Walking, those packets number six hundred and fifty four. Let's go to the Nerdist Community Cork borer, dear yeah. We got Katie well as you guys know, the two, the guys from broken lizard in the podcast on our network lizard, that's terrible today, fences today they launched for super troopers. Two right now, right now literally they're like their slogan is. The time is now fantastic. I think they're really raise like two million bucks yeah. So if you guys want to donate and help out and see a super troopers to go to a super troopers to movie and common. That's the number two good! yeah there, and the Things are awesome too, like you have to go to the premier or Jesus Jones. Now, ok, well, there's still tied up with that add more things,

They can raise money for a movie if you're not going to get someone to Jesus Jones. Now, anyway, I'm going to be introduced, Jesus Jones to January jones- oh my god find out there. The siblings Jesus H, Joan always put that scene in the movie where Jesus in January, what Jesus Jones is in a person's the band name. I thought it was a guy who I was like it does the generic ally situation, where I've been confused for a long time, though, if there's not a generic like person, my main jk is the in our heart. Ok, it's one guy. They morph together to who's wearing a hat. What's your community cork board and check out there's a gentleman by the name of Tommy Williamson but yeah? There is and he's been a special effects guy for twenty five years now good job. He is retiring from that industry soon and he's starting a website. Calledbrickner dot com, that's already up and he is retiring to focus on using all of his special affect skills to do movies using exclusively legos awesome, that's the way to retire, if you're going to retire. What is his name again? His name is Tommy

Tommy Williamson Good Job Man Useradd. Do they got you know like someone retires of like? Oh, I guess I'm not going to do anything now, but this could be a whole lot of amazing. I went through his website and it's super inspiring to when I'm his age. Like this is what I hope I have this much like drive to keep doing stuff going today July. Soon, if you quit smoking, you son of a bich, I'm writing this episode. Is amazing, Randy James Randi, who I've watched my entire life he's been making stuff since before I was born. But weird, though, he's been watching you too, he could that's his ultimate magic. He tricked me yeah that, like he made me think that he was watching me but uh. Randy magician skeptic all around

man who were of of fake sorcery. I found it after this podcast. My favorite quote of his, which is that, is that when I die, I want my and beat myself be cremated my ashes to be blown in the eyes of your yellow. Yet so his movie is called an honest liar and its documentary about truth and deception and the life of James Randi and who also kind of dealt with through the deception and its own private. The the dog SIRI, is fucking fantastic uhm. You should see it Adam Savages, independent tell or Bill Nye Davie Pena, it's a good. It's a really could sell it and it's really interesting to watch all the stuff and when he has clear cut evidence that someone is duping people that people will still find a way go. No, but this time he's not dupe, you know like it is. I don't know how he didn't well, he doesn't really. He must have ripped all his own hair out like that. So I think that's what happened. I think that's what happened to him, but he is uh

we lovely guy and was a phenomenal gassed and very open and very cool and true to his true to his of being honest like he was be, he was he was. I was honored to meet the guy and I don't know Just there's some people where you you know they just bury inside you. You know, like they're, just part of your molecule, as you watch them a lot when you were when you were growing up and it's kind of crazy that we get to do this thing where we get to meet those people. There's there's back There are sixty four with the amazing Randi now entering Nerdist dot com.

It's happening, I think we're doing it. I got the yellow marker. It's matches your sweatshirt okay, when, when, It's very thought. It's a mentalism trick. He was just telling the stories about Johnny Carson. But yes, yes, Since I just got here, then you would be a Johnny Carson stories. Well then, I showed you John said to him. I we're just talking about the fact that he used to smoke all the way through the programs yeah. What year did that stop because he said to the end, but but oh yeah, he did it until the day left the air really well. I thought he had quit, don't know

the a cigarette down there, the proper number come out every break phone bone bone changes. Cigarette exhaust fan whole thing. Well, one of the sequences in the film you'll see him. I thought I saw them, and you will see if you watch carefully You'Ll- see him doing during this. Looking up with the monitor, see when it's wet just to me, but I want to point if he would go for the cigarette and do this she's, I gotta put it back in the holder and exhaust fan would pick it up. He go right back to the same poll, That is exactly that is dedication, yeah and the audience would be told when they were all seated at the very beginning before any came out on stage that fish courage will this. Looking during, but please don't pay any attention to it or make any comments. Alright, send the audience little surprised, you know, but then they would see it happening in WO

I mean the amount of power that that man wielded well. Yes, of course, that was a different time. Yes, of course, he was made and I understand that there's a book out there are going to Johnny. That is not too flattering, but they were picking you guys up on the microphones by the way. I'm sorry, of course, yeah. So yes, we have, we been rolling, don't lean closer. Yes, that's alright, but they apparently you're saying some pretty nasty stuff about Johnny and I never saw any of what they're describing at home you didn't see, although I I you know I I did want twenty three programs or something with him over the years and from the almost from the moment that she don't drop the thick right hi. I didn't see any of that internally at HANS Act after his hunters. Ritterman he's to call me at my office and we'd have interesting chat. He'd always start out by,

play apologizing. I don't want to take your time. How could my Johnny I'm real busy right now? What do you need that quickly quickly? Let me have it, but he would always apologize like that and then he he talked for three or four minutes to be sure, but I'm keeping you John it's ok. I've got the time. You know what do you wanna talk about just well? He was astonished the fact that he thought we'd wiped out Peter pop off the evangelist right it was during this phony stuff on tv. And we did for about forty eight hours or so because he changed it. There's ministry right. He stayed in the same place. We just change the sign on the ministry and the way it could be accessed, and he would say I just saw pop off on television again. And I'd, say God he's the unsinkable rubber duck? For how many times do we have to discuss it? So he'll always be there ill

