« ID10T with Chris Hardwick

Matthew Weiner

Writer Matthew Weiner sits down with Chris to talk about how Mad Men changed the style of men in their 20’s, the culture shock viewers get from watching what life was like in the 1960’s, the difference between writing on The Sopranos and Mad Men and his new film and directorial debut Are You Here! See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
What, then, are despite guess, number five sixty one to be performing with the above fast. Friday and one tat New York. They see their right to say one tug wanta, so I know that from performing their maybe but we're gonna be a d, no kind of Jones Beach Theatre with slew of other comedians, some really good comics that you may have heard of lake, though we see Caser, Silverman, Dilber, a tell animal Jeff Ross Dirty Stevens will be they're gonna above as that come to get tickets. Also, Saturday, is these series eight, mere of doktor who, with Peter capacity it is pronounced capacity by the way cause. I asked him. We did the event. Last week in New York, we screen the show for the diver worker girl to her, and it was the cats ethnic he's he's going to be very good doctor. Of course, I always miss when a doctor goes away, but when a new doktor comes in there's another spaces
like the like the hands of the clock, so that it's Saturday it is preparing at eight p m doktor, do and then we're on with the little who, after show at eleven ten central. So please watch that and let us celebrate the new season of doktor who, together this episode, is Matthew. Weiner, who created a show, called mad men,
also wrote on a show called the sopranos and he's a incredibly interesting guys, obviously super smart, and if you, if you really want to, if you really want to learn how to craft something an idea, man is a good listener to, because the man has an incredible. I for detail in his super super super smart. So he has a movie out right now, which actually it's a mean depending when you listen to this. It opens August twenty second, but its stars. Own Wilson's act out an act as any polar than the films called. Are you here? He rode and directed it, and you know it stay. I mean he's already: mad men still even hasn't even played out, yet there is still a handful more out of the air next year and maps are doing other stuff. So I am very pleased to hear this. He was a wonderful Atocha reasoners by gossamer five sixty one with Matt Weiner. Also, you can see us bowl against him on also slavery. Bowling revolt against them
men just while back on our Youtube General, so watch Matt Ball and I wasn't doing doc start the thing nor entering noted in Stockholm. His lots almost a hundred years old there. So if you stop, ripping the walls open, you'd find some shedding. I think it was Desi Lou, yet are sound, Our stage was the original Lucy stage. That's call, that's good especially when we made like forty five sharp jokes today. I think we really brought really paying the fine tv
You see Desi lucratively, hat yeah, you can't you know you always want to be on a stage. It has some kind of good luck to it, but when I was a paramount way on a show and they go. You know they shut citizen Kane on the stage and I was like We get here. You know so much crap that goes through it, but you know Renoir, yes, which is on the corner underwent idea. Genji did dumb, we weeds there and we want to go there. They have the highest success record. Very small Renoir. Does all my God, like everything like even Seinfeld. Was there the You're like there are so many famous shows that went through their errant. Rumours are going right. Am I guess I wonder crossing technicolor, that's awesome this one have. You saw a list of people who had shot there, it's like when you got a Broadway theatre in the back. They tell ya the place. I ran it. Some of my good. Some are bad, like everything there made it and just like superstition was a kind of innovative without so funny that, because when I don't want you
still shooting madman in the same place, but we are about where we're done, while you're done yet when did you shot? Yes, yes, we shall therefore seventy but what's interesting about those studios that that studios it I've been there to shoot other things and all of the offices look like the original Sterling Cooper offices. My part, the reason we pick the studio, Why can't you just clean them up you you just cleaned up now we read everything, but we did like the idea that we could shoot anywhere in this building has its from the period there's a lot of furniture that was left behind they just when, when seventy six union, seventy six oil company ran it at own. Did it was building and then they bottle the houses next door and turned into a studio the tower still there and everything, but we they just left all the furniture behind an AIDS really valuable. There's like all this incredible midcentury furniture in there
done some of at least was shot in the top floor which which, if you ve, got it. Finally, they ve. Unfortunately, they ripped renovated for different reasons, but we we fix, allow the stuff up but the top floor of it. It was Oklahoma Oil Company and the entire tumblr was to offices and in the centre was open to the world, and I was like what was a hollow partner like no. It was a barbecue she's a barbecue in the top of the middle, the building which is, which is, I think they realise at that time, was not a good idea. I don't know they are waiting to be too far from home and I got a call from a whale guys, so they just open this the roof they. It was just like a big open pit and like it you know what it is like a for a party. I guess that's what you do if you vote for my money you're just like I want a skyscraper, but I want to make sure we gotta barbecue, I'm I will note a lousy tangibly, because without a God, Damn indoor barbecue. Ok, that runs on oil, because people just ran it on oil. It's incredible
but that was I love that lots really interesting at its grey. They fix it up over the years. To oh, it's it's very. I mean you know it has its charm unfortunate, we're escalators that went in between the floors and close the markets. They can repair them certain points of the hallways, a really long and scary. Like the longest, always you ve ever seen by other point, like I remember, there's a door. Across the hall from us, but are our hallway is literally. Six or seven hundred feet, long from the elevators crooks, and I was there a late at night when night, there was a knock on the door and I opened up the door and there was no There are no. I guess they had gone right across the hall. Is the only place you It was fast enough, but I just thought there was no one else there it was. It was. A great harm will be moment. That's the debt is that is a really creep, that might be goggly. Creepy aired some ghosts in there, but I everything I've had a great via their and the deaths than I have.
I wrote the entire series that was in the office when I came in there that did you keep it, I'm still their cells Eddie, I'm going to say whether and when I take it, This is the big announcement we're going to announce. Mad mentions the after showed ferment of an essay thy sight, a party and as like arrogant arrogance, momentum in Africa, and you go no like I know I'm getting are now. I know they buy now they want to do it looking other fun, but I just I don't there's enough calmer, there's enough conversation about the show immediately. We don't need to do it. It was a mean- and I certainly I think I think to after shows is more than enough- that any one person should do. Yes, yes, and it's it's I don't know I am I resisted- is much of that as I can you notice or just keep it within its world Weber. So it's all over the stuff. We just try to keep pure on some level I hadn't watch what why I came under in the second season, and if you like, I'm always behind on everything
I am too you know was talk when by the third seasons and because I just watched it really and in the back of my mind, I'm thinking like I am that post everyone is now. Do you gotta watch you gotta watch, you gotta watch a new kind of wanted to die down. Oh, I didn't watch Seinfeld like season, for I didn't much friends until even later, if you watch madman, it's a good show. I hadn't madman, I don't wanna be other languages. I started watching right. It is not an isolated out of now, but I can remember hang around the copy cause he's kind of a common, so you're going out at the comedy shows an editor. I knew him so too casually and I hadn't watch the show yet and at that time that was, you know you guys were sort of doing for that section of cable. What the early. I don't know if this is this. I hope you take this cover, but like when dream, on came on and HBO. It was like mile they're making like really good, shows on what was otherwise a channel that just showed movie No, no, I mean it's a. It said it was a he. It was who
thing to even explain to people where We were there we, any right that I am see, I think had already wasn't couldn't show like that same movies is Turner. They were some kind of loss it or something of their didn't even have like that. That Super classic moves that they had. They just switch to an ad format, which of said a lot of also. There is a lot of stuff that was sort of like mixed into zero, and you know I told you, call your. I was like the success of the show people start saying AMC instead of Aimee than we really really mail, but they still do say any sometimes, but now I mean I take that as a compliment. I think that the first thing I definitely God no, you get into these HBO had sports and they had you know. Let's face it. Hbo was really built on real sex. By the way, not PETE. You know you, you could always get that titillation like oh, this is real, People have exactly like really well having sex is warm. I know you're swingers. Oh they look like
That's not what I want peace in the world. I actually think that reality tv, we await a sort of get out of that to get the best version of that that this casting these really really was starting with survivor. Maybe that you'd get these really really attractive people and me, can't really learn lines that can't really act a lot of times these people, but you could put them in a situation real until they get real exactly and also that in your getting like that, whatever. That is that we love to see about them, and that was not the case on real success and I guess I feel like this is not every one of these things was now. Every time needs like that's interesting, and I gonna want to do that.
