- and night. I knew that it was possible to put out records on your own. I didn't know how exactly went to the library and I went to the book store and I read search did and there are these books about here's how to make and sell your own record, and so I bought them and

And I was aware of ani de franco, but mostly it was the request of the the fans really. That was the big push for me to do it. You know people we would do these gigs and- and at this point you know I'd play in new york a lot and I had started going around two other cities, like you know, burlington vermont and up to boston and up to gesture new york and down to fill in, and you know all throughout the northeast. We had started to build a real following, and we were gigging a lot and people would come up to us. After the show and be like. I want to buy your album, whereas it like, I don't, have it alma freedom. I am sorry so I was like, while we could were really kind of missing a good way to get some gas money here. So let me figure this out. and that's really the long and short of it. I wasn't. I didn't have some grand idea, like? Oh I'm, gonna be an independent. Label owner anything I gotta just like well, nobody else is offering to do this. I guess I'd better. Do it myself there that's so funny

So it's sort of like it was a response to demand people kept asking you for albums. There wasn't somebody on the in the industry, saying oh we'll do that for you you're like right. I guess we're doing this yeah yeah! It's again. There was not this big Is that not in those years I wasn't this expectation of of? no getting signed in making a huge success, and all that it was I was in it. As I love doing it, and it just seemed so real to me, you know was realise that even we were playing of these little clubs. We had hundreds and thousands of fans, and it was. It was great you start doing that You have also, then, like, through your label, doing a deal with mercury. Bird first album copy here, into this. Ninety five- I guess it is one relish comes out into the world right, and this is where this iconic saw. One of us is on it, the sun,

is it's one of those classic you like lightning strike moments. It has at least from the outside. Looking like you been working hard for years, developing a craft in your skill and gigging nonstop in doing all the stuff that musicians do right. And so often musicians will do this for decades and that's the life and they're okay with that, because they get to show up and do this thing and be in a row with people doing nearly can collaborating with their band members and then had that once or like pig moment, you do relish comes out. One of us heads becomes is massive explosive head at times we focus on the story of healing how incredible, Was you like what is open. How do you change your life? We had better I've been on the show a little while back in and he was relating his experience with one friend and comes alive comes out guess the earlier life I'll, never he's on the cover of rolling stone, yelling the famous liking. let's give low shot and camera crow writes that feature piece about him.

Then the industry, as this is like everything and he's late. The next thing describes that moment as the like, the best of times and it was the worst of times in a lot of ways he felt like it destroyed him and his career, because It positioned him ass. You are pop star now and all he wanted to be known, as was a great musician, a great guitar player, I'm curious for you. when you have this one moment love to know sort of lake that landed with yearly. What was was there best of times, worst of times, experience of that or was it just kind of like all good mean nothing is all good. Is it I will say this. I'm very very grateful that that happened, and it did open so many doors. For me, you know I got to

sing with stevie, wonder indicating gladys night it into the rock and roll hall of fame and I've got to fly to ITALY and hang out with Luciano pavarotti and sing with him at this big fun raising thing that he would do every year. I I got to sing with bob Dylan and record a song for a tv show, and of course we word gig and the crowds just started getting bigger and bigger and bigger, and we you know he played in front of one hundred thousand people at the olympics in atlanta in nineteen. Ninety six- and you know those are the experiences that I would have had if One of us was not such a big hit, so I will always be grateful for that and I think in some ways, its partly responsible for the fact that I've been around. As long as I have because I think so many people came to about that record relish through that song being such a head and then they also saw what else was cool about it and Those fans have not not

all three million or whatever are still with me, but there is still a lot of them her still with me, so I am very grateful. Just on a personal level, it was not the most comfortable thing for me because either more sort of quiet reserved I person and there you know there was a lot of people would follow me down the street. I just wanted to kind of hang out, live in new york, city and and I'd be like in the corner, dally buying tampons and I'd turn around in there? Be three people following me through the store or I'd, be walking down the street, and somebody would like pull up on the curb insert honking at me and yelling and and you know that was not super comfortable for me and I wasn't like a movie stars, gotta hold failings of bodyguards or their dinner, whatever their not walking around on the street in new york. But I would just like trying to live my life and as I before and it wasn't super comfortable I think I also kind of sight,