because it always be someone who will believe and enough people to send him the money now. I don't know whether he still uses the same technique as we supposedly broke apart at the show yeah, which is by the way. So I did. I did see the movie it's fantastic and the whole the whole sort of runner, at least from what I gather- and you can tell me if this is not true, but it's how it did. But the whole movie is about deception. Essentially in in many forms, fill professionally and personally sources from many sir from many sources, and the willingness of people have to want to believe something need to believe to believe that that's the the verb there need to bleed 'cause. They really do need it, they don't just want it, they need and they get to depend on it and it it forms the basis for how they existed in their lives. I mean it's one of most,

and I remember this, I'm old enough to have seen you on a bunch of shows through like like some of the shows in the in the documentary Remember seeing a lot of those, and so what's really interesting to me He is how violent people will get when were like. Why do why? Do you think people are so aggressive? Twords a reasonable someone coming over the reason why aren't going well? This is what I regaler did, and these are the steps of people going like. How I'm very you like that. It gets so mad and you're saying no, I'm not saying that this is it possible, I'm just saying in this case face. It doesn't like these are. This seems to be the evidence and then have people, because they so badly, so much a part of their core belief system. Yes and there's the other class with people too. We in many cases we would accost in the audience who had been up on the stage during a faith healers recession, some

CNN, I large theater or the studio, and we see that they had not been healed on the stage as they purported you throw away their canes and what not and stagger Aust barely making it and a lady costume and say what you want healed of this stage. Well, it's because I didn't have enough faith to see they've been walking with two canes and telling you this sort of thing, and then they to walk away from it and then they turn and say, but I still believe right. They want it to be. You would be assured that they still believe that the reverend so and so out there on the stage, had the power and was talking directly with God, wanted him using scam that basically, no matter the, even if you fail, but the people still blame themselves because they didn't give enough money or should they didn't they didn't I have enough faith, I remember seeing a few I saw doctor many with you, maybe twenty or twenty five years ago, but but

then you're a little bit younger than yeah, but it had somebody just a little bit, but it had something to do with this remembering this, but did you did I thought you said you? Would you did terror readings in college and you started giving people the opposite of what the readings said and people would still find a connection. Point know that someone else that wasn't you I'll be ready. Hymen, ok, refresh rate My mother is a psych professor who's in the who's in the documentary as well yeah. Indeed, yes, he did readings, have exactly the opposite and it worked just as well, because people Now there is an example there of me appearing before our classroom in Florida.

Where I read out and I don't hurt me hi didn't appear on the for their two programs and one week and then the secular. First week the instructor came out to tell his classroom of a b forty five forty have students sitting in a small classroom say get to next week, we're going to have horoscopes Casper each and everyone of you here by a famous astrologer, and they will call for an he ask about the agency, so you give a then your date and if you and all the time of birth and the location, geographical location and had it strips of paper and they all were handed and next week, it gains. Randy will be here, and I was this is where I lived in Florida. It's a matter of fact and some of the red hood that I lived there and here hand out the horoscopes and then ask you your opinion of them and sure enough. When they came back the next week. I was there and I said to you good afternoon what nine had

they had their names on the individual envelopes, and I said now open up your envelopes and read the Horoscope, and then I want to do is score of I I think I said between zero and five zero, the dole likelihood whatsoever and just being correct and five being top right, and so I had to the money that you could see people I'm sitting there in front of the classroom looking down at these four rows, this feature, while Wow wow you're getting all excited insight. I said: ok, let's see votes by hands. Well, almost all of them were five right at the top. Some a few reform there were no threes, tunes ones or zeros now very satisfactory, in other words, thought. I said: ok now everybody hand yours to the person behind you and take the one from the person in front of it and the

at the end of the road come up and give it to the front. Well, ok, they all did that. He said now. I want you to read these and see what your react. To see whether that would fit. You see exactly the same. Article and it had things like. You have extravagant expectations, sometimes in situations that you don't really understand. Who does that not apply to you know you have had doubts about, your sexual identity from time to time, but you've managed to get around that. With your gay or straight duty that you agree with that and it went on and on like this and then I would throw in things like a since. The moon is in Virgo the moon was nowhere near Virgo. At that point, believe me, fur on the moon didn't know one another at that particular season of the year. I insist, Virgo was the moon is,

Virgo. What not this denotes that had? I gave some Henry. What is the freshmen have fast yeah? Can I see the covers it beautifully version of a why this this configuration of the planets and stars would decazes hadn't had no one bothered to look at. I have, of course they did and they were agreeing agree. There was one guy. And I think the second seat in the second row and there he said- but you haven't proven anything by this and- and I didn't quite expect that response, because it was very, very good proof that people will believe anything that they think they should believe that they have some acceptance of, or at least to some provision for the fact. It may be right.