Just put a pacifying capacity. This, though, here oh yeah, we like to swing and you're like you do. What about the other people are they're, not gonna. Do it we like to swing authority, to hear what some else ever put a barbecue pitting the middle vets, no, the yeah yeah. I mean, I think it did it. That was the intention. I think that they had from business reason they had maximized. You know the the the growth of the company and that they really original programming was away to start attracting advertisers and get attention, and they made one pilot I don't think they even knew what had happened. You know they made HBO made. No eleven twelve networks made thirty forty. Sometimes you know talking about hundreds of millions of dollars being into this pilot process and they made one Mason will see if we try it, you know and all of a sudden we ve had an audience on the channel. Well, so what
when it coincided with a lot of technological stuff, when I'm like right away, it was the first place I worked. I couldn't tell people the number was of the channel and it was just to become this interface that, whether even if it wasn't tv based ranking else like that where people could like search for the show right- and that was like a big- position for the audience that I'll think people realize it was a big transition to go from. Like oh you're on HIV, There was one HBO you're on HBO you're on Channel seven or you're on what is it to fifty four, like two fifty three on some systems and so be a western at exactly exactly does have that kind of anything were now people don't even keep track of that they just now like you know, they got their basic cable, the package and then there's like nine hundred Veo DE channels, and then they get to HBO.
Well, so I started watching the site. I went back and watched the first season when the second see rub for the second season started and was immediately blunt. Like holy shit, I mean, I think, part of it. Was you go in again, not knowing what aims he wasn't there? time, three american movie classics and then seeing this show that not only does gorgeous but but so. Well, written and and and and then the next time I saw him like. I have a totally different way Oh, my god, you show me that it's fucking amazing, like I did you line on the first time now and say it was like hey, it's really good and then the second time you hadn't see, I was honest. I've I've been caught with that. I'm like a really nice to meet you, I'm a big fan of then I'll. Send you, like. I met that guy. Haven't seen in my life would have gushed, where your waited you're waiting for someone to be like a really. What's your favorite episode, the one where you will overcome this, the funding but to show its very complimentary. That's that's very nice thing to say, but it is a thing for this.
In particular, were so peculiar that I could really tell if people had seen it, because it's really, for whatever reason, other very, very different and still is very different than other things I do still donor with what genre is? I don't know a lot of things about it, but I look at at night. I feel, like you know, what's up Everybody, but I think that it was especially that time so incredibly different and I praise them still AMC for taking a risk to do something different and that there's that was their business strategy in a lot of the show in the first few years. The business stories about AMC in Lyons Gate and them sort of dealing with it and how to deal with things you mean because it may not. We did the show blow up as a show, but also I mean you could see how in a couple of seasons. How much like Don Draper, aesthetic headed had
made it our culture and so weird and whether it be a while the actually know what we're looking skinny too. That was entering not happening before. Like oh seven, the best thing is, I had, I always figured I always said like we will know that shows the successive next following someone is walking down Santa Monica Boulevard, dresses Joan that was my only I was like that will measure the success, but there is a certain point where your start, its it's coming back to you and you're like what's going on and I went into Brooks Brothers take to get a suit and somehow came out what I did and dumb. I have all my kids with all my boys with me, and they were like that. That's that's nine times out of ten, where they ask you what your did it, where you do what you? What? What is it that you do? An item many goes, you know when I had. He shook my hand. It goes out to thank you before that show came on. I dont think that I've worked here, for eleven years I never had a guy under thirty coming by attacking the deplorable if it is not actually like who's gonna catch.
Friday, all that sort of stuff, but there is also this you know I don't know I mean I obviously I'm sure people know this, but there there was a subtle comedic undertone of the first season, which was pregnant women, smoking and young people drink. Like every time you see Cheese coherent, and there was something there was just something inherently funny about what about about capturing that that's lights, of what the culture with India was sort of blissful ignorance about the exact there's. A line in one of the early episodes where Francine his Betty's pregnant friend there at the Durban Party and she's like having her fourth cocktails. Yes, I dont know what it is. I m so thirsty you like. Well, you know. Maybe I shouldn't have had that. Fifth, Menchu lip it also appears that I mean there's a sort of I mean I don't want to do too much look, how smart we are or anything that weird thing to me as there's a lot of stuff. That was really true that we were capturing about the way
these were the people would sort of argue about like people smoking I, depending on their age or you know, seat belts and car carriers and kid. You know all this sort of stuff, that's part of our culture. Now you look back on it near it's a few winkie ones, but I basically try to make not the show try to make the show now we get things. I think the one that I hear the most about is in there. Can season they go in a picnic and they get up and they throw all their. They just leave all their trash that it was actually something I was raised with than it was hard to explain to people. You know that it's just the way it was as in, and it was hard to even explained to the actors. Like don't look back just leave the trash there. The world is a big place. So what so? What we would just three stuff out the way I mean. I can't even explain it you, I dont, remember my gun
My father was a little bit more. I would not say eco consciousness. He drove a Buick Electra to twenty five, which is a giant car, but he did have a bag, those which ass when would put the trash and then he would emptied out, but everyone, and he would be mad at you first throwing stuff out, but I mean to for literally literally, had like throw a sofa on the side of the road I got to get it. Was it a culture of giving we're a culture of ignorance or just like a culture of of denial, not looking Like now yachts find someone I'll get it. I actually think that people didn't see it. I think it's when these things like when you move and you put the pig paintings against the wall, pictures against along the boxes, and then you live there for two years. You don't see it. People just didn't see how much garbage there was when I, when I When we try to recreate street scenes alot. The amount of trash we have to put on a in New York is cleaner than I can't even explanatory watch a movie from the from the decayed part of New York, like from the midst
Evan DS, Lite got the seven absurd french connection, in that era, and you will just see like rotting you'll see graffiti on things that is like so thick, you can't even tell what they are. You will see just trash. Up everywhere, and this is a lot of its before garbage bag. So it's like pails and I just think it was a. I think it simulated all at once is what happened. I think it was going for, while in in ignorance, that's a big place and then accumulated all at once and I will send them was like. Why does it have to be this way? And of course they know the crying Indian was like a was with an ad. That was a big, a big, Member of the course areas that I was sad the can like right. It is fear that Ironies Coty, that sort of like a big moment where they but part of what just to do when I started the show, is that all these things started in the early sixties right when the show started this sort of consciousness about it, and I think in nineteen sixty
or maybe a little bit before or after that, Rachel Carson read the silent spring, which was the first sort of Eco book, wasn't just celebrating nature of saying that we had destroyed everything and then we're poisoning the water and it became as you got into the seventies. It became an ecology The green movement, whatever you know now, we have now it's big business, which I think is what saved us part of the reason. The native Americans crime, because we took all spoken land has dented that he had many areas. Goddammit gonna highways is what you're doing he's actually crying about the fact that there is a highly and I waited with a bunch of funds driving highest ranking was unobstructed view of the landscape, but why So what was it about AMC coming up? The sopranos, I would imagine you could probably pretty much d, probably had some options, I I think I would have had some options. I never went that far I definitely my agents who told me that I would have some some options as they do. I
wanted did the madmen pilot script was something that I had written that had got me my job on the sopranos. I wanted to make the show and the entire time us. The sopranos? I try to get HBO interested in it through David Chase and there was no I dont even know when they read it or didn't, and this is not just criticism- myths, Sicily, I never had that job haven't a fixed up, but they didn't and so I just kept pushing in pushing in pushing it, and nobody else really want to do it and I M C Christine Wayne and Am- and you know, and also material, get sort of poison to certain the longer it's a round like everybody reads, it and scripts flowed Maria, and I mean it was a period peace at anything. It was like losing its relevance in any way, but when it got, my job on the sopranos alot of people read it and I had a lot of meetings and they would say things to me like this is a great piece of writing, which was very complimentary. They got mean for the meeting.
What do you really want to do? We're never gonna make the show gravity. We have you watch tv whatever, and so M, C expressing trust and it wasn't like a bidding warrant or anything. In fact, they made the pilot by themselves The way it usually works in tv is that the channel the studio to paralysis and may couldn't get anyone to do it, so they paid for it themselves than afterwards got lions gate to which is a big risk and landscape then came in and bought the show. I think it was, I think it I actually think it worked out. It worked out for the best, but I'm I'm having a difficult time picturing and on each bio, because on each bio you wouldn't really have any content boundaries and I think what I might wonder about that that is obviously there would be. There would be nudity and you'd see like, but you know, I assume that I wouldn't have any content boundaries when I wrote it, I did think it was going to be on HBO and I found that immediately that it was really helpful.
