Lance Allred was born legally deaf in a polygamist commune in rural Montana. When he was 13, his family escaped and eventually came out of hiding in Utah, where for the first time, he had to step into a world that he had no experience navigating. Lance had always loved writing, but at nearly 6’4” in middle school, and looking for a new way to belong, his height caught the eye of the basketball coach. The game became his life and he'd eventually become a star athlete that led to college, then years playing all over the world in the pros, including a stint in the NBA. But, underneath it all, Lance never left his love of writing, and he began to share his inner life in print, authoring a number of books and eventually leaving the game to speak to and train leaders. In his newest book, The New Alpha Male, (https://amzn.to/2Ub4d6W) Lance turns his deeply reflective, insightful, and honest lens on the role of masculinity, how his experience of it has changed dramatically since becoming a dad and what he leads with now. In today’s conversation, we explore all of this, including a really beautiful moment where the truer, deeper reason for this book, and who it’s really written for, comes out.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
The my guest today- lance allred was born legally deaf in a polygamist commune in rural montana, when he was about thirteen.
His family escaped and eventually came out of hiding in utah were for the
First time in his life he had to figure out how to stay.
Back into a world
he had no experience understanding, let alone navigating
Whence it always loved writing but
at nearly six foot for in middle school and
for a new way to kind of fit in to belong his height caught the eye at the basketball coach
and the game quickly became his life here
to learn how not just to play basketball and really free,
at the rules of a society that he had not lived in. Until then
but also how to immerse himself in this game. That became the centre of his life and communicate with his teammates without being able to hear them
becoming a star athlete. Eventually it led land.
college then years playing all over the world and the pros, including a stand in the nba but under
They had all lance, never left his love of writing and profound self inquiry behind. He began to share his inner life in print authoring, a number of
sufficiently leaving basketball to speak
and train leaders in his new
spoke the new alpha now
whence turns a deeply reflective, insightful and honest lens.
on the role of masculinity in his own life, how his experience of it has changed, dramatic
dad effectively moving through a breakdown in his own life and
what he is sort of here to do and how he describes the role of being in here,
is male slash, masculine body and psyche now
today's conversation, we explore all of this, including a really
beautiful moment about where the two,
were deeper reasons for this book lie and who is really written for that.
sort of weaves it's way out in the conversation, and it's really powerful moment. I think so excited to share this conversation with you. I'm jonathan fields of this is a good life project.
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Yeah most people think I wanna talk about basketball. Unlike gosh hears about military things had rather talk about than just basketball la
Firstly, you know, will touch down there, but there is no there's a whole lot of different entirely different, certainly vignettes that I want a kind of explore with you
yeah, starting out when you were a kid because you, u, I grew up just outside of new york city, pretty conventional upbringing. You had pretty much anything, but what I would call a conventional upbringing.
Yeah man? Well,
is all about.
What is weird, what's normal august
when you grow up in that world is very normal to you, bad as
travel the world fur gash since two thousand biplane professional basketball. Now speaking it
You have back, and you say I definitely
A pretty none
Standard at bringing grown up with four hundred first cousin,
running around the wilderness, it s like loaded flies and all that bad there,
some magical things about it to justice,
of living in the forest.
in the wilderness in montana, were
This is all about wild out there in your backyard to go off and explore,
and dream as a kid and
Those are memories. I would never change for anything
and the sense of community of having.
Everyone there so invested in a dream, just as you are, but the door
database shadows also when you grow up in a religious coal, and this call it what it was, it was a cold
Do you have a lot of abuse of power?
I have a lot of emotional abuse, spiritual psychological abuse,
I stories is one of many by irish tourism told
by a sunday school
teacher when I was five gotta, maybe deaf as a form of punishment,
and so you have these very warped internal narratives of
our yourself worth and who you are and how your appearing in the world an
What is the world around? You is a world scary place where it is a safe place. I grew up in a world where I believe
my very well how to die,
for my religious beliefs
that we were ready for the government
and at any moment, and take us out.
We have that kind of paranoia and left
distrust adjust life in general.
And so with that
there is also the truth that, because I was born in its religious community, didn't think about things like our age factor
My mother was a negative. I was a positive blood type and I was born, but when I was inside her room or body was killing me off the parasite cause
was recognised in my blood is a different type.
As on very lucky to be alive. But when you are raising polygamous commune their whole medical practice really is outrageous chest and guy Jesus is coming again.
and so I have the eighty percent hearing loss
very lucky to be alive because of the orange factor and because of these oversights were willing.
Just mines refuse to.
Integrate a merry with science:
but on the other hand, he had the scientists completely cutting out magic, that the universe is that
we're here for a reason that this is all magical was not
Some mindless accident- and I think
Einstein said about sammy religion without signs signs that religion is dangerous. You happen
the marriage of both these she made
To know that.
The more we learn in life, the more we learn, how little we know and
owing to that and having some ah in wonder to them
asking and the power of the universe, but I
On the other extreme were signed,
Was all devil work better?
Was trying to give it
religion and so.
There were those negative aspects to answer your question in a very long winded way, bathroom
travels around the world.
swinging back and forth the death of religion and the pain and heartbreak of seeing those illusions fall apart,
into the opposite, whereas
very angry at my upbringing and
shows you saw all of it out with the bathwater cause. You know.
the whole thing yadda believe god exists, but the real question is what gotta we even talking about repeat
say don't say we got, doesn't exist and
through lots of bumps improves, is at my choice,
was around the world of getting kicked around enough times.