Do you think they do? You think that people want to be deceived? Will just they just like they just get him. They need to be made that they need something supernatural, something magical so need an authority figure to say: hey you can suspend, All of your thought, energy, because it takes a lot, of energy and it's very scary to know that there isn't something very good at this. The other thing is to destroy d is extremely old and all the astrologers, but this is been going on for you generation after generation. As long as man has been alive. He has always looked up towards the Heaven to find out what that means it you mean certain physical things about the planets and stars on their configurations. It touch necessary, had animated do with him and his daughter her, lover or whatever, but they did they like to assume that there's got to be some cigarette,

actually, no, not at all. What do you think that for some people that some of the things actually they do manifest because they want to believe, Oh don't know they look for proof of it right so does just for. That makes some part of it true or not. You're still not true. It means that they have associated it sure that way. The generalities I just gave you already does ghetto what he said in the Horoscope. That was absolutely true. It's come true, but started him. Well, you you're sort of a proto. In the sense that good or bad it's good, it's good sort of so what times. Is that because you know hackers get hackers can to the general populace, have sort of a bad name So hackers are scary and they're trying to get all your personal information, but I think the majority of hackers are actually pretty cool and the internet exists, because people

or things down to rebuild them, but something that a hacker will do is they'll. You know, some sort of a security system and then go to the company. Go hey Just so you know I've got in there. No problem, you should probably be fat. Yeah ok and so in a sense Houdini was doing what you were doing a sort of like social hacking in away and going like here's how you do this. Don't let these people fool, you understood yeah, so, at what point did was it in for you too, and that this is a bit of a theme in the document or what what what was important to you to say, hey, I I need to show people that this just for entertainment. Only and then it's not, they shouldn't be throwing their money at people who were using basic, mentalism or or tricks. So what's your question, the question is at what point like what made you decide to start exposing happen very, very early, very, very early soon, as I became magician, as matter of fact, as I'm beer youth,

I was a mirror youth watch phone and I'm not so mirror but a youth service, and I must say that fellow called by play sailor stay? I was living by myself in Toronto, Canada, my family at all, moved after Montreal, but I, behind it Toronto 'cause. I was doing nightclub work and fairly successful at it and got only called by did Arthur rooming House where I was staying and my landlady came to me. She said there's a gentleman downstairs with wants to talk to you about a serious matter. I said ok I'll, go and see him went downstairs and ordinary looking gentleman, he said

schrani I've. I've seen you I've been to the club several times, and I see what you do and though you like to tell people that trickery. I know the difference between trickery and reality, and that's not trickery and I said to him really know it is I'm a magician and mentalist. I work on peoples minds to convince him to certain things, and I do it for entertainment for it. No, no, no mister right. I know the difference between reality and fooling people you're, not fooling people. So this is my proposition now I will pay you and I think at that point it was seventy five dollars a week. You know that was big money in Canada. To me at that time, because I was getting paid

the equivalent of about seventy five dollars a week at the clubs. A well yeah make the comparison is rather mind boggling. I would think you'd agree and I I perked up at hearing and of course- and he said all I wanted to do. If you take a racing form and look through the racing parameter something get your attention for any reason: the spelling of neighbor, the number or whatever just check that off and then turn to the next. Age 'cause. They had the horses all lifted. You see on the racing problem, such as when they were. Racing at church of what exactly? What time of the day? And I said yes and what he said- it won't work most of the time. I know that, but there will be functions that you will be able to pick up on. I know that and I started hanging with a stick,

no, but I do agree. It is trickery with peoples minds that mister Randy. I know the difference between ET separately and he argued with me. He knew that Israel. At that point I quit I quit the the conversation I just walked out on. It said sorry no deal and he yep after we eat pastured me he had come from the United States and he said in Toronto, because he She me there and that he was convinced that he knew- and maybe I didn't know that I really had the power. Is that astonishing, blue? It is on so that's. What really scared me scared, because I realized that maybe I was influencing people in

even though I said at the beginning and the end of every performance, what I'm doing is for purposes of entertainment. It's all good, clean fun and eccentric, and but apparently that didn't convince a lot of people. Well it I mean- and also I think, speaks to your character that you didn't take the seventy five bucks a week now I couldn't have done it and now now that that that I would be one of the evil ones and it's it would it never occurred to me before. Having watched a documentary was how is watching some of these guys that sort of that took those tricks and became like yeah, but, like you said that somehow at a certain point they realize like oh well, we don't have to just do this for entertainment. We could actually people will, money at us, if they think we have some type of but the fact that people fall for it, and not only that they didn't get feedback from the people that they've swindled and so

Many people over the years have called me or emailed me and said now. I don't give anymore money to Peter Popoff, because you showed that he was a total fake, but I give money to reverend so and so now he's doing exactly the same act in a different city. Different town has a beard or whatever they are determined to part with their money and with their their their faith and their secure, in all of these things they are determined to be fooled, lied to and cheated. Did you ever have any conversations with guys like pop off? Do you did you talk to them ever yes from time to time? It is happy. Well well are actually took me aside at one broad after that I was doing. He took me aside with address room, had into a secure room. He felt at it

and you want to make sure I Didn'T- have any recording devices DA, and he said you know, we should really give up this feuding thing and I said: wait: wait, wait as until you will decide to say these are tricks. I'm an entertainer and he shook his head and he said no. No, no. They already know that. I said no, They don't know that a you know very well that they believe you and I had counted a hundred and one hundred and thirty something or other episodes on tv that I I took days to accumulate where he says. In so many words, I don't do tricks and I don't know how to do tricks. What I do is real yeah and even in the documentary he says, because what I do is really loose, and he looks so anxious that says that

and I knew you know very well that perhaps France, somewhere in Hardin recess of this mind. I think there are a lot of dim recess is in there too. Maybe he does believe that some of the stuff he is done is real because the feedback he gets from so many people is oh, yes, after you left the studio, the spoon continued Ben DA well, I mean I guess I kind of not really knowing him where some of these guys, but if they, let's just let's just assume maybe there's what one might refer to as in narcissistic personality disorder there, maybe at some at some level. You know the deception that they've managed to convince himself like. Well. Maybe this started as one thing right now I, but now this is real and people believe it's real, and so I know it's really. You really think they still that that make the kind of thing hi. I have always said a man