And as the sixties, you have gone progressed in the show. I have pushed a little bit more with language in things like us. It's part of the story- but I always like I mean I don't know shooting, succeeds and and and the Greek we all of the things that are. I liked the moment before the moment after dramatically, and we have pushed it a little bit and there are certain things that were very. Very I mean you know. Basic cable has certain but AMC actually has more stringent rules and then effects. So we are too mature, not tv fourteen. So The language is controlled, you can't say no to Jesus Christ. Unless Jesus Christ is actually there you can see Jesus? You can say Christ, red and there's more things. Can go into that. They send an email with a bunch of words that we could use for words that we couldn't mucus. What are they the only ones it turned out by the way, but it was it's what you expect it would be was pre pretty clear was like a fuck. It wasn't shit, it was like fuck,
can't the end word, and I think there is one other sex related. But if they weren't the only words we started hearing about them all the time, but in the end I kind of found that working around all of that it it was ache, there is plenty of swearing going on bananas guys at all. Then the military, but there wasn't as much swearing in social situations, especially in the workplace, and so I felt that this sort of like artificiality of it like help me challenged me too, to write in it Now people are saying fuck, you know each other all the time in a rally in different ways, and so but Peter, say, fuck, you in the pilot to dawn, and we just dipped it. Well yeah, because you definitely Youtube if we want to be able to use words that are indicative of the time and not you know and of course, of course, they're challenges like yeah, but audiences, our contemporary
even though this is a period when their challenges is that they actually have regulations and standards and practices about can be said and what can be said and you try and adhere to them, the specifics of which are often basing, and you know at a certain point, you know we're like You can show someone smoking a joint, but they can't inhale it, and then they ve got breaking bad on the other channel. You know we're there actually cooking math on that site and I was like any knowing they were using me against Vince for Saxon and Vince against me for drugs in Europe thing. We're like we're. Gonna have to find a kind of medium in here. That is realistic. We will not. You know overdo it We will suggest things and I think most of what happens because the x is very important in the show, and it's a big part is retailing, Danzig, carnal guy, and I liked the sort of employee sure of it- and I know that you can watch it with kids and if they don't fall asleep, they will have no idea. What's going on is is here is he is he a textbook narcissist? Is that his problem Tanya?
No, no, it's it. Sir. I dont know how to analyze what it is. I think at this point enough. Experts have told me what they think is wrong with him he's. What you call a very successful person and dumb, and I think he probably suffers from detachment attachment disorder. Which is not nurses embodies more of a narcissist. Dawn, is a is a person who actually observing humanity. A little bed has very low self esteem meditates with with with Saxon with alcohol and and medication when it shook hands on it, and I think his functioning is he's at ease and empathic person who s feelings for other people, but he's also kind of Mr Theurer. Mystified by attacks
in itself or you're right. He couldn't possibly be in our success because he really cared for the woman whose husband identity that he took over. He I mean a narcissism is like a very complicated work from a visit to now. Now it just means egotism, but when no it's Betty note, like no empathy for anyone to rising the baddies thing is like Betty, is so filled with feelings that to her Look at narcissism is like her thing is. Is that no one is as good as her and she's always got these mutations effect behaviour and she dwells on it and she's. So little bit of a border personality to get more specific, but you know when when you're, when you're writing characters I dont really judge them short. You can't know, I I m the edges. Don't question their behaviour even down to what's good and bad? I try to make it situational and I think that that's part of the problem and you have to help that- is that our our behaviour is situational and you have to help in the writing help just
why you have, I feel like you're always dropping clues for here's here are possible explanations, why these people are the way that they are. I think there's a cause and effect thank you. Carry your Europe problems around you and I think that a lot of the things that we see as their like bad behaviour are symptoms. Right, not not. The diseases This was deaf, and this is also a period of time where it was even other some? There is some therapy there is a little bit affair premature, but it was a time when people didn't talk about that. Something may well be ended. In mended ran, did not talk about there's a huge of psychoanalysis and in the fifties fur for Americans, its bigger here than almost anywhere in the world. Freud was like. I don't like what they're doing there with what I wanted to do. He didn't as you know, when he when he visited America, he was like there's not what I meant. It was oh in style in the end up in the fifties into the sixties, and then it became a huge part of culture, but it was dont said it was not like to talk about yourself and for men specially, like you, don't see the word depressed.
We didn't use the word depressed in the show. Is people didn't use it and especially I'm depressed, they would just say in depressed. Depression was like an economic term, maybe like blue or in EL. The emotional. The order wronged enough, not draw the kid. The emotional complexity for men is is like unless you're you know a writer. It's just not that's not addressed, and that's why, I think not being on HBO and having those constraints to help me construct something that was a little bit more subtle. Let me ask Oh, really, annoying question, which is: do you think that do you think that their share? of dawn and tony soprano that cut from the same cloth, but obviously because Tony was in a different. He was in a different cultural, pier that he was able to start trying to deal with the kind of weird you know, anxiety, depression, emptiness that he felt, I think it is in
missing for someone have psychological problem. Tony has like panic, Guenaud attacks in town. Had a couple panic attacks. I don't know I mean any comparison between those two characters is like completely flattering to me. They were acts, created around the same, not created, but I I had not seeing the sopranos when I started writing the pilot, and then I saw it was like well dawns like anybody, doesn't kill people, that's how I buy idolizing his arm and he works cigarette account so I you know Tony is probably has a little bit more self pity a system, modern person and Tony is so much more powerful than dawn, I mean I always loved this dichotomy sopranos. This is what held the whole show for me together. You know before I worked there, which is at this guy. Could kill anybody while sleep when anybody wanna do you know all these different things and got home. He had actually no power right and, I think, dawn
is more removed. I mean when we were kids when it when we, when I was selling the pilot they kept saying to me, were worse, his mealthy who's going to talk to and those like the entire spend talk anybody right these guys. Are there not his wife into its entails white where who is parents were gave? It's just not part. They just sort of sucked it up and live with it, but there is a psychic cost and I think that, as you start, right a character. You know now, ninety two hours, you start look for reasons and trying to construct. Do you know that the substance of who they are, I discovered a lot of that. I just use to go with the behaviour What I thought he would do and there. He sort of basically based on an american character, type from literature, and you know and from reality. I'd read these biographies of Like SAM Walton than Leah Coca, and a lot of people would shaped the Twentyth century and they had these like. Rural poverty backgrounds earthly. I took his place urban poverty that they had just completely
store this shameful in poverty is very shameful for for the people in it that you just don't get over it and they sort of light about who they were and then got there, and maybe they would get to the point where they would talk about up where they weren't when their kids, but and how they were self made, but they would read those Horatio Alger books and be affected by them, but they are not Horatio out your characters. They got a lot darker pass to them and I just felt dawn. I had this experience and a job where there was a guy who work there with us. You kept talking about Harvard and Finally- and this is this is before the internet was- sk quite so readily available. It was there but nobody really not to use it or had the time to sign on and some one found out. The sky had not gone to Harvard and there was like a big sort of casual showdown between a couple. People were somebody sorted, drop dead and he
really react to you like sort of blushed and he's like. I know you know, I'm no of that. I ever said I did go, which was not true. We talked about all the time and then finally, the everyone just when nobody gave shit and I was like this is America. Does I mean good him for knowing that dropping. That name would be taken. Now. He lit in fear I guess that'd be cod, but it didn't matter in the end and that was kind of a lesson for me about how we are that success. That kind of doesn't matter if you fit the foreman Don looks like that person he's aspire to become that guy that he read magazines he's good looking, so that helped him, but he really is a constructed person and you know just to get back the psychology thing. There's this incredible. Case study written about Marilyn Monroe. When I was reading it, it felt the most like the personality of dawn, Draper, of anything that I really radio.