myself out and had the the mother of all sophomore slumps. By to come up with a follow up album for relish and really kind of was unable to do that for a long long time, and in that way very hard, but you know again it, sir, it was good I will say this. I think, the years and years that I put in before that record became a hit, they just as satisfying in their way as having that kind of massive thing, I mean it. If you're making music for people and you're, you know they're with your band and and you're playing and you're having a good night, in some sense it doesn't matter if there's twenty people in the audience or twenty thousand people, you know it's it's the same feeling and its the beautiful wonderful thing to do so, I think, having all those years of having experience allowed me to feel confident to step out onto these larger stages and be able to do it and sort of no

you sort of know what it was about. What I was doing that was good and to have that sort of feeling of like yeah. I I I do belong here. Cause I've worked this for lahti years, and I know what this is about. So I am very grateful that it took all those years. For that to happen, I got you know you look at these people who are on. I dunno america's got talent or these idle shows or whatever and and they step from, total obscurity into this huge spotlight? And I oh my god. How can you even do that? Like that's, that's crazy, crazy thing. I was very glad to have all years of preparation before the big blowup single have yeah, and you know what else occurs to me as you're, describing that sir lake season, as at you arena, it sounds like very much to this day in it for the feeling not for the fame. So the fame com there bring certain opportunity with right that may endure to the state, to a certain extent but fundamentally underneath it like. Who was never your? Why your wife

is the feeling of of like playing music and being with a band and being with people who, having that that moment together, which I wonder if that was something that that day, drowned. You almost like, no matter how what else was spinning around you to a certain extent, because you are connected with the feeling less than the fame. for sure and Even if I had a day where I was like doing a whole dave, Your views and press and we are having some kind of stuff elitist or make a person in my face all day and then trying to be in front like trying to look cool for this or that thing or whatever, like all that stuff I've felt a little bit, lost in, but then end of the day I could step out onto the age. With my band- and there was the audience and and that experience of performing live was they are for me. So so it definitely was thing, that the euro is it where real grounding end, and I am I loved to this day, there you end up. I mean you ve been torturing fur

It's always been a central part of what you do you always sorely in rooms with people which is interesting also, as you describe yourself as as quieter as more introverted and there's sometimes association that it requires more interpreted that like on a stage being rather large amounts of people. Actually, it's really uncomfortable for me, but I've seen I had that similar wiring by the way- and I love like I'll, get up on stage and give a keynote to thousands of people. But then I need to vanish away. and just do my own thing and I'm wondering for you with your just sort of social wiring. How you experience like being regularly around groups of people like. Did it give energy did you need to recover from that, I mean, I think it is kind of exhausting in away, but you know when you're you there's a difference between stepping onto a stage to perform songs that you know very well, You ve got your your little tree with you, your band and in other there's a lot of people there.

but you're also kind of in this protected space? You know you ve got the microphone. You ve got your job to do it's not like what into a party where you don't know anybody and then you're. Just like super awkward and oh my god. What do I say, and you know it- those are different experiences, so in a way being, on. That stages is kind of a protected place to be whereas, if you're just out in the world and an to do so. Other things that that level of success requires of you sort of servicing the fame part of it. You know that be awkward in and yes, I would definitely feel that to just like my door, ten not, to anybody when I could so that it's definitely a part of you. I am I mean, that's why I have this place up in there. That's gills is cause you know I'm in the country

I don't have any neighbors close by. Nobody can see me. I don't have to talk to anybody when I need to get away. I can come up here and it's very, very quiet and it's it's really it's my I, whatever sanity I have left is because I have this place, the the oasis, the retreat from my from everything else, along the way, but I know you know it's been a long term fan of dylan and even ended up actually performing which must have been interesting for years, especially but not now, but with a kiss stuff. actually is interesting- Were we headed out of new york city where or a couple blocks from the beacon and jasper new york shut down and twenty twenty given was my last people showed out there, so we grab taken to show and he was an outright ban- wishes stunning, I'm so glad you note here