who doesn't know how to play the violin does not pick up the violin and play Violin Concerto right he knows how to use a violin right so it's not very likely that he falls into this art and can automatically do it without practice. And having failed and failed and feel that's the way any art like this is developed and that's what they have to go through like Sylvia, around, for example, and Jz Knight Jason rated still with us, I'm told she'll be RON, I believe, is not with this any longer. Unless I've been misinformed, Silvia

and you very well, she had to know what she was doing, because her every word was based upon the reality that she had created for these people, and you know it is calculated. It is definitely calculated not that they worked out a formula for it. They just started to do it. 'cause I've got some very early tapes of Sylvia Browne, where she just boggles around, like you wouldn't believe, and but she should learn she learned along the way she fumbled and made mistakes and such on that learned what she could say and couldn't say and get away with it and did you feel like you? Have these sort of two separate careers sense where been been one cents, your mental listing, your escape artists in your do. You know your for your entertaining people but, on the other hand, you're also a crusader you know for for for reason and not not being taken in by well. People would come to me like the.

Gentlemen. Did who knocked on the door and wanted me to take the racing form then do some someone such that scared me that really scared me. I thought wow. Some people will actually believe this kind of thing, and I backed away from that. I was shocked by 'cause. I didn't realize at that point that many people were leaving that club, I'm sure at though some would say to me they would win. Wake me in check, but when you told her telephone number, that was the real thing. Wasn't it at I'd, say no, no, that's trickery to it impossible. They think it's impossible, but the fact that they had made application on a postcard to get each for this particular night 'cause. I was going to be in the club that gave me huge source of information, so there phone number on there. I could call them and find it, but you know I I'm doing a survey has set. I did that somebody trying to get- advance information about this very easily and they gave it up very easily one case,

Toronto, Canada when I was just working as a as a performer at Metalist. On stage I appeared before this huge audience in. I forgot the name of the hall, but it was a huge place inter uh

Canada and down at the waterfront are remembered and I walked out on stage instead. Do I don't think it? I pointed to a lady in the fourth row on the on the aisle, and I said the young lady, with the with the for and the color right. Yes, we do stand up, please. I get an impression that that you have something brokered roses, which is that mean, and she said no, I don't identify with that. I said, but it's a hundred hundred disco white disk, well yeah, it's a clock face and she straightened up. She said yes and I said clock face in it. The clock is broken, the hands are disconnected

and she said: oh yes, yes thanks! That's attached to a clock on my mantle piece in my living room and the date that the hands have the following month behind the glass, so we haven't had it fixed yet, and I said yes and what are the roses? You should all. My goodness should that's true. There are two roses: it could cost in a pattern from the maker- and I said yes, okay. Well, let's, let's start speak anymore about that. Hi may have more to, Tell you and hi winked at her from the stage, and this is a huge theater. I guess you didn't see the wink, but at the point is that afterwards she grabbed me and the hollow citation. How could you have no and this and then she was swept away by her friends with a huge crowd that was leaving the theater, and I never got back to her. But what had happened was I had sent. My friend turns Kingsley, Lawson

as a student at the university at Rado. I had sent him to do a fake tour of the neighborhood because she had written any given her address. I knew her seat number. I do she would be in the throw on the Isle, who, my god and I had gained this information from him 'cause. He sat in her living room and saw the clock with the two hands at the bottom of the dial, and he did little survey wrote it down and gave her a card and such which is totally fake and he walked out of the place he came gave that information to her. Now I never got to that lady. I never got to be able to tell her that, how I had done the thing because I saw she would obviously very strongly emotionally affected by that and do you feel like you, but feel, like you, had a responsibility to tell her to sort of break the spell wanted to. I wanted to get your average interest in warm water, and I tried to reach her after which, for some reason or other, I was never able to reach her. I don't know quite why

I mean there's there's that there is kind of an interesting region of danger with this type of thing, especially with the alpha project. Where ran he. Basically, some telling John he. Basically two young guys into this program with scientists to sort of that they were Parris psychologists and that you know the signed up for the purpose. I call you yes, it yeah, but these two that they were that they had psyche powers that they had psychic powers, but it was all trickery so at the end they could go so uh see you believed us and we beat your system manage tricks, but it really like it the way that they into their side of the stories that they felt really bad, because it it really messed people up emotionally because it essentially attacked their core belief. System and also you know like they obviously felt really stupid for falling for it yeah. But then the boys were very serious about

and I agreed, even though there is a date up ahead, my name the date, but we would expose the whole thing and we did it for Time magazine and on some television program. Another major and I think it NBC Program and it got Standish reactions from the audience. They look at one another. As I said, it's all fake dot. They were there the audience as self was. It was astonishing. The kids had confessed. It was all trickery and they explained some of the methods they reduced as a very simple they're, very simple, for example, that was the day when Polaroid cam at the very very beginning, could make a double exposure that was ruled out and eventually in the subsequent models of the Polaroid camera still camera. I'm talking about now and Holly did Michael did in one of the.

Experience. He wore a black shirt and he took a double exposure. Had a double picture taken of him by an associate associate of the lab and he dug in a picture of somebody else's face on the thing, and it looks like a spirit picture on the black shirt you see, and he could do that in those days and Scientists were fully them self, look what you've done Michael and Michael said: oh I didn't really. I didn't recognize that I didn't notice it. Of course she had noticed that he had done it you're, saying right, and even at that point I mean the the thing that I think that is so crazy about all this is that it doesn't matter how many times you seem to say to people. This is how is done yeah. It almost seems like more people come back after the yet no who we believe