Just the difference between Norman Gene and just the will. Anyone ever really know me now I ve, invented this person, do than anyone out there? I do at a certain point when they get there. They want to be known, they want to be loved, but they can't really get that close at the same time. They don't want to be known absolutely liked. You want people to know because it so it so it must be really scary to think that everyone loves us other identity, exactly and also the idea of it. You know I find that we place so much alpha steam and other things, but how powerful to place or self esteem into a completely other being. That is room like censuring. You say that you feel at ease, remove because it's almost like it's almost like an actor being able to take on a character, but not Those traits are in I've somewhere. I have had this and I mean I liked to put roles for actors that I think are within the first pillar The realm of their experience, you know, like people putting on accents and I've sort of you get a kind of a vibe about. Precisely the longer you work with them and try right for that. But you know I had a
I had someone, you know in an audition ice. It can you just use more of yourself and with someone known for a long time and he said Matt like the reason. I'm an actress. I don't know what that right. It's like an incredible skill to have that mutability at the same time, there's. Maybe there's a lack of substance that the rest of us says it would. I know for writers and there's plenty of personality for writers, but there is definitely a lot of observation going on a lot of imitative behaviour. A lot of you know just. Seeing how other people behave when their natural and you. What you see is a lot of contradictions, alot of like self interest, a lot of new things that that most comedy comes from. You know, like you know what I hate. I hate people drink so much gimme, another beer like something that simple. You will hear that all the time. I remember talking about being on a sit com and saying that, Some was saying that this joke was a cliche and it was a joke like that,
like I want another beer and they know I hate people drink in the guys like to having his fit drink and some Watson. He said I I have this on my phone. I have recorded this and it's a conversation with his his agent. He said the agency, something like I was talking to earn swords and nega. This morning I was saying people who name drop our asshole whenever it woke up your life. I was a glaring you now you can't our with that it would have been evidence, related, Evans, yeah, I'm I'm kind of That is the idea that as characters tony soprano Anden Draper both have Seemingly what you know every man tree would be. They got all the money and they can fuck everybody. They want our full. A vague and Tony can kill. People can kill people, but he can't kill everybody. He can't kill everybody, but he can kill a lot of people there was it a realization, as the show went on you know, David was really great about this when, when Bobby back spoiler alert, but when winter, his brother in law, we got it.
His way, you're like an in bed, him during the monopoly game like he can't kill his brother why are you in earnest? just that's not not possible, but these guys all these things that you think that they're trying to fill this whole with an and there still incredibly on like this, and they still. I know you don't want it to be. I know I was thought that about big love I was like watching I said I guess this is supposed to suggest that a man sort married to five different women is a negative, be idle. I don't want, like I guess, a that statement. Sort of like this. These there's there's a negative it all wanted to be a moral statement of like hey guess what you can't have it all, but I think the realize Tony? It is a bit of a that's anyway and on I start to downside thing that makes them that gets them to the place where they can do so. Much is because they are so in credit, that is unsatisfied thing that makes them that gets them to the place where they can do so. Much.
They are so incredibly unsatisfied it because they are lacking in so many other qualities that they just push forward. Will yet- and I don't think it's I mean all the things that they have- I dont think those are neutral things it. Doesn't you know that the money in the secular, but I was mystify when the show came on that he was such a that people want to be like him. I mean we kept so They wanted to have the things that he has they don't. I don't think they don't think that he's like that in public. I wanted to have the things that he has they don't I don't think they don't think anyone wants to be like did like, because it's basically he there is this like unfeelable vote, feels, even though he never feels stable fully and is constantly trying his constantly. Certainly with identify with that. I think it's actually comfort to say, oh that guy. It looks like that and has all that and has all that, and he still feels that way. I think a lot of the audience that watches the show feels that we will not only that, but I think they also like feeling that
a lot of the audience and watches the show feels that we will not only that, but I think they also like feeling that that, in perfect right and any has a perfect life and a per ino perfect some sort of a family right, but it, but that people watching the kind of makes them feel like nobody's perfect, like that, I think he's. One of them is the most fucked up character on the show, and the guy and Elsie seems perfectly that I think he's one of them is the most booked up character on the show and the guy and Elsie seems perfect areas feel good a year. There is disappearing already complex for the audience. It's been. It's been interesting to me to learn all of these think. As I approach it. Often the inside I'm telling a story: there's not a lot of philosophy in it right work with a bunch of very talented writers too I create a story that is intertwined the United alone. It is their motivations, four things and that problems are super small right. There, more than I did or why can't? I has a particular dramatic. The dramatic story, but it still the confrontations are in a tiny scale. You know that the climax
critically dramatic story, but it's still, the confrontations are in it any scale- you know that the climax of the last season at the great moment as he comes home and he missed going for Thanksgiving with his family, so with states that familiar to people that don't involve, you know, I gotta kill somebody by five o clock or I'm gonna get murdered or whatever, which not the people that don't involve. You know I gotta kill somebody by five o clock or I'm gonna get murdered or whatever which nothing like this kind of stories. But when the stakes are like that, I started. You know I was mystified by you know I'm not seeing Betty Drapers a great mother, but you know I start having my He's about people were very hard on that he Draper and I was like she is being treated very badly by her husband. It's she's really devoted wife and she's faithful and she is raising his kids and he is not a good husband right and no one ever took her and he's not a great dead by the way you can do so, and I was it was like when I wonder if she was less attractive if they would feel
Dad by the way- and I so and I was it was like when I wonder if she was less attractive, if they would feel sorry for her, I mean I always wondered what it wasn't now. We ve had ninety two episodes to sort of explore that, but there is, whatever else it is- and I try and I just try not to think about it and approach it from the other side. I want to tell you a story: it's not the style of every story, because you don't know, what's going to happen, from the other side and to tell you a story, it's not over that sometimes it means being may be made to feel a little foolish. If you don't see something coming and for me I, like I love. That is what I love about, spread spread out. You know you're, like. Oh my god. Of course that's what happened. It was inevitable, but and for me I, like I love that. Will there also planet. You know you're like oh, my god. Of course that's what happened was inevitable, but I never saw that coming will. There are also there also subconscious mechano yeah, like oh, your brain and connected expressing things that you probably don't realize an pressing it's when they all come, squeezing something out.
There is a lot of stuff. There is a lot of stuff like that where you're like. I cannot believe this was obviously on my mind what you can you think of there is a lot of stuff. There is a lot of stuff like that where you're like. I cannot believe this was obviously on my mind. Can you think of any. Mostly embarrassing. You know I I can tell you that you know. Just from last season alone, I didn't know that diamond and marriage was over. I didn't no, I thought. Well, you know they got long distance situation they are married and he's being faithful and he's being sober, and yet he lied to her about not having a job is going to hang in there and- and I didn't know that it was going is badly, even after that, after the threesome and finally, when the writers was like, you know they had like elected someone to. Let me know that it was over Now, as I had been well, you don't answer he could I take it, you know. Look. Some people are raised by people in America. I had a go on forever, but that it had exhausted its its you know. Lifespan was, you, know,
I didn't know that that you know I don't know, there's a there's a their stuff. That's on my mind, sometimes about it. The cool thing is is that you can take an idea that you can't put into words and put it in and even though there is a lot of conversation and people writing about it, that's the thing. That's the most satisfying when you talk about your subconscious, is that you'll? Do we ve done episodes that are about a feeling? And I dont know that people people who were in watching it in cereal, unlike what? How is advancing the story for the season they may not grasp on to it, but then after it passes it sticks with you. When you go back and look at it, you should have seen hey Don and Sylvia locked in a hotel room together is about a man whose powerless about a married woman, who's being ignored by her husband and she's the fantasy of living in a harem and he's having the fantasy of having complete control over another person and, at a certain point she says,
when a fair anymore? I had a dream that that that and I realized I was ashamed of cheating on my husband and it's over and Don says, please. You know and you're like I think what I'm saying is John, could take her or leave her until she said no right is was not like a. We know calculated thing. It was just like. What's the next step, what does he need right now? What does she know right now and then you're in and you get the next episode and he is obsessed with her singing at let go yeah as its anchors. She said now. She said no to, and now it's not now it's that he's not familiar with it.