Here is a guy who would always gotta be worth lake abs. Now I think he just turned eighty like either rice year the year before you and out there on the road doing his thing packing the house. You know, and- it was interesting for me because I, like you, know, people success differently. I think especially northern entertainment and music and she's iconic and yes, he is like me like one of the most prolific, stunning lyricists and songwriters and poets of our time, the fact that he is actually like out their performing with people like you, like this far into his career in his life it was modeling, something that was just so inspiring to me. Well, I mean I look at him and allowed the people who are still out there doing it. You look at you, know: bonnie raid and I mean I was it, I'm a huge baby fan and he was out there doing it and until they couldn't anymore and- you know, there's like what else you gonna do, if you're bob Dylan or fewer beating,

are you gonna sit around at home in oath? Of course, you're gonna go out and like if you can do this thing of going out and performing with this amazing killer band- and you know step out onto disdain and people are thrilled to see you and me, that's not an experience that you're gonna get in any other way. You know you could big hollywood movie star whatever it we're never going to have an experience like that on a movie set. You know this is like the real thing you know so else you gonna do there? Is that for you, I'm curious. Is s early ultimate aspiration for you to just keep being able to keep doing that for as long as he had? I mean? yes, I would love to be able to keep doing it. You know it's a harder. Physically- and that is enough, real consideration it takes me longer to kind of work up to a tour. The days like before, I would just be like up. Gotta go on the road to morrow. Ok, let's do it, and now I'm, like you, know doing my yoga for weeks in advance and doing all my exercises and and

the german and you no carbs and sugar and all that kind of stuff, because it's it's a very fast glee demanding thing either in itself and then just the travelling in and the not sleeping enough and all of that, so it it's a different story now, but it's dead at least still there still nothing like it, and I mean I do have a part of my personality. I think where I would be fine, just like returned aaron, just read books all day and and go for walks in the woods, but that's only part My personality, my other part, really wants to be out there and just there is magic of making music and- and I really want to stay in touch with that. And I feel like we need it more than are, but also violate the world needs more than ever.

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The good life project is supported by a script so between the great resignation, quiet quitting and all these trends. Many people are making a shift toward more meaningful work that is aligned with their values and that's often an uncomfortable and messy process. But it's also often the first step on a path to freedom and in the new memoir quitting why I left my job to live a life of freedom, former has a political commentator and bt personality. Keith boy shares how leaving his job opened the door to his personal freedom and success. The book highlights living on your own terms by not just go jobs, but also changing cities even leaving relationships that don't serve you anymore, I can we lay two elements of this story. Is someone who also left behind a high stakes law career for something new? There are so many lessons to be learned from leaving a job, no matter what happens after so learn more about Keith broken journey exclusively on script, get inspired by keith bacon with quitting today with a

ray sixty day trial at try, dot, script, dot, com, slashed g, LP, that's try, dot s e, I b d d, slash flashy, lp or just click. The link in the show notes to start with a free, sixty day, trial are you thinking of starting a podcast starting a package with a cast his easy? You can grow and make money from your public has joined the same platform trusted by potash hubris stars like Peter crouch, for cotton and mark marin head over to a cast our continent for free. Such interesting. I guess it was twenty twenty you come out with travel and strife which Isn't that album tenth album some somewhere in there right? I think it's ten, I'm not sure I lost ground legend. Has it. You write this entire thing in like three days and produce it in your basement in brooklyn, then

put it out into the world. Is in the middle of this, like a season of chaos and a lot of stuff happening in the world Normally, You had taken an like that and then you'll be on the road you just be touring and working the whole time within the EU. shuts down. They literally like as you're working on this thing and then putting into the world It's a really interesting album now because you fundamentally it speaking directly, it's the most political outcome that I've heard at least and that you put out in terms of being overtly looked. Stuff going on that. I don't agree within the world, I'm taking a stance. This is what I believe and building music and offering stories around that I was curious. Do you have a sense for the role of music, in protest and social change and and the lens, unlike what you feel you personally, are compelled to do, participating in there without that's a really good question, and I think I was very hesitant to write.