I've learned to have the humility to say you now, I'm just
simple human being. I don t know anything and I have
humility to acknowledge that as
that bringing with religion at my hearing loss of my
ability to watch people on their body. Language. I've always live in a very quiet world, and so
It's always forced me to be introspective and just an
Human behaviour in general and cultures are fascinated with culture, and I let the talk about our explore. Am I
bringing from a very extreme radical culture, definitely paved the way for that. At the same time, you grew up in it
walter that also really isolated you from every other culture and
It is a sense of fear around the
interacting with any,
and who was in some way perceived as being other.
yes, you know so there was I get. The early days were very. On the one hand you become ultra fine tune, unperceptive, you're, sort of picking up all sorts of queues.
dad, I'm sure a lot of other people miss because you have to that's how you survive? Is you have this extra
a sense of perception and that
same time, it's always
perception contained by this one, very narrow defined universe,
and never outside of that and you're like fiercely discouraged from ever even wanting to explore outside of it absolutely
that's, how all structures, a power, maintain, control
I grew up in a world where very much the pattern of uttering was just what you did.
And that's what makes us so special. We other others to make ourselves more important than we are
we are in.
grew up in a world of other
but also conspiracy, theorist p
who say america's gods greatest country, but also, we cannot
our government and so on,
oxymorons their backs the funny thing about it all
is that when someone is spouting out a conspiracy theory weather
Really doing is making themselves more important than they really are that, together
we'll go out of their way.
to single me out and oppress me that the government
has the time on his hands. To worry about me, I'm just a simple human being, and so we create this himself a feeling prophecies.
the government can be trusted. So we have to live on. The fringes of society were renewed
longer adhering to the rules of the lad becoming outlaws and criminals, thereby inducing the government's rat.
To come and penalize us for breaking the law
Which creates a self fulfilling prophecy that a government is always out to get us.
and so that narrative becomes a vicious fishes feedback loop and a culture like that. But another point that I love to bring up with people is,
How quickly are to look at another culture or a cold or a group.
and label them as a crazy caught.
When really icy, cold behaviour all over the world is everywhere.
cold is any organization that does not allow you to leave with your dignity intact and number two.
Court mentality is hearing in seeing only the things you want to see and hear the sober.
definition. You can be a corporation
were you you're talking points?
always told the lie
you have your.
cliche cultural values and principles will be added. At the end of the day. There is unspoken agreements
Everyone knows exists that if you break em, there's held the pay, even if there are not clear guidelines but
basketball teams are sports teams in their fans in general there
come across, so many sports fans
That is amazing how they
real shame, a player who leaves their team
and burn their jersey and scream betrayal?
but when the team and the general manager trades that player away this, like, oh
while the powers that be there, the guys in charge odyssey, they must have all the answers and they must,
smarter than everybody else,
but reverse the whole premise of marketing sports changes. Do you have
You sell the idea that you are
smarter than everybody else, to be making these big decisions about rosters and players, and so therefore
the fans you been paying thousands of dollars over the years or so invested in a brand
we're an idea or a tribe that for them to cut
losses and say: oh yeah, I'm dumb being a mixed fan. They then would have
but back ass, a man I spent thousands of dollars, maybe millions of dollars being a mixed fan, and now what was out all that for.
And so the inability to cut their losses and walk away
That's another sign a cop mentality
my father blew the whistle on child abuse and money laundering. We went into hiding when I was thirteen.
I saw sir
Many aunts and uncles who
will clearly say, or no, no, no, if
I leave now than all the years of working for the dream, for the commune you'd all would have been for nothing, so people's inability,
have their losses, is explore
We did s called structures
so these things are very pretty and I am very sensitive to and is nothing has now.
Did you do with rational or logic at all,
it's pure emotion and
is also very much imprinted,
viable for pat mentality,
tribal mentality and people
get the immediate reward, knowing that their safe by seeing anyone around them,
into the same unspoken contracts, but also this
invisible rules by
the rules that allow us to believe that our team is the best him.
Kobe verses, libra you now
I had somebody asked me the other day. Well, how did
people decide which polygamous ruler to follow, and I
said easy, cobia, the bonn where teams you want to hear
and so I am fascinated with human behaviour in human psychology, because again, as you notice, you said I had to learn to watch human language in a very different way and soda.
bringing for sure it paved the way for a very long tradition alive.
I lead now that allows me to be it.
each year in many ways to go
into these corporate settings and start to get people to actually be more reflective.
and question, why are they really do? The things are doing to make money were,
the two belong, although
things- and those are healthy questions we should be asking, whereas people end up
Our or in the status quo position authorities are threatened by philosophers and
we live now in the information age where we have the tec. Bro world has run amok with stats.
And I'll tell you something about stands as a basketball player stats informed us, but they did not drive us that we
kids scouts, someone on film and look at their staff and have an idea of what we could expect for the game, but most
then the thirteen there we're gonna throw wrinkles at us come out with a very different strategy.
And so that force us back
ah players to learn how to adapt and be flexible.
But you have so many people in power.
Gobbling up the stats for the tec bo era
You try to solidify control, thinking that we
can control the world around us.
as you well know, by now we're talking about this war,
because we have the corona virus witches
humans in hubris, thought, oh
live in america. We are exempt from any plagues,
we ve been living so long, spoiled with others vaccinations that we will be in mother earth.
and now, is like. Oh crap, we're gonna slap in the face,
being given a slice of humble pie really by saying
The stature are in everything but lives. Gonna continue to throw curveballs at us.