Territory is ninety unreal, so it activates it must activate all that all the stuff. That's really down deep of rival of self esteem, I'm not good enough. What did I like? We did the next episode when they all took speed, and you saw that he had been interested in a way that he lost his virginity. Do a woman who looked exactly like her? That's something that's embarrassing by the way, my casting people s one in the world knows that there is a kind of woman. That dawn quote likes a type, and I did not know that, but I have cast at this point like a leathern of and they're all different flavors of the same kind of woman and Betty is not one of them All the other ones are very these actress
like a long line, even Kara bono is, it was doktor phase, unnatural brunette. They all have a sort of quality. I think I cast by voice, but you know, what's he will get a Don draper type. The casting carry Adina said to me at one point: it like Season Forum like what does that mean by casting all different kinds of actresses and very proud of that fact that there are different ages? and you know different backgrounds, different ethnicities, you know how could you say Bobby bear it and do you know and Suzanne the teacher are like the same type and it turns out that they heard it does it? Do you feel any scares me That's right, you feel any more than she does. It changed the way. Your approach, the show emotionally once the show becomes a hit, and everyone knows about it, you're getting more and there seemed to be more eyes on it. Did you feel like I'll fuck? I really better focus, or is it just like our present about that? I'm there absorbed it I'm actually kind of observing it. Now that it's
now that, like on me, I am sure that, with Don I guess I always felt pressure every episode in every season. Like What am I gonna: do I'm out of stuff? What is the next day in this guy's life, and when I knew after that, after we signed a contract that I would have thirty six more episodes. It was freeing, but it was also kind of like I'm. These like on my knees to the audio. Some way it may not seem that way. I know that people think that, like oh you're denying as this and it's a slow burn and you're playing with us, and I am always trying to please them in some way. I definitely feel felt I felt the pressure from the beginning, even when no one was watching it. I really always felt like I dont want one I don't want to be embarrassed by it. I always sort of took everything down to the audience that I could that I could
really get a response from? I really care what my wife thought, what my writers thought and what my actors thought and that, like I really didn't wanna be that's. The pressure is like we're. Coming back four seasons, six yeah everybody's glad to be back to work. But like. Are we weakened and is this the season where it's gonna like go to Hell unlike lost my mind, her and the great thing is, sort of commit to repeating yourself. I would We sort of mentally say, like you, get it asked by Rapporteur, like Whaley next season hanging to raise the bar. Whatever I was like sort of. I don't think that way probably has of terror. Instead of going up a notch, what you would receive that I will just go over here, I'm just going to a new place. It won't be measured by that
you know, maybe you don't like it as much as the story the season before, but it's a totally different story, and I'm not being measured by anything set for this is the next phase in their life and what's been interesting, is to get closer to dawn and to actually keep track of the progress, because we never forget what's happened, so you get at the end of season sex and dawn after being caught. By his daughter. Having an affair, I mean it's a real low point. I was trying to tell the story of nineteen sixty eight, but did and dont Don had a bad year. He really all these things were talking about it's his like his impulses, everything that we'd seen shades of was turned up a notch and We have this moment of reconciliation with his daughter and you like hasn't changed. You know, is it getting older? Should I acknowledge that you know you take it. Risk in season for went on got divorced. I kind of like had this big strong
like. Am I going to say to the onset he's an alcoholic half the front of the show is seeing him drink with impunity in right, Dr Drunk, and do all this thing. You know like Miss behave and all sudden you're, seeing Don drunkard than ever yup, unlike sleeping with two women in the same night that he does another names and stealing an idea and sleeping with secretary and all these like, really really bad self destructive behaviour I hope I don't take the fun out of the show, but let's face it because country keeper of well, and if you are, if you are far, if you're following cause and effect, you know I'm sure that happened to a lot. What happens to people all the time, but I mean particularly in that period. Like everyone do drugs. Everyone like everything. I never would ve everyone fuck everyone right. You know that at a certain point, like all those checks that they were riding like, that's gonna, start to take it all over and over the years, especially in older ion. Yes, I mean that's the thing
Are you acknowledge that the guy's moving on this life? Has he learned anything right? And you know I am only a little bit older than dawn and it's mostly does it took seven years to get the show on the air, I'm always the same ages dawn when I wrote the pilot and ice Look at it, and I know you hate to think of yourself ass, a statistic or something, but the the passages of his life are pretty much the way it goes in when he right after he turned, for I mean everyone would ever had a second marriage came up to me. Anyone who came up to me. I should say that anyone who had had a second marriage who came up to me would be like. Oh my god, that was my second wife. Well? That was it. I really. I just want to be with someone who saw me the way ahead, to be seen and she's. Probably for me and it didn't solve the problem. But you know I recognized her and I recognise the the idea. As with which he wanted to that relationship? So you see
start. Looking at the passages in your life, you need at a certain point. Were you know you all the sudden your childhood is living with you all the time or like? Why am I picking up my childhood all the time I met someone who dwells on that lives with it and then a kind of I put it to bed, but I used four dawn and so do the writers and writers of all different ages on the show which really helps, but I think that part of the the The funding of the show is because it so many steps removed its period, peace, its third person. It's you know, Don Draper ain't, my dog behind her, do I mean it? You no one looks at Essen thinks I'm that that's me and I get to sort of with all of these character: assertive, invest, the gate. All the things that are on my mind, it's been, it's been a gift to the show I mean, that's that's where the show comes from his whatever is on my mind,
Get me now gets to be in the show. I try to focus it into a story and it it does have the subconscious thing rear, like. Ah that's what that is funny weed because we're just talking to grant Morrison couple days are really really but not like he's. Is a an award winning comic book writer, nobody s, labour, not he said that he said the exact same thing is like well when I'm writing Batman. If I'm dealing with like the death of my father, like that comes from like that, comes out Absalom and you and you really, you understand that the you know that the best writers tend to put humanity into that. Like there's some piece of themselves and that's how you that's it you kind of identified. I think that that's that it set in tangible thing that when you're watching it, I say this to him too- is just like if you're reading his go, there's something it feels authentic and I dont know why, but it just feels authentic and its because there it's like this is these are real things that it is. We can best practice was the lesson of the sopranos. You know people another time, but I wrote that pilot
the roman sopranos when on the air, it got me my job on the sopranos, a good two and a half years later than I wrote at the sopranos for food. And a half years and was rewritten thoroughly the entire time right going through these characters in these stories, and then we made the pilot, and then I wrote. The second episode and in that time, I realise that things that were, on my mind that do you know executives frequently say, are two specific war, the things it spoke two people of only worse specific to me, and I don't think it's just good writers. I think it's I don't even know how you get anything done if you're not using your own thing, it's the. What do you have to say about it? You know my wife is great at descriptions, and I'm saying it's all about this feelings that you have one you know. Say something like schadenfreude out, which is this great german word with the good happens to another person right makes you upset
Anna or something bad happened, stood on the eurozone. Is you get excited about it? and she says yeah so. But what are you saying about it? You can't just like presented to us and that's that that's the challenge. Is like okay, so I've got this environment reckon recreate it. You know. We need an entire season. There was all about success and we just did this happen the first half of the season where money is big on the show, which is a big on a lot in a lot of entertainment, but you know it's a big part of our lives. You know what we need, what we don't need: material objects whatever, but just did the season with that was about dawn like sucking it up and working his way up in his own company working his way back up in his own company and the entire and and making things right with Peggy and making things right with his daughter to some degree in and kind of doing the right thing in
and unless selfish more sober way, the whole tension of the season. The thing that that is keeping you on your edge of your seat? Is you just can't believe it's gonna walk out of you just think Wednesday gonna fuck it up once again at once. It was a secret plan, Wednesday gonna, just like you, know, whip it out and start killing people Euro and that to me is, like you know, exploring exploring the tiny things. You know we didn't an episode called Maiden form, which was that this In the second season that was all about how other people see you and the sort of like which you can capture on film. You know, because you can do pv shudder and things like that, and there was people playing with their own image, and it ended with Don looking in the mirror and just like, and his daughter talking to him in him. Not a mirror. Look literally not look himself in the mirror, because his these soap such a liar right and an damn, you know,
like a small private moment. I don't think that sounds like getting sound, so action packed. But you know the show has been a gift to the over to explore things like that. In its like. I said it's not for everybody, but I'm proud of the fact that it has without any contrivance or effort, maintained its weirdness, because that's what we all want to do. You know and the actors of always on board with it. They love it. They love the. They love the tension of waiting for the phone to ring. You know well because everyone's character is, I mean everyone's character has a lot of dimension because they're all you know to somebody either sort of playing off that the idea that was contemporary for the time of you know and say no end to some degree today to other people love to share everything about everything now but yeah, but but but the idea that you also wonder: what's underneath it exactly and it so it's exploring all of the here's how they are to each other publicly in this environment.