even harder now: yeah yeah, yeah yeah. So is it frustrating to you that yeah that you haven't been able to convince more people, very, very frustrating and, as I said, Johnny Carson after his return would get me on the phone and see I just saw Peter Popoff. I guess I couldn't see it again to get through his head. Yeah they'll always believe. John, that 'cause they need Really they don't just want to believe they need to believe. Well, he was a magician to Johnny, oh yes and very accomplished. He never did it on the show which I wonder why? Well, I don't know he maybe it was a little uncertain himself, but he did some close up stuff that will, after he had he had all the masters of magic on his program. You over the years off all those years we had the best people from around the world would, do anything to appear on his program and they would be happy to sit down and teach him a different moves with the record for tickets. He was quite,

good at it and he used to show me some of the stuff in his little white corvette after their programs get all the smoke out of the car. Of course. First touch he must have had a tremendous amount. Check for you yeah, we got along fine, he got along fine yeah and I I I'm just gonna and lovely a great deal. I can tell you that this is strange. It's strange admission for me to make, but twice over the last year's. I have read something or seen something on my screen top date that would interest on, and I was trying to reach the phone and literally as doing right now start to reach across my body, telephone on my desk and then drawback. I think I was going to call John

I've. Had I've done the same thing, not that with Johnny, but in the old let's, but I have is the dishonesty and you think what am I doing Shin is dead. What doesn't it doesn't it does the capacity that the human brain has to fool one, so yeah it does that scare you that sort of scares me sometimes when you think you know when people for whatever function, brain chemistry are experiencing a different reality or they experiencing other of their perception. They're perceptionists, because they're they're there find is you know all In some way, it's kind of scary to think all we was what our brain tells us I mean is our brain, the ultimate deceiver for us yeah for each individual person. Yes- and it depends on your background too, you see it depends on your educational status and the actor here in which you were raised. I was raised. I was the first of three

children in my family, and I didn't receive the affection from my father. Let's put it that way that I I have an. I won't get all the details of that, but I didn't have a connection with my father and sort of made me a loner and I was out on my own from a very early age and that that that sort of background, I think and made me start to think for myself very much independently and I didn't believe it I used to this day, don't believe any of their religious nonsense that I hear all the time I am an atheist and I'm an atheist. I can't prove that there is no deity right and I don't think anyone can prove a negative of that sort, but I have looked for the and and I put that in quotation marks and for a dvd, and I am not find it convincing. Let's put it that way. Would you this was sort of a strange question, but would you have trained your question job

I take that as a I take that as a compliment is, if you could have had a a relationship with your family, but it would have meant that you might not have been as much of freethinker as you ended up becoming. Would you would you have to like? Do you ever ever kind of don't want to be really great to kinda to have like a pre, fab believe system, where I didn't really have to no. No, I I I appreciate my independence and that what I'm doing this very day as a matter of fact, no, I'm I'm glad the way it turned out hi. I'm I'm satisfied with it. It was painful, yeah it's very painful to be running counter to the stream and running stream, all the time you say, and not so much these days, nine, finding a lot of acceptance, and I'm very happy for that. But to

No, I wouldn't change it, wouldn't change it. A lot of stuff comes out in the documentary that and there's even a piece and there's even their even sections. The documentary ago, I don't this in and it's in and my girlfriend are watching. I'm like, oh, my God, director. What did he do to him he's just he says right there not to leave it at the end. It says Red gave us permission to put everything in yes. So what was the? What? How comfortable were you showing off this side of yourself that maybe the rest of the world wasn't as familiar with? Well, I was rather surprised by the confrontation I had with the producers at that moment, because the episode that's described, which we will not go into further had just occurred and it was due to me and I was trying to handle it and, as I say I think, you'll agree. It was a very heavy thing close have to accept and it

so fresh and new to me that I didn't quite know how to react to it and within hours. I called the producers and told them put it in, because I said to you the very beginning: warts and all this is going to be the truth and I had I had veered from that course to a certain degree, and you will understand what I mean by of course, and so I determined that it you, should go in there and it went in there and I'm very happy that it did was finally was coming out to the world with that did feel any different to you, or did you

like people already knew, or they didn't know, or it doesn't matter, I'm comfortable now or like what. What was that the trigger to the whole thing was seeing the Harvey Milk film right yeah with Sean Penn that that affected me- and I got thinking after that. Wow milk was a hero. They've got about a postage to haven't been I've not yet not yet I and I'm vying for it, but you have to be dead. I understand right and I'm not willing to go. They don't do that yet, not but Jenner. I will say that movie affected me greatly, because I realized that there was a very no

bull individual who was badly abused by the system and there's been so many other people like this hour. Alan Turing, for example. Of course, who is really the creator of the computer age right? Absolutely no argument and that what so ever and he was disrespected- and he was jailed- it was chemically castrated. Yes, we currently can treated well and he chose that rather than prison, and then he committed suicide and there are people like this. I want those things to and I I think we should all know about those things I have my heroes and and those are a couple of them right there yeah, and I think it's also. I think it's important when people like yourself that People already look up to go hey. This is who I am, and that's ok and you're. Ok, if you feel this way too, like it's really really important for people who were developed,

their identities, to know that it's not something to be ashamed of and that they should embrace it right away and the reaction I got after coming up with that on on my on my page on the internet wow, I thought I just sat back and say: well, let's see what happens now and I could hear the clashing of size out in the in the yard. You know in torchlight and that sort of thing. They were coming for every know. That did not happen, and I am enormously pleased with the reaction. All I got was products from people from every walk of life and said wow. That was the thing to do. Congratulations, wow that that I didn't really surprised me that much, but it pleased me enormously to see that I had been right in my estimation of what would probably happen, and I haven't regretted it for a moment. No, that's I mean it's someone