Do we be angry
As we thought, we had things under control or as basketball
where's, we say: okay, the teams running the are opposing teams running a different defence against the dollar zone. Now do you
the angry about it, and so it s not fair or do we say we have to adapt and we have to adjust and we had to flow with it all,
yeah. I mean it's so many sorting out of interesting points there. I'm I'm, I'm like you, I'm fascinated by human nature, also fascinated by what people will do
In this sense of belonging here you know, I have always believed that maslovs hierarchy, which is ass- you probably better expressed as a diamond and not a triangle.
and that that middle level, you know where it's like at which is belonging were really that sort of like that is the centrepiece that allows you to move up or down, and that is that is a bit
physiological need as well, and it also it's it's the route of both sustenance and growth. So it's really the starting point to move up and
and the triangle, but you know it's fascinating to me, also- is that the the comparisons that you just made with while people look at disney, say what? Oh, that is a cold, it's so extreme. It's so different than anything, that's out there in the world, but you make such a good point in the
no. Actually, we find these structures all around us all anywhere they that people crave belonging and that their
is a power structure that people want us really build around that around access to belonging access to access.
Access to identity access to agency? You know
That's all around us. You, sport is a religion,
if somebody leaves basketball or footballer baseball. You know that's called heresy. Yeah, that's not an athletic termed that's religious,
He us a example fascinating, but comparison that you make there. You know when you can do
look all around and all these things that you think I couldn't normal and just the way
we behave, it's really nice.
All that different. It is, and it is in
love your diamond design of thought,
and I think it s a very accurate where to put it
and the need to belong, I think alike,
I'm in implies the need to believe
And send us
in a negative way, orca centres in a positive way- and I loved, I think, is a brilliant thing. Think of shared out.
They always something new to learn at my mind's already chewing with that one
and I can imagine already did thank you think about this case.
You understand when I say that
we ve had enough of a power cold and the imf?
nation in an age where people are thinking that
the brain is in charge,
The brain has all the answers that stats left brain.
and analysis is, was gonna cost,
the world bank
we're gonna see arise at the philosophers again. We have to.
There has to be a balance. The masculine thinking versus the feminine thinking. We have to reckon
I see that the philosophers are just as crucial
the advancement of humanity in society
are those who are in
and a little brain.
Building or drying up the the numbers are the actual constructs, but the philosopher
These are the ones that are moving just the collective consciousness,
of humanity forward into
more evolution, asking questions,
where do we actually want to go.
As a human race
and what is it that were actually trying to achieve.
And so I'll, be honest as scary and stressful and difficult
cold. It is hard
traveled all over the world. There was one day when I was in Venezuela. They thought I might have Zika virus because my eyes were sealed, shut.
I haven't humility to acknowledge that that's part of life when we signed up to be guest here on this planet
Viruses and disease and illness is part of the deal
and having the humility to say, I'm just a guest here in this dimension in this vibration,
and in this scale, in this universe. Among
The parallel or perpendicular universes theory
by so many scientists,
just a guest here and do I want to throw a fit thinking. It should be my way
or do I have the humility to bow to mother earth
and say I do support the deal am where
happened to me and my family. I have
have some humility and surrender to it,
it doesn't mean that I become reckless and say laissez faire go out, you would ever want to do and while the dice, no it's I'm gonna be responsible and we take all precautions
and when I have the humility to listen to science and art,
the humility to about
nature and walk a horse
which is masculine and feminine. Was it what we asked-
had to do on the court when you're passing the ball is a feminine act
shooting. The ball is a masculine act. If you're always passing it. You become easy,
guard. If you're always shooting it, you become easier to guard, could the deepest knows which are going to do so,
We were out there in the real world. Always trying to be masculine are always playing passive. We become easier.
But getting hard centred is learning to walk both knowing what to do
beautiful dance between masculine and feminine, and
I like this.
learning how to surrender to some,
greater than ourselves I say
ok. I now see how the game,
it's change. The raps are now calling the game differently in the third quarter than they were in the first half. Do I want to throw a fit and said
not fair order. I want to win the game as an athlete say: ok, hunger!
to adapt to the new rules.
The new rules right now is where quarantined regattas
in here, when a tighter constricted
base, but in that beautiful space of constraint that pressure fast were new ideas.
You problem solving arises and so that
the part of me with full respect, not making light of all the people dying.
although hospital workers- and I am so grateful for putting their lives at risk. That is
our job as a people staying home. To ask the big question.
Ok, where do we really want to go from here? Do we think we want to go back?
the status quo that our economies gonna pick up. Why? Where we left off, despite the fact that some people
don't have jobs, and mortgage and ran payments are gonna, be back owed and everything just gonna go.
smoothly, probably not so
it's a great time for the philosophers to step forward and say, okay, what a good opportunity for us to begin to ask tough questions as
in ways, what really is important, what really matters and
What are we actually trying to achieve here in this lifetime
so, the fact,
your brain already is. As I can tell you just a few questions, you ask the philosopher arc
I was very strong, there's a beautiful time for it
loss of hers too, really step up because they felt
The efforts have been shame for last couple decades. Now in our staff, driven,
they say they're, I really doing anything now, the philosopher
this possibility to always
keep pushing the morality of humanity
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Things occurs to me also from you share, and that is a hundred percent agree. I think we need the scientists, we need the statisticians. We need them.