And I had a little home and then I seize on Facebook, for people write things that are so personal ok, you're. Writing it, your broadcasting it what's what's underneath what's the weird shit? That's underneath that oh right right, yeah As you know there, there is visiting another? There is as idea now that I think, where we have. Two people need to be valid. It's all about validation, insarov they'll, give you a little bit of something that will they will you know you'll get attention about, nation in some way, and I think that if they get that small piece of validation for for that now it is. It somehow retroactively validates all the other bullshit unrevealing artist. Just get this one piece validated that'll take care of me for no laughing islands is goes back. The superiority thing because you have to really admit that you're in that validation state, which really embarrassing if it is- and I think that so much of like just let's take a concept like loneliness, which a lot of my work at this point has in it with something that,
not anomaly that I experience on you know it's a mud singers, like a lack of gratitude. I have formed of children, have a wonderful life, but it is part of the human experience. There are people who don't want to knowledge its existence, because it's too much for the shore and vague you know like Don may start drinking, do not feel that horrible feeling, but I'm ok, curious because I approached the show like well. You know we all feel this and since as we like, I don't Finally, like really maybe they do? Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know well admit it almost as a matter of everyone feels that way as long as it's an authentic feeling that you have, I guess that's all that matters, but you never think that your mom is nicer to your sister than you, No, we all get along, and I like what you must be the favourite new like no, my mom doesn't have any favorites and it was like. I I think I can. Even
We have this conversation with you, because I can then there's nothing to write about. Well, also, I think there's something about there's something about. Show that even in the opening credit sequence, where it's it's strictly for that time, where are the sudden? You know tat television and adds in my just the just the nature of the business that they work in, that people are being and its way worse today, but people's brains are being constantly inundated with image and data and things that they have to process over and over and over again and everyone. All idealized. It's all idealized. Everyone has an identity crisis like everyone has a weird identity, crisis verses. Oh these ads are an idealized version of who I should be here, is that we are having people. Here's the weird thing that you bring this up, because this period right Now- and I just noticed this- is the most like that
it is in that it is so you cannot look at advertising and not feel bad about yourself I have not always a good strategy for every image to be a perfect person for you to, like you know, have to read about like how you, if your woman, like you, you don't have a gap between your thighs or whatever. It is That's not always a great sales technique and part of what happened in the late sixties in the quota will create a revolution is that there was a submersive verse element to advertising, it was an idealized and there were more real people on tv and sometimes to the point of grotesques and where's. The beef is probably the end of it, but the beginning of it. Like that's spicy meatball, you start seeing ethnic people. You start seeing like a jewish sense of humor. You start saying these things that we had not had completely not been part of it, and we talked about this on the show that dad what the pipe and a convertible that we laugh at the leave it to Beaver family. We are constantly being inundated with that image right now, of course, at its most well, but more than I dont know. If that people understand
at the did the photoshopped you know super sexual ized mom died. You know it the fitness, the the the idealized family, even if its multicultural it is all so far from the reality that we live in, that we live in state of kind of self hatred will not, and it's not a great way to sell show, is not the best way, the other, the other dark side of it. But I must do wrong because they keep doing the other. The other dark side of it is it is, it is, is key its companies, knowing obviously knowing people are scared and insecure and anxious in depressed and say, and basically in a passive ways like creating a problem that doesn't really this thing going, here's the problem, but we have the cure for this or that salesmanship, I'm I'm I'm actually. No. I didn't want to say no that, but I'm not going to criticise that. I actually think that's. Ok, I think you're smart
to create a problem and who have a solution where there are probably either a manager in the entertainment business or her far. You are a good salesperson. What bothers me is the idea of like there's a sales pitch, that I've tried to say. The dawn is above it's kind of what the pilots about which is european, crap and dumb. I used to feel that way, but I have this product, as opposed to this product, makes me feel like the person I wanna be right and both of those are good sale, sex, niecks and dawn is aspirational, and most of the other stuff is negative. You'd we talk about it, you know with like there are. There are there's a deodorant that strategy that is like.
I feel confident I feel strong. I feel clean, that's what our product is uniquely suited forest to make you feel confident and there's the other one is like God. I smell horror, what am I gonna do about it and those those two things I mean it's it's it's you know weaken. The funny thing is: is the advertising business was really in a crisis when we started the show just sickly, you know just business wise. They the internet, a come along. I didn't know what to do with it. You know than the tea comes along. They don't even know what to do. How they reach people and they have rebounded in a way that it has to do with our tolerance for it. Also They have rebounded in a way where we have a higher tolerance for advertising than ever before. And yes, we used to read the newspaper in there be ads sandwiched in between them, but They go right on top of it and no one has said I won't leave this room. I want
I this no one has said anything about it. We are seeing your seeing more advertising by most statistician, but we're seeing more advertising by the day than ever in the history of human. Behavior and it's a lot of noise and a lot of people selling something- and I think, a lot of councils itself out and it becomes an incredible irritant which is part of the strategy on some level, but getting your message embedded in some way. Palatable the people, it's like harder and harder and harder to do so. There's just like this technological bombardment, you know, look I mean just the sides of our buildings. It hasn't been like that, since, like the thirty people expect it, I think that kind of like it. I think they like the noise and the color and the activities ragged and stimulating it, was interesting to see a movie like her and see this future world where they were all these screens and everything and it was. It- was deeply absent of advertising and a kind of
made it a little lonelier. Actually, when you look at me, not the blade runner is like the future. You want to live in, but, like that's, that's where we are right now, right, every eight billion screens. You know constantly you get in lack of attacks in New York and near like how do I turn this? oh no, I actually turned it or is it I can't get someone to disregard the great actually, but I I I really I think, one of the most beautifully simple things about the show is at the very thing that makes, amazing at his job is actually his biggest character flaw, which is his ability to create an idealized version of something out of out of something that is shit. I think that he won't won't actually make a shitty product. Eddie. That's not what he's trying to do, but I think that he, I was always interested the creative process, and I don't even know if this really
works in advertising. If it's just an hour fictitious advertising Roque, that's rigged, I mean I've. Read I write the clients Anna. You know. I write whether the campaigns success. My whole thing was always like with the writers like, let's right, a pitch that even if you dont know, advertising is going to persuade you who knows if it's really gonna work, right and really two sets to persuade the clients, and when I always liked was that it he would take his personal life and use that as the problem and that his searches kind of emotional, because he's an outsider and his flaw of like not having a past are not having a codified back. And allows him to sort of filter it it into something else and a lot of times the most negative qualities end up in these. But in the end I think big He wants to be something else, he's always making the products part of one year,
she's, basically he's. Basically a walking advertisement he's a walking advertise the person that he wants to beat the guy who sells and the Cadillac you know when we had I m we lance rider come in- and I had had one of these like magic moments and the weight of work were Higher seem came to me and I walked in and I'd like dictated it right away in my sister Rotterdam. I like. We were like tat to happen. I just handed to the person who was writing the draft and, unlike put the sin, this is on selling the Cadillac. Take the Cadillac salesman, I said to him: he's got this cheesy sales pitch is like what you you know. I have explained this to your walking about in a every day and near like that? So gruesome, like Tom loves, the sea appreciates it. Nothing works better than to tell some. I that you are going to be the Then you always want to be. If you use this product right- and you know I have to say almost all of the sales pitch is come back down to that. Where he's like it's where
sort of thing like well. Who do you want to be, and he knows it wants to, there is one there's one line: there's one specific line in the show that at that always stuck with me and I saw it and it was years ago when I saw it. I actually I I I think was alone and even said out loud. All fuck. It is which is. It was Just something so powerful about this. The right after Peggy has the baby, right and she's in the hospital and done We said something to me like you will be, it will shock you yeah how quickly we'll get over this or how much offered economically active forget how much you will forget this. I just I don't know, I just didn't. No one had ever seen never occurred to me before and then you if you see so much about him and then he's basically mentoring her in this weird fucked up bright and it's not a aid strategy. No, but he doesn't survivors strategy is but put it at your strategy. Ideas so frequently get will shock you and you like, can I use article o, my god? What am I
capable of well, you know what do you once in a while, some one woman, up to you especially view you know, you're a famous and I am sure that you ve seen people that you haven't seen for years. They come up until you a story about yourself and you are just overwhelmed with embarrassment, as has ever happened to you, oh yeah, yeah and you're, like I that wasn't me like. I do Block that how because you're going to survive and when we ve all done terrible things, I mean that's the shows, based on the fact that I believe that road, you know if you're above it good for you, but I happen to believe that if nothing else things even if they're, not the terrible that we feel terrible about and you do blocked them out, the funny thing is is at the time I thought He is doing her a favor. He is giving her a gift to get over this. And move on, but it is a terrible strategy for life right. I guess it never goes away it.