able to have lived essentially in two different ages. I mean I assume when you were young, I was like well, you can't really do you know like there are two different countries. I was born and raised in Canada right right and came to the United States as a teenager, late teenager, but I did and though the the two countries were were quite different from one another and it would be odds thinkable. The two have come out in those days. Hi everyone would walk away from you and that it take your your telephone number out of their books and what not and if not, come around and throw a rock through your windows. So it things have changed and in that respect, certainly for the better yeah yeah. But I can understand why, because I feel, like you know, a lot of the idea, we have about the way things work are formed when were younger. Yes, Anne can be uh. I think it's important to go back and sort of revisit your

believes in the way that you live. Your life every so often because you know things happen, things can change. Maybe you feel differently than you used to feel, but you kind of have this. This thing that's on autopilot in your head. We go yet it's not. Ok! That's not! Ok! That's not! Ok! In the certain point you go wait. Actually it's fun. And it's better yeah. Well, yes, I might go through a lot of people, my in the film and on the flyer that has been a huge experience for me yeah I had Davey and I, when possible, have attended to

showings of it and got a q and a afterwards and the reaction has been sold. Excellent, it's really been wonderful. Can I get people coverage? We love. We get people coming to us. What am I saying tears in their eyes and saying, essentially, you made a big change in my life. You cannot buy high. Is that right? That is something you can't plan on it. You can't buy. You can't set up a tall that that's the reward right there and I goal when I hear that and You can probably see me glow slightly acidic, because it's in our dark here and I swear- you could probably see it at my face lights up. I know that and I shed a tear to myself. Well, I think that's one of the things that so beautiful about the movies that. You know I went into it, just thinking that it was about. I mean this whole other personal I mean there. Are

foods that are exposed, I mean there are lies that are exposed for the truth in But I didn't realize how personal troops, actually would get to be exact and that's and who was a purveyor of the truth. It's it's still kind of interesting to see you in the situation of like yeah? The truth is in The truth is important. Sometimes it's really not that easy. You know like to sort of like it. It can be a hard path, but you have to do it anyway. I can tell you, after the Harvey Milk film, however, I had no problem with whichever I sat down at the keyboard. I wrote the little note that I put in there ending up with I'm gay yeah and then explaining it it. I did want to get into it in great detail at that moment, but did you

problem. Do that no problem whatsoever. It was just soon the water off a duck's benefit summaries to it. It it today and it was a it- was the right thing to do and I had said to the guys yeah oh well, the producers of the film I had said to hear works at all and in order that came from, but the works in all expression. What was that? That was all com, Oliver Cromwell had a very war. He faced, he spoke to was official portraitist who wondered about that and he simply told works at all, showing that showing the truth and the official portrait does show enormous ugly words I don't know where they are exaggerated, but nonetheless he

fortune already got so personal. Do you feel like that? A lot of people's dissatisfaction in their lives comes from the disparity between this image that they want to portray to the world and being warts and all where it's like. It's like, not being not accepting. I don't just mean sexuality, I mean anything. Yes, even the Evans. I use words like how do you have advice for people no matter what their lot in life is to help them better accept who they are and sort of deal with, with the words you're not perfect, get along with it right. I do the best you can, with your input connections, we all have imperfections. Of course we do some of them. We don't even realize, but let's get a grip on things and do the best you can. I will spike Lee fan. You see, do the right thing

now. I don't know whether it's quite came up with that. Originally, I hope that he did and I've liked his work down over the years. Yes do the right thing now deciding what the right thing is, of course is part of the problem, but I think Spike Lee has has done that in his career. Certainly- and I try to follow the Spike Lee philosophy. Do the right thing, the James Randi Joint? Is it I think it's. I think that sometimes imperfections actually are are the things that are most interesting about people rather than being liability, it's like no that's. This is a really cool thing that makes you unique that and who you are, and you should. You could use that that can be an issue, hey I, in favor of that philosophy hi, I agree

What is your a deep? What's your fear like what? What sort of fears do you have like? What would you say is your biggest you know? Is there anything that keeps you up at night well by diet by doctor, told me that my diet is very so it tastes good spit it out, but if it tastes like Kard, where you can have second and and and eighty six, I started the no no salt, no fat as best you can yeah and I've been trying to follow that occasionally error I have been seen with a salt shaker, very likely, applying little grains of I've it with salt sodium car in Nacl. Yes, yes, and I must say that I have beard from that slightly, but I do okay at eighty six, hey yeah, I'm walking, I got a walking stick here. I think thank you notice, it's pretty rare,

says it's a it's a silver skull. Yes, it is indeed and talk to the skull. I use this because if I ever have an altercation, I have to use this to defend myself yeah but I tell the officer just look for a man with a reverse skulled impression that will be the guy and at each stage of your life, have you have you? Have you made the transition comfortably or did you know like when you finally gave up doing escape work? Were you Like I crap, I can't I can't do that anymore, because it's too hard to my body or I think crisis, you know time to move on and do something else still know how Ok, I've had no problem with that. I still do the occasional escape act on stage if someone really presses me, like I say I shall I do it or not, and I always say yes, of course, because it comes for free. So I do it anyway So I I throw a little bit of

catering magic. Let's say into my lectures that I give, and I do them all over the world on my way to Finland, Charlie and ITALY is a matter of fact and I have the the the the the wonderful the blessing of being able to fall asleep in a jet and wake up at the weather in yes yeah. I bet it was great at best food. That's the only problem that taste like cardboard should be good for yeah. That's true too. A lot of plans. Very perceptive! Gentlemen. Yes, thank you. I have a bunch of friends who are friends admirers of yours and are constantly telling me about amazing meeting in LAS Vegas, all Provenza and add savage and yeah Penn and those guys like all you have to come. Do amazing, meaning it did. You know that I it's this- it's this huge collection of basically skeptics who get together to exchange It is true and entertaining- and you know,

You stand up. You should come to stand up at such a great audience and it's always every year. I always have another show in another city, so I haven't been able to make it yet a likely story. It's totally true. I would load low come. But what talks are your talks like when you go when you go to like what it? What do people come Acting and what are they ask? Well, I I have a prepared yeah. I chenery with subject headings on a piece of paper in front of me frankly, that I follow I have to do that in order to discipline myself. Otherwise, I'd go on talking for ever yeah because hey in the six years, I've gotten a lot of experiences together that I can tell people about, but I try to. I try to cover basic things that they need to know about and increasingly, for example, I am plugging against the the anti vacuous out there right who are causing as things like some.