Loss efforts and I wonder also of another category. That's really important is the art,
the artist or the mystic sooner, because you got the data you know, then you
the philosopher and of loss
Her to me is the person who continues to ask questions your they incur
To themselves they ask us to enquire into ourselves, and then the artist is the one who shows up and says I see a future that maybe nobody else sees yet, but I'm going to push you slash, invite you to me
We step into it with me and see how that feels to you they're, the ones who are responsible for changing the way that we see the world
You know they're the ones who help shatter the current paradigm. They move us beyond the questions, not that one replaces the other, but I think theirs is really fascinating dance and I'm I'm really curious to see who steps into these roles. As you know, the the and- and I do agree with you- I I do believe that there has been an escalation of the value of the person who asked intelligent
sweeping deep questions and thank the artists are also going to rise into a place of some importance as well, and I think it's I think they have due for so many different reasons. Are we
I jumped into the deep into the pool here, which is which has realised that renault is. However, let me
it's feeling a little bit of space here. Many people will know your background, but many others won't and- and you have referenced basketball at a lot of different ways, and you mentioned that you did end up. Your family ended up leaving when you were thirteen or fourteen. You found your way into basketball, which became a passion. People can't hear listening to your voice.
But you're from what I know note almost empty talk. This was something that you stepped into a guess
Half passion half copy mechanism, because this is another curiosity mind europe.
Gene from the world that has been very cut off from the outside world
you step into sir, like a new universe, with a profoundly different value set and like you,
when you leave that initial world, where you belong, because you followed these like these values and these rules and you step into this different world. Now it's up to you to figure. Okay, so
where is my place and in like what are the new rules here, where's my place at some curious, whether basketball was purely a passion
for you or whether it was a place to be.
Or whether it was also a coping mechanism or just all of the above or something else you very sharp. This is quickly turn into my favorite medieval,
all of the above that you just ass, I mentioned and a fourth one to which was fear and I'll go into him.
breaking away from polygamy the age of thirteen. I grew from five ten, the six for the eighth grade.
So when we came out of hiding when my father, which was we had to go into hiding for about six months and then we
that's settled in downtown solving city,
in the middle of plain sight, word no algorithmic forest for awhile,
and I started going to school, and the basketball coach saw me walking down the hall as I ks you can play basketball on the road.
Well, I don't have any friends: you'd be a giveaway them.
I in and never play basketball before, but hey, I'm tall. This give it a shot to answer all your points here,
making there. I went from a world where my cousins were my tribe and they have my back.
unconditionally without question until we dared
to rattle the paradigm in question,
already and then suddenly the disowned us
We have, in this blood buzz around me all the time to suddenly asked
and who am I? What tried to I belong to you and I grew up in this very tribal societies and so
Ask basketball to the point. You sharply noticed
was a very smooth sag way
the transition from such a whole world.
and to basically many call that we
but we have a sense of belonging
and suddenly all my teammates have my back
even though they don't really know me
With my inner ear, imbalance
again I was so I'm athletic as a kid. I couldn't play basketball. My hearing, aids Ed.
And so when I
playing without a hearing, aids now erotic alive
for my teammates to have patience
With me alone, communicate with me to grow bigger how to communicate with me,
because it was a team can shop, we were all sacrificing for each other for the great a whole that the team they were
able to have that much more patients with me so
that sense of belonging. I still alive,
I wasn't just some tall ganglia kid with a speech impediment and hearing loss of species which allows fifteen
very shy about how it sounded. When I was a kid assigned, the lockup talk on us all.
talk in the back of our mouths. Deaf people talking to back the mouse gives you feel that reverberation in your skull, so you feel like it.
You're making a sound. That's. Why get people I speak in back?
but it was until I got to digital hearing aids- think off a digital right arm
I started here a little bit, addiction in the front of the mouth and eyes
Oh that's! That's where the parties in the fund about at the back and
All that being said before that point yeah, I was very socially awkward and shy by basketball. Allow me to
trauma really of having your world completely rattled and torn apart
It can often under you as such, in
so by age of an adolescent. Boy do have
ass war. Allow me to begin to channel lotta. These neuroses that were forming for me to take off
It's intensity and focus on something that
To my mind off the grief and loss,
the loss of my cousins and with that
I share the notice hey now
I have some certain skills yeah tom ganglia, but I have some serious skills that other people don't have and it's nice to be done. Something.
And so the love of a game began before him to die ass. She saw something that could be good at tat. I can invest
my time here that I knew what a b for nothing
and then there was also the truth of fear that
we were no longer in the polygamous denomination when you're a kid who have all these stories buzzing in your head, that you are raised with a very angry and broody god that everything is
additional love there and also the story they gotta, maybe death. I have
This word concept of god and love.
and some others fear that I had to do something superhuman with my life and then I'd be worthy of love.
And if I did achieve something remarkable. Then I wouldn't be
were they love, but I dont think
He had to be a kid like me going,
a polygamy, I think it has had to be anybody
especially men too,
I grew up in a western culture where we were
Oh, that you had to achieve all these status markers and then you're an alpha.
right, then you're worthy of love than the most beautiful girl will love you. It doesn't have to be
background. I think so many men
were raised and that especially those who grew up in a cold war era,
It was basically a huge pissing contact between the usa and russia to see you.
It had the most nuclear weapons and sow is like ok, most nuclear weapons, most trophies most money in my bank account
Ah, so that fear that I think drives a lot of men still by.
Our society and those old constructs their dying.
The world is asking us to evolve as well
and become more global. As we become more internet focused.