Go away, and we can see that you now were now eighty episodes from that episode and you can see like he eat. You forget it, but it rears itself, all over the place it doesnt Saint vague, is the case with the exact. That's only a task that put it that way. As absolutely trail does it make. It A little slower I kept saying to people like we write these scenes like whenever Peggy still, you know, and I've had this confirmed from people gone through it, but. It gets number dollar dollar anyone who lost a loved one or whenever gets dollar and dollar. But it's like you know he sees a child. It's never nothing to her. Of course. Never she went through that pregnancy in denial. Deliver that baby put it up for adoption, had a psychotic break basically and then got back to light it, never never went away and she's
an older and maybe we're starting to see. You know you have to watch the rest, the show and see what else there is for her, but I didn't really It is much I mean. That's embarrassing to I just thought caddies to enter a huge favour, because I admire survivors. I really do. I probably have my own survival skills and a lot of it has to do with tonight. And forgetting in escaping into the entertainment, writing and making up my own version of things like a writer does, but you Know- we do the Kennedy assassination there, this moment in the room? Were everybody knew like Dad's gonna go to work and his wife left him like during? After the assassination is wifey set, I don't love you for anyone into work and peggy? Was there too and we're like these guys are survivors, they're gonna? He can comfort other people, but he's gonna wake up tomorrow and just like, but none of his mouth, and he is but all this stuff. You know how I now you know like whenever you go through tragedy or whenever you go through any kind of a lie and you can match it down.
For the time being, but sooner or later you know it starts. Bubble up in other ways and inhumane and even realise that the two are connected and then at a certain and at some point you know, but there are people who live there, I know there were, those people are Sociopath- that Latin America, with very great positions of power. They really are better able to divorce them so flying link. Will you know? I think we depend on them too. You know they have this study about like putting people in the army and like there's like fifty percent of the population. It's like huge will crack up under combat situations. And then there's like fifteen force and another like what's a twenty five percent, that will have trouble but will do as told and might have scars afterwards and then there's like something like it goes all the way down to like ten percent of the population. That will do it, and probably
should only be in the military because they really gets with it all, and here we You know you look at the war, its part of the story, the show drafting, regular people and putting regular people in that situation of having their like, threatened and being away from home and being under fire and being forced to all of you, yeah then you like take him home afterwards assaulted and make all shared it as a culture, but it is to you it wasn't. It was even a concept there. You know in a way that they like develop that term very, very late in the game it's like from its while, while after we're too so I do believe, then maybe it is says he I look. You talked to a surgeon not a surgeon. I don't know how you could deal with having somebody's life in your hand, all the time, all the time, nothing like a year and listen, listen. I think I could get someone with a knife. We talked about this with Arnold,
and Don sort of asked them about it needs like. I don't think about it. I don't have that's why people pay me. I don't want to say it, but I dont think about. Of course I don't want to lose. Them at its horrible and you want you want to beat it. You want to win, and you want to use your skill and you want to cure in you wanna he'll, but I can't have it on my mind. I could not very well. I mean your brain is essentially a closed circuit, so it it. You know I think, there's a observation of emotional energy, where it's the energy is? Is it can't be destroyed in transmute into other things that you may be dont connects to that. But I dont, but I think it it may come out somewhere else. All I know is that you can get up and perform in front of thirty thousand people,
and in a sport stadium and for most people they would have a hard time, and you know that's why we now have a desperate need for attention due to the level of attention go and pay day there that they are taken. They are taking the chickens way out, and you know I remember meaning someone, because I did stand up in college and I mean I was physically like not capable of doing it. I would sort of survive at every time and I imagine you get used to it. Like I bombed once and then I was like how my everyone do this again and I a guy who had no problems with that. He was not that funny. That was not his skill and in fact he eventually got people right, jokes for him like an old fashioned comedian, any great and I will not say who it is, but his skill was that he was not afraid of that. He was energized and focused by it, and I thought like what a gift you know I'm energized and focused by deadlines in o death. It's it's there. There will be no different and taking his backed associate.
I do think that there are people who can really put stuff out of their mind. I'm not saying it doesn't go anywhere. I must say that they don't have a psychic scar, but I you know what it's funny. It was a great comfort to me. I was reading a book, this hilarious book about The s s and resolving some light reading some light reading and am I was on vacation, Amelia Hawaii. When I read about the the S s sure, and they were talking about the amount of booze that they gave these guys, and I was totally comforted by the fact that they had to be drunk oh, that it wasn't just, and it wasn't just like a bunch of people who could give could shoot that were that in shooting they began their liking. They don't see them as people, there's all kinds of rationalizations for how you get people to do at war. Atrocities group- this is what it was about, serve like how how to get a group to do this. Are they naturally back or what you know their different than you and me in some way. Would you be behave that way? This is one of the big mysteries like. Could you turn anybody into one of these guys and you can't, but when
saw how much booze that they gave them. It was a comfort to me that they needed to drink and needed to not that they knew that. That was what they were doing was. It was a bad feeling that they want to get rid of right Do you feel now that were now that the shows done the last, the lasting for so there next year, So I am still editing yourself already done, but I am starting to talk about the past tense. It's interesting will. That is how it just happened like a couple weeks ago. Do you the woman you you haven't even really processed it. Yet I would imagine I suppose that I won't. Truly process it when the last episode errors, but there the ending production
and seeing everybody sort of whittle away has been has been a massive massive change. I you know I don't ever ever process it. I mean one of the great things about making this movie is that I got to you know, go out and do it and do something different and do a script that I cared about as much as mad men and finally get it done and that it was like in us patch and you start to thinking about the future and what else you gonna do, but at the same time like this, is I wrote the pilot fourteen years ago. It's a third of my took seven. This is anybody there, who is aspiring writer, here's this here's, the happy you know it has. Bending here's, the story- can be paid yeah, yeah, seven years between writing the pilot and it going on the air. And now I've been on the air for seven years to fort fourteen years of fourteen years, the third, my life, the others less. So you better
like the shit you're writing, because the GPS, an area is you're stuck with it. Well, that's the thing to is that people tell you. You know people, you know that you have this you're so busy and you are you're the hands in so many places in Europe develop Missus pepper like enjoying yourself and your kind of like feel guilty about how much work you're doing it. Your complaining. How tired you weren't how busy you aren't have set eyes on you, but you are that's the part that I processed. I we'll never get over just from the change from being even working, sopranos from being a struggling writer who hear some things that writers. Well, then, if I with, I would finish your script and people had to read it within seven or of me turning it in Vegas. I would finish it around you in the morning and I would come in it too, and I would expect notes a people, in your work right away and anybody who has been working on scripts at home knows you give it-
people and who knows, if I mean I personally, have like neglected to read so many people's. That's now I'm gonna get a red, everybody says, but just getting it read instantly and then the things that I was writing after the pilot and a couple of episodes into the series I didn't have to sell those scripts anymore, they were going to get shot. They had to. Because the train is running and is terrifying as it is that I need another script in eight days. Everything that I was writing is got shot, an you learn so much like people in a room working with different directors like how many times do the scene, you got to make a different thing every single time. You can make a difference. If you really try. What can you do to make it? Why is it feel for me or don't? Do it again though I mean the luxury of being a writer in in in show business.