A pox and measles to come back right simply because they've broken the cycle. We don't know about smallpox. The only smallpox vaccine on earth is locked up in a vault someplace in Switzerland right and we keep the because maybe they want to use it to find out. Or about it. We want to keep those little cubes in the deep freeze there in Switzerland. Please don't ask for it to be released. Just experimentally but measles, look at measles at an end. Well, For example, a bona fide these things are very dangerous now and there are probably personalities out there who are preaching the this. This causes a mental retardation and such the technical term I use from time to time for this far from Penn and teller. Yes, although they didn't originate it, you see

right so long story. It came from bulls here, but I won't get into the details. The point is that these people are farming society because they are convincing folks out there who go by their celebrity the fact that they appear in major motion pictures and such they should also advise them on medical matters exactly right exactly it did that sound and incredible, but some people will believe that he he made a movie all with any, must be okay, but he says must be true- I mean I, I can only imagine the frustration center of your brain when It's probably when you're saying to people like here am clearly equals c were like no like don't get, but it's right here. Here's video proof, I'm showing you proof of this.

Yeah no you're wrong like it's it. What is it like to be able to walk away from the traitors meeting today with a custom with a microphone and and like a camera, going and say that you weren't really healed? You still are walking on the canes. Well, yes, that's true, but I still believe yeah at that insistence. They can't be talked out of their delusions. They need them. They don't only want them. Remember that that's the the word that you use. They need these beliefs, these false beliefs that bolsters them. Somehow is it? Do you think it's because it's too so? to think well, where there's not really a reason that were here when die, that's it were gone and nothing else right. It is scary, yeah you're going stop you're going to die

What you leave behind you is: what's in the box saloon and films and videos and whatnot and- and there is a written record, should you've left behind in the impressions that you've made on people at, but to it. No, I don't I don't want to go to Heaven. I know the people think they are going there and they may be right. I just know that I'm not really I'm pretty comfortable with the idea of like, Well, if I die, I mean when I die and it's gone. It's over. I didn't know what it was like to not exist. For I was born. I assume it will probably be a very similar experiences, just I think your experience at all in order or or potentially notes, but as long as I can close my eyes, this is my personal outlet. I can close my eyes, Jake yeah. I think I did have an okay job, I'm not a great job. This journey, I could

better, but I had died at early age. Eighty six yeah, but I I always say when they ask you know age. I say eighty six going because I am an optimist for one of the yeah and if there Is any sex thing up there, I'm sort of appealing to it just very sliding there. Eighty six going on hundred, please one thing one thing: I've, never seen you do is raise your voice yell back at people like they'll get. Get in your face yeah. Even know older, and you just go look well, I'm just saying I don't. So how do you How do you manage to stay reasonable in that type of a situation? Good have good video have you ever just gotten up in someone's face and go no fuck. You

in so many words. No now I know I you have to know when to quit. You have to know that when you have to back away and- It was one answer that I have that really infuriates on it, because sometimes they'll send me a email to Several one thousand words and I go through them and and the screen boring, boring, boring, boring and at the another thing. I will send you an answer from James Randi. You may be right, that's and that infuriates them more than anything. Then I get them back, six pages longer outside. Some people that, or is it just, is so infuriated by that hey I've heard turtle when I press the send key on that, you may be right, what do you? What's what what legacy someday? You know it do you do you want to? How do you want

member you. What do you want to know what you want to leave behind? What? What do you hope people take away all? I hope that people recognize that there was a guy way back then, who live to the age of at least a hundred least hundreds of course, hi yeah keep that up. It'll happen, it bolsters soldiers. My hopes that this guy lived way back then, and he lived in two different. Trish and two different millenia, how exciting I'd, heard Eddie and he won a lot of people over and a lot of people were grateful for it. That's all so it's not. You know. We want people to remember James Ray the magician or the mentalist or or the or the skeptic or the guy who tried to shed. You know

the reality onto onto our culture. We don't refer to it as shedding, but that's ok, close enough for government feeling it retains act. Yes, the not any one, specific area that you hope people take away more than others. Well, just that it was warts and all one thing death, however comma, can be thank for that if you ever did say that by Terry. No, I just want to be remembered, as somebody had tried pretty hard and was taller every successful. Let's put it that way, I keep uh I'm about an inch away from joining the MAGIC castle. I'm not a magician myself, but I adore it and it's a place. I want to hang out all the time. It's a wonderful place is wonderful. Well, it's sort of

come home to me when I go in there. I just look for changes all the time. You know what have they changed, nothing on the bookcase, no, that's alright, and if you get a chance to visit their private library, I want to go in there. So yes, indeed, I think some of my book should there be, for example, if not all of them, if there aren't all of the line going to have a word with the magic, I know it's a wonderful place and the proprietors there have been. A generous with us and very very helpful in somebody- we're very grateful for the kurdish they have extended to us one of the one of our co producers, the the studio to show that we shoot here at the studio is Bellamy Blackstone, who is only one Blackstone, yes and first and, like you know your last names like as my family, okay, all right, yeah yeah, because her it her great grandfather, it