The walls and barriers, are dissolving
and yet we are still saying: oh, I want things go back to the way they were and that's not possibly can,
had the best of both, we can't have it both ways
a lot of men,
killing themselves. We have veterans kind
now that we have a lot of men killing killing themselves in america. But we don't talk about that staff, because
We have meant that we did everything that society told us to do. Did everything that father told him to do so? The father could be proud of them, and then we finally get that trophy that job ever lie.
Wait, why am I still not happy why? Why do I
I feel that there is something missing because we're not tar.
weren't taught his boy to learn how to be intimate with ourselves at all to actually,
learn to be comfortable around skin, and
I'm not saying be lazy and be entitled, because entitlement is just a mask of shame when he had the people
going into the other and just checking out saying I'm going to be lazy and not do anything and show that I act like I don't care they do that because of pressures too much cause, I think, is,
extreme ultra hyper masculine.
Achieving or elsewhere
it's gotta check out entirely, but there is a hard centred way.
That says I'm gonna live and be brave in it.
it's a new alpha male too
I found myself itself? Actualized leadership of my own life
hey, I'm gonna decipher myself. What am I metrics of success? Clarity is where I strive for everyone,
People think should be happiness or something like that happiness has been
construed by hollywood to bees.
Something that is not is really just a dopamine high when you,
said romantic movie you get out dopamine release, you feel good. Anything that's happiness. Now is an altered state of chemical in our brain.
I really think we should be looking for his clarity.
clearly to say the high brave enough to go out and strive and fail
I keep getting up every single time,
because I know that my worth is not attached to an outcome that my
if a man does not attach to an outcome
This is me a man who got to the nba
and saw them myself worth is nowhere to be found.
Are they committed suicide? A year later, in the two thousand eight economic recession, I lost my job because I still kept thinking I have to get back there.
The pain of the stories I says, my worth as a man is attached to this outcome was so
painful, I want to check out and then you
talking to a man who lost a marriage there. I thought
how to look a certain way that I
my society. Do they found my saw. My parents do bad,
the happily ever after died, pretty quickly than ever
movies, never show us what happens the day after the happily ever after life goes on.
and so few? What are learning like an hour when I strive for is clarity,
ready to have the presence in myself.
my heart in my mind, and I got all three matter: athletes she's all three instinct intuition and analysis.
Let us use all three of them in a beautiful bland that his heart centred gives us the courage
and the wherewithal to say I'm gonna show up every day I fantasy and bravely on afraid to fail,
Because I know in that failure, there's growth and in that failure
there's more clarity shining through because with each failure. More and more of the facade of the standards
I've success that we were raised with kids,
you to die away and are women,
Where is ourselves now
in plain to ask two questions.
What do I really want out of life? And-
While I choose to measure my own worth as a man kind of went off there, but yeah no, I mean, as you actually filled in a lot of gaps and a lot of really interesting ideas. I mean the idea of
clarity as as us her of a dominant aspiration, I think, is fascinating and it all
You can trace that back thousands of years. You know when you look at ancient meditative practices. When you look at buddhist
when you look at a lot of the lot of eastern philosophy, you know those practices were largely. Does
I need to remove allusion near the sanskrit word, for illusion is:
a year and a lot of it was about, let's develop or minds through a series of practices.
That allow us to see more clearly, you hear people talk about discernment and and am, and I'm a huge fan, I'm fascinated by being able to have her
levels are determined by our shops that there is no discerned in until there is clarity or or maybe more accurately. Discernment is only as good as the clarity that precedes it right because you can't make it
decision in unless we see what you know. What's the context of that decision really clearly, so I love that that's become this central focus for you that that sort of, like the thing you wake up and strive to get better and better at at it. It's fascinating to me that you talk about the fullest.
First- and this is really heartening back here- like many many many generations in societies to the thing that we humanity used to find ultimately important, absolutely
She, humanity was brave enough to go anywhere.
And ass these questions now operating funding
luzhin that were separate from the grid of all that
is all we are removing through an energy grid and
We had this illusion that god is somewhere far away that money.
Earth is some foreign thing that
he's just here were walking on it and isn't some lifeless thing like no, we has a conscience just like we do.
Being able to be inwardly, effective enough to say I'm just one piece of
energy moving through this entire grid.
energy connects through energy. There is,
there's a chain link out all keeps moving back and forth
The thing that were separate from it is a complete illusion.
and, yes, there is importance in so
actual accusation- and there is importance in wanting to
explore, who you are as unique, individual and being.
But the greatest shoot I'd probably have learned is that once
finally, had the courage,
see just how insignificant I am
can't you see just how important.
I truly em in the greater whole,
as a contributor to the greater whole.
and so once we let go of the false narrative
That we are alone and separate china- fine,
HU we are but being willing to
bout into it and lean into it,
began to see
beautiful law, you can play to contribute to the advancement of the greater whole
I know it sounds oxfam, it would have sounded hakim allotted to me when I was in my.
internal narrative of pain. I trying to say
everything I'm gonna go out. There lived my life, how I wanna, let it and everyone else cages and
God is all a joke. I do
here's something my fat, but is the bureau
marriage of learn
to keep your balance
who you are as an authentic person while having the heat
ability to see the author
listen that you really are behind the cultural mask that we were coded or condemn
to where, but that person
who you really are a person that needs to show up to contribute to.
just the essence of
humanity itself. That's what I would tell us
a lotta gentlemen when I'm talking to them are working with them. It is important
and at the necessity of philosophy and the necessity of people
and able to be brave, and
the challenge. The illusions that we are separate
that, somehow yes,
western american logic. As that we're going to,
blaze our way, but with it here's a problem
the blazer way. Achieving all these amazing things there is a there is great
yes, we have technology moving, but with it,
keep feeling more and more alone.