Writing scenes and knowing that everything's gonna get shot its use well and then to have an audience. That's the other thing that people in a watch it really matter how many of them there are. You literally don't know if you're ever going to be heard sure. So all of that which you know forget about like working with a great cast and being surrounded by talented writers and hiring all who have never done anything and sing them become great. You know, writers, directors, whatever that's like the mean. That's the part that what's your ego is life. Currently I was right. I've found em, my wound are: have two people?
on my writing stamp who were who I met? I was, I taught one semester you see they were both students and, like you know, they're both great writers and the kind of war when it Madame which no one needs to know, but they they haven, T it's. Why hired him but to see their careers having seen first time director is getting me known awards and things like that, and also working with like people who were deep into their careers or you know it's just the the the creator satisfaction of taking this unit of like. Sometimes seven hundred people are involved in making the show in a season forgetting about how many background and all the actors in everything that we hire and turning it into this product and
like being in every, and you know you know me- I mean a notorious for this, but a kind of invade involved in every phase. I don't do everything, but I am a witness to everything I see everything they gets done, a check up on it. It's that support. I processes. You know it's gone from the feeling, and I think I talked events Gilligan about this. What I was saying that the the tree- mission that I've made is the feeling from feeling like I've lost something to feeling like I made something that is like almost almost two superstitious to say something like that. Is that sound egotistical, or not at all that? I'm? U shaded cycle, logically bury help of always been proud of it. But it's kind of like it's. It's like it and I were not not together into like you know. Seven years is longer than college for most people and jam. You know to have the same job for seven years and in show business
very unusual area, and then you know one day you you turn it off. They turn out the lights and we're all gonna see each other again, but will never be together, and I think that wasn't I was pretty those pretty emotional year Actually you know when you have caused. I've had a lot of jobs in the past and when you're in it you're like all this is going to last for a while and then all the son it's over like where did those several years doesn't use just over? I have people, you know the characters of aged as much as the actors. They now we ve got a few more years on the show that in real life, but you know marriages horses, children being born, you know homes being bought. You know people winning awards, people trying new professions- people you know just like, all this stuff happening within the sphere of this experience, and
I don't know I'm saying all out- I'm like, oh, my god, I'm drinking it, but it's no use now I got now. I can't get is over and you don't have the power to can't take that away. Do no, are you do you do? I do you think so? Oh yeah, ok, now, urgent. Sorry, you happy just as Rapporteur wrapping up are you? Are you happy with do you? Do you feel I mean obvious your by word assume that you would be happy with the show, but do you do you feel a sense of completeness where lands in the end, even though we don't know what that is yet. I think you can tell from talking to me that I'm, like you know I reached two points: told you I want audience to love, it is no matter what I did exactly what I want to do to good, We have no idea how they will be perceived or what it will mean to people, or you know I took it exactly where I want to go and that Media group, unless they're lying to me of mine, we'll you know my my wife and that family, my writing room in that family and the actor. As you know, the crew,
people, everyone seems to be thought thought that it was the way to do it. You know, who knows you know, God is the worst thing about episodic television is ending things is part of their skill set. It is most nuth, it's the newest part of it. It s really is every by name representatives does not resolve right? You can kill character and so forth, but it's gotta come back the next week. It's gotta propel itself even that that the season the now he has to propel you into the next season. So here you are this where you live in a man that was that's a life, that's a life moment will that's the best you can, I think that's a bit. You can do is just make the thing that you are happy with in the in the a dot m, and then your circle is happy with, because if you are every seas You said earlier, like what we gonna raise them. They like then you're chasing audience expectations, and then that's too and the story you get out of control to result oriented, as opposed to. I think I think people it also. I don't think you can kiss sustain it now.
Just like it becomes a differently becomes like. Could you can only go so exactly that's? Why it's one point I would say to be processed oriented Gore than than than result oriented be a dream to be like that. I'm not saying amount result oriented. I would like to talk that way as if I were evolved, but I did feel like. Had this ending for so long that I was one of the three on the show that I didn't try and run away from here and what I'm one as if it errors in it bombs, if there was any come on say like I never liked it, I didn't want to tell you you are so intuitive here. You can't control that you, like you, didn't have to. U deceptive dino, stick to what you feel good. I've been I've, been I've been good about that, I'm extremely susceptible to other people's opinions before, Members are there. I always still end up doing what I'm gonna do that's good at it. Stubbornness or something I don't know. If you didn't have that you wouldn't be here.
It is true that, as of skill, so less, if you want to anything about the movie before we yeah it's called, are you hear it opens on August twenty? Second, it has Owen Wilson's out now, if an access and Amy Polar in it and it's very different than madmen, My intention was kind of to write about around my mind that are not in the show, obviously, and to sort of make a bit of a throw back a bit of seventies movie, I love five easy pieces. I love the last detail. I love these films and do a sort of a little bit grimy her little less glamorous version of of a story about what holds people together. Zack. When play best friends, you don't really know how that their friends and one of them needs to get Andrew on the other. We need to get off them, it's sort of that
If you mean you ve, it has a lot of humour in it and obviously there really funny guys, but these sort of maybe it's my own like deficient effectiveness in genre. The story is really told to recreate real life and, like those films did, and during that period and you hopefully get a sense with a with Yemen. Has a real plot has a real story, but you will get a sense of these guys. Think that their living in a movie, they think they're, too stoner buddies, as the story goes on. You really like own. Oh wait a minute. He is drug problem that he's a fucking, crazy and Amy is fantastic, Ebeneezer dream. Actually you know to work with people that funny and just he them. I think comedians. A lot of times are more capable of giving a motion because a kind of comes At the last moment it can be maudlin, sometimes that they just do. I recognise them as people. In fact, everyone I cast on Madman is is is pretty funny.
And I think people know that now that they play kind of serious, but they all know when they're making jokes and there was something great about. Oh inexact together playing these extremes and Owen is like guileless he's easygoing he's like like a ball he's irresponsible, but he is taking care of that hit his his friend Zack. Who is you know a blow hard anais grows his own. We need, and his like got this philosophy about, like Guenaud Anti Technology, and to society, and you start to realize like well, he owns character is taking care of him, but when Zack inherits all this money, you you basically have a new problem exists doesn't know why the family fuck up is getting off to a them together, elegans act together, we are going to figure out what to do with the money and acts. Ideas are not exact, rooted in reality. So For me, it was a way to talk about love. That are going on right now to sort of talk about the ugly
the world that we're talking out right now to talk about all of the alienating factors in modern times. Eighty and how amazing it is to actually have someone. Line that I had in the movie that I, Sir built the movie around his own service, questioned about his friendship with Zack Edna. Why he's friends with them- and he says that's thing about friendship- is that you he had on on tv, no one. No one eats alone. People go with each other, the doktor, but most people are alone and the thing about friendship is where or than love, because there's nothing in it for anybody, and I kind of wanted to build my way to that. And I think you see it in the movie and there there is a lot of emotion pretty funny. You know I never never em. It's my sense of humour, so I like they they they they they really. They really play real people and their characters. Comments which places over the course of the story, which is great and Amy.
New York with someone like that, we talk about a certain point. We know she's such a finally to personal Sheila planes acts sister because they they are when you see the next each other they could be rather in society and their kind of like they have a and she's she's. The movie, she's kind of the killjoy, but everyone like the things I write. Everybody has a reason for doing what they do, but we had a conversation is earned. Point we're like how far do you want turn up the funny like you can make the so it's not real if you want to- and she just found a way to keep her in we'll zone. You know she's she's, very fine, actress, uneasy
movies, and so are you here August twenty seconds. Then madman comes back next year in the spring, we it's a top secret. You haven't got a pretty shirts April. Ok, let's topsecret from me on VS sing. Sometime around certain point. I must say its April enough where they're gonna be like stop telling people say privilege. May I'm like well? What are you can? Let me ok, but it's really good to see you and it is too late. We re joy caught a talk, any was as it so flattering the things you say about the show. You know what I mean the show I fucking love the show and I'm I'm I'm excited but sat at the same time give its night. You know when you have when you have a ship you, performer relationship with a show, your like that shows always there and they re not there anymore. I feel that way about it. You know about other shows. I think you know what may come back. Units over and you will see what emotions were in our life that we put in the show, because when you asked me that question on thinking about as this episodes that no one scene and that's what it is, it's like, I
used and re its carbonic acid active our emotional diary. At the same time, the matter that I know you'll I have ever. I have such a low tolerance for alcohol, but I'm an incredible enable thanks guys. You too much goes delivery to everyone now, leaving noticed com
Transcript generated on 2020-07-10.