when you use. You tell the story about how you're wandering down the street you go into this theater and Blackstone is performed that flex on senior okay, that was the father of Blackstone Junior Harry Blackstone, Junior and the family, has as gone on and they've username text Joan as well the original name? I slipped my mind, but, oh goodness, I can't quite hit it with a french name, as matter of fact, but Harry Blackstone decided that it fitted on a marquee very well and he did, and it was all he had S funeral. No, I didn't know this. Terry Seger had a list and I can always get huge peal of laughter out of the MAGIC castle. If there's an audience there and I get to talk to them- and I do my imitation of them when he did the Astro Levitation out, that's the first time I saw at the cost you, know, theater on Queen Street, in Toronto, Canada, at the age of twelve, and I sat in the first balcony and he

gestured this young lady out of the stage and he apparently hypnotised her to soft music. She fell over under the arms of the assistance and she was laid on a couch and he stood back. He waved his hand and he said rice persists. Astra the music's tired of she rose in the air. I wish trance, I almost fell out of the balcony and the audience was silent. Who's a matinee on a Wednesday afternoon. She rose in the air, hello, six eight feet up and he gestured with his hand. If you stop at the Christian stopped, the term

to the audience. He said you see this young lady suspended in the air between Heaven and earth. She could remain. Should I wish in that position for one thousand years in a day, but in the interest of time and have your patience, I will return her watch for to the couch from which heroes only a moment ago, precious Azra this and had the music started. Again and again, I almost fell out of the balcony and she came back down to the couch if you

stirred she shook and he went over to her with a smile, helped her to wear a feat took bows and the curtains closed. I really left the theater. The movie started up at that point even care. I went around the back alley and I met Harry Blackstone Senior there with this color open because of those days, no air conditioning and serious remember, and he welcomed me with a handshake and took me back Steve and I walked among the props. I didn't know what I was looking at. I had never seen a magician. A magic show before in my life, took me to the dressing room. Sat me down. He showed me a simple little move, which perhaps, when we finish this recording, I believe in childhood. Yes,

it doesn't do well on ready. No, it's bad enough that audio plugins, but he showed me that, and I picked it up briefly well, he was quite pleased. Then he reached into the covered came out with a large poster, very large poster showing him levitating a camel and it's a famous poster, very famous Blackstone poster, and he autographed it to Randall. That was my first real name. I born name and sign. Harry Blackstone and he rolled it up, but a piece of string around it put it in my arm. I said goodbye and I went to the to the streetcar first fall to North Toronto,

and then on the bus, and I realized I'd late getting home. My parents will be crazy and I got off the bus and I ran to the house, went in through the front door and my parents were frantically we're going to call the police, because I hadn't shown up- and I said oh, but I saw Harry Blackstone had he paid this woman float into the air. I went to the casino theme here, and he gave me and I started. I had left the poster on the bus so someplace in Toronto, Canada. Naked bus still, probably moving around there and it's got a poster rolled up in the back of it, and I want that. Damn I saw leaders to it. I want that poster back and I won't settle for anything else. Did you ever meet Blackstone

and over the hill. Yes, no! No from from that year round, my family always received four passes to the casino theater. Every time he came back into town, that's amazing, about magicians that like 'cause when you meet a magician, they have a certain vibe. Is it because they as a magician, you have to be a truth seeker? You have to No, no! No! You don't have of the magicians. Many of the magicians disagree with If you don't get it, no, they say that people should like dollar should be honored. He is to be a member of the profession governor someone and they did it with them. They should not wanted had a minute to do with him right, that's my opinion and my personal opinion. I know many of the magician disagree with my philosophy on this. They think that to that the Packers should be included among the conjures and such, and I think that's a very bad idea, because we are honest, liners

and I want to be one of the honest liars which just so people understand the delineation. It's saying I'm going to deceive you and still do. Anyway and then say at the end of the performance. What you've seen was done by various means of trickery. Did you enjoy? The skillet was despair demonstrated, for. I hope that they they will accept that now, when is when is we come out? It comes up Friday from the movie comes out Friday. No, you say you are. It comes out of the new art yeah, oh great, and then will it be available of Odeon everything it opens Friday in New York in LA and then rolls out across the country. After that, and then it will be available on Itunes, yeah, I'm if you directed the movie yeah what piece of your name over time, just and I just want to see, if it was me and Tyler Museum, were you guys did a great job- the the documentaries Fantasio. Yes- and I agree- and I

I, and I think, also a fitting tribute to as well and also kind of nice get to know you have people don't get the chance to come to one of your twenty or seven. So when we started the recording he Since I I thought we were hanging out. Oh yeah. Any of this did I supposed to this. Oh my good, I hope so it's a pleasure to meet you and, and hopefully I'll get to your hundred birthday. Can I come here and for the call? Yes, yes, yeah, okay, you're welcome here and on the top Yes, can I have a recommendation of? I want to join the MAGIC castle, gonna be like with James Randi said I could be a member of the magic yeah. Well, I don't have that influence. I don't want to I'll give you a good or if they call me up, I was in a gonna murder anyone. I know that he will kill anybody right away this fantastic yeah. Thank you. So much of the class magic castle of excellence, yeah you're totally right. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. This is rad the

thank you so much that the deck of cards your deck rule, that's especially, I produced deck of cards by the producers of the film it all kinds of secrets that, after we're off the microphone and we'll discuss a couple of the small features that are, it can be found on there I'll. Let you find the rest yourself alright. Well, we better go then enjoy burrito everyone, the end now leaving notice dot com enjoy your burrito.