And so, when we get our trophies, we get our possessions. We still feel alone.
because we believe we are alone and I were separate from it all, but instead
learning to come back to heart, centred insane
I am a unique individual person as I am
dan unique- and I am just one of many moving parts- the ability to hold back around
the yes, you one thing that occurred to me. Also. You mentioned that you had this year, where you end up playing for the cavs and but shortly after that, two thousand, a two thousand and nine hit economics hit the team. You end up, let go and get shortly after then playing in ITALY and that's when just emotionally and personally, everything falls apart. You breakdown and and come close to attempting suicide, and one of the things that I wonder about that moment is, you know,
You you leave the church, they called at the age of thirteen or fourteen. You enter the real world. You are functioning and operating and rising up as a person of status in stature and that world your achieving things at so many would like to achieve. But until then,
Moment, winger, twenty eight or so I'm wondering, if
outside you had adopted the behaviors of certainly being a part of this world, but it wasn't until everything fell apart. Some fourteen years later that this the deeper shit,
The more nuanced shift, in the way that you truly saw yourself the way that you truly saw the world around you the way that your values about yourself and people around you and your relationships resort of deconstructed and gave the abrogate to rebuild them to finally match sort of like the world that you really want to fully participate in,
oh man. I serve deeply mass the world that are truly wanted to participate in. That was it
The beautiful well said, Jonathan, that
The world I was operating in was the hyper.
ashkelon world where
plus, while equals Z, and everything is measured on how come alone.
Losing sight of grace
losing sight of the necessity
a feminine and flow and humility
stand how those are all essential aspects of our humanity.
What makes us human is our ability to feel and operate with for multiple emotions,
once masculine and feminine and dance with them
but the world where I was living in was a world of her report
we ve polygamy people, this on my father, people, discredit and my father alike. I gotta show them up. I gotta make him a crow
and I move into the hyper world of sports, where there is direct competition people
I interface trying to make you lose your job child
embarrass you in front of thousands of people and
if you win or lose your job
is pretty much.
Question every single night, so was hyper high.
Her masculine world of metrics
were you're worth, is measured on a statute that people think they can measure your heart and work as a human being by looking at numbers
but here's the catch. You can't quantify heart. He can't he can't quantify,
human intuition and chemistry.
who's gonna work well together or not even. There
a big corporations that they think they can with their statutes, and you cannot.
Neither aldo fuss
I was source afraid to show my essential south, because before us
play basketball. I was a kid who one writing awards in school. Again,
wasn't cool to do right. Back in the days, we grew up
and but that's you. I was a kid. My parents hours encouragement of eden right as communication skills.
And so the ability to express and write a letter
Talk about the artist and the poet, the poet is the artist who can write down the unknowable and make understandable.
And that is an essential
a type that makes me me back
Pardon me that I hid that I wore a mask over for you
cause. I don't want my team it in a locker room to know that I was home, writing poetry in doing all the staff, because that would mean I was weak.
So there was this man.
and a gladiator
with a bleeding heart, and although there was performer,
for years- and I say: ok, but when I get to the nba
I'll be worth it and then
deep, wounding that I have this feeling of inadequacy or-
here, to show who I really am would disappear and that could be more authentic and.
There was all illusions and where our fellow
Am I what was it off were
just sound and fury and in their name
attentive suicide. There
His are still recall. It was so much lucidity. It was like. I felt my brain split in two.
That the crazy hyper logic mind as always, going always going just like died and the other part that is just tap into the creativity, the creation of all
Though the part that chooses to remain connected to
the necessity of all that
is and where will always be? What came is what came forward for me in that moment that guy
I gotta took control of the will buy it
me about a year to really recover from that. What doctors will call a nervous
down and my friends in a recognized me anymore, and it took a lot of work to rebuild,
brain. Basically haven't you require the mother board
where of may,
blind spots that we all have
culture is one of our biggest blind spots that culture
It takes so much of how we
we logic it and logic is a huge blind spot
and if you see everything around your agreeing to the same way, we process information than we think is logical, but to another culture. It may be completely illogical.
We have all these cultures and I played in around the world that are safe.
Their values are the best values and they went
being a logical and irrational
the rational is being
what to see everyone's different logic and bring them together and help edwin find a win win
So the challenge are going back and rewiring my brain and understanding that my purse,
you missed. Mormon upbringing was like a man
Soft windows software system that was installed
but my brain, I'm happy
to uninstall it, and
you open source like linux, or something that other people have any figure out. What the hell I'm gonna do here and be brave enough to
start typing in my own values and metrics and algorithms
with which how I want to process the world now,
to live in the world that you so beautifully put the I want to live in
because even in our world today, there are many universe is happening and their costs,
because now we have alternative facts. We have.
All these meredith
these paradigms. Recall them paradigms were narratives, but really there immersion to be universes.
Tat were looking at people saying why universe matches,
what what universe have you been living in
It is a little question because the EU
MR choosing to operate in. Why me
All of us are being asked to shift were
move into another universe or world that we want to live in
many others are staying behind and throwing fits
I too have nature and evolution to stop changing
which is the most ridiculous ask ever because that's not how eva nature and evolution works, we adapt or we die. But that moment
my brain really short circuiting,
and the hard drive trying
it really is. I am. I know it sounds metaphorical
but it really is the best way. I can describe it because it feels pretty accurate, as I think our brains are just a much more com.
located processing system vacuum process,.