Political songs me up through in my career. I would look at somebody like about marley or John lennon, or so my god and just think what I'm gonna leave it to them, because I could never do that. But you know when he sixteen happened, I have a daughter who was a teenager and we were watching the election returns on november. Twenty. Sixteen and we were very shocked that that it to happen but it did and we were very shocked at what happened in the weeks and months afterwards and how it it seemed like The things that I understood about amerika were me not true anymore, that america was this land of people who had come from elsewhere to bring the best of themselves to create this country. Was full of energy and full of enterprise and- and Yet here we were looking at the people who are, to come here to work as

as people who were unwelcoming- and we were you know, treating them almost like animals and- and you know so many other things going on and- and I just felt like well, you know Do you do when that happens? When something that you really didn't expect happened here, and my daughter was watching me, and I was very conscious of that. So I thought but what you do is you you try to help people and you try to be. Citizen, which I am and many people are and you try to do what a citizen can do You know you educated self about the issues that you care about, and you call your representatives and you demonstrate in the streets and you don't aids or raise money for groups that you think are doing good work. But Also, an artist with something of a platform mean I'm not I'm- not selling millions and millions of records any more, but I do something of a you know, public face and that something

I can use, and you know to to get my thoughts and my opinions out there and to try to have some kind of effect However small situation, and I felt Not doing that would really be too I have turned my back on something that I felt was a a responsibility at that moment. You know we all have to pitch in it's an all hands on deck. thing and- and we ve got to do whatever each of us can do so- that sent me to writing and you I had a lot of bits and scraps and and instead, I had collected over the years and you say I've, I just sort of luck, myself into a room for three four days and turned mill a lot of those into songs and I had about nine or ten songs from that time. together with band and and the basement and we worked through them and stuff.

Recording and later I you put self in the room for another couple days and came up with another little batch of songs and and that's what came this trouble and strife record. There In addition to this, like those sars army describing a teenage daughter the one of the songs on their never get tired of loving use, actually knelt before or you know it a sort of a message of stability in an uncertain world to a certain extent yeah I mean I you know just to say this again like I. I think that you know writing it. You know I'm describing this record, it's not like a lecture series or anything. I I wanted music, one of them is to be able to do what music does witches in deliver net It is in a way that can still be energetic, enjoy full and still you let someone know that you love them in care for them and that that's you know allow music to do what it does best, and I do think

You sort of touched on this earlier, but I think music has a very important role to play in the world right now because of the very unique power that it has. There are so great that there's something that, in the two for when different walks of life and different beliefs and different opinions. I can stand next to each other and be similarly affected. Its speed to something that is shared between us right. It's like oh for a moment in time like we're feeling something similar, and maybe I can see a little bit of you and me, and maybe you can see a little bit of me and you, and maybe that's just like a of opening of the door there absolutely, and you know we ve been unable to do as many lie, performances in the last handful of years as we would like to but and we do have that opportunity. We really to take it, because I think that power that you're talking about that music has its work. The few arenas in our world right now, where people of different policy all views different parties. different opinions about this, or that issue

and come together, and you know that we're not in salting each other on facebook weren't, you know we're not. killing each other were actually just looking at it there is fellow human beings and enjoying this amazing here, experience of of music and- and I think that communities need things like that. They they need places where that can happen, and they need moments where that can happen. Deaths I agree with that- curious also so, heard a conversation that event recently, where he's talking about a change that happened in the way the here being musician and working in writing when it became apparent, describe it? As he said, you know for me to write when I write, I need to go down that into the ocean in the rough water and sometimes stay there for long scary periods of time and are not safe. I said when it began. parent and I'm kind of paraphrasing him now sitting. when it became apparent, I realize it, My primary role is not to do that anymore, but I still needed

find a way to get that feeling tiktok in that state, but not be announced in that way, because I needed to actually be safe and granted centre for my kids for my family, I'm curious how not even here but if you feel like being apparent as changed. Your process or your approach for the way that you think about leaning into the music. Well, I think it's chain in a couple of different ways, and the first way is just a simple practical thing, which is: that you don't have a lot of time to waste and he fell when repair it you a whole lot of stuff that you have to do all day every day you know, you might think that you're done without job and then suddenly you know some day. Happens in need this you this project, that you were working on for your music ups Put that aside, there's some emergency with the kid and whatever site your on call twenty four hours a day, seven days a week, and that comes your primary focus so the time

but you do have to work on your music. I think I could have been like that world class procrastinator of all time and I'd be working on a song it'd be like. Oh, I did really get it today. Maybe I'll take a walk, you don't time for that stuff, anymore you're, just like I gotta get in there. I gotta get this work done. I gotta do it and and in a way it serve liberating because you don't allow yourself to waste all this time and it can be a real good thing for years self discipline as a creator, and then I also think that emotionally it d then, the way that you look at the world in the way that you think about your place in it. you know what I cause. I've been doing this for a long time, and because I have this, of my daughter I know as as in a way my most important audience member I Do something that can be? of a body of work that,