A lot of emotions while
It is that we now aren't very emotional intelligent yet, but we
the ability of our hearts and our brains are process, multiple emotions at the same time, but with that
break down. Have my brain, I took me
about two years before I really became somewhat,
That again, but ask
and I fell in love with her the love of my life.
I still have another story there, how I get married and then I'll be really happy and
world fell apart to.
and so those two huge gas of dreams with
and seven years of each other, two thousand eight
in two thousand fifteen the divorce.
A lot of loss, but
as the toll we pay for clarity is loss and heartbreak.
so many people are trying to find the staff are there to help them avoid heartbreak but harbour
is our greatest teacher ambassador clarity stars to shine through.
And over the last ten years of work and through that
continually being brave and I have to say about how
I go into
Shoe to show up in this world and where do,
I find the world that I want to live in.
it was a ten year journey. Before I started to write a book, they knew alpha mail that came out
I would sounds true couple weeks ago.
that was ten years, I think to a philosopher or the people.
Who understand the necessity, a process you you can't.
you can't rush timing. You can't force timing
much as people with the infamy
Action in data like weaken, just keep pounding.
Penetrating through and make things be, whether or not but the great
ass, well players in the moment when they are in the zone, when a basketball players
his own. He is so in a beautiful balance, emasculate in feminine passing.
in flowing shooting when he knows when issue now,
aiming as shots he's, not
in his head he's in his entire body, and he said his heart guide the way and he's not forcing it
he's not aiming at he's, not try and make it to be. What is not supposed to be he just in it were everything, is understanding and respecting the process of timing and flow.
That's when we see the greatest send in their peaks
when they're not in their head analyzing, when you're analyzing, all the time you fall,
step behind on the basketball court,
how to have the trust, trust your body, your heart, instinct and intuition, just be.
In the flow of law and ass well,
how true power, because
have surrendered the illusion that you actually are in control. That makes a lot of sense to me here. The way describes or these sequential to quench losses and then use are being brought to your knees, a number of times over and re, examining and re examining similar language that user. You repeated in our conversation to his heart, centred.
Is really an exploration of masculine. Feminine was interesting. Also, as you have said, male female you ve said masculine feminine. You know as if there's an understanding that that these are qualities that exist in all of us and how we choose to marry them and bring them forward in the world is not preordained and but is something that we really need to actually examined, and part of that is deconstructing. The age old model here at one of the things that you share is yet that certain that that second big moment are being brought her knees was when your marriage fell apart and at that time also your your father to a young son. So in this process of re imagining. How do I want to bring myself to this world? How do I want to create myself and how do I want to create the world around me and what is the role that I want to play and in the set of values and curious weather
This was something that was really informed by how you wanted to experience your life as much as thinking. I've got this tiny little boy here. Who's gonna, look to a certain extent to me to try and understand how to be in the world, and I want to see if I can get as close as I can to some answers as soon as I can so that I can model something that I hope might be helpful to
great question becoming a father was
amazing experience to realise that my son is just a mirror.
And he's just a living extension and made here is like someone had taken up
piece of my heart. I just put it
outside of me, and I could see it and I can see
walking round again
he's now. My life is like I've known him all my life, but he's only
and in this incarnation for six years, but I've always known him and.
Air force me both to answer. Your question is likewise: ok
how do how does it
me too. We examine.
The world I want to live in,
what world do I want to have for my son,
but also it forced me to question
no longer get to make it all about me
that, even in the pain of a loss of a divorce, I couldn't even go even further.
Working on the wiring. Even if I wanted to. I couldn't go to the poor
the sparrow I just want to check out. I commit suicide
yours, I'm responsible for somebody else
and he is responsibility number one I dont get to be myopic like that anymore and with them
there's been a beautiful dance of.
My son continue to help my emotional intelligence and my emotional growth by
me, helping Simon, learn to just say,
and breathe and expressed
but his feeling
I'm not a six year old kid tellin me, hey dad, I'm frustrated, I feel really frustrated
it's happening right now. When I try to do that
Big word for sexual:
She had to be thrown out there and
never would have entailed articulate fabric frankly,
not a lot of its grew up in homes like that, especially again during the cold war era, where
We were given permission to be that amount
Show me intelligent too,
did you find your feelings had learned to get
and I'm always jealous. I might take a breath scanner bodies. Man
Joanna bodies is ground ourselves and get back to centre.
and those skills as a basketball player? I learn that I get to reply in real life that when you're back,
about player and you're afraid that you miss your last three shots and now you're playing
here you living in the past, but the way
The best teammate is to have
Count ability saying you know where I miss three shots to popular in the best shots, but that's where we're supposed to happen because ass, what happened? I accept it.
I choose to be in the moment, and now I had the ball. I'm here, I'm present.
Does me taking a shot. The best thing for the team I now or is it the pass? Wait there back and off me
as I have on the table, ass three shots, my shop.
the best shot, we're going get on the shock cycle. I have to shoot it.
I have to keep showing up and I have to keep flowing at it and that
when you're able to just breathe in the chaos of a basketball game
and everyone's around you're losing their mind and the fan
judges, batshit, crazy,
long beers and things everywhere. You like I used to be present. I
To be in my body trusting my body,
The skilled I've been able to share with Simon, but he held me out the permission to
we integrate them into.