can be proud of and that she can be proud of as well, so I think it is makes it all a little bit more meaningful in that way there never make so much sense. To me, job Dr comes out, and you love touring, you can't or basically automatically at this. The thing that you would normally do the thing that you love to do is no longer available to you, your one hand its aid measures devastating. On the other hand, it also sounds like in no small way leads to this next element leads to radio waves coming into existence, because I have to imagine that, but for the fact that you're delaying like homebound for a solid chunk of time. You can't go out and tour Yet all this only like ok so what do I do now? Oh absolutely, I mean I was stuck at home like so many other people and in know I started doing these d

cleaning things that I had been putting off for years, and I saw the back of some closets that I haven't seen you since you know maybe the nineties and- and I found all This stuff, I found all of these cds and cassettes and files and and your things that I had just forgotten that I had and medium if it was from visiting radio stations around the country from you all the way back to the late eighties, early ninetys, and you know when you have a record out. As you know, you you go in you tour. The country in every city you go to you, go to the local radio station in the day and then you talk to the dj new play, a few songs live and- and then you're off to the next thing, your interview, you sound check or whatever, so we know we ve done is hundreds of ties myself in the different musicians that I've worked with a lot of times as we beyond our way out

the engineer would step up and hand me a cd and say: oh, this is what you did today and I'd put it in my bag and throw it in my suitcase and we'll stick it in a closet. Forget that I had it. So had years and years and years of this stuff just sitting around and and I finally because of covert had the time to not only realise it was there but start listening through it and it I was kind of surprised at how much I liked it. I'm I'm normally my own worst critic, and I I really liked so much of it and because so much of it was done at radio stations. The audio quality was really really high. So was like. Well, maybe could be something I think you know, especially if the fan can't come out and hear me live because of covered. Maybe I and put this out and it'll, be something similar yeah and I have to imagine as your discovering

more and more and more and more- and this is decades of war rain, and then I would imagine we get a lot of it. You hadn't you anymore, realise or remember, like you had these things or what was even on them, but you're serve like finding these different things and tapes and cds and and throwing the men had listening. I mean it you have been also just on a personal level- a really interesting, just sort of like walk back through time for you Absolutely I mean some of this stuff was like sets of rehearsals from the eighties, and you know really old old stuff, and it did it sort of force me to reflect on You know I've been doing this for thirty years now and even longer than that may be thirty. Five, that is a long term view- and I think it away it's a sort of made me- stock and just peace. grateful, for being able to have made me

life in music and being able to had this incredible expense in there's, not a lot that you can. Old, with your hand, because most if your lie performer, most of what you do is totally ephemeral. It disappears as soon as its done. You know you to be there on that night to experience it. Otherwise it's gone so Much of what I have done in my life as a musician and as an artist its disappeared. So it was great to have these little time. Capsules of these requests things to go back and listen to be, like all wow that song. I forgot that I even ever did that and oh wow this this time of of life- and I was working on this thing in my voice- sounded like it did back and and and just it in. I sort of waited too. you're, looking back through your high school year book or something, and at the time you thought that you were

awkward and you are ugly and you hated your hair and your skin was bad and whatever, and you just thought you were you know that All you know person and then you look back and you're like. Oh, my god, I was so cute why? Why did I think that about myself It was such pow sweet you, so I in a way, is kind of like that. I'm I'm looking back on all these different times. You know just thinking oh wow, there's something really really beautiful about them. yeah. I know some of what was in there ass. I mean there are a lot of la recordings, radio stations and stuff like that, and this It was demonstrates also yeah, there's one track on there, which is. I was a demo originally of dream, a little dream, yeah, which um I guess he used to sing to your daughter when she is like a little kid and you have this beautiful. demo other dead ends up on their riches. major lands and a heart so immediately set, great song here I'd. I did used to sing that song to to my daughter. She was falling asleep at night and

you for a second I was like. Oh maybe I should make a record of all and and so courted this just as like a step towards that, and then I just too busy doing other stuff and being on the road and being a mom and in everything in that idea, just cut it out shelves. Maybe they all do it, but this sort of the little remnant of that idea there how much Did you discover that you had no recollection of a half done? You know the very early stuff online My god. Is that me, oh wow. What is that? And yes, some of it is a little bit like whoa. It says it's me on the cassette, so I guess it must be, but but most of it I I'm not like a drug casualty or anything. So I do remember much of its it's ok there. There's some there's another really interesting. Chai set you made so centuries a kicks off relish and ninety five that outcome and again

makes another appearance kicking off this album here, like a jacket and a half per cent later, me. Why tell me what's going on there, we know I think I didn't realize- that the guide forgotten that relish started out with saint teresa too and you know when we were deciding what order to put these songs in. I don't just felt like a right, the right thing to start with, and I I guess I didn't mean I guess it must be one of those songs that you want to open a record with, fell but I do remember feeling in the studio that day and in the report, the radio station that self in the band were here we really had got into that place because we had played the song live so much at that point that we had sort of become that. Mind thing where you know: you start the song and yo you just sort of like you're all together- and

each one of you ceases to be an individual and you become this this unit, I remember feeling very much that that was what was happening. That day in the studio and delay, and I really that's a good reason to to put it first to because it it's kind of this you know when you record a song in the studio for your studio, album that could be a great. Data recorder, but then there is also this other place that the song gets too after playing it so many times with the band. That is another really beautiful way to express it and so I think that I was really feeling that on that day in in the radio station, yeah yeah. I wonder sometimes when you know it said the band collectively enters this flow state. when the band is play in that state, whether there something about the energy of that they gets transmitted through the song, where other people gain access to that same state. There's it's now: it's not you described it. You can't say that this is what was going on, but I was wondering

there's something about it, that is, is felt through transmission. Now, I'm totally think that's true and I think most Bans that play live will say that Had those experiences, it's almost like a transcendental experience where you know you. You understand that you're on the stage, but you banned and the audience feel like you're, just one entity. I definitely definitely have experienced that many times. I think a meal durkheim described it as I love his term collective effervescence, oh yeah, you're. Just as I do you don't like it sums up so much. So as we have this conversation, your back out on the road to europe basically grounded for a people, and then all of a sudden you drag out like you read the band, your touring again, it's gotta feel so good. does- and you know, there's something about having come through this time. When your people, he raised a lot of laws and

everybody was isolated from each other. I think there's such this pent up need not only from the audience members, but from four us has in a performers as musicians. There's. This need to had this experience. So when we do do performances, and we, when we are able to have a show its really moving and it's really kind of explosive, because I think everyone's bringing this periods of the last two years with them in and wanting it to you one to be exploded somehow by the music and and wanting to regain, in that sense of of that we'll communal moment, and that effervescence, like you say, I love that in your also torn from what I understand, with a smaller ban with a three peace which is interesting because it's almost like your inviting the audience even more so to be a part of like that to be a part of like we're, sing and together in this together. You know it's it's intimate and is

I think, we're all really wrapped around each other to a certain extent will it is- and you know these two musicians that I'm working with it, Sir Keith cotton who plays keyboards and jack Petrocelli, who plays guitar and I play but a guitar and percussion as well, and in a word to find the is unique. Arrangements of the songs that ring out these other shades of meaning and that it is a very intimate experience with the audience because If you have it like a big band and a drummer, and it's very loud whatever than I mean, that's one kind of thing, which is great, but if, if you who are doing it in a more acoustic way. Then the voice and to have more space to open up and the the meaning of the lyrics, to have more space to unfold and- and I you think it's it's a great way to go about it.

and I think we all need that more than ever it now which fills a good place for us to come full circle. Our conversation is well so in this container of good life project. If I offer up there- raise to live a good life. What comes up to live a good life to have meaningful work and to have people that you love close to you, hey before you leave. If you loved this episode safe that you will also love the conversation that we had with liz fair about her life in music, you'll find a link to loses episode in the show nuts and, of course, if you haven't already done so, go ahead and follow a good life project in your favorite listening. And if you appreciate the work that we ve been doing here on good life project go check out. My new book sparked reveal some incredibly eye opening things about. Maybe one of your favorite subjects you and then show you had a tap these insights

to re, imagine and reinvent work as a source of meaning purpose, enjoy you'll find a link in the show notes, or you can also find it at your favorite bookseller now until next time on Jonathan old signing off for good life project. The.