My real world, to the point you you're talking about
I used to say I'll have integrity and the same person everywhere I go behind, live two compartment lives,
There was lands on the basketball court in there
ass in the real world, with my family and loved ones.
but now it's ok, basque
dying. I haven't,
I'm retiring to be with my son, I'm going through a divorce. I can,
just leave that dark
at last, a slit someone's, throw and go further juggler and when the game, the land,
people led to cheer for them my family,
they ever want to come off. The basketball court is
Ok, that's a big part of who I am I,
just let that part of me die the summit
at least do when they think they retire
and that's why one day going to the obesity.
violence, suicide, lots of issues,
office when they retire
cause you're, not learning how to integrate.
These two worlds there were living in an earlier
An essential part of who they were thinking they have to them there that hyper, compare
If, but also, I call the dark feminine dark. Feminine is like a black without energy that you don't you.
automatically go and look for confrontation
but if someone comes into your space and they think they can disrespect, you were violate you.
the black widow energy, as you think, you're smarter than me I'll. Let you play
with his fire and then what
by yourself on fire all step over your burning courts. That's too bad!
way I can describe that was
or the energy that I played with on the basketball court.
We had a lot of players, shine the forces in b, something they weren't, but I
learn to be survival as a basketball player, because I wasn't most athletic guy
I learned to do many many things, and that was a very feminine act by learning.
Be very fluid and
So that was a part of me, the high.
I had to learn to integrate
into my world that
now consolidating into one as ours, retired from basketball.
Being a father to Simon true,
we do that, and I
It has to
She, how healthy it is to live in full authenticity,
that we have a lot of men who is still haven't, learn how to balance masculine and feminine.
that are rising up in social media as influencers, you would just really angry dudes, who were just spy,
putting massage any and every thing saying we need to go back to the past
where the man, the women of china rise up and take our power,
that's a lot of fear,
and those are men whom and playing a very one dimensional game of hype.
Masculine, and they
have enough skill sets that the universe has thrown them a ball
But because they only have because their game is very one dimensional, all they could do was dunk so to speak, but the deepens has adapted.
and now they can get close. The remedy can dunk it and they never took the.
To develop the bank shot or the jump
I now speaking a metaphor- is here but aspect,
they were seeing that these guys are getting benched and their upset.
and rather than them, have the humility to say I should probably start developing other scales for my game of life. There now thorn timber tension
on the bench cussing coach out saying this is unfair, does not help
sk about worse and that's not how the world works, who those who are willing to adapt their wants. It survive
four Simon. I wonder
Help Simon understand the beauty of being cerebral beam.
The fact that a masculine and feminine and he
then a wonderful opportunity for me to take
so many of my basketball experiences.
to see how I can apply them into my life. As a father and teacher,
As my son to happen,
a better player of life, not just italy, but in the game of life.
And that's allowed me to be a better teacher and is what I do for a living now and have so much of it is due to my son at first glance, when m had lifted the blanket looked like okay, so you wrote this for sort of a general and at a mass popular audience and then the more I learned about gear, the more I start to think then the more we're in conversation, the more I start to think. Oh no. This is at a bit of a love letter to his son, and then
the more I think about it. Even a little bit more feels like you didn't write this to him. He wrote it with him. I do it well,
Man you're a sharp. Do there really is a letter to my son and daughter,
yeah and everything all the pain and other
Ass, my wife, that I hope
that, gives him not.
A better start, a life to take my experiences.
learn from them vicariously, but also have.
When life hurts. That is the best thing I can do for him as a father,
to help him have as many skills as possible to been everything, this game of life and a heart centred way and
It was a love letter to my son.
It also was me
in many ways again to be rebuilt to me as many people as I can wear their at. I can't
simply be on a mountain speak into all these p
what time is show the world how smart? I am pete,
Care how smart I am as wedding, I tell
all the time, we try to throw stance and be the smartest guy in the moon.
People want to know if you simply care.
Actually have walked through fire yourself and workplace. You ve paid as a human being
to show your humanity in this world
So, instead of trying to be the smartest guy this book which
lot of trojan horses too,
as many people where there had been at the core,
yeah. Let's son, it's his is a love letter to my son and thank you for,
saying so beautiful away and eloquent may that means a lie, and it helps me feel seen and heard
in my own way. So thank you. Jonathan Demme is a lot now this. This feels like a good place for us to come. Full circle
also so the were hanging out in this year, this container good life project. So if I offer up the phrase to live a good life, what comes up
To me, the good life,
To live a good life,
being brave enough.
being brave enough to hold
Heartbreak of life, in one hand,
and the other hand holding gratitude for those experiences and the clarity that give us and holding him in your heart? At the same time,
Because we think we can only feel one emotional once a reality.
To be happy or sad? You can be both at the same time. You can
you can walk in beauty, which is understanding and seeing in holding the heartbreak and, alas, it had in your life.
And she used to be a teacher through those exe
Answers is not a victim.
And seeing how those experiences.
I've, given you so much clarity and that's where your gratitude comes in. Thank you.
The thank you so much for listening and thanks also to our fantastic sponsors who helped make this show possible. You can check them out in the links we have included in today's show notes and while you're at it, if you've ever asked yourself, what shall I do with my life? We have created a really cool online assessment that will help you discover the source code for the work that you're here to do. You can find it at spark: a type dot com. That's s, p, a r K, e t Y p e dot com for just click, the link in the show notes, and, of course, if you haven't already done so be sure to click on the subscribe button in your listening app. So you never miss an episode and then share share the love. If there's something that you've heard in this episode, that you would love to turn into a conversation, share it with people and have that conversation, because when ideas become conversations that lead to action, that's when real change takes hold, see you next time.
Transcript generated on 2023-06-22.